indians in australia
Do You Speak Australian?
The new visibility of Indians—fresh off the ships, insufficiently ‘Aussie’, swamping the job scene—feeds a latent racism
next
Mandeep Singh Cookery student
The Australian dream is still alive for this Delhi youngster as he lands at Melbourne
Interview
The leader of the Revolutionary Socialist Party who created a stir by protesting in the famous Ku Klux Klan outfit shares his views
Outlook
Interview
Victoria’s premier on the measures his government has taken to make Victoria safe for Indians
Outlook
indians in australia
Rough neighbourhoods, night jobs, the compulsion to stay—a deadly triad makes soft targets of Indians
Pranay Sharma
options
When tough talk yields no results, tougher measures are needed
Pranay Sharma

Bells Toll

  • 130 Indians attacked countrywide, the Indian high commission says. Of these, 30 were students.
  • 1,447 incidents of crime against Indians in 2007-08 have been reported in Victoria alone. The state is crime-prone, and has a force of 13,000, including volunteers, to police a population of four million.
  • 33 Indians died in violent attacks between 2004 and 2009, says Federation of Indian Students of Australia spokesperson Gautam Gupta. Of these, six died in 2009. Nitin Garg was stabbed to death in 2010.
  • On Jan 5, the Indian government issued an advisory to Indian students in Australia
    asking them to take certain precautionary measures while travelling.
  • 33.2% visa applications turned down by Australia between July 1 and October 31, 2009, up from 6.5 per cent for the corresponding period in 2008. These applications were mostly turned down because of documentation fraud.

***

Kanan Bhargawa still shudders at the memory of March 16, 2008. This young student from Ambala was accompanying his friend Jassi that day to the local railway station of Sunshine, the city’s relatively poorer suburb where many Indians stay. They had gone to pick up Jassi’s wife who was returning from the city at night. The moment the duo reached the station, they were accosted by a group of boys. One of them, presumably their leader, demanded a dollar. When Kanan said he didn’t have one, the group fell upon him, raining blows and mouthing racial expletives. Jassi tried to intervene, only to be beaten up as well. Their fury vented, the assailants vanished in a jiffy. Kanan has lost vision in his right eye. In a quivering voice, he says, “I was lucky, I wasn’t knifed.”

 
 
“Not only are Indian students taking away seats in colleges; by staying behind, they are also taking away jobs,” says a right-wing party leader.
 
 
One might think that suburbs such as Sunshine are prone to random violence. One may not even slot the attack on Kanan as completely racial. But talk to Indians walking around in Melbourne, and they’ll tell you that the spectre of racism is stalking them in every neighbourhood. Take Kamlesh Patel, a post-graduate in chemical engineering from the prestigious Monash University. He stays in Prahran, a posh neighbourhood, safe from the baddies of Sunshine. A few months ago, as Patel was walking his dog, a carload of youngsters braked to a halt near him. From inside the car, one boy shouted, “Hey, you Indian bastard, why don’t you go back home?”

There is what can be termed ‘repressed racism’ in Australia, erupting at the slightest provocation or under the influence of liquor or often for no reason other than the sight of an Indian. Gurdeep Singh’s been driving a taxi for some years now in Melbourne. Only last weekend, a drunk Australian in his car exploded, “F*** off bastard, go back to your country and work.”

These examples illustrate vividly the danger Indians in Melbourne face daily. Does this arise exclusively from an innate racism? Well, the economic fear that Indians, arriving in hordes, will rob them of jobs in the enveloping gloom of the slowdown ties in with it. As does the ‘cultural’ factor that the growing Indian community, largely drawn from small towns and villages back home, is perhaps as a group not sufficiently adjusted to the local culture and its demands?

 
 
Adds another, “The government should actively encourage bringing in Christians and white people from Zimbabwe and South Africa.”
 
 
It is those in the left-liberal parties who feel the attacks on Indians, or at least some of those, have a strong racial basis. Those in the extreme right-wing outfits deny this outright. Among the latter is Jim Salaem, head of the Australia First Party, which has adopted the contentious immigration issue as its principal cause. Salaem says it isn’t the white Australians who are attacking Indians. He blames the violence on those who have migrated from Muslim countries or Africa. But he concedes that the government’s open-door immigration policy has created enormous problems for white Australians. “The government’s education policy of getting students from India and other countries is depriving our local boys a chance to get into universities,” Salaem told Outlook.

The situation has been compounded, says the Australia First leader, because the education policy is closely linked to the immigration policy, which allows a large number of overseas students, including those from India, to work in Australia until they are granted citizenship. Salaem fulminates, “Not only are these Indian students taking away the seats in colleges and universities, they are also taking away the jobs that could have gone to an Australian student. In addition, by staying back and getting a permanent residency in Australia, they are becoming a serious threat to white Australians in the job market.” He consequently wants overseas students to return home after they complete their studies.

Similarly, Bob Vinnicombe of One Nation, yet another right-wing group, wants a cap on the number of immigrants coming to Australia. “The government should actively encourage bringing in Christians and white people from Zimbabwe and South Africa,” he told Outlook. Neither the Australia First Party nor One Nation matters much in Australia’s parliamentary politics. But Vinnicombe claims that many politicians in other parties share his views, though they refrain from going public for political reasons. His and Salaem’s views may not be shared by most Australians, yet the attacks on Indians have brought the immigration and race issues to the fore again.

 
 
“Most Indian students perhaps know about our geography, but know little about Australian history,” says a professor of history in Sydney.
 
 
Perhaps their views have also gained ground because Indians have become more visible in Australia. The Australian can’t miss him in his daily routine. He sees the Indian on the train when he goes to work; it’s the Indian who serves him at the takeaway; the Indian is there again behind the counter when he goes to buy groceries at the supermarket; he mans the gas stations, or is behind the wheel every time the white Australian takes a taxi at night. As if all this isn’t enough, he also finds a few of them living in his posh neighbourhood. Says Gautam Gupta, spokesperson of the Federation of Indian Students in Australia (FISA), “Perhaps somewhere in the Australian mind, the Indians have started playing a role.”

The furore over racism is also a case of mismatch in perceptions. Most attacks are seen back in India as racial, even though some can be purely for robbery. In Australia, an attack is not deemed racial till it can be established that the intent was such, and not purely criminal. To understand why Indians are particularly susceptible to mugging, one only has to hear the mean joke doing the rounds here: “What’s common between an atm and an Indian? You get money whenever you hit them.”

It’s true many young Indians flaunt their iPhones, iPods or carry laptops around the city. Those looking for easy money target Indians because they have things that can be sold easily. Since most Indian students share a pad with six or seven others, they feel it’s safer to carry cash with them rather than leave it behind. They are loath to deposit money in a bank fearing they might be asked whether they are adhering to laws regulating the number of hours they can legally work. No wonder, the authorities here are advising Indians not to carry their valuables on them. This has FISA president Amit Menghani bristle, “How can you ask them not to carry their mobile phones? How will they ask for help if they are attacked?”

 
 
Agrees Benjamin Cass: “There are only two things they know about Australia, that it has kangaroos and that we play cricket.”
 
 
Partly, the violence in Melbourne, including attacks on Indians, has increased because the economic downturn has compelled the Australian government to downsize its police force by 2,500 personnel. The state of Victoria today has a police force of only 13,000 personnel to man a population of over four million people. So, you no longer find a cop patrolling many a railway station, often the site of attacks.

Indians are also considered soft targets because they don’t retaliate. No one messes around with the Chinese, for instance, because they rush out to help their fellow nationals in distress. The Indian, in contrast, it’s said, rushes to the media. The Indian community is also a house divided. Melbourne has 1,50,000 Indians, but on the January 26 celebration of the Australian National Day, they were the only nationality marching under four separate banners.

Nor is there unanimity among Indians whether or not these attacks are racist in nature. Those who are rich and have resided here for years vehemently deny that Australians are racist. Vasan Srinivasan, president of the Federation of Indian Association of Victoria, can be counted as one among them. “I have been living here for the last 23 years,” he told Outlook. “but have never experienced any racial slur from the Australians. I have two young daughters; if they were racist, do you think I would have stayed in this country?” Of course, there is always the counter-argument: that the rich can keep away from troubled areas, not travel in public transport and are therefore less vulnerable to racial abuse or attacks.

 
 
No one messes around with a Chinese because fellow nationals run to his aid. The Indian, on the other hand, rushes to the media.
 
 
This group of rich Indians partially blames the attacks on their brethren who have arrived recently in droves, belong to small towns, and are completely oblivious to the cultural sensibilities of Australians. They blast their Bhangra music on trains, talk loudly while travelling in public transport and make lewd comments and gestures at young Australian girls. Says Gagandeep Singh, who manages a petrol pump in one of the Melbourne suburbs, “Some months back, while travelling on a train with my parents who were visiting me from Punjab, I felt so ashamed because you could clearly hear the choicest Punjabi abuses from a group of Indian boys who were also in the compartment.” An Indian lady says a young Australian girl once confided in her that she prefers to stand in train coaches than to sit next to Indian boys. Otherwise, she said she’d spend the entire travel time warding off their advances.

The controversy over racism also stems from ignorance about each other’s culture and history. “Most Indian students perhaps know about the geography of Australia, but have very little knowledge about its history,” says Heather Goodall, a professor of history at the University of Technology, Sydney. She says most Indians only know that Australia followed a ‘white-only’ immigration policy for much of its history, forgetting its strong left-liberal tradition and its fight against racism. Agrees Benjamin Cass, who has worked with Indian students planning to come to Australia to study, “There are perhaps only two things they know about Australia: one, that it has kangaroos and two, that the people here play cricket.”

 
 
“Travelling on a train sometime back, I was ashamed, as you could hear the choicest Punjabi abuses,” says Gagandeep Singh.
 
 
Indeed, the attacks on Indians have prompted many Australians to call for urgent introspection and acknowledgement that racism is still a serious problem in the country. Says documentary filmmaker John Bolston, “When you’ve been told by your political leaders that you are the best, then it is difficult to accept yourself as racist. Perhaps, it is time that the government takes the initiative for us to wash our dirty linen in public.” The debate on racism is expected to gather momentum as Victoria and Australia inch closer to elections by this yearend.

Others also want Indians to remember that what they are witnessing, though reprehensible, are typically the birth pangs every immigrant group has experienced when their numbers have grown substantially in Australia. It happened with the Chinese, Afghans, Jews, Greeks, Lebanese and Vietnamese. It’s now the turn of Indians, who must unite and establish linkages with liberal Australians to protect themselves—and their interests.

Interview
The leader of the Revolutionary Socialist Party who created a stir by protesting in the famous Ku Klux Klan outfit shares his views
Outlook
Interview
Victoria’s premier on the measures his government has taken to make Victoria safe for Indians
Outlook
indians in australia
Rough neighbourhoods, night jobs, the compulsion to stay—a deadly triad makes soft targets of Indians
Pranay Sharma
options
When tough talk yields no results, tougher measures are needed
Pranay Sharma
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Daily MailPublished
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
May 07, 2010 04:28 AM
548
Australia has a problem with racism however most countries do. I have been the subject of racist slurs from white Australians while in Australia, and since I'm white Australia this confused me exceptionally.
I lived in India an d studied Hindi there and found it very difficult, as I was constantly harassed and was robbed twice of very large sums of money, simply because I was seen as an easy target. I even had a waiter ask me if I would go out at night with him while I ate at a five star restaurant.
Australia isn't perfect, but no country is. Look at India and you will see how an imperfect country can still be beautiful. Indians accept India the way it is, and when they come to Australia to study and live, they must understand that they are in a different environment and adjust to it.
Racism is wrong, it is an evil of society that should not exist, but it does. Australia is still full of beautiful people and great opportunities for immigrants!
I love Indians. I love seeing women in their beautiful salwar-kameez or saris, practicing my Hindi and eating yummy India food. I hope Indians continue to come to Australia.
Cassi
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 18, 2010 10:32 PM
547
ALAN:

I always find it easier to follow sports on TV at home.

The irony of holding the Winter OLympics in Van is that it is the only large city in Canada with anything like a mild climate.

You guys have it good weatherwise, but I understand a shortage of water is feared.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 18, 2010 04:29 AM
546
Can never have too many Indian restaurants Ali. Not so sure about Bollywood style hairdressers.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 17, 2010 07:23 PM
545
Aussies should take some consolation from all this. Although they may be struck down in the future by a huge epidemic of Delhi belly from the thousands of Indian restaurants that are going to mushroom everywhere when all these characters graduate, at least because of all the new beauty parlours they will be looking good as they rush towards the snakes house.
Ali
Panchkula, India
Feb 17, 2010 05:28 PM
544
All of a sudden this slanging match has degenerated into cameraderie ;-). Do we come back after the commercial break?
Ganesh C Prasad
Sydney, Australia
Feb 17, 2010 12:42 PM
543
Yeah, heard about snow being trucked in. At least you had contingency plans. You getting to any events?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 17, 2010 12:25 PM
542
ALAN:

People are tremendously proud and happy about the Olympics, despite the weather refusing to help with enough snow.

A bit ironic, that, as we had a surfeit of snow last year - I spent most of the Xmas holidays shovelling the stuff.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 17, 2010 07:35 AM
541
"In any case it is to the credit of Aussies that they elected him."

I suppose it is Iqram, in the same way it's a credit to the Canadians who elected the blokes you mentioned. No-one went around patting each other on the back that I was aware of. It was just a fact of our society. Perhaps the likes of John So and David de Kretzer should be publicised more overseas to help combat some stereotypes.

How're you enjoying the Olympics?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 17, 2010 03:14 AM
540
PAUL:

Sorry to have misread your post: you said half the CANADIAN students in Oz are of Indian origin. Very different thing.....Still, it does surprise me. I would have expected a lot of Chinese. In any case, I can assure you this is not due to any lack of educational opportunities for Indo-Canadians. Their enrollment levels in higher education by my observation are very high.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 17, 2010 03:05 AM
539
ALAN:

Maybe John So didn't even know English when he came to Oz? In any case it is to the credit of Aussies that they elected him. Way to go !

PAUL:

It does amaze me to hear half the students of Indian origin in Oz are from Canada. Can't account for that. Do you have any ideas on this?
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 17, 2010 02:52 AM
538
ALAN, PAUL:

I am trying to be amiable. I do not speak Strine and so don't even know the meanings of some of the words you use.

Strine is a separate language in itself. It seems to be marked by the substitution of y for i and a. Thus you guys tend to say "Yin the boondocks aye cut off the tyle of aye kangaroo. Thys wys becayese aye bydely nydyed food." No wonder the currently beaten-up Indians can't speak your lingo. Give em time, Cobber !!!
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 16, 2010 09:52 AM
537
You'll find this funny Iqram. When I dashed off the premier and governor as examples of non-anglo political achievements, I completely forgot the last Lord Mayor of Melbourne. John So migrated to Australia from Hong Kong at 17. He was the first popularly elected mayor, and the longest serving mayor from 2001-08.

Don't you find it amusing that my narrow, racist Australian mind completely failed to register him as an example?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 16, 2010 08:10 AM
536
... and another thing Iqram.
- you came onto the board as a troll.
- you got no real bites
- when confronted with a few home truths (including that you weren't taken particularly seriously, despite your own self-congratulatory statements), you've chucked a hissy fit.

Grow up.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 16, 2010 07:37 AM
535
Iqram - you're still missing the point entirely. Either you've swallowed the spin put out by the likes of Gautam Gupta and propagated by the Indian media, or you're being deliberately obtuse. I'm not sure which.

So, once again, this is a law and order issue with minor racist overtones being spun into a racial issue for political means. It's not about the number of hours students are able to work, it's about participants in a Permanent Residency scam attempting to hold the Australian Government hostage by playing the race card.

At the moment, you're just another long-distance Indian refusing to accept the views of Indian Australian citzens in favour of the views put out by those trying to pressurise the government (that happen to fit your own prejudices).

Now before you get all excited again, take some time to read ALL the posts below by Indian Australians. I know, I know, it'll take a while, and it would be much more comfortable to wallow in self-righteousness, but if you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you make the sacrifice. Some posts will be negative, but there will be plenty from Australian Indians quite happy in Australia.

I don't want to get into a 'whose got the most non-Anglo Saxons (or French) in politics' debate, because it would be simply childish. However, we did have a long-standing state leader of Lebanese origin, and currently have a state governor who was born in Sri Lanka. So let's not get too smugly superior about Canada eh?

Finally, Australian abrupt manners may not suit many Indians (or even Canadians). Fair enough. However, it shows a clash of sensibilities rather than racism.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 16, 2010 07:12 AM
534
IQRAM
Re-read your own posts....civility is not your strong suit. Why , if Vancouver is paradise ( and it is indeed a lovely city) are about half the Canadian students in Australia actually of Indian origin?
Australia has very similar policies to Canada in respect of Multiculturalism ( except of course in respect of Quebec). Levels of crime are low in both countries. Both countries have issues with street crime. The rate of violent crime is about 1/20th that of India or the USA, per capita.
Read the posts here by well-educated long-term Indian residents of Australia....they contradict your delusional assessment of te country to which you have not even been
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 16, 2010 05:54 AM
533
PAUL:

I am beginning to see what my neighbours from Australia in Vancouver meant when they spoke of a lack of civility.

It's sad to see these attacks on Indians in what I and every other Indian I know took to be a friendly, decent country. What happened?
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 16, 2010 04:46 AM
532
Iqram
You are in serious and urgent need of medication...you are delusional
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 16, 2010 04:21 AM
531
The most ridiculous complaint I have seen in these postings in regard to what is happening is that the poor Indian chaps take "frivolous courses" like cooking and hairdressing. Their English is not that good either. Is Australian English good? Do they not say "myle" for "mail"?

Is that a reason for beating a guy to death? What heartlessness !
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 16, 2010 04:15 AM
530
ALAN, PAUL, RK:

I am geting the unpleasant and disappointing impression that, ceratainly compared to Canadians, Aussies are a small-minded people.

The issue here is simple: can some Indian lads, nearly all hard-working guys, go about their lives in peace and safety or can't they. Do they have to be subject to the attacks of mindless hoodlums?

That's all.

If anything like this happened in Canada the reaction of the majority community would be so different. They would not try to make excuses for the hooligans by saying the Indians smell or talk too loud or some of them hang around girls, etc. They would say: This kind of inhuman behaviour has no business happening in Canada, period.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 16, 2010 03:47 AM
529
ALAN, PAUL:

On a point of fact, Lee Kuan Yew did call Australians the white trash of Asia. Please see this Sydney Morning Herald link if you doubt it:

http://www.smh.com.a...8/1174761533651.html

I do not endorse his remark.

I am pretty sure Australian behaviour in places like Thailand and Bali often has displeased the locals, including messing with women; as far as I know except for the terrible Islamic bombing in Bali aimed at all and sundry there have been no hooligan attacks on white Aussies as is faced by the luckless Indian boys in Australia these days.

This is nothing to be proud of and I hope decent Australians will call a halt to it.

ALAN raised the issue of how Indians are treated in Canada.

As an Indo-Canadian I call tell him proudly we are in a very fine situation in Canada. In British Columbia there has been an Indian Prime Minister and Attorney-General. There are prominent Indians in politics, participating without a trace of selfconsciousness. The level of integration of the Indian and Asian communities in Canadian life astonished me when I first encountered it and led me to move to Canada.

There are the occasional racial incidents as will happen in any country, but noone is in state of fear from rampaging thugs as in Australia.

I have several neighbours who came to Canada from Australia and the reason they give is that they disliked the impoliteness of Australian life, the lack of civility. One of them said to me Vancouver is ten times better that Melbourne. Canadian good manners continue to astonish and delight me. Everyone can learn from it. Maybe the Aussies especially.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 15, 2010 08:04 PM
528
Ikram
Lee Kwan Yew has said no such thing about autralians. I think you might be thinking of a near neighbour who failed to get into med school in australia and has held a grudge for 50 years. Anyway, Harry Lee is hardly a role model for anyone. An authoritarian regime, totally crushing and dissent, a one-party state, deals with the drug barons of Burma, a judiciary influenced by politicians, a lick-spittle for China which abandoned Taiwan in na flash.......Lee Kwan Yew's opinion.....no thanks, whatever in might be
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 15, 2010 04:39 PM
527
Iqram - if you think I took what you said at all seriously, you've another thing coming. As I said repeatedly, you've just come across as a raving dill - unfortunately not too disimilar to many Indians.

Now, instead of coming across as silly and ignorant, you're coming across as arrogant and ignorant. Thinking you can teach me anything at all about the Ausralian Aboriginal situation, Australian history and land ownership is laughable. At a base level, these are issues taught in our schools and continually being discussed in the media. It really only highlights your prejudices about Australians that you think otherwise.

The situation in Canada regarding Indians and migrants generally sounds very similar to Australia. I wonder why you think it's so very different?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 15, 2010 01:05 PM
526
ALAN:

I have read your post 423 and found it interesting.

I am not claiming every Indian in Australia is a saint. Some do ill-advised things, no doubt. It would help if they were warned not to.

I live in Vancouver, Canada, and what I find here is that while there are some Indian gangsters and reckless drivers and other louts, no-one takes it out on the peaceful Indian population or blames it.

Every community will have its fools and louts. I doubt if White Australians always behave "appropriately" with women. Ask the Aborigines.

Thanks for the hilarious link about Pauline Hanson thinking of moving to Britain! That gave me a good laugh. From sunny Queensland to cold and grey Britain! She will soon discover what a fool she has made of herself. In Australia she is somebody. In the UK she will be a nobody in a miserable clammy climate. It will be baco to Oz in a flash!
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 15, 2010 06:54 AM
525
Iqam - you still haven't read my post #423 have you(particularly the last paragraph)?, you complete dill.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 15, 2010 05:53 AM
524
Alan

Cheer up, mate!

You can't take a joke, can you

I was pulling your leg about Indians having a right to Australia because Aborigines are Indian by origin. i just meant to open your eyes a bit. Whites have no more right to Australia than anyone else.

Cheer up about Indians. they are a decent lot, given the chance. They are a democratic country; they like cricket and hockey. Just see the second generations of
Indo-Australians - they are just Aussies like everybody else.

Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. Let Aussies leave these Indian lads alone to earn a few pennies. that's all I am saying.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 15, 2010 04:56 AM
523
If you do read the readers comments in the link below, perhaps you'd also like to consider that this Outlook article claims that One Nation has gained ground. Really? What else about Australia has the Outlook article distorted?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 15, 2010 04:40 AM
522
To people convinced that all Australians are white supremisists baying for non-white blood, have a look at the readers comments on the story below.

These are in response to the news that Pauline Hanson is migrating to England. Hanson was the politician who was kicked-out of mainstream politics in the 1990s and founded the One Nation party referred to in the Outlook article.

http://www.theage.co...e-20100214-nzgr.html
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 15, 2010 03:41 AM
521
Seriously Iqram, you're raving. Take a chill pill.

Try reading the responses below, including the many from Indian Australians. If they don't help you understand the issues and you still want to start a war, well, there's nothing more I or anyone else can do for you.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 14, 2010 07:40 PM
520
ALAN:

Is it in you even to notice the sheer contemptible GUTLESSNESS, arrant cowardice of those rednecks who are murdering Indians in Australia today?

They know very well, these miserable thugs, that the Indians are unlikely to defend themselves strongly for fear of being deported after racist police accuse them of overreacting or aggression. They know these immigrants living in fear of deportation are easy meat.

Is that white "gutsiness"?
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 14, 2010 07:31 PM
519
ALAN:

I found your long reply interesting from several angles.

How ironic that when it comes to your own lot you are quick to find whingeing excuses: thus you whine that the redneck criminals dumped on the Aborigines (people of Indian descent, note) by the British had broken the law to survive during the Industrial Revolution.

So it's OK for rednecks to do what they have to do to survive....What about Indians in Australia, then? They at least nearly all are admitted to be working hard to earn their crust of bread. Is that your complaint? That they have not had the "guts" to resort to criminality unlike the forebears of the white invaders of Australia?

How ironic that you boast white invaders of Australia are proud of their criminal origins and coinvicted status. Is that why you are now failing to convict the criminals who are murdering defenceless Indian lads? Because you are reluctant to have too many new members of your elite fraternity of convicts?

And how ironic again that if an Indian (blood brother of the Aborigine)ever commits a crime in Australia, you will not invite him to join the national elite because of that gutsy feat, but deport him !
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 14, 2010 06:16 PM
518
ALAN:

I didn't need to be told rednecks are proud of being of convicted stock. i could tell by their behaviour.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 14, 2010 06:13 PM
517
ALAN:

The Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC)has reported that new genetic findings show Australian Aborigines are of Indian origin.

The ABC report can be accessed on this link:

http://www.abc.net.a...09/07/24/2635149.htm

Indians have a far better right to Australia than beer froth spitting rednecks.

It is the whites who are invaders of Australia, not the Indians. The Indians are merely brothers of the Aborigines.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 14, 2010 04:59 PM
516
Well said Alan. And do not forget Mr Iqram, since your heart seems to bleed so much for the Aborigines, that India was also invaded by Muslims so that by your logic you and your ilk have no right to be living in India.
Ali
Panchkula, India
Feb 14, 2010 04:23 PM
515
There was a recent study of job discrimination in major Australian cities. A professor sent thousands of fake resumes with Anglo-Saxon, Middle Eastern, Chinese, and Italian surnames. The extent of discrimination in lower end jobs such as waiting and data entrying was shocking. Keep in mind the resumes showed that the applicant graduated high school in Australia. So these fictional applicants knew English.

"Anglo-Saxon names more likely to get interviews Chinese jobseekers need to send out twice as many applications to get interview Sydney bosses most biased
EMPLOYERS are far less likely to interview a person with a Chinese, Middle Eastern or Aboriginal name for a job even if their CV is identical to someone with an Anglo-Saxon name.

And Sydney bosses discriminate more than those in Melbourne or Brisbane, a new study using 4000 fake CVs shows, reports The Australian."

http://www.news.com....ekers-with-anglo-...

What was most shocking was that the study showed ITALIANS were even discriminated against. I think Australia has a much more difficult time absorbing immigrants than the US.

"To get the same number of interviews as an applicant with an Anglo-Saxon name, a Chinese applicant must submit 68per cent more applications, a Middle Eastern applicant must submit 64 per cent more, an indigenous applicant 35 per cent more and an Italian applicant 12per cent more," Professor Leigh said.

Chinese jobseekers needed to send 92 per cent more job applications than those with an Anglo-Saxon background to secure an interview in Sydney, while Middle Eastern applicants needed to post 80 per cent more resumes."
Choice
City, Australia
Feb 14, 2010 01:20 PM
514
Jahaz mate, before there's a touche, you have to actually make sense, not just ramble away.

If you want to dispel some of that cloud of ignorance of yours, read my post #423 about what's going on in Melbourne (what you want to go to war over, you silly goose).

If you want to understand why unsophisticated Indians such as yourself are exaggerating this issue, read post #479 by Ganesh Prasad.

Before I consign you to my 'too silly to post to file', here's a few things for your education. Firstly, the few Australians who have convict ancestry are proud of it. The convicts were Irishmen rebelling against British rule, and impoverished people who broke the law to stay alive during the Industrial Revolution. The convicts therefore were the people in Ireland and Britain who had the spirit to rebel against the unfair system set-up by the English upper class. The gutless dregs were left behind, and form the lower class English of today. Perhaps you should think about that in the context of the help so many Indians provided to the English in enslaving India.

If you've read those posts, you may be ready for a bit more enlightenment. I believe the unsophisticated Indians such as yourself are conflicted. The nationalist in you is deeply ashamed of your enslavement by England, yet your social fabric worships 'whiteness'. Australia gives you the perfect opportunity to resolve this conflict. You convince yourself all Australians are white people. You also convince yourself that all these Australians are convict descendants. Then you can satisfy your nationalism by raving against Australians as the enslaving race, but you're less troubled by 'our' whiteness because we 'are all' just descendants of convicts. BTW – you knew the US was a dumping ground of convicts as well didn't you?

End of lesson, you silly man.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 14, 2010 06:45 AM
513
ALAN:

I referred to the ugly beer swilling and swearing culture of low class Australians. Touche?

Canada is being Indianised, and that makes Canadians feel happy.

I think the same is on its way for Australia. These attacks are just Australia's teething troubles in its process of eventually happy Indianisation.

Indian troops died to defend Australia, which belongs to Aborigines, not to redneck invaders like you.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 14, 2010 03:45 AM
512
In #508 I referred to India's ignorant and over-excitable masses. In support of that statement we have Mr Jahaz contribution:

"2) take military steps to discipline Australia.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 13, 2010 07:56 PM
511
PAUL brays:

"Australia made a terrible mistake in changing India to a category 4 country which led to a dramatic increase in the number of students coming..."

Britain made a terrible mistake when it decided to dump its convicted criminals on Australia's hapless native Aborigines. "They keep coming, these criminals!", the poor Aborigines must have said.

The British Empire or Vampire also built up Australia by ruthlessly plundering India. So the Indians coming to Australia today are merely collecting a small part of the compensation Australia owes India.

Indian troops died in wars to defend the British Vampire and it junior Vampires like Australia.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 13, 2010 07:10 PM
510
PAUL, ALAN:

Lee Kuan Yew, the very distinguished and respected elder statesman of South-East Asia and Prime Minister of Singapore, called Australians (I quote him), "The white trash of Asia."

The native population of Australia - what is left of it after centuries of genocide - will no doubt agree.

As for Indians, there are two simple, easy steps the Indian Government can take to make Australians totally respectful:

1) detain Australians in India until violence against Indians in Australia ends

2) take military steps to discipline Australia.

No other way with the kind of people Lee Kuan Yew spoke of.

Scaria Verghese no doubt agrees with me.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Feb 13, 2010 11:30 AM
509
Rakesh
I find any form of racism abhorrent, whether it takes the form of verbal abuse or violence ( or more subtle forms of discrimination). Australia made a terrible mistake in changing India to a category 4 country which led to a dramatic increase in the number of students coming for short courses in vocational disciplines rather than higher education. Every university in Australia knew that this change would be a disaster and yet the govt persisted with it. Mr Gupta, the self-styled, unelected spokesperson for FISA, has now become something of a celebrity with some sectors of the Australian media ( in particular, The Australian) and yet many Indian students are very doubtful about his motives. For example, his website, in it's guide to Australian universities lists only 7 ( of 38), all of them in Melbourne. For some reason his motivation appears to be sometnjing to do with a power-base in Melbourne ( as as been alluded to by other posters). Now we have the NSW premier announcing that Sydney is a safer destination and is sending a Minister to India to promote that. I would prefer to see a delegation of Indian police come to Australia to look at the issue first-hand. Not journalists....with, in the case of this magazine, an establised agenda. The Indian High Commission is hopless, perhaps as a consequence of resourcing, in looking after the intersts of Indian students ( in stark contrast to the Chinese) but to have Mr Gupta become the smi-official voice of India is potentially disatrous ( The same Mr Gupta who was quooted as saying " now they're burning us alive" in respect of the self-immolation in Melbourne)
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 12, 2010 04:16 AM
508
'Jack' is a funny name for an Indian. And it's c'est, from ce-est.

This problem will be sorted when the fake students are packed-off home as the federal government is doing now. Hopefully we've learnt our lesson and minimise our engagement with India from now on - including selling uranium. We should never encourage nuclear weapons in the hands of such a populist-prone polity.

India's democracy is often given as a positive for it's relationship with the West. But in fact, with its ignorant over-excitable masses and it's corruption, it's the last place that should be a democracy. We're better off dealing with China.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 11, 2010 11:18 AM
507
And in response to Allan's statement about proof of racism! Yesterday the Current Affairs shows ran a story about the illegal activities of 16 companies with respect to Home Insulation and showed most of their names. The names varied and a majority were caucasian names. However, only one contractor was singled out and guess what nationality he was? Indian, of course! Now I read the Current Affair show's listings and only two out of sixteen companies were non caucasian and the only one showed on television was, naturally, an Indian! Considering the problems at the moment with Indians, I am sure the news media could have been more sensible and used another nationality. However, they chose not to. So what does that tell us? It blatantly shows that irrespective of who or what commits an erroneous act, even criminal, the Indian will always be the one to be shown. Such acts by the most watched media does not augur well and leads to people affirming their beliefs that Indians are a target in Australia. A balanced show with one from a couple of nationalities could have laid such notions to rest. But, se la vie! Racism will remain until such time as the sheep ensure they are counted and raise their voices and be heard - not by Governmental lip service but in action. Let me finish it off with an excerpt from the Australian Race Relations Commissioner's media release six months ago where he warned where we were heading and urgent action was required: "Attacks against international students in Australia are disturbing and should sound alarm bells for the Australian community about the life threatening extremes to which racial prejudice can extend, Race Discrimination Commissioner Tom Calma said today.

Commissioner Calma said he was appalled by reports of the cowardly and violent acts that have been perpetrated, most recently, on international students from India."

Whu not check out what students in India have to say at url:

http://www.indiaeduc...yourVoice/index.aspx

for broader horizons.
jack
Sydney, Australia
Feb 11, 2010 10:55 AM
506
The more I read, the more I think of New Zealand and its sheep. The sheep in New Zealand are let to slaughter after being fattened and fed. The same seems to apply to some people who leave India for greener pastures, get fed and treated like the New Zealand sheep and are treated like sub humans and slaughtered. Difference? I find none. They just play into racist hands instead of Kiwi farmers! Everyone know that there is a problem, and it has to be resolved by non-sheep raising their voices and being heard in order that injustices are put to an end and people from all walks of life have the equality and fairness that they deserve. However, it appears that the sheep outnumber the non-sheep who stand up for what they believe in and there lies the problem of why such matters drag on for longer than they should. Just a lack of guts and moral fortitude while they fatten in a world they have just come to and where they get more than they can at home. But remember, fattened cows are always the first ones to go to the slaughterhouse. Being placid and ignoring issues only creates worse situations at a later date whereby acting at the start shortens the misery. You do not wait until you are death's door to see a doctor and cure the problem and the symptoms. You go for the cure at the start if you want to survive. Having said that I reiterate: "It is fair to say that Indians should not boycott Australia because of current events but should ensure they are heard and racism against Indians from all walks of life, Students, Business and Visitors, should cease and the Government finally take into account the Indian voices and amend legislation accordingly."
jack
Sydney, Australia
Feb 09, 2010 04:17 PM
505
@Rakesh
I certanly wasn't calling you arrogant.

I was refering to the 'students' who use the students visas as a step to permanent residency with no intention to study.

The 20 hour work limitation is there to ensure that the students are studying full time to get the qualifications that are the price of gettng Permanent Residency. It's there to stop the students using the visa as a migration scam. Yet the same people who are using the visa as a scam are complaining that the work limitation is getting in the way of their scam. That's who I'm calling arrogant.

I'm not sure you're entirely right about the financial guarrantee. It's there to ensure the 'student' doesn't become a financial burden on Australia in the context of their visa requirement - which is not working more than 20 hours. If a student can't support themself within the 20 hours work, they should be using the financial guarrantee. Remembering as well students are allowed to work unlimited hours during holidays.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 09, 2010 10:05 AM
504
@ Alan

There is no arrogance in stating the facts and the fact is that the 20 hour work permit is not a top up but a part of the Visa granted.

The financial status shown back home by these students is to ensure that students have funds for contigencies and meeting their course fees. (btw they are allowed to show properties as financial backing) now they wouldn't use that for living here or eating here.....ofcourse. That's why that 20 hour permit was given - I am not complaining but trying to give you the picture why Indian students get trapped when they face such people at lonely places......

You might have an insured car with no access to claims but you would still get pissed off if someone scratches it at a parking lot.....wouldn't you? even though you can get it repainted through your insurance - it works the same way.
Rakesh
Sydney, Australia
Feb 09, 2010 04:25 AM
503
@ Rakesh.

I suspect the 20 hour work restriction was in place to help ensure that only genuine students were entering the country.

Whatever the reason, 'students' are required to demonstrate they have enough money prior to coming to Australia for study. The 20 hours work is just a 'top-up'.

The 'students' knew this restriction before they came because they would have had to demonstrate their financial status. Why the complaint afterwards then? It can only be because they are flouting the immigration act in just the way it was intended to prevent. And then they complain about it! The arrogance is breath-taking.

I have no sympathy on that account whatsoever. Particularly if that gripe is one of the reasons they're sabotaging Australia's overseas reputation.

And by the way - you've been here 3 years and haven't heard Englishmen referred to as pommie-whingers, or them told "well if you don't like it, go home"?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 08, 2010 10:18 AM
502
David Morgan, I don't think any Australian has denied that some of these attacks are racially motivated.

It is a disgrace that Indians are being attacks (having said that, I would like to some some more evidence to support India's claims that their citizens are being singled out).

However, to simply assume all these attacks are racist, as the is the Indian medias want, is to create a smokescreen and will mean we miss the real underlying issues - rising street crime, dodgy learning institutions, immigration scams, new immigrant orientation, and yes, racism (although rabid jingoism in our youth brought about by the commercialisation of ANZAC day and Australia Day seems more likely).
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 08, 2010 08:35 AM
501
@ Alan

I absolutely agree with you. That is what is bothering people like me & Ganesh, who are settled here and are aware of the situation both in Australia and India.

Last week itself I was discussing this with a few fellow Indians and I made a guess that behind the scenes of all this is something which no one is talking about - may be uranium sale issue to India. It might be the spark that ignited all this.

And I can't agree more with the way things have taken shape it has done great damage to the bialateral relationship and both the economies.

I think the issue wasn't attacks but the frustration the indian students (& other International students) were having due to restrictions on their work / dodgy colleges / residency applications and concessions in travel etc. If a few of those concerns were taken care of then the frustration among that group of students would have been lesser. That's my point of view - imagine an Indian student (with working rights of 20 Hrs / week) is returning home at midnight after working at a restraunt / driving taxi and has earned around 100 bucks now he is stopped and asked for all the money he's got by some hooligans at the station he would resist for sure and will be beaten up - that's not racist that opportunistic but then these students have no where to go and complain - even police turned a closed ear towards them - all this happened for a while and was picked up the politicians and media.

Now the question is how do you stop it, revive the harmony and move on. Action needs to be taken from both the sides and with a positive attitude of rebuilding the image - current spat of events is doing the reverse.
Rakesh
Sydney, Australia
Feb 08, 2010 08:32 AM
500
@ David Morgan

To me the fault was with the Howard government for setting-up a system open to corruption and abuse. Once in place, it gathered a momentum that led to the current situation.

In 2000, the Howard government put into place legislation that enabled ‘back door’ migration. People who claimed to be studying/have completed a course in one of a number of required trades could apply for Permanent Residency. As a result dodgy colleges were set-up (often owned by Indians offshore) to provide evidence of this study to enable migrants access to Permanent Residency. Not only did these colleges flout the legislation, they illegally pressured the ‘students’ for additional funding.

The legislation resulted in a flood of migrants (mainly from India) who used the system to gain access to Australian residency. Because the legislation was poorly controlled, the requirements to complete courses were often ignored or given lip-service. The so-called students, under financial pressure, took all sorts of low-end jobs such as convenience store work and taxi driving, and lived in poor neighbourhoods, resulting in high risk of robbery and assault. Also, because in many cases the limited work allowances for Indian students were being flouted, they tended to carry their money with them, making them worthwhile targets. The sudden influx of Indians into poorer areas was noted and resented by others in those areas.

In 2009, the Rudd government acknowledged that rather than producing the semi-skilled workers it was intended to, the student legislation was resulting in poorly skilled migrants with limited English entering Australia. In January, March, and May, successively stronger measures were put in place to address this failure. The May changes required greater English abilities and tests for the skills the ‘students’ were supposedly learning. The Federation of Indian Students in Australia resented this threat to the back-door migration program. Because they could hardly protest at requirements that they do the training they had agreed to do, the Federation instead used the assaults and robberies to attack the government for not protecting them, and added the racism link as added spice. This was picked-up by the Indian media and politicians and run with without question, particularly the racist angle. Given the notorious corruption in India, it would hardly be surprising if some of the money from the Indian-owned colleges didn’t lubricate this outcry.

The Rudd government’s review of the legislation conducted last year is apparently finished, with a result in shutting-down the overseas vocational training/immigration system.

The response of the Indian student federation will be interesting.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 08, 2010 07:30 AM
499
A common thread here from Australians is that it's not really the fault of the Australian people that Indian are people being bashed in our poorer suburbs, because it is claimed we're not really racist. It seems the fault lies instead with our government for letting Indians come here in the first place...
David Morgan
Sydney, Australia
Feb 08, 2010 05:44 AM
498
"Would they say the same stuff to a student from swtizerland or Germany ? NO."

Actually Rakesh, I think that's exactly what would happen. There'd be references to nazis and Germany's tretment of Turks. I think you've fallen into the trap described by Ganesh.

Australians may have over-reacted, and perhaps I have as well. But perhaps you'd like to think about it from our perspective? This story has made headlines around the world, and enough mud has been slung to have stuck, damaging our reputation. I wonder what this has cost our economy, apart from the students who won't come? What about the skilled and professional Indian (and other) migrants who have been scared-off? Even typing this now makes be extremely angry.

And remember it wasn't just the media, but senior Indian government ministers who perpetrated this.

If Australians have reacted strongly, do you really wonder why?

Anyway, the students attempt to deflect the government from reforms of the overseas student system started last year has failed completed - see below. I hope they're happy with the damage they've done to the Indian/Australian relationship - and the boost they've given to the marginal racist groups in Australia.

http://www.theage.co...s-20100207-nksr.html
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 08, 2010 05:15 AM
497
@ Paul, Don't feel so disgusted mate. I understand this Debate has no end but its good to read various views on an issue from people who had different experience.

I have been living here for 3 years (and mind it I didn't come here as a student). I really like this country, it is indeed better than India on many counts and I also accept the unbalanced reporting from Indian Media but what I am not happy about is the way some of the Aussies have reacted to it.

If Indian Media acted immaturely then people here who tell Indians to go back if they don't feel safe here or who start talking about problems in India is equally immature.

Would they say the same stuff to a student from swtizerland or Germany ? NO.

Attacks are wrong anywhere in the world, be it India or Ausstralia we should all condemn them. Labelling them as Racist is another thing and I also DON'T agree with the kind of reporting that is happening in India but your last post sounds a bit disappointing.

Regards
Rakesh
Sydney, Australia
Feb 08, 2010 04:25 AM
496
[an open letter from the Australian government to Indian vocational students]

Dear Indian vocational student.

The Australian government unfortunately admits that it is unable to keep you safe in this country. This is due to the racist, blood thirsty, bad genes of the Australian people inherited from convicts. Nothing can be done about this.

The Australian government therefore has decided to send you all back to the safety of India. Because we care so much for your safety, we have also decided to give the opportunity for Mr Gautam Gupta to accompany you. Through his role as spokesperson of the Federation of Indian Students in Australia, Mr Gupta has shown he is deeply concerned for your welfare, and we are sure he will jump at this opportunity to continue in this role.

We wish you all the best in your lifelong dreams to become hairdressers and cooks, and hope you continue these pursuits for the benefit of all Indians.

Yours sincerely,

Kevin Rudd

PM Australia
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 05:30 PM
495
@Paul -

Timelines on changes to the overseas students regulations are interesting in regard to your question.

From January 2009, in response to findings that the job outcomes for former overseas students trained in Australia were poor, largely on account of English language deficiencies, the government began changing its skill selection priorities and procedures:

January 2009 - a new ‘critical skills’ list was introduced that excluded hairdressing and cooking, 2 previous staples for vocational students seeking permanent residency qualifications.

March 2009 - other trades were removed from the critical skills list

May 2009 - the English language minimum requirement for trade occupations was increased and a skills test was be instituted.

Coincidentally(?) -

Despite Indians being attacked throughout 2008, in late May and June 2009 Indian student groups in Melbourne and Sydney held protest rallies against violence. The Indian media also started highlighting the issue at that time.

Why did the attacks suddenly become so much more unacceptable and frightening to Indian students just as the crackdown on vocational students began, one wonders?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 02:49 PM
494
Where was Mr Krishna and Outlook India during this spate of killngs in the US? Not a word. It was left to the state govt. It went on for months. Mr Krishna would not be interested......too busy brown-nosing the Bush administation
Software engineer from AP found dead in US

Lalit K Jha in Washington | January 22, 2009 11:47 IST




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An Indian software engineer from Andhra Pradesh was found dead in his apartment in Indianapolis in the United States on Tuesday evening.

Muthyala Purushottam, 27, was found dead in his apartment in a south eastern neighbourhood of Indianapolis City on Tuesday evening, police said.

This is the latest in the series of deaths involving students and professionals from the south Indian state in the US over the past few months.

A resident of Anantapur in Andhra Pradesh, Purushottam worked with Triton Infotech in Indianapolis.

Purushottam, son of police sub-inspector M Nagalingam, went to the US two years ago and was living with his wife Praveena, who also hails from Anantapur.

An Indianapolis police official, requesting anonymity as she is not authorised to speak to the media, told PTI that the police received an emergency call at about 6.15 pm.

The body was first found by his wife, also a software techie, who then alerted the neighbours, who in turn called the police, the official said.

Upon reaching the apartment, the police found the deceased lying on the floor and there appeared to be some marks on his neck. He was immediately taken to the hospital. The autopsy report is awaited, she said.

The official said that while initial investigation has indicated that it is a case of suicide, the police is continuing with its investigation to confirm the reasons and cause of his death and also the circumstances under which it happened.
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 01:14 PM
493
Varun @478 "Sumera in Melbourne, what do you think the Indian government or media should say? That there's no problem at all? "

No Varun, where in any of my posts have I implied that? The point made was of the lack of balanced (non-accusatory, self righteous) reporting.

It is like Ganesh says - If you're proven wrong, you just brazen it out and shout louder
Sumera
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 12:21 PM
492
K Nair
Australians don't want to work? Australian unemployment 5% cf USA 11%. USA budget deficit 1.5 TRILLION, owes China 800 BILLION. I don;t think Australia needs a lesson in financial managemnet from the USA or on equity from India ( the country with the largest gap between the wealthy and the poor. We are doing okay without gratuitous advice, thanks all the same
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 11:47 AM
491
To Ganesh C Prasad/ Sydney, Australia (comment 479).

Thank you Ganesh for your comment 479, though reading it makes me a bit sad... sad for my birth country, to see such a cogent, prudent & intelligent Indian living & contributing so far away.

Regards.
RK
Sydney, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 11:39 AM
490
I remember a meeting with the VP of one of the best known Australian MNC's,way back in 1983/84, in his Sydney highrise office. Official matters having been disposed off, the conversation turned to socil matters of Australia - he called it a big expanse of land endowed with immense wealth loaded with opportunities, with comparativeley negligible population; they are too wealthy, why should they work, was the attitude. Even he was an American, not a 'local'..

Into such a society, expatriates hungry for higher education, career/business building, etc. are drawn in droves, instilling fear of reduction in the priveleges enjoyed by locals. It is said researchers have connected Michaele Obama's lineage from a genuine African slave of the past ; the lesson is, no Australian street goonda can block evolution.
KSC Nair
Indianapolis, United States
Feb 06, 2010 11:23 AM
489
Australians shouldn't be too surprised by this series of articles, even though they plumb new depths of jouralistic duplicity even by the usual Indian-media standards of hysteria and xenophobia. This has happened before: a few years ago 2 Singaporean Chinese were murdered in their apartment close to the University of New South Wales. The Singaporean and Indian papers screamed about racist Aussie murder for weeks until the police charged the(Indian origin Singaporean) flat-mate with the murders. After a long-trial and appeal, he( Ram Tiwari) was recently sentenced to 48 years.......one of the longest sentences in NSW history ( the judge described one of the killings as an exceution). It was a disagreement about money. Needless to say, the coverage in India of te trial was zero. Prematurely screaming racism about every crime is unwise, as has been shown in the recent events in Australia. Some cases may be racist, others are certainly not. This magazine chose their interviewees very selectively. They could have used an example from Tasmania...where electors voted into Parliament an Australian of Indian origin , ie preferring to be represented by someone whose name is Singh rather than the loony-right fanatics chosen for interview by these 'journalists' ( the loony party got less than 1% of the vote. Ms Singh is now a minister in the govt. Of course, a focus on that would not suit the editor's agenda
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 10:12 AM
488
Not having a good day - Dr Natteri Chandran, not Chandra. And the link didn't work. Hope this does -

http://www.tewfi.org...n_Indian_article.pdf
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 10:00 AM
487
Oops - of course I meant Pakistan/Australia 20/20.

Also to Peter - the Indian Dr I mentioned way down below somewhere as someone I respect immensely is Natteri Chandra, who founded The East West Foundation of India (TEWFI), a charitable and educational organization committed to helping those in need in India. He also set up The East West Centre (TEWC), dedicated to helping the mentally unwell among the poor and disadvantaged in Australia, and The East West Overseas Aid Foundation (TEWOAF) in Australia. (http://www.charinda...tter%20v2%20i6.html)

I think your stereotype of Indian health care professionals is plain wrong.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 09:52 AM
486
I think we could have done without that rant Peter. I was hoping these posts would finish with Ganesh's post #479, the best I've read. But since it's going on, I'd just like to say, did anyone watch the Pakistan/India 20/20? Firstly, after the game, there was obviously a good relationship between the teams.

Secondly, did others notice the Indians in the crowd waving both the Indian and Australian flags? That's what modern Australia is all about. People who migrate here and commit to the country, don't forget their heritage, but leave their prejudices and squabbles behind. That way Australians of all backgrounds get to share the the good parts of cultures from all over the world (including India's rich heritage).

This spat with India has unfortunately given oxygen to the minority of people (like Pauline Hanson) who don't believe in multicultural Australia. They can point at the nonsense coming out of India and say - look, we don't want those liars here. Send all ungrateful Indians home. And there will be just a few more people who agree with them.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 09:29 AM
485
Hi Peter Wignall

The possibility of an Indian influx of student/migrants to Australia. WAKE UP AUSTRALIA- it is your clarion call, PETER WIGNALL.


Just imagine, hypothetically speaking of course, the sea level is rising at an alarming rate now and an exodus of asylum seekers from low-lying Pacific nations are coming in their rickety boats to Australia. Where else could they go? What would Australia do? When a trickle of Afghanistan asylum seekers came to Australia, xenophobic former Prime Minister Howard sent them to Pacific nations for processing. Where would Australia send the exodus of asylum seekers from Pacific nations? Wouldn’t it be food for thought?
Scaria Varghese
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 08:38 AM
484
It is so silly to blame the Indian Media as even an Australian Politician has, of being volatile. Or to say it is alarmist.
Some British newspapers, eg: the SUN are equally so and it is owned by "A once upon a time" Australian Right Winger named, Rupert Murdoch!
The press lives on "alarmist."
I am so glad that the Indian press has opened up the debate.
No Australian has got the guts or they've been Knobbled by our MR RUDD. Such is OUR Democracy. Perhaps we could learn a thing or two from India?
Peter Wignall
Bisbane, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 07:55 AM
483
Violence against Indians in Australia: Mr Rudd is wrong! So are all the Politicians and Newspapers stifling the debate.
We do not want 10 million Indian migrants coming to unbalance our population.
Last year the Office for National Statistics UK said, “if current trends continued, the UK population would rise by 10 million to more than 71.6 million by 2033 - the fastest rise in a century.”
Spreading people around the World is NOT the solution.
GDP; Gross Domestic Produce is the mantra of most Politicians and all Businessmen.
It is pursued at any cost while they live. It must be stopped.
It increases World Population which is a “CATCH-22” situation.
In 50 years the Tripling of World Population along with GDP, Factory Production, Infrastructure requirements, Loss of Forests, Increase in Physical and Mental Stress of all Fauna and Flora, is of no benefit to anything on Earth.
Why is it wrong to control World Population?
In a World with a 1950’s Population, there would be a World with one third of our present problems.
Imagine it: Fish for all, Jobs for all, Health for all, and No Global Warming.
Take the plunge: Two children per married couples maximum, then sterilisation of both partners.
Peter Wignall
Bisbane, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 07:47 AM
482
The possibility of an Indian influx of student/migrants to Australia.
WAKE UP AUSTRALIA. Never mind Global Warming!
More than a third of species assessed in a major international biodiversity study are threatened with extinction, scientists have warned.
These included 21% of all known mammals, 30% of amphibians, 70% of plants and 35% of invertebrates.
At what point will society truly respond to this growing crisis?
Professor Jonathan Baillie,
Zoological Society of London.
This is caused entirely by the increase in Human Population!
It cannot go on. Spreading people around the world is NOT the answer.
Therefore: Increasing Australian population with migrants from INDIA is not to be allowed.
Peter Wignall
Bisbane, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 07:19 AM
481
Michael Edwards (Australia) ABC correspondent in Delhi. Blog about India.
“They have to worry about water and electricity shortages, putting food on the table, poverty, pollution, inequity … just surviving. So the fear of terrorism is almost exotic compared to the concerns of everyday living."
My comment on India:
India is a fascinating ancient civilisation with Social systems in places, unknown anywhere else in the World. “The Caste System” in particular.
If China had introduced such a system in 1945 it would have been condemned by the whole World!
Looking at India in the news and internet, it is lauded as the “Biggest Democracy” in the World.
It has the greatest gap between the rich and the poor of any Country, Democratic or otherwise, in the World.
Its people cannot and do not have the same Ethics or Morals of most Western or Australia citizens.
Example: It is believed most Indians who study Medicine abroad do not take their skills back to help their fellow Indians; they stay to earn fat wages in the country where they studied.
I have, over the years read horrendous articles about the Indian Health Service.
Below is taken from a letter to my friends in England.
Start-22-11-2005. I Wrote:
Another documentary about hospitals in India showed a father carrying a boy of 6 yrs with his intestine hanging out. They had been in a queue at a Hospital emergency department for 3 days! I do hope the film crew were able to help them. India is disgusting!! The only Charity I give to is Medicines Sans Frontieres. If only it could become totally HUGE and Global with money to build Hospitals and medical centres worldwide. All to be done with ‘their’ own Architects, Staff etc, to cut out filthy corruption.

Are there any Indian Nationals working for “Medicine Sans Frontieres,” for more than 12 months?

WE DO NOT HATE INDIANS. Your Country is so far removed from our own EGALITARIAN Society as can possibly be imagined.
The “RAJ” did not help! Indeed at that time most people in Britain were no better off but they have evolved, you have not.
Therefore WE DO NOT RESPECT your Country.
That is not Racism.
We have no trouble at all with older Indians who have settled here. We are very concerned about a possible influx causing an imbalance with the 144 Nationalities here already.
NAME ME AN INDIAN CITY with more than 50 differing Nationalities living there.
Peter Wignall
Bisbane, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 06:23 AM
480
Things are out of control over here in racist Australia.
Dr. Nair (Indian national) Sydney -The murder charge relates to the death of the 22-year-old woman in November.
Likely outcome: Going to Jail – cost to tax payers for the next 12 years around 500,000
An Indian taxi driver is facing charges over the bashing of a passenger who was knocked unconscious in a suburb here in Australia, media reports said on Thursday.
Likely outcome: conviction, fine, ticket back to the Punjab if we had any sense. Cost to the community, police time, court time, victim counselling and more than likely crime compensation.
NSW police had arrested three persons in connection with the murder of Rannoch Singh, a 25-year-old Indian man, whose burnt body, was found in the NSW town of Griffith on December, 29, 2009. Third man was arrested on the same day and will also be charged with Mr Singh's murder
All Indian Nationals
Likely outcome: Going to Jail if found guilty, probably get 20 years and out in 15.
Cost to taxpayers: 3 x 700,000 or 2.1 million over the journey
Cost to victim’s family – can’t be quantified – will more than likely get crime compensation
Singh, a 29-year-old Indian "student", turned up last month burned to a crisp, with a tale of having been attacked in Essendon by four racists with a can of petrol. Singh, 29, of Grice Crescent, Essendon, in the city's north, faced an out-of-sessions hearing early this morning ... charged with making a false report to police and criminal damage with a view to gaining a financial advantage."
Likely outcome: will more than likely get a massive fine and conviction. Again if we had any sense, straight onto a plane. No charge
Cost to community: Police time and Court time, and fire brigade time
Other Matters
In 2008, when Sukhraj Singh was almost bashed to death in a Sunshine shop.
Singh had been belted by an ethnic gang of whom the only one since publicly identified in court is Zakarie Hussein, a 21-year-old from Somalia.
Likely outcome: jail time – will cost us plenty, especially when the charged Hussein sings like a tweedy bird and dobs in the rest of his mates who will then spent time in jail with him.
Take the notorious bashing on the Werribee, of an Indian national last year
Check the CCTV vision and you could see what the police and journalists would not say - that the attackers seemed to include youths who weren't "white", and at least one who looked very Indian.
Don’t worry – these dudes will be caught and will be jailed. Allow at least a couple of 100 thousand for investigation court time etc.
Most of the reported robberies on Indian taxi drivers in the inner west in one six-month period were likewise by African gangs
Will catch those lads eventually – more court time and taxpayer money. Recommend removal from county when caught and charged. Likely outcome, community based order and wrap across the knuckles.
And here is the latest update: February 6, 2010
• TWO Victorian men gave alcohol to a 14-year-old girl one of them met on an internet chat service before they both raped her, a court has heard.
Ravinder Singh, 30, of Lalor, and Steven Handros, 18, of Thomas town, are charged with raping the girl at a house owned by Singh in Melbourne's north in September.
Should be an interesting trial – if proven guilty expect long jail term – 15 years x 2 –say 1.4 million
So here is the deal regarding the racist attitudes of Australians:
Feel free to falsely label this country as racists but take back your nationals and jail them in your own country at your cost. As we know this isn’t going to happen, sent cheque for upkeep
As a peace gesture for falsely accusing this country as being racist, take the Africans also. We will pay your daily rate of keeping them in one of your jails as this is far cheaper than jailing them here, where they have swimming pools, three square meals a day, television and internet and conjugal visiting rights for the occasional bonk. This is a good deal for both sides.
In the event that you have spare space in your Jails, we can also throw in Arab gang bangers, Viet drug dealers, and Indonesian people smugglers, Russian gangsters and Chinese Triad members As a special we will throw in some white boys so the deal doesn’t smell of racism.
And above all, make it Indian law that you are not allowed to get educated in Australia due to the nature of white Australian racism.
Save the taxpayers here a fortune and would put relationship back on even keel.
And above all, get a decent cricket side. The current one is pretty ordinary
Colonel
brighton beach, Australia
Feb 06, 2010 01:31 AM
479
Varun Shekhar says:
> Sumera in Melbourne, what do you think the Indian government or media should say? That there's no problem at all?

No Varun, you're engaging in some clever sleight of hand here. The behaviour that has enraged so many Australians (including myself, an Australian citizen of Indian birth) is accusation without proof.

It is absolutely right for the Indian media and government to highlight a problem or raise awareness of an issue, i.e., that Indian citizens seem to be targeted victims of violent attacks in some Australian cities. It is certainly true that the initial reaction of Australian officialdom was lethargic. They needed to be spurred into action.

However, it is *not* right to assume (without proof) that the reason for the attacks was racism. It is even worse to assume that an entire country is racist (again, without proof). Technically, it's called libel and many Indian journalists (including the reviled Arnab Goswami of TimesNow) should be in court facing libel charges and the prospect of a heavy fine.

i.e., it wouldn't be so much of an issue if mere 'exaggeration' or 'sensationalisation' (as you put it) was the problem. The real issue that enrages us is *unfounded* accusations of racism. Even today, the sections of the Indian community that have levelled these accusations are not willing to back down, apologise or otherwise admit that there is no evidence that the attacks are racist in nature and that Australia is a racist country.

You do raise an important point, though:
> If indeed the Indian government and media are 'exaggerating' or 'sensationalising' the recent attacks, then one major way of refuting these comments, is to interview and sample the concerned or target group: the recent crop of Indian students in Australia.

Yes, by all means, do interview them. And make sure you ask them a simple question: What was the ethnicity of their attackers? The lot back home may be surprised to learn that the Australian criminal class is as thoroughly multicultural (heh) as the rest of Australian society. Would you still believe Australia is a racist country (implying white supremacism) if it emerged that Indians were being targeted by criminal gangs made up of Lebanese, Pacific Islanders, Aboriginals and Sudanese in addition to white people?

I would blame Australia's culture of political correctness for not allowing vital (although sensitive) information like this to be made public. The police and press both suppress race-related information about criminals and suspected criminals because it could lead to racial prejudice (heh).

As Mr. Andrew Bolt writes (http://bit.ly/cKybuP),

"The racial identity of those thieving attackers, officer? Can't say, couldn't see. The ethnicity of the boys who bashed Singh, Mr Reporter? Didn't notice, won't write."

I don't always agree with Andrew Bolt, but this article of his is right on the money and I found its stinging irony deliciously entertaining.

No Varun, the real racism is elsewhere. The willingness to believe the worst of someone based not on their actual behaviour but on their ethnicity alone, is called racism. By accusing white Australians of inherent racism (with utter disregard to something called evidence), sections of the Indian community have been guilty of racism themselves. Can you see this? I don't think so. As another poster here said, Indians don't seem to do irony.

I'm not holding my breath expecting an apology, though. Although I'm proud of many aspects of my Indian culture, I know from 30 years of living there that the words "sorry" (and "excuse me", "please" and "thank you") are rarely used in public discourse.

If you're proven wrong, you just brazen it out and shout louder.

My piece of psychoanalysis:
It's well-known that dishonest people can't trust other people. They project their own deceitful thoughts onto other people and then assume ulterior motives on their part. I suspect Indians are so willingness to believe in white racism because Indians as a group are so damn conscious of skin colour. I think an Indian meeting a white person projects his own thoughts onto that person regarding himself, "Man, what a dark-skinned guy this is. He's inferior to me!" Then if the white person in question is anything but perfectly polite, the Indian goes, "Aha! I knew the guy was a racist! They're all racists, I tell you!"

Look in the mirror, my dear fellow Indians. The racist is standing right there.

Don't believe me? Conduct another interview of Indians living in Australia. Make sure you talk to:
1. People of dark skin
2. People belonging to Dalit or OBC (Other Backward Castes) groups
3. Women

Ask them in which country they are treated with dignity - India or Australia. The answer wouldn't surprise me, but it sure as hell may surprise a lot of people back home.

But as I said, I'm not expecting an apology anytime soon. India needs to grow up and mature a lot more before that will happen. As for me, I've been in Australia for 12 years, have grown considerably as a person since coming here and I absolutely love it here. I'm a proud Australian citizen and if you think I'm a "traitor" to India for speaking some unpleasant truths, I'm happy to wear that label.

Have a nice day.
Ganesh C Prasad
Sydney, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 07:43 PM
478
Sumera in Melbourne, what do you think the Indian government or media should say? That there's no problem at all?

A major point posters are missing is this: if indeed the Indian government and media are 'exaggerating' or 'sensationalising' the recent attacks, then one major way of refuting these comments, is to interview and sample the concerned or target group: the recent crop of Indian students in Australia. Don't interview or cite 2nd or 3rd generation Indo-Australians who are well settled, pretty secure and more or less accepted. Ask a large section of the new arrivals. If the vast majority of them say that everything is going well, they don't feel threatened, and they've never had a bad experience worth mentioning, then Australians would be correct to accuse the Indian government and sections of the media of exaggeration.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 05, 2010 07:09 PM
477
"Oh, Australia did support India's independence movement..."

Oops, so we did. Me bad. Thanks Paul."

Hmmmm, you could show that by citing Australian media commentary back in the 20's, 30's and 40's. And the pronouncements of the Australian government in that period. As for the allusion to the partition massacre, the British themselves are not innocent by a long shot. Their policy of constantly compartmentalising people into religions, and using the excuse of Hindu-Moslem discord to delay or deny independence, contributed in a big way to the tragedy of 1947.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 05, 2010 11:23 AM
476
"Oh, Australia did support India's independence movement..."

Oops, so we did. Me bad. Thanks Paul.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 11:01 AM
475
Oh, Australia did support India's independence movement, just as the post-war Labor govt supported decolonisation in many countries. India and Australia were co-sponsors of te newly-independent Indonesia's membership of the UN in 1949
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 10:50 AM
474
@ Anand Samy

Just curious to know what does Samy means in your Indian Name?
Rakesh
Sydney, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 10:43 AM
473
"What rubbish. India is a highly diverse, democratic country that accommodates all the various languages and ethnicities within its borders, as far as possible"

Why should we believe that when you refuse to believe what we (and Indian Australians) say about Australia?

"Incidentally, why didn't Australia support India's independence movement?"

Who knows - as you say, it was a long time ago. Maybe we stupidly believed the Poms when they said there'd be a godawful massacre among all those peace-loving Indians.

More likely we thought it was a matter better left between you and them.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 10:42 AM
472
@ Craig

I am not angry on all australians my friend but the ones who when confronted with something give arguments that check yourself first and justify the attacks.

And for your knowledge, India never invaded any country in the last 1000 years.

Talking about Pakistan, it was indus valley as you said and pakistan was made out of that and was a result of british rule - they left that partition as scar of their departure.

And all the hate you talk in Goa, Sikkim or be it any part of India itself is all fueled by few countries & politicians which do want India to live a peaceful & prosperous life and make money out of it.

I have friends in North East part of India - sikkim is one them and they tell us how chinese army people invade into India, dress up in Indian army uniform and do atrocities on locals then go back and then they fuel all those anger that Indian armed forces treat them badly and that's why all the anger.

AGAIN MY POINT - IF SOMEONE IS ACCUSED OF SOMETHING DENYING IT WITH THE ARGUMENT LIKE YOURS SHOWS THE INSECURITY WITHIN.

I am not calling all aussies but a handful (may be) are the ones who cause all these problems and then everyone has to bear the heat.

Things are not shaping up in the way they should.

Indian students come here for a better life and as you said its a beautiful country so we don't expect ourselves to get bashed by some cowards in parks / street / taxis and then told by others to shut up since it is even worse back home.
Rakesh
Sydney, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 10:15 AM
471
"You kill the natives in AP. The Goans hate you. In Darjelling they refer to you as the monkey people. In Sihkkim they despise you."

What rubbish. India is a highly diverse, democratic country that accommodates all the various languages and ethnicities within its borders, as far as possible. If there are idiots in those states who say the things you claim, they are a tiny minority. There are many more articulate folk in those places. Incidentally, why didn't Australia support India's independence movement? It's that racist mentality and culture again. It's probably much less now, but one can imagine how horrendous it was in the 30's, 40's and 50's.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 05, 2010 10:13 AM
470
I notice a large number of Indians, on this site and others, have experessed the shame they feel that has been brought upon them due to the behaviour of the Indian media and a handful of Indian ploticians on this, and the action of a few Indian criminals in Australia.

You are amongst the ones who should not to be ashamed, and you should hold your heads high for the fact you have faith in Australia and its people.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 09:43 AM
469
To whom it may concerned

By and large, media-print and electronic-have a tendency to sensationalise and exaggerate to their advantage, that is the nature of the beast; it happens in democratic countries like India and Australia. It is tolerable to an extent than compared to the Big Brother is controlling the media. At least we are living in democratic countries where we enjoy lots of fundamental rights which are denied in totalitarian countries like China.

I am not suggesting that the NYPD has completely obliterated violence on the streets of New York. Its zero tolerance policy coupled with the cops on beats has helped to reduce crimes dramatically.

This will be my last post on this matter and lots of bloggers have expressed their varying views. I feel the less said the better on this matter.
Scaria Varghese
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 09:38 AM
468
Today watching TV channels in india they are hunting for a news. I think the reporters are working overtime to find a news and interestingly they found out about the finance report given by macquarie bank where the guy sitting at the back was browsing the porn pics. what a joke. hey there are so many important news here in india and they want to pick this out of Australia. you morons....in particular times now. what a junk? yesterday one Indian minister gave a mouth full to mr. goswami the main anchor about his twisting tactics. what a shame India?? and the scroll at the bottom is mentioning about this article and requesting people to buy them as shelf life is only till this sunday...then....Ashamed to be an Indian...all i feel is i dont want to go to some other country and try to change them...if we like live there if not then get into the next plane and back home...
Anand Samy
Chennai / Melbourne, India
Feb 05, 2010 08:43 AM
467
Rakesh, why so angry?

You are from the Indus Valley in Pakistan. You took lands from the natives all over South Asia. You have all but wiped out the natives of the Andaman Islands, and the sub-continent.

You kill the natives in AP. The Goans hate you. In Darjelling they refer to you as the monkey people. In Sihkkim they despise you.

Return to your lands in Pakistan and give back all the wealth to the natives.

The typical Indain response is to tell Australians to go home. I am my friend. And I am loved, free, safe, happy and rich.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 08:15 AM
466
No doubt some are scared Jenny. But it's an interesting coincidence that this issue gained momentum just when the federal government started a review of the Overseas Student Act that controls the issue of permanent residency visas to overseas students is it not? A cynical person might think that this is a way of putting pressure on the Australian government not to crack down too hard on the visa scam.

In which case, at least some of the fear felt by Indian students may be blamed on whoever chose to exagerate the issue of general racism for political gain.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 07:54 AM
465
Hi, my name is Jenny, I live in Melbourne. All I can say is that I'm sorry that all of this is happening. I am just sorry its happening and I hope the government will finally step up and take care of this once and for all for everyone. I am sorry that Indian students feel (and are) so scared in my hometown. I wish it was not like this. I'm sorry.
Jenny
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 07:48 AM
464
and if you want a comparison with NYC, why is the homicide rate in the USA , per capita, about 20 times higher than Australia. India ranks #1
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 07:42 AM
463
Scaria
The Indian component of Australian 'export' of education to India is largely Indian-driven and owned ( as well as partly Nepalese and Australia). Have a look at the latest BRW rich list...you will see on it a name realted to the ownership of one of these colleges.
Students studying at Australian Universities seem to have very few problems. I concede that the Govt made a huge blunder in changing the visa regulations to allow this proliferation of vocational enrolments. But the nexus there is to PR. and individual students have taken that path.
No-one wants to see Indian students suffering or bashed, let alone murdered. At issue is the rapid-dog mentality of jouranlists such as those responsible for the one-sided, fear-inducing, xenophobic, disingenuous hysteria contained in this series of articles. Fortunately the fraudulent self-immolation story has been picked up by every news agency in the world, making Mr Krishna look like the moron he may very well be
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 07:21 AM
462
So you don't think these 'students' should actually have to study and pass their courses before getting residency Scaria?

Other skilled migrants have to demonstrate trade experience before they're allowed to migrate. Why shouldn't the vocational students have to demonstrate experience prior to getting a PR?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 06:54 AM
461
Hi Ian, Alan and Paul

Please read my previous blog 291 about what I have said on this matter.

My heart bleeds for your self-righteous gibberish here. It is time for you all to come down from the self-righteous high moral grounds that you have perched on.

There are sleaze- balls and undesirables everywhere and people are engaged in criminal activities on a quotidian basis world over, irrespective of colour or creed. A SYDNEY neurosurgeon, Dr.Nair is charged with malpractice and likewise other white Australian doctors have involved in malpractices in the past. An infamous white English doctor in England, with the sobriquet of doctor death, was on a killing spree-killed so many of patients. An Indian sleaze –ball at Essendon claimed that he was torched by some Australian youths and police arrested him for making false accusations for a fraudulent Insurance scam. Another Australian disgruntled nitwit bombed a Darwin insurance office and his criminality has some innocent victims. Do you want me to go on?

Immigration of students with the proviso of permanent residency is acting as a magnet for students to come to Australia for permanent residency in the pretext to study-any frivolous courses like hairdressings and so on. Australian governments’ motive is to perpetuate its 15 billion dollar educational industry. One thing most bloggers here didn’t shed light on is policing. In New York the NYPD has a zero tolerance for criminals and the undesirables who posses weapons of any kinds. Is it time the Victorian police ape the NYPD and declare a zero tolerance for criminals and the undesirables who possess weapons of any kinds? Why does a law abiding citizen to possess weapons of any kinds to go about doing his/her business, whatever they may be? Victorian police is arm strung by lack of police numbers. Its efficiency is second to none, exemplified by the speed with which it arrested the Melbourne millionaire Herman Rockefeller’s killers-within a week.
Scaria Varghese
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 06:21 AM
460
@ INDIAN MEDIA & ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE EVERY INDIAN BEATEN IN AUSSIE WAS A VICTIM OF RACISM:

I live in sydney and have not faced any racism (direclty). I agree with the fact that this country has a prob with voilence and Indian students serve as a soft target for some cowards on the streets. Media in India is not doing any good by reporting everything as Racism.

@ AUSSIE PEOPLE

PEOPLE IN AUS, WHO TELL INDIANS TO LOOK BACK AT INDIA FIRST OR GO BACK IF DON'T LIKE IT HERE - UNDERSTAND TWO THINGS FOR EVER -

1. THIS COUNTRY NEVER BELONGED TO YOU EITHER
(you came here and killed the original aussies and made them confined to their rural areas acquired their beautiful landscapes and made them your cities......no fault of yours since it is in your ROOTS to LOOT)

2. WHEN YOU CRITICISE INDIA TELLING INDIANS TO LOOK AT THEMSELVES FIRST.
Why do you forget that India was the most wealthy, peace loving and prosperous nation. Then came the british and it is what we see it today no more a happy nation. DOES THIS RAISE ANY QUESTIONS IN YOUR DUMB MIND????

ONE LESSON FOR EVERYONE - IF YOU ARE BEING ACCUSED OF SOMETHING THEN ACCEPT IT OR DENY IT BUT BY POINTING OUT FLAWS IN THE COMPLAINANTS (YOU SHOW YOUR INSECURITY IN YOURSELVES)



So India
Rakesh
Sydney, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 06:02 AM
459
Varun @comment 453

You point out this Outlook article and the others in this magazine as representative of the balanced viewpoint of the entire Indian media? I was in India a few months back, and at last count there were scores of news channels most of which had sensational, name-calling, headlines along the lines of "The unjust brutal Australian state and society must be condemned for these unforgivable attacks, and all just people and nations everywhere must condemn the racist, murderous attacks on innocent Indians, and force the racist Australian state and society to stop their unjust acts"
They have TV 'debates' that consists of several shrieking pannelists and a clearly biased host who has already made up his\her mind about what is behind every student attack.
If there is a reasonable pannelist or someone who has actually spent time in australia to give an informed opinion, his voice is general drowned out.

Besides Outlook have you taken a look at other online indian newspapers in the last 6 months?? You probably would change your opinion on the "balanced" indian media.

Please note, I do not think the indian media is the only one given to sensationalist, rabble-rousing reporting. But to call them balanced is a joke.
Sumera
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 04:32 AM
458
The surgeon in question seems to have been operating under the influence of drugs as well.

http://www.smh.com.a...n-20100128-n1s4.html
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 04:27 AM
457
This article has made one point worth considering - the 'vocational' students coming to Australia are ill-suited to fitting into our society. The Permanent Residency option for vocational students should be removed.

For now, to weed-out the fake students:
- audits of vocational colleges to be increased in frequency and intensity. Colleges found to be providing fake qualifications to be shut down and their students have their visas cancelled.
- assessment of students once they've finished their courses to be undertaken independant of the colleges that run the courses
- increased ID scrutiny to ensure the people taking the assessments are the same people who are enrolled in the courses
- increased scrutiny of vocational students finances
- failure to pass an end-of course assessment to result in cancellation of visa
- 6 months employment in the area of study to be required before a Permanent Residency application is permitted.
- Vocational student visas to be only valid for long enough for completion of the course and 6 months of employment in the field of study.

Any resulting shortfall in migration to be replaced with humanitarian migration offers.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 05, 2010 03:52 AM
456
It seems like this is mostly a media manufactured controversy. A similar thing happened in the 80's in New Jersey when gangs of youth were attacking people of Indian origin wearing tilaks (dots) on their foreheads. The gangs called themselves the dot-busters. When a minority population becomes visible, people at the fringes of society are the ones to feel the most threatened, since it is their livelihood that hey perceive to be under attack. The phenomenon in New Jersey died down pretty fast and Indians have continued to be the largest immigrant population in New Jersey, in all strata of society ranging from Wall Street fat cats to restaurant workers. I suspect, that over time Victoria will witness a similar evolution.
- Sriram
sriram
Acton, United States
Feb 04, 2010 09:17 PM
455
So in effect, Anand, you are saying the new Indian immigrants brought all this violence on themselves. They deserve what they got, every last one of them. Thanks.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 04, 2010 08:19 PM
454
Mr varun, you have to understand the visa rules that once you are coming in on a student visa you HAVE to prove that you have enough funds to live and study in Australia. Then how can the student wont have money to pay the fees. Two things one, he has cheated the visa office to get the visa saying he has enough money, secondly he is trying to work illegally more than 20hrs to earn and send the money home or pay the fees. No way and not accepted. so wrong people coming on wrong visa and that is why the visa rejection now in australian high commission in delhi is 67% and all the applications from punjab is called for personal interview and rejected. so no point in complaining about the finance and these are about attitude. newly arrived indian student should know how to be humble i suppose
Anand Samy
Chennai / Melbourne, India
Feb 04, 2010 08:15 PM
453
Actually, the Indian media, if not the Indian government, has taken a very balanced view of the incidents in Australia. If they were a bunch of demagogues and propagandists, they would be ranting something like "The unjust brutal Australian state and society must be condemned for these unforgivable attacks, and all just people and nations everywhere must condemn the racist, murderous attacks on innocent Indians, and force the racist Australian state and society to stop their unjust acts" Or something to that effect. If India were communist or Islamist, that's the kind of statement you would be hearing. Instead, this series of Outlook articles are highly balanced, nuanced, reflective and fair-minded. While keeping focused on the primary theme of violence against new Indian immigrants.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 04, 2010 08:14 PM
452
harikumar
coventry, UK
Feb 04, 2010 08:12 PM
451
harikumar
coventry, UK
Feb 04, 2010 08:05 PM
450
Daria, Matt, Paul et al, what in your view would be an appropriate response from the Indian media or government about the recent spate of attacks. A country's nationals are attacked over and over, so of course there's going to be concern. Later, you can sift through the events, and say one or two of the incidents had to do with inter-Indian violence or insurance fraud. It still doesn't change the main theme: that many Australians feel threatened by the new immigrants who are 'visible', insufficiently Australian, accented, and perceived as competitors for low paying jobs. Incidentally, to those Indo-Australians denouncing the recent arrivals, many of them have to work to support themselves, which is why they are taking jobs like driving taxis or late night cashiers etc. The older, more professional Indian immigrants were fortunate in that respect, that there was no need to do these kind of jobs. Hence, they were not seen as competitors by the element that is now attacking them.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 04, 2010 07:55 PM
449
hey guys, there was absolutely no news about the taxi driver who hit a passenger and also about the doctor. what a crap indian media is!!! believe me guys they showed the blast occurred in darwin CBD.

By the way Mr. Gautam gupta has said to one journalist that he is feeling very uncomfortable about the news coming against indians and he is feeling red and cant say anything now.
Anand Samy
Chennai / Melbourne, India
Feb 04, 2010 03:13 PM
448
Oh, dear.......they just seem to keep coming.....

Neurosurgeon on drug death charges From: AAP February 04,

A SYDNEY neurosurgeon has been charged over the drug-related deaths of two women.
Suresh Surendranath Nair, 41, has previously faced court charged with supplying a prohibited drug at his Elizabeth Bay apartment, in Sydney's east, on November 19.

The charge related to the death of a 22-year-old woman, whose body was found at the apartment three days later.

Without naming him, police said Dr Nair would appear in court tomorrow charged with one count of murder and one count of manslaughter.

Police said the manslaughter charge relates to a 23-year-old woman who died on February 15 last year after being taken to St Vincent's Hospital from an address in Elizabeth Bay.

The murder charge relates to the death of the 22-year-old woman in November.

"Post-mortem examination results indicate both women died of cocaine toxicity,'' police said in a statement today.


Nair was granted bail on the original drug supply charge but it was revoked after he allegedly breached his bail conditions, which required him not to engage in the services of female escorts or consume illegal drugs.

He is due to appear in Central Local Court today.
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 01:52 PM
447
RK - yes. However, semiskilled/unskilled labour could be got by giving entry for humanitarian reasons to young famillies from Iraq, Afghanistan, India and elsewhere. People who have been properly assessed as deserving migration, rather than fake students who have shown they have no respect for the laws and customs of the country they're entering.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 01:48 PM
446
An Indian taxi driver is facing charges over the bashing of a passenger who was knocked unconscious in a suburb here in Australia, media reports said on Thursday.

The 25-year-old passenger was involved in a heated argument with the cab driver around 10 pm on Wednesday, as they pulled over in Acland Street in St Kilda, Australian news agency AAP reported.

A witness said the passenger tried to walk away but the cab driver chased him down and had to be restrained by security staff working at a nearby business.

The passenger kept walking away as the cab driver then grabbed a baton from the boot of his cab, drove up next to the passenger and allegedly started striking the man repeatedly with the weapon, according to the witness.

"Within a few minutes, many other cab drivers, all of them Indian, all turned up," witness Karen told Fairfax Radio Thursday. "And I could just see how out of hand this is all getting."

Paramedics say they treated the passenger for bruising and swelling to his upper body and took him to The Alfred hospital in a stable condition.

The 32-year-old cab driver was arrested and later charged with intentionally causing injury and two counts of unlawful assault.

Police say they cannot discuss the case further because the cab driver is facing charges before the courts.

He is expected to make a court appearance in Melbourne Magistrates' Court at a later date.
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 01:35 PM
445
another Indian student charged....this one for assault in Acland St, St Kilda.
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 01:20 PM
444
David Morgan re Tasmanian Aboriginals. Your comments are a disgrace...and racist. Apparently you believe in racial purity....one nation voter? Take a closer, less blinkered view of how indigenous Tasmanians view themselves rather focus on your own uniformed bias
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 01:05 PM
443
Totally agree with Alan (comment 440) with regard to PR courses, the federal government in 2004/05 not only diluted the then stringent university student visa category but also included vocational training students to be eligible for permanent visas. These changes were a deliberate attempt by the Howard government to increase unskilled/semi skilled workforce which can be then help keep overall wages down within the economy.

Most intelligent/educated Indians have a social stigma attached to these kinds of qualifications and would rather die than enroll in classes teaching hospitality/cooking etc.

So to call these people ‘students’ would be a disgrace, it is just a guise to enter into this country, and get residency.

While it is true that many Indians have positively contributed to the American/British/Canadian society over 30-40 years, those Indians were greatly educated highly skilled, well behaved & came from socially conservative (back home) families. However the current group of ‘students’ who have arrived here in Australia to learn cookery/hospitality etc are from a different crop. They are definitely going to work hard as unskilled/semi skilled workers however do not expect them to integrate into the mainstream of this community & become international citizens because they have neither the social capacity/ family belief systems nor the attitude to do so.

Therefore I don’t see this problem going away UNLESS the federal government changes the current lax immigration rules around VOCATIONAL student visa & decline permanent visas application from all such student.

It would be unfortunate to lose good unskilled/semi skilled people however that’s the price we should be prepared to pay.
RK
Sydney, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 12:42 PM
442
Australia is a very racist country. We once had a Labor Party leader who said "no red blooded Australian wants a chocolate Australia by the 80s." Our educational policy is to get as many seats filled as possible and not care about the students who have filled them. I recently read a book by a so called leading intellectual in this country who proudly proclaimed that the White Australia Policy finished with Whitlam. The silly suggestion being that all he had to do was to say it was over and that was the end of it. My parents came here from Europe and I was subjected to abuse because of the strange food we ate and the also strange food at our store. However, I was a good sportsman and eventually all was 'forgiven'. Students travelling to this country should give Victoria a fairly wide berth. That is not to say the rest of the country is better, just that the Victorians have a history of racism. Particularly toward the Chinese. The Labor Party and the Unions live in a state of fear of large numbers of foreigners taking Australian jobs. It is almost a National trait to think that we should plan for the circumstance of large numbers of foreigners arriving. If you look at our boat person policy you get some ridiculous Labor policy where it was a matter of rescuing these people then it became turning the boats back. Meanwhile the numbers continue to grow and people are accepted in. It is the ultimate double standard. In this country there used to be a call to "Populate or Perish" these days the call is more "Populism or Perish" as both political parties have no other real concern than re-election. It should always be remembered that racism is one of the primary tools of fascism and feeds the constant call for security. We are about to spend $70 billion on arms and a security fear was needed. Guess who filled the gap you can read it in the Defence Paper. Of course it is the Indians and the Chinese. Our Prime minister who would attend the opening of an envelope if he could be photographed standing alongside Obama or some other powerful person will speak to the Chinese in their own dialect and from the other side of his mouth call the Chinese a security threat. He and his party must think you in India and China have no memory or are going to be so dependent on us tearing our land apart to provide resources, that you will overlook our two faced attitudes.

Regards,

George Ikners
George Ikners
Sydney, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 11:46 AM
441
To say that indigenous Tasmanian culture is alive and well is a lie. The last full blooded Aboriginal Tasmanian died in 1876. The current population who call themselves Aboriginal are a mixture from rape and government policy which was to breed out or exterminate the race. My point is that Australia has a racist past, possibly a racist foundation. But I guess genocide can be explained away. How about those damn cab drivers!
David Morgan
Sydney, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 11:18 AM
440
The Permanent Residency visa offer for course completion issue needs to be looked at. We've ended-up with a whole lot of spurious education colleges that charge Indians large fees to provide qualifications that allow application for Permanent Residency (whether the qualifications are completed or not). This results in great financial pressure on 'students' that encourages them to break the visa work laws. It also results in disreputable characters who have no real interest in studying in Australia. Basically we're saying, 'if you're prepared to break our laws, give us enough money and we'll let you in'.

We need to encourage highly qualified professional Indians and serious university-level students to migrate, not people who intend to break our laws before they step off the plane. Cracking-down on these dodgy characters would hopefully help ease the friction between India and Australia, and encourage serious students and professionals to migrate.



It seems to me that the Australian govt has been negligent in selling Permanent Residence visas for money, with spurious education courses being the
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 11:15 AM
439
I have expressed my opinion on this matter (Blog 291) and time has come to cool down on both sides-Indian and Australian bloggers. Name calling from both sides is not helping.
Scaria Varghese
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 11:01 AM
438
Until a few weeks ago, the race of victim and guilty parties was not mentioned in Australia in the media or by the police. That was until the Indian media got involved. At first only crime where the victim was Indian was reported in Australia. Now all crime relating to Indians gets reported. So something interesting is happening:

So far this year, 5 weeks in, we have 3 Indian murderers, we have one who is on suspicion of murdering his wife, we have 2 rapists, another who who sexually assaulted minors (repeat offender), we have a fraudulent arsonist and now a taxi driver who along with a gang of other Indian drivers beats up a passenger.

I would suggest that this year the number of crimes committed by Indians is way ahead of crimes where Indians are the victim.

If anyone should be upset here, it is ordinary Australians who are being accused of being racist whilst Indians inport the criminal activities to our cities.

What is the real story here?
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 09:47 AM
437
ELAN'S "paradise on earth".........San Jose, completely free of racism tension accodring to him.....others may noit be so sure(from San Jose Mercury 17 Jan2010)

For the first time in its 26-year history, the Freedom Train from San Jose to San Francisco that honors the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. will embark Monday without the blessing of a local chapter of the NAACP.

The president of the San Jose branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is upset that train organizers accepted a $5,000 donation from the San Jose Police Officers Association at a time when news reports of police misconduct toward minorities have ignited a contentious discussion about race and law enforcement in that city.

"My feeling is you can't buy civil rights; it's something you fight for," said Pastor Jethroe Moore II. "You don't honor someone just because they give you money."



Read more: http://www.sfgate.co...4T.DTL#ixzz0eXIs1wN2
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 09:40 AM
436
LOL sorry, I meant @ ELAN FROM SAN JOSE (apologies to anyone named Jose that my have thought i was directing that at them)
Daria
Sydney, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 09:33 AM
435
Actually, indigenous tasmanian culture is alive and well. Many in that community would be surprised that you have declared them dead.
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 09:28 AM
434
@ ELAN
...what exactly is your problem with Australians?

After your blissfully punctuation-free rant, you have then decided to copy and paste well-known facts about Australia's history in an attempt to make your point that apparently we are all a bunch of racist pigs.

Yes, Australia was colonized in a rather brutal fashion by the British. As was America. How's your Native population doing these days? Not so well, I hear. So, kindly refrain from advising us that "you aussies are getting your racist asses kicked by everyone". The American population is hardly one to make a fuss considering their treatment of their African-American, Mexican (and virtually every other) minority groups.

Yes, there are Australians who are racist. Just like there are Americans, Canadians, Russians, Indians, Chinese, Sudanese, Lebanese, Japanese etc etc etc (shall I go on?) who are also racist. This does not in any way represent the majority view. What you have also failed to realise, is that the majority of Australians are not white these days. There is such an immense mix of races that it's very difficult to even say who's a migrant and who is not.

I myself migrated from Russia around 17 years ago. In the first few years, yes, there was an occasional remark made towards me that could be termed as racist. These comments however, were generally brought about by me not knowing the language, customs and social niceties of the country I had just moved to. In other words, when I began to respect Australia's customs, they began to respect me too, in turn.

In general, with the obvious exclusion of the inevitably dim-witted portion that exists in ANY population, I have never had any displays of even mild racism towards me, that were not provoked by me in the first instance (when you rather ignorantly ask an Aussie why they eat pies and that their beloved national food tastes like dog's bollocks, you are likely to get told to get f***d and do go eat , in my case, stroganoff [insert applicable national food here] back in one's home country). And fair enough I say.

Conversely, I have actually had a number of instances of being inappropriately spoken to, harassed, touched and called terrible names, by Indian cab drivers who feel that it is their right to do so, because I wear Western-style clothing (jeans and T-shirts)and happen to be traveling home late at night from work. One charming driver referred to me as an "Aussie slut" while watching porn on a laptop at the same time as driving his cab. This doesn't make me assume however, that all Indians are represented by that particular pig of a man.

So please, Jose, until you know what's actually happening here, as my Aussie girlfriends say, "pull your head in, mate".
Daria
Sydney, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 09:13 AM
433
I suggest we ask a Tasmanian aborigine to comment on that. Whoops, we f@#ckin killed them all. That's right, the whole population of Aborigines in Tasmania, gone.
No, Australians don't have a racist history, not that much, it's just the people who migrate here.
David Morgan
Sydney, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 09:05 AM
432
The White Australia Policy, not the actual name of the policy, was designed to create a utopian and egalitarian society at the time of Federation.

The view was that if all people held similar beliefs, read: religious, cultural, ethical (and as the Australians were Anglo-Saxon-Celt this is what they saw as similar), then there would be no need for war or division. As Europe, Africa, Asia and the Americas had been undergoing decades and centuries of external and civil wars and class division this policy would prevent Australia going down this path.

That is what the ideals of the policy were. In todays world that is seen as a racist policy. The WAP was in many ways disbanded directly after WW2, proven by the influx of southern and western Europe.

Now, before anyone mentions, "What about the Aboriginals?", this you also need to put into context in the history of the times.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 08:51 AM
431
The Colombo Plan is the one thing you never hear about. When Indians and others want to prove we are racists they refer to the White Australia Policy, which when put in context for the times would not have been considered by most people but that is for another blog.

The Colombo Pla was intiated by Australia in 1949 and had Australia paying for the University education of Indians, Sri Lankans, Pakistanis, Malaysians, Indonesians etc. in ecenomics, science, agriculture etc. which resulted in improving the lives of the people in these nations.

Call us racist if you wish, but understand history when using it to prove your point.

Unlike India, we still sponsor people from all over the world to study here. Maybe that should be your Australian story.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 08:41 AM
430
It's all an ugly business Sumera. I suspect people denying the racist element are at least partly reacting to the exagerated reports from India. Afterall, when you're unjustly accused of being complicit in race-hate, the tendancy is to get indignant and over-react.

Here's to understanding between all parties eh?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 08:37 AM
429
Breaking news from Australia.

Another racist attack has occured in Melbourne. The man used a club and drove past the pedestrian hitting him in the head knocking him unconcious. Then a large number of people turned up and assisted in beating the already unconcious person. A bouncer had early seperated the criminal when he had attacked the victim from behind in Ackland Street.

The man with the club was an Indian taxi driver, the gang that assisted him to beat an already unconcious person, were Indian taxi drivers, the victim a white person. The Indian has now been arrested and charged with serious assault. This must be a racist conspiracy to arrest peace loving, tolerant, well educated Indian 'students', who drive taxis.

While I'm on the subject, the other Indian that has been arrested for the rape of the two 11 girls in Victoria after he slipped them alcohol must also be subject to the same conspiracy.

We will return this Indian Peadophile soon. He can pratice legally what is illegal in Australia. I think he is confused, and thought child brides were legal in Australia.

I notice very many similarities with all cases involving Indians, be they victims or perputrators. The surname is nearly always a Punjabi name. Is this a coincidence? Or a white racist conspiracy?

We know most Indians hate Punjabis, based on articles within Indian papers, has this now lead to Australians hating Punjabis?

I am also now confused, have we Australians developed our racist brains so far that we now can determine that someone is a Punjabi and not a Maharashtrian?

I also find it interesting until recently Sihks were not called Indians in the Indian media, only Hindus were.

My racist brain is now so confused.

Apologies, this ridicule is not directed at the educated Indians, which in India is a minority based on Indian, NGO and UN statistics, or at the real Indian Students in Australia.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 08:36 AM
428
I meant comment no 424 by Matt. Although Alan's post is spot on too! :-)
Sumera
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 08:04 AM
427
Alan's comment (no 423) sums up what the situation is in Melbourne vis-a-vis the indian student attacks.

However Alan, I dont think there will be many indians who will actually read your viewpoint with an open mind and concede that perhaps they may have jumped to conclusions too soon (after all, one has to save face, even if it has mud all over it)

Indian's are by nature given to emotional and sometimes violent outbursts. Mostly because we tend to accept things that come our way even if it bothers us (and dont actually do anything to address it at that point), and then when it gets too much explode into irrational reactions, childish name-calling, and disturbingly violent riots.

As an indian-australian living in Melbourne, I have been asked what I think about all this, and in my conversations with australian colleagues at work, I found that most seem to want to deny that racism exists in australia or that there can be some racism behind some of the indian attacks. There have been a couple who just say 'So what, other immigrants faced it too, why should indians complain?' That attitude is just as reprehensible as indians grouping all these attacks as racist and calling all (white) australians racist.

By that same token, I noticed today (on online papers like the Herald Sun) that a lot of australians seem to think that because the indian guy set himself on fire for an insurance claim and there were 2 indians involved in the murder of the indian fruit picker, that all the other assaults on indian students and racist taunts that accompanied (some, most of them?) can be waved away.

Unfortunately, we haven't heard the last of this. There are still many poor, indian students in melbourne, mostly from indian villages who are ill-equipped to deal with life in a western metro.
Sumera
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 07:14 AM
426
Canada is one of the more enligtened countries when it comes to the matter of policies on racism, but shares very similar history to the USA, Australia and other places in relation to its dark racist past. Many posters here refer to the so-called white-australia policy ( in effect abolished in 1966) but would not understand that Canada had a virtually identical policy until 1967.
In any event, the white Australia policy has very little to do with the situation facing Indians in Australia....except perhaps rather ironically in the sense that much(but not all) of the street crime in Australia is undertaken by the alienated and dissaffected children of those who came to Australia as a result of the abolition of the white australia policy.
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 07:00 AM
425
As a White Anglo Saxon Australian I am actually quiet offended by allegations that all Australians are racist against Indians.

I have neighbours, freinds and work colleagues who are of Indian back ground and they like I can not see the racism that the Indian Journalists are reporting.

My Indian neighbours children are teenagers and just starting to drive. I see many of their teenage freinds coming to visit and whilst alot are of Indian heritage quiet a lot of them are white and from other backgrounds whom they have net through school.

My Daughter and the Indian girl next door have been freinds for many years

That is the real Australia

Geoff
Geoff Martin
Kingswood, Sydney, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 04:43 AM
424
Rohan:

Actually, refuting every point theoretically does produce a balanced argument. It is the very basis for the confrontational legal systems found throughout most of the Western World, and bits and pieces of the east.

Is it perfect? No, but it presents both sides and permits an impartial observer (such as judge or jury) to weigh up both sides, and draw a conclusion.

So, as my closing summary to this debate:

Are there racists in Australia? Yes.

Are the attacks on Indians in Australia racially motivated? Some yes, some no. We know that some attacks were indians attacking other indians, and one was an accidental self-immolation.

Does this mean that every as-yet unexplained attack was racially motivated? No. Not logically. Not statistically.

Does this mean that every as-yet unexplained attack was NOT racially motivated? No. Not logically. Not statistically.

Does that mean we don't know which attacks were racially motivated? Yes, and until more data comes through, any division along those lines is just a guess.

In Australia, are Indians proportionally more likely to be attacked that other ethnic groups? No. In fact the evidence is that statistically they are under-represented in victim of crime numbers. That Aborigines are over-represented should be more of a national embarrassment. Native Australians don't have a high-commissioner that they can symbolically recall or a tabloid press where they can run nationalistic comment.

Does that mean Australia doesn't have a problem with violent attacks and assaults? No, but it means its a bigger issue, not directed particularly at Indians.

Will the Australian economy fall-over if all the Indian Students leave, or if we never sell Uranium to India? No. We'll feel it, but its more than made up for by exports of primary products to China.

Does the average Australian care whether Indians are here or not? Probably not. A few will feel threatened, and a few will miss them should they leave (In particular, a white friend of mine who seems to have had a long string of Indian girlfriends).

Does Australia have a monopoly on racists? No

Is India free of racism, and thus in a position to point the finger? No

Is the US free of racism, and thus in a position to point
the finger? No

Is Canada free of racism, and thus in a position to point the finger? No and Maybe. They are definitely one of the more advanced nations when it comes to integration.

Is Varun arguing from an informed position? No

Is Varun turning to personal attacks and gross generalisations in order to build his case? Yes.

Is that technically even an argument? No.

Over to you, Varun.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 04:20 AM
423
This is what I believe is happening in Melbourne. It’s only conjecture, because really, there’s no hard evidence.

I believe Indian students are being robbed because they’re in risky occupations such as taxi driving and convenience store work, because they live in poor and violent neighbourhoods, and because they tend to carry cash to avoid financial scrutiny. Also, I believe Indian students are perceived by the criminals who attack them as not being part of mainstream Australia and therefore vulnerable. I believe the students are probably subjected to racial taunts while being robbed. These attacks will be being carried-out by impoverished drug users and drunk thugs of all races and ethnicities (including whites), and recent immigrant groups who are having trouble fitting into Australian society. Because of the racial taunts the robberies are being interpreted by the likes of Sasha as hate-crimes.

Some Indian students may also be being attacked because of inappropriate behaviour around Australian women. Again, racial taunts will almost definitely be involved and Sasha will be interpreting these as hate crimes because of the taunts.

Indians in places where young people go to let-off steam like the CBD may also unfortunately be targeted with racial taunts by idiotic drunk young men with too much testosterone, probably whites of all European backgrounds, and probably middle eastern men too. This is undoubtedly an example of low-level racism, and unfortunately it's been applied to each successive group of migrants into Australia - Italians, Greeks, Vietnamese, Lebanese etc.

I consider a racist attack to be where someone is attacked simply because of race - not for theft or retaliation. The attack on the Nepali mentioned below may be such a case. I think there was another attack on an Indian (last year?), and that was by a middle eastern gang. The recent attack on 2 Indians by East Asians may also be a racist attack, but it might also be a result of the recent tensions between China and India. Such abhorrent attacks don’t seem to be very frequent.

Now the Sasha’s of this world and the Indian media are lumping all these together as hate crimes and out of reverse racism concluding they’re all being perpetrated by white Australians because of an all-pervading Australian anti-Indian racism. To justify this, ridiculous claims are being made of ambulances giving preference to whites over Indians, and police are accused of inaction. To put that into perspectivem, I’ve been bugled 3 times in Melbourne and had a car stolen twice. The police have dutifully come and taken notes, and that’s the last I’ve heard of it. Sometimes, there’s just nothing police can do. Unfortunately the case of Nitin Garg may be in this group.

On a brighter note, my group of friends includes Europeans, Australian east asians, and Australian Indians. This includes a girl of mixed Chinese/Anglo background married to a bloke of German origin, a girl of Indian origin married to a bloke of Chinese origin, and a girl of Chinese origin married to a bloke of Irish origin.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 04:09 AM
422
Alan and Matt,

what exactly are you arguing about? There is no balanced view by refuting every point that has been raised. And Matt, whether you speak Australian or English - is this a so called balanced view on the issue that has been raised here.

Some of you agree that there are racist elements within the society so what exactly are you arguing about?

And PeterMC, Indians might have BPO meetings - there is nothing wrong with that. But Indians also have a lot of excellent achievements - We specifically dont need to whore with the US because of our insecurity living in Asia.

And Heath: you mentioned Indian students are sometimes loud and that is why they are attacked. I guess you would say that the Bali bombing happened because of all the drunk Aussies?
rohan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 04:05 AM
421
Bharat, I'm afraid your words are falling on deaf ears.

Like you I have an Indian background and I love the Australia. It is my home.

It does not matter what we say, the Indian media and Indian self interest groups want to protray Australia as a racist nation even though the truth is completely opposite.

I have been bashing my head against a brick wall for a while now but there is nothing that you or I can do to prevent this.

It breaks my heart.
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 03:27 AM
420
Varun:

Firstly, the tone I am refuting is not that of OutlookIndia, it's that of Varun Shekar.

Secondly, by definition, a balanced view requires at least two opinions. A single article, unless peer reviewed and referenced, will have great difficulty providing a balanced view.

So, by our interchange, you and I are presenting a balanced view. Future readers to this forum will be able to read our opinions and draw their own conclusions.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 03:21 AM
419
Varun: "Do you speak Australian?" is not a very articulate thing to say.

I've never heard anybody ask that question, though of course "Do you speak English" is quite likely if communication is proving difficult.

Interestingly, the last time I asked was in response to an American tourist:

"Do you speak American?"
"No. Do you speak English?"
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 03:12 AM
418
"You are ugly, fat and smell like elderberries. Any attempt to refute these unsupported statements will be taken as an indication that you can't take criticism."

That's not the tone of the series of Outlookindia articles, at all. You are now misrepresenting the Indian media, due to your hypersensitivity to criticism. If you read these articles carefully, they give a balanced picture of the recent incidents, and even mention the lewd and crude behaviour of some of the new Indian arrivals. But it doesn't in any way justify the attacks, or alter the fact the violence is continuing.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 04, 2010 03:03 AM
417
Varun:
> This forum is showing how intolerant Australians are to criticism.

You are ugly, fat and smell like elderberries. Any attempt to refute these unsupported statements will be taken as an indication that you can't take criticism.

> Indians are a small, non-aggressive, non-offending, law abiding community.

There are 400,000 Indians in Australia. That may be small when put against a population of 1 Billion, but its a significant proportion of our 22 Million.

I agree that they are overwhelming law-abiding and non-aggressive, which is why they make a preferential target for idiots looking for trouble. Maybe the community needs to raise local knowledge of silambam and other traditional martial arts to build the perception that maybe, just maybe, their intended victim will fight back.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 02:58 AM
416
And DC...if you believe the USA has some international best-practice for dealing with hate crime you might take a closer look at the Matthew Shepard( u of Wyoming) case and the extraordinary bitterness associated with the 11 year fight for federal legislation.
Minister Krishna was quoted yesterday as saying there have been no problems for indian students in the USA. The dead can't speak for themselves, so someone needs to remind him of the 2 Indian PhD students murdered ON-Campus in Louisiana, another murder at Duke and hundreds of other incidents against Indians. Whether they are hate crimes or opportunistic is not clear but Krishna's denial of any 'issue' and the absurdity of the claim that the USA is a safer destination for Indians should be challenged.
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 02:30 AM
415
DC
I am certinly not denying the existence of hate crime in Australia ( and I can't see any other posts doing that either). All legal jurisdictions in Australia have racial vilification legislation. It goes without saying that there are racists in Australia....this magazine chose to interview the fanatical right ( probably regarded ans centre-right in US terms) and on the basis of that ascribe motives and behaviour to an entire country. And you think thats ok? Fortunately Australia, while conceding that there is a tiny lunatic fringe here , is a deeply tolerant society
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 02:23 AM
414
How do you know there are hate crimes in Australia DC, given you live half the world away? Is it because you believe everything you read in the Indian media?

Why don't you believe the many positive posts written here by Indian Australians who are first hand witnesses?

Why do read general Australian racism into posts by Australian here, but treat the much worse comments by Indians as isolated incidents? If Australians were to be as prejudiced as you, we'd be justified in thinking all Indians are as racist as Elan. Luckily we're not, and you should think about that before posting your nonsense.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 04, 2010 01:08 AM
413
Paul
I am commenting not on the situation in Australia but on the comments of several people on this board that are overtly and covertly racist. I am sure you are neither blind nor ignorant to see these comments for yourself. And if you can't then I am sorry- you take a racist tone for granted. (Of course a number of disgusting racist comments from certain Indian readers are utterly deplorable. )

I draw a parallel with the US not to make a statistical comparison of crime rates - that's what you and many others are doing in this forum to underplay allegations of hate crimes.

Americans never deny the presence of hate crimes by citing statistical significance - nor does the law and order blame the accusers when they cannot apprehend the criminals. And allegations of racial profiling is taken very seriously - if you donot care about the victims you will certainly care for big ticket lawsuits.

Instead of apprehending the culprits if you guys deny that there is no hate crime in your country and the accusers are all lying that's fine. And blaming Indian media or asking immigrant Indians to go back will not resolve the brewing animosity.
DC
NEW YORK, United States
Feb 03, 2010 10:54 PM
412
" Do you speak Australian?" is not a very articulate thing to say. Doesn't reflect well on the person doing the asking, nor on Australia as a whole, if it is a popular question.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 03, 2010 09:38 PM
411
Those Australians, including Indo-Australians, making accusations, that the Indian media is being hysterical or hyper-critical, are way off base. This very Outlook article contains many balanced, nuanced views of the recent spate of violence. An Australian official is quoted to the effect that not all the attacks are racial. Actually, India has the freest and liveliest media in the third world, with a variety of perspectives and information presented openly. In some ways, it's freer than a large section of the American media.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 03, 2010 07:59 PM
410
No nation or group of people is perfect. But sadly I find Indians this time completely wrong side of line. two points I think are prime reason for whole issue.

1. Poverty and extreme competition for survival in India which naturally pushes people to go in search for better life out there in developed nations. No matter what they have to do, to achieve it.Plain and simple.

2. Ultra nationalistic but haplessly naive Indian media which refuse to do a self introspection.
Storm
Jaipur, India
Feb 03, 2010 07:47 PM
409
Hello Friends. I have been witnessing this intense issue of Indians being racially targetted by Australians. I feel its completely unfair to the local people of Australia who are being subjected to intense media criticsm back in India. I am an Indian national on PR and migrated 2 years ago to Australia. My experience so far has been absolutely amazing. The people here are warm, have great sense of humour and generally happy. Most of them go about their business without meddling into other peoples business. We can practice our religion freely without being ridiculed or judged. Well i should also say that there is a bit of ignorance about Indian culture, but thats understood given the limited interaction Australia has had with India in all this time. coming to the Indian students problem, let me share a first hand account of my freind who works in Seven Eleven in St Kilda. According to him our students coming particularly from punjab are a big nuisance. they not only disrespect the local culture but are rude and rowdy in their behaviour. Only last week few of these guys bashed a lebanese guy outside a restaurant on silly reason. He says he actually feels ashamed when he see's such behaviour from his own country mates. Remember its simple rule. Respect the local culture and the culture will respect you. We Indians have to respect the local culture here or else we better be on our way out. Let not the lovely people here be subjected to such useless and baseless criticism when we know that the facts are very different than what it is made out to be.
Bharat
Perth, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 07:12 PM
408
@ post 404 David, you got it wrong mate. I totally agree that we are here to debate and find a way to communicate and share a clear pathway why all this is happening which has never happened before. The reason for my post if that is what you are referring to as a complain....I am sorry mate, I think i was right to say that "I am ashamed being Indian because of few Indians here in Australia who has used Racism as the way to get popularity. Is that right? that was my question and that's the reason why i mentioned names like Gautam Gupta who has used this as his platform to promote himself. Just saw channel 9 news via internet, and he is there and the news reporter said "Gautam Gupta who is the representative of indian Community" in her comments, I TOTALLY disagree and it will be a big SIN for the Indian community in Australia to have him and as well No one is approving or acknowledged the same.

Dont take me wrong here, i am not against Guptas...i am against propaganda about Racism by him which is not so. where is his comments about the Indian arrested. Has he met them and spoken to them. what is he doing. See the whole point here is misleading the people in India and creating communal riots. Not right mate. The indians like me are living here for long time with out any issues and would like to do so. I think i can vouch for my 15yrs of experience in australia.

Sorry for the long message but i have to say this to clear the air.

cheers
Anand Samy
Chennai / Melbourne, India
Feb 03, 2010 06:25 PM
407
I moved to Australia with my parents in 1982, I have lived in Australia all this time. I have never been racially abused or attacked in any way. I love India the country of my birth but I am ashamed of the way the Indian media, politicans, people accuse Australia of racism. Indian is one of the most disgusting countrys on Earth, the politicians are corrupt, the police are corrupt, the people live in filth and squalor. India is a racist country, where politicians rape foreign women and get away with it, where Indians sexually assualt children and get away with it, then these Indians come to Australia try to do insurance scams, sexually assualt Australian women, murder their own and calim all Australian are racist. I am embrassed to be a Indian after all this, my best friends are Australian, Greek, Italian, Chinese and they are some of the warmest, nice people I have ever known. Why don;t the Indian media investigate the Indians coming to Australia on fake visas to get a PR status? Why don't the Indian people and politicians and media investigate the rapes, scams, murders Indians commit here in Australia? If Australia is such a racist country why don't all you Indians stay in your safe, uncorroupt country? All you Indians have done now is make life hard for the rest of the Indian people living in Australia in peace and have grown up in Australia a great country which India will never be able to compete with. India is a disgrace and a laughing stock in the world, stay in India and as a Indian living in Australia we don't want you here.
roshan1r@gmail.com
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 05:35 PM
406
DC Post 364
New York
Fortunately Australia is a long way sort of crime rates in the USA ( homicide rate 1/50 per capita). I totally disagree with you in respect of the effectiveness of hate-crime legislation and law-enforcement. It has done nothing to decrease the extent of hate crimes, anymore than the death penalty has for the homicide rate. As to suggesting that on the basis of reading some posts on this site and making the determination that a significant proportion of Australians have racial biases? Huh? Which posts are those and in any event are you not making excatly the same error as the author of the article: making comments and ascribing motives when, as you concede, you don't know anything about australia. Strange logic. Maybe stick with the New York Post
paul
melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 05:11 PM
405
'Quisling' is a bit harsh David. If some Indians/Indian Australians have an issue with the way others are behaving in Australia, they have a right to express it.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 03:58 PM
404
"hey Guys,

This is disgrace. Please look at my post of yesterday. I have already said how disappointed I am as being an Indian."

You don't help your cause being a Quisling. A rational debate is fun and interesting, but I thought this whole issue was about journalistic integrity and finding the truth, not attacking people because of perceived stereotypes.

I'm confused at some of these posts which seem to shift the blame between the parties. That isn't the issue is it? It's a matter of perception and how sensationalism can cloud people's ideas about other people.

I'm not being philosophical here, saying "yeah we aren't racist" is admirable, because in general I believe it's true, but as has been said before, clearly something is happening. What it is I don't know? Parochialism? Nationalism, bad reporting? I'm starting to think an English language magazine from India isn't a forum to convince anybody of anything.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 02:46 PM
403
nin
melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 01:48 PM
402
Nice post RK - the more positive testimonials from Indian Australians the better!
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 01:45 PM
401
Breaking News!!!

The indian Nobel prize winner (living in USA) is now calls Britain about racism.....cant believe this. What a confused Indian....he feels Brits are racist because his O2 mobile application is been rejected because of credit rating. What a dum....god SAVE India and sitting here and having my holiday is making me more agressive and cant wait to land in melbourne and be away from the indian media and few morons here....god save India

http://www.timesnow....icleshow/4337678.cms
Anand Samy
Chennai / Melbourne, India
Feb 03, 2010 01:22 PM
400
Hi all,

Brief background to myself first, I am an Indian Australian, settled in Sydney for the last 9-10 years, working for one of the largest financial services company in the country in a very responsible position & have also interacted/worked closely with clients (people) from other large organizations within Australia.

I categorically REJECT the assertions made in the Indian media and some within this forum that Australia is a racist country. Also I truly believe that Australia is one of the best countries, on the face of this earth.

I love its people especially the universal respect & consideration they have for others, love the Australian generosity of giving everyone a ‘fair-go’, no matter where one comes from. I love the diverse cuisine found in this beautiful country…Italian wood fired pizza fresh out of the oven/Spanish chorizo & green salad /Lebanese kebab/Thai fried rice/Indian thandoori chicken/Croatian Chevapi/Australian Angus beef steak and off course the great Australian white wines from South Australia.

I love the vast landscapes especially the long golden white sand beaches of the east coast.I love the clean fresh air found everywhere (not just in the countryside) and ABOVE ALL
I love Australia for the LACK of institutional corruption, societal hatred & cultural prejudices found in most other countries and PERSONALLY experienced this, in my own country for 30 long years.

Therefore when Indian media makes accusation against Australia, I for one do not/will not support it... Not because I am blind or I am an illiterate idiot...but because I have first hand experience of this beautiful country.

Also my wife is a non Indian/ my in laws (extended family) are non Indians...all my friends are non Indians and my colleagues are non Indians...so I would know surely IF Australians are racist!!

So trust me when I say this, Australia is one of the best country on the face of this earth and its people, one of the best you can find.

All I have to say to my Indian brothers everwhere is that...
I love Australia, I love India and Iam fortunate enough to have known both.
RK
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 12:57 PM
399
Just announced in the press - An Indian national has been arrested in Horsham for sexually interfering with two girls. Allegedly he gave them alcohol before allegedly molesting them. They were minors.

I guess those racist aussie girls somehow trapped him.
CP
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 11:44 AM
398
I wonder if the two Indian brothers who died at a New Zealand glacier when they left a safe area to take pictures are included in these statistics? They were residing in Australia at the time so maybe they were. No doubt it would have been a violent and unfortunate death for both of them. As for the guy who torched himself as well as his car lets hope he is deported back to India as soon a spossible.
Ray
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 11:31 AM
397
hey Guys,

This is disgrace. Please look at my post of yesterday. I have already said how disappointed I am as being an Indian. Sick and Sin. There are few points from my side after getting up in INdia today and the television channel having a little say about the idiot being caught for burning himself but more emphasis is on Indian high commissioner in Australia is been called to Delhi to meet foreign minister and the caption says " pressure of Australia". I would say "bull S**t". India you have to grow up even though i am now in Chennai and writing this message. Cant wait to land back in Melbounre.

secondly, Mr. vijay i think you even might be Gautam Gupta. by the way guys Mr. Gautam Gupta is jobless and sitting at home doing nothing after getting his Aussie passport. All he does is getting media coverage but he does not know after the latest news do u all think he is going to get recognition in Australia no way. No aussie will go to him because he does not have any credentials any more. Another news the president of FISA is a bouncer at a night club in melbourne. what a credit for so called indian student union. Bull according to me ha.

I also like to mention that Mr. Varun...and sasha you have to grow up because you are giving the Indian strategy of escapism when the reality is thrown at you

I feel Karthik like me who has adopted Australia as home has a general view.

I condemn the attack. but condemn only if it is genuine. I think poor gautam gupta once in a interview in Indian channel said "hope victorian police know what they are doing" ...hey Gautam i think now i say "yes i know what they are doing" hahahha you are deep trouble mate.

honestly from my heart if the Victorian police checks Mr. Gautam Gupta's record he might be in trouble as well. he came to australia to study and for sure he would have worked more than 20hrs a week. That is violating student visa regulation. he might even be deported to India does not matter if he is a citizen because he declared legally that he has not violated anything. Mr Gautam you should be going to speak to a lawyer now mate.

I was also been told that the representatives of FISA is standing in front of flinders street collecting addresses and requesting them to become a member of fisa. disgrace dude. this is not how you guys should do things
Anand Samy
Chennai / Melbourne, India
Feb 03, 2010 10:25 AM
396
Bloody hell. KEEP YOUR DAMN HANDS TO YOURSELF.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 09:52 AM
395
There was a Nepali guy attacked from behind 2 days ago near where I live on the Northern Beaches of Sydney. He looks Indian, but...his attackers were Pacific Islanders who had only been in the country for 3 weeks. Unfortunately his situation is rather serious and I hope he makes a full recovery.
Richard Blackburn
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 09:16 AM
394
Not at all mate, not at all. That's cool. We're all together on this so we can all… wait a second, what's that tapping noise? Look out, here comes the next comment!!!
David Morgan
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 09:06 AM
393
Sorry mate - thought you were saying I shouldn't have mentioned the incident with the girl.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 08:59 AM
392
Hey don't beat me up mate, I was talking about the blog, not the article!
David Morgan
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 08:53 AM
391
David Morgan - If the girls brothers had caught the Indian guy, he would have been beaten-up. We would then have another statistic of how racist Australians are, regardless of the fact that they would have beaten-up anyone who molested her like that, of whatever race.

The story therefore had a point. I really don't think hiding these sorts of incidents help with getting "views aired".
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 08:49 AM
390
Do people who live in India actually read this magazine? I haven't seen many posts from people living in the Republic of India. Maybe we're just talking to ourselves and a few disgruntled Indians living outside their homeland.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 08:38 AM
389
I hope that the postings here are not encouraging fanatics. I think forums like this are constructive in that a lot of views get aired, facts are unearthed and fanatics are shown up.
David Morgan
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 08:38 AM
388
David Morgan - actually the girl I was referring to is pretty-much a bogan, although her parents migrated here only recently. And if her brothers had been able to catch the Indian guy who sat next to her in the bus, I wouldn't have liked his chances.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 08:20 AM
387
Few if any Australians are refuting the facts, but the facts are not being published.

Gautam Gupta states that 33 Indians have been violently killed in Australia during 2004-2009. No one can dispute that 33 Indians were killed during this period, and the Vic Police aren't or the Government.

What is disputed is it is presented as factual and whole, when put into context of the article and the Indian hysteria it is implying Australians murdered 33 Indians due to racist reasons.

What is missing is the fact, all 2009 murders were committed by Indian nationals.

What is missing is the fact that the majority were not murder, it consisted of suicide, car accidents, accidental deaths ie. drowning, and a few murders, and a few unknown.

Gautam Gupta is presenting the details to the Indian media selectively for political gain and fame. He is positioning himself as the saviour of all the down trodden Indian masses in Australia. Mind you all the Indians I socialise with are far from down trodden. Either he is lying or the journalist is incompetent.

1,447 crimes were committed against Indians in 2009 against Indians. Slightly misleading.

Fact, 1, 447 crimes were committed against 1,447 poeople of South Asian appearance, this includes Fijian Indians, Malay Indians, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Indians, Sri Lankans, Australian Indians, American Indians, Anglo Indians etc. etc. The crimes include all forms of crimes including house breaking, car theft, assault, murder, financial crime, petty crime etc.

What this story and others in the Indian media imply is that these were all crimes of physical violence committed against Indian nationals by Australians.

Fact, Indians that had committed crimes against Indian nationals are also in this number.

Fact white Australians committed some of these crimes.

Fact, some will be fraudelent claims.

Fact, Lebonese Australians comitted some of these crimes.

Fact, Asians comitted some of these crimes.

Fact, numerous ethnic groups would have committed these crimes.

Fact, many of these crimes will not be solved as they are minor and are only reported to enable people to put in legitimate insurance claims.

The majority of Australians know there are drunk, violent, racists in Australia, but we also know this is a tiny minority, it is just that the Indian Government, the Indian media, sections of the Indian populace, and sections of the Indian and Australian community in Australia are using this to tar ALL Australians as racist criminals. With some doing it purely for their own gain.

DO you think this is not in the interset of idiots like Gautam Gupta and FISA. The BJP are also loving it. So are the right wing neo-nazi groups in Australia, because now they aren't having to do much at all to stir up resentment.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 07:34 AM
386
Peace y'all.

I don't think we've solved it yet. Those statistics that were mentioned:

* 1,447 incidents of crime against Indians in 2007-08 have been reported in Victoria alone.
* 33 Indians died in violent attacks between 2004 and 2009, says Federation of Indian Students of Australia spokesperson Gautam Gupta. Of these, six died in 2009. Nitin Garg was stabbed to death in 2010.

And to refute all this we can say a handful of those were done by Indians against Indians, (or Indians against themselves) and some are suggesting the rest were done by other immigrants. I haven't seen much acknowledgment from Australians that we do in fact have an ignorant, alcoholic, violent and racist class of people in this country who have been that way since our beginnings only 200 odd years ago.

It's the bogans I tell you.
David Morgan
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 07:18 AM
385
Varun - "Indians are a small, non-aggressive,non-offending, law abiding community"

Have you not read Craig's posts refuting that? Do you consider insurance fraud to be law-abiding?

There's a young woman I work with who was sat next to in a bus. There weren't many people, so there there was no need to sit next to her. He then used the motion of the bus to rub himself up against her. Contrary to your statement on inoffensive Indians, she found this extremely offensive, and unfortunately now intensely dislikes all Indians. I think she's being very narrow-minded on this, but she won't be convinced that all Indian men aren't all sexist sleazebags.

I have friends and acquaintances whose family is of Indian origin or who are Indian immigrants, and I can't tell you how angry I would be if they were targetted in a racial attack. That's why I get pissed-off when I see statements and articles about how racist I am because I'm Australian.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 06:59 AM
384
Sasha - I'm sorry if you find logical arguments difficult. Unfortunately that's what you need to do to make people believe you have a point. This does seem to be a somewhat foreign concept in India. Strange since Indians claim to be racially gifted in maths, and logic is it's underlying basis.

You've made 2 claims that help underpin whether you're credible or not. Firstly you've stated that ambulances in Australia bypass Indians in favour of whites. Secondly, you've claimed that the govt could easily deal with the Indian attacks. When questioned on these, you haven't been able to substantiate them.

So why should you be believed in your other claims?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 06:58 AM
383
@ Varun.

There's a substantial difference between being overly sensitive to valid criticism and offering counter-opinions to being misrepresented as a national body. Think about some stereotypes and assumptions people make about Indian people and see if you wouldn't want to try and get your view heard.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 06:42 AM
382
This forum is showing how intolerant Australians are to criticism. They just can't take it when criticism is leveled against them from a poor, non-white, third world country. Indians are a small, non-aggressive,non-offending, law abiding community. They definitely deserve consideration and sympathy.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 03, 2010 06:42 AM
381
Post No 375 by Craig of Adelaide is spot on. I will also like to add to this the fact over lat 10-15 years, because of some economic growth in India (which is all based on sweat shops setup by MNCs), Indians have started believing as if they are a world power and they can bully other countries. The ground reality however is : "India is a third world country and will continue to be so for another 100 yeras, with its myriads of problems like corruption, caste based totally fractured society etc. etc"
Aussie Indian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 06:27 AM
380
Allan, It's hard to argue with people like you. You win. I accept that Indians are whipping up a frenzy because they have ulterior motives to give Victoria a bad name. Indians in Victoria lie. The attacks on them are not racist. Whatever you say is right. Take care
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 06:20 AM
379
For all those chest beating Indians, what do you think of this now :

http://tinyurl.com/yl8gpvb

I am not sure if Indian media is going to give any prominence to this news or not, but knowing how spineless creatures we are, I highly doubt it.
Aussie Indian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 05:53 AM
378
@ Ian

That is disturbing. You'd think there are enough morons to write inflammatory posts without resorting to using your staffers and family/friends to boost readership and revenue.

What market are these people catering to?
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 05:53 AM
377
hear hear Craig.
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 05:32 AM
376
David,

The Herald Sun (Hun) has a notrous gang of trolls to write stupid right wing comments to get "click-bait" - the more clicks on the site, the more advertising revenue. Please see Daryl Mason's archived blog posts for more info.

http://theorstrahyun.blogspot.com/
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 05:24 AM
375
DC, you feel the article is balanced and the response by the Australians shows we are racist. The issue with this arrticle are the key facts are missing that make it balanced.

All murders of Indians committed in Australia during 2009 were found to be committed by Indian nationals and the only one still outstanding an Indian national is under investigation and even the Indian Government agree it is likely he killed his wife. A point left out in all Indian media articles, including this one. There was a massive outpouring in India of hate gainst Australia of the racist attack that resulted in an Indian man being attacked and set on fire in early January. He claimed to have been set on fire by 4 white Australians. He was arrested overnight and charged with insurance fraud, and a number of other crimes.

The 2010 murder of Nitin Garg s still under investigation. Should the police just claim it is racial and only investigate people belonging to racist organisations?

You claim the US would take this more seriously, possibly so but do observe their recent history where blacks have been chained to the back of a pick up and dragged to their death, or beaten and tied to stakes until they died, and hundreds more heinous race hate crimes. This we never see in Australia.

The comments made by the majority of Australians are tongue in cheek, as we are enjoying ridiculing a number of the fools in this blog who made incredibly vicious and racist comments.

One issue that though vaguely referred in the article is overlooked. Up until 2006/7 Indians were rarely involved in any issues. This is becasue until then the average Indian was a highly educated professioanl, mixed with Asutralians, and spoke English. This changed dramatically with the majority entering after 2006 not being highly educated, not mixing with Australians, and not speaking English. In an interview of 60 Indian students in Melbourne during an article on this matter all but one openly admitted they were not real students.

There is not a denial of the crimes that have been committed in Australia. It has been openly stated that some of the crimes have a racial element, and these comments go back into 2008 when a noticeable rise was made of the number of Indians being assaulted or robbed in Melbourne. Up until 2008 they were substantially below the national averages. For assaults they are still below the national average, but for robbery they are above the average. The majority of the robbery cases are against taxi drivers, service station workers, and convenience store workers, which are now the most common place you find the unskilled Indian 'students'. Prior to the Indian students' working these jos other unskilled, low educated immigrants worked in these roles until they made their way out of it and now have educated themselves and their children. Very few Australia nationals would ever work in these jobs as they are deemed unsafe, exactly the same as in Canada the US, UK etc. Asutralian youth do not need to work in these jobs because as our economy was not impacted by the GFC, Australian youth (of all ethnic background) still can pick and choose higher paying, safer jobs, or are supported by their families when they study. In the 80's and early 90's these jobs would have been done by Australians, and they were the ones being robbed. I know this becuase my parents were held up and threatened with being killed. The criminals were not white Australians. You see it isn't a race issue. It is a crime issue.

One of the complaints of the Indians is we are not given them a break down on the race of people that are committing the crime, and we are not releasing these details in the media. In Australia this is deemed racial profiling and if we did that the same people complaining that we don't do it would start complaining that we did do it. Imagine if we release a front page story that shows Indians are over represented in the murder of Indians in Australia. Then based on this we prevent all Indians migrating to Australia. We could treat them like the US do Arabs, Pakitanis, Africans or even how the US Airline treated Indias President.

The problem is India has made it a race issue and claimed ALL attacks are racist. Do you expect the Australian Government, people and Police to just say, "Yes India, this is correct all attacks are racial.". You need to understand, that if the police follow the racial line, then they limit their capacity to investigate, as they would then assume the attacker is a racist which then limits th profle of people they investigate.

Unlike India, our police do not have a tendency to kill large numbers of suspects then claim we close the case. Even the Indian Government admit this is a major problem in India.

Very little of this issue is about Indian students being attacked, it is about trade and saving face for India, and the fact is since 2007 the Indian Government have complaining about our relationship with China, our refusal to sell India uranium, that our Government does not value India as much as China.

So it is about crime, but has a lot to do with politics.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 05:22 AM
374
Vijayrajan


You are the same as Varun Shekar

You are joining the other ignorant uninformed "swallow what the media has to say " people in this forum

Please come and stay in Australia and then comment

Andrew Symonds an aboriginal??

You and the Indian media are the same...
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 05:09 AM
373
And some more interesting stuff on Indians in Australia

http://timesofindia....icleshow/5512562.cms

http://timesofindia....icleshow/5512487.cms

And when Indians are attacked, the Queensland police act quickly to make arrests. Please note that the ethnicity of the attackers has not been released by the police.

http://timesofindia....icleshow/5508451.cms

And finally, the Indian Goverment via their Brisbane consul, Mr. Singh, is sitting down with the police and community leaders to work through teh issues, just as the Chinese government did years ago - rather than yelling "racist" through the megaphone of the media.
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 05:00 AM
372
Vijayrajan

Mate, Andrew Symonds is not Aboriginal. He was born in Birmingham in the UK and one of his parents was West Indian. He was adopted in the UK and his adoptive parents migrated to Australia. Amother great example of people coming to Australia and reaching the top despite their skin colour. And before you try it on, he was removed from the Australian team for disciplinary issues related to drinking.

Can we believe anything you say? Do you know what you're taliking about?
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 04:53 AM
371
Any word on how you know that ambulances turn away from Indians in preference to whites yet Sasha?

How about telling us the steps the government should take to stop 'all these attacks' that you claim is so easy to do? Perhaps ban Indian students from buying petrol?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 04:45 AM
370
Oh Cmon Allan, Everyone knew that the attack in NSW and this particular attack was not racially motivated. In fact the essendon one was a fake one, the neighbour was quoted long back on this one. What about all the other attacks that are really racially motivated. How come the culprits are never caught unless it's an "ethnic" involved?
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 04:27 AM
369
@ The people who find some of the comments from Indians here inflammatory and unfair: Read the type of vitriol and vileness that spews from Op eds and blogs from such newspapers as the Melbourne Herald sun etc.

What I am saying is, don't think a few rude, upset or nationalistic people represent the views of all. Unfortunately that also works the other way and one should not assume that level headed, balanced and open views are also representative.

Crime statistics, vox pops and shallow journalism don't help give a true picture of what's going on. The fact that the vast majority of Australians who have made positive comments regarding India and tried to be balanced are probably doing so because this article was linked from a centre-left Newspaper similar to Outlook.

Racism is not the overall position of Australians. Parties that are overtly or covertly racist have little to no support except from disaffected idiots. While Xenophobia is an issue here, there is little endemic racism in Australia as understood in other countries: Ie: "I am racially superior to you." Those type of dickheads lurk on the fringes.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 04:23 AM
368
So it was insurance fraud rather than a racial attack:
http://www.theage.co...e-20100203-nbfr.html

And he couldn't even do that right. What a dickhead. Any comments from posters screaming about Australian racism here? How many of the "white attacks" mentioned in this article have now been found to be inflicted by Indians, non-whites, or self-inflicted? Anyone changing their opinions or are you just happy to keep wallowing in your prejudiced pigsty? I'll keep an eye out for apologies to all Australians on this blog.

I hope:
- This bloke is hugely embarassed
- In a great deal of pain
- Gets the book thrown at him in court.

I also hope the govt cracks down on the PR rort and keeps these dodgy Indian 'students' out of Australia. Any amount of money isn't worth it.

Decent Indian immigrants always welcome.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 04:21 AM
367
Vijayrajan, we agree there is racism against Indians in Australia. And we all want to do something about it. We disagree on how to deal with it. You want to deal with it by attacking protesting and causing a stink and getting peoples backs up. You wont recognise or acknowledge the documented fraud by Indians coming to Australia. You are looking through rose coloured glasses in assuming that all your people are angels and all of the (white) people are devils.
Please dont acknowledge or respond to this guy. He is a waste of oxygen.
Will
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 04:05 AM
366
This report in the Melbourne "The Age" newspaper should take some of the heat(pardon the pun)out of the argument. Here is an example of a self-inflicted injury as part of an attempt at insurance fraud being attributed to racial hatred. Nothing is further from the truth. Australians generally will shrug their shoulders and say "what an idiot" and that his racial origins are irrelevant.


Burned Indian faked attack to claim car insurance: police
February 3, 2010 - 7:08AM

An Indian man who said he was set alight by assailants near his Melbourne home last month accidentally burned himself while torching his car for an insurance claim, police allege.

Jaspreet Singh, 29, of Grice Crescent, Essendon, in the city's north, faced an out-of-sessions hearing early this morning before a bail justice at St Kilda Road police complex charged with making a false report to police and criminal damage with a view to gaining a financial advantage.

The case gained international headlines among a series of attacks by white Australians on Indian nationals in Melbourne.

Singh, who is in Australia on his wife's student visa, told police he was doused with petrol and set alight as he parked his car near his home early on Saturday, January 8.

Singh was taken to The Alfred hospital with burns to 15 per cent of his body, affecting his face, arms and hands.

But Detective Senior Constable Danielle O'Keefe of the arson and explosives squad told the hearing Singh suffered the burns while trying to torch his 2003 Ford Futura.

Detective O'Keefe said arson chemists and hospital staff had concluded the damage to the car, Singh's clothes and his injuries were not consistent with his story.

"Police inquiries have led us to believe that Mr Singh is in some financial difficulty and that he intended to sell his car but instead stood to gain $11,000 from an insurance claim out of this particular incident," she told the hearing.

Police had obtained security footage depicting Singh buying a 15-litre opaque plastic container and 15.96 litres of petrol on the day before the attack.

The container and other evidence was found at his unit when he was arrested yesterday, Detective O'Keefe said.

She said Singh had been very co-operative but denied all allegations.

His wife had been questioned about her knowledge of the incident, she said.

Burns were still obvious on Singh's face and neck, and he wore pressure bandages on his arms.

Through an interpreter, Singh told the hearing he and his wife planned a holiday to India, leaving on February 20 and returning in late April to visit his child and extended family.

Detective O'Keefe said police did not oppose bail but noted that Mr Singh was a potential flight risk.

The bail justice, who declined to be named, granted him bail with strict conditions banning him from contacting witnesses and attending points of international departure.

He must report to police three times a week and surrender his passport.

He will appear before the Melbourne Magistrates' Court on March 15.

At the time, police Detective Acting Senior Sergeant Neil Smyth described the attack as "a bit strange" and said there was no evidence the attack was racially motivated.

AAP
Greg Angelo
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 03:58 AM
365
Further to this, generally this article not as sensationalst and makes some good and valid points although some are off the mark.

For example, the comment about Indian students flashing iphone and laptops makes them a target. Every teenager irrespective of race has a laptop or iPhone or whatever and uses them in full public view, some end up being robbed because of it...of course this is not reported.

Also, the comments about "Those who are rich and have resided here for years vehemently deny that Australians are racist" is misleading. Money has nothings to do with this. My Mum and Dad, like many other Indian families at the time, came here with very little in their pockets. They worked hard to provide for their family, fitted in, made good friends of all nationalities and embraced the Australian way of life.

However we see many new Indians coming to Australia and their behaviour is totally opposite this is painting all Indians here with the same brush.

My Indian friends and family were and are welcome in Australia, however this relationship is unravelling fast and we are furious about it.
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 03:30 AM
364
I thought this is quite a balanced article.
But I agree that more media attention to this issue can risk flaring up of racial tension affecting a larger section of people, but can also arouse the authorities from the slumber of denial.
Hate crimes exist in the US. But the society does not downplay nor defend such crimes as mere law and order lapses citing statistical significance of # of crimes. The law and order authorities swiftly track down the offenders, the laws protect the victims and the justice system promptly punishes the offenders.
I do not know whether white Australians have racial biases- I have never lived there. However after reading comments from so many Australian readers in this forum I am convinced that if these commentators represent the majority opinion of Australia then Australia certainly has a significant proportion of people with racial biases.
DC
NEW YORK, United States
Feb 03, 2010 03:28 AM
363
vijayrajan, your arguments just go from bad to worse.

What you are spouting as facts are just statistics quoted in the media without naming a credible source or any context. You will find that in Victoria, the percentage of Indians attacked is very small compared to the overall crime rate. Unfortunately it is still proporationately high given the size of the Indian community but this is weighted the propoprtion of Indians working in jobs that expose them to criminal elements.

Also, can you please be more specific of the 33 Indians...how many of these were victims of hate related crime as opposed say, Indian worker revenge killings, or Indian husbands killing their Indian wives.

Your arguments about cricket and the Aussie cricket team are completely laughable. Aussies play all sport tough and hard but are generally pretty fair. Sure they may sledge, but I very much doubt the majority of it is racist given the public attitudes and the potential penalities involved (please prove to me that is was).

By the way, Gautam Gupta is way out of his depth with on this issue. He is a complete lightweight. What is needed from the Indian community is real leadership.
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 03:00 AM
362
Anwaar:
"I believe that most of the attacks on Indians in Australia were carried out by sociopaths, some of whom may have been further motivated by racist instincts."

"Sociopath" is such a nice word. Colloquially they are known here as "dickheads". Although there may be a racial motivation, it's more likely that Indians are perceived as easy targets who tend not to fight back.

Its also worth noticing that until the Indian Media beatup, nobody regarded Indians as a problem at all. Yes, you have the groups Eve Teasing on trains, but thumping somebody for harassing your girlfriend, sister or friend is not a racially motivated attack - its a dickhead motivated attack.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 02:53 AM
361
You are a sad person Vijayrajan, firstly you say how great India is for having an Italian born prime minister then you denigrate me for being a 'slaves of white racist Australians' - you are gamut of contradictions. For you reference, i am not Indian, i am Australian, i have lived here my whole life and am from an Indian background. Im glad that my parents left India, because i would hate to be like you. I would be embarrassed to call myself Indian with your views...Australia is a land of immigrants so maybe you should come out here and see for yourself rather than relying on such ludicrous reporting to form your opinion.

Its quite obvious that you really dont understand (through your stupidity or your naivety) the issue, you are confusing yourself and everyone who reads your ridiculous statements, for the sake of the rest of us, please stop posting your idiosyncratic slander. I really doubt that you have been outside of India with the comments that you make - Australia is quite a safe place to live compared to the rest of the world! Your comments about Indians being the last to take the law into their own hands, mate, they are the first to take the law into their own hands, they will be the first to find some loophole in the law and exploit it! Why do you think the UK government has restricted visas for people from India, particularly the Punjab area?? You must be so sheltered that you dont even know whats happening in your front yard, you have some ridiculous archaic views and i am glad that people like you stay in India!
Aditya
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 02:40 AM
360
vijayrajan:

"Why dont you understand that racism is not new to Australia"

Um...

Racism started in Australia in around 1770, when the Brits arrived and took pot-shots at the Aboriginees. It was first put into law with the declaration of Terra Nullius in 1788 with the commencement of european settlement. It existed in law in some form or another until the end of the white Australia policy in 1975. During much of this time, the Aboriginees tradition life was interrupted by Christian Missionaries who attempted to "lead them to salvation".

Racism started in India in ancient times with the jati, and the caste system has been in place in one form or another for over 1500 years. Despite claims that Caste is not related to race, lighter skin is still seen as more beautiful, and there are a plethora of skin-whitening products on the market in India. Although outlawed in 1950, it still effectively divides society and opporunity in India. Children of lower castes have less educational opportunites, and do most of the menial work. Nobody religious bothers with the Sudras, because they don't qualify for Salvation anyway.

Don't even attempt to preach to me about my country.

And if you lose at cricket, how is that racist? Are we expected to let you win because you are a different colour? Remember, it was an Indian crowd who chanted "Monkey" at Andrew Symonds.

I'd make some smart-alec comment here about "The pot calling the kettle black", but you'd probably call that out as a racist slant. In the meantime, lets ban "White Christmas" and "Little Brown Jug" from the radio.

Australian's don't hate indians, but nor are we tolerant of uninformed rants from people like you, no matter what colour you are.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 02:40 AM
359
vijayrajan:

"Why dont you understand that racism is not new to Australia"

Um...

Racism started in Australia in around 1770, when the Brits arrived and took pot-shots at the Aboriginees. It was first put into law with the declaration of Terra Nullius in 1788 with the commencement of european settlement. It existed in law in some form or another until the end of the white Australia policy in 1975. During much of this time, the Aboriginees tradition life was interrupted by Christian Missionaries who attempted to "lead them to salvation".

Racism started in India in ancient times with the jati, and the caste system has been in place in one form or another for over 1500 years. Despite claims that Caste is not related to race, lighter skin is still seen as more beautiful, and there are a plethora of skin-whitening products on the market in India. Although outlawed in 1950, it still effectively divides society and opporunity in India. Children of lower castes have less educational opportunites, and do most of the menial work. Nobody religious bothers with the Sudras, because they don't qualify for Salvation anyway.

Don't even attempt to preach to me about my country.

And if you lose at cricket, how is that racist? Are we expected to let you win because you are a different colour? Remember, it was an Indian crowd who chanted "Monkey" at Andrew Symonds.

I'd make some smart-alec comment here about "The pot calling the kettle black", but you'd probably call that out as a racist slant. In the meantime, lets ban "White Christmas" and "Little Brown Jug" from the radio.

Australian's don't hate indians, but nor are we tolerant of uninformed rants from people like you, no matter what colour you are.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 12:29 AM
358
Let's see if the Indian media covers this:

Police allege an Indian man .. who claimed he was set alight by assailants near his Melbourne home last month .. accidentally burned himself while torching his car for an insurance claim.

29-year-old JASPREET SINGH .. of Essendon ..has faced an out-of-sessions hearing...charged with making a false report to police and criminal damage.

SINGH told police he was doused with petrol and set alight as he parked his car near his home early on January 8.

He'll appear before the Melbourne Magistrates' Court on March 15.
Rob
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 03, 2010 12:17 AM
357
I too think only some Australians are racists, just as some Indians, like Varun Shekhar and Vijayrajan, are racists. I believe that most of the attacks on Indians in Australia were carried out by sociopaths, some of whom may have been further motivated by racist instincts.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Feb 02, 2010 10:53 PM
356
Will
Sydney, Australia
if you haven't observed the list of facts at the beginning of this story then I am reproducing them here for your benefit and record.
* 130 Indians attacked countrywide, the Indian high commission says. Of these, 30 were students.
* 1,447 incidents of crime against Indians in 2007-08 have been reported in Victoria alone. The state is crime-prone, and has a force of 13,000, including volunteers, to police a population of four million.
* 33 Indians died in violent attacks between 2004 and 2009, says Federation of Indian Students of Australia spokesperson Gautam Gupta. Of these, six died in 2009. Nitin Garg was stabbed to death in 2010.
* On Jan 5, the Indian government issued an advisory to Indian students in Australia
asking them to take certain precautionary measures while traveling.
* 33.2% visa applications turned down by Australia between July 1 and October 31, 2009, up from 6.5 per cent for the corresponding period in 2008. These applications were mostly turned down because of documentation fraud.

These are the facts.you can also provide your own facts or evidence to substantiate your claim or to repudiate the Indian official claim.simply saying 'hear-say' will not help in a serious debate.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 10:47 PM
355
Vijayrajan


As i've read the posts made you, how could label all the people living in Australia as racist by watching cricket for like you said, "growing up watching cricket"....I Think your commenting australians as rascists based on cricket doesnt make much sense at all. Please try to think outside cricket. And as far as i know, people here atleast donot discriminate you as Madrasi, North Indian, Bihari or whatever it maybe!
Vijay
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 10:31 PM
354
Alan
Melbourne, Australia

It may sound as racial to you but its not intentional.Do you think insulting,intimidating,Injuring badly and even killing on racial grounds is less harsher than making any racial comments.Two wrongs of course do not make one right.But that's how earth has evolved.
Please remember I have not shot a comment at Symmonds alone but against all those Australins who are racists.I never said all Australians as racists.Dont try to put your words in my mouth or try to spread disinformation against Indians.
Calling Indians as 'curry' during a cricket match which in fact is Indian's staple food also amounts to a racist comment.Every Australian is typical Australian like how every Indian is a typical Indian.Why I have to separate myself from the rest.Indians have been lying low so far but no more.Why should they tolerate some one's racism after all Australia is not making any charity to Indians by allowing them into their country.
Going by the number of reported cases of racial abuse and attacks,the admittance of the government and the top cops that the racial attacks did take place and have since increased is a mirror to the Australian society in a civilized world.Taking into account the number of attacks in Australia today it stands number one in the world as the most racist country.
when it comes to a question of self defence any retaliation by a victim of a circumstance cannot be attributed as violence as long as the law makers and law enforcers fail to protect the victimised community.The earlier the australians realise this would bebetter.otherwise they may loose a dependable ally in any future war on terrorism.England has realised this long back.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 09:59 PM
353
While I have a first hand experience of sensational Indian media coverage of post 9/11 events, I find this article to be pretty balanced. There has been issue of attacks on Indians in Australia. The reason may be racial or normal robbery. But it presented opinions from every side. I have seen far more sensational and biased coverage specially in western media with incidents involving their own citizens in other countries.
Maha
NJ, United States
Feb 02, 2010 09:35 PM
352
Oh, God ! this is full scale invasion. At the latest count there are 350 posts mostly presumably from Australia. I don't know any thing about racism. Nor do I think it's anyting about race. It's the economy, stupid!

If the bumb Indian media thought it will be cake-walk pelting stone into this bee-hive, they now don't know where to look.
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
Feb 02, 2010 09:34 PM
351
Aditya
Melbourne, Australia

I am also not sure and understand why some Indians or rather some UnIndians staying in Australia have become the slaves of the white racist Australians and taking sides and denigrating Indians staying in Australia and those in India.This world is not perfect.Some fight as castes while some others as communities like how crusaders and jihadis fought then and even now and the sectarian wars between various sects amongst Christians and Muslims.Then its is irrelevant whether its casteism or racism.on racist violence I simply referred to it as only a worst case scenario.Indians will be the last people to take law into their hands.But its adversaries have a wrong impression that the patience and their tolerance as their weakness.
I have traveled to many parts of the world and toured India extensively.Probably you have gone out of India for the very first time and think Australia is the only eden on earth.Even if I am living in India in a thatched house I am not like a toad in a well.Yes I wear blinkers only to alert others to be watchful and careful of guys like you.
I am proud of my country and always optimistic that we are on right path to progress and prosperity.On white skin what I said is that Indians became the slaves of the British only because of their weakness for white skin like how the country today is suffering for having accepted a white Italian lady to lead us.I have no special mention to make when it comes to attraction for white or black skin.If you are not able to follow what I wrote or properly comprehend then I can only pity upon youand your stupidity
I am not in any denial mode if you are talking of the caste system of India.I have always stood by our poor irrespective of their caste and I have always been saying that casteism in India is on the waning though not significantly at the moment but if the progress is on fast track then this evil can be ultimately eradicated.Going by the increasing number of inter-caste marriages in India I am optimistic of India thus becoming a stronger nation than ever before.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 08:10 PM
350
MN

Logical and sensible people speak like you..... well said!!!!
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 08:04 PM
349
Varun Shekar

I think you are joining the other ignorant uninformed "swallow what the media has to say " people in this forum

Please come and stay in Australia and then comment
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 08:01 PM
348
No and it's interesting how Varun has jumped to the worst possible explanation. I would never imply such a thing. Are you accusing me of being racist? Well I am an Indian! Satire aside, I was implying that maybe these students do not live in crime prone areas, are not driving taxis when they should be studying ( before you start saying anything come to melb and catch a taxi - all will be revealed!) and do not travel alone (even after repeatedly being told not to do so at such early hrs in the morning) and not carry visibly expensive items on them.
MN
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 07:58 PM
347
Hi Varun

To answer your first question..... Unfortunately Yes!!!!! The reasons are obvious....

To answer your second question ..... No it does not. But the reasons are obvious again..........
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 07:54 PM
346
CP, you are shallow. If this Outlook series of articles shows anything( and it shows a lot) it shows that India has a very open society, with a free, lively press that you wouldn't see in most other developing countries, and perhaps even in a few developed ones. The articles look at the recent attacks from different angles, and one of them mentions the dubious behaviour of some of the Indian students, without of course justifying the violence. It also mentions unemployment in Australia as being one of the causes of the turbulence. It quotes an Australian official who asserts that not all the violence is racially motivated. There are other nuanced comments as well.
Where else in the third world would you see such a variety of comments and perspectives on racial incidents involving a specific country's nationals? China, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia?
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 02, 2010 07:46 PM
345
Is MN suggesting the Indian students from the private colleges have it coming to them? Even if the credentials of a few of these students are questionable, it still doesn't justify the attacks on them.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 02, 2010 07:40 PM
344
Varun, It's not an "Indian" racism issue. It's a violence issue. And the violence against all - yes folks hard as it may be to believe it, but there are non Indians who are getting bashed, etc... and this group is actually in the majority as opposed to what you might be thinking - the Indians students are the only ones to be attacked. I do have another point to make - something that no one has pointed out . Why is it that we do not hear of the Indians students from universities such as University of Melb, Monash, Swinburne, Deakin, RMIT - why aren't they getting bashed? WHy is it mostly students from these private run colleges the most affected?
MN
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 07:22 PM
343
Many Australians in this forum are in denial. There is no excuse for these repeated attacks. It's not about India's poverty, caste issues, language issues, gender issues, not even cricket issues. A bunch of innocent, peaceful, largely law abiding Indians are assaulted over and over. The first thing to do is to denounce it, and admit there's a problem.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 02, 2010 06:52 PM
342
Hi everyone.

I have contributed my fair share to this appalling article in Outlook magazine.....

Please refer to my comments 121, 127, 130, 138, 150, 176, 180, 240, 265, 266,

Looking at all the comments I feel more proud to be called an “Aussie Indian”

I am proud of all my Australian mates no matter what race they are...

All I have to say is this

Indian media ..you don’t understand the power of us individuals getting our voice heard .

You think you can create chaos and disharmony amongst us for the sake of you D**k heads making more money ...

I challenge you..

MR Editor-in-chief Vinod Mehta,

Try to do that .. Your Magazine and the so called “ludicrous reporting “media will perish very soon......
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 06:01 PM
341
Varun Shekhar - no need to make excuses for the discrimination that exists in India, it has been present for many many years and it wont change any time soon. I am of Indian origin and have lived here pretty much my whole life (30 years) with my family, of course i have encountered racism, but that hasnt stopped me from living a normal life and not living in fear of this discrimination. What im trying to say is that racism exists everywhere, and more prominently in some places and you cant get on a moral high ground about discrimination in another country when there is extreme discrimination right under your own nose! Surely one should address the same problem in ones backyard before jumping up and down about it in your neighbours?
Aditya
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 05:51 PM
340
Vijayrajan, not sure what you are trying to argue there but maybe you should re-read my post i never equated racism and caste, i mentioned it as a form of discrimination as racism is. Maybe you shouldnt equate violence with racism, you can be a racist and not be violent, so your comment about if Indians were racist they would have thrown down a violent challenge to Australians is really quite silly.

I think you must be living under a rock or a small boulder there in India or you have very big blinkers on and not seeing whats in front of you...your description of India is quite idealistic, maybe you should venture out see India...

Lastly your comment about fair skin always being attractive, mate either you are really stupid and dont realise your own rascial connotation or you are just in denial like most Indians are...
Aditya
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 05:46 PM
339
The issue at hand is not racism as this article implies. Was it racism (by "white" Australians)when 3 Indians murdered and burnt another Indian Student recently in Australia? Was it racism by "white Australians when a group of Asiana "attacked" Indian students? And why is it that only Indians are being attacked? What is happening to all the Pakistanis, SriLankans etc??? The white Aussies cannot distinguish between a Srilankan or an Indian or a Pakistani - so why are they not being attacked?
You know it bothers me that instead of investigating and writing articles the journalists are opting for sensationalism and creating more problems. Why have I or my many friends not been interviewed to get our side of the story? I am of Indian origin and I have exprienced more racism from my fellow countrymen and women. I was sympathetic initially but it has come to a point where I am thinking why are all these students coming to do such short courses (who does a double diploma in IT and Hospitality - which is being offered in one of the private Unis here!) instead of going to other countries if Australia is so racist? Is it because they know that if they go to countries suckh as UK it will be harder for them to survive and because there is more acknowledged racism racism there. where all Indians are also called Pakis? Or why not Singapore? You can easily see how Indians are treated. And why not the US - is it because they know that there is definitely more racism experienced there and that they won't put up with any nonsense in these countries? Or why not just stay in India? Maybe because ( as much as I love the country and it hurts me to say this - even though it is not the country but the people who have made it this way), because there is even more racism that occurs there and less opportunities. There is an old saying that can be summed up - that when you point a finger at someone there are the other fingers pointing right back at you. So before calling anyone racists - whatever the nationality, look at your own country and fix the problems there first.
MN
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 04:40 PM
338
I personally feel the Indian students from North India feel the pinch as because they feel so inferior to others...i think. this is completely my comments as they are the ones who do taxi driving and the survey by the student communities in Australia suggest that out of 100 indian students 78% of them are from North India. Guys please think for yourself...why u have to go all the way to Australia and drive taxis why cant that been done in Delhi...just a thought.
Anand Samy
Chennai / Melbourne, India
Feb 02, 2010 04:39 PM
337
This is (and was) sure a cause of concern to all of us if Indian, or any other community is specifically being targeted.

We know that media is prone to exaggerated things at times, and we are used to it.

I very much know the rudeness of Punjabi villages, so I had my doubts over "poor innocence Indian student" image, in this whole drama.
But today after reading all these comments from Australians, I am confused again.

We have both kind of comments from "Argumentative Indians" here, which is indeed the foundation of democracy.

But Australians seems outright, either in denial, or on offensive.

I will conclude, may be Australians are not racist generally; may be these attacks are not purely racist; but sorry to say, Australian seems way too much intolerant as a society.
None whosoever found anything wrong with them.
Bunty
Hsinchu, Taiwan
Feb 02, 2010 04:17 PM
336
Another BREAKING NEWS fellow indians,

Look what Brits have done - They stopped accepting student visas in North india for some time. The statistics is that last year same time there were 1800 visas filed and this year it is 13800 filled. Thanks to negative australian media coverage. check out the links guys - http://o3.indiatimes...0/02/01/4998767.aspx
I think Indians like me and you all deserve this treatment. Good work my fellow indians and i am surely Ashamed of you and the way you guys spoiled your own opportunity.
Lucky me to be a CEO of a company in Australia and I am not a cookery or hairdressing or community welfare student.
eagerly waiting for the comments by fellow indians.
Anand Samy
Chennai / Melbourne, India
Feb 02, 2010 04:09 PM
335
Hi guys,

I would like to say from bottom of my heart that " I AM ASHAMED TO BE AN INDIAN". i living in melbourne for the past 15 yrs and i was a student here in Australia before i got my permanent job. This a disgrace to every honest indian for what happened. I have so many Aussie friends including Italians and greek and honestly they are so good i cant describe.
No one has crossed their line and it is a clean and healthy friendship but now because of few "villagers" coming from Punjab has ruined the relationship here in Australia. I am sorry but this is a disgrace to Indian community and all i say is if any indian dont like to be here in Australia, please leave the country and dont try to change the society.
I had enough and now i feel the harmony of Australia is been destroyed and more than that few Indian guys who got Citizenship here and call themselves as the representative of Indian students should be chucked out.
I also advice to check the background of the Indian student association whom the president is a bouncer in a nightclub in melbourne and the spokesmen mr. gupta is jobless sitting at home with his young family. This is disgrace to everyone.
PLEASE INDIANS INCLUDING ME WHO DONT LIKE AUSTRALIA PLEASE LEAVE. we cant change MNS political party bashing people who migrated from Bihar (near by state) how u can change Australia. Thanks guys for the damage
Anand Samy
Chennai / Melbourne, India
Feb 02, 2010 03:27 PM
334
Alan of Melbourne - Vs comment is typically Indian. You should see what they have to say here: http://timesofindia....ticlelist/222023.cms

Love and respect all round.

Like you, I have completely changed my opinions about Indians after reading some of the bile there and here.

I came to these web sites because I was interested in what the Indian Media and public had to say about Australia. Now I know that is largely ugly. At first I was worried - because I didn't want people to think of Australia and Australians that way, and because I thought that it was unfortunate that Indian students seemed to be being targeted.

Now I no longer care so much. The Indians are really not very nice. And not just to Australians, but to each other. Check out Raj Thackery and Shiv Sena (India's Hitler and Nazi Party). Read what the southerners have to say about the northerners and Punjabis have to say about themselves, other Indians and the rest of the world.

And they really don't do Irony.
CP
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 03:02 PM
333
Vijayrajan

Your comment about Symonds 'tribe' being closer to monkeys is not only completely wrong scientifically, but extremely racist and offensive. If you're an example of the typical Indian, you've confirmed that Indians are far, far more racist than the average Australian.

I said it before, but I'll say it again. This discussion is a real eye-opener. Unfortunately, my opinion of Indians is plummeting further and further.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 02:58 PM
332
Alan
Melbourne, Australia

I never accused the entire Australian population as racist.So far I have was speaking of only the Austraila cricketers and when a cricket team which is the life line of Australians are not protesting against some team members for their ugly behavior then the blame goes on the entire country.Rest is like a soap opera like a daily broadcasted episode where reports pouring in where an Indian was attacked and hurt yesterday and tomorrow.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 02:45 PM
331
CP
Melbourne, Australia

why not to start with cricket .you know we know Australians as racists ever since our teenage days when we used to watch cricket matches for hours together and how the Australians were sledging and passing racist remarks how the Australian crowds were making cat calls and displaying abusive posters and placards.like how cricket is fanaticism for Australian so is is cricket is like a religion for India.
I pity for poor Symmonds an aborigine himself but seems to have converted into a racist Australian.It was Symmonds who first abused Harbhajan Singh to which he retorted in kind and deservingly so.Probably the Australians still thinking that the Indian cricketers haven't grown up or reformed.A few more exchanges in kind will silence the racist squad.If you have seen the video clipping then you wont ask this question again .What Bhajji said to Symmonds is monkey which anyway every one's ancestors they are and even more closer to Symmonds tribe.When the Australians are so proud of Kangaroos what hurts them if they are called as monkeys too.If they can call Indians as 'curry' why not they gracefully accept what Indian call them.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 02:22 PM
330
Liked that very first comment by Manish Banerjee.

Follow that old Arabic proverb: "Better the ganji (gruel) in the house than the feast in the neighbor's", look inward, and develop India.

When the OZs want to come in and take a piece of that cake, keep them out ;-)
Srinivas Shastri
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 02:19 PM
329
Vijayrajan - your preparedness to judge an entire nation as racist based on the activities of a hyper-aggressive and obnoxious sporting team says more about your prejudices than it does about Australia.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 02:09 PM
328
Will
Sydney, Australia

You mean to say then that there is no rule of law prevailing anywhere in Australia?.That's bad and a shame as well.I have not come to any conclusion after a couple of incidents that the Australians indeed are racists..But when the very Australian government and top cops accepted gracefully that it does happen in Australia.then don't you think I was not wrong.
There are Indians and too many of them in America .Even when America is often accused of as racial tinder box the immigrants and citizens of Indian origin are not given such a bad deal as Australians did.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 02:05 PM
327
VIJAYRAJAN from BANGALORE, INDIA,

It's about cricket for you isn't? I think every one of your posts has mentioned the cricket...We get it - aussie cricketers are racist. So, while we're at the cricket...

You still haven't answered my question, and since I don't speak Hindi, I need a Hindi speaker.

What were they yelling at Andrew Symonds at the cricket in India?
CP
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 02:02 PM
326
If you're here for a degree Sasha, it's clearly not one based on logic or science.

1) Indian students are working in dangerous activities such as taxi driving and convenience store work
2) If the proportion of these Indians being attacked is significantly higher than non-Indians in those activities, then we can say there's probably an anti-Indian element.
3) If the proportion of Indians attacked is similar or less than non-Indians, then it's probable that anti-Indian feeling is not an issue.
4) Therefore, before we can say either way, we need to know this information.
5) Since we don't have this information, the accusations of an entire nation being complicit in racial attacks on Indians is a complete beat-up.

Is that simple enough for you?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 01:50 PM
325
Greg
Melbourne, Australia

So far the Asians excepting for some extremist Muslims have shown incredible and exemplary restraint even when abused and provoked though not committing any physical injury.But when it comes to physical injury then the law of survival demands retaliation when the law of the land and and the law makers and law enforcers fails to protect.For me how much the Australians are racist is well known since I was a teenager when we used to watch cricket matches on TV and your brothers used to sledge the poor Asian cricketers.We used to call the Australians then as stinking British craps for their ugly behavior.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 12:56 PM
324
David Morgan of Sydney. Are they bogans? I mean really? How do you know?

I think you might be surprised to know that there are certain african, asian and middle eastern communities also committing crimes against Indians. But those aren't racist are they?

Do you know how many of the crimes are being committed by these bogan whites? What proportion? Do tell.
CP
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 12:49 PM
323
Pratyush from Melbourne, Australia writes:

"Why do Indian people want to go to Australia? Because they know even idiotic, unskilled, beer-swilling labourers can afford a two storey house and a Landcruiser."

Et cetera, et cetera.

And you live in Australia, mate? So it was easy for you to get here and out achieve all us idiotic beer swilling labourers. Couldn't cut it back in India? Not good enough for home?

So you thought you could slum it with the convict trash, and then belittle us with your obnoxious rant.

Really, Indians do not get irony.
CP
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 12:38 PM
322
I agree David Morgan
Will
Sydney, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 12:34 PM
321
You're shooting from the hip there Will, and that is totally irrelevant. Jayant Patel is just another psychopath and we already have plenty of them here.

This issue is about the types of people in Australia that bother immigrants. The people responsible are the thugs in the western suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne. They collect the dole as well as engaging in drug taking and crime. There is an attitude of entitlement among these "bogans" who live in what used to be called the "working class" suburbs. These types naturally do not like to be shown up by hard-working Indians.
David Morgan
Sydney, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 12:30 PM
320
Tell me Vijayrajan of Bangalore, India, what they yelling at Andrew Symonds at the cricket?

This article is just more sensationist rot. Where would you rathter be Dalit - in India or Australia? How are the christians getting on in India? The Muslims? How many Dowry murders are there in India each year? Plain old murders? Culpable homicides? (I'll give you a hint - close to 3 times the per capita rate of Australia).

Do Indians even get the irony of their rants on this forum and others like the Times of India?

Now, are there racists in Australia? Of course. Are some of the attacks on Indians in Australia racial? Of course.

But don't call an entire nation racist because of the few. After all, some of the attacks were committed by people who weren't white (after all, only white people are racist). Some of the attacks were even committed by Indians.

This magazine states that some of the attacks were committed by Asians, some by Africans, some by people of Middle Eastern background, and "many by white Australians." I guess those are the racist attacks.

OK then - tell me how many? I really don't know.

I've seen a lot of the commentary coming from Indian nationals around the world and in India and it is awful, racist, bigoted and nasty. But I don't think that all Indians are racist or the whole country.
CP
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 12:28 PM
319
I would like to congratulate the author of this article. To me it seemed fair and balanced. Unfortunately, some Australians, including those in the Australian Press don't seem to have read the article and have made all sorts of accusations implying that the article is hysterical and making accusations that all Australians are racist. I don't think the article makes any judgement, it just presents opinions from various points in the spectrum of opinions.
I am sorry that some of Australia's newest arrivals are subject to racism and violent attacks. Unfortunately, racist remarks directed at newly arrived immigrants has been an occurence in Australia for many years. My mother who migrated from Malta to Australia with her sister and brothers just after the Second World War. They each spoke and understood English. Sometimes, however, they would converse in Maltese in public and hear comments from English-only speaking Austrlaians such as "Why don't they learn to speak English or go back to where they came from ?". My mother and her siblings would shock them with a response in English. Migrants from Mediteranean Europe were labelled with the derogatory names of "Wogs" and "Dagos". When European migration eased and was surpassed with migration from South-East Asia, these people were labelled with other derogatory labels that I believe are too offensive to repeat in print.
However, every person whether they are Indian or not should have the right to go about their lawful day-to-day business without fear of physical attack or abuse whether it is based on racism or not. Unfortunately, it is not only Indian students who are victims of violence in Melbourne. This is a problem that the Victorian Government has to grapple with and overcome. People in Victoria should be taught to respect others. It should be part of the educational curriculum and if a person fails to demonstrate their civic responsibilities, then the criminal justice system should deal with them appropriately.
civic duties
Greg
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 12:27 PM
318
Elan and JCollin

After reading the hateful, ignorent and bigoted comments by certain Indians I think I finally understand their problem.

Here it is:

The English and to a lesser degree the French and Portugese owned you for hundreds of years.

They played the Indians (Aryans/Dravidians/Others) off against each other, and Indians were only too happy to participate. The ruling classes of India were so desperate to control their Indian brothers, they would kill them and enslave them for the English, just to get at the riches the English threw to them. These few bigoted, ignorant and hateful Indians are now ashamed how their ancestors behaved that they now want to take it out on Australia. As they see Australians as representing their former European masters.

I also concluded that these same Indians are bitter as their birth lands are now controlled by Pakistan. This is why they often treat Pakistanis with contempt, and exhibit great hate towards them, even though they are the same race as the Indian populace. But it could be becasue they are Muslims.

Most importantly, I believe that the main reason that sections of the Indian Government have been happy for this to boil over and for the India media to spread lies is because Australia prefers China over India when it comes to doing business, and we won't sell uranium to India.

Now I can't solve all your other probelms but I can suggest that if you convince the Australian public to vote Liberals in the Federal election we will sell you uranium, and then all these problems will disappear.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 12:22 PM
317
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayant_Patel

Did you see the (mostly white) victims of this guy and their families protesting and jumping up and down, holding traffic-stopping protests? Is there some kind of organised anti Indian movement to stop the growing number of health professionals from India who are putting OUR lives at risk? No, our Government lets more and more in every year.
Will
Sydney, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 12:16 PM
316
@ Sasha

Statistically Victoria IS safer than India. Do you have data to suggest otherwise? If you do, simply reveal them. Certainly the murder rate in Australia is 60% lower than the murder rate per capita in India. This is FACT.

Is driving a taxi in Melbourne safer than sitting at home in India? Probably not. But is that a racial risk or an occupational risk? Give me data if you have some, but you need to be mindful that taxi drivers have had the crap beaten out of them for years before Indians arrived.

Working late at fast food joints is dangerous too. If it isn't why do all of the white teenagers have their parents insist on picking them up when they finish work? Because walking through poorly lit streets at night is dangerous for all races - even whites.

In terms of Brumby's statement that not all attacks are racist; how is that not a fair statement?

The Indian press went into overdrive about Ranjodh Singh's death being racist and has barely reported the fact that that 3 Indians have been charged with the murder. In fact the Hindustan Times reported that Australians had been arrested and did not correct the story. So just this example shows that NOT ALL attacks are racist. It also gives an indication of the integrity of the Indian media.

Besides, it is mathematically impossible for all attacks to be racist. No group of 400,000 people in Australia is immune from assault or murder regardless of race. As I have posted before 400,000 Australias are likely to face 3200 attacks in any year. This is statistical FACT. SO is 3200 attacks on whites just bad luck and every attack on Indians racist? How is that possible?

Brumby has no credibility if he says that all of the attacks are racist when clearly many are not, especially when the attackers are Indian.

Yes, he can sit down with the victims, but will that stop some moron beating up a taxi driver at 2am on a Friday night? Will sanctions or banning Aussie cricketers from the IPL stop some moron from attacking someone when the threat of jail doesn't?

As for your preference of Howard over Rudd; I find it surprising that you can show such distain for Hanson but admire Howard who copied Hanson's rhetoric and policies.
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 12:06 PM
315
Vijayrajan, you assume that the people who attack Indians are all vicious racist white people. Look at the facts.
Did you know white people here get bullied and beaten up too? Yes by Middle Eastern gangs. Indians are constantly riding public transport without tickets. Like the British, they are constantly breaching their visas, with the Indians working more than the 20 hours allowed. Do the "white" Australian authorities target them or audit them for this unlawful behaviour? I agree there is racism and there needs to be something done, but pissing people off doesnt score any points.
Will
Sydney, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 12:04 PM
314
All I have to say is everyone should also read an article published by this very magazine on the very same day as this article, about the 'fairness' of skin debate in India...
And don't forget to read the posts on there too!! Here's a link to it

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264026

If that doesn't raise issues about the colour of ones skin- I would say that this article is just the pot calling the kettle black.
Priya
Sydney, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 11:47 AM
313
Sasha,

How is the debate going on in Delhi any different to that that is taking place here!

Indian groups are coming and protesting and screaming racists.
Governments saying, whoa wait a minute, lets have a look at the facts first.
Police groups admitting that some attacks are in fact racially motivated.

End result is just the same...lots of talk but no bona fide solutions!!

The Indian community does not want to discuss or debate the issue but simply wants to shout down all other opinions.

Varun Shekhar - I expect the Indian media to report the facts and not sensationalise or exaggerate events that are occuring in Australia. The first response in the Indian media is to cry Racist Attack whenever something happens even though the facts show otherwise (include attacks by Indians on Indians, or insurance scams, or random assaults and robberies).
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 11:22 AM
312
Allan, Whatever form of legal work immigrants or anyone does, they should be safe. Australia has a moral responsiblity towards it. We don't want this to become another Joburg or LA. It's that simple. Like Delhi has an issue with safety for women after dark. Indian laws and democracy allows the media there to debate it, women's group protest for more safety as everyone knows it's a genuine concern. Feminsits there accuse of the government being male chauvanists and the debate continues. If India can allow such a debate for safety to thrive, why can't Australia be open too? The delhi government till date has not come out and said there are not rapists there. On the other hand, they sympathise with the victim and they try and address it. Women are allowed to debate their concerns. People migrate to Australia thinking it's a free country and it's the government's responsibility to ensure this freedom---freedom to work in a safe envirnoment. If they fail to do it, they should not be in power.They are here to proect everyone and not behave like a mafia.

Union jack off my flag
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 11:12 AM
311
Ethnic Indians in Australia are being attacked, and the motive in many cases is racial, if not racist. What is the big complication here? Of course, the Indian media and government are going to comment adversely on it, since it happening so frequently. It's not just one or two incidents. People are seeing a pattern. What do you expect the Indian media and government to do, be totally silent. Or perhaps suggest, as some posters here have, that the Indians are partly bringing this onto themselves!
In response to Aditya, yes India has many social problems. It's a poor, overpopulated,semi-feudal( though dynamic), extremely diverse country with a legacy of poverty that originates in the colonial era.
Do these conditions by themselves disqualify all Indians, every single one of them, from commenting on the attacks on ethnic Indians in Australia? That's a ridiculous position, if you are maintaining it.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 02, 2010 11:06 AM
310
Yes there have been attacks on Indians Vijayrajan.

BUT - have there been more attacks than on non-Indians in the same risky activities?

AND - were all these attacks by whites or other ethnic groups?

No one knows.

So if you've done the research perhaps you could enlighten us all? If not, perhaps you'll stop showing off your ignorance?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 11:00 AM
309
Alan
Melbourne, Australia

If you are an Australian yourself then you must be eiher not reading your daily newspapers or watching TV however biased they are. But the government on record said that there have been attacks taking place on Indians in particular and some of them indeed are racial.How many of those attacks you want to wait and watch before you can conclude it really as racial- two,three or a dozen of them.?The Australians have proven it often on cricketing field through their racial remarks interpreted smartly by the Australian media as sledging in kind.You know the Australian players are supposed to be educated and have some social awareness.Right?
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 10:48 AM
308
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Thats not what I asked for nor looking for.Your links do not satisfy me.
Why dont you understand that racism is not new to Australia.We have seen it since our younger days when we used to get glued to the TV watching cricket matches and the Australians when ever feel threatened used the sledging shamelessly.It was seen being done mostly against visiting Asian teams.Earlier the Aussies started it as intimidating tool to create fear in the opposition but later they started employing when ever the opposition got an upper hand over it.They as well their crony umpires were found vulnerable if they sense defeat and will employ the tricks not written anywhere in the book.Such are the Australians the crap that the British left there while the British as such are more gracious.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 10:43 AM
307
Sorry my response is towards pete
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 10:39 AM
306
Vijayrajan, you haven't provided proof that Indians are being preferentially attacked by whites in Australia yet. Why are you still saying they are? Would it hurt too much to admit you're wrong?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 10:39 AM
305
Brian, If you can presume things I can presume things too. Finally what's the difference between your presumption and my presumption. You said I'm 100% Indian with an aussie passport. And I'm saying that you are 100% british with an aussie passport.

Allan, The Australian government should meet with foreigners affected in street crime and reassure them. Till now Brumby has said only one thing:that Victroria is the safest place and all attacks are not racist. If he's a good statesman, he should sit with the Indian community leaders and talk to themface to face and find out what's going on. Listening is veyr important. It's good diplomacy too. How comebrumby has gone all the way to India to meet Indian leaders but never bothered to meet the victims of crime here? He's got all the time to speak to the Indian mediabut no time to meet people affected. you get my point?

Reconciliation begins with talking. Not denying. There is no need to accept or deny. But there is a need to listen. Brumby and Rudd has not done that and that's surely because they are scared of losing white votes. They are bigots. Howard was so much better. We knew what we were getting into at least.
Rudd is a snake
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 10:38 AM
304
Agreed Alan, and I am not telling him to go home at all, rather than to just simply pull his head in and and to stop being so blinkered.

I think that Australian values are clearly at odds with Indian values. It's obvious that we have different opinions on what constitutes racism, as well as differing views on family life, women in society, multculturalism, the environment, human rights, animal welfare, politics, economics, sport, humour..all sorts of things.

So, how do you resolve these differences ? or don't you ?

It is a two way street and both sides need embrace these differences. I think mainstream Australia has some work to do in this regard however equally I think the new Indian community has not embraced mainstream Australia at all.

It just takes time.
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 10:33 AM
303
Aditya
Melbourne, Australia
I am not kidding but it seems you have rather misunderstood me.When I said Indians are a tolerant lot I mean it and they are respected across the globe for the simple reason that these god fearing people hardly interfere in the internal affairs of any country they immigrate.That's why we see many Indian non residents occupying highest posts in employment circle as well as in political circles.They have earned it and are not received as gifts.As far as casteism is concerned if you are interpreting caste as racism then the Hindus as such have never denied that they are not suffering from its evil caste system.If Indians are most racist in the world then they would have thrown a challenge to the Australian regime and fought violent battles.What ever may be the differences the Indians may have wihin themselves they have lived up with it and the discrimination is on the waning unless some people with some vested interest,casteist inclinations are interpreting it as so and say it as still flourishing.This world is very fierce and highly competitive.When it comes to the best the best will go and not his caste ,region,reigion and colour along with him.
You must not forget fair skin is always attractive to black skins like how negative poles attract.I am not either a fan of white skin.Its foolish to conclude that colour has to do with everything.Its only an excuse given by one who has not accomplished and wants to put blame on something else for his failures and incompetence.
Here we are debating the issue of racism of Australians and not casteism of Indians.Its you who is equating castesim to racism.Two wrongs do not make Australians right in any way.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 10:21 AM
302
Vijayrajan:

"Why there are no attacks on other Asians living in Australia"

There are, but most are East-Asian crime gangs attacking each other:

http://news.smh.com....g-20080320-20nj.html


But white australia also attack each other:

http://news.smh.com....g-20100121-mnnf.html

Of course, Indians also attack each other. Especially in India:
http://www.wluml.org/zh-hant/node/204
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 10:05 AM
301
I think it's pretty obvious what Sasha's doing Bryan, and he kind of has a point silly as he is at times. The inclination of some Australians to tell people who have every right to be here but are critical of the way things operate to 'go home if you don't like it' is close-minded and unlikely to result in good public dialogue.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 10:05 AM
300
@ Sasha

I still don't know what your instructions are for the Australian govt after they have interviewed all 130 Indian attack victims.

You said it was easy.

Please advise.
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 09:57 AM
299
You can do better than that Sasha.

I am not jingoist whatsoever, in fact I think that overt national pride is an insidious tide that brings out the worst in people.

For a man (I assume you are a man, my apologies if you are not) to continually slag off everything Australian, then have the audicity to claim the southern cross as "my flag" is hypocrisy at it's finest.
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 09:53 AM
298
I agree that it seems that Indians have a victim mentality. In some ways, I envy them. If I am an idiot and I don't get a promotion or people in the office don't like me, or I get a parking ticket, or I stub my toe, I don't have to do any soul searching. I merely have to blame racism. It means I am not accountable for any of my failures.

The Indian cricket team is an example. When a few decisions didn't go their way on the last tour (and decisions were bad), it was racism. When Harhajan Singh was suspended for his racist jibes to Symonds, ironically that was the officials being racist.

By the way, most Australians agree that the Australian team displays poor behaviour. But the Indian team is fined and suspended more than the Australian team. (FACT). But their behaviour is shown up as a shining light for all to behold.

Want an example of Indian cricket sportsmanship?

Go to Youtube, Search on:

Harbhajan Singh v/s Kevin Pietersen.

There must be a racist get out of jail card there somewhere surely?
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 09:29 AM
297
I would also like to add, after the 11th September attacks in the US, Sikhs were getting beaten up and killed for being mistaken for terrorists...i dont recall such rigorous reporting on the topic of inherent racism in America...the article in this magazine doesnt serve any purposes other than instigating more outlandish reporting.
Aditya
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 09:24 AM
296
Alright, that's Brian the Jingoist speaking. Everyone please stand up.
You must be a dual citizen and that's why you want to hold on to the Union jack. british agents...the bonds of Australia
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 08:58 AM
295
I really think you have something there Aditya. If a person is as highly sensitive to race and origins as you describe for India, and that person perceives that they are being treated unfairly (whether in fact or not), the inclination would be to ascribe the treatment to racism.

Reading blogs like this, there have been numerous scathing Indian references to Australian bad blood from convict heritage that have come from dills like Elan.

It really isn't a healthy obsession.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 08:52 AM
294
Sasha, I understand the issue very very well and have had 35 years experience in Australia only the brilliant relationship that I and my family have with multicultural Australia turn to cr#p overnight, and I am bloody angry about it.

It appears to me is that you only see Indian victims and have no sense of perpective. Again, all you do is support my argument that Indians have a victim mentality.

Indians see racism because they want to see racism.

They want to believe that the reason they are disliked in Australia is because the whole of Australia is racist and it couldn't possibly have anything to do with how their own behaviour here, how their media represents Australia, how their public representatives whinge and moan or how their students/taxi groups behave.

Yes some attacks are racial but they are not racist (I hope you can tell the difference).

...and finally it is obviously not your flag so do not please do not claim it. You obviously have no understanding or respect for the sacrifices that many many good Australians have made for that flag or what that flag represents

Although I presume you have an Australian citizenship you attitude shows that you are still 100% Indian. Therein lies the problem.
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 08:40 AM
293
@ Sasha

As I have posted before, 176,000 Australian are assaulted every year, so the govt does not have a dept that goes around to interview them, other than the police. That said, lets say the govt sets up a team to interview the 130 Indians (of 176,000) that have been assaulted. Then what? If 37,000 people are murdered every year in India at a rate 2.4 times the per capita rate in Australia, it seems that the Indian givt struggles with violence too.

What specific action do you want from the government? Do you want someone from the govt to accompany Indians through parks at night that are known to be dangerous?

You said it was easy? What do they do? (Hint: "Do something" is not specifc enough.)
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 08:30 AM
292
"Indians are known as a tolerant and a truly secular and liberal lot" - Vijayrajan, you must be kidding, Indians would have to be the most racist, discriminating, prejudiced race in the whole world. You get discrimination at all levels there, starting from the colour of your skin, religion, caste, north indian, south indian, this indian that indian...the list goes on.

Might i remind you about the constant obsession with the colour of skin in India, why on earth are there so many "fair and lovely" or "fair and handsome" advertisements on tv and newsprint?? I recently cam back from a trip to India and was astonished at the way they portray success with fair skin with these ads.

I think before you can start pointing the finger at other countries about racism, tackle the issue a bit closer to home, and then get on the moral high ground.
Aditya
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 08:26 AM
291
Will
Sydney, Australia

No one in this world is perfect and complete.If the people in the developed world think they are so placed because the lesser developed are lesser in everything else will be an under statement.
If the attacks are of a general nature and irrespective of the victim belonging to any part of the world instead of picking up Indians alone then we could have not seen its a s racial but merely the handiwork of some misguided Australians.Why most Indians still have not reacted is that they are aware of what you are saying in that all Australians are not racist.But unless and until Australians like you come out on the street and protest when injustice is done to any innocent human being like how many of you did it in the case of Dr.Hanif from India who was apprehended by your police on suspicion of being a terror link to that failed Glasgow airport bomb blast case.
Indians are not angels nor the Australians are any Saints.Being a democratic country and once a commonwealth partner country the Indians expected a fair treatment as there is a rule of law in place.But if the fence itself starts grazing the pasture then even god cannot stop it.The attackers are emboldened by the lack of firm action by the Australian government.Indians in Australia may never have interfered with the internal affairs of the country nor reported to have made any harsh comments on its population or how its own ethnic minorities or aborigines are treated.So you have no business to talk of the caste system which the Hindus never have denied it being an evil.Two wrongs after all cannot make one right.
Its the Australians that are sitting inside the glass house as poor Indians live in thatched house or with no roof at all.when you sit inside a glass house it is supposed to be air tight and those inside will hardly hear the cries of the innocent Indians outside suffering at the hands of those cruel,racist,fanatic fascist white thugs.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 08:22 AM
290
It's so easy to resolve this issue: Just do something to stop the attacks. At least the government should have met the victims of crime. Not one official has met a victim till date. Can you freakin believe it?
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 08:03 AM
289
I have been waiting to respond after having read all my fellow blogger’s response. Racism is inherent in all of us at varying degrees and such dormant prejudices we try to control and never allowed to come to the fore. It does come to the fore from time to time even with our best effort to subdue it. Once up on a time migrants from India were professionals and were inconspicuous. New migrants, especially students are conspicuous-driving taxis, working at convenient stores and service stations. Most of the students work at odd hours-after hours- and easy targets for opportunists-drug addicts desperate for money. Some of these attacks may be racially motivated. I don’t think Australians, by and large, are racists and are easy going types and give a fair go to their fellow human beings, irrespective of pigmentation of the skin. I have had my share of subtle discriminations of varying kinds and have ignored them and got on with my life. I have to say Melbourne is the best place to live and the late Indian Prime minister Indira Gandhi had concurred with my view. Last time she visited Melbourne in the early 1970s for Commonwealth Prime ministers’ conference, she said “I have fallen in love with Melbourne”. Moreover, so many times Melbourne has been voted as the most liveable city at International forums.

Some of the attackers of Indian students are opportunists and others have some grievances-like Indian students taking their university places and taking their jobs. It is duty bound by the Victorian government to inform them that Indian students are exorbitant fee payers and are not freeloaders at the taxpayers’ expense and they are allowed to work certain hours to supplement the meagre amount of money provided by their parents for their subsistence in Victoria during duration of their studies. The grievances were reported in the Australian newspaper. These are whinging Australians who have no intention to work at odd hours-after hours- and are making their excuse for attack that they think Australian taxpayers owe them a living and never get off their hindquarters and eke out a living.

The best advices to the Indian students have been issued by the Indian government and follow those advices.
Scaria Varghese
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 08:01 AM
288
Alright Vijayrajan, I see you don't think you're one of the easily manipulated ill-educated Indians I was referring to.

Perhaps you'd like to demonstrate statistically that Indians are being preferentially attacked by whites in Australia? Of course you'll have to only compare the attacks with risky professions such as taxi drivers that Indian students take-up as a sample. You'll also have to prove that it was whites that did the attacking.

When you've done that (because no-one else has done it), you'll be able to say that there's a problem with whites attacking Indians.

Until you do that, I'm afraid you fall into that group of ignorant Indians easily inflamed by their media and politicians with their own agendas.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 07:52 AM
287
Alan
Melbourne, Australia

You may be right.But why pick Indians alone when there are significant numbers of other Asians coming and who have been staying in Australia. Whether poor or rich unless abused no one gets inflamed.Havent we seen how highly educated and well placed Muslims getting engaged with terrorism resulting in gory incidents like 9/11,7/7 Glasgow airport terror plot etc.Do you mean to say that the attacks on Indians by the racial and fanatical white Australians is only because they are highly educated and developed while poor Indians seeking jobs and for better prospects are invariably poor,poorly educated and ill mannered.?.Your assessment is totally wrong.If so why pick the Indians alone and that too non Muslim and non Christians from India.
I believe in natural justice.What the Pakistanis are facing today is because they spilled the blood of the innocent Indians and Australia is not very far.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 07:44 AM
286
Sasha, most people agree with you about Pauline Hanson. There are morons in Australia like there are morons in India. I'd like her shipped off somewhere, along with a number of Indians that have come to Australia and committed crime. Just this year, there has been a number of Indians charged with murder and rape in Australia. Can we get rid of them too, or is their arrest due to a racist police force?

I don't understand the thing with the queen either. Nice lady but why is some old fart who lives 10,000 miles from here and never visits our head of state? And the flag. Every time the Commonwealth Games is on I cringe because of 80 or so Commonwealth Nations, the Australian team is one of only a handful of nations that enters the arena with someone else's flag in the corner of their flag. You can maybe understand some smaller, poorer countries that are still colonies, but what has the Union Jack got to do with Modern Australia? As was the case in Sth Africa, their prior flag that had the flags of 3 other nations was divisive. They got a new flag and everyone there loves it. The Canadian flag is one of the best recognised and loved flags in the world. Their government simply decided to give them a new one. No referendum - nothing, and no one today would want to go back.

On the whole racist Australia thing, I wont be convinced until someone provides some data to support this case. Isolated incidents don't make a nation racist. If that was the case, all nations would be racist. One hundred and 30 attacks seems a low number to me, but India is playing Chicken Little here and people like you and I are trying to rationalise one stance or another. Statistics take out the huffing and puffing but despite all of the noise and millions of words printed, no Indian journalist or politician has produced any data to support their case. Why is that?
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 07:37 AM
285
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India

No one is permitted to visit any other country without a prior and proper visa.I think you know at least this fact before vomiting something.Its because of some UnIndians like you that we have become weak and powerless and being abused and insulted often.

Only lazy and lethargic people shy away from being ambitious.Only beig ambitious one can venture and that poor Punjabi farmer boy has done no mistake trying to better his prospects.Australia is a developed and richer nation than India.Why the hell their people at all would come over to India searching for some jobs.The issue here is the racial attack over the Indians and not your preaching of idealism or way of living to others.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 07:36 AM
284
"Indians are known as a tolerant and a truly secular and liberal lot."

That's not the way I see it Vijayrajan. To me the poorly educated Indian masses seem very easily inflamed to anger and violence by the demagogue who knows the right button to push, regardless of the facts of an issue.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 07:31 AM
283
Sure there is racism in Australia, but what do you expect from a country that still has the Union Jack on its flag?

Most reporting of this makes dangerous generalisations (read racist) insinutations that the majority of white Australians are violent and vicious facists. The reporting assumes that all of the Indians are angels and innocent victims (wrong), and you assume that all of the perpetrators of attacks are white (not reporting recent murders of Indians by Indians in Australia), and of course you never acknowledge the organised voilent racist groups in your country. And for your caste system? Does the Australian media attack and vilify India for its cruel and unfair class system?

People in glass houses should not throw stones.

If we cant have faith in the media to be responsible in reporting on this, then how can we get people to understand and accept and respond positively to the ugliness of the racism that does occur?
Will
Sydney, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 07:26 AM
282
Indians are known as a tolerant and a truly secular and liberal lot.If people like them are targeted on racial and religious or fanatical ground it means there is more to it than meets the eyes.Why there are no attacks on other Asians living in Australia and significant amongst them being Pakistani Muslims.And out of those reported attacks over Indians many of them are of non christian and non Muslim Indian origins gives rise to serious doubts of selective attacks.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 07:22 AM
281
Good Allan. As long as you are open to change it's all good. i'm sure you will see a rodney king in Australia soon.

Teach Empire's Genocidal history in schools
The empire was as bad as the nazi regime
Queen to the museum
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 07:21 AM
280
Thanks for that Vijayrajan. Another stunning piece of social commentary.

It really is an education watching this page. I used to be more worried that Pakistan would use their nukes against India than vice versa. I'm begining to realise neither country has the political maturity to be trusted with nukes.

I hope like hell we don't sell our uranium to India.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 07:19 AM
279
I think for Indian non Muslim and non Christians today Australia is the most unsafe place to live on the planet than Pakistan.The attacks are both racial and fanatical.I am sure there is a wider conspiracy to discourage the Indians coming over to Australia through intimidation and creating a fear psychosis.The Australian white racist thugs are emboldened by the mute response of the Australian government and the lackluster and wavered response of the Indian government.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 07:08 AM
278
There is no cure for jealousy of the Australians and there is no reason for being apprehensive as Indians unlike other Asians do not believe in interfering with the internal affairs of the country they are immigrating.Look how subdued is the response of the Indian media and the politicians even when their own brothers are being targeted.The response would have been significantly different if people belonging to the vote bank minorities like Muslims or Christians from India were targeted.This alone shows the attacks were perpetrated by the racial and fanatic white Australians.They must remember that thy too have ethnic non-white population which is increasingly getting restive because of the same treatment being meted out to them by default.
vijayrajan
Bangalore, India
Feb 02, 2010 07:08 AM
277
Pete,
1) When the Empire sent its convicts here, they did not consult the natives what class and creed of convicts they wanted. So why should we worry. Let them be greek, Anglos, Indian or chinese. England needs those louts more than we do. For example, I can surely be without Pauline Hanson in Australia. Brumby can go too. Rudd needs to be fixed here. We'll fix him in the next Polls.
2) tasmania is Australia's pride. Empire greed wiped out cultures and people in Tassie, Corporate greed is trashing the place now. It's nothing new.

Queen to the Museum
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 07:00 AM
276
... and finally Sasha, when I see the evidence you're talking about of institutionalised racism in the police I'll revise my opinion.

In the meantime, you haven't said anything to show that Brian's idea of a victim mentality is incorrect. Your comment on ambulances (which you haven't justified in any way) only reinforces that.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 06:58 AM
275
Allan, I did not say it's not race. I said it's race and class. Middle class Indians love thinking they are the anglo's closest ally or a natural ally. Even if some middle class Indians are racially assaulted, they will not admit it because it's an embarassment for them. That's how it works. But for the student class,most of them come from rural Punjab where communities are socially and politically very active. They will not accept racism. SOME of these communities have criticised and attacked the Indian government for neglecting them for decades. These students are political and it's a good sign for Australian democracy. What the Australian government should do is to engage with these students and address their issues. This problem could have been resolved years back. Instead, Rudd and Brumby neglected it so badly and damaged relations between communities.
Boot Brumby Out,
Bigots back to Britain,
Stop trashing Tassie
Rudd Him Out;
Union Jack Off My Flag
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 06:55 AM
274
@ Sasha

I agree with you on some things, but what about bigots that are not from Britain. Let's say I am a Greek bigot, or a Lebonese bigot or an Indian bigot. Do I get sent to Britain too. What if I am of British decent the last 5 generations have been born in Australia. Where should I go? The definition of 'Bigot' doesn't start with 'A Briton who.....'

Secondly, I must watch the news more....what is happening in Tasmania?
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 06:41 AM
273
Ah Sasha, so it's not necessarily about race in your view but class? Interesting admission given the hysterical cries of racism levelled against Australia as a whole we've been hearing.

You've just doubly done your dash with me on that one.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 06:32 AM
272
Brian and Allan, I say this because I work with Indian victims of crime. Police abuse Indians when they come to the scene of crime. One of those allegations was looked into and a senior police office was suspended. This report has not come out into the media. There are video evidences of th Police treat Indians in Melbourne. I'm sure in due course this will be leaked to the media. I'm not sure why it hasn't come out yet although I have seen the footage myself. Most victims have a common opinion about the lack of attention they get in general. Brian, just because you work with Indian IT guys it doesn't mean you understand this issue quite well.It's more complicated and there's a class issue compunded with race. That's another reason why well to do Indians don't admit thgere's racism here. anyway...

Stop raping Tasmania,
Stop fascist Brumby,
Ship bigots back to britain,
Queen off my dolla,
Union jack off my flag
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 06:28 AM
271
33 Indians died in violent attacks between 2004 and 2009, says Federation of Indian Students of Australia spokesperson Gautam Gupta. Of these, six died in 2009. Nitin Garg was stabbed to death in 2010.

I find it interesting that any supposedly reputable magazine would print the statements of anyone like Gautam Gupta without actually clarifying the facts. Australia does not hide the cause of death for anyone, not even Indians. What this magazine fails to do is confirm the facts, then print them.

Of all the claims of violent death made by Gautam how many did the journalist confirm? None. Did this journalist determine who killed these Indian nationals. No. All killings in 2009 committed in Adelaide of Indian nationals were by Indian nationals. And that was three to be precise. And the fourth one that died violently killed himself after killing his wife. Australian police and welfare agencies then had to look after the orphaned children, and help them with their grief.

An Indian was found to have had his throat cut and set on fire. Again by Indian nationals. Another was found in a river in Brisbane, both the Queensland and Indian police believe this was carried out by the womans husband and are still trying to prove this. He was an Indian national.

If I can easily account for all violent deaths in 2009, and these were all committed by Indian nationals, shouldn't this journalist be able to find these details and determine the death of the 33 Indians.

So please publish facts when trying to claim that this article is trying to expalin what is happening.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 06:16 AM
270
Sasha, your comments are typical of the India victim mentality I see regularly with Indian new comers.

I have no car so regualrly catch taxi's (daily) and also work within IT in a large company with numerous Indian contractors. As I have an Indian background, many Indians feel comfortably opening up to me.

Many Indians, it seems to me, have a tendency to blame anything and everything on racism.

Q.Why can't I get a job? - A.Racism,
Q.Why won't Australian girls go out with me? - A.Racism. Q.Why don't police listen to me? - A.Racism?
Q.Why is my rent so high? - A.Racism
etc, etc,

I hear it all the time and it frustrates the hell out of me.

Indians somehow think they are being single out, when in fact the situation is the same for everybody here.
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 06:02 AM
269
Sasha -
How do you know that you're getting lower service levels unless you've been a non-Indian and able to make a comparison? To suggest ambulances give Indians a lower priority is totally ridiculous (how on earth would you KNOW anyway?). You've just put yourself into the 'too silly to discuss with' camp along with Elan.

And by the way, I suspect Indians are being targetted to some extent (although not in all cases), so I'm not in denial in that respect. What I do deny is that the greater Australian community (of all ethnicities) condones the violence in any way.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 05:30 AM
268
Allan, That's because when you walk into the police station with a complaint you are taken more seriously; that's because when you call for an ambulance, you are attended to more urgently; the whole media bandwagon screams out for attention too. Funnily, it's tough for some to understand this. Just like how brumby is living in denial. You just don't see how Indians are being targetted in Australia. If any white community was involved at the recieving end, there would have been a riot in this city. Let's say if ten backpackers get beaten up, we will know the difference. Cmon Allan, who are you trying to kid? Wake up from your privileged lifestyle and try and understand what's really going on. Try and spy on an Indian student while he's walking alone somwhwere. Try and go with an Indian to a pub in st kilda. Seriously. You and Brumby and rudd are still living in denial.

Queen off my dolla,
Stop trashing Tasmania,
SHip racist bigots back to the UK,
Life sentence to Pauline Hanson
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 05:14 AM
267
Kevin Murray

What a load of tosh. and Brunwick...gentrified !! Ha!!

Do not try to intellectualise and rationalise what is simply mindless thuggery.

Do you honestly believe that the morons who bash Indians students on the streets of Sunshine or Footscray are intelligent enough to resent Indians because of their perceived "purpose and future" ? Utter nonsense.

They do it simply because they get a thrill out of it...its just something to do on a Saturday night.

And your comment about cricket is equally ridiculous. We all know India is passionate about its cricket. This passion translates in to anger in their media towards all things Australian because Australians have shown little or no respect for their cricket team (and continue to do so).

It has nothing to do with "Anglo values".

In case you didn't get the last test series in Brunswick, India beat us !!
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 05:11 AM
266
Jcollin.

You seem very hostile. Why? Was it because mummy rejected you?

You should do what I did for my parents and buy them a house near you. They may love you even more. I bought mine an inner suburb, 3 bedroom/2 bathroom on quarter acre block.

We do need Indian and Chinese Drs, due to the significantly higher levels of medical care we give our people in comparison to the US and India. My family are involved in training Drs in Australia. One thing that they are being offered by Asian students are gifts to ensure favourable treatment. They have even had cases where Indian students have been failed and the Indians family make an approach with large donations for the University to have the fail changed to a pass. The difference between here and India is this is recorded and refused.

We need Indian and Chinese workers to wipe our arses when we are old as well. We'll make them use paper though rather then the left hand.

You claim to manage a BPO in India, this now explains the subsandard service we are receiving from our offices in India. You would know, if you are semi-itelligent, that multi nationals in India will cover up fraudulent crimes as it is not good for business. Are you aware of the instance where Indian students based in Australia were using the contacts in the ANZ BPO office in Indian to progress loan statuses to a point where they could clear the funds illegally. They were then buying cars, selling them on the cheap and returning to India. This was not reported as it was not good for business.

Multi nationals will not complain and the focus is to offshore to drive down costs.

If you know as much as you claim, then you would also know that the most BPOs in India will employ at a ratio of 3:1 to try and retain similar productivity levels of the offshored job.

Please don't be angered by the truth.

It is not only in India we are identifying major fraud committed by Indians and Indian students, it has been a problem in the US, UK, Germany, NZ, UAE, basically anywhere Indians are, but most of all in India is where we see fraud (some insight, yes we have found all nationalities to have committed some fraud but our Indian staff are noted as the biggest risk).

It is not becuase Indians are inherently evil that we find a dispraportinate number of Indians committing fraud based crime. As you may well be aware, it is not seen as a major crime throughout most of Asia, South America or Africa, it is seen as doing business. If you have been to Asia or Africa you would understand 'baksheesh' and all its variants.

So JCollin there is reasoning behind these claims. So try not to be so angry. It is not racist to state these it is factual.

You see, I work for one of the biggest employers of Indian staff in the world. The majority of staff my US based company bring to Australia are sent home within three months due to substandard performance, they believe their own hype that they are the worlds most intelligent and hardworking and that westerners are lazy, but he fact is we do more with less, and they then stuggle.

We have also found a number of staff have committed serious crimes by signing stat decs claiming they broke a law and they do this when they are moving back to India, then do not pay the fines. They think this is funny. What they don't know is if they are sent back to Oz for work they will be arrested and imprisoned, and so will their Indian friend that was involved in the rort and who is the person that broke the law. We try to explain this to them but they think we are only joking.

We do not allow our Indian staff to print reports, or have access to any recording devices, including pens and paper, and staff are searched before entering the office for the day (mind you none of this applies to our Indian staff in Australia). The reason we do this is due to the large number of cases of our Indian staff being caught stealing customers bank details, and this is widespread throughout the industry. There were a number of cases reported in the Indian and US media when managers in this company were caught stealing money from US citizens accounts associated to Citi Bank.

Wasn't it the heads of an Indian company that were caught trying to sell 40,000,000 customers credit card details to the Russain mafia? It turned out to be the BBC.

By the way JCollin. How is mummy and daddy?
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 05:07 AM
265
Interesting you should say that Sasha (264). I feel most unsafe in the CBD and certain parts of Fitzroy/Collingwood too (I used to live in North Fitzroy). If I were to bring ethnicity into the equation, it would be East Asians on the one hand and Aborigines on the other. Funnily enough though, I don't see that as a racial issue, even though racial slurs have been involved.

Ever thought that those who are the first to scream racism are those who think most in racist terms?
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 05:00 AM
264
Hi Alan

You said,

It seems there's:
- The majority of Indians in Australian who don't have a problem with the place.

(Yes, that is true and we are made welcome here by your friendliness and a “fair go “attitude. We love it here)

You said,

- A minority of Indians in Australian who do have a problem with the place

(To these people get the hell out of here Right now)
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 04:53 AM
263
Varun

According to you my postings are “blame the victim for the crime”

According to me my postings are :

“99.99% AUSSIES ARE NOT RACISTS. INDIAN MEDIA GET YOUR FU****ING FACTS RIGHT”

Refer to my post No 121

Who in their right mind would support these crimes? I absolutely condemn it.
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 04:41 AM
262
Kevin, I disagree. THis is again looking down on suburbs where ethnics live. It's a big myth that Melbourne's West is unsafe. This is propogated by vested interests who have invested in the South East. I feel more threatened walking in the CBD, St Kilda and Fitzroy areas. You get more abuses in areas where there are more anglos hanging out. The most unsfae spot for Indians in the west is Yarraville.
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 04:36 AM
261
I'll make another point. It is about integration. Humans are tribal. We like to associate with our own.

English and Australian people are very similar people; (whether we like it or not). The humour is the same, the values the same; and many of us even look the same. And yet the thousands of Australians that backpack and base thenselves in London all seem to hang around in Australian enclaves. They live there together for 2 years and spend every waking hour crapping on about how bad it is in England and how great it is in Australia. Then they go home and hang around with more Australians.

Now imagine that you are from a rural area from India. You arrive in Australia and everything is different. Would you assimulate or would you likely hang around with other Indians?

Integration is a generational thing. Indians born in Australia will be more likely to behave as Australians but we should respect that they will want to hold onto some of their Indian-ness. In fact, immigration has improved Ausyralia so much. Do we want everyone to behave like British subjects?

So can we stop all this talk about Indians not trying to integrate?
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 04:33 AM
260
OK, I've been watching this blog for a while now.

It seems there's:
- The majority of Indians in Australian who don't have a problem with the place
- A minority of Indians in Australian who do have a problem with the place
- The majority of non-Indian Australians trying to have a rational debate
- A minority of non-Indian Australians making unhelpful but generally not overly racist comments
- Indians who aren't from Australia expressing extremist views, ranging up to Elan who has spat some of the most racist bile I've ever heard, that would not have been out of place in nazi Germany (and given my father escaped from Austria prior to the war as a jew, I think I have a right to draw that comparison).

Perhaps people from overseas should think about that balance of comments before making ill-informed statements about how racist Australians are in general.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 04:18 AM
259
As has been stated earlier, the reason that so many Australians are posting here is that we offended at the branding of our entire nation as being racist. As few assaults does not make a nation racist.

The assault rate in Australia across the general population is 800 per 100,000 per annum. (FACT) This article says that there are 400,000 Indians in Australia. That means that it is perfectly normal for 3,200 Indians to be assaulted each year. And yet the Indian government is stressing over 130 assaults. (The number given in this article) Can someone explain to me what the fuss is about?
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 04:17 AM
258
No, Varun, there is no excuse for the way Indians treat foreigners. None at all - especially in how they treat women.

As a rule of thumb, if you are going to criticise someone else for something, you need to be pretty damn perfect yourself. Or as a wise man once said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." (In this case, think of words as stone.)

It doesn't matter if a caucasian is a tourist or not in India, if you're on the street, you will get singled out by many Indians for special treatment. So the point is, whilst it is relatively easy for Indians to live and work in Australia, it is quite the opposite for Australians to live and work in India. When that situation is rectified and it is as comfortable for a caucasian couple from Australia to live and work in India as it is for Indians in Australia, then and only then will I listen to arguments about how bad Australia's racism is. But I cannot see that happening any time soon - can anyone else?
David Brown
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 04:02 AM
257
Racism is a sleeping monster in Australia, as in many countries. Most of the time, it dozes quietly away. In my part of Melbourne, we have had waves of migrants from the Mediterranean, Middle East and now Africa. While many of them left situations of civil war, such as Lebanon in the 1980s, it is remarkable that after they arrive in Melbourne there is no sign of any tension between warring parties, Christian and Muslim. You can see them mixing in many of the Lebanese bakeries around here.

There's also a growing number of Indian restaurants and never a hint of tension. But this is a gentrified area with high employment.

The problems seem to be coming from parts of Melbourne with chronic unemployment. The outsourcing of manufacturing has meant that many unskilled jobs have left the country, leaving those without education to fall back on alcohol and drugs. I think the violence is partly resentment and envy at what seem to be Indian students who have a purpose and future.

But a more obvious factor is triumphalism in sport. While Indians certainly rival us in fanaticism for cricket, I think there is an underlying sense here that our success in the field is to do with Anglo values - that we keep a steady head and play rationally, rather than the more emotional players as might seem in the Indian side. My hope is that Australia loses a cricket series, particularly against India, so that we can question our Anglocentric worldview.
Kevin Murray
Brunswick, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 03:35 AM
256
As someone who comes from the subcontinent, came to Australia as an international student and studied for 5 years, took 2 years to get my PR and can now proudly say I am an Australian citizen- I can say that I have faced racism in Australia.
HOWEVER, there has not been one moment when I have thought of Australia as a racist country. That's because no matter where you go (including India)- there are people with extremist views. For Example- the person called Elan in these posts- or Van Thanh Rudd, the so-called leader of the Revolutionist Party. Why hasn't Mr Sharma reported that his father is Australian, his mother vietnamese and he has been well-educated in Australia without prejudice. He simply sees himself as a crusader. Or a simple example- just because there's fighting in Northern India does that lead everyone to believe that all Muslims and all Hindus hate each other?

This argument can go on forever. But if Indians want to read this article and believe that Australia is racist, Maybe take a moment to consider the sensationalism behind it. Mr Sharma, although you are a good writer- you are a bad reporter. Facts and impartialism should be the core of your article rather than incensing one nation against the other.

Finally, here's an article from an Australian newspaper. He's someone who has written an 'opinion' piece but by far his article is less prejudiced than Mr Sharma's.
Happy reading.

http://www.smh.com.a...d-20100201-n8s1.html
Priya
Sydney, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 02:26 AM
255
As an Australian and a lifelong resident of Melbourne I am extremely distressed about the attacks on Indians in my city. That said, I feel that the press coverage in India has been very one sided. In your recent articles you have quoted people from Australia First, One Nation and the Radical Socialist Party. These are marginalised groups, which in the the eyes of most Australians are complete jokes.

I have been in India twice on business during the past six months. I love your country and your people. I am always interested and friendly when I speak with Indian residents in Australia and I employ one wonderful young Indian woman in my business here in Australia.

India too has problems with racism - that doesn't mean that all Indians are racist. Please don't lump all Australians in the racist basket. Most of us are tolerant, interested, open minded and respectful of different cultures like I am.
Mark Balla
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 02, 2010 02:05 AM
254
There have been a couple of 'blame the victim for the crime' postings, particularly by Kartik. That's inexcusable. Are you sure that all the victims of the recent attacks had it coming to them, because according to you, their documents are fraudulent, their conversation is too loud, their manners are unacceptable etc? You might want to look at the real motive: Indians are easy targets for the violent elements in Australian society, because Indians, by and large, are passive, non-confrontational and non-aggressive, and they work late hours, which makes them even more vulnerable.
There have been some thoughtful postings by non-Indian Australians. One of the worst messages was from the Chinese lady in Hong Kong, sounding very crude and propagandist for China, and dismissive of the recent violence in Australia. And ridiculously trying to equate tourists being charged more in India, with the spate of attacks against Indians in Australia. Grow up, lady.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 02, 2010 12:49 AM
253
Wfile a lot of immoderate and hateful things have been said in this thread, I think it has been on the whole a useful exercise. We may all be flawed, but we are not devils. And at least we can talk with each other.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Feb 01, 2010 11:11 PM
252
ram prasn haryanvi: "Kangrooes are of no interest or use to us."

Kangaroo meat is lean, makes a great Korma, and has none of the religious issues associated with eating beef.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:30 PM
251
David from Melbourne, this is not a who has more problems contest between India and Australia. The attacks on Indians in Australia are condemnable by themselves. India has a good excuse for its social problems- it's poor, overpopulated, underdeveloped, semi-feudal at the lower levels of society, and carrying the legacy of colonial exploitation. Australia really doesn't have a reason or excuse. What's going on there is absolutely atrocious.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Feb 01, 2010 08:58 PM
250
"It is the Blood of Banished murderers from Britain to Australia, that makes Australia worlds foremost Racist Country. White Europeans where ever they went they carried out Genocide of native people and destroyed the native civilization and way of life"

I see you forget the partition slaughter, internecine communal violence and endemic rebellions in India as you criticise, very poorly, the nations you pretend to dislike. Work on learning balanced argumentation. The Indian education system is robust enough to teach you that unless Shiv sena has already eaten your brains?
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:37 PM
249
It is the Blood of Banished murderers from Britain to Australia, that makes Australia worlds foremost Racist Country. White Europeans where ever they went they carried out Genocide of native people and destroyed the native civilization and way of life - Americas and AUS-NZ are prime examples. This is gory-evil past of the "Free/Civilized world" aka First World.
JayKay Chraborty
Kolkatta, India
Feb 01, 2010 07:50 PM
248
@ Logan

"People respect each other a lot. Not too sure about the eastern states. Perth seems to be good."

Interesting perspective as Western Australia is known as one of the most racist states in Australia. Makes you wonder whether the local as well as international media are focusing on issues that are not relevant to the majority of people.

Still, bad things need to be examined thoroughly. It's how you keep an open and free society.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:33 PM
247
I am living in Australia for the past two years. I was totally unaware of australian culture when I came here. But I made some good friends very soon. Hospitality was good. Yes, on my way to work I have also experienced that 'Give me a dollar', 'Do you have cigar' all those kinda stuffs. people were arrogant at times. but thats normal. it happens everywhere. I go to lunch and dinners to my aussie friends. I invite them to my place. People respect each other a lot. Not too sure about the eastern states. Perth seems to be good.
Logan
Perth, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:10 PM
246
@ Aquaman

Probably true. We'll just have to do what we always do. Wait for the stupidity and hysteria on all sides to pass.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:01 PM
245
@Vincent:

Again I totally agree with you, a lot of Indians have somehow got a superiority complex, and this has to do with the way we Indians are taught right from childhood that how superior our thousands of years of culture is, when rest of the world was living as uncivilised beasts we had already advanced so much blah, blah. Lot of Indians believe that wherever human civilisation stands today, maximum contribution has come from India. I am pretty sure this posting of mine is going to bite many Indians very hard. I am also an Indian but before that I consider myself a human first and I firmly believe that all civilisations/cultures have contributed and are contributing to wherever we stand as humans. I am not denying that various cultures/civilisations have subjected others to utmost agony and pain but then one can't fix whatever happened in past by punishing the current, I mean how can I have hatred for a white person since his ancestors might have subjected my ancestors to slavery etc, this is totally illogical. I wish there was some sensible section of Indian media, who instead of indulging in these filthy tactics, could talk some sense.
Aussie Indian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:01 PM
244
Racism and xenophobia is innate human behaviour, under conditions of social and resource stress, regardless of ethnicity.

Indians are as racist as Australians are as racist as Asians.
Aquaman
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:57 PM
243
David mate it just aint going to happen. State governments want the increased tax revenue generated by Indian students but they want cop increased expenditure on policing unless they are dragged kicking and screaming, and probably still only a token gesture to appease the dissenters.
Aquaman
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:50 PM
242
"infrastructure and services, e.g. more police, to sustain the living standards and safety of increased population at levels enjoyed by Australians in past decades."

Honestly, the old bs of more policing is a red herring. Creating secure accommodation for overseas students, as the richer overseas students get may help. Considering how much overseas students have to pay for poor qualifications is a massive outrage. If we want people to study here and pay massive fees, perhaps working towards the real infrastructure they need: Safe transport, housing, proximity to their place of study. A visible police presence and harsh sentences wont solve this issue at all.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:43 PM
241
I have worked with indians in Melbourne. I found the Indians that i worked with to be racist against Australia and Australians in general. The indians i worked with gave the impression that they were better and indians as a race more superior. One indian a salespersons comment was, i will find a way to rip your aussies. Hes only thought was making money. Racism goes both ways. Indians need to look at the way they present themselves as well as complaining to all around the world.
Vincent
Brisbane, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:37 PM
240
I would further recommend that you do not get sucked in by the federal governments guarentees of safety for Indian students. The more of you that come to Australia then the more the situation will deteriorate, particularly for Indian students.

While our federal and state governments are happy for Indian students to come with their education fees in their droves, for them to become permanent residents and tax slaves to sustain the needs of our aging population and for cities to expand and become more dense, they are nor willing to spend what is required on infrastructure and services, e.g. more police, to sustain the living standards and safety of increased population at levels enjoyed by Australians in past decades.
Aquaman
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:27 PM
239
Karthik

Well as a citizen u can say that, but i cant :P! Hahah..Thanks

Goodluck to u pal!
Vijay
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:23 PM
238
Vijay

You are on the right track mate. Keep up the good work. We need more people like you. I wish you all the best at RMIT

Yes, these fraudulent clowns have let us Indians down.

Aussies are not racist, I AM

Indians students who disregard the rules and law here and absolutely have no intention to make Australia home and are here to create disharmony amongst us I have one thing to say

GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE..
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:23 PM
237
"To be very frank, something has seriously gone wrong with Indian psyche in last 10-15 years and I feel very ashamed of this fact."

Welcome to the wonderful world of populist crap selling newspapers to make money. Capitalism at its finest.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:18 PM
236
From some one who has lived on the northern out skirts of Melbourne all my life I can perhaps shed some light on why Indian students are being targeted.

Due to our ageing population our federal government has embarked on a deliberate plan to increase our population massively through its skilled immigration program. Clearly it has its eyes on both the money (in the form of education fees) and the youth that Indian students bring to the economy.

The problem is that this is causing severe pressures on the existing population in the form of increased traffic congestion, over crowding on public transport, unaffordable housing due to the increased demand that the influx of Indian students inadvertently cause, increased cost of living due to increased demand on limited supply and particularly water.

Australia may be a large country but, unlike India, most of it is uninhabitable desert and marginal arid land. Water is and will always be a critical limiting factor on what population our country can sustain at an acceptable standard of living. Desalination plants are all fine but the resulting water is very expensive and will increasingly add to cost of living pressures.

The Australian population is starting to get angry with our government for being excessively focused on economic factors and not focused enough on ecological sustainability and social harmony. There is a growing debate centered around what population level can be sustained by our continent and what population level Australians will accept and at what cost to our living standards.

I suspect that Indian students, being a prominant part of the unpopular skilled immigration program, are on the receiving end of some misplaced anger from the less law abiding within Melbourne's population.

Any government ignores ecological sustainability and social harmony at its own peril. Australia is not exception, despite the misleading size of our country and nor is India. Over the years I have seen many examples of the result of your own government ignoring ecological sustainability and social harmony as it refuses to directly address your own over population problems. It seems that you Moslem minority are a popular target when social pressures reach boiling point.
Aquaman
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:15 PM
235
@Karthik:

I totally agree with 176. Another thing that I would like to reveal is that when these 2 reporters from outlook were in Melbourne last week, they had interviewed a very well respected and old Indian lady(she is very active among indian community, senior citizens and social work in general, her picture appears almost every week in local Indian newspapers) and she had presented the true picture to these guys. And these reporters simply have ignored her inputs because those inputs were quite contrary to what Indian masses have been fed by notorious media and press over there. To be very frank, something has seriously gone wrong with Indian psyche in last 10-15 years and I feel very ashamed of this fact. I mean how could one justify labeling a whole country as 'racist' even without any factual information in hand.
Aussie Indian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:15 PM
234
To be honest minor constitutional changes are irrelevant to me. It's also not the point of this forum regarding the article. I'd support a parralel indigenous body with legislative power over their community similar to the council of chiefs system in Fiji or the consitutionally recognized kingdoms in Africa today within a democratic republican framework.

It's stupid to think a person representing less than 2% of the population as head of state, which may be as anachronistic as having a foreign Queen as our titular head of state.

Regardless, often the Republic issue is hijacked to endorse a type of Australian nationalism I'm glad has been absent from our national agenda. We're a commonwealth, not a republic, and from looking at the republics around the world, I can't see that as a negative.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:10 PM
233
@ Karthik

Yeah, i totally agree with your comments. Although i donot much, its just been 6months since i've been studying at RMIT. I do find the people really friendly and warm. I've seen so many Punjabis, no offense meant, but its a fact, talking out very loud without basic manners,commenting on various people in Punjabi, although i donot understand much of it, i can make some sense of it. Its really a disgrace that because of such people, most of the people have this feeling that all indians behave the same way.
Vijay
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:07 PM
232
So david, do you mind having the aboroginal flag as our national flag? Do you mind having an aboroginal elder as our figurehead instead of a relic who has no connection whatsoever to this country. Such a move will better than saying sorry. If you agree to it then I will compromise on a museum to showcase such quirks. When it's a national flag, i feel there should be a genuine sense of togetherness.
How will it feel to other fellow Australians if some people want an Indian king as Australia's figurehead.
Queen as the figurehead is blasphamous to many from former colonies.

Union Jack off my flag, queen off my dolla,
March towards a true reconciliation,
Stop bleeding Tassy,
Australia for all

Sasha
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:05 PM
231
@ Aussie Indian

Cant agree more than that. Most of them come here on fake documents. I think the govt is partly to be blamed for letting these people come and pursue cookery,hairstyling courses. But i think they concentrate more on revenue than checking what courses the student has opted!
Vijay
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:02 PM
230
aussie Indian, Vijay , David

Well said.....

read my comments 176
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:02 PM
229
@ Heath Callaway

Westerners are notorious for putting their children in International schools so as not to involve their kids in the society of the developing country they live in. Indians don't have that luxury.

Regardless. You don't have to act like an "Aussie" to live here. You can do what you like, mostly. Not being part of the mainstream is no excuse for victimizing someone. Trying to understand people who are guests in our country, regardless of whether they ultimately wish to stay is a better answer than putting the onus on them to not be SO DIFFERENT.

Indians by and large do not interfere, reject or actively try and change Australian society. They are new to a foreign land and need reciprocal support from the community instead of animosity.

Unfortunately, shoddy taxi drivers and those horrible call centre calls have created a bad impression in people's minds. Funny though, as Australian and multinational companies pay Indians to be in the call centres and the corrupt taxi industry doesn't help either.

Cool, calm and kind heads need to prevail.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:00 PM
228
Just a brief comment from an Australian perspective. The vast majority of Australians have never heard of the Australia First party, they certainly don't have any members of parliament, local council or anything else. As far as I can tell from this article, it may be no more than the one guy quoted here. It seems like slightly dubious journalistic standards to quote this guy extensively without even a mention from one of the major Australian political parties. That said, Australia's politicians should be tackling the issue more strongly.
A little balance wouldn't go astray though.
Huw
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:57 PM
227
David:

Most of them (I mean those in courses like cookery and hairdressing etc) have fake qualifications. Some of them may have better qualifications (but that qualification probably wouldn't fetch them a PR, and hence join cookery/hairdressing). But the bottom line is most of them are here on fake documents.

Generally I don't waste my time posting in such discussions as I have found they are useless. But somehow, I have been really perturbed by the totally insane behaviour of Indian masses, press, media etc and that is what compelled me to jump in. I think Aussies have nothing to defend. These are law and order incidences which could happen anywhere in world and should be treated as such by aussie authorities
Aussie Indian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:52 PM
226
David - I think we are on the same side - arguing semantics.

I don't believe you'd be thick enough to try to live in India without bothering to learn something of the culture and language. It's common courtesy. Why would you move to India to join an Australian enclave?
Heath Callaway
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:52 PM
225
David:

Firstly, good work because most of posts make true sense and i agree with them. :)

Yeah most of them are from Punjab, who are doing these vocational courses like cooking, hairstyling etc. Even the majority of taxi drivers are Punjabis. I think their main objective is to obtain a PR ASAP rather than selecting a genuine course for their study. Like Aussie Indian said, the UK has recently banned all the visa applications from North India.

Cheers
Vijay
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:48 PM
224
@ Aussie Indian

Interesting. I'm just curious as to how many of these people already have university qualifications or higher education? I met a number during my own time doing cookery (which I found to be a mistake for me)who obviously had an education level far superior to the crap they were studying.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:41 PM
223
David :

Yes most of these people are from Punjab and I must say if they are called 'students' then we will have to redefine the meaning of the word itself, I mean by no stretch of imagination I would classify them as 'student'. For your info, recently England had to suspend the visa application processing from this part of India as they could easily sense the fraud going on (http://tiny.cc/2Z926). In fact, most of the Indians settled in Australia had already recognised this fraudulent entry of these so called students in Australia long time ago and were concerned about how such a crap was being allowed to enter Australia?
Aussie Indian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:29 PM
222
Sorry, reposting it as the previous one got cut again.

http://tiny.cc/SZtql
Aussie Indian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:25 PM
221
Question to our Indian friends commenting:

Does anyone know the social status and education level of the majority of Indian students studying in Australia? I've read here some classist attacks on Punjabi people and Northern Indians. Is Punjab the place where the majority of applications come from?
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:21 PM
220
Here is the link again, it got cut in my last post :

http://www.hindustan...article1-503607.aspx
Aussie Indian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:18 PM
219
Hi,

Before I post my comment let me be upfront about myself - I am a person of Indian origin, living in Australia for last 10 years and IT professional and I come from upper cast Hindu family.

I have no hesitation in claiming that I never encountered even a single incidence of racism, I am very well assimilated in Aussie society. All my neighbours come from different ethnicity and a lot of them are white aussies. I must admit the kind of respect and love I have received in this country, I wouldn't have received it in India. I am really appalled by the kind of insane jingoism that is going on in India about these opportunistic attacks on some students. Its just outrageous that how even without waiting for the results of investigation, whole India is jumping up and down. I think the whole situation has been summed up rather well by Ray of Sidney in response no 163. Somehow, lot of Indians have fooled themselves in believing that India has become some kind of super power. On the contrary the fact is India is a third world country and will continue to be for next 100 years with its myriads of issues like corruption, over population, illiteracy, totally fractured society etc. To sum up my comments I will like to quote one of the most respectable Indian scribe Mr Khushwant Singh at http://www.hindustan...article1-503607.aspx
(For my aussie friends, the word 'bhai' that appears in the title is a Hindi word and it means brother)
Aussie Indian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:08 PM
218
"B: 'Family orientated' is another way of saying racist. It means 'I don't want my child marrying that freak's child'."

No, it means they work and live to improve the lives of their families. Just like many people do.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:04 PM
217
"It's funny how some anglo australins ask immigrants to leave their culture behind when they themselves haven't gotten over their past."

My family are jewish migrants from Poland. We have no interest or affiliation with the British Crown or mother England. I just believe that we should keep some of our unique quirks while striving to build a multicultural pluralist society. They are not contradictory.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:01 PM
216
Sasha - I admire your ideological conviction, but I think that you may have misread my initial post. I'm a republican, and very much in favor of multiculturalism. What I am not is delusional. Racism exists, but social convention rules - in all countries. Do more to appreciate the latter and you'll suffer less of the former.

David:

A: Probably not, but some Pakistanis and Afghanis may have different ideas. How does a customs official exercise due diligence without racially profiling?

B: 'Family orientated' is another way of saying racist. It means 'I don't want my child marrying that freak's child'.

c: If Elan's claimed academic achievement is genuine we all have reason to be afraid.
Heath Callaway
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:50 PM
215
@ EA MacIntyre

That is the most cogent, balanced and intelligent post I've seen. Please dont think Australians are on this website for nationalistic reasons. We are genuinely upset that people perceive us as racists whereas many abhor and despise the type of moronic violence seen recently.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:45 PM
214
David, using that logic India should have 4 union jacks on their flag and the US can have a few too. How can Indians who grew up with tales of their parents and grand parents fightin the brutal empire accept institutions of a country that worships the queen. It's funny how some anglo australins ask immigrants to leave their culture behind when they themselves haven't gotten over their past.

Queen off my dolla,

Sasha
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:28 PM
213
My question is what is the need for skilled Indians to go to Australia?. I studied Microelectronics in RMIT University during 2003-05 and returned to India and is currently working in India. At that time there was not much violence in Melbourne and most Indian students used to attend universities to get degrees. I used to live in Footscray which is heaven for thugs and notorious for drug junkies, yet never experienced the kind of violence that is prevalent now. It's only during March 2005(The month i returned) that i noticed lot of young people from Punjab have arrived to do hospitality courses in TAFE's and colleges the reason being not studies but to get permanant residence. In contrast many of my classmates, through they are permanant residents of Australia returned to India and is working in Semiconductor industry and there is no dearth of opportunities here. What is the use if you drive a fancy car and lead a high life in an alien country and there is nobody proud of you?.
Sudhir Saligrama
Bangalore, India
Feb 01, 2010 04:20 PM
212
I am a person of Australian of South Asian origin and have lived in Sydney for more than nearly forty years. I have seen a lot of change over that time. This blog however is an eye-opener to me because it seems to show how little people in both countries know about the other - even people who have traveled, or maybe especially people who have traveled who believe that a short time in a country as a traveler makes you knowledgeable about the country.

I am not sure that blogs like this really help because in the emotion and heat they generate, it is really very hard to properly consider the arguments. I will however make the following observations.

Hugh McKay a leading Australian social commentator makes the observation that the biggest change that Australia has undergone within the last generation is not immigration, economic globalisation or changes in cultural and social tastes and habits - but it is the attitude of the "haves" towards the "have nots". Thirty years ago, Australia was still a place where the ethos of "mateship" really did mean a sense of obligation on the part of the well off to help provide a leg up for the less well to do. A generous welfare system was the means to this end. That welfare system though still in place is creaking - with a real change in attitude that blames poverty not on circumstances but on the personal fault of the have nots. There is no longer a sense that the collective good requires a re-allocation of resources from those who have more to those who less. This I think holds the key.

You bring people from India who can afford an education and allow them to settle in areas where a large underclass lives - abandoned as it were by the society to which they belong, and any person can tell you that this spells trouble. Add to this a situation where the Federal government has been running a migration programme in the guise of a student programme, where the student in the eyes of the local people gets an education they cannot afford themselves and also get to stay and take a job. That the students pay for the education they receive from their own funds and helps subsidise Australian students will be a detail that does not matter to the locals.

The Federal government however was very happy with all this. It had effectively has acquired skills the country needs without spending a cent. This all seemed to work quite well until the lid blew off. This was thanks to the India press which first blew that lid. The Federal and Victorian governments were apparently aware of the problem for two years and worried - but did not do enough. What they failed to do was the first thing that is required to be done when situations like this develop - and that is to openly air the issues and try to deal with the problem in full light of day rather than brushing it under the carpet and trying to fix things up quietly.

The Indian press I do not think can be blamed for blowing the lid - even though some comment is over the top and the cover on Outlook is sensationalist and inflammatory. As to what one Australian commentator says of the Indian press, see http://www.eurekastr...icle.aspx?aeid=18963 This is a news website run by a Roman Catholic Order in Australia.

The blame I think must lie with the Australian and Victorian governments, both for an ill-conceived and slightly "smart-arsed " scheme under which they thought they could fill skill gaps at no cost to it through a hidden migration an skills training programme effectively financed by India (and other countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh and China) without thinking through the consequences. I think that the Indian government even though it has been very restrained (its travel advisory is fair and balanced) could have done better in warning its citizens earlier of what the problems are. Detailed travel advisories are common in many countries. The Australian government for example does provide detailed warnings including identification of “no go” zones (usually in Europe) for Australians with dark skin. I always take care not to go to these areas when in Europe without precautions.

So where do we go from here?

The short term solution is already working its way through - as we see in a sharp drop in new students/migrants and increasing numbers of people cutting short their study and returning to India. The solution proposed by some of the people on this blog "go back where you came from" is already taking place. Sadly for us, it means that there will be people in India who will take back with them an image of Australia that will be very hard to erase. All I can say to you is " sorry for what has happened" - although I wish that it is our politicians saying it.

Without meaning to excuse the Federal government, I think that its inept handling of the situation is partly due to shock. I think they are honestly at a loss to know what to do. They fully well see the problem and see the damage to a bi-lateral relationship which the mandarins in Canberra see as becoming one of Australia's most important along with the relationships with China and the US. The long term solution ultimately touches on some basic questions about Australian society which no political party has the guts to tackle head on.

As for the long term solution? The Federal government needs to accept that it dropped the ball three decades ago and focus on repairing the damage to Australian society wrought by three decades on neo-liberalism and in particular providing opportunities for the underclass that is rapidly developing in both urban and rural Australia. When that is done, the country will be better able to absorb immigration (in the 50s proportionately much larger immigration intakes were assimilated in Australian society without problems on the scale we now see).

And what about racism? Having lived in Australia for nearly forty years, I observe a long trend of a decline in racism. Racism exists in pockets but is not all pervasive. Yes - it is part of the mix in the violence we now see, even if many of the perpetrators of the violence are people of non-Anglo-Celtic background. Put upon minorities often assimilate the prejudices they perceive as appertaining to the majority - often in an exaggerated manner - as a means of entry into society. When I was at school in the 70s, the worst racists were often people of a non-Anglo-Celtic background. We see the same thing in India where some of the worst violence against dalits comes not from the upper castes but from those just above them in the pecking order. However, in the end, in Australia it is the long term failure of the Federal government to look after large parts of the population that is the fuel on that stokes the fire of racism.

For the folks in India, I have tried to set out the picture as accurately as I can. If you want to blame someone, that blame does not lie with the ordinary Australian who is basically a good and decent person just like the ordinary Indian - blame a badly conceived policy of the Australian Federal government. I do not believe that the Federal government forsaw any of this when the embarked on their ill concieved scheme - but that is no excuse. We elect governments becuase we expect this of them. If any good comes out of all this, hopefully, it is to jolt the Federal government into some deep thinking that takes us well beyond the immediate problem to address some very basic questions about the character of Australian society and going to the need repair some broken bonds that once held us all together under a social democratic compact.

Please understand the people perpetrating the violence are a small minority even within the disadvantaged communities to which they belong. They (as well as some of the intemperate comments on this blog) do not reflect the country as a whole. I say this with the experience of forty years of living in Sydney.
EA MacIntyre
sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:19 PM
211
I am 38 years old and have lived in Melbourne my entire life. My wife is Japanese, we have two children. My friends are Jewish, Japanese, Indonesian, Indian, British, American, Greek, Italian... My colleagues are from all over the world including several from India.

Sadly, some Australians are racists and some crimes committed in my city against Indians have racist motivations. But racism is everywhere in this world and I don't believe for a minute that Melbourne is predominantly a racist city. Far from it, Melbourne is a pluralist and open society.

The fight against racism in Australia is as long as the history of Australia itself. When Australia was founded around 1788, people were worried about Catholic Irish immigrants. Then during the Gold Rush it was the Chinese. Then post world war two it was the Greeks and Italians. After the Vietnam war it was the Vietnamese. More recently, it has been Lebanese and now we are seeing problems with racism towards Indians.

As migrants from new ethnic groups came to Australia, it brought a racist backlash from the tiny minority of Australians who are racists. Such a minority exists in every country in the world. Each one of these backlashes was ultimately defeated by the tolerance and good will of the majority of Australians. It will be so again this time.

Racism cannot easily be solved just by throwing more police at the problem - it has yet to be solved anywhere in the world. Australians have shown great vigilance towards racism; we will continue to do so.
Rupert
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:13 PM
210
"Sasha: I'm with ya about the flag. It is an insult to the large portion of Australians that don't have British heritage, including the aboriginals, it reeks of Australia's immaturity as a nation and more recently it is the choice of some of the racist Anglos in showing their displeasure at multiculturalism."

I think the aborigines prefer it largely as it is proof that the nation is built on two seperate cultural backgrounds, namely, that we were colonised by Britain and have strong cultural links to it. Same as Fiji keeps the union jack in its flag although it's been a republic for over 20 years.

Secondly it is a nod to our historical background. No idea why I'm debating the flag issue which is a non-issue with 0 relevance or importance to this debate or important issues facing Australia.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:05 PM
209
Sasha: I'm with ya about the flag. It is an insult to the large portion of Australians that don't have British heritage, including the aboriginals, it reeks of Australia's immaturity as a nation and more recently it is the choice of some of the racist Anglos in showing their displeasure at multiculturalism.

A new flag is needed but don't hold your breath.
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:56 PM
208
"Whether Aussies like or not hordes of Indians are rearibg to go rather to migrate to the land of the Kangrooes.And they will migrate too with the existing Laws .Change the migrations Laws if you don't want Indians amongst you.Alternative choices are Chinese or Talibs ."

Thanks. I don't care how many overseas students want to come here or get permanent residency. Everyone wants a better life. I'd rather Indians who come from a democratic country, with a high level of education and good work ethic than some of the people we allow in under asylum laws.

A: Indian students don't want to blow us up;
B: They are family oriented and work hard;
C: They usually have excellent qualifications.

It's a shame the only way they can come here is being tricked by migration agents to pay $20,000 a year to study a course that is well below their education standards.

Everywhere Indian migration has happened, the host nation benefits alot. We need to get rid of cash for degrees and let people come here to work and live like anyone else.

If Indians had as much money as the Indonesian, Chinese, Malay etc students they wouldn't be treated as badly because they wouldnt have to work at Macdonalds, as taxi drivers and service stations.

I would be humiliated if I went from my country with my qualifications and had to work in unskilled jobs that the Indian students would NEVER do back home in India.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:50 PM
207
Heath Callaway:: I'm in touch with level headed Australians who want a free society. I denounce racist thuggery however hard you try to justify through your false modesty.I denounce rednecks, you don't. That's the difference. It's not about me being in touch with failed sociologists. Racist bigots in Australia should be shipped back to the UK, just like how thiefs and thugs were sent here from the UK.
Union Jack Off my Flag,

Sasha
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:46 PM
206
David
Melbourne, Australia

You seems to be one voice of reason among lots of angry shouts.

Whether Aussies like or not hordes of Indians are rearibg to go rather to migrate to the land of the Kangrooes.And they will migrate too with the existing Laws .Change the migrations Laws if you don't want Indians amongst you.Alternative choices are Chinese or Talibs .

Have your pick !
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Feb 01, 2010 03:33 PM
205
I think the story should be; Why do Aussies hate Taxi drivers.

Thugs in Australia don't discriminate; they'll beat the crap out of taxi drivers of any race. Unfortunately 70% of them are Indian.
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:05 PM
204
Having read through the comments, I can't help but to put forth a couple of points:

1. Elan should consider the very real possibility that the the thirty-odd years of perceived discrimination he suffered has nothing to do with his ethnicity, and everything to do with him being a dickhead.

2. Sasha would do well to meet Australians other than failed sociology students. It might help her overcome her persecution complex.

3. Gordy Gambino should concern himself less with adult conversations than with remembering to put the fries in the happy meals he's passing through the window.

4. Karthik is right on the money in a number of ways. Many (not all) of the Indian students I have come into contact with are loud, inconsiderate and ill mannered. They are unrepresentative of the Australian Indian community at large and the Indians I work with professionally. While this certainly doesn't excuse any violence against them, it is a plausible factor in understanding why the violence occurs. I don't accept that violence against Indian students is wildly disproportional to any other group, but rather than quibble over the issue, I feel it would be much more productive to look at how it can be avoided. If these students devoted a small amount of time to integrating themselves into the culture of their host country they would not only be safer, but undoubtedly enjoy their experience far more. On the whole, I think they are targeted far less for their ethnicity than the fact that they are easy prey for cowardly thieves. Learning to avoid danger would help.

As a multi-generational Anglo Australian, I can't pretend that racism doesn't exist in Australia. It's most prevalent in regional areas and among the economically and socially disadvantaged. Ignorance breeds fear, as they say. It also breeds with its cousin and doesn't think that 'country music' is an oxymoron - but that's a discussion for another day.

The reality, however, is that racism in Australia manifests itself largely as humour and naive curiosity, rather than serious animosity. Most of the real angst seems to be imported - amongst new arrivals vying for an improved place in the pecking order. The idea (as put forward in this strange piece) that I might be in some way intimidated by the influx of smart, qualified Indians is too silly to even be funny. We can use as many smart people as we can get. What we don't need is more bad cooks and hairdressers. We breed enough of them here.

Pratyush asked why Australians are posting on this article. Fair question, even if the inference that we're not worthy is a little racist. I can only answer for myself. When I read that Australia is a racist country I take it personally. They're saying that I am racist, as are all my friends. The only way I can hope to dispel this misconception is to add my voice to the discussion. Is this a bad thing?
Heath Callaway
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:00 PM
203
@ ram prasn haryanvi

Australia is a party to free trade agreements the same as India. If you sell things we need, we'll buy them. Same as with China. I doubt those Australians who are racist towards Indians feel the same way about the Chinese.

We are a primary producer nation with a strong service sector. India is starting to become a manufacturing centre. China still produces way more products to a better standard than India so more of their goods are imported into Australia.

My point is, you seem to want to punish Australia and harm relations between two commonwealth countries because of a perceived rise in assaults on a section of the Indian student community. Is that sensible or just anger not helped by hysterical reporting in your media which unfortunately has become as nationalistic and populist as Fox news in America.

This news magazine is one of the few that stand out as trying to be objective. Which is what journalism is meant to be about. You should try it too.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 02:54 PM
202
'it also shows how little you understand geopolitics and the role of globalization."

David

Globalisation later first Uranium we need .Kangrooes are denying us under one or the other pretext.So why we need Australia kindly advise ? Otherwise too trade balance is shifting in your favour .
ram prasn haryanvi
Ambala Cantt, India
Feb 01, 2010 02:53 PM
201
I wonder if the recent arrests made in relation to the murder of 2 "Indian nationals" in Australia have been reported as widely as the racism story?? In both cases, those arrested were also Indian nationals - an Indian man who murdered his Indian wife, and an Indian couple who bashed, set on fire, and left on the side of the road an Indian man. Not a racist, white trash Australian in sight. One of my aunts is Indian-British, another Greek. My brother in law is Polish-German, another Italian. Mine is a fairly typical Australian family nowadays. I have visited India in 2005, and whilst it was an amazing adventure there is no doubt that the crimes you commit against your own people in terms of the caste system are dreadful. I am sorry for what has happened to the innocent, whatever their nationality - but please report honestly.
Sharon McDermott
Newcastle, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 02:41 PM
200
"Racism towards Indians and no Uranium sale to India.Kangrooes are of no interest or use to us .Best course is discourage students going to Aussi colleges and cool off trade relations.Many Aussi companies specially in Oil Sector are working in India .They are enjoying immence facilities here .Tighten the noose .We have better alternatives available."

Why would that work to help Indian students? It would only work if it was government policy to abuse Indians, which is the opposite of what every level of government and the vast majority of society wants.

Another arrogant view with misguided nationalist chauvanism. Living in a free and democratic society, only the police and justice system and the goodwill of the people will improve the situation.

If Indian students genuinely don't want to come here that's fine. It might make those Indian migrants who assimilated into Australia while keeping their culture feel safer. So yes, by all means find alternative arrangements if you like.

Punishing a whole society and damaging bilateral relations because of media hysteria and misunderstanding and the actions of a few idiots is not only foolish, it also shows how little you understand geopolitics and the role of globalization.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 02:35 PM
199
@ JCollin

Sounds like you need some sleep. Do you normally post on websites like this at 3am NY time? I know lots of Indians are up at 3am in Australia, but they are normally driving taxis and don't have easy access to the internet.

Has your BPO planning meeting just finished?
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 02:34 PM
198
Do we really need Australia and Ausi education ?

'Until recently, Australia’s exports to India primarily comprised mining and agricultural products. Now its service exports alone (mainly Indian students there) exceed India’s total exports to that country. The trade balance will tilt further towards Australia when the $20-billion Gorgon gas supply contract becomes operational."

Indo Aussi Trade ::2008-09

Exports to India from Australia ::A$ 13525 Millions
Exports to Australia from India :: A$ 1831 Millions

'Uranium supply
While Dr Manmohan Singh explored the possibility of uranium supply, there was no positive movement on the issue. Mr Rudd’s response was both misleading and contradictory when he asserted that there was bipartisan consensus in Australia to not sell uranium to India. After India had negotiated the civil nuclear cooperation agreement with the US, Mr Rudd’s predecessor, Mr Howard, had decided to sell uranium to India. It remains the policy of coalition parties in Opposition as well. "

http://www.thehindub...2009112750230800.htm

As a developing Economy India has many leverages available.

Racism towards Indians and no Uranium sale to India.Kangrooes are of no interest or use to us .Best course is discourage students going to Aussi colleges and cool off trade relations.Many Aussi companies specially in Oil Sector are working in India .They are enjoying immence facilities here .Tighten the noose .We have better alternatives available.
ram prasn haryanvi
Ambala Cantt, India
Feb 01, 2010 02:34 PM
197
Stpehen Jose

waste of time !!!!

Cheers
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 02:33 PM
196
A Mustafa:

"There is a problem in this country with The Poor White Trash Class. They are given everything in terms of education, health care and social security payments yet they feel the need to attack Indian students which, in at least one case, has resulted in the death of an innocent student."

What you haven't said is that most of the areas where attacks take place are migrant areas. Do you think when a Sudanese or Lebanese or Italian person attacks an Indian in Melbourne this is white trash racism?

My brother is a lawyer and defended some aborigines who beat up an Indian and robbed him. They called him a 'curry' etc. Are indigenous Australians racist as well?

Or the other possibility, that these are disadvantaged, uneducated people that will harm another weaker individual for economic and personal gain.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 02:28 PM
195
jcollin

I think you are having convulsions and seeing too many stars

Ch***rs M**te
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 02:24 PM
194
There is a problem in this country with The Poor White Trash Class. They are given everything in terms of education, health care and social security payments yet they feel the need to attack Indian students which, in at least one case, has resulted in the death of an innocent student.
The associated problem with these assaults is the spineless politicians who will speak up and say the truth as it applies to the attacks. The Labor politicians dare not speak up and identify the perpetrators because the perpetrators are constituents, by and large, of Labor electorates. The politicians don't want to upset their own constituents by labelling them as violent racist thugs. They dare not upset the present rotten social order in this country by prosecuting and punishing the Trash Class.
Mustafa Ahmet
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 02:23 PM
193
Karthik- you are the type of Indian who calls all the males in the neighborhood has your Dad.You Ma F****r,you were conceived when your mother slept with someone when your real dad was out working you maggot.You are crticizing your motherland in favor of these pie faced sausage suckers.Aussies suck man and they like you cant pont their fingers to a single dad. Their generationd cant do it and they have no dignity you Bas***d.
Rahul all the best in the US. At least you are getting off from these sick C***s.
Stpehen Jose
Brisbane, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 02:19 PM
192
@ Rahul

"To all the Australians here comparing India to Australia and telling Indians to stay home - have you lost your mind or is your logic just that weak? Indians know better than anybody else that there are problems in India - that's why they leave. The choice is between Australia and other developed countries. You dont choose where you were born, but if you're lucky you can choose where you live."

Agreed. As a children of migrants I can sympathise with wanting a better life for yourself and your family. The rest of your post is moronic vitriol.

Making comparisons between India and Australia is like trying to compare a water buffalo to a kangaroo. Bound to make you hopping mad.

Indian overseas students make up roughly %15 of the student intake. The vast majority of people who study here are often affluent asian students who live in secure student accommodation from the centre of the city to wherever is close to their university.

As I have observed, quite a number of Indians coming to Australia already have a higher tertiary education than most Australians, so it begs the question why they really want to come here to learn how to cook when Indian cuisine is far superior to the crap they teach in a commercial cookery class.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 01:18 PM
191
CRAIG,

You Aussie L**R, everyone is right Aussies are loosers, and mentally sick, Australian bureau of statistics reveals that 1 out of 5 aussies are mentally sick, they need migrants from India, China to run not just taxis, janitors, supermarkets, but hospitals, aged care etc.,

you Aussie L**R can't take care of ure parents throw them in aged care and need Indian and chinese doctors and carer, You are mentally sick, and you would need a doctor most likely Indian or chinese cause you're running out of doctors.

I run a BPO with operations in India and they are the most hard working people I 've come across who works cheaper than my people (who are lousy and arrogant like aussie S***R).

I had few aussies whom I have kicked out as they were not just arrogant but morons.

I'm not sure if the indian worker you were talking is your boss cause he definitely looks smart enough to make you hate him (poor aussie C**T).

First your pals were kicked out by britishians, B*******D and kicked out and then gave you technology and tools to make your country (mostly they were americans and britishians) who built your country).,

And those indian memebers who were found to be faking degrees, you're b****y liar, it would have become the hot story in my country, you L**R you really can't handle truth.

Better accept truth before your next generations suffer b'cos of your arrogance (learn from our mistakes), looser
jcollin
new york, United States
Feb 01, 2010 12:57 PM
190
Well said Rahul. I hope you do well in the US and I hope you can return to this beautiful country once we finish fighting these red necks. I'm sure we will see an Australia that respects its indigineous communities; I'm sure we will see an Australia that does not look up to the queen for inspiration; I'm sure we will have an Australia that allows people its people to live in dignity; I'm sure we will live to see an Australia that ensures its citizens freedom to express their thoughts without having to lose their visas. Let Australia be the hope for the under privileged. those who do not believe in this Australia can leave. Freedom to Australians!!!! We want to be young and free of racist thugs
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:46 PM
189
I've been in Australia for about 8 years now, didn't come here as a student - came as a skilled migrant. Enjoyed my first first few years here - I made some great friends from all over the world and loved the lifestyle. However, since about 2005 I have noticed an increase in the amount of racism and xenophobia in Sydney. It used to be subtle, but last year I had a beer bottle thrown at me as I was riding my bike and told to 'go f**ing home', I couldn't talk about it with any of my aussie friends for weeks. Have been shouted at while driving, been called a 'black c**t' as I was crossing the street - all this in the last year. Then there's all the subtle racism. - the condescension and the poor service, the 'bag check'.. A guy I was talking to at a prty who's white and South African was complaining about xenophobia in Australia as well..

I'm leaving Australia this week to go to the US (yes, with it's bad economy and all it's problems). The reactions from Australians on this page have confirmed for me that this Australia is not the one that I came to 8 years ago.. I don't know what happened (Howard's children came of age?), but I feel sad leaving.. I own a beautiful house here that I'm going to miss, and I can't imagine what my weekends are going to be like without my friends, but I just don't feel safe living here any more.

To all the Australians here comparing India to Australia and telling Indians to stay home - have you lost your mind or is your logic just that weak? Indians know better than anybody else that there are problems in India - that's why they leave. The choice is between Australia and other developed countries. You dont choose where you were born, but if you're lucky you can choose where you live.
Rahul
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:35 PM
188
Alright everyone..some of us really bummed around today. that's the moral of the story.
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:30 PM
187
Sasha !!! LOL . wasting space here!!!

Chittu

Thanks mate!!!
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:29 PM
186
Ian,

Your last post was very credible (in fact I was tearing up) until you suggested pity for Collingwood supporters.

I am OK with any race. Send more Indians if they want to contribute. Even refugees; Tamils, Afgans, Iraqis give the poor buggers an opportunity to further enrich our society.

But if another boatload of Collingwood supporters lands on Christmas Island, I say we start shooting.

As John Howard once said; "We decide who comes into this country and the team that they support."

And any Adelaide supporters who think that's funny, wipe that smile off your face 'cause you're next.

Is it racist to hate Collingwood? Just wondering.
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:25 PM
185
Thanks Ian.You have a good one! DOn't you have any islander colleagues?
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:22 PM
184
yup got it Karthik ... :) Your english is really amazing ... You must be from one of the reputed grammar schools here, I bet ... ;)
Chittu
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:22 PM
183
Karthik, you are the worst of the lot. You speak absolute BS! Seriously. I wonder how you got here. And I really don't think you r from India either.U reek of upper caste chauvanism. Seriously champ, geta life.
If you do not know that Chinese have Nukes and they can annex Australia in a second, then you are an idiot. Do you kow that the Fiji Islands have been taken over by the chinese? They are the best strategists. They are the new americans. And they are right at Australia's door step. They have already contained Australia and having a PM like Rudd does not help. He's blatantly Anti-Indian and that's why we are in this soup. He's getting orders from his chinese bosses. I have just one request people...I want the Union Jack off our flag...and I want white racists to shut up or go back. It's a genuine, patriotic demand! I believe Australia should be arepublic with strong hate laws. I want Tasmania to be freed of tyrants! India is a natural ally to a democratic Australia. Forces against it are red necks and chinese agents. Simple! This is a fight for a true and liberal Australia. Shun racism, shun Kevin Rudd, send Brumby back.
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:19 PM
182
Oh well, have to go home now.

After working with my American, Korean, Mainland Chinese, Hong Kong Chinese, Malay Chinese, Australian, English, Scottish, Canadian, Czech, Polish, Argentinian, Indian, Sri Lankan, Austrian, French and Korean colleagues peacefully and productively, I'm going home to cook a curry for my Hong Kong-born wife.

Today we have learnt:

1. Australia is a generally fair and tolerant country, albeit with a few ratbags who we all hope will be caught by the police.

2. The Australian immigration and education system is being rorted by unscrupulous criminals, but they are slowly being put out of business.

3. A lot of Indians enjoy living in Australia and very nearly all Australians are upset when new arrivals don't feel welcome, even ratbags like Elan and Sasha.

4. The media sucks (yet again)and enjoys a beat up.

5. Politicians who use racism and hatred suck.

6. Karthick is a very funny guy.

7. If there is room in this world for pity and forgivenes, the Collingwood Football Club deserves it more than most.


Good night all - thanks for the conversation.
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:17 PM
181
Violent crime against Indians in Melbourne is no greater is no greater than anyother ethnic group. If there is racism involved it's not because of hatred it's because Indians are seen as easy targets.
Mainstream media likes to portray the racism as white extremism, but the truth is the perpetrators of these crimes are other ethnic minoritories. Most street violence in Melbourne is commited by Asians, mostly Thai and Vietnamese organised crime gangs and to a lesser degree middle eastern street gangs.
neil
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:12 PM
180
Oh yeah Chittu I forgot one point

They have horrible english

US refers to us Indians who are "well settled" here

"They" refers to those Indians who are tying to Unsettle "US""

Got it ???
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:11 PM
179
Manish Banerjee and G Natrajan has hit the nails right on its head. Let's call a spade a spade.
Richard Tanner
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:04 PM
178
I recently read on NDTV that the NZ (yes, NZ) government were looking at further safety measures that can be installed in taxis.

Look at boosting the police presence in troubled areas and increasing the size of the police force. Develop student housing (where they pay of course) closer to less crime prone suburbs. Fix the job debacle many of them face - increasing their hours/pay slightly will not severely affect the economics, but may prevent them becoming late night fodder.

Crimes with the hint of racism should be dealt with more severely than if it was just a petty theft - in all cases not just involving Indians.

Nathan Jarman, the advice of the police was not to flaunt wealth/mobiles/ipods, and further, not to speak in their NATIVE LANGUAGE while on public transport. What kind of advice is that?

But I am not a politician voted to lead a nation, whom I hope has better brains to tackle such problems.

As to the actions of Shiv Sena, it is merely a response to one who claims "Pakistan is a good neighbour to have".
Pratyush
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:00 PM
177
Sometimes, you refer to Indians as 'us' and sometimes 'they' ...what are you ? half breed? :)
Chittu
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:57 AM
176
Yes, the Aussie government made the biggest mistake by letting these so called “PR factory” colleges open

The students I have seen coming to these colleges are a disgrace to us Indians here.

They

1. Do not have any manners
2. Talk too loud everywhere
3. Refuse to learn the aussie culture
4. Refuse to mingle with the locals
5. Do not have any interest to study
6. Want to get PR ASAP
7. Came here with fraudulent documents
8. Trying the same thing here as most of these colleges are owned my Indians


And I can’t understand how Australia is going to benefit from these clowns other than to make a quick buck.

Do you call these people “Skilled Migrants”. Is the Aussie government insane? They would not even get a job in India let alone Australia......

I call them garbage migrants. Kevin Rudd wake up .......Get actual skilled people
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:51 AM
175
Pratyush,

Please pardon my spelling in the previous post - I'm typing too quickly :)
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:50 AM
174
Have always been intrigued by the fact that most Indian movie stars are of the lighter skin variety. Can someone explain why this is? This is a serious question as I am completely at a loss to explain why Indians seem to prefer them over those with darker skin colour.There are plenty of African American actors along with the queen of the talk shows, Oprah Winfrey
Ray
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:47 AM
173
"The thing that is pissing Indians off is that there does not seem to be any concrete measures being taken. Some sort of constructive dialogue, something should be done - more police, better security. Or at least outlining how they plan to deal with it. Something."...There is concrete measures being taken Praytush. And you should be at least aware of that. Our prisons are overflowing..and the police here have advised Indian students many times about how to travel more safely at night. Not that they listen. And it's hard to have constructive dialogue when Indian ministers and Indian media make hysterical cries of racism and comparing us to apartheid South Africa every 5 minutes.
When the Indian media tells constant lies about the reality of modern Australia you can't be surprised that Australians will try and defend their countries reputation. If Australian ministers and media were telling constant lies about India ,wouldn't you expect Indian people to reply to such comments?..
nathan jarman
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:46 AM
172
Oh the irony of the racist and in tolerant Shiv Sena making the banner news when we open up this topic page! "sena demonstrates outside srk's residence"
Grant
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:46 AM
171
Pratyush
Melbourne, Australia,

What "concrete" action can any Australian government take? We can't stop Indians walking through parks at night, in areas well known or gang violence and (in particular) knife attacks, Yarraville. If Indians choose to do risky jobs like security guards, night shift shop keepers, or taxi drivers, because that would be discriminatory. So what is it, specifically, that Indians expect Australian governments to do?
Flavian Hardcastle
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:39 AM
170
Pratyush,

I agree that the timing in the upswing in racial abuse is interesting.

2005 was the Cronulla riots when the Anglo-Celtics fought back against the Lebanese who were assaulting people, including members of the Surf Life Saving Club, on the beach.

It was also the time of the Pakistani and Lebanese rape gangs targeting Anglo-Celtic women - thankfully all caught and convicted (the NSW Police don't muck around like some police forces).

Why was the Cronulla Police Staion closed that year, forcing the locals to become vigilantes? There were more Anglo Celts prosecurted than Lebanese even though the retaliatory attacks were far more viscious, including burning down a Tongan Pesbyterian Church.? Why was there little media coverage of the retlaliatory attacks? Why didn't the police release the videos of the retaliatory attacks for 5 weeks? (The officer who "lost" the tapes was demoted by the Police Commissioner, Ken Moroney).

Police staions in the city are not closed due to budget cuts, but due to politics. Perhaps you can join the dots here? Seems "someone" was trying to create a racial tinderbox. Let's hope they've choked on their own hate.

The end result was the passing of more draconian laws in NSW.

It's not fair, but you may well have been tarred with the same brush. I'm sorry if that was the case. When politicians use racism to further their own ends, we're all in trouble. Which is what this discussion is about today. And Cronulla is why Australians never want it to happen again.
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:38 AM
169
Pratyush,

I agree that the timing in the upswing in racial abuse is interesting.

2005 was the Cronulla riots when the Anglo-Celtics fought back against the Lebanese who were assaulting people, including members of the Surf Life Saving Club, on the beach.

It was also the time of the Pakistani and Lebanese rape gangs targeting Anglo-Celtic women - thankfully all caught and convicted (the NSW Police don't muck around like some police forces).

Why was the Cronulla Police Staion closed that year, forcing the locals to become vigilantes? There were more Anglo Celts prosecurted than Lebanese even though the retaliatory attacks were far more viscious, including burning down a Tongan Pesbyterian Church.? Why was there little media coverage of the retlaliatory attacks? Why didn't the police release the videos of the retaliatory attacks for 5 weeks? (The officer who "lost" the tapes was demoted by the Police Commissioner, Ken Moroney).

Police staions in the city are not closed due to budget cuts, but due to politics. Perhaps you can join the dots here? Seems "someone" was trying to create a racial tinderbox. Let's hope they've choked on their own hate.

The end result was the passing of more draconian laws in NSW.

It's not fair, but you may well have been tarred with the same brush. I'm sorry if that was the case. When politicians use racism to further their own ends, we're all in trouble. Which is what this discussion is about today. And Cronulla is why Australians never want it happen again.
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:37 AM
168
I am an Indian & have been living in Australia for a few years now, though NOT as a student. Came as a skilled worker to Australia (yes took one of the OZ jobs and I now feel ashamed) mainly because my son used to fall sick in India, after we decided to move back from the US.

Have made lots of OZ friends in the course of time, love the barbie, enjoy a game of local footy with my local friends & a stubbie or two, enjoy the boys weekend at the Murray., Yes, basically have just started to settle into the brilliant OZ culture.. My son goes to a OZ public school & the only anthem he can sing is the Australia one.. I do own a car (call me rich if you want to) unlike the students who use the trains mostly, and never have I experienced any so called, 'on the surface racism' whatsoever. I don't know if there was any 'in the surface' racism though. We enjoy the company of many of our OZ friends that come home to enjoy my wife's home made Indian food ... and we too are invited for barbies/morning teas/afternooon teas to their places...& we too enjoy the bacon & the sausages as much as they enjoy the Indian food.... :)

However, the recent events in Melbourne, and especially the way they are being portrayed in the media like the one here are really worrying. The frequency of phone calls from back home has increased in the last few months !!! All my mates here have been reassuring me not to worry and that everythign will be alright. This definitely does NOT seem to be the work of white Aussies (as portrayed) and there is suspicion that it is being done by immigrants from other countries.

I however just wonder sometimes though, if I would be next !!!
Chittu
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:36 AM
167
"But let me tell you one thing - racism, or even perceived racism, is a scar that remains for a long time. Even one incident a year does remains in your thoughts for a long time. Continuous exposure is enough to make cynics out of anyone - perhaps what happened to Elan.
The government should have seen this, and started dealing with it then. Only allow Indians to immigrate slowly, and gradually, rather than suddenly, increase numbers. But the lure of the quick buck was too much, and the government allowed these ridiculous courses to open."...

You seem to think racism only goes one way Praytush. The amount of times I have had vietnamese,lebanese,african and islander people act in an aggressive and racist way to me I could count in the hundreds. And don't get me started on the italians,greeks,yugoslavs,and turks who have been here for 40-50 years but still whine that Australia has "no culture".
Of course what they really mean is Anglo-Celtic culture has no value. Yet it's the same Anglo-Celtic culture that provided universities for their children and grandchildren to go to. But has this left a scar on me?.. No! And you want to know why?..because idiots come from all backgrounds.
As for the government,these dodgy PR student visa courses were in fact started by Howard. Would you have preferred Rudd to have suddenly closed these schools down when he got elected?.. Imagine the public relations fallout that would have caused. You would have seen headlines from Mumbai to Mysore proclaiming loudly how Australia has robbed the "noble Indian student" of their "hard earned" money. The current government was handed a speeding train by Howard and it will take some time before the train can safely pull into the station.
nathan jarman
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:35 AM
166
More irresponsible and just plain wrong reporting from India. The standards of journalism over there appalling.

This constant anti-Aussie reporting in the Indian media is just inflaming the situation and is driving the wedge between Australians and Indians in even further.

Pratyush, I have also been in Australia a very long time and I consider myself 100% Australian.

I have not experienced a single racist incident in my time here.

Australians now see Indians as being ungrateful, hypocritical whingers, so I can understand where the "f*** off back home" comments are coming from.

The fact that these attacks are occuring is bad, make no bones about it. No doubt some of them are racially motivated. However I think that the behaviour of the new Indian community in Australia and the Indian media in general have greatly contributed to make it worse than it should be.
Brian
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:31 AM
165
Nathan

You again are missing the point and are just further screwing the relations of Australia and India.

India has had some tough times with regards to China, especially with regards to the Sino-Indian War, and the rather outrageous claims that China are making over some North and North-Eastern Indian states. There is also the growing Maoist movement in India, many claiming that they are being funded by China.

The point is, there is SOME sort of basis to the strained relations, least of all the title of being the biggest and best in Asia.

The fact that some of you people are spending so much time trying to fling s*** on the Indians is quite comical. Are you feeling really threatened by an Indian magazine, who OBVIOUSLY will put an Indian spin on the issue?

Do you guys remember what happened to Schapelle Corby, and the virtually hysterical reaction of most Australians to her? I remember a poll where 80% Australians (or something ridiculous) saying she was innocent. I remember the entire judiciary system of Indonesia being lampooned. It's not cool when it happens to you, does it?

The thing that is pissing Indians off is that there does not seem to be any concrete measures being taken. Some sort of constructive dialogue, something should be done - more police, better security. Or at least outlining how they plan to deal with it. Something.
Pratyush
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:30 AM
164
Sasha!

Everyone here talks sense except you.

Where the hell did nuke and army and all that come from?

From your post I realise you just want to win the argument and hate what others have to say

YOU WON... happy???? Now can you talk sense please?
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:22 AM
163
Sorry maybe I didn't make my comments clear enough. I was taking the piss out of this whole manufactured debate perpetrated by the Indian Press. India is desperate to be acknowledged as one of the success stories of the 21st century brought abount mainly by western investment due to low wage costs (Very little else) It all smacks of a country saying hey guys we are succesful now so respect us! Perhaps a result of colonialisation for so many years which resulted in the atypical obseqious Indian character which they are so desperate to distance themselves from due to some modest economic prosperity in comparison to what has gone before.
Ray
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:20 AM
162
Alright Mark, BRad, SMith, Shane, dave and Steve....let's look at it from another angle. Tomorrow if China knocks on our doors with Nuke missiles, you will only have the Indians to protect you. America is almost under the mexicans anyway. So think rationally now, so that you can avoid an embarassment later. Why commit atrocities now and say sorry later. Don't forget that Indian soldiers were fighting the nazis for the anglos...they don't even get a decent burial..they don't even count...

What if white aussies were political prisoners...they may have been sent to Australia for fighting the late empire to free India. You never know why some of these convicts were sent here...So Indians can assume that ancestors of white aussies stood for Indian independence and their government punished them and that's how they became convicts..so there's scope for friendship...
Pratyush, to you I have just one thing to say...Don't try too hard to fit in. You will fall flat on your back...

and hey you Prathyush, don't try too hard to fit in...we can see through your game. Just coz you have two anglo friends, it doesn't mean there are no racists here.
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:19 AM
161
Well, some of these posts, Pratyush from Melb, I'm reading Outlook as a follow up on the article in today's Age. Australia, is mainly a non racist country. Worst racism I've encountered was in Singapore and that was from the Chinese ethnics to the Indians. My Dr is an Indian and she is lovely.This whole racist thingi has gotten so outa control, blame the media. Years ago a person's ethnicity wasn't even mentioned either the assailant or the victum- whay happenned. My only clue to some racism towards Indians is since the telco companies moved the call centres offshore to India. We are bombarded with these calls and obvious Indian accents. Stop the call centres and you may halt some of the ill feelings. Generally, though Australia is not racist not on the scale of your own caste system and comments from Indians in regard to students coming from certain Indian states. Check out your own backyard and don't support the shonky colleges (owned by Indians)looking for PR. Earn it . Cheers Linda
linda dom
kiata, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:11 AM
160
"Cut it out guys we are dealing with sensitive cultural issues here which require our understanding and compassion in order to avoid having Australia further vilified in the Indian press!"...Ray,you just don't get it. The Indian media already hate us. We have become the pantomime villain to which India can blame so many of it's problems. And why are they doing this?.. Because pseudo nationalism sells..because there is very little real trade between us to jepordise..and here is the clincher..because China has much stronger ties to Australia! I'm willing to bet many aussies here aren't fully aware of the internet flame war between India and China. Just go to Youtube and see how many videos there are that proclaim that the world hates India/China..or how India/China will rule the 21st century.
nathan jarman
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:06 AM
159
Pratyush comment 156, I agree completely that the fault lies with the Australian government. When there were small numbers of immigrants it wasn't an issue. Now Australians are seeing their lifestyles going downhill at the same time as the government flooded the country with immigrants and international students, many of them Indian. Any nation would see people start to react to this. Unfortunately the Australian government is far too stupid to understand that they are creating an international incident and to now limit the numbers of immigrants coming in, and let students finish their courses and leave rather than letting stay on permanently. If they took major action now they would defuse the situation.
D.B.
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:05 AM
158
@ Ray

As you are well aware, a key part of the Australian culture is laughing at ourselves and others. This is known colloqually as "Taking the Piss", and is our egalitarian way of demonstrating when we think something is ludicrous to the point of ridicule.

This is not a sensitive cultural issue. This is the result of a number of tabloid newspapers across two continents inciting uneducated people into a nationalistic frenzy in order to (1) convince their readership that they are in someway superior to members of another culture and (2) sell more copies.

Remember that India was once joined to Australia.
http://polardiscover...images/gondwana2.gif
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 11:03 AM
157
Oh Jassi, how did you ever get PR which such crap English skills? Or are you still in limbo, trying to transfer your dodgy course into PR?

I can assure you that my views are manistream, though we are equally angry at the Australian Govt. for allowing these PR scams to occur.

I note no response from an Indian to my comment on Sri Lankan Tamil "asylum seekers" travelling all the way to Australia rather than crossing the 40 mile Palk strait
Grant
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:58 AM
156
@Nathan Jarman

Mate, I have been living in this country since I was 10, and before that I was in India. I am as "aussie" as can be. I am merely relating the troubled times many other Indian students are having.

In the late 90's to early 2000's, I barely experienced any racism, but post 2005, the racism suddenly ramped up - on public transport, while walking down the street, etc. I played cricket for club, and while walking to training, I was frequently told to "f*** off back home". I mean, Australia was much more of a home to me than India, I've lived here most of my life.

But let me tell you one thing - racism, or even perceived racism, is a scar that remains for a long time. Even one incident a year does remains in your thoughts for a long time. Continuous exposure is enough to make cynics out of anyone - perhaps what happened to Elan.

The government should have seen this, and started dealing with it then. Only allow Indians to immigrate slowly, and gradually, rather than suddenly, increase numbers. But the lure of the quick buck was too much, and the government allowed these ridiculous courses to open.

I pity those making excuses, almost as if they are justifying these attacks, by referring to the problems in India. India is expected to grow phenomenally in the coming decades, much more than what was expected after being exploited by the late British Empire.
Pratyush
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:57 AM
155
"Be it USA or UK or Canada these countries have becaome not just immensely rich but also recieved tremendous impetus in their science and technology, and socio cultural development."...The problem with people like you is you are always wearing rose coloured glasses. Having been to Britain I know full well that most people of Indian descent there are not professional university educated people. You always seem to highlight the 15% that work in fields of science and not the 50% that work in manual labour. And as for socio cultural development,surely Indian take away restaurants don't count..or do they?..
nathan jarman
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:56 AM
154
I do not believe that Indians are hated, it's only because in the state of Victoria there are too many criminals. How do I know that? My only daughter was murdered on 17 May 2007. By whom? By the Victorian police force and up to this date the Victorian government with the police are trying everything they can to stop me from exposing these CRIMINALS! they have also gone to the point where they attempted to harm me in the cemetery. They dragged me to the Magistrates court for 18 months to obtain an intervention order against me. This case now has gone to the County Court and due back 10 March 2010 which also happens to be my daughters birth date. The Premier found the opportunity to resign, the Coroner was forced to resign, the police commissioner refuses to reply to my letter and 7 days later she takes off, the police media director and the assistant commissioner are exposed from corruption in other matters 2007 and both of them involved in the murder, The new Coroner is refusing to hold n inquest in to the death of Maritsa (Marie) Chiotelis. So you see it's not hate it is psychopathic criminals that exist here. I know, I have lived here for over 38 years and I say to them p??ta?a? ??e ?a? p?? ?a µ?? pate?
Vagelis
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:54 AM
153
I couldn;t pass it up. jabi123@gmail.com, you seem very bitter, and it appears you live in my home town. Have you looked at the international tables on education. When you are as rich as us, when you live as long as us, when you are as educated as us, when you feed your people rather than building nuclear weapons, when you treat people as humanley as us, when you stop enslaving your women and children, when you stop being one of the greatest traffickers of humans in the world, when you are noted as being as religiously tolerant as us, then you can, and only then feel free to criticise us. If you are so bitter go home to India, and make your life there as you appear to despise us. Guess you can't as you have to pay money to your family so they can laud it over their neighbours back home in India. You obvously don't read, as you would see Australia has recognized the brilliance of some Indians in Australia, I just get the feeling you think you are one of them. But obviously you are not.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:54 AM
152
Only .05 % people are like Grant and .05% are worst than Grant eg. Criminals.

Grant, please don’t mind but you are performing negatively and making bad impressing.
Jassi
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:53 AM
151
I am concerned at the number of posts on this forum from Australia. If this continues I will have to become concerned that this attention to the sub continent could result in passionate even anti-Indian views being held by a large percentage of the population which up until now has not even been on the average Australian's radar
Cut it out guys we are dealing with sensitive cultural issues here which require our understanding and compassion in order to avoid having Australia further vilified in the Indian press!
Ray
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:53 AM
150
Hi Ian
Soon mate !!!!! :)

Hi Alan

My blood boils when I read such articles by the media. They have one and only one agenda in mind.

That is to make money of innocent people who will listen to any crap they say...

They think they know the power of the media.... ???? Well .... SO do I so here I come mate!
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:51 AM
149
That was the best description of the situation I've read yet Prasanth. You ought to apply for a special comments postion at some of these Indian papers.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:49 AM
148
@ Craig

Night Craig. As soon my Indian Boss signs off my timesheet for the time spent with the South African Project manager, I'm going home to pick up my Chilean fiancee, then going out to meet a Transexual Pom and her Japanese housemate.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:46 AM
147
Guys,

99.9 % Australians are good. Only few bad people do all the crime against all and stupid Indian media says it’s against Indians only and it’s racist. Rating stunt of Indian Media…
all crap….

Guys enjoy your day! Don't fight with each other.

Cheers
Jassi
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:46 AM
146
Actually, if India is so civilised, please explain why Australia ends up with boatloads of Tamil economic migrants (aka "refugees") every week yet their compatriots in Tamil Nadu are just a few kms away?

No different to your "students" it would seem - taking economic advantage of our misguided Governmental policies.
Grant
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:46 AM
145
"If you are being paid illegally low wages, report your employer. He will owe you back pay."...If your job is 30 hours a week and your student visa is 20 then they will most certainly not. Why do you think employees are hiring so many Indians? Because they know full well they want and need to work more than 20 hours a week. This is why they offer them lower wages..beggars cannot be choosers.
nathan jarman
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:44 AM
144
@Rob-Multiculturalism is NOT a failure; you look at USA or Canada for that matter. Indian American entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley have created thousands of jobs. Obama administration alone has around 20 Indian Americans in high profile posts. I am a proud Australian proud of my Australian passport (equally proud of my Indian roots). This country gave me an excellent education, an excellent job and a fantastic life style. Just like you Rob, I am also concerned and alarmed about Indian media's irrational sensational branding of Australia as racist. Australia is a beautiful country, beautiful people, who are friendly, warm, tolerant and helpful. There are also this very small group of uneducated jobless gangs who is involved in attacks and bringing bad name to this beautiful country. Of course Australian government has to choose whether they want to make a quick buck by giving PRs to cookery students and "hair stylists" ($14 billion/year). Or Australian government can emulate the American model by giving visas only to those students who have the brains, finances (and admissions to high quality Aus Universities like RMIT, Monash etc).I really wish Indian media stops these irrational sensational reports which are truly damaging the image of Indians in Aus also damaging the otherwise strong diplomatic/economical/defence relationships between these two liberal democracies. And on my previous comment about students getting paid $8 , this practice is too widespread (almost all service stations in Melbourne and almost all markets/Asian groceries in West Melbourne) to be tackled by a single complaint in government authority. It is the SYSTEM that has to change; individual complaints won’t fix the system,. And people PLEASE PLEASE don’t make it an India Vs Australia issue, its all a misunderstanding, fuelled by irresponsible Indian media + slow Vic police+ low life junkies on the street. Don’t let the brainless junkies dictate the relationship between these 2 countries!! And immigration is not the culprit BUT uncontrolled mindless immigrations is (eg: giving PR to lure students of substandard courses etc).
prasanth
Melb, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:44 AM
143
@ Grant.

I have nothing against Indian supermarket clerks, except they keep insisting on putting things into plastic bags, then putting the plastic bags into the offered reusable "green" shopping bag.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:42 AM
142
Well enough anti Indian rants from me for today, so I apologise if I offended all the Indian accountants out there. I'm now off to a meeting with a Chinaman, a Norwegian, an American, and a couple of Poms, and shock horror some evil white Australians. To assist with the Hate all Indians campiagn I have not asked my Indian worker to attend, initially it was because I have him working on a different project but now it can only be because I hate him.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:41 AM
141
Geez Karthik, where've you been mate? You're exactly what these sorts of boards need.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:37 AM
140
Dear Indian,

We have enough taxi drivers and supermarket clerks to last a lifetime now. Please try Canada?

Love,
Australia
Grant
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:37 AM
139
If you look at the history of Indian migration across the globe you will find that Indians have made substantial contribution to the economy and the culture of those nation. Be it USA or UK or Canada these countries have becaome not just immensely rich but also recieved tremendous impetus in their science and technology, and socio cultural development. Be it the email which Sabeer Bhatia (Indian) developed who migrated to USA after getting educated in India., or many million other examples.

USA and UK have been extremely appreciative about the contribution of Indians till date., unfortunately because of the inheritance of Aussies they still do not come to the grim reality that if they are lousy and idiots (mathematics is their biggest weakness) they cannot blamce Indians.

I think they are better off without Indians and rather live with their young spoilt generations who drinks beyond their capacity and extremely bad pareting (no culture) at all, so if someone says Indians are abusive then I guess they are better off with their drunkards who are spoiling this country.

Lastly, the tolerance of Indians is always considered weakness but this tolerance only brings out the harmony in diverse cultures, the best example is India itself., if Aussies can learn one thing they should learn tolerance from Indians.

Cheers
jabi123@gmail.com
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:35 AM
138
Hi Craig


1. Have you ever been ripped off by an Indian taxi driver... A RESOUNDING YES. How do i know? I have been ripped off........


2. If you have been to India has your female partner ever been molested by Indian males.......

A RESOUNDING YES..How do i know.. I have lived in India for 20 years
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:31 AM
137
Dinesh Kumar. We don't hate you all, we only dislike some of your crickters like Harbajahn Singh and idiots like Elan and the tool from FISA, Gautam Gupta.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:30 AM
136
See.. look at all the Xenophobic Australians. We hate accountants. We think all people who are good at maths are pooftahs.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:30 AM
135
Karthik,

LOL - when does your morning radio show start? :)

Peter MC,

I think we've already worked out that Elan has never been to Australia - if he had, he'd never be a Collingwood supporter!
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:27 AM
134
@ Pete

Carn The Pies!
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:24 AM
133
Exactly right Matt. My accountant is too expensive, so we need to drive down his wages, as he puts it up above inflation every year. Mind you he finds an extra thousand each year, so maybe he is worh it. Acountant rage, should replace the mythical Indian rage, then everything would be solved, unless of course we bring in more Indian accountants, then we would have Indian Accountant rage. Such a vicous cricle.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:23 AM
132
Sorry I went quiet for a while because I enrolled and completed a 'criminology' degree at one of the crappy bogus colleges that some Indian guy runs in the city. Took me a few hours to complete my entire degree, but I still have enough time to do 5 part time jobs (20 hrs each).

Now Elan, the guy who was entertaining us with his words of wisdom earlier. I have done a profile on him; I'm now a criminolgist afterall.

- Spent 30 unhappy years in Australia (I am guessing he left around early 1990.
- Thinks everyone is at fault, except him. The authorities are crucifying us, he'd say.
- Tattoos
- Illiterate
- No teeth
- Tends to spend September gardening.
- Highly emotional and bitter.

Are you guys seeing what I'm seeing?

Yep, you guessed it. He's a Collingwood supporter.

No wonder he is bitter. Forgive him Lord for he knows not what he does.
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:22 AM
131
Why the Aussies hate us...there are too many of us, we break their rules, we are dirty and inconsidrate, we are loud mouthed and show off. Enough reasons for anyone to hate us!
Dinesh Kumar
Chandigarh, India
Feb 01, 2010 10:21 AM
130
Actual fact:

Australian police are some of the most professional, smart and highly skilled people in the world.

They are kind and treat everyone fairly and with respect irrespective of race or gender.

They are doing a fantastic job under immense pressure and a tough and dangerous working environment.

Victoria police had to drag Indian students a year back because students IGNORED their fair warning to clear a public area

(Anything wrong with that dumb ass Indian media?)

They where disrupting traffic and the great Melbourne lifestyle.



As reported in the Indian newspaper Times Wow and wirtten by editor-in-chief Arebaba Gotnoclue



Busted .......OZ police atrocities against Indian students. Shocking images attached!!

Melbourne: “Tell me ......When Indians are going to stop suffering deep down under? How can this happen?” questions editor-in-chief Arebaba Gotnoclue

(He sits in India and has never been to or tasted the great Aussie lifestyle and unbelievably friendly people.)

Arebaba Gotnoclue interviews an Aussie Indian student*** who has been in Australia for 1 day and 32 minutes!!!!???? (Huh???)

“Got a minute you 1-day-32-minute-student?” asks Arebaba Gotnoclue

“Yes yes i come to Australia and all Australians racist we get hit everywhere” says our proud student in broken English (I mean how the hell did he pass the English test?)

“So there you go Indian people .... Look at what’s happening Deep Down Under here” CONCLUDES Arebaba Gotnoclue. ( I really mean CONCLUDED)



***It was later found out that the student graduated and got Masters in Engineering in India, Applied to study nursing through some dodgy agent in India, representing dodgy Colleges operated in Australia by Indians .... He got a fake statements of funds available from a dodgy bank manager in India ..................


Phew the story hasn’t finished yet .....

Upon arriving he realized he was enrolled in hairdressing (WTF).... and had to work as a taxi driver.....
What the hell?????? All Aussies are Racists our 1-day-32-minute-student CONCLUDED

Join TIMES WOW editor-in-chief Arebaba Gotnoclue for a special debate on this issue with Motawala Chief of police ( Stands first in the most corrupted cop list )
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:17 AM
129
Can I make a basic suggestion. With all the call centres in India and with the cost of labour being minimal and the cost to collect data over the phone nominal, could not Outlook poll all 250, 000 Indians in Australia and collate and analyse these stats to determine the truth. Also then do the same with all Australians and non Australians residing in Oz and you could then formulate an informed opinion. But remember it needs to be objective, so maybe include some questions like, Have you ever been ripped off by an Indian taxi driver/ If you have been to India has your female partner ever been molested by Indian males? Did you feel Indians are racist when you were being stoned in India becuase they were caling you white shit?
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:15 AM
128
I wish that the Indian Consulates in Australia would look at the example of the government of the People's Republic of China. After a couple of attacks on mainland Chinese students in inner-city Sydney (Redfern and Alexandria from memory - they're favoured by overseas students for being close to both Sydney and New South Wales Universities and are relatively cheap), the Chinese Consulate and the New South Wales Police quietly joined forces to educate the Chinese students about personal safety in these poor suburbs. The crimes were solved (not carried out by Anglo-Celtics by the way) and the number of attacks dropped immediately. Has the Indian Consulate in Melbourne tried to join forces with the Vicotrian Police in the same way? If yes, then that's great - it's just that we haven't heard about it yet.
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:07 AM
127
Yeah Right Mate

Why Aussies hate Indians ... true that is .01 % of the population!!!!

How About "WHY AUSSIES LOVE INDIANS AND ANYONE COMING TO THIS FANTASTIC COUNTRY.... AND THE AUSSIES WELCOME THEM WITH OPEN ARMS"

..... TRUE AS WELL that is the other 99.99% of the population

You feel stupid now don't you MR Editor-in-chief Vinod Mehta ?
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:07 AM
126
What sensationalist rubbish you have printed!
Why don't you expose the real reason behing Australian's resentment of Indians - namely the fact that tens of thousands are gaming Australia's immigration system by enrolling in dodgy courses like hospitality purely to access PR.
We do not want such an influx and so it would seem that society is unable to accept such a massive rorting of our hospitality.
If these so-called "students" really wanted an education, they would not be studying cookery courses.
Stop spreading lies and deal with your indigenous issues instead.
Grant
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:06 AM
125
@ Craig

There we have it. There are plenty of jobs here that Indians can do that Australians would never be caught doing.

Like being accountants.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:04 AM
124
prasanth, if Indian students are being underpaid then all they need do is go to the appropriate government body within each state with evidence, which they should have unless they work illegally, and they will be back paid, with interst. Unlike the majority of the world we have a minimum wage and if they are adults in is approximatelty $16 per hour. Now if they are working illegally, then suffer, as they are then dealing in the black economy which is against the law. If they need support on this matter they should approach FISA as according to their spokesman he is their to help. Mind you he is primarily their to help himself, and has caused and is causing a lot of the problems that are now presenting themselves between our two people. As with many issues realting to this matter, Indian students claim they are never assisted, but then they often have not gone to the authorities for fear of being deported and instead run off to the media (15 minute syndrome I suggest).
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:00 AM
123
First of all, you pathetic souls who lambast Australia for its convict past need to quietly shut the hell up. A nation of "convicts" which consistently ranks in the top 5 of the Human Development index and has an annual GDP not far off India's despite having over 1 billion people less. Yeh, what a racist primitive hellhole we live in! The labours of Europeans made this country so liveable and millions of immigrants have partaken and reaped the benefits, yet you retards can only come up with brilliant arguments like "white people go home."

As for the main issue, pretty much all Indians I have met have been polite and respectful, although somewhat timid and an easy target for thugs. I applaud the writer for pointing out that its likely that other foreign immigrants are carrying out these attacks. Growing up in Melbourne I witnessed too many times the penchant for violence that young Lebanese thugs, who in no way should be labelled Austrlian, have.

Nonetheless, failing to understand basic social etiquette, like eye raping white girls and singing Indian folk music on trains has caused some resentment in the wider Australian community against Indians. A fair few female friends of mine have complained of the rudeness of Indian men.

However there is a greater issue at stake here, the fiction of multiculturalism. Modern day political correctness dictates that what you should think is more important than what you actually DO think. Believe it or not people actually like living around people of the same ethnicity as themselves. The mantra "diversity is strength" is a mere poignant buzz phrase, as the only real strength diversity gives is a better selection of restaurants. A Harvard study recently concluded that racially diverse areas are actually less civically active and prone to people distrusting each other.

Sure the vast majority of Australian would never violently attack immigrants, however pretty much everyone I know has said something derogatory about other ethnicities which they would not dare say in the public sphere, all the while the Government keeps trying to portray a picture of racial unity. As Indian numbers increase, just like it did with Asians, these comments become more common. Labelling Australia a racist country is pretty stupid, as pretty much every country which has experienced an influx of foreigners who find it difficult to adapt finds itself laden with tension. When Indians were low in number and were a novelty to see in Australia there was little problem, but when they start becoming so numerous people are quick to comment. Of course that sounds quite racist and intolerant but its basic human nature.

My only hope is that a lowered amount of immigration and students will allow the Government to better educate Indians on how to act in Australia and to avoid danger, ie walking through a park in the western suburbs at night.
Rob
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 10:00 AM
122
@ prasanth.

Minimum wage is $14.31 an hour.

http://www.fwa.gov.au/

If you are being paid illegally low wages, report your employer. He will owe you back pay.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:53 AM
121
Fantastic post Prasanth

I have lived In Australia for 8 years and I am a proud AUSTRALIAN. I carry my AUSSIE PASSPORT with pride because this country has given me so much.

1. A fantastic education
2. A fantastic job and business
3. Some of the friendliest people on earth
4. The best lifestyle a person can have


Editor-in-chief of Outlook Vinod Mehta , Mate, get a life and F**k off.....Why don’t you look at you own servants you have in your house and look at how you treat them first......

Get your own crap country right first ... You don’t need to tell us here what is right or wrong.

You are making our lives difficult for us here.

I am sick of this crap saying Aussies are racists
karthik
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:52 AM
120
The vilification of Australians needs to stop. It's just aussie bashing, pure and simple. It's juvenile, and it's irresponsible.
It's not the first time a developing country has decided to attack us for their own domestic purposes.
It would be very easy for the Australian government to point out the crimes, including rape and murder, committed by Indian citizens in our country - there are many. It would also be very easy for the Australian government to point out the crimes committed against Australians in India - there are also many. It would also be easy for them to highlight the extreme level of hypocrisy at play. The reason they don't is that it is irresponsible to vilify an entire country of people - that is actual racism; it breeds intolerance and hatred - which is precisely what the Indian media and some members of their government are doing.
It is obvious that Australia is not a racist country; we have a diverse population of people from 190 countries, practising every major religion, and living, overwhelmingly, in peace, prosperity and harmony. That is one reason why so many people want to live here and take advantage of our open immigration system.
There are cases where people migrate to Australia, and continue reliving old feuds with people from other countries; if you knew Australia, you would know that such behaviour is hated and condemned, and the general feeling is that people come to this country to get away from racism, and to leave their predjudice at the door.
Obviously with such a diverse population you indeed can get racism; but it is not prevalent - I understand a relatively closed country like India would have trouble understanding the reality in a multiracial country like Australia.
I am concerned that crime is higher than I would like in Melbourne; low by international standards, but higher than we would like by our standards.
I think the best thing our Government could do is ensure the Indian students who come here have adequate financial resources so that they don't talk risky night jobs and live in rough suburbs far away from campus and can afford a car instead of catching public transport late at night.
Tony
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:49 AM
119
I am not an accountant. I'd rather be a chai-wallah than an accountant.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:49 AM
118
The headline screams out "Why Aussies hate Us" Well the word hate implies a high level of passionate awareness of India and Indians by all Australians to develop hatred towards them. I can assure you that 99.9% of Australians do not occupy their minds with such things to cause hatred. they are too busy going about their daily lives to indulge in such a negative past-time. Also recession was given as a reason why there is a backlash against Indians where in fact Australia has avoided the world wide recession caused by the Global Financial Crisis. (almost alone amongst developed economies) Neither is it mentioned that regards the murder of an Indian student in rural New South Wales last year three suspects have been apprehended and happen to be, wait for it, Indian Nationals living in Australia. I can assure you that I deplore any attacks on students studying here and the more hysterical the reaction from India and the more publicity that generates gives rise to copycat crimes being committed. Have you accused the English of racism with their threat to boycott the Commonwealth games in India this year? As far as I know Australia will be there. The recent tour by the Pakistan cricket team was conducted without any incidents and there was mutual respect shown by both the teams. In fact many Australian cricketers commented on the friendly attitude of some of their players. So in closing yes there are elements of racism in Australia as there are in India and every country in the world but to present as fact a very biased report on why Aussies hate us does no service to the standards of journalism in India and is merely provoking further tension between the two countries
Ray
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:45 AM
117
If Indias really believe we are such a vile nation, why do they not refuse entry to all Australians and their atheletes for the Commonwealth games. I think this would send a very strong message to all people that the Indian Government truelly believe what is being said and are supportive of the Sihks and Indians that are being slaughtered by the 1000s in Australia. I note the difference of Sihks and Indians as does the Indian media. One advantage of banning us from the games is England would then dominate the games, so good for their egos. Also whilst they ban our visitors and atheletes send home our planners, Engineers, Project Managers, and stadium specialists that have gone to India to assist with the building of games infrastructure in New Delhi. I guess in the end they need Australia to attend and assist so they are not shamed in front of the world.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:42 AM
116
@nathan jarman
@nathan jarman
I must say that you have absolutely no idea about a student's life in Melbourne. I was a student few years back and I KNOW. You think a student can get $280 /week by working 20 hours?? ($14/hour). WRONG! If you ever come to Footscray market or sunshine markets ask the Indian student working in the market how much he get paid?!! They are getting paid $6/hour!!!! An Indian at a service station is getting paid $8-$10/hour (BP pays $16/hr though). It is the failure of government since they failed to punish the predatory employers who are exploiting the hapless students. Hence students forced to work more than 20 hours often at late night shifts. And you are right, only those who can afford should come to Australia for studies,I agree.
prasanth
Melb, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:39 AM
115
@Prasanth (Comment 114)

Well said :)
Tejas Oza
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:28 AM
114
Now Elan, will you please please stop your comments, if you think you are helping Indians you are wrong. You are not only embarrassing all Indian Australians like me but also creating a bad image of Indians. Same for you Sasha, your comments are extreme and lacks logic.
I am an Australian citizen of Indian origin who lived in Footscray for 3 years when I was studying for my Masters in Deakin. Now, I have NEVER experienced any racist comments from anyone in 5 years of my stay in Australia. This country has given me everything and I am so proud to show my Australian passport to any Airports in the world (I also keep an overseas Indian origin passport and am equally proud of my Indian roots). I have many friends who had been attacked while at work or travelling. Undoubtedly many of the attacks had been racial in nature since most attacks were followed by racial abuse. Interestingly roughly only 50% of racist attackers are committed by "White Anglo " gangs, rest are either Asian, Sudanese/Somalian or Islander(Fiji,Samoa, etc) gangs. These gangs are made of jobless uneducated alcoholic thugs who are living on centrelink payments (doll). THEY DO NOT REPRESENT Australian society and Indian media and those Indians who have never been to Australia MUST UNDERSTAND this fact. Victorian police/govt is equally responsible since I have been hearing about this attack on Indians since 2005, but Victoria government ignored this till it became an international issue last year.
Majority 99% Australians are friendly and VERY WARM AND HOSPITABLE. But Indian students should also learn some manners and should be trained in how to behave at public places. Indians are the most successful ethnic group in USA (with highest national income). The reason being, America’s immigration policy is tilted towards bright high quality students (as opposed to cookery, hair styling student focus of Australia's). Undoubtedly only the worthy can get in to USA and become a citizen. Those American Indians are highly successful and contributing immensely to the American society. Australia should follow the same American model and give PR to only worthy individuals, not semi literate cookery students. Finally Indian media should show some restrain and allow Australian police to carry out normal investigation and please stop branding the country as racist. And to those "patriotic" Aussies commenting here thinking you are defending your country by asking Indian immigrants to go back, you are only re emphasising the (false) imaging of Australia as a racist nation.
prasanth
Melb, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:26 AM
113
Craig - I think there is something wierd with anybody openingly admitting to be an accountant - especially on a first date.

There was a case in NSW a few years ago when a number of Doctors (from Pakistan I believe, not India) failed the exam that all foreign doctors have to sit before they are able to practice medicine in this state. Rather than go off and study, they chained themselves to the fence outside parliament house, and cried that they were being discriminated against.

Another case - A friend of mine works for State Rail. He was verbally abused by an Indian co-worker, who then went off and played the race card, accusing my friend of initiating the attack. Fortunately, the whole interchange was caught on security camera. The instigator was eventually dismissed for cheating on his train driver exam.

As somebody who has lived and worked in another culture where I didn't speak the language, I am well aware of the need to adopt local customs to fit in. I never stopped being Australian, but I had to learn to fit in with the local way of acting and doing things to be accepted in that society.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:23 AM
112
"If I worked 20 hours a week at award wages, I would barely pay for my rent! The Australian government is playing a two faced game, allowing them to study here and yet, by the work restriction laws, forcing them in live in crappy conditions."...Actually most award wages pay at least 14 dollars an hour..which at 20 hours a week would be 280 dollars. Now if you can't pay rent on 280 dollars a week I suggest you look for someone cheaper to rent. You seem to miss the key point of studying in Australia..it's to study.
Australia as well as any other foreign country owes you ZERO obligation to work while you are here. The Chinese students here understand this,but the Indians clearly don't. If you don't like it,come here with more money like the Chinese or study at home in India.
nathan jarman
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:23 AM
111
"Elan"
I have been to India a number of times- each of which I have been shocked by the cruelty of it's people to one another. You have a cast system placed upon your society!
You should really focus on your own back garden before criticising others.

As its been stated the Indian media is particularly encouraging this negativity between our countries, of which in the long run will do more damage for India than for any Australians or our reputation.
As long as you keep pulling out the race card, this unnecessary hatred will continue.
YOU HAVE A CHOICE!
nin
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:17 AM
110
Stephen,

By your own words Stepehen, the UK government wants genuine students, not just people trying to immigrate. I believe that the agents in India are Indian? It's no different here. The system was abused, it's now being corrected and the agents are looking for a new system in a different country to abuse.
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:11 AM
109
Ian, the Indian Accountants and Engineers don't need to go through the dodgy shcools. They need to sit the appropriate exam within Australia to gain their accreditation. It is not a racist exam, as anyone from any country where the level of accreditation is not the same level as Australia must sit it. Same goes for Drs, plumbers, fitters and turners etc. What is being observed is that Inidans along with nationals from a couple of other countries show excessively high numbers of their nationals presenting fraudulant documents. I work for a company where of the 420 staff hired in December 2009 in India it was found the number of staff that presented degrees and masters from Indian unversities 280 were found to be forged. So I think this shows you need to be vigilant when people claim to be Engineers or Accountants.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:06 AM
108
To Ian=UK Government stopped Visa processing FORM north India not due to fraud but for the overwhelming application compared to the same period last year.learn to read English properly.Fraud was commuted by Australian sham colleges agents in India and the Govt here conveniently pimped for it.The Uk also mentioned that it does not want immigrants and want genuine students=that means we do not wan tot cheat Indian students by promising them PR which Australia did.Learn form your cousins how to be honest and truthful.
Stpehen Jose
Brisbane, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 09:00 AM
107
If the Indian media and government presented the facts you will see that very little out of the ordinary is occuring relatibve to the Indian population. The assaults have predominantly not been committed by white Australians as often presented. You government has been given a portfoliio on the attacks and from this they are selectively realeasing information. Why don't you demand that the Indian government release all the details they have been supplied, and that your media report accurately on the report. Indians are being arrested for murder, rape, fraud, and theft in Australia on an ever increasing scale. Do I or most Australians believe this then represents all Indians in Australia, probabley not as every Australian I socialise with mix with educated professional Indians, not the fraudulent Indian student who cannot speak English, and is involved in visa fraud, and who attends vovational colleges set up by Indain companies in Australia which are the ones constantly being caught for visa fraud.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:57 AM
106
Pratyush,

Agreed that Indians are some of the brightest people around - I work with them (IBM, TCS, HCL etc). But you'd have to agree that Elan can't count himself amongst that group? None of my Indian colleagues spout the hate speech and vitriol that Elan does.

Please note that most of the dodgy training schools pandering to the Indian market were owned by former Indian nationals the same way that most of the dodgy training schools pandering to the Korean market were owned by former Korean nationals. And it was quire clear that the UK had an increase in fraudulent student visa applications from North India (majority) plus other South Asian nations, some African nations and Brazil. The Australian goverment has also cracked down on student visa appliactions from these countries, but not as strongly as the UK government.

The change to the training legislation by the Howard Government in 2006 is what got this dodgy training school business started in the first place. It's quite ridiculous that an Indian trained engineer or accountant has to go through this silly pretense to gain permanent residency here. That's what I find racist.
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:53 AM
105
If India can regulate it's citizens going to the middle east why cant we regulate them coming to Australia. Look how Britain has stopped processing north Indian Visa applications where as Australia looked at it as convenient way of getting Indian money,which their nationals do not want.China similarly has banned it's citizens coming to sham colleges but only to mainstream universities.For Indians mainstream uni's are also not suitable because Australia does not have that many institutions.
Recall the recent BBC focus magazine survey which sasy-Australia is a nation number one in sin.Envy is high on their minds and Lust behind none.These guys are they capable of teaching Indians Morality and ethics. Indians accept that we have problems but we dont project it on others as some comments but we dont go around the world and cheat people saying this is a peaceful society and the best place in the world.Only stupids like north Indian punjabis will listen to this and come here thinking of getting good education but eventually get bashed up or go home back in coffins.
The Punjab Government should seek advice from successful Punjabi's living abroad and set up institutions that can train it's youngsters and make use of them in nation building. What Aussies know about punjabis,the most prosperous and enterprising people in India and the world and loathing Aussies can no where come near them.
Stpehen Jose
Brisbane, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:50 AM
104
Rajneesh Batra is correct Indians are outperforming us everywhere. It has been three years since a non Indian cleaned my car, drove me in a taxi, or served me in a pertol station or 7/11, and now only one cleaner at work is a non Indian. At the University of New England in 2007, of the 204 thesis presented by Indian students for their Masters in IT, 200 were found to be fraudulent (google it if need be), and once again you outperformed us in that, as no non-India was found to have committed fraud. Of all the actual murders of Indians in the past twelve months in Australia all but one has been found to have been committed by an Indian national, and that one is still being investigated. Man you beat us again. Of all the rapes and sexual assaults committed by taxi drivers in Adelaide in 2009, all were found to have been committed by Indians. Damn you guys are good. Like anyone I can be selective and prove how violent, racist, arrogant, misogynistic and uneducated all Indians are, just as if I choose I can prove the opposite. And this is the major flaw with the whole Indian media, Indian student union and Indian politicians side of the argument.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:47 AM
103
They have started to arrest the people attacking Indians and they are other Indians. The only racist people involved are Indian.
Rajneesh
Islamibad, India
Feb 01, 2010 08:42 AM
102
Elan.

You have fallen for the media hype in toto. You see there is racism in every country on the planet. It is how that country deals with it that counts.
So Elan how do you explain that at least three of these attacks were made by Indian Nationals. What is racist about their attacks?
Scott Grundy
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:37 AM
101
Please do not villify Elan. Elan my brother. I have a number of a good psychiatrist in San Jose. He is an Anglo-Indian. He fled communnal and racist violence in India. I am sure you are. Please forgive us and our racist hearts and return soon to Australia. We will greet you with open arms and help you overcome your hate for the nation that allowed you to have freedom until you migrated to the US. One question. Why did you never return to India? The Indians in America are native Americans. Were you a little confused believing that you were going to India, but ended up in the US. Don't feel ashamed. A famous explorer once made the same mistake. Also if you do return you can join the disprapportianate number of Indian 'students' that have presented with mental health issues in Australia which the Australian taxpayer then needs to support, as the Indian Government, and the students families disown them due to having a mental illness, found to have constistantly been brought on by the stress of being removed from their famiies but most importantly the pressure put on them to provide for their spunging relatives in India.
Craig
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:35 AM
100
A special post, just for Elan:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6161691.stm

Get over it.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:34 AM
99
A special post, just for Elan:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6161691.stm

Get over it.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:27 AM
98
Elan,

Any school leaver can get a bank job here, no matter what race or culture you come from. Graduates too.

You've never been here have you? Liar, liar, pants on fire!
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:27 AM
97
Burnt Gurudwara really is a big thing. I am really sad for this and this is really a big concern. But you can’t blame this to everyone in Australia. I don’t want to argue with anyone that who is wrong or right because there is no ending to this all I can say is there are always bad elements everywhere in Australia or India or anywhere.

I would assume 100 incidents were recorded in Australia out of these 100, 3 were with Indian people and Indian media made these highlights saying RACISM.

They just want five star rating by highlighting this as RACISM because everyone will read this because it’s hot topic these days.

They should complete all investigation.

Police is definitely slow but lets hope for truth to come out for everything.
Jassi
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:26 AM
96
Hey Ian

The reason that the UK has suspended visa applications from the North (only the North) region of India is over-application, brought about by people leaving Australia and applying for the UK.

And Ian, saying that Elan will form a "hair dressing school" is just ignorant. Indians are the MOST successful ethnic group in the US - having the highest earnings, and the highest education level among any other ethnic group (even the whites). One particularly illustrative statistic is that almost 1/3 NASA employees are of Indian origin.

Simply because they work crapper jobs here does not mean it is echoed everywhere.
Pratyush
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:19 AM
95
Elan says he was professionally a victim of racism in Australia. With his grammar and moronic outburts, maybe there were better candidates for the jobs he was applying for.

Sometimes there is racism, but Indians use the 'racism' word because they know that whites are over-sensitive to it. It's a bit like being critical of Israel's policies and then being accused of being anti-semetic.

It is a no win situation for whites because if you try to defend you are accused of being in denial. The judge and jury do their job and an entire nation is charged with racism in the meantime.

Sad.
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:12 AM
94
hey jassi it your gurdawaras getting burned in mebourne and sydney
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 08:07 AM
93
there are documented stories of conflict with greek/italians and white north european australian migrants mostly irish slaves and english convict descendants so these irish slaves and english and scottish convict descendants basically fought everyone beginning everyother migrant group that came

if australians on this board do not think racism in australia is a problem they need to worry about why are they on this board trying to everyone that would listen which is not many that there is no racism in australia sounds like typical convict aussie logic to me D.B is inflaming racism on site with his extreme right wing views what can you expect from an ill bred and ill born son of a whore in my 30 years plus in australia most white australians i met were ill born and ill bred and school leavers ofcourse you could get even bank jobs being a school leaver and a white
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 08:05 AM
92
DEFINITELY, INDIAN MEDIA IS PLAYING VERY BAD ROLE ON THIS ISSUE. THEY DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE ISSUE AND JUST MAKE EVERYTHING IN THEIR HEADLINES AS ‘RACIST’. SHAME ON THIS FREE MEDIA. THEY ARE AFTER MONEY….. JUST WANT FIVE STAR RATING.

NOW SOME TIMES I DOUBT WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT PAKISTAN’S ROLE IN INDIA TO PROMOTE TERRORISM. I THINK THIS CAN BE JUST A MEDIA STUNT AS WELL…..
Jassi
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 08:01 AM
91
DB, I don't know why you think it's inflammatory. have u ever criticised some of the real racist remarks have emerged on blogs? ok..aren't you with me to build a just Australia? Don't you believe in reconciliation? do't u think tassy needs a break from the looters? if u do not suipport my views, you are un australian! So who should go back>? u decide.
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:59 AM
90
Elan and Sasha,

What nasty pieces of work you are! I pity people with hate in their hearts like you. Elan, if you hate Australia so much, why do you keep the Australian passport? Why did you stay for 30 years? Actually, I think you're fibbing, whiling away the hours in a call entre in Mumbai, surfing Wikipedia - you've never been in Australia have you?

Please also note that, as of yesterday, the UK Government has suspended all student visa applications from India for three month due to a massive increase in fraud in the last three months of 2009. Obviously now that Australia has tightened up its system and put the fradulent schools out of business, the criminal agents in India are targetting the UK.

Where next Elan? Maybe San Diego in the USA? You could run a hair-dressing school there.
Ian
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:49 AM
89
I am Australian born and bred. I'm caucasian (on the surface), have a private education, live in a good part of town and have been in a professional job for a few years. I'm connected to India by my grandmother who is Indian and have been raised to have a strong connection to both countries.

Melbourne is a wonderful, friendly, clean, city. You walk down the street, go to the office, go to university, catch a train and sit next to Indians, South Americans, Africans, Muslims, Christians, Hindu's, Jews.

I believe that Indians have been targeted. But by who? And Why? Like in any country in the world, with any easily identifiable minority group like Indians here, there are bad elements of society namely, racists, extremists, crazy extreme right wing politicians, people who are angry they are out of work and looking for something to blame, or murderers who would go so far as to abuse or beat an innocent man for no reason other than their own demons. It's sick. But not me... And not millions and millions of other Australians. it's decidedly un-australian. We are in a strong majority as sympathetic and as disgusted as any Indian.

Australia thinks it's sick and would do anything to stop it. And if we aren't doing enough, we should to more.

Indians in Australia should band together as one and stand strong and proudly as part of Australia while they are here. Not fear. But don't point fingers and blame it on the entire country of Australia. It only creates unproductive animosity between the countries. India has had it's own struggles with racism throughout it's history, and I wouldn't label Indians racist... All I ask is that you hold close that Australia and India will beat this together and make our guests a future residents proud and comfortable to be here.
Andrew (Melbourne Australia)
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:48 AM
88
Sasha, comment 82, you need to realise that your attitude,as an Indian living in Australia, is obscene, and the statements you make about Australians could be used to incite violence against Indians by mindless mobs in the same way as this article could be used to incite violence against Australians by likewise mindless mobs. You need to think more clearly and show a little gratitude to the nation that allowed you to move there. If I thought you were in any way a true example of Indians in Australia I would be out demonstrating to have you all removed. The fact is that most Indians are very nice and decent people in my own experience, and it's unfortunate that some like you have been allowed into my country.
D.B.
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:48 AM
87
given the number of white australian married to chinese and indians my own sister in law is white australian very soon all white australians will have a indian or chinese grandmother or grandfather wow so much for white australia ha ha ha and then add to that all your ddays marrying a thai at the age of 60 and having a few more kids where does exactly white australia stand in another generation or two nowhere i suppose
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 07:43 AM
86
D.B

FUCK OFF YOU CONVICT BTURD
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 07:43 AM
85
Looks like this board is descending to the lowest common denominator as usually happens. If I may make a suggestion - don't respond to a post that's clearly inflammatory. It only fuels the media circus that's causing many of the problems to start with.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:42 AM
84
Brothers and Sisters, Let us build an Australia devoid of racism. let us build an Australia that is honest about reconciliation with its native people. Let's restore the lost glory of Australia. Let Australia be the beacon of freedom to the millions of underprivileged in this world. Let us invite refugees, let us adopt more kids from the under developed. We have a moreal responsibility. Let us build true brotherhood between Aboroginals, Indians, chinese, lebanese, vietnamese and the anglo saxons who are willing to believe that a true and just Australia is possible. let us shun this farce of a democracy, let us shun the Union jack. Australia forever. We will live and die for a just Australia.
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:38 AM
83
D.B.

i am an indian that carries an australian passport and it my right to enter and live in australia like any australian so if you were to tell me to levae i will tell you to fuck off you filthy convict bloody basturd i would advise sasha to tell you the same
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 07:38 AM
82
DB, I think you must leave. I know you are threatened with the truth. Do you really think you have a choice anymore? I mean seriously. U really thought you could set up a white nation in Asia? How much more ridiculous can that be? U really think Australia as a white nation will sustain for another 50 or 100 years? u have to be kidding. I mean seriously..what happening in Zimbabwe and South Africa? Let's look at it logically. I'm only saying it's not sustainable. Stop Looting Tasmania, Stop looting the mines of Australia. Go back!
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:36 AM
81
tejas oza

i lived in australia for 30 years thanks very much faced racism at each and every and every step all the time every time I qualified with several degrees faced racism at each and every job got good jobs but racism and politicking was too much i still have property and family in australia but for professionals reasons whether they respect people for skills and talent i moved to USA I know every nook and corner of Australia and Australian racism that i could do a thesis on on it I knew Indian and chinese community leaders long before the general public knew them I know exactly what I am saying
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 07:33 AM
80
If Sasha is an Indian living in Australia I would ask you to please leave. We don't need your kind here and you have a country of your own to go to.
D.B.
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:31 AM
79
To Pratyush, comment 68, international students are supposed to be allowed to work up to 20 hours per week, but they work illegally, for much longer, and for pay that is below what Australians can live on. The US has struggled with illegal immigrants doing this to their people as well, as so has England with the Poles and Ukrainians. Australians have right to be angry about that, and really, foreign students should not be allowed to work at all. They should be entirely self-funding or they should not come to Australia.
D.B.
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:31 AM
78
you aussies do not even own your own country the mayor of melbourne is chinese australian for ages hey the australian ambassador to india is an indian origin australian man you aussies have lost your country to others America elected its first black president while Australian unofficial policy is to kill blacks remeber the somali refugees you mistreated hey Australians threw babies of refugees at sea that teh norwegians had teh heart to rescue and the australians reverse accused the refugees of throwign their own babies to sea to show how ugly refugges were until the truth came out
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 07:30 AM
77
This is an extremely poorly-written article. Pranay Sharma, the journalist, is, at best, inaccurate and at worst, inflammatory. For instance, Sharma cites three specific incidents to “illustrate vividly the danger Indians in Melbourne face daily.” This is an article focused on the allegedly “racist” attacks experienced by Indians here, yet “race” (as the term is commonly understood), can only be included as a factor in the attack on Kanan Bhargawa at Sunshine station, as he was subjected to “racial expletives” in what appears to be an opportunistic attack The two other incidents do not actually involve race. Xenophobia is clearly present, but race? No.
Additionally, Sharma also claims that Victoria is “crime-prone” (on what basis? I mean, compared to other states/provinces around the world, surely Victoria would rate quite well?) and uses spokesmen from the Australia First and One Nation parties - tiny, right-wing fringe parties, neither of which has a seat in Australia’s 226-member bicameral parliament - to provide comments from the “white Australia” perspective (along with a filmmaker). I could go on…
But don’t get me wrong. Foreigners (whether Indian, Pakistani, British or from any country) being attacked/abused in Australia is unacceptable and “race” remains an issue here. The question is whether these attacks are racially motivated.
Despite my misgivings about this article, I’m aware that there are far greater examples of sensationalist, inaccurate reporting (both in India and Australia) about this issue. I wonder if any of these journalists (and their respective editors) consider the irony of this type of reporting. Just see some of the bigoted, prejudiced, ill-informed comments from both Australians and Indians. I suspect that at least some of the attacks on Indians here have stemmed, at least in part, from the sensationalist media coverage.
Stephen Alexander
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:29 AM
76
@Elan (comment 67), I do not think you are making any sense. In history of each country, you will find issues of racisim and many other negetive points in someway or another. If you are trying to help the caues of supporting Indins, you are not doing any favour here. We need to stop playing by the media and see realities.

You are not in Australia and I do not think you know many facts either starting with the population figure of Australia, which is over 21 Million. On what basis you say that 90% of Sydney is 'owned' by Indians and Chinese? What a funny statement to make!

Anyway they key point is we need to stop jumping on judging and generalising in the way we are doing here. This is true for both Indians and Australians. Neither know the other country and its people that well to start judging.

Let us stay out of this and let governments handle this.

As I mentioned earlier (see my comment number 39) , media is trying to sell and we are buying it without thinking twice....
Tejas Oza
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:28 AM
75
@Elan (comment 67), I do not think you are making any sense. In history of each country, you will find issues of racisim and many other negetive points in someway or another. If you are trying to help the caues of supporting Indins, you are not doing any favour here. We need to stop playing by the media and see realities.

You are not in Australia and I do not think you know many facts either starting with the population figure of Australia, which is over 21 Million. On what basis you say that 90% of Sydney is 'owned' by Indians and Chinese? What a funny statement to make!

Anyway they key point is we need to stop jumping on judging and generalising in the way we are doing here. This is true for both Indians and Australians. Neither know the other country and its people that well to start judging.

Let us stay out of this and let governments hande this.

As I mentioned earlier (see my comment number 39) , media is trying to sell and we are buying it without thinking twice....
Tejas Oza
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:26 AM
74
Hey nathan jarman, people who do not respect the laws of the land should headback and that surely includes white australisn who raped Australia without showing any respect to the existing laws and cultures. U ripped it apart and set up ur own rulesa nd u want others to go back. That will nto work anymore. The genocide against aboroginals have to be taught in world history across the world. indians will campaign for it. no doubt. it was a genocide, much worse than what Jews went through. With due respect to jews, i have to say that. At least the jws managed to document the atrocities against them. The aboroginals have nothing left behind. My logic is only this nathan. if u cannot respect the law of the land, please go back. No matter how many generations u've been here, we won't miss you here. We are actually full of racists and we want to deweed australia of this venom. and btw, if u give me the logic of generations, i can give u the logic of moving plates. If you look at aboroginal way of life, they have more in common with tribes in south india. So historically we belong here. Indians coming to Australia will be rewritten to a Home Comign Policy and Brits ae the real immigrants. they are the ethnics. Not Indians. This is home for us. We belong here. We are full and don't want racists here anymore.
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:26 AM
73
aussie get a mighty shock when after leaving their island they find that there are so so so many Indian in USA and UK and in Europe so when you hear thses weird aussie accents that Americans laugh at at Los Angeles airport or at UK airports when they arrive to work as nannies or bartenders and they find that hey most of American technology is also taken up by the chinese and Indians and almost everything in UK belongs to Indians Aussies get mighty frightened so they hit on Indian websites to try to salvage what every little shit they have got left for themselves
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 07:21 AM
72
TO PRATYUSH

do not worry about Dave that is typical racist aussie response they will tell you first you do not know english then that you misspell etc and finally that you are black Dave himself is asshole school leaver ask Dave why he is on an Indian site I know aussies like him I carry an autralian passport and kick Dave aussie asses at will Australia is now totally occupied by the Indians and Chinese so what does Dave do Dacve gets on a Indian site and tell Indians that they cannot spell english or that they are incoherent

i ma doctor most doctors in Australia are chinese or Indians Dave is a garbage collector
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 07:20 AM
71
I wouldn't worry about Elan. He spends all of his time on these sorts of boards giving radical although incoherent opinions.

Interestingly he lives in the US (or so he says), which has a better documented history of racism that most countries. If he uses examples of colonial times as proof that attacks on Indians today are racist, one only imagines that he refers to the US slave trade when someone issues him a parking ticket in the US.

Trawling the internet to provide examples of another countries misdeeds is hardly a mature way of dealing with this issue. If Elan disagrees then maybe we should ask him if he thinks the rape of a 9 year old Russian girl in Goa recently should should be taken as evidence that all Indians are racist rapists.
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:18 AM
70
D.B.

I obviously made enough impact for a dumbo aussie like you to refer to my post you talk typically like the descendant of convict and prostitutes thats your pedigree pedigree is for dogs but you are worse than that you are school leaving illiterate dole bludging ugly beach bum and you dont know who your slut mother fucked to have to here fortunately for her as with most aussie mothers she abandoned you and so you grew up to to a heavily tattoed drug addict with the sole purpose in life to beat up everyone that doesnt look like you your world is shrinking so ask yourself who cares whether you read others opinions
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 07:18 AM
69
@ Elan

Personal attacks and ad hominem arguments of all sorts are a weak way of getting your point across. The more external criticism of a liberal, pluralistic society by citizens of nations with appalling records on human rights, the rule of law, media freedom, economic inequality almost beyond understanding and a broken social welfare system makes criticism from those quarters irrelevant as you believe our arguments are.

Argue on the merits of the issues, not soap box musings without any real basis. A pot should not be calling the kettle black. Mirrors are reflective remember.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:18 AM
68
I love the way many Australian people claim to "know" India - at times, even better than Indians themselves!

To those who refer to the repressed dalits and lower caste people, yes the caste system is atrocious, but it had nothing to do with race! And it is not part of any religion - it is a social construction. As socio-economic barriers are being broken down, so is the caste system.

People are also justifying the stick they give to Indians based on India's treatment of foreigners. But people disregard the turbulent history that India has had at the hands of the British, Portuguese, and others. Given this, I'd say foreigners are treated very well in India, much better than some other countries such as South Korea.

At Dave, I do not understand what hate filled sentiments I have expressed, nor what is particularly poor worded about my earlier comment. I am a civil engineer, and I have seen how much money unskilled labourers earn in Australia. Many of them earn more than me - plasterers sometimes charge up to $20,000 for the plastering of a two storey house. I have seen the cementers throw beer bottles and then cover it up with cement. And that's when they turn up in the first place. When unskilled labourers can earn more than a qualified, experienced, (and if I say so myself) decent engineer, you can understand why many people would wish to migrate here.

Please note, that I am not claiming Australia as an overall racist country, but many of the comments here are disgusting. There is a huge shortage of jobs in Australia, hence encouraging Indians, Chinese, and other migrants to come here. To claim jobs will be "lost" by maintaining such immigration levels is absurd, especially when students are only allowed to work 20 hours a week legally! If I worked 20 hours a week at award wages, I would barely pay for my rent! The Australian government is playing a two faced game, allowing them to study here and yet, by the work restriction laws, forcing them in live in crappy conditions.
Pratyush
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 07:12 AM
67
D.B.

while you aussies are getting your racist asses kicked by everyone from americans to the english to the chinese logonto their media to listen to what they are saying am i really worried that you out of your pitiful population of 18 million may not read my opinion we are making the impacts where it matters also given that 90% of sydney is now owned by the chinese and indians suggest you find another country to got to
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 07:03 AM
66
To Elan, unfortunately your inability to write coherent english or use punctuation means I'm forced to ignore your comments. I hope you're not saying anything valuable or pertinent because I would have to miss out on it, although I doubt you do have anything of real value to say, because if you did, you'd have learned how to make yourself clearly understood by now.
D.B.
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:33 AM
65
While not condoned I believe the expectation from Indians in Australia and in India is that they receive a level of support and assistance above other persons in Australian society, including its own citizens. So to answer the question on your cover, because of your breathtaking hypocrisy. Thousands killed in mob violence linked to both race and religion. Where my Indian Dr friends don't go out in the sun because their skin might become a little darker and they might be confused for lower caste. Effigies burnt and lives threatened at the drop of a hat. You would be still practising suttee if the English didn't keep hanging you for it. If Indians are concerned about violence here and not satisfied with the response from police/government the solution is simple - stay in your paradise.
Angus
Parramatta, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:30 AM
64
THE United Nations special deleate on indigenous rights says the intervention into remote Aboriginal communities in the Northern Territory is clearly discriminatory, and that there is "entrenched" racism in Australia.

THE intervention into remote Aboriginal communities in the Northern Territory is clearly discriminatory, and that there is "entrenched" racism in Australia, the United Nations special delegate on indigenous rights says.

James Anaya didn't pull any punches after his two-week visit of the country.

He said the Rudd Government should reinstate the Racial Discrimination Act in the NT "right away" because the intervention was discriminatory.

"It undermines the right of indigenous peoples to control their own destinies, their right to self-determination," he said.

He also said the Stolen Generations should be paid compensation.
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 06:29 AM
63
5½ hours – a story from Brisbane

Delmae Barton aged 62, a prominent Indigenous Elder and an opera singer, lay for more than five hours on a bus stop seat near Griffith University's Nathan Campus in July 2006, unable to reach out for help after vomiting from a suspected stroke or diabetes attack.

For five and a half hours, commuters, students and bus drivers ignored her plight until two young Japanese men asked if she needed water and help.

Her friend and the director of the Gumurri Centre at the university Boni Robertson, says it is a disgrace that Auntie Delmae's plight was ignored by hundreds of commuters as buses came and went.

She said 'nobody would stop to help me. Is this all I'm worth?' She believes people thought she was a drunk or a drug addict, and that the colour of skin encouraged them to walk on by.

The then Premier Peter Beattie told parliament he was 'really disappointed' by the incident and apologised on behalf of Queenslanders.
A story from Townsville

Aborigines can no longer receive a fair trial in Townsville according to survey results to be released in July that show a majority of residents would be unable to expel racist attitudes in court. The survey was conducted to demonstrate the need for the Lex Wotton Palm Island Riots case to be moved from a scheduled hearing in Townsville to Brisbane to ensure a fair and just trial.

In the survey, commissioned by Sydney-based law firm, Levitt Robinson, over half of Townsville residents claimed they could not disregard negative beliefs held about Aborigines, even if instructed by a judge in a courtroom setting.

These results bring to light a segregated city rife with racist views with only one in ten Townsville residents having a positive attitude towards Aboriginal people in the community.

Ignorance seemed to be a major factor with only one in four people correctly attributing the cause of the Palm Island Riots to a death in custody.
A story from Sydney

In April 2008, a world-renowned Aboriginal composer, buzzing after a standing ovation at the Sydney Opera House, was turned away from half-empty Kings Cross haunt Hugo's. He and his friend were told, "You can't expect us to just let anyone in."

William Barton, a son of Delmae Barton, who has been to some of the world's top bars over his acclaimed career, was told the venue was "at capacity" as he tried to get it at 9.30pm on a Sunday to celebrate a friend's birthday. His friend immediately fronted Hugo's door staff - and was rudely told: "You can't expect us to just let anyone in."
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 06:28 AM
62
I have lived in the west for the past 30 years. There is some truth in these reports. However, there are two facets to this problem-
1. The attitude of Australians towards Indians
2. The naivety of the Indian students

Generally speaking, on the surface, people are polite. However, the institutional and inherent racism exists deeply. for example- I consider myself reasonably well integrated in the society. When we arrived at the Sydney Airport, the customs person snatched the bag from my hand and stared at me with anger. On other occasions, salespeople ignore when asked for assistance. There are many such incidents that also go unrecorded. My brother was declined service in Armed forces because he was Indian. When he requested for details, they offerred employment but did not reveal the reason for earlier decline. There are many such experiences and some of them trivial to print.
The second aspect of this issue is that many Indians who are arriving into Australia are simply naive. They live in poorer neighbourhoods, work at cheap joints (at odd hours)and don't have the finesse to get out of difficult situations. They are easy prey to bad social elements in Australian society. It may be better if the Indian government ask all Indians travelling abroad to take a mandatory course to familiarise themselves of the new environment.
Viren Aggarwal
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:28 AM
61
Racism in Australia
Australia has a long history of racism dating back to the founding of the first colony in Sydney Cove. The establishment of the British colony in 1788 was justified by a racist ideology later expressed by the 'Terra Nullius' concept, in which the colonists believed they had first rights to the land over other groups. Racism is closely tied to nationalism, and the use of immigrants as scapegoats during lean economic times.
Lambing Flat massacre

Australia's experience with the Chinese on the goldfields probably established the pattern of discriminatory practice towards Chinese in particular and Asians in general. Early Asian immigrants in Australia generally took jobs unwanted by Europeans such as railway workers, shepherds on new land, fruit pickers and clearing bushland. By the early 19th century, with 24,000 Chinese immigrants in Australia there was a perception about Australia being 'overrun'. More particularly, Chinese miners were a perceived threat to the Australian economy. The discovery of gold in Australia and a subsequent Gold Rush saw a boom of Asian immigrants against extreme difficulties posed by white settlers such as the Poll Taxes of ten pounds in Victorian ports and widespread anti-Chinese violence.

In 1857, just before the outbreak of a major anti-Chinese riot on Victoria's Buckland River goldfield, Henry Parkes, best known as the 'Father of Federation' and owner of the Empire newspaper, railed against the 'unnatural vices and practices' that supposedly prevailed in China. In June 1861, just before another anti-Chinese riot at the Lambing Flat goldfield (near Young, in New South Wales), the Empire warned that:
‘ ... there is a good deal of the animal about the Chinaman ... the white population is becoming demoralised by the presence of hordes of idolatrist barbarians, destitute of religion and morality, as well as every social virtue which makes us proud of our Anglo-Saxon race and institutions.[1] ’

The bloody riots at Lambing Flat in the 1860s were an indication of the depth of feeling aroused. The miners had accused the Chinese diggers of 'stealing' their gold and taking their land. The massacre marked the beginning of institutionalised anti-Asian racism in Australia. The Lambing Flat massacre (or Lambing Flat riots), were a series of violent anti-Chinese demonstrations that took place in the Burrangong region, in New South Wales, Australia. They occurred on the goldfields at Spring Creek, Stoney Creek, Back Creek, Wombat, Blackguard Gully, Tipperary Gully, and Lambing Flat, between 1860 - 1861. Many unarmed Chinese miners were beaten to death or chased off the goldfield, with their possession looted by the mobs and their houses set on fire. Later in 1861, the Chinese Immigration Regulation Act passed the New South Wales Parliament, which prohibited the naturalisation of Chinese citizens in the state.

During the same period, Tasmania had seen Chinese workers in the North-East where they displaced Europeans on the tin fields. When numbers had reached 1000 in 1880, a public meeting was called to oppose them. The Bulletin weekly magazine came to the forefront of expressing racist sentiments of the time by proudly proclaiming on the front cover masthead: 'Australia for the White Man'. In 1887, after praising the Australians as egalitarians emancipated from the tyrannies of the Old World, it declared:
‘ All white men who come to these shores - with a clean record - and who leave behind them the memory of class distinctions and the religious differences of the old world… are Australians… No african, no Chinaman, no lascar, no Kanaka, no purveyor of cheap, coloured labour is an Australian.[2]

The bloody riots at Lambing Flat in the 1860s were an indication of the depth of feeling aroused. The miners had accused the Chinese diggers of 'stealing' their gold and taking their land. The massacre marked the beginning of institutionalised anti-Asian racism in Australia. The Lambing Flat massacre (or Lambing Flat riots), were a series of violent anti-Chinese demonstrations that took place in the Burrangong region, in New South Wales, Australia. They occurred on the goldfields at Spring Creek, Stoney Creek, Back Creek, Wombat, Blackguard Gully, Tipperary Gully, and Lambing Flat, between 1860 - 1861. Many unarmed Chinese miners were beaten to death or chased off the goldfield, with their possession looted by the mobs and their houses set on fire. Later in 1861, the Chinese Immigration Regulation Act passed the New South Wales Parliament, which prohibited the naturalisation of Chinese citizens in the state.

During the same period, Tasmania had seen Chinese workers in the North-East where they displaced Europeans on the tin fields. When numbers had reached 1000 in 1880, a public meeting was called to oppose them. The Bulletin weekly magazine came to the forefront of expressing racist sentiments of the time by proudly proclaiming on the front cover masthead: 'Australia for the White Man'. In 1887, after praising the Australians as egalitarians emancipated from the tyrannies of the Old World, it declared:
‘ All white men who come to these shores - with a clean record - and who leave behind them the memory of class distinctions and the religious differences of the old world… are Australians… No african, no Chinaman, no lascar, no Kanaka, no purveyor of cheap, coloured labour is an Australian.
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 06:27 AM
60
one should read about the constant assault on indians in australia they recently also drew criticsim for a black face comedy skit on hey hey its saturday telivision show australia was a white only country until the 1970 i lived in australia a long time i would say australia is one of the most racist countries in the whole world ofcourse australia was settled by uprooting its aboriginal population then the australians took away aboriginal children to make them more like them the australian goct recent apoligised to the aboriginal people only last year for atrocities committed for hundreds of years until the 1990 it would be impossible to find an african american person in australia only recently australia allowed some somali refugees but there have been complains of treating them very badly australia had asian chinese laborers coming to work in the australian gold mines and farms they also owned farms just before the world war reports suggest soem chinese also fought for the australian army after the war the chinese were sent back to china and their lands taken away from them it was only after the white only policy was lifted that they were allowed to come back seom 40 years later if with the white only policy australia preferred southern european whites like italians and greeks prior to that even italians and greeks were not allowed settling in australia italians and greeks had a hard time settling in australia that was followed by australian reluctance to allowed asian immigrants chinese filipinos indonesians etc indian immigration followed and now the chinese and indian communities are fairly big ther are some 100,000 indians students that study in australia annually and the indian community locally is also big but recently indian students have been attacked repeated with 1or more averaging a month many of them beign fatal while the australian police has termed soem of these attacks as oppoortunistic but have refrained from terming them racist even though in some of them explicit racist overtones existed in the attacks like indian australians repeatedly stabbed and being told to go home the indian community now lives very cautiously in australia the australian police is faily lax generally speaking and they have not being able to either stop these attacks or investigate and prosecute the culprits indian bashing in australia and takign away their iphones and blackberry and laptops has become a game for many criminals in australia recently a chinese researcher was fatally attacked while walkign home from university campus attackers mistook him to be an indian in the dark and told the court later that that night they wanted to attack an indian to get his ipod the ex president of a state medical association in australia an indian from uk from atatcked so severly while strolling in the park that he suffered a massive brain damage and apparently had to learn such basic things as speech one read timesofindia.com and the age.com.au to understand the current australian situation
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 06:27 AM
59
Overall the article does bring out several points about why Indian students seem to be more under attack than other indians or even other students. The headline is very mis-leading though and only serves to add fuel to the anger and hate that the average Indian has developed for Australia. Very disappointing Outlook, very disappointing.

I am not a "rich" indian and dont live in a posh suburb in Melbourne (yes, Outlook, there can be suburbs that dont house the dregs of society or the uber rich). I am offended by the fact that you group indians in australia as either poor students or rich migrants. There is a strong group of hardworking, professional indians who are quite happy living in this country and appreciate all that it has to offer. I haven't been subjected to any racist attack but that does not mean I dont think there are racist elements in australia.
Your article talks about the more liberal australians and mentions that the One nation party etc are not popular, but I dont think you stress that enough. And in not doing so, you continue to feed the myth that 'white' australians dont like indians.
Your article also only focuses on young white kids as the perpetrators of these assaults. Which again is only half the truth, as a lot of the violence that Melbourne sees is caused by asian, african gangs (sydney I believe has the lebanese who cause problems).

All this media coverage and the hateful comments over the last couple of months from both sides just makes me think that some people will continue to believe what they want to, irrespective of the facts
Sumera
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:27 AM
58
"Alright all white Australians. It's time to behave or leave Australia. Go back to your homeland. There's no excuse."...Actually,for most white Australians,Australia is their homeland. Most white Australians have had their family living here for the last 150 years,and have never been to their ancestors lands of Britain and Ireland. By your logic every person of Indian descent who lives in USA,Canada,Britain,Malaysia,Singapore,Fiji,the West Indies,Kenya,Tanzania and South Africa should be heading home to the "Motherland".
nathan jarman
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 06:26 AM
57
for Australians everyone around them is a fake and everything around them is a myth that is anything that is not Australian according to them the author of the article has no clue about Gandhi liberated a nation of one billion against violence what does the author suggests that all Indians in Australia subject them selves to the violence against them by Australians to compare a self defeating Australian attitude like tall poppy syndrome with Gandhi transigence against his violent colonial rulers is taking the empty and vacuous Australian culture or the lack thereof too far it is just plain silly to do that comparison it does not look like the Australians get it assaulting others that look unaustralian will only get you so far read the newspaper from uk to the middle east to Asia to asses the damage to Australian reputation internationally looks like lanmandragon does not get it above all Gandhi was uk educated barrister who went to south Africa to practice law was far more literate than his English peers and that is the key Indians are in Australia do as they have done elsewhere focus their energies now literacy and education and further their professions like they have done in silicon valley in usa or in uk where majority of doctors and infact the richest person in uk is Indian or in Canada where British columbia recently boasted its first Indian origin premier or in Australia where the Australian ambassador to India is Indian and along the way if a few obstacles come in the form of assaults and being victimized that is only to be expected and really so what Australians are good only at being envious of other people success Australians lack the tenacity to undertake hardship to struggle and put themselves outside of their comfort zones to educate themselves either professionally or more importantly outside of their narrow minded antiquated views on culture and race when Australians travel one usually finds them working in a pub in uk or as nannies and closeted in their own Australian habits and tantrum unwilling to expose themselves to new environments even if it means that is a western English environment like the uk or usa Australians have a habit of irritating their hosts even in those countries which they claim to have the same culture as theirs indeed the Australian accent is laughed at and derided at uk and usa pubs or perhaps compliments by patron occasionally for some drunken jolly good times Australians though are completely oblivious of what image they portray and how they are perceived because a true Australian trait is a complete lack of introspection and self improvement Australians believe what they want to believe Australians read what they want to read Australians hear what they want to hear unfortunately for Australians the world has a different view
elan
san jose, United States
Feb 01, 2010 06:20 AM
56
Wonka in HK:

"One other thing I'd like to add - if India is so concerned about its citizens beeing treated fairly & equally overseas then why does your government (at all levels) officially seem to think its OK to charge visting guests considerably higher prices."

That might be because foreign tourists have more disposable income and to allow all citizens of India, who are the owners and inheritors of the cultures that prededed, we pay a relatively small amount to see an amazing work of architectural brilliance.

See how much you have to pay to see Avatar 3D in contrast to an ancient monument that needs foreign money to help keep their treasures open to all and maintain them well for your photo op in front of the gleaming mausoleum.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:53 AM
55
"The Australian government should stop issuing student visas for irrelevant courses like hair styling , nail manicuring and cookery. Another good idea is to prevent shoddy colleges offering such courses from admitting students."...The current government is in the process of doing that now. But you know what will happen when that occurs?.. Indians will cry "racism" because they are no longer allowed to "study" cookery or hairdressing in Australia. We should also point out that it's not just Indians doing these bogus student courses. We have people from all over south east asia and even Brazil doing them nowadays. The difference between them and the Indians is they come here with far more money and don't live in the worst areas doing the worst jobs. And as for Prahran..the only dangerous places there are near the nightclubs where you have thousands of people drinking and taking drugs.
nathan jarman
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:48 AM
54
Lots of interesting & valid comments here.

One other thing I'd like to add - if India is so concerned about its citizens beeing treated fairly & equally overseas then why does your government (at all levels) officially seem to think its OK to charge visting guests considerably higher prices.

Of course an Indian will pay, what 10-100 rupees to vistit the Taj Mahal - but I must pay well over 7 times that amount - approx US$35.

I think issues of inequality ... and lack of respect ... are far greater in India. And ultimately Racism is cancerously inherent amongst your own people. I'd love to see India open up as a Multi-cultural society & operate free of problems - absolutely not!!!!

And what about the Caste system ... although officially outlawed it still has an enormous presence in everyday life. Isn't religion a clever & powerful way of keeping the downtrodden eternally downtrodden.

As I wrote earlier I think if you polled ALL Indians living in Australia where they would rather be I'm sure you'll find most would rather stay down under.

I've spent a reasonable time in India on 3 occasions over the last 15 years and lived in Mainland China for 7 years. I hate to say it .. but China's rapid development over the last 25 years (economically & socially) only highlights India's enormous failures.

Honestly India there are far greater problems of Violence, inequality, and predjudice in your own backyard that you need to sort out!!
Wonka Hundsheisen
Hong Kong, Hong Kong
Feb 01, 2010 05:44 AM
53
Also for a last piece of perspective. Considering the hysteria in the Indian media towards Australia, is there the same level of anger towards the overt discrimination that people of Indian ancestry receive/received in such places as Fiji, South Africa, Uganda, Malaysia etc where one ethnicity was jealous of Indian ingenuity and hard work and LEGISLATED and openly victimized those who had lived in such countries for over a century.

Makes you wonder whether this is a massive media splurge of populism, chauvinism and ignorance? Is some of this anger also derived from, and driven by,Indian nationalism rising and India wishing to assert its power?
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:38 AM
52
I just had a thought as I'm sitting at my desk. I went to school and Uni with Australians whose families migrated from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka etc and never noticed any racism directed towards them.

Many doctors, lawyers, business people, academics and so forth are of subcontinental descent or background.

As Victoria Police doesnt', I believe, keep records of the ethnicity of victims of crime, what proportion of Indians who migrated to Australia as a family or skilled migrant get assaulted or robbed?

I ask this as Indian Australians of a higher socio-economic level and familiarity with Australia don't seem to be the target of racist attacks. Considering racists are mostly ill-educated and ill-informed wouldn't they attack people who look "Indian"?

There was a case where the head of the Australian Medical Association (A Dr. of Indian extraction) was viciously attacked and robbed. No race related connection as concluded by the victim, courts and police.

Apart from this instance, wouldn't it lead some to speculate that the attacks occur routinely against vulnerable people. Students walking alone, to work, taxi drivers etc.

If there was a racist intent I would expect to see Indians from all socioeconomic backgrounds being represented. This is not the case. The vast majority as those who live in much less affluent areas and are subject to the same dangers all people face living in a deprived area.

Im sure there's quite a few suburbs of Mumbai, Dehli or other large cities in India that are 'no go zones" for those who look more affluent and prone to opportunistic robbery and violence.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:36 AM
51
D.B Sydney well I don't know anything about Indians breaking the rules, or working illegally. But being a taxi driver in Melbourne is a very dangerous job. A survey done by WorkCover in 1996 showed that 40% of taxi had been victim of assault at least once while doing their jobs. If they are over represented in jobs like taxi driver, as well as security guards and nightshift store keepers, then it would be no surprise at all if they are also over represented in assault stats.
Flavian Hardcastle
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:30 AM
50
David Brown,

>> whether there is a difference between thievery or racism is beside the point

True, for the victim it makes no difference. There is always a problem in condemning a whole people for the malfeasance of a few. Many things are being said in the heat of the moment which will be forgotten by the time of the next test match.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Feb 01, 2010 05:20 AM
49
In response to Flavian Hardcastle, comment 47 (love you name, by the way!), the article here alludes to, but doesn't dare confront the whole truth of why Indian students are over-represented in robbery statistics. Their habit of carrying their money around with them and not using banks is because so many of them are breaking the law and working far beyond the hours that international students are allowed to work. Unfortunately, knowing India very well myself, Indians commonly have no interest in following the laws, whether they are at home or abroad, and Indian students have made themselves targets of robbery in Australia because of this. Fortunately, the appalling situation of Indian students illegally driving taxis in Australia's large cities may be eventually dealt with as the public outcry is getting to be very loud about the shocking and dangerous driving, poor car and driver cleanliness, and drivers not knowing their way to the easiest and most well known destinations. Unfortunately Australian laws were originally written with an assumption that most people would follow the rules, never anticipating the government would flood the country with people who aren't interested in laws or rules at all.
D.B.
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:14 AM
48
So many views on this subject, some so well presented, and some not so balanced. All in all, a fair write up except the headline.
My experience is as an ethnic Indian having migrated, over 10 years ago and settled in Melbourne. I keep hearing about Australia being racist - the notion being that the whole country is racist? Can anybody point me to one single piece of legislation or policy that is even remotely racist in modern Australia. Sure there are a few misguided souls around here, but nothing even close to say - the legislation in Maharashstra concering son of soil policy.
I have encountered reacist behaviour in my 20 odd years of working life. But I have to say that about 90% of that was in India, where discrimination against my ethnicity, language, caste etc was prolific.
We make it a point to visit India every 18-24 months. But the feeling of stepping back into Melbourne is one truly of coming back home. Home where my aged chinese neighbour keeps her best garden grown tomatoes and zucchinis for us,where my Mauritian neighbours will often look after our kids they way their grandparents would have,where my colleagues regardless of colour will put in a day of back breaking work, im my lost cause garden, for no more reward than chilled beer and companionship.
Do not tell me that Australia is racist - I know much better and am willing to show you too, if you will listen.
Skyfish
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:11 AM
47
Ok, some of your statistics are bit misleading.

For instance:

"130 Indians attacked countrywide, the Indian high commission says. Of these, 30 were students."

You haven't really proved any baseline for comparison here. But actually, according to nationmaster, there are about 141, 000 asaults in Australia per year. That's about 370 assaults per day.

http://www.nationmas...-assaults-per-capita

Indians represennting about 1.5% of the population in Australia, they should be subject to about 1.5% of daily assaults, or a bout 5-6 per day.

Ergo, 100 in a year is not a very high number of assaults at all. That should be how many Indians are assaulted in the three weeks, all things being equal.

"1,447 incidents of crime against Indians in 2007-08 have been reported in Victoria alone. The state is crime-prone, and has a force of 13,000, including volunteers, to police a population of four million."

I think that's actually a misquote. That stat was reported, origininally, by the Victorian police. They used the term "violent crime", and it was against "people of Indian descent". It's a bit puzzling as to how they obtained this stat, as Victorian police don't log the ethnicity of crime victims. At any rate, the Vic police recently clarified that anyway, saying that Indians aren't over represented in assault, but they are over represented in robberies.

http://www.abc.net.a...10/01/20/2797173.htm

However, I do commend the author for at least conceding the possibility that an attack against an Indian might not be racially motivated. This is a real quantum leap in the reporting of this issue by the Indian media.
Flavian Hardcastle
Adelaide, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:09 AM
46
Alright all white Australians. It's time to behave or leave Australia. Go back to your homeland. There's no excuse. If you want to live in Australia, you will have to adhere to demoratic values. We will not tolerate your racist attitudes anymore. The union Jack will shed soon. We;ve seen how you have treated the Aborogninals and managed to wipe out cultures from Australia. This will not happen anymore.We will defend this country to our last breath. We will drive back forces of demons back to where they came from. Look at them still shamelessly plundering away australian wealth through minning and converting the entire land of tasmani into paper pulp. Devils, they are devils tryingto plunder Australia, rape this beautiful land to the last branch. No Brumby, No Rudd. We had enough of these skin heads. We will not tolerate racism in this land. If you want to be a skjin head, your home is in the UK. We are full, so FO! BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sasha
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:07 AM
45
COLONEL of BRIGHTON BEACH: Your below post has merely evidenced the fact that Australia is a racist nation. Firstly I will point out that this article addresses RACISM dowry murders are not racially motivated and therefore irrelevant. Secondly I will note that per head of population Australia has a much higher murder rate than India so again your comments are a waste of space (as i suspect you are). The fact that you immediately resort to claiming 'they steal our jobs' proves everything said within the article.
rea
Brisbane, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 05:03 AM
44
A fact left out of your article that really shows how bad your media is. Three of the people arrested over these attacks. INIAN NATIONALS. So now we see it racist attacks in Australia by Indian Nationals are Australians being racist.
http://www.smh.com.a...e-20100131-n6n4.html
Scott Grundy
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:59 AM
43
Kingsley, comment 11...you say you teach at a university and yet you show disgustingly poor grammar and even worse critical thinking. Perhaps this is a part of the problem. Australia has geared up to make education, particularly fraudulent education as a back door entry to permanent residency, a huge industry that has destroyed true education in the country. Classrooms filled to the brink with non-english-speaking students who manage to pass in a course that is taught and examined entirely in english has to be a clue that education in Australia is a fraud perpetrated on all students, whether foreign or not.

Australians are rightly angry that the government is allowing, literally, millions of people in under its insane immigration laws and educational back-dooring. Indians would be just as angry if tens and hundreds of millions of foreigners were arriving in India every year and taking jobs and undermining the culture...in fact, as I recall, India has already SHOWN that it gets very angry about those sorts of things, but I never see articles calling Gandhi a racist.

Indian students should stay away from Australia if they are interested in education. India has a perfectly good education system, and I would think it now far superior to the excuse for education they would receive in Australia. Indian students looking for advanced education also have to understand they have no "right" to an education in Australia. If they don't like the conditions in Australia, then they have a right to seek education anywhere they like. Australia is under no obligation to them, nor they to it. The only reason any student in India is going to be upset is because they see the cooking school road to Australian residency becoming more difficult. Be aware, that is changing anyway. Australia no longer will guarantee you permanent residency once your cooking school graduates you, and with more pressure, it is most likely that in the near future foreign students will be required to leave the country upon completing their studies, which is as it should be.
D.B.
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:58 AM
42
I came to this web site from a link on the Melbourne Age news web site. I am a person of Indian origin and once lived in Australia before immigrating to the US. It is indeed sad to be following the non stop reports of violence against people of Indian origin in Australia. When I lived in Australia, I was close friends with many wonderful Australians of Anglo Celtic heritage. They were very nice people. I also came across the riff-raffs on the streets, generally white Australians with low education, blue collar jobs, who in some cases held 1970s White Australia views and would not hesitate to yell out profanities at any non-white. Having lived in the US for a decade now, I find some fundamental differences in the life experiences of Indians in Australia and the US. Australia is a mono culture of the Anglo Saxons heritage, and they traditionally see themselves as the only rightful "Australians" and everyone else as Chinese or Greeks or Arabs etc. There is a high tolerance of violence in Australia and the judges are very liberal, appointed for life, and have more sympathy for the criminal than for the victims. Punishments are very mild and there is thus no deterrence for violent crime. The police is an all white force, are very few in numbers, and generally are ineffective. With the result that the streets in many parts of Melbourne's suburbs are a no-go zone in the night. Western Suburbs which have the lowest educational levels were always a problem. Prahran is a mix of low income apartment dwellers as well as richer people in big houses especially on the Yarra river side. There is definitely a glass ceiling for non Anglos in Australia. The white-Australia policy was removed by executive order and there never was a referendum or public discussion on it and a section of the Australian white population never accepted the removal of the policy. Politicians have also traditionally played the race card and John Howard and Pauline Hanson are two prominent politicians in that regard. What is the way forward? I think Indians need to stay away from Australia. There are more opportunities for young Indians in India today due to Infosys, Tata motors, Wipro, Reliance etc. India will be the 3rd largest economy in the world by 2040 (China the largest by 2019). This is the Asian century and the shoes will soon be on the other foot. Simply aping the west is not an option for Indians. Australia too instead of linking its economy with the fastest growing economies in the world is going the insular Japanese way that will have long term consequences. It will be a lost opportunity due to the short sightedness of the political leaders.
Ram
Minneapolis, United States
Feb 01, 2010 04:57 AM
41
Coming from Australia and having studied cookery myself at a local college I met a lot of Indian overseas students. One thing I noticed was, they, like me, already had tertiary qualifications, were middle class and conscientious.

Some Australians do exhibit racist tendencies when new influx of migrants arrive, like my family experienced arriving in the 1950's. It was usually innocuous and devoid of violence towards migrants.

It would be useful to note that quite a few of these attacks have been perpetrated by children of migrants themselves: Lebanese, Sudanese, Greek, Italian etc. A number of aborigines have even been arrested over the robbery/attacks.

It's erroneous to think this is simply white people attacking dark skinned foreigners. It's a more complicated issue of identity, economics, employment opportunities and geography.

I know that sounds vague but the fact is, there have been racist attacks, but to typify it as a broad social trend or a majority sentiment is ludicrous and hysterical.

Interesting to be on the receiving end of spurious reporting, selective quoting and a general hatchet job of an article.

It's usually the western media misapprehending the situation in developing nations, not vice-versa. Something to think about for all sides of impartial journalistic integrity.
David
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:53 AM
40
The attacks on Indians in Melbourne are a national disgrace. That people have died is indefensible.

The Indian government has shown incredible restraint. The Australian and Victorian governments have downplayed the problem. They may well not want to stir up the racist streak that still runs through this country. However behind the scenes the Australian and Victorian governments seem to have been very concerned. The police file prepared by Victoria Police shows swift action to apprehend most offenders.

We need more information on what exactly is the problem. Are Indians really the focus? Or are they targets of convenience for offenders with many other problems on their minds?

In the meantime some tougher government statements that violence will not be tolerated and some agile police presence in problem areas are needed.

I read Outlook whenever I am in India and rarely see anything about Australia. It grieves me that we appear in your pages this way. There is a more positive side to the place.

When these tragic attacks stop you may want to do another story on the Indians who are quietly making their way in so many places in Australia and who are, just as previous waves of immigrants have done, redefining this country for the better.
RFI Smith
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:47 AM
39
Funny is the word! @Colonel(comment 35), the way you are using words shows your class. Most other educated Australians who have commented here, have shown that they do know how to communicate, You clearly do not. You do not even understand the migration system of Australia either. Similarly, @Pratyush (comment 11) has shows his class. Absolutely dirty worded post by him.

I am an Indian Australian, who studied in Melbourne in 1998-99 and now live in Sydney. I think the whole issue has been blown out of proportion by the Indian Media (this article still is more balanced then most others while the cover is surely of 'cheap press' type).

Seating in India and looking at media reports there, people will not know what the real situation on the ground here is.

Fact is - in day-to-day life, there is absolutely no element of racism that I can see. Indian people are everywhere. In good jobs, senior positions, in businesses even in local governments. They are doing well in some sports locally and doing exceptionally well in schools.

There have been issues in Melbourne. Baring some incidents, most others are related to Criminal activities rather then racism.

Yes some racisim related incidents have been there in Melbourne. There will be a few people who may have some issue against Indians or other non 'westeners'. But it would be absolutely irresponsible to generalise that for the whole of Australia or all Australians or to see the country as a racist country. Generally speaking, Most Australians are friendly and peace loving people. Yes True. I have been helped by Aussi friends so many times when needed and there have been many Australian friends who asked for help from me as well on occasions.

Out of proportion media coverage (where they do not really understand the realities), will in fact make all of us Indians look bad who are in Australia or in general. It will only detoriate the situation. We need to let the governments handle the affairs rather then people getting involved in protests etc.

I am a proud Indian. But I can see that Indian media/publications have been generally biased and half cooked in reporting. They are trying to sell their stuff. Unfortunately, we are buying it without thinking twice.
Tejas Oza
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:44 AM
38
This would have to be the most fair and balanced article I have read regarding racism in Australia. Unfortunately it does not touch on the less obvious forms of racism and abuse suffered by any NON WHITE nationality that enters our land. Australia IS a racist nation one need only review our governments past AND current treatment of our own aboriginal populations compared to that of our 'white' population to know that racism is so well ingrained into the Australian psyche that we ourselves rarely recognize what is blatantly obvious to the rest of the world!
rea
Brisbane, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:36 AM
37
"They smell bad" - Do you think that's good enough reason to kill them. If each of them wore deo/perfumes they would not be racially targeted? Sure?
For others well there's a different in perception as "racism" is not as black and white as dead or alive. What is humor for some is racism for others. I believe that Australia needs to take in most "compatible" students and need to educate the Aussies that how they gonna help build the country.
I for one can boast to have attracted employment for 5 Aussies from an American company that would have otherwise gone to Malaysia. Believe me educated Indians are much better than those bogans Centerlink supports.
SammyB
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:30 AM
36
Until recently my perceptions of Indians and India have been shaped by positives - it’s democratic values, Buddhism, Gandhi etc. My doctor is an Indian immigrant and I have the highest respect for him. I known a few Australians of Indian background socially, and to tell the truth I don’t even think of them as Indian. I’m a bit of a military history buff, and in the Indian/Pakistan conflicts I’ve always seen the Indian side as being more balanced and less chauvinistically driven. These positive view were somewhat dented by the racism directed to Andrew Symonds by Indian crowds, but overall it was maintained.

The latest campaign of misinformation directed against Australia by Indian media (including this article) and politicians however has made me realise that those overall positive views were unrealistic. It would seem that India’s democracy and public opinion is based on a large majority of easily swayed and largely ignorant people, and that the politicians and media are well aware of this and use it for their own purposes.

Thanks for the wake-up call – I’ve taken off my rose-coloured glasses regarding India.
Alan
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:13 AM
35
Lets face facts folks. When it comes to racism no one holds a candle to the Indian caste system and what are dowry murders about that never get investigated- estimated at close to 10,000 females last year alone.
I would like to see what would happen if 100,000 Australians landed in Mumbai and started taking jobs of the locals . There would be riots at the blink of an eye , but dont worry ,there is more chance of being hit by Haley's comet than 100,000 Australians turning up on your doostep.
The reporting in this article is disgraceful and proves the point of any Australian who has ever visited India, that its full of liars , thieves and rip off merchants. Bottom line is that India is a shithole , run by shifty caste driven self righteous politicians who are looking to deflect from their own narrow based internalised racist attitudes. No wonder every Indian worth his salt is trying to get into Australia under the guise of doing some study. Lots of us are laughing here about your moaning and groaning , whislt our politicians pander to your complaints about racism. Stay in your shithole if you like. Iam sure its absolute paradise.
Colonel
brighton beach, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 04:01 AM
34
Pratyush (comment 11),

First you fall for an obvious and poorly worded troll. Then you reveal your own deep seated prejudice with comments such as

"even idiotic, unskilled, beer-swilling labourers can afford a two storey house and a Landcruise"

Ugly, hate-filled sentiments that reek of resentment of certain classes of people.
dave
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:51 AM
33
Articles like this are only going to make the problem of racism in Australia worse. I've grown up with Indian students in all levels of my education, and have many Indian famalies living in the same street as me. Racism didn't make any sence to me- these people were my friends and neighbours. If Miagrants stop coming to Melbourne and Australia, the culture of racism will thrive. Australia isn't known for having a multicultural past, but it is learning to overthrow that- shown by how most of our racist right wing parties are fringe groups. To combat Indian attacks the victorian government needs to police crime prone areas more, needs to educate the public on the values of multiculturism. It doesn't help that much of the Indian media is on a witch hunt, which will no doubt discourage more Indians coming to Australia.
J Jerome
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:43 AM
32
Australians don't hate Indians. The vast majority of us get along with Indians perfectly well. What we hate are hypocrits, like the writers of racist beat up stories.

Australians don't like being called racist when they're not, especially by people from probably the most bigoted and hateful place on earth. The politicians you reference are on the fringe of the fringe. We don't have religious riots here, we don't have 'untouchables', we've never had a religous/race based civil war. Before you start throwing mud at other people take a look at yourselves first.

If there is any anger towards Indians, it is to the 90% of foriegn students that are not here to learn and take their skills home, that are here to get a rubber stamp for permanent residency. These students cheat their way through the system and buy their qualifications. It is well documented that colleges are under pressure to pass foriegn students that would otherwise fail. I have witnessed this process first hand. I have seen people go into exams with cheat sheets which are ignored. I have been approached by students for tutoring but only want you to write their essays. I have seen students get credit for supposed qualifications when they're clearly not competent. I have worked with incompetent Indian graduates that should never have been passed; the list of cheating and corruption is endless. How do you expect Australians not to get upset about this?
utterbs
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:42 AM
31
It is not the case that 'australians hate' you. Its more that some australians hate anyone not like them. (these racists tend to be the ones nobody else wants to be like either). Sudenese migrants are experiencing this violence as well, while there was similar anti-asian acts in the 1970's and 1980's. Yet this is not the widely supported and racist 'white australia policy, thats is in the past.It seems to me that the situation in melbourne is a mixture of race-inpired assaults combined with the fact that many indian students are engaged in some of the more vulnerable occupations (cab drivers etc). The vast majority of australins are appaled by outright stupidity of these acts.

As for speaking more like australians - Why?.This view just blames the victim for their own assault. Should ausralian tourists talk more like indians when in india - just to avoid being assaulted? As a teacher at a university i would be hard pressed to say to an indian student what talking like an australian is? In most classes i teach their are australian citizens with accents from all over the world. Moreover its not like indians are from the moon, they speak and act pretty much like australians anyway.

Lastly, a few people have commented on people 'using' the student visa system as a way of migrating - so what? The idea that australia seduces some students to stay after they have completed their studies is a good thing.

But as for cookery classes! - the people with the best food on earth are being taught to cook by a nation where the national food is a meat pie - funny. A tip for future students, heat for 15 minutes serve with tomato sauce -- congratulations, graduation is tommorow.
kingsley
cairns, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:32 AM
30
@ Pratyush I am commenting solely because this article was referenced in the Australian press this morning. This is probably the first and last time that I would ever look at Outlook, and I will make the following comments. Firstly whilst the article inside the magazine was reasonably balanced, the front-page headline was typical of the “gutter press” and bore no relationship to the article. I'm sure it will sell a lot of Outlook magazines solely the basis of the cover.

This whole issue has been blown out of all proportion by a few sensation mongers seeking publicity. By and large Indians in this country are as safe as anybody else, but if you walk through parks at night, whether you are white or black, you place your self at risk in any city in the world. Australians are fairly tolerant having experienced waves of migrants from various countries in the world including Italy Greece,Somalia, Turkey Yugoslavia,Vietnam, Sri Lanka, India,Cambodia, and of course England Ireland and Scotland. Culturally most of this influx of different cultures has been advantageous,but we have also had to deal with a significant increase in knife related crime from some of these ethnic groups as well as group bashings none of which has been directed at Indians.

The antics of Mr. Rudd in his Klu Klux Klan is typical of a spoiled attention seeking brat overshadowed by his more famous uncle, and should in no way be seen as reflecting any significant entity in Australia. He was lucky that somebody didn't assault him for his outrageous presentation, but Australia is a very tolerant society in which fools are generally generally tolerated and allowed to make stupid statements without redress. Unfortunately featuring this lunatic in the Outlook article only adds to the presumption that this news magazine is an element of the gutter press seeking sensational headlines to sell content, and only presenting a more balanced view inside the document.
Greg Angelo
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:17 AM
29
Anwaar, whether there is a difference between thievery or racism is beside the point. The problem that we are seeing in the media now is that Indians are afraid to go out on the street in Australian cities because they might get attacked. Every travel book warns women not to travel alone, outside, in India. Which do you suppose is the bigger problem?

If I wrote a letter to the Indian Ambassador to Australia and complained in writing about the way Australians are treated by Indians in India, what do you suppose he would say? Do you suppose anything would be done that brought about change? Nope, didn't think so.

One might very well argue that the behaviour of Indians, in India, is indeed racist, because they do not target people of their own race and pay particular attention to those that are of a different race.
David Brown
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:16 AM
28
Yes, there is an element of racism in Australia. Yes, Indians are occasionally victims of violence. So are Italians, Russians, British, New Zealanders - and, overwhelmingly, Australians.

The truth is, the Indian media is doing exactly what the news media in every country does: beating up an angle to sell newspapers and magazines.

What's not being reported in India is the number of violent crimes in Australia perpetrated by Indian nationals, and the Indian government's reluctance to track down Indian criminals who return to their home country to escape the Australian justice system.

The question that's being ignored by the Indian media is, how can anyone possibly know the motives of criminals before they are caught? Do your 'journalists' (and thanks to the quality of their work I use the term loosely) have telepathic powers? If so, perhaps they could telepathically tell our police who the offenders are and save us all a lot of trouble?

As for India's denigration of Australian police and their failure to put every crime involving an Indian national at the very top of their priority list, I invite readers to examine the clean-up rate of India's corrupt police force before passing judgement on another country's.

Indians should not judge another race based on the inaccurate and sensationalist rantings of the media.
Rob
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:09 AM
27
I have just been reading the other comments and I notice that the most racist comment is by an Australian with and ITALIAN SURNAME - this supports my point that it is sometimes previous immigrants who are most oppossed to new immigants. I recall a racist graffiti comment in Sydney which said 'Asians Out' - but was written in Greek.
Peter John McGregor
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:05 AM
26
Two points that trouble me == Do the people of INDIA think that the peoples from the middle east as being WHITE = The concept that ALL the gangs running around bashing people are WHITE AUSSIES and every ethnic group sits back and says please don,t hit us is absurd == The truth is the vast majority of gangs are ARABS and ASIANS both of which love to carry knifes == The second point is WHY IN HELL would people come here to study == Decades ago INDIA passed the capabilities of AUSTRALIA= that place where they dig the biggest holes with the goal to become the largest area below sea level
martin
melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:05 AM
25
Melbourne has never really been a safe city like most around the globe. Your article refers to Prahran being away from the bad people - this is a big distortion of the truth.
Prahran is a full of poorer people from the Northern suburbs which are out for trouble from Friday to Sunday - going there is dangerous at night regardless of who or where your from!
Sunshine is a working class suburb which Prahran used to be however Sunshine is full of desperate heroin addicted junkies. That Indian man who walked through the park at night in Sunshine obviously had no idea how dangerous the area was with desperate drug affected people.
I don't have a problem with Indians as generally they are good people but they need to wake up to their new environment quickly. A safer suburb than Prahran or Sunshine to consider would be Burwood which also has Deakin University.
Anthony
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 03:00 AM
24
I am a 4th generation Anglo-Celtic Australian. My wife is American. We live in a part of Melbourne where there are many Indians. There are many Indians in our Catholic Parish and at the Catholic High School where my wife teaches the third largest ethnic group is Indian. An Indian family has moved into a house on our street. Many of the local taxi drivers are Indian. The local newsagent is now run by Indians, as are most of the Seven-Eleven stores and Petrol Stations. The nearby Univeristy is full of Indian students. There are Indians on the buses, trains and trams. We have recently become friends with a family where the wife is Anglo-Indian. To us, Indians are simply the latest wave of immigrants, after the Italians, Greeks, and other Europeans, Lebanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc. etc.

In every country there is always a part of the population who feel threatened by people who are different and they do not wish to welcome these people. They are a minority. They are sometimes to be found amongst previous immigrants who feel that their job prospects being threatened by the latest arrivals.

My wife and I like Indian people. We find that they are usually very polite, respectful and hard working people. As far as we are concerned, we welcome Indian people to Australia. They enrich our country.
Peter John McGregor
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 02:55 AM
23
This article is actually more balanced than most that have been printed in India. (Which doesn't say much) But let me make these points.

Under 'Bells Toll' how about some reference points?
- The Indian High Commission says that 130 Indians have been attacked. There are 176,000 recorded assaults in Australia EVERY YEAR. (FACT) That means that more than 99.9% of attacks in Australia are non-Indian and are not reported in the Indian media.
- There are 300 or so murders in Australia every year. Indians represent 1.5% of Australia's population. That alone suggests that it is normal to expect 5 or so murders of Indians per year and numerous assaults every day for the Indian demographic to be the same as the average.
- The murder rate in India is 2.4 times the murder rate per 100,000 of what it is in Australia. This is FACT. Of 3 murders of Indians this year, 2 have been carried out by Indians and the other was carried out in a suburb where (as this article describes) a sprinkling of Anglo Saxons live. Chances are that none of these murders were carried out by a white Australian.
- Those of any race that are in the 18-25 year old demographic are up to 4 times more likely to be assaulted regardless of race. This is a common statistic globally. If you are 18-25 and drive a taxi, what are your chances?

- Statistics are great, but the stats you show tell us nothing, except that there is violence in Australia. This is not news. This is either sensationalist or lazy journalism; take your pick.

- Getting the opinions of far right wing idiots is cheap journalism. Idiots like these live in all countries. Thankfully Australian media is not asking the opinions of idiots in India and subliminally representing this is what the average Indian thinks.

Are there racist attacks in Australia? Of course. Are westerners racially attacked in India. Of course. (Think of Goa.) But the facts, the stats, suggest that this is primarily a media beat up and provocative pictures like on the front of your magazine further drive a wedge between Australians and Indians.
Pete Mc
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 02:07 AM
22
David Brown has a point, but there is a difference between racism and thievery.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Feb 01, 2010 01:55 AM
21
It must be embarrassing to have the comments (generally) far better written and thought-out than this poor excuse for an article.
Mic Cullen
Collingwood, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 01:54 AM
20
All this outrage about how Indians are treated in Australia. Well what about how Indians treat Australians? Does anyone in India ever stop to think about how foreigners are treated by Indians? What about single women who travel alone or just walk the streets alone in India?

I can tell you that as an Australian tourist in India during January, every day I had someone:
- lie to me
- cheat me
- harrass me
- attempt to rob me

When walking on the street, I was harrassed, on average every 5 minutes.

Look in the mirror, India. You should be ashamed of how you treat tourists in your country. You show tourists no respect. Most of your hotel operators, taxi drivers and autorickshaw drivers are nothing more than common criminals when it comes to tourists. I am not sure any of them know what the word "honesty" means.

If an Australian asked me about living in India, I would say only if they wanted to stay inside every day because if they went outside, everywhere they went they would get harrassed because they are white.

Every day Indians make a habit, if not a job, out of harrassing and effectively abusing tourists. And they think that is ok.

When India is a place where everyone, locals and foreigners alike, are all treated equally then and only then will I take any call for Indians overseas to be treated fairly.

India, you are disgrace. You and your people are outraged at something that happens to foreigners every 5 minutes of the streets of your big cities. Wake up to yourselves.
David Brown
Melbourne, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 01:09 AM
19
No, mate. Only a few idiots in Oz are racist. Don't let them spoil it for the rest of us.
One day I'll tell you the story of how my daughter was seriously ill in Adelaide, and the only doctor I could get to make a house call on a Sunday night was Indian.
People from both of our countries have much in comon, let's continue to enjoy this special relationship
Peter Hindmarsh
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:46 AM
18
When I was in school, I discussed what it would be like, to go to an Australian college. My partner in discussion instantly said, that "They are a racist society." This was a long time ago. My heart bleeds when I compare the Australian Cricket Team, and this statement together. The Australian cricketers, are not in the least racist, and get along with their co-cricketers from around the world. It would be absolutely unfair, to label the Aussies racist. Perhaps, the Aussie cricketers have had opportunities which their other country-men have lacked, but even if their famous fast bowler, who was not very affluent, before he took up cricket, was still poor, I find it hard to believe that he would be racist. I refer to Mitchel Johnson. If a racial slur was directed to me, then would I resent the fact that I was insulted, because I am an Indian? I would resent the slur, not the racism behind it. Every unpleasantness has an unreasonable reason behind it. I would not visit Australia, if I were Indian, and it was unsafe for Indians. I admire the Australian Prime Minister Mr Rudd, but many Indians in Australia are perceiving that it is a loose-loose situation to settle down in Australia. An important facet of racism, is that the person who practices it, feels that those who do not belong to his race, need not be shown moral considerations, which are shown to the people of his race.
Aditya Mookerjee
Belgaum, India
Feb 01, 2010 12:23 AM
17
Pratyush - Aussies are posting here today because:
1) The Outlook India article was on the front page of some of Australia's major newspapers today
2) Its the only way we can get an alternate view into India to try and combat some of the selective, sensationalist reporting that is currently happening in both countries.
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Feb 01, 2010 12:19 AM
16
Here in Australia we have a problem - with violence. Indians, generally slightly built people - are seen as easy victims. The perpetrators are the same people who are likely to beat up women and children and attack old women for their purses. They are weak and cowardly, and only pick easy targets. This is a major issue, and nobody quite seems to know what's causing it, nor how to address it.

However, For any country to point the finger at another and cry "rascist" is simply a tactic to divert the attention from problems at home. Pick any country in the world - Canada, Sweden, Malaysia, The UK, The USA - they all have serious problems with racism - and they all act as if they don't. Australia is no different, but we are a lot more integrated that many nationalities.

And Racism in India? Ask the Dalits.

Australia has a problem with racism, but its generally among small percentage of the population who are uneducated and - for whatever reason - violent.

If you feel unsafe in Australia - then exercise your right not to come. But before you judge an entire country by a few cowards, make sure you aren't projecting your own country's problems on to ours.

Matt
(Australian, One-time member of Ashoka - The Sydney University Indian Society, Co-worker and friend to many indians).
Matt
Sydney, Australia
Jan 31, 2010 11:43 PM
15
There is a simple way to fix this problem ,,
DON'T GO TO AUSTRALIA
Dave
Sydnet, Australia
Jan 31, 2010 10:43 PM
14
:( This is so sad. I live in Sunshine where many Indian students are residing and the way these attacks are being portrayed both in the Australian and Indian media is just not right. I know because I live here, I shop at Indian grocery stores locally almost daily and I talk to Indian people every day. That there's a growing problem with violence in general in Melbourne is true. But you have to look at who is perpetrating it. It's opportunistic, mainly perpetrated by young people who have read/seen the stories in the media and those young people often don't even identify as Australian. They are proud, ironically, to be Asian.
Quoting people like Van Rudd, who is a lovely guy, but who also wants to make a singular point (that Australia is racist, whether the facts support it or not), or Australia First and One Nation members who are derided and ridiculed for being the ill-informed, out of touch, extreme dimwits they are (and for whom no one votes) and who never get a public voice because of their ridiculousness is not good journalism.
I wish you could all come to Sunshine and see everyday life here, the friendliness, the community, the smiles that everyone shares and not just read about the violence. Yep, people do bad things to others and violence does occur and it's despicable that they do so, but it's not because Australians hate Indians. I'm an immigrant myself and have found that Australia is a safe, wonderful, welcoming country to all and no one need feel frightened living here.
Daniel
Footscray, Australia
Jan 31, 2010 09:48 PM
13
Whose country is Ausralia, anyway?
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
Jan 31, 2010 09:32 PM
12
Dear students,you have gone to that country for purticular purpose(legal/illegal/study/work etc)you have to learn their systems and make supportive of your purpose.The local knows at your first sight how you are from where,.(Australian manners are their culture,you have to go co- existance.even 20 years of your valid passport/living there,their political system can change to deport you from there as they are majority.First use- Sir,please, escuse me may I have, may I know please, can I take it please etc which please them much apart from dress code public behaving givind places to elders,reserved systems for the reserved,only liten. speak only when you have been approached etc,.racism exists everywhere.Organising a protest is unwanted as the case is lies with local Agency.presence of mind and vacating the places of trouble always helps.After the demolition of Berlin wall east German entered into West Germany(now one country)immediately they wanted uplifts,car home etc,which local german hated then? where you are just think.
L.S.Pillai
New Delhi, India
Jan 31, 2010 08:49 PM
11
Ha ha at the person from Hong Kong and the other Aussies posting here.

Why do Indian people want to go to Australia? Because they know even idiotic, unskilled, beer-swilling labourers can afford a two storey house and a Landcruiser. It is not a question about which country is better - either country is bad if you live at the bottom of the dung heap - but the fact that it is ridiculously easy to achieve "success" in Australia than in India - hence the outrage by the Aussies at getting whipped in an increasing number of sectors by more talented Indians.

At the proud, nationalistic offerings of Mr Gambino, I'm just curious, where are YOU from? Because the original settlers certainly didn't treat the Indigenous Australians with any respect, acting with "an automatic entitlement to be in this country", certainly not as "guests". Before you tell Indians to "f*** off" (these words comprising of 43% of the typical Aussie vocabulary), return to YOUR OWN country and call us from there.

Those referring to the "disgusting" gap in India, look at the 30+ life expectancy gap between white and Indigenous Australians. In a "developed" country. But I ask, developed in what way?

Mr Gordy, I suggest you mouth your words to the Indian doctor who will be performing your next brain examination, because I swear there is something wrong in there.

P.S.
Why are obviously non-Outlook India readers posting here? Are the Aussies now so insecure that they will post comments for a magazine not even directed at them? Learn to deal with your insecurities, not take it out on other people.
Pratyush
Melbourne, Australia
Jan 31, 2010 07:49 PM
10
Typical Indian Media - incredibly sensational and selective article.

Might I suggest that your report focus on the overall crime statistics in Australia. You may be surprised to know that its not just people of Indian origin who are victims of violent crime - you'll also find White, Black, Yellow, & even Pink (gay) people also highly reprensented in those statistics.

Are Australians really racist against Indians??
I'm certain if you ask the hundreds of 000's of people of Indian decent who have migrated to Australia if they would rather return to the mother land I'm sure 99.7% would say 'not on your life' .. and the quality of life overall is far higher in Australia.

There's no denying there are some problems that need to be addressed, but I suggest you also focus some of your anger on fixing some of the problems in your own back yard - like the massive (& outrageously disgusting) gap between rich & poor in India.

Wake up to yourselves.
Wonka Hundsheisen
Hong Kong, Hong Kong
Jan 31, 2010 07:33 PM
9
You do not have an automatic entitlement to be in this country. You are here as our guests. Act accordingly not like you own the fucking place.

If you do not like it get the fuck outa my country and piss off home.
Gordy Gambino
melb, Australia
Jan 31, 2010 06:49 PM
8
Three Indians have been murdered in Australia in 2010 - not one. One of these was the above mentioned Nitin Garg, a case where a perpetrator is yet to be apprehended, let alone a case mounted for motive

In the other two cases, two Indians have been arrested for the muder of Ranjodh Singh, who was burned alive. Manpreet Kaur, was killed in Sydney by her Indian husband.

Yet these cases remain ignored by the Indian media, other than an initial flurry when Ranjodh Singh's murder was also automatically labelled racist by Gautam Gupta. I note your Bell Tools header also failed to list these murders.

Why the selective reporting and analysis?
dave
melbourne, Australia
Jan 31, 2010 03:40 AM
7
Is it hubris, brashess, cockiness,....that cause the agressive behaviour? Remember when in Rome do as the Romans to
colin g. morris
vancouver, Canada
Jan 31, 2010 02:59 AM
6
the persons who are attacked are going just for fun..they are not high net individuals..they are weaker sections ...easy target...there is no need to go to australia..india provide education at much lower cost..and indian institutes are best at everything..no need to go any foreign countries...let australia should be for australian
kshitij jain
jamshedpur, India
Jan 30, 2010 11:59 PM
5
Seems white Australians are close cousins of brown Raj Thackereys. A eye-catching influx of outsiders unleashes xenophobia. Where have those posters gone who exulted over European outrage at Muslim immigrants?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Jan 30, 2010 08:38 PM
4
It seems rather incredulous to me that an Indian has to travel to Australia to learn cookery....the obvious intent is simply to migrate to a foreign land.
Before we get so worked up about what is happening in Australia, spare a thought on how we as Indians treat our fellow citizens in India....
Rajan
Austin, United States
Jan 30, 2010 08:24 PM
3
“Since Aussies don’t have enough courage to ‘Hang’ themselves out of shame for their ‘Dismal Show’, they are ‘Executing’ the Indians instead, who are outperforming them in every field.”
Rajneesh Batra
New Delhi, India
Jan 30, 2010 06:14 PM
2
Abusing student visas to gain permanent residence seems to be the new way of migrating. Why else would anyone from India want to go to Australia to learn cookery? What can the Australians teach us about cookery, when they don't have a cuisine worth the name? It is all just an excuse to get into Australia to gain residence. The primary abusers of student visas from India seem to be Punjabi villagers, as is the case with illegal Indian immigrants in Western countries. The unfortunate thing is that a few illiterate and ill-mannered people are damaging India's reputation so badly that even decent Indians have to bear the brunt of the suffering. The Australian government should stop issuing student visas for irrelevant courses like hair styling , nail manicuring and cookery. Another good idea is to prevent shoddy colleges offering such courses from admitting students.
G.Natrajan
Hyderabad, India
Jan 30, 2010 04:45 PM
1
Why a Punjabi farmer boy go all the way to Australia to learn how to be a hotel bell-captain? How many Australians come to India to learn how to be a call center executive?
May be instead of futile Aussie bashing, looking inward will be in order.
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
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