Jitender Gupta
Firing blanks BJP leaders coming out of Rashtra pati Bhavan after submitting a memorandum on the price rise issue to the President on July 29
politics: bjp
Oranges For Lemons
No leadership, no gameplan and hurtling from crisis to crisis, the BJP is in a right royal soup
politics: bjp
The Reddys purge was on, then came Sushma Swaraj’s offensive
Sugata Srinivasaraju

Has the party of the gods lost the plot completely? For not a single creative political idea now emerges from the BJP. Following the Gujarat MoS for home Amit Shah’s arrest in Ahmedabad, it’s clear that, beset with crisis after crisis, the country’s main opposition party is trapped into defending the indefensible. If during the last session of Parliament the BJP became a butt of jokes as it waited in vain to form a government in Jharkhand with a man they once loved to revile, now the sheen has come off the showpiece Narendra Modi government in Gujarat. And this time, there is no communal Hindu-Muslim faultline to be exploited in the cases of extortion and murder involving a minister so close to Modi. In fact, there are fears that in public perception the whole anti-terror operations of the state government will now be painted as a cover for an extortion racket.

For the party, it’s been an unhappy season of scandal. Before being forced by circumstances to defend Amit Shah for murder and extortion, the BJP (which once claimed to be “a party with a difference”) had devoted great energy to defending the notorious Reddy brothers of Bellary who are apparently holding the Karnataka government to ransom. Occasionally in this riveting script of murder, extortion, blackmail and unbridled corruption, there is a comedy break when party president Nitin Gadkari makes another gaffe. And it’s not just his words which evoke mirth, giggles and clarifications, it is also his deportment. Partymen grumble about being made to attend meetings way beyond their bed-time and Gadkari’s casual use of foul language. (Leaders reveal that he “uses such expressions even in front of women”.) 

Meanwhile, the man who had coined the phrase “party with a difference”, and who was supposed to have retired many years ago according to the RSS script, settled comfortably into a refurbished room in Parliament last week. Lal Krishna Advani has got the room that had been allotted to Atal Behari Vajpayee as NDA chairman redone to his taste. The former PM’s name-plate is still on the door but as working chairman Advani now uses the room. His name-plate has been placed below Vajpayee’s. Among other changes, Advani has added a revolving book case to the room. The more things are supposed to have changed in the BJP, the more they remain the same.

In all fairness, though, last week the BJP did put up an energetic front on the price-rise issue. It stalled Parliament insisting on an adjournment motion—which entails voting—and claimed to have collected nearly 10 crore signatures opposing the government’s handling of prices. Since that figure implies that every 10th Indian supported the BJP campaign, the claim seemed rather tall. As a senior party leader noted sarcastically, “We believe in overstating everything in case you don’t understand the point. So we’ll hype up figures to such an extent that nobody will believe us. It is only then that we believe we have made our point.”

Within the party, there are those who criticise the decision to defend Amit Shah. Sources say Narendra Modi insisted that the national leadership defend Amit Shah and his Gujarat regime to the hilt. With a power vacuum in Delhi and with Advani also beholden to Modi and Shah (who managed his Gandhinagar election), the Gujarat CM is certainly in a position to wield great influence. Which is perhaps why leader of the Opposition in the Rajya Sabha Arun Jaitley keeps harping on the misuse of the CBI and why the issue would certainly be taken up by the BJP. (Yet the party knows that opposition unity could break over such an issue and has not given the CBI debate any priority in Parliament.)

Meanwhile, a senior leader told Outlook: “Certainly Modi has great influence over Advani and also Jaitley. But I believe the Amit Shah case should be fought legally. That issue should not be combined with our political articulation as it is a double-edged sword. If the charges against Shah are finally dismissed, we can score political points. But what if the case stands legal scrutiny? Then the future of Modi as our mascot is in peril.”


The ‘Same Difference’ Party

Gujarat Cornered by the state police and then by the CBI, but party clamorously defends Narendra Modi's Man Friday, Amit Shah, in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter killing. Charges of involvement with the marble lobby and extortion emerge.   Karnataka Sushma Swaraj bends backward to calm the rebellion of her proteges, the Reddy brothers, against B.S. Yediyurappa. But the Lok Ayukta quit threat turns nation's attention on the corruption under BJP's watch.

Jharkhand With massive mining interests at stake, Rajnath Singh and Ananth Kumar plump for pact with Shibhu Soren. The deal comes unstuck with the JMM bossman dismissing the idea of chief ministership by rotation.   Rajasthan Ram Jethmalani's nomination to the Rajya Sabha overlooking Vasundhararaje's candidate, and Tarun Vijay's nomination in Uttarakhand stirs up murmurs of loyalists being ignored for new entrants and upstarts.

Bihar Trouble with a key NDA ally, Janata Dal (U), in election year. Nitish Kumar opposes advertisements showing him with Narendra Modi, wants no truck with him. His position will harden after Amit Shah's arrest.   Hindu Terror With CBI zeroing in on senior Sangh parivar functionaries for their role in a series of bomb blasts, "Hindu terror" comes back to bite the hand it feeds. BJP doesn't want to defend the RSS but it is part of the parivar.

Ghost Of Jinnah Sacked summarily for his book on Mohammed Ali Jinnah, Jaswant Singh makes a comeback as L.K. Advani cocks a snook at the Sangh. Uma Bharati's return is held up by MP CM Shivraj Chauhan.   Spectre Of Advani They had ostensibly made way for the younger Nitin Gadkari, but Advani and his acolytes—the famed "Delhi 4"—continue to call the shots, be it in naming RS candidates, defending Amit Shah, stitching up JMM alliance, or wooing back the Lok Ayukta.


As it is, on the national stage Modi is proving to be more a liability than an asset. The manner in which he managed to run foul of Bihar CM Nitish Kumar, the BJP’s most important ally right now, was typical of the man. The overreach by Modi in the Patna media when he arrived there for a party conclave in mid-June almost ended the decade-long political alliance. Sources reveal though that with just a few months to go to the Bihar polls, Nitish has been mollified.

 
 
“But what if the case against Amit Shah stands legal scrutiny? Then Modi’s future as our mascot is in peril.”
 
 
Indeed, at the heart of all the BJP’s troubles is a larger existential crisis. All its ideological cornerstones are now failing to yield further political dividends. Plus there is the terrible pincer movement of the police agencies simultaneously closing in on some RSS members for being involved in Hindu terror and on people close to Modi—who was till the 2009 general elections touted as the great hope of the party. Partymen would like to believe that there will be a “great backlash by Hindus” but it’s just not been happening.

In fact, there are many who argue in private that the RSS is the greatest burden on the BJP. “The Sangh just does not attract quality any longer. It just gets fools,” says an insider. Yet, RSS members routinely get inducted into the bjp as spokespersons, get Rajya Sabha seats and are embedded across the organisation. With no Hindu issues igniting a wave, the question to ask is: has the BJP’s talent pool become so limited that the party is bound to remain in crisis?

The political desperation is already visible in the morally bankrupt choices the party now makes—eager to form a government in Jharkhand at any cost (even if it meant tying up with the JMM’s Shibu Soren); defence of the Reddy brothers for the pelf and clout they carry. Add this to poor political management in critical states like Jharkhand and a genuine leadership crisis nationally, the bjp comes across as a party resorting to bluff and bluster, a party that no longer attracts the young, where leaders linger on in the general atmosphere of decay, and increasingly, a party that defends the indefensible.

With soaring prices, a disastrous Indo-Pakistan dialogue, burning issues like Kashmir and Maoist terror, the upa government should have been on the mat. But as things stand, and no hope on the horizon of sorting out its own mess, the BJP can only hope that things get worse for the upa and the tina factor starts working in their favour.

politics: bjp
The Reddys purge was on, then came Sushma Swaraj’s offensive
Sugata Srinivasaraju
Translate into:
 
Daily MailPublished
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Jul 31, 2010 02:10 PM
1
"Has the party of the gods lost the plot completely? For not a single creative political idea now emerges from the BJP. "
Saba Naqvi forgot to mention 'party of the Hindu gods'. And look at the congress party. What an idea, Sirjee! In fact, the party abounds in ideas, the latest being the commonwealth scam. Its brilliant ideas do credit for Roman gods. Sharm-el-sheik, FMs meeting, Bhopal gas tragedy, rising food prices, rotting food grains, sweet swiss bank booty, all are ideas only congress is capable of generating, which Saba Naqvi, unfortunately, cannot write about.
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Jul 31, 2010 02:30 PM
2
"BJP has understood that it has lost the touch to make a mark on '5 Day Version of the Game'. hence it has settled for the samaller format i.e. 20-20 to win Petty Laurels."
Rajneesh Batra
New Delhi, India
Jul 31, 2010 03:12 PM
3
Saba, don't you think that expanding your horizons as a 'journalist' will be good for you. Harping on the BJP's imminent demise, week after week after week, has become a script more stale than yesteryear's news.
ankush poddar
Kolkata, India
Jul 31, 2010 05:20 PM
4
"beset with crisis after crisis, the country’s main opposition party is trapped into defending the indefensible"

Crisis after crisis ?? Like :

1 Kashmir burning

2.Back breaking Price rise

3.Being kicked and humiliated time and again by Pakies .

4.Hunger in parts of the Country and food grains rottening in open Mandies while the Food Corporation Godowns are storing Wines and Liquors.

5 Maoists killing at will and ruling one third of the Country .

6.Sky rocketing corruption

Latest being stealing of funds allotted for Common Wealth Games by the mighty Congress leaders .Now we know why Delhiites were being burdene dwith high taxes .

Are not the crisis's for the Country,Saba Naqvi and OUTLOOK but political arrest of some minister is a crisis worth gloating about .

Seems Outlook has been taken over by Milli Gazette management.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Jul 31, 2010 07:45 PM
5
Like Newton sitting beneath the apple tree, the BJP could also wait for someone to drop the ball in 2014.
ashok lal
mumbai, India
Jul 31, 2010 09:52 PM
6
Thec attack on Reddy brothers is actually,Sonia organised attack on Sushma Swaraj.The Reddy brothers are Sushma's protege and the hate filled Sonia is using Governor Bharadwaj and the state Congress to exaggerate the so called illegal minining by Reddy brothers.If an election is held today Congress will be wiped out for their negative politics.
S.S.Nagaraj
Bangalore, India
Jul 31, 2010 10:27 PM
7
I have never seen a more biased article.

Kashmir is burning.
Prices are sky rocketing
Naxalites problem
Corruption in CWG
Rebellion in AP
Misuse of CBI
Telecom scandal
Minister fighting against each other

Is outlook blind to all this. One can say one thing for the Congress. Somehow they manage to get the press on their side.This means half truths & mis information keeps coming.

God help India from such biased journalists & one sided
rubiish called as objective press reporting.
G Vishwanathan
Chennai, India
Jul 31, 2010 11:32 PM
8
Hi Saba,
I have been reading your articals for years and have not found any sound journalism idea for betterment of country as a whole except BJP, RSS and Narendra Modi bashing. Are you planning to contest election on congress ticket next couple years and thus pleasing Sonia and her team with your articals.

Have you ever written an artical bashing congress and allies even when that party was seen as collapsing around year 2000. Please stop behaving like a biased political agent and be a neutral journalist for general good of we common people, otherwise people will stop reading you, most of them might have already done.
ALOK
Mumbai, India
Aug 01, 2010 12:36 AM
9
A good summary of the present sorry state of the BJP. They can find no issue that could rally their erstwhile crowds. The inflation issue is a god-send for them, but they have no remedies to offer. Modi is trying to make the CBI an issue, but it has no resonance outside his fiefdom.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 01, 2010 01:12 AM
10
So many are castigating poor Saba for her constant harping on the imminent demise of the hated "Hindu" BJP.
But they must understand that being a member of the so-called Hindu-bashing 'secular' media and a committed Kaangress sycophant, she just can't help herself- like someone addicted to drugs, it's not easy (in many cases, impossible) to break their bad habit.
So grin and bear it. Hopefully, one day she'll regale us with cracking tales from the "other" side. I'm not holding my breath.
Bodh
Springfield, United States
Aug 01, 2010 04:16 AM
11
Saba's conclusion: BJP must really be a party of the Gods since they still exist after so many crises.

Her real question is: could Congress have survived so many crises? With only one god?
Ronnie
Gent, Belgium
Aug 01, 2010 09:40 AM
12
>What an idea, Sirjee! In fact, the party abounds in ideas, the latest being the commonwealth scam. Its brilliant ideas do credit for Roman gods. Sharm-el-sheik, FMs meeting, Bhopal gas tragedy, rising food prices, rotting food grains, sweet swiss bank booty

What an idea indeed!
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
Aug 01, 2010 09:44 AM
13
The price rise cannot be discussed in Parliament because it's not govenment's legal or constutional duty to control prices!

'What an idea' indeed!
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
Aug 01, 2010 09:52 AM
14
Squandering 35000crore - as high as 70000 some say - most of it in lefted handed deals, is of course legal & constitutional duty of the government.

Never had it so good.'What an idea, Sirjee!'
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
Aug 01, 2010 10:00 AM
15
Bloody Indians are eating too much. Reason prices shoots in double digit.

But then don't worry. Seen another astrologer & godamn prices, he said, will be down next December, Sirjee.
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
Aug 01, 2010 10:53 AM
16
BJP at last has hit the right idea. Pin them on prices. Amit Shah is a lost case anyway. We tend to give less credit to rolly-polly Gadkari than he deserves. Carry on ,Sirjee.
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
Aug 01, 2010 11:11 AM
17
Mr. Manish Banerjee Sirjee,

This is not all. The brilliant Sheila Dixit, a chief minister extraordinaire, full of Saba Naqvi kind of ideas, has NOT ONLY squandered 35000 crores in four years on the so called commonwealth games, she has dipped her greedy hands into 784 crores sanctioned by the central government exclusively for the upliftment of dalits, SCs and STs. There is, besides, no trace of the funds. So much about caring for the poor and downtrodden!
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Aug 01, 2010 11:55 AM
18
For Saba Naqvi, her boss Vinod Mehta and all the other secular high priests of the congress media, Advani continues to be a thorn in their flesh.

It doesn't matter that the congress party is cowering in Gujarat under the blistering taunts of Modi and the BJP. It also doesn't matter that in Delhi, the Manmohan Singh government is finding it difficult to move its atrophied limbs, but OUTLOOK wants people to believe that it is the BJP that is running scared.

For over three months, Kashmir is on the boil. Cries of azaadi and "Indian dogs, get out" are heard loudly even in Delhi, but Sonia Gandhi, the empress who comes up with a brilliant idea every day, is hiding behind closed doors of 10 Janpath. The yuvaraj is nowhere to be seen and even less heard. Sonia Gandhi seems to believe that NOT thinking about Kashmir and NOT talking about azaadi itself is a brilliant idea and Saba is in full agreement with the empress, as her majesty's humble scribe.
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Aug 01, 2010 12:14 PM
19
" Partymen would like to believe that there will be a “great backlash by Hindus” but it’s just not been happening."

Sure the Hindu backlash will never 'just happen' ? Any strategy Secus have to nip it bud now or in near future ? Or just depending on Hindus only not become radicalized ?

The Seculars and media Moguls believe so .Well they may be absolutely mistaken .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 01, 2010 12:36 PM
20
Shenoy,

>> the congress party is cowering in Gujarat under the blistering taunts of Modi and the BJP.

You are dreaming. Modi is making a fool of himself trying to smear the CBI. He is trying to rouse the passions of the crowds as a last desperate measure. Other BJP voices are hardly audible.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 01, 2010 03:18 PM
21
>Has the party of the gods lost the plot completely?

Looks more likely they've regained the plot. The smarties of Congress party thought that they would isolate the BJP from the rest of opposition once the BJP makes Amit Shah an issue in parliament. Clever of BJP that they out-smarted Congress spinners & at least in Parliament didn't touch upon Amit Shah. Unless of course they wilt under pressure from Modi & offer an opportunity to fringe parties an excuse to break ranks.

Good. BJP after all may have a future if it leaves God alone in heaven where he belongs. Encounters or Bellary brothers are not strangers to Congress party either.
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
Aug 01, 2010 05:12 PM
22
"Modi is making a fool of himself trying to smear the CBI. He is trying to rouse the passions of the crowds as a last desperate measure."

Anwaar,

Why then is the Gujarat congress running with its tail between its legs?
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Aug 01, 2010 05:19 PM
23
By making deals with Anderson, the congress party cheated the 23000 dead and about 5,00,000 sick of the Bhopal gas tragedy. Now in the last four years, the congress party has cheated the whole country of 35,780 crores and still counting. Sheila Dixit is looking to which fund to rob. Even then the Common Stealth Games will be the biggest shame of India.
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Aug 01, 2010 05:31 PM
24
Saba Can u ever write on something else i Understand Aaapki rozi roti shayad Journalism se hi chaltee hai But then u could always try your luck on islamic websites like "Islamic Awakening" "Maktab Al-Jihad " "Islamic Hackers" You may get a better response plus loads of money & yes patronage of Islamic terrorists would b an added advantage.
Vijayant Sharma
Nagpur, India
Aug 01, 2010 07:47 PM
25
>> BJP at last has hit the right idea. Pin them on prices.

But the problem though, is that no one believes that BJP can be more concered about the poor/downdrodden/dalits etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Aug 01, 2010 08:54 PM
26
>> I have never seen a more biased article ... One can say one thing for the Congress. Somehow they manage to get the press on their side.

The media is generally on the side of the law/constitution. If that looks being against the party you support, that is your problem. We have seen the reaction of the BJP in Amit Shahs cases and many cases before. Instead of simply asking that law should take its course, it tries all other tactics like rousing passions etc, questioning the neutrality of law enforcement etc. The problem is, even the Supreme Court talks against their leaders. So they can’t take such tactics very far.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Aug 01, 2010 11:21 PM
27
India's foreign policy has become a joke, we have proved to be gutless and shameless in tackling terrorism / corruption, there are goons and big time crooks in UPA government that decide our fate, prices have gone so over the roof that most people can not survive, the entire social fabric of india is collapsing as people can not cope with stress and become selfish just to survive. Politically India is a complete disaster both internally and externally. but what does Outlook do ? Blame the opposition party BJP for it. Does Outlook know that there is a party called Congress (I)? The Congress (Italy) is using the Congress Bureau of Investigation (CBI) to defame BJP as much as they can and the english media keeps waving it's tail for some bones from their congi masters. No wonder Vinod Mehta calls his dog an editor. If not in his professional life, atleast he shows some honesty in his personal life. Not all journalists and editors are " bikau" so instead of blaming others and calling them dogs, he should see himself in the mirror and do something about it. If the BJP comes back to power and Rahul Baba is nomore, i am sure outlook will change tunes in no time. Remember how they were all bashing congress in Atal Bihari Vajpayee's second term because they thought Congress is now dead. They are making the same mistake with the BJP now. A party with eight state governments is not going to disappear anytime soon. So, be honest to your reporting skills and not be biased and shamelessly one sided. What ever happens to the BJP, you will lose your credibility and readership. Remember CNN and Fox and all that 911 nonsense ? Nobody takes them seriously anymore.
Vipul Jani
toronto, Canada
Aug 02, 2010 12:25 AM
28
>> But the problem though, is that no one believes that BJP can be more concered about the poor/downdrodden/dalits etc.

What rubbish!

On what basis do you claim to speak for everyone?

And as expected, your caste blinkers come on about an issue on price rise. You probably believe that a poor Baniya child can stay hungry longer than a Dalit child, who needs to be fed first.
Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
Aug 02, 2010 01:57 AM
29
Shenoy,

>> Why then is the Gujarat congress running with its tail between its legs?

You are dreaming.

http://timesofindia....icleshow/6242544.cms
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 02, 2010 04:01 AM
30
We are on the way to emergency like 1975. Do you remember years 1974/75,at that time prices was sky rocketing ,rampant inflation and unemployment , congress lost court battles & elections, rampant corruption ,public strong support of oppositions agitations , misuse of CBI (Nagarwal a case etc. ) etc.
See present situation, prices are rising, Internal security is threatening by naxleites and terrorist and rampant corruptions, misuse of power by govt. thru CBI, larger foreign policy failure etc.
At that time and present time govt. unable to resolved the situations ,they declare emergency at that time at present .Only differences are congress making sure that entire opposition leaders had some kind of legal cases thru congress buro of investigation (CBI)., some they will bargain some they will put jail by hook or crook . Over six ministers and many congress decision makers is 1975 emergency hero.
They had bough media. Well this types of articles will wrote to support there plan. You will see so many articles and other action in coming days. In future you will can not oppose them, they will use censorship on us.
Otherwise any common man knows that today in India fastest developing states are only BJP OR NDA rule states, even minorities are better condition than those ruled by other parties.
Looked they have done to Andhra Pradesh? Maharashtra is losing fastest position as developing states. In one year of power in Rajasthan how they are messing development projects start by previous govt. . What about latest corruptions of Delhi govt. for CWG.
At the end truth will win, mean time wait and watch.
b b patel
new york, United States
Aug 02, 2010 04:16 AM
31
>> You probably believe that a poor Baniya child can stay hungry longer than a Dalit child, who needs to be fed first.

No one ever said that. But it is also true that if most dalits are in the bottom of the ladder in all human development indices, due to the social/education conditions and standards (of past and current), that situation/context needs a special attention.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Aug 02, 2010 06:20 AM
32
>> No one ever said that.

You did. You brought caste into a discussion that is not relevant to the topic.

>> But it is also true

But this discussion is about price rise, that impacts all poor. Talking about caste, shows your own diseased mentality.
Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
Aug 02, 2010 10:36 AM
33
"You are dreaming.

http://timesofindia....icleshow/6242544.cms"

Anwaar,

Your faith in Times Of India (of 'aman ki aasha' notoriety) is touching.It was hilarious to read in the said report a remark by Siddharth Patel. He 'claimed that Mahatma Gandhi and Sardar Patel were against extortionists..'. Why then all the congress leaders from Digvijay Singh, Mani Shankar Aiyer, Singhvi, Manish Tiwari etc. are trying to 'protect the fair name' of Sohrabuddin?
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Aug 02, 2010 12:40 PM
34
Shenoy,

>> Why then all the congress leaders from Digvijay Singh, Mani Shankar Aiyer, Singhvi, Manish Tiwari etc. are trying to 'protect the fair name' of Sohrabuddin?

This is a lie which some BJP spokesmen too have been mouthing. No Congress leader has ever tried to "protect the fair name" of Sohrabuddin. Everyone knows he was a criminal. The issue is fake encounter murders of Sohrabuddin, his wife and Tulsi Prajapati by police officers.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 02, 2010 03:10 PM
35
"No Congress leader has ever tried to "protect the fair name" of Sohrabuddin."
Anwaar, you have lost too much of sleep. Today, after Afzal Guru, Sohrabuddin is the biggest hero for the congressmen. Don't you remember the "maut ka saudagar" war cry from Sonia Gandhi and Javed Akhtar? Sohrabuddin is the next vote catching talisman for this party and Digvijay Singh has never stopped salivating ever since the congress bureau of instigation brought his name to the centre stage.
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Aug 02, 2010 04:27 PM
36
Saba Naqvi also will not write about how is it that the CBI, instead of doing its job quietly is leaking small tidbits everyday to keep the ruling party of fake secularism in good humour and to keep the public attention from the crushing prices of food.I hope the aam aadmi understands this game.
And I hope Saba understands that the worst sufferer from the rising food prices is the poorest class.If the aam aadmi could afford two meals a day three years back then he can afford only one and a half meal today for he gets only 100 rupees for his day's labor today as he got six years back.
K.C.Sharma
Delhi, India
Aug 03, 2010 01:11 AM
37
Shenoy,

>> Today, after Afzal Guru, Sohrabuddin is the biggest hero for the congressmen.

Typical saffron distortion! Afzal may have marginal support in some fringe elements in Kashmir, but his death sentence still stands. And Sohrabuddin is not a hero to anyone. It is his non-judicial execution that is at issue. As Praful Bidwai said, "Civilised societies put criminals on trial, they don't summarily kill them." Both Afzal and Sohrabuddin are being exploited by the BJP for political gain.

>> remember the "maut ka saudagar" war cry from Sonia Gandhi and Javed Akhtar?

It has turned out to be true!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 03, 2010 08:20 AM
38
No party can survive, not to speak of prospering, solely on the basis of spreading hatred towards other communities. The Sangh Parivar had no role in freedom struggle. Its political offspring whether you call it BJS or BJP, has no blueprint for making India a modern nation.
It is making a noise over price rise while its main support base consists of all those who benefit by price rise and profiteering.
As regards Gujarat, BJP will go on sinking in the marsh because it has no alternative but to tell one lie after another to deceive people.
Girish Mishra
New Delhi, India
Aug 03, 2010 10:49 AM
39
Anwaar,
'As Praful Bidwai said, "Civilised societies put criminals on trial, they don't summarily kill them." According to Arundhati Roy, ours is one of the most uncivilised societies. Therefore, summary execution of dreaded criminals/gun runners like Sohrabuddin may just be what the doctor ordered. Praful Bidwai must be one hell of a civilised, happy, satisfied man, having Afzal Guru put on trial. He will be doubly happy and satisfied when Ajmal Qasab too is similarly put on trial. needless to mention, what satisfies Praful Bidwai, will satisfy all the mullahs-resident or non-resident.

As for the elcetions, you may not like to be reminded of LJP's Osama-look-alike acompanying Ram Vilas Paswan in all public meetings to garner Muslim votes. News is that Digvijay Singh visited Azamgarh looking for a look alike of Sohrabuddin who can then be used as a congress mascot to defeat the BJP-JDU alliance in the NOv 2010 elections in Bihar.Check it out with your "sources" embedded inside that party.
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Aug 03, 2010 10:51 AM
40
People know Outlook is a loyal soldier of the Congress party, but even your regular readers must have gotten totally bored with Saba Naqvi going on and on like a stuck record about the BJP. You guys should at least learn about bringing some fresh material to keep the propaganda going. This is what happens when you employ low-IQ jhollawallahs; they run out of ideas pretty quickly.
Ankan Kumar
Columbus, USA
Aug 03, 2010 11:00 AM
41
Zhola chhap Praful Bidwai has opposed fiercely Indian Nukes.He is darling of Hate India Brigade.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 03, 2010 11:05 AM
42
Girish Sharma,

"The Sangh Parivar had no role in freedom struggle"....
According to the congress party's own historians, even Subhash Chandra Bose, Bhagat Singh, Tilak, Rajaji, Madan Mohan Malaviya, Shyama Prasad Mukherjee etc had no role or only a marginal role in the "freedom struggle". It doesn't matter that the sangh parivar as it is known now was never in existence during those days. It was created by people who were all former congressmen who had participated in the freedom struggle at some time or other.

Similarly the communists too had no role to play or they played a totally negative role supporting the British, who were fighting the world warII alongside the Russians. The majority of Indian Muslims too had no role to play and most of them played a negative role, worse than the Reds, by supporting the demand for the creation of Pakistan.
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Aug 03, 2010 11:20 AM
43
Shenoy,

>> According to Arundhati Roy, ours is one of the most uncivilised societies. Therefore, summary execution of dreaded criminals/gun runners like Sohrabuddin may just be what the doctor ordered.

Arundhati Roy never said that. You will go to any length, including lying, to defend a blatantly criminal act perpetrated by your sanghi cohorts.

>> Praful Bidwai......having Afzal Guru put on trial..... Qasab too is similarly put on trial...

It is okay to disagree with Bidwai's article, but why this incohereht rambling?

>> News is that Digvijay Singh visited Azamgarh looking for a look alike of Sohrabuddin....

Seems you sanghis are in a panic. That explains this silly prattle. Get a hold of yourself!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 03, 2010 11:58 AM
44
"Seems you sanghis are in a panic. That explains this silly prattle. Get a hold of yourself!"

Anwaar, OK, we sanghis are in a terrible panic, which leads us to "prattle" (whatever the hell that means), but, tell me, why is the congress bureau of instigation (CBI) in panic? Having earlier given worldwide publicity to its demand that the Sohrabuddin case be shifted outside Gujarat, now they claim that they have never asked for the shift. KTS Tulsi and the CBI too, like you, Anwaar, are losing sleep over this long dead Sohrabuddin! Long durations of sleep deprivation leads people to do terrible contra-actions, you know.
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Aug 03, 2010 12:21 PM
45
Shenoy,

>> Having earlier given worldwide publicity to its demand that the Sohrabuddin case be shifted outside Gujarat, now they claim that they have never asked for the shift.

No CBI official said that. The newspaper story started out with the confident, "CBI today asked the Supreme Court to shift the Sohrabuddin Sheikh fake encounter case outside Gujarat for a fair trial", but if you read on, it soon became a matter of, "sources associated with the status report said". No newspaper reporter really knows what the CBI's status report to the Supreme Court says. Mr. Tulsi says that a request for transfer has not been made, and I see no reason to disbelieve him.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 03, 2010 12:38 PM
46
the bjp needs to get coherent about its world view on things like hindutva, social& cultural aspects of indians, and its jaundiced eye towards muslims. Currently there is complete confusion in its thinking and reactions. they need to understand that firmness is one thing and confrontation quite another. they may scream from the rooftops that their heart is in the right place but thats not the perception.
Vivek Sharan
Bangalore, India
Aug 03, 2010 03:12 PM
47
Vivek Sharan,
You have sermonised; but yoursermons can apply to each and every party. For example, you said, "Currently there is complete confusion in its thinking and reactions." This applies to the congress more thn any party. See whatthey are doing with Pakistan and in Kashmir.
Again,"they need to understand that firmness is one thing and confrontation quite another." This is apt for the congress-NC alliance in Kashmir.

Thirdly, "they may scream from the rooftops that their heart is in the right place but thats not the perception."
This applies to the CPM inWB and Kerala.

Specifics, my dear Watson, are what are appreciated in this blog, not vague one-size-fits-all kind of comments or the "BJP is running scared" Faruqi kind of statements.
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Aug 03, 2010 07:14 PM
48
>the bjp needs to get coherent about its world view on things like hindutva, social& cultural aspects of indians

"World view' can wait. Why not have an India view? For example India is not a milch cow for polits to milk it anemic.
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
Aug 03, 2010 11:28 PM
49
We should not blame saba, suzanne arundhati roy and anwaar for being anti BJP. what else they can be. But the real problem are journalists who are actually DEALERS for leaders. Most of the hindi pro congress journalists fall in this category. and many from english media.

General perception in MP is BJP is now rivalling Digvijay singh government in corruption and mafia. I wonder why people are still electing BJP again? may be because congress is poor choice both at state and center.
narendra
Indore, India
Aug 04, 2010 05:52 AM
50
>> the bjp needs to get coherent about its world view on things like hindutva, social& cultural aspects of indians

There can be coherence only if there is a genuine pursuit of truth/justice/values etc. Else they have to fall back on emotive issues and rhetoric - even that is short lived.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Aug 05, 2010 05:26 PM
51
BJP is today a mere refelction of what it was, and that too a very sad one. unless RSS an dold warhorses like advani relinquish control, the party looks like headed tot eh grave with them. instead of acting as a watchdog to the senile UPA, the party is looking at its own sunset!
ameetbhuvan
bhubaneswar, India
Aug 05, 2010 07:12 PM
52
Yathaa Raajaa tathaa Prajaa

Like king Like citizens

That is the reason India was most peaceful during Atal Bihari Bajpeyi's rule.
narendra
Indore, India
Aug 05, 2010 09:19 PM
53
>> India was most peaceful during Atal Bihari Bajpeyi's rule.

Isn't that when the Gujarat massacre took place?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 06, 2010 06:35 AM
54
ANWAAR,

---During BJP rule the MAOIST violence had not reached such threatening stage. It is the contribution of the SIX YEARS of UPA rule.

--- BJP Govt implimented the "border fencing" in J&K which reduced PAKI JEHADI ingress into KASHMIR and reduced the violence. The border fencing could have been been implimented by any Govt from 1989 - Congress, Gowda, or the rest- when it became evident that PAKI JEHADIS are being pushed in by PAKI ARMY to spread violence.

--- Yes, GUJARAT. Even if your contention is accepted, "exceptions just go to prove the rule". India was more peaceful during BJP Govt and was on the path of rapid development. BJP was defeated in the election by "anti-Indian forces" which did not want India to develop so rapidly leaving PAKISTAN far behind(the first country in the world carved out on religious lines) which would have highlighted the "failure" of "that RELIGION" (which claims that their religion is an all encompassing way of life).
Akil
Bangalore, India
Aug 06, 2010 08:36 AM
55
Akil,

>> During BJP rule....

Your usual mendacious propaganda! You will convince only other Bajrangis.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 06, 2010 10:47 AM
56
anwaar,
Gujrat need few explanation ,
1. Propaganda people like you hide the facts like it all started with godhra train burning where 57 innocents died . many were on their way to job. In similar case people like you blame america for afghanistan war but hide the fact that attack on twin tower started it. So we need to examine who started it.
2. Gujrat had 35 years of non stop communal rioting and since that time it is all peace.
3. Gujrat was people rebellion and from videos you can see george fernandis's car being stoned who went there as emmissary of Bajpeyi.
4. Gujrat carnage was not one sided. for every 3 muslims 2 hindus died.
5. The king of gujrat was narendra modi and his influence on praja cannot be ignored.
narendra
Indore, India
Aug 06, 2010 11:12 AM
57
Let us not call Bajpeyi's rule as same as BJP's rule. Todays BJP central leadership is protecting the corrupt and mafia in states. BJP ruled states now have the worst crime records.

My basic point is the condition of any administration and peoples attitude reflects leaders value system and his actions. So be it CWG or various corruption scandals then blame should be on top leadership without doubt.
narendra
Indore, India
Aug 06, 2010 12:46 PM
58
Narendra,

>> it all started with godhra train burning.

And its exploitation by Modi.

>> Gujrat had 35 years of non stop communal rioting.

That is a lie.

>> Gujrat was people rebellion.

Hitler's Germany too.

>> for every 3 muslims 2 hindus died.

Hindus were killed by police bullets when the police at long last came out of their hiding.

>> The king of gujrat was narendra modi.

That's the problem!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 06, 2010 01:07 PM
59
'Hindus were killed by police bullets when the police at long last came out of their hiding "

Police came out of hiding in Gujarat and killed Hindus is perhaps the real problem for you gentlemen because in rest of the Country Police never came out of hiding an killed Hindus and you have never criticized that.

> The king of gujrat was narendra modi.

That's the problem!"

You have entrenched the King !

(though beyond you people to realize that).
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 06, 2010 01:26 PM
60
Ghai,

>> in rest of the Country Police never came out of hiding an killed Hindus.

If you have nothing to say, you do not have to interject such rubbish.

>> (though beyond you people to realize that).

So you think "we people" are dumb! Why do you have to post such unworthy comments?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 06, 2010 02:38 PM
61
why bother about BJP.WORRYabout your congress partyof which you and your editor is enamoured of.latest inlong line of congress misdemeauners isMARATHON CWG SCAM.any case knowing your editorial policyyou shouldhave given only heading of the article and left it to the imagination of readers toFILL IN THE BLANKS
subodhkhanna
kanpur, India
Aug 06, 2010 06:10 PM
62
>> Hindus were killed by police bullets when the police at long last came out of their hiding.

If they were under Modi's control, why didn't they just disperse?

How many Hindus did the police/army have to kill in Delhi, when they came out of their hiding?

If you don't want to answer that, since you have no reasonable answer, we shall understand.
Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
Aug 06, 2010 06:23 PM
63
Anwaar :
Dariapur - Cuil
This was not just a walled city riot between Hindus and Muslims in the chawls of Dariapur and Shahpur where violence has become almost an annual ritual. ...
cpedia.com/wiki?q=Da...Jivraj...Dariapur... - Cached

In Gujrat riots 690 muslims and 300 hindus were killed. If you add 187 killed in akshardham, another 300 in various bomb blasts in surat, vadodra, you can see propaganda value of your statement. In fact gujarat suffered from riots continuously for 35 years because of weak congress government.

Still you glossed over the fact Godhra was the reason. You will see it is never hindus who attack first. In orissa it was swami laxmanand was killed by missionaries and initial NDTV live reports showed more hindu villages were burnt. later NDTV and Outlook started harping on massacre by hindu hardliners.

Some times I get a feeling secular media treat hindus as equal to deer or Fish and Muslims and Christians as Tigers. A deer killed by Tiger is natural but a tiger killed is big event.

Anwaar I am disappointed by you. I earlier thought you to be a reasonable person but you seem to be a sponsored fellow glossing over facts and sticking to a single side and not judicial atall.
narendra
Indore, India
Aug 06, 2010 06:48 PM
64
Narendra,

"Anwaar I am disappointed by you. I earlier thought you to be a reasonable person but you seem to be a sponsored fellow glossing over facts and sticking to a single side and not judicial at all."

Take heart. Other posters here know Anwaar as a crypto-jihadi, a mullah in disguise and an overtly avid supporter/follower/worshipper of Mata Sonia. In his earlier avatar in OUTLOOK blogs, he was known as Faruqi. In Dallas, US, he is under watch for his CAIR activities.
bvshenoy
Bangalore, India
Aug 06, 2010 09:52 PM
65
>> it all started with godhra train burning.

No. The people who burnt train at Godhra will be able cite incidents before that which made them do it. The 'starting point' if any is the decision of a person to commit murder, to turn violent etc - whether it is incident before godhra or godhra or post-godhra. There is no starting point outside of oneself. There is no excuse.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Aug 07, 2010 01:21 AM
66
No hope on the horizon of sorting out its own mess, the BJP can only hope that things get worse for the upa and the tina factor starts working in their favour.

The aforesaid statement is a wishful thinking or, precisely, the BJP is on a wing and a prayer. In the US there is a lemon law-cars that are not up to the standards are classified as lemons. Likewise, the BJP has transformed from orange to a lemon.

I have responded to so many blogs pertaining to the BJP that it has no future as a political party unless it becomes a mainstream party eschewing its ultra Hindu ideologies and embracing secularism.

Nitin Gadkari, the BJP president, is a novice and Sushma Swaraj, the party leader, walks like a sedated python and spouting gibberish. What collection of no hopers!
Scaria Varghese
Melbourne, Australia
Aug 07, 2010 02:35 AM
67
Narendra,

>> walled city riot between Hindus and Muslims in the chawls of Dariapur and Shahpur where violence has become almost an annual ritual.

The bulk of them were just stone throwing incidents that did not amount to anything, but are now being used by sanghi propagandists like yourself to defend the Modi massacre of 2002.

>> never hindus who attack first.

False. Most of the riots are started by Bajrangis. The Godhra train fire was called accidental by the Banerjee Commission, and it was described by witnesses on Tehelka tapes as being a spur of the moment action, but Modi went on to describe it as planned terrorist action, a Pakistani conspiracy! Many observers have said that the Gujarat massacre can only be the result of weeks or months of planning and preparation.

All this has already been discussed umpteen times in this forum, so why are you bringing it up now?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 07, 2010 02:42 AM
68
Shenoy,

>> Other posters here know Anwaar as a crypto-jihadi, a mullah in disguise.

Actually it is you who is known as a liar and a sanghi hate pracharak, who unashamedly supports blatant police criminals and their political purveyors.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 07, 2010 04:26 AM
69
Elements within the RSS itself have alleged that RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat and Indresh Kumar were receiving money from the ISI [Inter-Services Intelligence].

‘BJP and RSS must come clean'
http://www.frontline...0100813271601500.htm
kishoredasmunshi
Kolkatta, India
Aug 07, 2010 04:30 AM
70
First of all, bomb-making and such other acts are not a new thing for these organisations. For example, in 1947, Mr L.K. Advani, then an RSS swayamsewak and not a Bharatiya Janata Party leader, ran away from Karachi because in his house bombs were being made to kill Mr Jinnah. Many of his associates were arrested and punished.

What was Madanlal Pahwa doing when he threw a bomb at Mahatma Gandhi? Was he not inspired by the RSS? After that, Nathuram Godse fired at Mahatma Gandhi and killed him.

It is not only bombs. Terrorism can take many forms. What happened in Gujarat in 2002? Is it not terrorism? See Kandhamal. Are they not terrorising Muslims and Christians?

M.S. Golwalkar, the RSS' most important ideologue, in his book We or Our Nationhood Defined says the minorities in this country should be treated as Hitler treated Jews in Germany.

I would say that their attitude towards social life is the same as that of the Taliban – those who are not Hindus have to be punished. Either you convert to Hinduism or you will be punished.

Golwalkar wrote We or Our Nationhood Defined and Bunch of Thoughts. In Bunch of Thoughts, he clearly identifies three enemies – Muslims, Christians, and Communists. If you have defined enemies, it is assumed that you have to fight and kill them. He also wrote that sacrificing your life is not heroism but success is. He wrote about “parakramavada” (aggressive bravery). You have to be aggressive and win to become heroic.

When I was an RSS member as a child, I was very averse to bloodshed. They used to teach us how to kill pigeons as if we should start with pigeons, and then graduate later to killing bigger mortals.

Culture of hate

http://www.frontline...0100813271602000.htm
kishoredasmunshi
Kolkatta, India
Aug 07, 2010 10:31 AM
71
"Your usual mendacious propaganda! You will convince only other Bajrangis"

ANWAAR

When BJP lost power in 2004 and CONGRESS came to power, MAOIST violence had not reached such menacing propotions. Violence in KASHMIR was down after the "border fencing" proved to be effective in keeping out most PAKI JEHADIS. So present Maoist and KASHMIR violence is the result of SIX YEARS of CONGRESS RULE. In addition, CONGRESS PARTY has made a mess of India in the last SIX YEARS- inflation at 11%, Food inflation at 17%, the CWG corruption scandle making India the BUTT OF REDECULE all over the world etc etc are all for everyone to see.

But MULLAH ANWAAR is blinded by hatred- he hates to see India progress rapidly leaving behind ISLAMIC PAKISTAN far behind because it will add on to the list of failure of ISLAM as an ideology. ANWAAR and people like him will gladly cut off their "nose and righthand" to drag india back to the level of PAKISTAN and they achieve it by "tactical vote bank politics".
Akil
Bangalore, India
Aug 07, 2010 11:08 AM
72
Anwaar,

It is you who interjected gujarat when i gave example of Bajpeyi. You can see I criticize BJP for corruption so you cannot accuse me of supporting single side. While from your writing you come out as a person who is paid to take a side.

First you said it is lie that gujarat had regular riots for 35 years and now you are trivializing it by saying they were just stray stone throwing incident. There was curfew in those areas because congress allowed mafia to create problem and not arresting trouble makers.

No body cares for conspiracy theory of yours. At 6.30 am 2000 strong mob congregates at railway signal is not conspiracy but next day after train burning there was rioting from hindu side was conspiracy? Secular media may think they can change public opinion but subsequent elections have shown people of gujrat dont agree. I am sure no one cares for modi but people dont like congress and communists siding with lies.

While bannerjee commission was appointed by lalu illegally nanavati commission had said godhra was preplanned. Bannerjee relied exclusively on Railway people prone to manipulation by lalu ministry. Ex congress CM amarsingh choudhary gave an affidavit that godhra was a conspiracy.

I am not supporting gujrat massacre but if there was no godhra there would not have been gujarat and to pin the blame on bajpeyi looks like propaganda and so called secular media may shout from roof tops but average Indian will become more anti congress/communist with these lies.

Many from RSS now a days are hand in glove with corrupt BJP leaders as the rumours suggest. So I am not sanghie by your definition but I am sure you receive money from pakistan.
narendra
Indore, India
Aug 07, 2010 11:20 AM
73
SCARIA VARGHESE,

If you are going to form opinion by reading magazines like outlook then you will be wrong. BJP is now main line political party and is equally corrupt and will do any thing for money similar to other main line parties like congress, mulayam, mayawati. All this mainline parties have only one agenda that is money.

But the Indian middle class is disgusted with propaganda in media about hinduism and thats why they vote BJP. This vote is anti congress and anti secular media. You can see this happening in gujarat. If NDTV, IBN, Times now keep on blurting propaganda then at the time of voting the voter is revolted and vote against congress.

You can see this forum, except for communists/people from kolkata, Most of the average hindus do not agree with secular media and oppose naxals, missionaries and terrorists. they dont care if RSS is there or not.
narendra
Indore, India
Aug 07, 2010 11:54 AM
74
I will repeat once again

Yathaa raajaa tathaa prajaa
narendra
Indore, India
Aug 07, 2010 12:13 PM
75
Akil,

Your usual mendacious propaganda! You will convince only other Bajrangis.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 07, 2010 12:53 PM
76
Narendra,

>> There was curfew in those areas...

A curfew for two or three days every ten or fifteen years is not the same as "violence has become almost an annual ritual."

>> No body cares for conspiracy theory of yours

It is Modi's conspiracy theory, not mine.

>> next day after train burning there was rioting from hindu side was conspiracy.

I did not call it a conspiracy, but they were prepared to strike when an opportunity presented itself. Otherwise how do you have all the kerosene cans, trishuls, swords and computerized sheets giving detailed information about exact addresses of Muslim residences and businesses, ready to go on a day's notice.

>> nanavati commission had said godhra was preplanned

Nanavaty Commission is a joke, but it is not true that it had said godhra was preplanned at the time Banerjee Commission was appointed. They said it years later.

>> to pin the blame on bajpeyi.

I never did. Somebody said, "India was most peaceful during Atal Bihari Bajpeyi's rule", and I said, "Isn't that when the Gujarat massacre took place?"

>> I am sure you receive money from pakistan.

After all the crticism I make of Pakistan? You are just stupid!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 07, 2010 02:02 PM
77
"A curfew for two or three days every ten or fifteen years is not the same as "violence has become almost an annual ritual."

Curfew was imposed every year after killings and stabbings. annual rituals are not my words but independent reports.

Bannerjee commission was appointed by lalu. It solely depended on testimony of railway officials and got a technical evolution from a NGO committed to secularism, euphemism for anti BJP. Bannerjee commission was designed to malign BJP governent by Lalu and was termed illegal by high court and prevented for presenting report. It gave a preliminary report solely for benefit of Lalu in bihar election while nanavati/mehta commission had 2 years thorough work with witness being examined a procedure ignored by bannerjee.

Computerized voters list are freely available in every ward. nothing special about it. in fact the many bohra people were attacked because from their name they were taken for muslims. i dont think you need many days preparation for attacking some body with swords or kerosene.

Muslims in india have killed many more time hindus than muslims, be it godhra, akshardham, mumbai blasts, mumbai train blasts. Please tell me why media only raise gujrat. If you look at proportion of godhra vs gujarat then you will find thousand times it is raised because it suits congress. It would have been fair that concern for godhra should be 25 percent of gujarat but the proportion is 1 : 1000.

Anwar you are favoring kashmir seperatist, you are raising gujrat but suppressing godhra. I dont see any where you have opposed pakistan. You never criticize congress. what is your agenda. You are similar to people who claim 9/11 was inside job.
narendra
Indore, India
Aug 07, 2010 02:29 PM
78
Narendra,

>> what is your agenda.

I try to fight hate and extremism and to expose lies. I do not always succeed, as can be seen from your repetitive posts.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 07, 2010 04:59 PM
79
" The people who burnt train at Godhra will be able cite incidents before that which made them do it. ' Kumar

Just wanted to see how a train with passengers burns .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 07, 2010 04:59 PM
80
" The people who burnt train at Godhra will be able cite incidents before that which made them do it. ' Kumar

Just wanted to see how a train with passengers burns .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 07, 2010 06:29 PM
81
"I try to fight hate and extremism and to expose lies. I do not always succeed"

Do not take yourself too seriously. No one here does.
Maha
NJ, United States
Aug 07, 2010 11:42 PM
82
'Anwaar':

>>I try to fight hate and extremism and to expose lies. I do not always succeed

Your comments follow a completely predictable pattern
here. Day after day, month after month, year after year.

Some passionate Hindutvavadi -- or someone you perceive
to be a Hindutvavadi -- attacks -- or is perceived by
you to attack -- the status or reputation of Muslims.

And you call them Hindutvavadis, or Sanghis, and so on.

It's a kabuki dance, frankly. Why bother?

Have you ever considered that some of the posters who
you call Sanghis are themselves not serious about it?


Secondly, the world is kind of moving on. The time when
religious 'communities' held each other in mutual respect
-- agreeing to respect one another's idiotic delusions --
is coming to an end. A new, aggressive, and secularist
atheism is being rapidly popularized. As an aggressive atheist myself, I see you as just fighting an outdated
battle. Look at how CAIR representatives are shredded
to bits -- not by Christians or FOX News, but by the
irrefutable arguments and criticism of Hitchens and
other atheists. 'Bigotry' -- as in Christians who
oppose the Cordoba Initiative -- will matter less
and less, as the multicultural idea takes root there.

What will matter in the future is which of these two
camps you place yourself in: the one that sees no
evidence for a supernatural dictator, and the other
that believes in grisly old doctrines from antiquity.

The second camp will have a lot of explaining to do.
Murtuza Polen
NYC, United States
Aug 08, 2010 03:22 AM
83
Maha,

>> Do not take yourself too seriously.

When I see cartoon characters like you, I have to laugh.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 08, 2010 03:32 AM
84
Murtuza,

>> A new, aggressive, and secularist
atheism is being rapidly popularized.

I have no problem with it. If someone tries to spread hate against atheists, I shall attack him too.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 08, 2010 05:45 AM
85
'Anwaar':

What about the kabuki dance component of my question?

Do you really think that internet Sanghis are the
preeminent danger the world faces today? You are
not India-centric either, with your pan-Islamic
interests and self-identification. Why waste your
time with people who are beacons of tolerance when
compared, say, just next door to India -- a whole
society that is a religious apartheid society --
one that strips Ahmadi Muslims of their right to
legally even build a mosque or utter the Kalima?

Isn't your attention to them a little too strenuous?

You completely missed the point I made about
atheism. Bigotry or xenophobia are becoming
things of the past as the United States gets
to be more diverse. What will matter in the
future is not who "spreads hate" against an
atheist or some religious group. What will
count is whether your beliefs are defensible.

And no religions' beliefs are.
Murtuza Polen
NYC, United States
Aug 08, 2010 07:05 AM
86
MULLAH ANWAAR is just incorrigible- the ISLAMIC FUNDOO is beyond redumption.

Kashmir is burning and Maoist are on a massacring spree. Inflation is breaking the back of more than 50 Crore poor Indians who are being made destitute but PM declares that only "RAIN GOD" (monsoons) can save them. (Ever wounder why spent so much on PM and his Cabinet Ministers??? Why not build a mandir to RAIN GOD spending the money saved by throwing them out???) The "Common Wealth Games" has been converted into "CONGRESS WEALTH GAMES" by Congress CM of Delhi and other Congress leaders. Yet ANWAAR MIAN is stuck on Gujarat!!!!!

Progress of India is the only concern most Indians. India should progress so rapidly that all the "starving millions" get food. PAKIS should be left so far behind that PAKIS should feel "proud of being the neighbours of India". Having seen the FIVE YEARS of BJP rule and 45 years rule of CONGRESS, there is no doubt that BJP rule would lead India on the path of rapid growth than Congress. I care "two hoots" of what MULLAH ANWAAR personally thinks of me.
Akil
Bangalore, India
Aug 08, 2010 08:54 AM
87
Murtuza,

>> Do you really think that internet Sanghis are the
preeminent danger the world faces today?

My recent targets have been fake encounter murderers and the perpetrators of the Gujarat massacre. The sanghis in this forum are unhappy about that and either defend the people I attack or, if they can't do that, they attack me. I have also written several posts on intolerance and persecution of minorities, including Ahmadis and Hindus, in Pakistan and other Muslim majority countries.

>> What will count is whether your beliefs are defensible.

My comments seldom get into religious beliefs. Strange that you did not notice that.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 08, 2010 08:57 AM
88
Akil,

>> ANWAAR is just incorrigible.

What was your idiotic hate-filled post all about?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 08, 2010 10:23 AM
89
Anwaar:

The Gujarat riots -- and the ensuing displacement of
people from their villages or towns -- was a crime.

Any civilized person supports justice for riot victims.

But you would be surprised by how many self-identifying
'liberal' Pakistanis support religious apartheid laws.

Stop and think about it for a second: a government
tells a religious group that they are criminals for
-- even in private -- saying the Kalima or praying
collectively in a "building resembling a mosque".

That is why I think you should spend your time
more on intellectually attacking Islamic fascism.

What were the Gujarat riots about? The same thing
that the Sikh riots were about: the ugly medieval
idea of collective 'community' revenge punishment.

There is no argument to be had over it except to
support justice and possibly to ban the VHP, etc.

No one can suggest Indians have ignored the riots.

But Islamic fascism stands largely unchallenged in
the countries it controls: because of cowardice on
the part of otherwise strident western left-liberals.

The UK and Canada banned Zakir Naik, but not one
mainstream Indian left-liberal journalist has so
far written one piece criticizing him -- at all.

`
Murtuza Polen
NYC, United States
Aug 08, 2010 12:30 PM
90
'Anwaar':

>>My comments seldom get into religious beliefs. Strange that you did not notice that.

And my whole point to you was that they should.

The global discourse on this, as I said, is changing.
The new hard-atheist infusion into this has been to
attack and challenge every evidence-free religious
belief there is. When you talk about ending bigotry
and probably use words like 'Islamophobia', you need
to see that the most virulent attacks on the Islamic
faith are not going to come from religious bigots who
have their own theocratic agenda -- as in Sanghis --
but from secularists and atheists. You must adapt.

To give you an example, Hindu-Muslim marriages will
become increasingly more common now not because of
some incredibly strenuous or touching attempt to
reconcile Islamic theology with Hindu beliefs (and
involving cruel and abusive decisions about "which
religion will the child be brought up in?") but just
because members of both religious cults recognize
the Koran or Hindu books for the cr*p that they are.

Muslims are progressing more slowly at this, of course.
But you need to change this 'bigotry' and 'hate speech'
fixation you have. Those are not going to be the terms
of any discourse around increasingly discredited faiths.
Murtuza Polen
NYC, United States
Aug 08, 2010 01:11 PM
91
Murtuza,

I comment on Gujarat, the RSS/BJP and Pakistan. My posts on Pakistan seldom produce any responses. The sanghis do take me up on Gujarat and RSS/BJP, so there is often a continuous back and forth on those topics.

I do not discuss religion because that would be a futile discussion and this is not the forum for it anyway. I discuss communalism, prejudice and Muslim backwardness. I also write about secularism and upholding the law. Nobody knows what the topics of future discourse would be. I just read the articles that Outlook and some blogs publish and join in in the discussion.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 08, 2010 05:29 PM
92
"I also write about secularism '

By labeling one and all as Sanghies .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 08, 2010 11:29 PM
93
Ghai,

>>>> "I also write about secularism '
>> By labeling one and all as Sanghies .

Most sanghies know they are sanghis but you are in state of denial!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 08, 2010 11:31 PM
94
'Anwaar':

>>I comment on Gujarat, the RSS/BJP and Pakistan.

And would either of these three problems exist if it
wasn't for the tribalism and lies and evil of faith?

>>I do not discuss religion because that would be a futile discussion

'Futile'? How so? Is Pakistan, for instance, not a
country defined by Islam -- in every way conceivable?
How do you propose to address Pakistan and the danger
it poses to its neighbors, and the religious apartheid
system it has institutionalized, if you ignore faith?

I repeat: the "let's all agree to tolerate and respect
each others' superstitions" is not going to work any
more. You ought to recognize that the three problems
you listed are insoluble without discussing religion.
Murtuza Polen
NYC, United States
Aug 09, 2010 12:00 AM
95
Murtuza,

Attacking religions only makes fundamentalists come out of the woodwork and strenghthens regressive forces. It generates more heat than light. A better strategy is to try to bring about a scrupulous separation of religion and state and let religions work on their own evolution at their own varying paces.

I talk of religious reform on some Muslim blogs but I never vilify any religion. The attitude I like to promote is the one Gandhi advocated when he wrote. "My belief in the Hindu scriptures does not require me to accept every word and every verse as divinely inspired....I decline to be bound by any interpretation, however learned it may be, if it is repugnant to reason or moral sense." (Mahatma Gandhi, Young India, October 6, 1921, The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, Vol XXI, p 246).
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 09, 2010 12:43 AM
96
'Anwaar':

>>Attacking religions only makes fundamentalists come out of the woodwork and strenghthens regressive forces. It generates more heat than light.

Why don't you take the example of the atheist campaign
in the UK or US, for instance -- in the last four years
or so. What have been the effects? Polling data has
consistently indicated that the number of atheists or
agnostics in the United States doubled from 2005 to
2010 -- to make up almost 15-20% of US citizens today.

Scandinavia and France have atheist majorities already.

Your argument is simply not borne out by the evidence.
And we should know that the only source of light is heat.
Murtuza Polen
NYC, United States
Aug 09, 2010 01:30 AM
97
I have said it before. I will say it again. 'Anwaar' is old, bitter, frustrated, senile and a big part of the problem. His only response is to label anyone who calls his lies a Sanghi. If he and people like his were not so full of self-righteous pomposity, perhaps we would not have festering problems. Thankfully, other than some Congress hypocrites and brain dead people, the rest can see through such self-serving nonsense.
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
Aug 09, 2010 01:49 AM
98
'Anwaar':

>>A better strategy is to try to bring about a scrupulous separation of religion and state and let religions work on their own evolution at their own

No. The United States is the ideal, with the First
Amendment, but we see the consequence of the First
Amendment is to turn religion into private enterprise
-- and thus to strengthen and to popularize religion.

In a country like the U.K., the official status and
ensuing ennui of the Anglican Church's bureaucratic
authority ensures a mass production of nonbelievers,
especially among the young. But I would not support
such a setup at all -- the First Amendment is ideal.

So both things must be aimed for: the separation of
church and state, and an aggressive attack on faith.
Murtuza Polen
NYC, United States
Aug 09, 2010 03:32 AM
99
Murtuza,

>> the number of atheists or
agnostics in the United States doubled from 2005 to
2010 -- to make up almost 15-20% of US citizens today.

It should read "the number of people admitting to being atheists and agnostics .... doubled..."

>> both things must be aimed for: the separation of
church and state, and an aggressive attack on faith.

Aggressive attack on the faiths of others is the work of fundamentalists and zealots. Our paths are different.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 09, 2010 03:46 AM
100
'Anwaar':

>>Aggressive attack on the faiths of others is the work of fundamentalists

It's interesting how few people will say yes to the
question: do you especially value believing things
without proof? But considerably more, as in the Pew
poll in Pak, will admit to supporting the stoning or whipping of adulterers, the execution of apostates,
a violent and maniacal intolerance of anything that
might be construed as idolatry, and so on. To point
out that these beliefs are evil, are played out in
the real world with massive consequent suffering and
retardation, and must be repudiated, is not to be
any kind of a 'fundamentalist'. It is to support the
causes of a secular state and of an unfettered mind.

And for the last time: religion is not race. Your
religion is not inherent to you as a human being. It
is just a set of beliefs you were told as a child.

Our paths are indeed different. Good luck -- goodbye.

(For absolutely the last time this time, I promise you)
Murtuza Polen
NYC, United States
Aug 09, 2010 03:54 AM
101
Murtuza,

>> believing things without proof?

That's why religion is called "faith".

>> religion is not race.

I never said it was.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 09, 2010 05:59 AM
102
What was your idiotic hate-filled post all about?

When people like him have "BLINKERS ON", it is difficult to understand the post. The MADRASSA education has made ANWAAR mentally challenged.

"Kashmir is burning and Maoist are on a massacring spree. Inflation is breaking the back of more than 50 Crore poor Indians who are being made destitute but PM declares that only "RAIN GOD" (monsoons) can save them. (Ever wounder why spent so much on PM and his Cabinet Ministers??? Why not build a mandir to RAIN GOD spending the money saved by throwing them out???) The "Common Wealth Games" has been converted into "CONGRESS WEALTH GAMES" by Congress CM of Delhi and other Congress leaders. Yet ANWAAR MIAN is stuck on Gujarat!!!!!"

Read the post again with the BLINKERS OFF and may be (a BIG may be) you will understand the concerns of AAM ADMI of India in 2010. GUJARAT is a dead horse and wipping it will only strengthen the people whom you blame.
Akil
Bangalore, India
Aug 09, 2010 08:35 AM
103
Akil,

>> "Kashmir is burning and Maoist are on a massacring spree"

I have written about both, but I have yet to see a bajrangi hate-pracharak like you say anything about criminal police officers who commit custodial murders, or about a criminal state government which fosters a massacre while denying police and fire brigade help to the victims. When will you sanghis become normal decent human beings?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 09, 2010 03:42 PM
104
"Our paths are indeed different. Good luck -- goodbye.

(For absolutely the last time this time, I promise you)

MURTUZA POLEN sahib

You too finally realised useless to 'bin bajana'
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 10, 2010 06:53 AM
105
"criminal police officers who commit custodial murders",

ANWAAR, police attocities happens all over India, not in GUJARAT alone. It happens in USA too where WHITES are less likely to face police assault. Your ISLAMIC FUDOOISM shows when you harp only on "issues relating to Muslims". But when you are "earning your bread" by speaking up for MUSLIMS alone by being a "CAIR-man" nothing better can be expected of you.
Akil
Bangalore, India
Aug 10, 2010 07:10 AM
106
Akil,

>> police attocities happens all over India, not in GUJARAT alone.

What does that mean? Does it mean that those commiting police atrocities in Gujarat and their political mentors should get a clean chit? Does it mean that you, a sanghi propagandist, should be excused for not writing about police atrocities in Gujarat, a BJP run state, even though news about arrests and indictments there make headlines almost every day? It seems supporting criminal elements in society comes very naturally to sanghis, because you have never spoken out against the criminals in Ayodhya, Gujarat, Malegaon, Jalna, Purna, Ajmer, Hyderabad, Nanded, Tenkasi, Thana, Nagpur, Kanpur, Panvel or Modasa. Have you guys no sense of shame?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 10, 2010 12:03 PM
107
WHOM TO BELIEVE USA AND UNO OR SECU FRAUDS ?????

"“Executive Order 13224:

HuJI and Kashmiri have been involved in a series of terrorist activities in India, including the attack on the HYDERABAD MOSQUE in 2007 that killed 16 people and the March 2007 Varanasi terrorist strike that left at least 25 people dead and another 100 injured. Kashmiri’s name came up in connection with the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, and he was in close contact with Headley, who has confessed to his involvement in the Mumbai terror attacks that killed 166 people, including six Americans.

The joint State and Treasury Department actions taken today, in conjunction with the United Nation’s listing, illustrates the international community’s resolve to counter the threat posed by HuJI and its leader Mohammad Ilyas Kashmiri. "

USA and UNO have banned HUJI for many terror activities INCLUDING ATTACK ON HYDERABAD MECCA MASJID !

Secus have left no avenue to blame Mecca Masjid blasts on Hindus !

WHOM SHOULD WE BELIEVE USA AND UNO OR SECU FRAUDS????
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 10, 2010 12:47 PM
108
Ghai,

>> WHOM SHOULD WE BELIEVE USA AND UNO OR SECU

US and UN have data which is outdated on this and many other issues. In June 2010, the CBI arrested three men connected with RSS for the Ajmer blast. The CBI believes the same group is responsible for the Mecca masjid blast.

"The Hyderabad police had blamed Bangladesh-based Harkatul Jihad-e-Islami (HuJI) for the Mecca Masjid terror attack. It also arrested nearly a dozen local Muslim youth but could find no evidence against them. There have also been allegations of police torturing the youth in custody. The CBI could not make much progress in the case during the last three years." (IANS)

http://news.rediff.c...s-on-local-angle.htm
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 10, 2010 08:47 PM
109
" The CBI believes the same group is responsible for the Mecca masjid blast. "

CBI Believes hence not HUJI nor Ilayas Mhmd but Hundus are involved in Mecca Masjid blasts ?

CBI only believes but USA and UN has confirmed after deliberations and on basis of information supplied by Headely and other sources that HUJI and Mohamad Ilayas are responsible for blasts in Mecca Masjid and LeT in 26/11.

But still denials will be made like 9/11 inflicted by the Jews,Karsevaks self burnt in Godhra,Karkare was killed by Abhinavies and 26/11 self inflicted by Indians to blame Pakistan.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 11, 2010 12:30 AM
110
@ANWAAR
"Have you guys no sense of shame?"

NO. Now, can you please ensure that you keep your sorry ass away from India.

Shamelessly yours,

Champak Vada-paav Centre
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
Aug 11, 2010 01:54 AM
111
Ghai,

>> USA and UN has confirmed after deliberations and on basis of information supplied by Headely and other sources that HUJI and Mohamad Ilayas are responsible for blasts in Mecca Masjid and LeT in 26/11.

All that Headley said was that he was closely associated with Kashmiri of Huji. He did not say anything about the Mecca Masjid blast. US and UN have for three years believed in association of Huji with Mecca masjid blast, based on the 20007 reports of Andhra police. They have not yet caught up with the recent arrests of three RSS-connected men. But you will believe what you want to believe!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 11, 2010 07:33 PM
112
"Ayodhya, Gujarat, Malegaon, Jalna, Purna, Ajmer, Hyderabad, Nanded, Tenkasi, Thana, Nagpur, Kanpur, Panvel or Modasa".

ANWAAR,

Why stop at that?????? why did you not include 9/11, London Blast, 26/11, Mumbai Blast, Jaipur Blast, etc etc. That is what TAAQUIA MASTERS like you have been propogating.

"Have you guys no sense of shame?"

Since you have persistently branded me a "sanghi" why should I be ashamed??? Shouldn't I be proud for "commencing to hit back" at the perpetrators of violence???? Isn't that what USA, your adopted country, is doing in AFPAK, IRAQ etc. So why are you staying on in such a country???
Akil
Bangalore, India
Aug 11, 2010 08:11 PM
113
Ajit,

>> why did you not include 9/11, London Blast, 26/11, Mumbai Blast, Jaipur Blast, etc.

Because they were not the work of sanghis! I have condemned all of them repeatedly. I was talking of the lack of shame and condemnation on the part of sanghis like you for Ayodhya, Gujarat, Malegaon, Jalna, Purna, Ajmer, Hyderabad, Nanded, Tenkasi, Thana, Nagpur, Kanpur, Panvel or Modasa.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 11, 2010 08:45 PM
114
Outlook moderators, I hold the resident mullah in contempt. Please advise him not to attribute remarks to me that I have not made. Because I am studiously ignoring the pest, his obsessive need to seek attention is making him adopt such ruses.
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
Aug 11, 2010 09:19 PM
115
"Because they were not the work of sanghis"

ANWAAR, Many Indian Muslims, including a Cabinet Minister had openly declared that 26/11 was perpetrated by "sanghis". A retired Muslims IPS officer has written a book giving out the full inside story. So how are you so sure. Are you privy to CIA reports??

Comment on this too.

Since you have persistently branded me a "sanghi" why should I be ashamed??? Shouldn't I be proud for "commencing to hit back" at the perpetrators of violence???? Isn't that what USA, your adopted country, is doing in AFPAK, IRAQ etc. So why are you staying on in such a country???
Akil
Bangalore, India
Aug 11, 2010 09:29 PM
116
My apologies to Ajit. That post was meant for Akil.

Akil, if you say Hindutva terrorists are "commencing to hit back", you are talking like Osama!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 12, 2010 03:19 PM
117
@ANWAAR: "Akil, if you say Hindutva terrorists are "commencing to hit back", you are talking like Osama!"

So, what else are Hindus supposed to do when a certain community goes on a killing spree? Lie down and await their turn for Nirvana? And that is the right thing to do. Godhra has proved that this community does not understand a language of logic and peace. One of the most potent threat that the country faces today is the incessant proliferation of this community by way of multiple marriages and ceaseless reproduction. Only BJP can defend the country from these scoundrels.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
Aug 13, 2010 01:04 AM
118
>> what else are Hindus supposed to do when a certain community goes on a killing spree?

It is ridiculous to say that Hindutva terrorist or violent acts such as the ones at Ayodhya, Gujarat, Malegaon, Jalna, Purna, Ajmer, Hyderabad, Nanded, Tenkasi, Thana, Nagpur, Kanpur, Panvel or Modasa were just retaliatory or defensive. People like Col.Purohit, Sadhvi Pragya, Dayanand Pande, Devendra Gupta and their ilk are the true progeny of Savarkar, Golwalkar and Godse, not mere reactors to earlier blasts.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 13, 2010 06:46 AM
119
"you are talking like Osama"!

ANWAAR,

Now it is only "TALK". Just pray it doesn't reach "ACTION" stage because you clearly know who would be at the receiving end.

Hindus who are the followers of the a TRUE SECULAR RELIGION (Hindus can pray to any god but can remain a HINDU by accepting everyone elses right to pray to GODS of their choice- nobody is a KAFIR, a non-believer for HINDUS)can never reach the state of the OSAMA. OSAMA will remain the "unique contribution of ISLAM to the WORLD". But ANWAAR would be happy if people like him force Hindus to decend to the level of OSAMA as they would have suceeded in taking India down to the level of their "PROMISED LAND- AFPAK".
Akil
Bangalore, India
Aug 13, 2010 07:20 AM
120
Akil,

>>>> "you are talking like Osama"!
>> Now it is only "TALK". Just pray it doesn't reach "ACTION" stage because you clearly know who would be at the receiving end.

Thanks for making my point! I always knew sanghi mentality is a close cousin of Al-qaeda mentality.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 18, 2010 02:23 PM
121
"No evidence against Modi in Sohrab case NEW DELHI: In a major relief to BJP, CBI has scotched speculation about Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's involvement in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case. CBI officials said it had no evidence against Modi, who has been in the line of fire after ex-MoS home Amit Shah was arrested. Fingers were raised against the CM, who allegedly had ordered the transfer of some Gujarat senior police officers, reportedly to derail the probe in the fake encounter that took place in 2005. CBI officials claimed that Modi's decision to transfer police officials during the probe could not be contested. They argued that since he was not only the CM but also the home minister, it was well within his jurisdiction to transfer police officials in the state. " http://timesofindia....icleshow/6328030.cms OVER TO SABA NAQVI & SECUS
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 18, 2010 02:30 PM
122
http://timesofindia....icleshow/6328173.cms

Key witness in Sohrabuddin case retracts statement


AHMEDABAD: A key witness in the Sohrabuddin Sheikh fake encounter case, Noor Mohammed Goghari, on Tuesday retracted in the sessions court a critical disclosure he had made before the CBI. He told the court that he went into hiding because he was afraid that the CBI would coerce him into making statements suitable to it and falsely implicate him in the case. Goghari had given evidence on IPS officers DG Vanzara, Abhay Chudasama and others taking Rs 40 lakh from him after killing Sohrabuddin.

A day before the accused are to appear before the trial court in the Popular Builder firing case, the man most sought after by the CBI — Goghari — appeared before the court and had his warrant cancelled. The court had issued a bailable warrant against him after he missed a hearing date.

In his application before additional sessions judge IB Waghela, Goghari complained, "I was called to the CBI office along with a co-accused Mahendrasinh Zala and interrogated about the Sohrabuddin case, but I said that I did not know anything. But CBI officials exerted tremendous pressure on me to make statements of their choice, saying that they would help me out in this [Popular Builder firing case]".


OVER TO SABA NAQVI AND SECUS
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 18, 2010 06:55 PM
123
""No evidence against Modi in Sohrab case NEW DELHI: In a major relief to BJP, CBI has scotched speculation about Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's involvement in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case " Times of India

Outlook, Secular brigade and National newspapers have beencovering Amit Sha's case on hourly basis.

None has the courage to speak now .

And where are Teesta and Miss Sarabhi ? What they say now ?
ram prasn haryanvi
Ambala Cantt, India
Aug 18, 2010 06:58 PM
124
"A key witness in the Sohrabuddin Sheikh fake encounter case, Noor Mohammed Goghari, on Tuesday retracted in the sessions court a critical disclosure he had made before the CBI. He told the court that he went into hiding because he was afraid that the CBI would coerce him into making statements suitable to it and falsely implicate him in the case. Goghari had given evidence on IPS officers DG Vanzara, Abhay Chudasama and others taking Rs 40 lakh from him after killing Sohrabuddin."

Horrible !
ram prasn haryanvi
Ambala Cantt, India
Aug 18, 2010 10:26 PM
125
"""No evidence against Modi in Sohrab case NEW DELHI: In a major relief to BJP, CBI has scotched speculation about Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's involvement in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case " Times of India

The whole issue is a farce and this shows it. The succus will move on to the next issue without expressing regret.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 18, 2010 10:54 PM
126
Ghai,

>> In a major relief to BJP, CBI has scotched speculation about Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's involvement in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case.

So is the CBI good now?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 18, 2010 11:02 PM
127
Ganesan,

>> The whole issue is a farce and this shows it.

Is the issue of fake encounter murders a farce? And if Modi is not involved, does that absolve all the rest of that bunch?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 19, 2010 01:27 AM
128
"Is the issue of fake encounter murders a farce? "

In this case, the answer is yes. Killing a terrorist in any matter shape or form is perfectly fine with me.

BTW, poor Amit SHah has to go thro' the ordeal. I hope it ends soon for him as well. They tried to book Modi thro' him but the effort apparently has failed now. Let us see what happens.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 19, 2010 06:57 AM
129
Ganesan,

>> Killing a terrorist in any matter shape or form is perfectly fine with me.

Killing someone who is already in police custody is not okay in civilized countries.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 21, 2010 11:24 PM
130
"Killing someone who is already in police custody is NOT OKAY IN CIVILIZED COUNTRIES." - Anwaar

Please understand that India is not a civilized country yet. We still drive like crazy, spit on streets, pee on the walls, throw garbage all around etc. To make that worse, judiciary, law and order not only works in slow-motion, but sometimes even goes into hibernation. So, we have to deal with the scoundrels with encounters - fake or otherwise. India is no US. Your sense of "ideal actions" looks good in the thesis books but falls flat in reality.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
Aug 22, 2010 03:09 AM
131
Irreverent,

>> we have to deal with the scoundrels with encounters - fake or otherwise.

A scoundrel is not a scoundrel until a court says so. Police can kill him only if he is posing a threat to the police, not when he is already in police custody.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 22, 2010 05:29 AM
132
Anwaar: I am amazed by the belief you have in the judiciary. What has the judiciary done in open-and-shut cases like Azmal Kasab, Arun Gawli, Abu Salem and the list can go on?

The end of LTTE is a living proof that some issues have to be handled through extra-constitutional measures. In the days of fast foods, people do not have the patience to wait endlessly for an outcome.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
Aug 22, 2010 05:55 AM
133
>> I am amazed by the belief you have in the judiciary.

He, like other seculars, has faith in judiciary, only when the judgement is acceptable.

We have seen how seculars treat inconvenient judgements by their actions during Shah Bano, emergency etc.
Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
Aug 22, 2010 11:50 AM
134
Irreverent,

>> I am amazed by the belief you have in the judiciary.

Our judiciary can be better, but even with all its faults, it is far far better than letting the cops be judges and executioners.

>> The end of LTTE is a living proof that some issues have to be handled through extra-constitutional measures.

Field battles with terrorists as well as real encounters are not extra-constitutional. Killing a terrorist whom you already have in your jail is extraconstitutional murder.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 23, 2010 02:56 AM
135
"Killing a terrorist whom you already have in your jail is extraconstitutional murder."

NO PROBLEM. I would rather have Arun Gawli, Abu Salems, Md. Sahabuddin, Azad and all their ilks killed extra-constitutionally than bear the ignominy of seeing their mugshots in ballot papers and reality shows.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
Aug 23, 2010 08:27 AM
136
Irreverent,

>> I would rather have Arun Gawli, Abu Salems, Md. Sahabuddin, Azad and all their ilks killed extra-constitutionally.

You and the sanghis are complicit in culpable homicides. Some of the top police officers in Gujarat are in jail for fake encounter murders. You seem to want more police officers to end up in jail!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 23, 2010 04:32 PM
137
Now that you keep offending all by calling them Sanghi... take this bitter pill of truth...

The policemen are only doing their duty. If they were not doing so, your peace-loving brothers from within and outside the country would have accelerated our Nirvana. If you expect that your candle-lighting fellow-citizens burn a train instead of midnight oil on education, and we will keep quiet, you are mistaken. The response to Godhra and the calm thereafter indicates that there is only one language that your religio-fanatic brothers understand.

Since the nice people amongst you (I still beleive that you are one of those nice person, as many of your points are theoretically correct, though practically absurd) continue to defend the scoundrel few, someone needs to clean up the mess that your community and your sickular supporters refuses to acknowledge.

I suggest that you watch a movie "The Wednesday". It is not a Sanghi documentary, and has established people backing it. It has a very nice dialogue: "When you have a cockroach in your home, you don't cage it; You have to kill it.".
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
Aug 24, 2010 03:20 AM
138
Irreverent,

>> The policemen are only doing their duty.

No, they are not! They are committing serious crimes. People like you are aiding and abetting them. The current probe in Gujarat will have one salutary effect. Police officers in other states will think twice before they plot to murder a detainee. The rest of your post is just rubbish.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 24, 2010 06:19 AM
139
"The rest of your post is just rubbish." - Anwar, with "war" mis-spelt...

Going by the kind of name you have, I thought rubbish is what you love most. I dish out rubbish for you so that you stop your lousy practice of shop-lifting at garbage dumps.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
Aug 24, 2010 07:19 AM
140
Irreverent,

>> I dish out rubbish for you ...

Because you have run out of arguments!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 03, 2010 11:09 AM
141
"Childish be specific'

Faruki

As you wish Sir !
--------------------------

"Judge, Govt, CBI did deal to fix Sohrab case: Amit Shah

His reason, according to the petition settled by Ram Jethmalani: “the order (is) a product of a tripartite understanding and arrangement to the effect that the CBI investigation would be ordered by Hon’ble Mr Justice Tarun Chatterjee (the lead judge who issued the January 12 order) as desired by the Central Government, the Central government will provide the Hon’ble Justice a post-retirement assignment, and the CBI will refrain from chargesheeting the Hon’ble Justice in the PF scam case.”

"He said the Sohrabuddin probe is an off-shoot of the Centre’s failed attempt to sully the BJP-led Gujarat government in connection with the Godhra train burning incident and the ensuing riots.
Having failed to tarnish the image of the Gujarat Government and its Chief Minister in the Gujarat riots cases, the Congress Party and the Central Government under its rule, has now selected the Sohrabuddin case, out of over 700 cases of encounters all over India that took place during 2002 to 2007, for the same nefarious purpose,” Shah alleged.

http://www.indianexp...e-amit-shah/676567/0

-----------------------

The above 89 page Petition has been submitted to Two Honourable Chief Justices by Ram JethMalani on behalf of Amit Shah in case of Shorabudin encounter.

Since serious allegations have been levelled against the Judiciary both Ram Jethmalani and Amit Shah be hauled for contempt of the Court.

Mr Tulsi a highly reputable Prosecution Council of CBI should appeal the Court for contempt.

But before that Tulsi ,CBI and Union Govt should clarify how a 3000 pages charge Sheet against Amit shah was filed even BEFORE THE INVESTIGATION WAS COMPLETED AND EVEN SHAH WAS NOT INTERROGATED as per the Law.

So what CBI is now doing is that it is finding or fabricating the evidences to support teh charges it levelled against Shah !

Amit Shah's prosecution is nothing but a Political Encounter !
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 03, 2010 11:22 AM
142
Ghai,

>> the CBI investigation would be ordered by Hon’ble Mr Justice Tarun Chatterjee (the lead judge who issued the January 12 order) as desired by the Central Government, the Central government will provide the Hon’ble Justice a post-retirement assignment.

This is a mischievous allegation from Jethmalani. It is not a settled fact.

>> how a 3000 pages charge Sheet against Amit shah was filed even BEFORE THE INVESTIGATION WAS COMPLETED AND EVEN SHAH WAS NOT INTERROGATED as per the Law.

They can file a charge sheet based on evidence collected from other witnesses.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 03, 2010 11:29 AM
143
"Asking why the CBI is not investigating the role of the Andhra Pradesh Police in the alleged abduction, Shah sought the removal of Kandaswamy, IPS, who is in charge of the CBI investigation, and Balwinder Singh, a former Commissioner of Police in Hyderabad, who is supervising the case from Delhi for "suppressing the role of the AP police".

http://in.news.yahoo...reme-court-says.html

Another salvo against CBI's investigating who too has much to answere in Shorabudin's encounter for his role .

SO SbabNaqvi our Oranges

He said that the "most shocking aspect of the CBI investigation is that Balwinder Singh who ought to be answering questions from any investigator of the Sobrabuddin encounter on the role of the AP police is now supervising the very investigation and Geetha Johri, who as the head of the Gujarat CID Crime was heading the investigation of the Sohrabuddin encounter and was wanting to question Balwinder Singh, is now being questioned and even threatened with arrest."

http://in.news.yahoo...reme-court-says.html

Another salvo against CBI by Amit Shah who by filing such accusatory Petitions is liable for the the Contempt which can be punished provided the accusations are false and malicious.

I hope the CBI will surely make a move now towards in this direction .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 03, 2010 11:33 AM
144
SO SbabNaqvi your Oranges and Lemons have turned out to be extremely rotten and are emitting horribly foul odours.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 03, 2010 12:04 PM
145
Ghai,

>> why the CBI is not investigating the role of the Andhra Pradesh Police in the alleged abduction,

Such petitions are going to be made when one can afford top lawyers. Some petitions may stick, most won't. No contempt of court is involved.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 03, 2010 12:12 PM
146
"They can file a charge sheet based on evidence collected from other witnesses' FARUKI

Why Tulsi could not say this for two hours when he was asked repeatedly by the Court that how the Charge sheet was filed without investigation was over ?
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 03, 2010 12:19 PM
147
>> Why Tulsi could not say this for two hours.

As long as nobody is talking of throwing out the charge sheet, it does not matter. Lawyers get hung up in some fine point of law and the big facts are forgotten.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 03, 2010 12:24 PM
148
'As long as nobody is talking of throwing out the charge sheet, it does not matter'faruki

So proceed with legally not correct Charge sheet till it is not thrown out !
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 03, 2010 12:30 PM
149
Ghai,

It is a valid charge sheet. If it is thrown out, let me know.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 07, 2010 11:53 AM
150
" Now, Mathur accuses CBI of putting pressure

After Geetha Johri, retired IPS officer O P Mathur has alleged that the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) wanted him to give a statement against the then Minister of State (Home), Amit Shah, in connection with the Sohrabuddin Sheikh fake encounter case.

He has levelled this and many other allegations against the Central probe agency in a letter — dated August 7 and accessed by The Indian Express — written to the Additional Chief Secretary (Home) with reference to his interrogation by CBI officers on August 5.

In his letter, Mathur has narrated how CBI put pressure on him to depose against certain police officers and in particular against Shah."

http://www.indianexp...ing-pressure/678244/

Star Witness Goggori too said so.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 07, 2010 12:02 PM
151
"The CBI — in its charge sheet filed against the Sohrabuddin murder case accused including Mr. Shah — claimed that Ghoghari admitted that the former DIG and prime accused, D.G. Vanzara; the former Superintendent of Police, Rajkumar Pandian; and the former Deputy Commissioner, Abhay Chudasma extorted Rs. 40 lakh from him after the Sohrabuddin encounter.


However, in an application before the Ahmedabad sessions court, where he made an unexpected appearance, Ghoghari claimed that he made no such statement before the CBI. He said he, along with another accused in the Popular Builders firing case, Mahendrasinh Jhala, had been called to the CBI office for interrogation in the Sohrabuddin case.

“I said I did not know anything, but the CBI officials exerted tremendous pressure on us to make statements of their choice, saying that they would [in turn] help us in the Popular Builders firing case.”

http://www.hindu.com...2010081966671500.htm
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 07, 2010 12:22 PM
152
Ghai,

>> After Geetha Johri, retired IPS officer O P Mathur has alleged that the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) wanted him to give a statement against the then Minister of State.

Seems Johri, Mathur and Goggori are all working in concert with the Modi gang! They want to frustrate the CBI one way or another!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 07, 2010 12:26 PM
153
"And Johri is not biased? What did the Supreme Court say about her work?" Faruki

Johri says the SC's observations were made against her without hearing her or chance to explain her position .she ha filed the curative Petition before SC for Rectification :-

'Ms. Johri said the court's observations against her were made without hearing her and were based on incorrect and inadequate representation, and this exposed her to the serious risk of threats and blackmail by the CBI "

She further alleges that she was pressurised to implicate the politicians :

"Political angle”

Alleging a political angle, she said that ever since the CBI began the probe it had started exerting pressure on Gujarat police officers, including her, to either name the political personalities, including Mr. Shah, or stand charged as accused in the killings of Sohrabuddin, his wife Kausar Bi and Tulsiram Prajapati, an accomplice of Sohrabuddin.

http://www.thehindu....al/article599990.ece
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 07, 2010 12:37 PM
154
"Seems Johri, Mathur and Goggori are all working in concert with the Modi gang! They want to frustrate the CBI one way or another!" Faruki

Now they are your witnesses. Prosecution was depending upon them .

Why could not be all of them telling the truth ? Unfortunately the truth does not meet your high but false hopes .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 07, 2010 06:47 PM
155
"Seems Johri, Mathur and Goggori are all working in concert with the Modi gang!"

Yes. That is not acceptable. They should be working in concert with Congress gang at the center.
Maha
NJ, United States
Sep 08, 2010 12:34 AM
156
Ghai,

>> Johri says the SC's observations were made against her without hearing her.

They all say that on the advice of their lawyers!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 08, 2010 12:38 AM
157
Ghai,

>>>> "Seems Johri, Mathur and Goggori are all working in concert with the Modi gang! They want to frustrate the CBI one way or another!" Faruki
>> Now they are your witnesses. Prosecution was depending upon them .

Two are hostile witnessesfrom the beginning. One was a prosecution witness but later turned hostile.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
COLLAPSE COMMENTS   
Post a Comment
You are not logged in, please log in or register
ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SUBSCRIBE | ADVERTISING RATES | COPYRIGHT & DISCLAIMER | COMMENTS POLICY