PTI Photo
Union Home Minister P Chidambaram addresses the general session of the Jamiat Ulama-e-Hind in Deoband.
For The Record
'It Is The Duty Of The Majority To Protect The Minority'
This is the golden rule in a democracy. Its sub-rule is that what is a minority in one place could well be the majority in another, says the home minister. 'Alas, some think that the golden rule is dispensable or that it can be applied selectively.'

The Union Home Minister's address to the Annual Conference of the Jamiat Ulema e Hind. 

Today, you hold your 30th Annual Conference and I offer you my greetings and felicitations. I also bring to you a special message of greetings from Smt. Sonia Gandhi, Congress President and Chairperson, UPA. The most learned Ulemas of India – over 10,000 – are present this morning, and it is my honour to address them. I also greet the Rector of the Darul Uloom and recognize the presence of many renowned scholars.

We know that the JUH was founded in 1919 in order to lend the support of the Muslim clergy to the anti-British movement. It was among the first organizations that stood firmly on the side of the nationalist forces and resolutely opposed the two-nation theory espoused by the Muslim League. After Independence, the JUH has focused on the promotion of the social, religious and economic interests of the Muslim community. I am therefore very happy to be able to share some thoughts with this august assembly.

Your invitation to me is a significant gesture. I take the view that it is part of my duty to reach out to every section of the people and understand their problems, their aspirations, their doubts, and their fears. It is my duty to learn about their history, their society, their evolution, and their place in contemporary India. It is also my responsibility to communicate to them the arduous nature of the task of nation-building and the duty of every citizen to contribute to making India a modern, strong, prosperous, just, humane and peaceful country.

Since the beginning of civilization, the world has always been torn by conflicts. The birth of free India was under circumstances that could only be described as traumatic. The scars of partition and of the largest migration in human history still remain. Post-Independence too, the country has witnessed numerous conflicts – caste against caste, religion against religion, language against language.

Nevertheless, we must always remember that pluralism is our inheritance. Pluralism should be our strength. It is only due to the thoughtless words and actions of some that we have, sadly, allowed our diversity to become differences.

The advent of Islam in the Indian sub-continent may have occurred during the life time of the Prophet himself. The Cheruman Juma Masjid in Kodungallur, in Kerala, is believed to be the oldest mosque in India. It was constructed in 629 A.D. by Malik Bin Deenar. According to historians, the first ship bearing Muslim travellers was seen on the Indian coast as early as 630 A.D.

The spread of Islam was largely owing to the efforts of numerous Sufis. Sufis acted as missionaries and spread the message of Islam in a manner that the laity could understand.

India had always welcomed men imbued with high moral and spiritual ideas. It was a sign of our confidence in our innate strength. India thus became the most diverse multi-racial, multi-religious and multi-lingual society in human history. That is a matter of pride, especially when we see some countries struggling to come to terms with their new-found diversity.

We should not turn our back on our history and our heritage. We should not discount or diminish our unique strength; nor view our pluralism as a source of perennial conflict.

Let me recall some facts of history. One of the earliest acts of resistance to British rule was the Vellore Mutiny. It was in 1806, a good 50 years before the First War of Independence in 1857.

During the freedom struggle, hundreds of Muslim leaders fought and suffered, shoulder to shoulder, with leaders belonging to other faiths. Who can forget the glorious contribution of Maulana Mehmoodul Hassain, popularly known as Sheikhul Hind, Maulana Qasim Nanauti, Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, Maulana Ubaidullah Sindhi, Saifuddin Kichlu, Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan, M.A. Ansari, Rafi Ahmed Kidwai and Badruddin Tyabjee and many other freedom fighters?

No less has been the contribution of Muslims in modern India. Among them were outstanding Deobandi scholars such as Maulana Hassan Ahmed Madani, Maulana Hibzur Rehman and Maulana Asad Madani. Other renowned Muslims including political leaders and scholars, actors and artists, and sportspersons and scientists, too numerous to be recounted by name, have enriched our society.

We cannot view Islam as an alien faith. Our Muslim brethren are honoured citizens of India. This is the land of your forbears; this is the land of your birth; and this is where you will live and work. It is a matter of pride for us that all major religions of the world, including Islam, exist and thrive in India.

A nation can ignore its minorities only at its peril. The golden rule in a democracy is that it is the duty of the majority to protect the minority, be it religious, racial or linguistic. It is a self-evident rule. It is a rule that is firmly rooted in the universality of human rights. Hence, we have no hesitation in invoking that rule when Tamils are denied their rights in Sri Lanka or Indian students are assaulted in Australia.

There is also a sub-rule to the golden rule. What is a minority in one place could well be the majority in another place: for example, Muslims in Jammu & Kashmir or Sikhs in Punjab. In such situations, the roles will be reversed. Although a minority nation-wide, the Muslim community in Jammu & Kashmir is bound by the golden rule as well as the tenets of Islam to protect the minority communities in that State.

Alas, some think that the golden rule is dispensable or that it can be applied selectively. It is that thought that is pernicious. It is that thought that sows the seeds of communalism.

We must deplore communalism whenever and wherever it manifests itself in word or action.

Communalism is the negation of pluralism. Communalism also opposes modernity, rejects the idea of civil society, and opposes political freedom to the people.

Three lessons flow from a true assessment of the perils of communalism. Firstly, we must strive to build a modern nation. Secondly, we must reiterate the concepts of a civil society. And thirdly, we must expand the political freedoms and ensure that every person enjoys those undeniable and inalienable freedoms.

I believe that all Indians share a common cause – to fight communalism. That cause cannot be advanced by rhetoric alone. We must confront communalism with the instruments that will defeat communalism.

Moral and spiritual values form the core of a civilization. The education system must instil these values in its citizens, especially its children. Education, however, has a larger purpose. It must empower the child. The education system must turn the wonder of the child into inquiry and the bewilderment of the adolescent into discovery. It is mathematics and science, and that fruit of a historical conjunction, English, that will equip our children to build a modern India. The implementation of Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan, especially the Scheme for Providing Quality Education in Madrasas (SPQEM) and Infrastructure Development in Minority Institutions (IDMI) and the setting up of Kasturba Gandhi Balika Vidyalayas (KGBV) provide the best assurance of quality education to Muslim children.

Civil society is based on a compact. There is an unspoken understanding among people who live together. At the core of this compact is tolerance. The sharper the differences, the greater must be the degree of tolerance. When this compact is eroded, the foundations of civil society are shaken. It is our duty to spread the message of tolerance and strengthen the strands that bind civil society.

In the final analysis, it is the assurance of political freedom, and all the rights associated with such freedom, that will defeat communalism. Equality, equal status, personal liberty, freedom of speech and expression, freedom of worship, right to education, right to work, right to property, right to information, and the other freedoms are the hallmark of a civilized nation. The Prime Minister’s 15-point programme is intended to ensure that these freedoms are enjoyed by all minority communities, including the Muslim community.

While all manifestations of communalism are deplorable, the worst kind of communalism is unleashing communal violence. Violence and violent means to achieve any objective is the anti-thesis of a civilized society governed by the rule of law. The demolition of the Babri Masjid was a manifestation of religious fanaticism and an act of extreme prejudice. Likewise, taking to the path of violence in the name of religion must also be deplored in unequivocal terms. I am glad to note that the Darul Ulloom at Deoband issued a Fatwa against terrorism on February 25, 2008 and categorically stated that “Islam rejects all kinds of unwarranted violence, breach of peace, bloodshed, killing and plunder and does not allow it in any form.” I regard that decree as a call to duty to not only Muslims but to all right thinking people. I would urge that more voices be raised, loudly and clearly, against terrorism and all forms of violence.

I belong to a political party, the Indian National Congress, that has for over a hundred years championed the cause of all the people of India without distinction of caste or creed. I represent a Government that is sworn to uphold the values of secularism, equality and democracy. I bring you the greetings and good wishes of my party and my government. I wish your deliberations success. May peace be with you and may your endeavours be blessed with success.

 

 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Nov 10, 2009 08:56 PM
83
India is a land of minorities. Tamils, Assamese, Kannadigas, Marathis, Punjabis, etc etc and Yadavs, Nairs, Nadars, Muslims, Sikhs, Jains, Brahmins, Vokalingas, Lingayats, Marattas, Rajputs, Jats, Christians etc etc are all minorities in India. Govt should declare all of them minority and grant them minority rights.
Akil
Bangalore, India
Nov 08, 2009 07:50 PM
82
The problem Mr. Chidabaram is that in desh, everyone is a minority - it depends on the parameter. So every minority is out to protect itself. Does this basis of modern western liberal democracies work for us?
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Nov 08, 2009 03:27 AM
81
Muslims are so pathetic. When they are in minority,they shout for their right.When they are majority,they deny the same right to their minority.
Hyppocrisy has no limit.

Muslims always address the non-muslims as kaffirs, and still they do not hesitate to beg for money from the same kaffirs.
Bangladeshis have managed to reduce their hindu population systemetically for the last forty years,and still in Vellore hospital,bangladeshis form the largest patients group.
george
london, United Kingdom
Nov 07, 2009 01:12 PM
80
During our schooldays, theorems of geometry in mathematics have taught us that IF A THEORM IS TRUE, THE CONVERSE IS ALSO TRUE, which seem to apply in the observation made by the Home Minister regarding the golden rule in a democracy that - IT IS THE DUTY OF THE MAJORITY TO PROTECT THE MINORITY, then it is also the bounden duty of the MINORITY to respect the sentiments of the MAJORITY.
ANOOPAM MODAK
DELHI, India
Nov 07, 2009 09:08 AM
79
Yes, we all heard the same drivel before, but the $64 million question is why was India partitioned? WHY?
The Muslims said they didn't want to be a minority in a Hindu majority India, fearful of their past transgressions against the Hindus and demanded a separate Muslim nation, which they got- The Islamic Republic Of Pakistan.
The only problem- almost all Hindus were driven out of the Muslim majority areas (including Kashmir), yet the majority of Muslims(Islamo-refusniks) preferred to remain in the Hindu majority area called Hindustan.
But not content to have a place to live there, this minority wants to dictate and impose their own narrow communal policies on the majority population- and every Congress govt to date has been more than obliging.
Is that rich or what??
Bodh
Springfield, United States
Nov 07, 2009 08:09 AM
78
Kumar,

>>My reasons for opposing the fatwa on Vande Mataram is NOT due to "people’s emotion".

Your quibbles do not clearly suggest that you are OPPOSING the fatwa whatsoever the reason.

>>I would oppose or even condemn "people’s emotion", if I see them as wrong. In fact I see "people’s emotion" as pretty dangerous.

Do not try to dilute the issue. Any citizen will find it offensive, disintegrative and uncalled-for if any established national practice is forbidden by a religious scholar for the sake of his religious belief. In this case people’s emotion against the fatwa is right [see the comments regarding the issue in TOI and other circulations; the condemnation is overwhelming irrespective of religion].

>> I would rather like to see peoples rationality, reason, logic, morality etc.

This fatwa lacks all these attributes.

>>I do not believe that there is necessarily a 'twisted motive' in every case when any person says that Vande Mataram in its context implies a religious worship etc.

You are too innocent, buddy! Such undue indulgence by some of the members of educated class and blindness by the illiterate part of our society have helped these fatwabajs to parade their skills. Anyway, this should NOT be treated as a trifling case.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Nov 07, 2009 01:06 AM
77
Ghai,

>> Seculars' examples for the last 62 yrs.

Oversimplifications are usually self-serving!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Nov 07, 2009 12:02 AM
76
AK Ghai,

>> >> ... You shall avoid the abomination of idol worship [22:30] ..
>> >> You said that you agree with everything that Muhammad said. Do you agree with the above quotes?

>> Yes IF He said so

I am of course quoting Muhammad. So you agree with Muhammad that idol worship is an abomination etc?

>> I follow Sikhism and Arya Samj -both believe in one God like Islam. I rest my case .

We are not done yet. There is more I can quote from Muhammad since you say that you agree with everything that Muhammad said. First tell whether you agree with Muhammad that worship using idols is an abomination etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 06, 2009 11:54 PM
75
Dip,

>> You are very much welcome to defend one’s ‘right to say’. But clear your upright standing against such opinions that is dissent to the general people’s emotion.

My reasons for opposing the fatwa on Vande Mataram is NOT due to "people’s emotion". I would oppose or even condemn "people’s emotion", if I see them as wrong. In fact I see "people’s emotion" as pretty dangerous. I would rather like to see peoples rationality, reason, logic, morality etc.

>> Supporting one’s ‘right to say’ and such principle will lose its core essence if your rejection cannot beat a disintegrative ‘opinion’, clearly originated for a twisted motive.

I do not believe that there is necessarily a 'twisted motive' in every case when any person says that Vande Mataram in its context implies a religious worship etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 06, 2009 08:02 PM
74
mr ghai

could you write a few lines about violent riots in you
city between 1990 to 1995.

i will be obliged if you do.

best

lalit bagai
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Nov 06, 2009 01:57 PM
73
"Examples or distortions used as excuses?'

Faruki

Follow whom Seculars' examples for the last 62 urs ,Gujrati Bajrangies,Godhra Maulvies or which guidelines to follow ?

Ok what are your guide lines?
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 06, 2009 01:29 PM
72
Ghai,

>> To follow the Secular examples already quoted here?

Examples or distortions used as excuses?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Nov 06, 2009 01:01 PM
71
>> I agree with Home Minister .Let us start discharging our duty as a Majority towards the Minority. " Ghai

"Obviously that would be quite beyond you!" Anwaar

To follow the Secular examples already quoted here ???
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 06, 2009 12:23 PM
70
Ghai,

>> I agree with Home Minister .Let us start discharging our duty as a Majority towards the Minority.

Obviously that would be quite beyond you!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Nov 06, 2009 12:06 PM
69
Kumar,

>>I agree in general, but as a matter of principle, I cannot deny the right of a person to express……As the famous saying goes "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

You are very much welcome to defend one’s ‘right to say’. But clear your upright standing against such opinions that is dissent to the general people’s emotion. Supporting one’s ‘right to say’ and such principle will lose its core essence if your rejection cannot beat a disintegrative ‘opinion’, clearly originated for a twisted motive.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Nov 06, 2009 11:34 AM
68
"You said that you agree with everything that Muhammad said "

Yes IF He said so .Even Arya Samjists ,Sikhs and Adyvaitwad thousands years back said no Idol worship .I follow Sikhism and Arya Samj -both believe in one God like Islam .
I rest my case .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 06, 2009 10:55 AM
67
And how should Majority discharge its responsibilty ?

The working guidelines :

"Instead of being punished, the perpetrators were rewarded. H K L Bhagat became a cabinet minister. Jagdish Tytler became a minister of state. Sajjan Kumar became an MP. And it is amazing that the first FIR was filed after 11 years against Sajjan Kumar. Bhagat came to the court surrounded by 1000 supporters"

http://news.rediff.c...kk-on-sikh-riots.htm

FOLLOW THE PRACTICAL EXAMPLES AND BE DISCHARGED OF YOUR RESPONSIBILTY AS THE MAJORITY !

AMEN !!
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 06, 2009 10:28 AM
66
What about Pandits ? What about hunderds of Riots which took place in Congress ruled States for the last 62 years ?

Perhaps the responsibility of the Majority starts and ends in Gujrat !!!
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 06, 2009 10:20 AM
65
I agree with Home Minister .Let us start discharging our duty as a Majority towards the Minority :

"And isn't it odd that the Congress goes to Gujarat and utters phrases like Maut Ka Saudagar? What do you call the murderers of Delhi in 1984? -the home minister as saying: 'I am happy that my friend Tytler has been exonerated by the CBI.' What kind of home minister says that? --what kind of message is he sending down to the investigators in the CBI, which is an investigating agency under the home ministry?"

I am sure if the Congress and Home Minister implement what they preach to us then a very postive signal will go to Hindus,Muslims,Sikhs that this Govt is serious in protecting the Minorities -a Duty of the Rulers .

Otherwise Deoband speach is just a Vote Bank Politics .

CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME ! LEAD WE WILL FOLLOW YOU !!
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 06, 2009 12:57 AM
64
>> however the dissatisfaction of muslims, and people like you is at a fever pitch

Where did I say that I have some "dissatisfaction"?
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 06, 2009 12:53 AM
63
kumar

i dont think that the situation for minorities will get better or worse. you have a minority sympathatic govt in power in delhi, and congress, commie ,secular
rule in many states. however the dissatisfaction of muslims, and people like you is at a fever pitch.

muslims in this forum sneer at chaddies, hindu customs,
and never mention their own backwardness.

it would be great if muslims and your kind get self
rule in certain areas of india. separation of kashmir would be the first step. later on there could be formation of other states. it is appropriate that muslims get a chance to run their own affairs.this would end all charges of discrimination, abuse and insults.

it is mind boggling that a community which has so many reservations , and which makes so poor a contribution ,
to the national good ,has so many demands. over and
above this they are extremely sensitive, and allways
looking to create problems from innocuous issues.
has so many demands
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Nov 06, 2009 12:36 AM
62
Happy Ram Ambalvi,

>> Minorities should be protected by the Majority and we the minorities should insult the majority and expect love in return ??

Who is asking anyone to "insult the majority"? On the other hand, anything that is wrong, whether majority or minority, needs to be condemned. And anything that is right, whether majority or minority needs to be affirmed/approved/defended.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 06, 2009 12:30 AM
61
Dip,

>> the issue we are discussing here is definitely provocative and dividing in nature and could be easily avoided

I agree in general, but as a matter of principle, I cannot deny the right of a person to express a religious/philosophical view (as long as it is not a "view" that incites people to commit injustice, to violate rights of others etc). If someone says that vande mataram, in its context amounts to worship of something other than God, I can disagree with him or I may even advise him to keep a low profile about the view etc. but I cannot say that he has no right to express that view. In fact, as a matter of principle, I have to defend his right to express his view. As the famous saying goes "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 06, 2009 12:15 AM
60
AK Ghai,

You said:
>> >> >> >> If he (Muhammad) said so I will accept.

I responded:
>> >> >> If you agree that Muhammad is the last messenger of God who gave the perfect word of God (Quran), you will have to disapprove of things like worshipping in front of idols in a temple, disagree with the very idea of Ram being a incarnation of God (as there is no incarnation), that the Quran as the final/perfect word of God overrides all other scriptures etc. Do you agree with all this as well?

You asked:
>> If Muhamamd Sahib specifically said so about Ram or any other such Religeous dieties of other Religeons and named them I will agree .

Let us begin with worship using idols: This is what Muhammad says in the Quran: GOD does not forgive idol worship [4:116]; if you ever commit idol worship, all your works will be nullified, and you will be with the losers [39:65]; You shall avoid the abomination of idol worship [22:30]; O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil [5:90]

You said that you agree with everything that Muhammad said. Do you agree with the above quotes? If your answer is yes, I have more quotes for you.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 05, 2009 08:05 PM
59
"And what is the duty of the Minority ?"

One just has to look from the Khilafat movement to see what the duties of minority and majority are.

If hindus are majority, then it is their duty to keep succumbing to the demands of minorities. That is a pure Gandhian principle. The duty of minority, meanwhile, is to keep making demands.

If hindus are a minority(as in Kashmir) then it is their duty to succumb to the will of the majority. So either way, hindus should keep appeasing.

That was the politics of Gandhi, Nehru down to Manmohan Spectrum Singh.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Nov 05, 2009 07:37 PM
58
Even I don't remeber the line sof Vande Maram nor the Chota Pahuncha Maulvies who issued the Fatwa .

corrected
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 05, 2009 07:33 PM
57
Dip

We saw a Sting on TV where Maulvies were issuing FATWAS on payment of bribes.Pay them and get any FATWA YOU WANT.The rate of FATWA was Rs 2500 Even the Maulvi who issued first time FATWA against singing of Vande Matram was seen accepting Money on TV to issue a desired FATWA in the Deoband office where he was the Head of Deoband FATWA wing or head Ulema for issuing FATWAS.

99 percent Hindus and Muslims even don't remember the full Vande Matram or even don't know such a Anthem exists .Even I don't remember full lines of it noew the 'Chota Pahunchas' who issued the Fatwa.

=========

Like nikkers of the RSS the hardliner Muslims specially Sunnies in Nothern India are called 'Chota Pahunch '

Pahuncha is the lenght of the white Payajams Muslims generally wear .The hardliner Muslims generally keep the lenght of the payajama 3-4 inches above the ankle.

Hence Hardliner Muslims are called 'Chota Pahuncha '.This is the word coined by the young Muslims themselves.
========================

Problem of an Aam Admi is back breaking inflation not what to sing and what not to sing. But Maulvies like other blood sucking leaches of Hindus and other races are getting fat by keeping the Society busy and divided on such issues.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 05, 2009 07:32 PM
56
Dip

We saw a Sting on TV where Maulvies were issuing FATWAS on payment of bribes.Pay them and get any FATWA YOU WANT.The rate of FATWA was Rs 2500 Even the Maulvi who issued first time FATWA against singing of Vande Matram was seen accepting Money on TV to issue a desired FATWA in the Deoband office where he was the Head of Deoband FATWA wing or head Ulema for issuing FATWAS.

99 percent Hindus and Muslims even don't remember the full Vande Matram or even don't know such a Anthem exists .Even I don't remember full lines of it noew the 'Chota Pahunchas' who issued the Fatwa.

=========

Like nikkers of the RSS the hardliner Muslims specially Sunnies in Nothern India are called 'Chota Pahunch '

Pahuncha is the lenght of the white Payajams Muslims generally wear .The hardliner Muslims generally keep the lenght of the payajama 3-4 inches above the ankle.

Hence Hardliner Muslims are called 'Chota Pahuncha '.This is the word coined by the young Muslims themselves.
========================

Problem of an Aam Admi is back breaking inflation not what to sing and what not to sing. But Maulvies like other blood sucking leaches of Hindus and other races are getting fat by keeping the Society busy and divided on such issues.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 05, 2009 05:10 PM
55
happy ram

india should offer an asylum to christians from pakistan. that is the only solution.

moral support, diplomatic protests will have no effect.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Nov 05, 2009 05:04 PM
54
happy ram

christians are doing all right, no better but no worse
then others. in fact india can not do without the many christian nurses who work in the best hospitals.

christian insitutions eg schools and hospitals are
makeing a good contribution to india.

this proves that minorities can play a good role along
with the others. however all indians need to develop a modern attitude, and rid themselves of too much religion.

europe has developed faster by playing down the role of religion. india needs to learn from them.

i am appaled how much role religion plays in the minds
of many indians. the debates as a result of wendy,s
book are astonishing. why are people so concerned with
the past. why is vinod mehta promoteing debates of
such stupid things.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Nov 05, 2009 04:17 PM
53
dip

all countries which have muslims liveing there have
issues of various kinds with them.

you can read the angry views of britts complaining
about pakistani,s mostly and also about bangladeshis.
the former are very stubborn muslims, and the latter
are not so stubborn. that is why there is so much
hate and chaos in pakistan.

my question boils down to a simple one.

if muslims are so concerned about their religion , sentiments then it is best that they live in their
own states. they have a lot of complaints, and hindus
keep on apologiseing to them, and trying to win their
hearts and minds ,without sucess.

a british blogger wrote . "how about muslims trying to
win our heart and minds. they have come here on their own. we did not invite them, and we would br happy if they left." this would apply to any immigrant.

jinnah was right and so was golwalkar. the differences
between muslims and nonmuslims are great, and they can
not be bridged by concessions by one side, whilst the
other side is obsessed with their dogmatic and simplistic religion.

india,s problems are due to the presence of pakistani,s
across the border, and people who are their mirror
image inside the country.

i do not want to hurt pakistan or muslims in india.
maybe they have a great religion and a superior culture
however the long and short is that we seem to be at odds with each other.

that is why i think that india should allow kashmiri
muslims to leave india. it will heal a wound in india,s
body. furthermore muslims liveing in areas of high
concentrations should be given self rule.

let them worship allah, and obey the commands of the prophet. i dont care even a bit. nonmuslim india should
try and modernise emulateing the western models,which seem to be the best in provideing welfare and freedom.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Nov 05, 2009 03:49 PM
52
Kumar,

>>If such fatwas are given just a view/interpretation (and not imposed by force), then those who do not agree should contest it, debate it, question it or even condemn it etc.

The implication of a Fatwa will definitely vary depending on the matter it is issued. A Muslim scholar can issue a Fatwa without thinking of it too much if it affects the affairs of Muslims exclusively. But he should think twice before issuing Fatwas that can hurt the feelings of others as well. He should be more cautious if the Fatwa is relating something that can hurt the feelings of his countrymen forbidding some of them to restrain themselves from a particular way they express their respect to their country.

>>If it is imposed by force then Muslims (and non-Muslims) all over the world should condemn it and rebel against such forceful imposition in the name of religion. I would make some distinction between just a view/interpretation that is expressed as opposed to what is forcefully imposed.

Fatwas are usually non-binding among Sunnis and binding on Shias. But that is not the issue, as I’ve already said, if it hurts the spirit of others particularly on a national issue, the scholar who issues such Fatwa must give a deep thought before issuing it, though he is not intending to impose it forcefully. There are lots of issues that can be practiced on strict Islamic rules without hurting the feelings of others and issuing Fatwas on those practices are definitely not provocative. But the issue we are discussing here is definitely provocative and dividing in nature and could be easily avoided.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Nov 05, 2009 03:41 PM
51
Typo :Tell me whom should we now look for help our co-religeonists in Pakistan ?
happy ram ambalvi
Ambala Cantt, India
Nov 05, 2009 03:38 PM
50
Pak Christian Post "Muree, Pakistan: November 3, 2009. (PCP) The news of fire in St. Denys High School Muree and Girls Hostel spread among Pakistani Christians throughout country in minutes on afternoon of November 3, 2009. Hundreds of mobile messages were circulated by Christians in Muree to different organizations that Islamic outfits in Pakistan have burnt down St. Denys School and same was forwarded to PCP by one very reliable source."

Kumar


Minorities are very happy in India .We are progressing .If we are harrased Media ,Judiciary and Courts arethere to take care.Tell me whom should we now look for help our co-religenists ?

It is easy to blame Hindus and if turn they say ok we too are communalists then ?? Minorities should be protected by the Majority and we the minorities should insult the majority and expect love in return ??
happy ram ambalvi
Ambala Cantt, India
Nov 05, 2009 02:07 PM
49
'It Is The Duty Of The Majority To Protect The Minority"

And what is the duty of the Minority ?
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 05, 2009 11:14 AM
48
so many comments on chidambaram's statement.he does not deserve such attention. YOU can see the looks of our home minister has changed dramatically. As finance minister he was always joking and in a festival mood.Now he looks gloomy for reasons well known to him. let us not waste our time in chidambaram.
jebamani mohanraj
chennai, India
Nov 05, 2009 11:03 AM
47
Thousands of innocent Muslim men and women have been slaughtered in Kashmir at the hands of a mainly a Hindu army. India has flouted several UN resolutions calling for plebiscite in Kashmir. If the people of Kashmir, that the Indian government says, are with India, then there is no premise for not holding a plebiscite there. Vivek Chatterjee, Calcutta

Army was never ever used in "policing duties" in Kashmir from 1947 to 1989 in spite of three wars- 1947,1965 and 1971. Army had to be used in Kashmir from 1989- 42 years after Indian independence, because PAKIS pushed in JEHADI TERRORIST with AK47 who were killing innocent Indians- more Muslims have been killed and their women raped by JEHADI TERRORIST than HINDUS. If violence stops Army will be promptly withdrawn from "policing duties" in Kashmir as it happened in PUNJAB and MIZORAM.

India became independent, Pakistan was formed and the princely states joined "either India or Pakistan" by an Act of British Parliament -The Indian Independence Act 1947, passed on 15th June 1947. Plebiscite in any "princely state" to decide to which country the princely state should accede has NOT been stipulated in the above Act. The King of Kashmir acceded to India- although with a bit of coxing from PAKI RAIDERS. If plebiscite is to be held now in Kashmir why should it NOT be held in all the other princely states?? Let Pakistan set an example by holding a plebiscite in "erstwhile princely states" of BUGTHI and KALAT which are part of present day Baluchistan and are seeking independence from Pakistan before asking for plebiscite in Kashmir.
Akil
Bangalore, India
Nov 05, 2009 10:56 AM
46
Kumar

"If you agree that Muhammad is the last messenger of God who gave the perfect word of God (Quran),

If he said so I will accept.

"you will have to disapprove of things like worshipping in front of idols in a temple, disagree with the very idea of Ram being a incarnation of God (as there is no incarnation), that the Quran as the final/perfect word of God overrides all other scriptures etc. Do you agree with all this as well?'

Did Muhammad said Ram was not incrnation or not the Messeger of God ? If Muhamamd Sahib specifically said so about Ram or any other such Religeous dieties of other Religeons and named them I will agree .

Please show me the proof that Muhammad sahib said so and which Incarnations he rejected by name ?
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 05, 2009 10:40 AM
45
"It Is The Duty Of The Majority To Protect The Minority"

Why is the above Principle NOT applicable in Kashmir where HINDUS are a "minuscule minority" of just under 5%. If Mr Chithambaram is serious about what he stated, let UPA Govt grant MINORITY RIGHTS to Hindus in KASHMIR were Muslims are in Majority and in MIZORAM, NAGALAND, MEGHALAYA etc where Christians are in Majority.

The controversial Vande Matharam singing is inconsequential. There are scondrels who sing Vante Matharam, Gana gana mana standing in attention pray every day in temple/church/five times a day and still sell the country down the drain. Want proof?? Just down load the list of officials with "dis-proportionate assets" raided by Karnataka Lok Ayuktha and identify their religious affiliations.
Akil
Bangalore, India
Nov 05, 2009 10:04 AM
44
Either Mr. Chidambaram slept through law school or wasn't a terribly bright student. It is NOT the duty of the majority to protect the minority. Instead, it is the duty of the Constitution (and courts) to protect the minority FROM the majority's will so the later doesn't violate the rights of individuals (the ultimate minorities) MENTIONED in the constitution.

If I were in the minority on an issue, I would no more want to depend on the "protection" of the majority's whim/ability anymore than I want the responsibility of "protecting" the minority should I be in the majority on another issue.
Augustus AAA
Pune, India
Nov 05, 2009 08:05 AM
43
His predecessor dressed too much and this PC is talking too much.Spin doctors like Rajdeep Sardesai have already crowned him the Iron Man.It is all a make believe scenario.He talks of the majory community' duty to protect the minorities.But he has no plans for protecting the majority community.He must be ashamed to attend a meeting where a Fatwa is issued against singing Vandemataram.But,taking away Muslim votes from other secular parties to Congress is all that is important.Good English is no substitute for pragmatic actions.
S.S.Nagaraj
Bangalore, India
Nov 05, 2009 01:14 AM
42
Gayatri,

>> muslims should not criticise fascism.

Telling me what I can and what I cannot criticize is fascistic.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Nov 05, 2009 01:10 AM
41
faruki

muslims should not criticise fascism, because the
the duce principle is close to the idealogy of islam.

mehemmet had complete power,temporal and spiritual.
neither mussolini or hitler had anything compareable.

for heavens sake read a bit on the philosophy behind
fascism, before writeing about it.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Nov 05, 2009 01:03 AM
40
faruki

you defend the rights of the deobandis to speak freely.

however i am attacked when i do so.

you as a believeing muslim, enjoined by your faith to obey every word of the prophet should not use voltaires
sentiments about free speech. it goes against the spirit of obedience taught in islam.mullahs decide even
the length of your pyjamas, and of your beard.

there is in essense little difference between you and
the deobandis.i have been an agnostic and a free thinker from the age of 10.

i live in harmony with free thinking danes, who would
find you unacceptable in their country. i dont suppose
that americans are happy haveing people like you in
their midst either.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Nov 05, 2009 12:41 AM
39
Gayatri/Lalit,

>> was it necessary for the muslim clerics to issue a fatwa against singing vandemataram.

They thought it was necessary. I do not agree with them, but I shall defend to death their right to preach what they believe. Mouthing admiration for Voltaire is easy, but your fascistic tendencies cannot be hidden.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Nov 04, 2009 11:49 PM
38
kumar

many of us wish you would just go away.

find a place amongst the deobandis. thats where you
belong.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Nov 04, 2009 11:49 PM
37
Dip,

>> Please answer, is this (such fatwas) not an uncongenial behavior that should cause anger or resentment even among the majority of Muslims?

If such fatwas are given just a view/interpretation (and not imposed by force), then those who do not agree should contest it, debate it, question it or even condemn it etc. If it is imposed by force then Muslims (and non-Muslims) all over the world should condemn it and rebel against such forceful imposition in the name of religion. I would make some distinction between just a view/interpretation that is expressed as opposed to what is forcefully imposed.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 11:25 PM
36
Maha,

>> >> Give an example of "pseudo moral" that I try to lecture on?

>> It looks like you do not read what you write. Check all your postings from past since you are on this forum

I don’t see any "pseudo moral" in what I write. If you want to contest that, produce what you consider as a "pseudo moral".

>> >> I agree that they have the option to simply kept quiet. Yet, one has a right to express a view as well

>> Then why are you lecturing people here if they are expressing their anger against the fatwa ?

I do not agree that there is any reason to be provoked about if someone says that they interpret a religious worship in vande mataram (though I disagree with the view that vande mataram is to be necessarily seen as a religious worship).
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 11:24 PM
35
Kumar,

Please answer, is this (such fatwas) not an uncongenial behavior that should cause anger or resentment even among the majority of Muslims?
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Nov 04, 2009 11:22 PM
34
Chidambaram is at war against the Negroid balck Untouchables, the Aboriginal Indigenous communities as Arundhati ray article published in Out Look already exposed.

Not only Maosit Menace, zionism and global Hindutva are the best TOOLs to push for Economic Reforms for which the Hindutva forces and India Incs manipulated the mandate in last Loksabha elections polarising the Caste Hindu Votes in favour of the Zionist Dynasty Rule in the US Peripherry Economy.

Chidamabaram present in Devband and the Fatawa issued from conference like a Bolt from Blue reminds me how the Sikh genocide was done with surgical precision and how Congress was supported by RSS,

The parliamentary Nuclear drama enacted by NDA and UPA proved RSS Suppporting the Zionsist Dynasty as and in the sphere of Indo Us Nuclear deal and strategic realliance in US Israel lead.Mind you, it was RSS supported Prime Minister then who opened the doors for CIA and Mossad with breaking the ground for Free Market democracy promotion and Unprecedented Ethnic Cleansing.

RSS and UPA are the two sides of the Same Coin defending manusmriti and apartheid Rule in Southasia. latest communal falare UP is engineered by Chidamabaram, the Economist Butcher who has waged War against the Aboriginal Landscape as well as Humannscape assisted by Brahamin Marxists, Maoists, gandhia carbides, Socialist Oxides, NGOs, Intelligentsia, civil Society and Toilet Media !

Please BE Aware of this Conspiracy as we are PUSHED into Bleeding Twentieth Century once again!

The Ambedkarites are the Greatest culprits. This Afternoon, Prof. Vijoy Kumar, a BSP Activist and Ideologues from Trichur, kerala called me at home on land phone. meanwhile I have read and seen the Agendas of the Ambedkarite orgs BSP, bamcef Factions, Republican Parties. They SKIP Ambedkar and his economics and Adopt Kanshiram. they may not look beyond Kanshiram Line and FAIL to Address the Challenges in a FREE Market Democracy. They Mobilise just because to Mobilise resources. Madhu Koda is not an Exceptions. subaltern Politicians have their Cup Boards ful of SKELETONs as they have been Co OPTED by the Manusmriti Apartheid Order.

Ambedkarites fail to address the problems of Ethnonnationalism, Maosim, nationality Movement, JOB Loss, starvation and every basic economic issues. they are rather indulged in Stetchu Culture creating new Reincarnations and new GODLY System with new brahaminical Class with creamy layer emerging and killing the Constitution, democracy and Ambedkarite ideology. Excluding Aboriginal landscape and Humanscape , the Ambedkarites are fullly responsible to create SPACE and Opportunity for NGOs, RSS and maoists to create the environmemt of Ethnic Cleanisng.

Congerss adopts the 1984 line once again. I was in Meeerut during the period and had to be seized within ARSON, Genocide and ethnic Cleansing year after year. I had to smell the Blood and Flesh spilling all oevr and the AIR was polluted by Smoke.only sounds wer Cracking Biones. We have watched Sikh genocide folowed by BaBRI demolition.

Now, Chettiar Chidambaram failed to wipe out the Maoists now opens New Front and Htaches the eggs of Communalism. UPA behaves Golbal Hindutva aand RSS backed as the MUSLIMS are being used to further ESCALATE the War against terror!
Palash Biswas
Kolkata, India
Nov 04, 2009 11:16 PM
33
Kumar,

"I agree that they have the option to simply kept quiet. Yet, one has a right to express a view as well "

Then why are you lecturing people here if they are expressing their anger against the fatwa ? They are free to express their view as well.
Maha
NJ, United States
Nov 04, 2009 11:16 PM
32
Dip,

>> I think, the almighty won't mind, if-
>> 1)You sing a song respecting/saluting your country
>> 2)You offer flowers to the altar of martyrs
>> 3)You draw a picture like Monalisa
>> 4)You build a sculpture of your national hero etc.

I agree fully. My understanding of God also would not mind any of that.

>> everything stated above can be banned by fatwas and fatwas are already there for restricting such activities in many countries.

I disagree with them and given an opportunity, I would argue/debate on the issue opposing their view.

>> Watching TV/Cinema (many halls have already been bombed in many countries), listening to music are also haram according to strict Muslim rules.

Now there are two things here. To say that watching TV/Cinema/music is haram, as a personal view is different from imposing it on others or bombing/attacking theaters etc. I don’t mind if you close your ears if some music comes, but I would mind if you attack others for listening to music. There is this problem of forceful imposition in many islamic societies which I strongly condemn.

>> To keep a picture containing human face is strictly forbidden. Now think a society keen on complying such restrictions! But you are not perplexed. You are clearly saying that it is not a provocation.

I am of course perplexed at why something like a picture of human face is considered forbidden by some people. If a friend of mine honestly believes that he should not keep any photo, I would argue with him on what I see as a simplistic view of God, but cannot force him to keep a photo (nor will I get ‘provoked’). On the other hand, I would condemn and recommend police/governmental force against him if he attacks others for keeping a photograph etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 11:09 PM
31
Kumar,

"Give an example of "pseudo moral" that I try to lecture on?"

It looks like you do not read what you write. Check all your postings from past since you are on this forum.
Maha
NJ, United States
Nov 04, 2009 10:53 PM
30
Kumar,

I think, the almighty won't mind, if-

1)You sing a song respecting/saluting your country
2)You offer flowers to the altar of martyrs
3)You draw a picture like Monalisa
4)You build a sculpture of your national hero etc.

Look, everything stated above can be banned by fatwas and fatwas are already there for restricting such activities in many countries. Watching TV/Cinema (many halls have already been bombed in many countries), listening to music are also haram according to strict Muslim rules. To keep a picture containing human face is strictly forbidden.

Now think a society keen on complying such restrictions! But you are not perplexed. You are clearly saying that it is not a provocation. Then what's really a provocation? Is this not an uncongenial behavior that should cause anger or resentment even among the majority of Muslims?
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Nov 04, 2009 10:06 PM
29
Maha,

>> Kumar ... He will try to lecture every hindu some pseudo morals..

Give an example of "pseudo moral" that I try to lecture on?
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 10:04 PM
28
Ganesan,

>> >> 'It Is The Duty Of The Majority To Protect The Minority'"

>> The defect in this argument is that it assumes majority and minority as monolith-when it is not.

Any minority view, culture, religion, language etc has to be protected of its natural rights. What so unusual or objectionable about it?

>> The golden rule of democracy is that it is the individual who is the unit-not a group. Not majority,minority etc. The entire speech is gibberish and pandering.

And the individuals with a certain religion or language etc can be a minority. I dont see what you find so objectionable in anything that is said in the speech. Even if you take individual as a unit etc, what is it that you oppose/object to in what is said?
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 09:51 PM
27
AK Ghai,

>> >> Islamic doctrine says that Muhammad is the last messenger of God who gave the perfect word of God (Quran)

>> I have no problem if Muhammd said he is the last messenger .I am ready to accept that if he said so

If you agree that Muhammad is the last messenger of God who gave the perfect word of God (Quran), you will have to disapprove of things like worshipping in front of idols in a temple, disagree with the very idea of Ram being a incarnation of God (as there is no incarnation), that the Quran as the final/perfect word of God overrides all other scriptures etc. Do you agree with all this as well?
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 09:45 PM
26
>> was it necessary for the muslim clerics to issue a fatwa against singing vandemataram ... was it not a silly act of mindless provocation

I agree that they have the option to simply kept quiet. Yet, one has a right to express a view as well (like how some people object to the 'In God we trust' on dollar bills). To view that as some major provocation is silly and immature.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 09:37 PM
25
Lalit,

"kumar

was it necessary for the muslim clerics to issue a fatwa against singing vandemataram. "

Exactly. This is the main issue. But it is waste to educate Kumar on this. He is not programmed to process this information. He will try to lecture every hindu some pseudo morals, but will not dare to challenge it.
Maha
NJ, United States
Nov 04, 2009 08:54 PM
24
"'It Is The Duty Of The Majority To Protect The Minority'"

The defect in this argument is that it assumes majority and minority as monolith-when it is not.

The golden rule of democracy is that it is the individual who is the unit-not a group. Not majority,minority etc.

The entire speech is gibberish and pandering.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Nov 04, 2009 06:38 PM
23
"was it necessary for the muslim clerics to issue a fatwa against singing vandemataram.

was it not a silly act of mindless provocation."

Majboor hein aadt sey !
A KUMAR
MUMBAI, India
Nov 04, 2009 04:30 PM
22
kumar

was it necessary for the muslim clerics to issue a fatwa against singing vandemataram.

was it not a silly act of mindless provocation.
will the mullahs also decide what children will sing
in nursery schools. will the mullahs decide the content
of childrens stories, and forbid muslims to read a
long list of books. how about forbidding the khan family from acting in bollywood, or muslims playing
cricket.

you may not know it but you not much different in
iq or mindset from the mullahs of deoband.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Nov 04, 2009 02:21 PM
21
"Islamic doctrine says that Muhammad is the last messenger of God who gave the perfect word of God (Quran)."

Kumar babu

I have no problem if Muhammd said he is the last messenger .I am ready to accept that if he said so.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 04, 2009 01:25 PM
20
A K Ghai,

>> I HAVE NO PROBLEM TO SAY- MUMHAMMD WAS THE MESSENGER OF GOD !!! ( I have written it so that no ambiguity is left )

Islamic doctrine says that Muhammad is the last messenger of God who gave the perfect word of God (Quran). Do you believe that? Or do you want to add your own convenient additions and deletions to the message/doctrine of Muhammad/Quran?

>> So what is the problem in singing in Vande Matram-don't Muslims call the Country as MADR-E- WATTAN .

Just because you personally accept that Muhammad is a messenger of God (or, after your convenient additions/deletions from message of Muhammad/Quran), does not mean that everyone else has to agree with that. In the same way, if some people interpret a religious worship in Vande mataram in a way that are contrary to their beliefs, I would think that they are free to keep quiet.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 01:16 PM
19
S.S.Nagaraj,

>> Chidambaram's exercise is a big step to garner Muslim votes ...

It is good to garner votes by doing what is right want is ones duty. That is what democracy is supposed to be.

>> The unending appeasement of Muslims ...

What is it in Chidambaram's speech that amounts to unwarranted "appeasement of Muslims"?

>> will continue with the Hindus bringing not realising even now that Congress is an anti-Hindu party

Your definition that to be a hindu, one has to be a anti-muslim hate monger does not hold water. Every one who believes in secular democracy is anti-hindu for you.

>> Hindus sing,without any rancur the line introduced by Gandhiji,"Ishwar-Alla tere naam"

If you do not believe in Ishwar or Allah or if you do not believe that "Ishwar" of hinduism and "Allah" of Islam are the same, you do not have to sing that song either.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 01:10 PM
18
"For example, should a non-muslim sing a national song (of some hypothetical nation) which recites the shahada that there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God? "

I HAVE NO PROBLEM TO SAY- MUMHAMMD WAS THE MESSENGER OF GOD !!!

( I have written it so that no ambiguity is left )

So what is the problem in singing in Vande Matram-don't Muslims call the Country as MADR-E- WATTAN .

Our Clergy is no different than the Pakie's .They too only exploit Muslims .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Nov 04, 2009 01:05 PM
17
Happy Ram Ambalvi,

>> Absolutely no problem in saying Muhammad (PBUH)was a messenger of God when Billions say so.If they believe the only messenger even then no problem. Allah sent his messeger in seventh Century only for the Arabs as Allah felt Arabs were then ready to recieve the Heavenly message.

That the messenger was sent "only for the Arabs" is your convenient addition. Muhammad or Quran (or any Muslim for that matter) do not say that it was "only for the Arabs". If you have to represent the religion correctly, the claim is that Muhammad/Quran is for entire humanity. Either accept the claim or reject the claim. In any case, coming to the context of the discussion, why should anyone be forced to accept any claim about Muhammad, even if it is part of some “national song”.

>> Allah sent Christans' messenger Two thousands years back.

There were no "Christians" at Jesus' time. There was no such a group called “Christians”. The term "Christian" itself was coined later to refer to the people who chose to become followers of Jesus.

>> Very true there is no God but Allah in Arabaic,Ishwar in Sanskrit,Ek Onkar ( only one God )in Punjabi .

That is assuming that a belief in one God as believed by some people is the truth. There are many who disagree. There are many who do not believe in God. There are many who believe in polytheism, numerous spirits etc. Even those who believe in one God need not agree on who is really a messenger of God.

>> Can Muslims ,Christians ,Hindus etc gaurantee that Allah will not send another messeger ??

That depends on the specifics. For example, if Muhammad said that he is the last messenger, and if another messenger were to come, then that would invalidate Islam.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 11:15 AM
16
" I gladly sing Vande Mataram. I would not sing it if I was required to sing it. I would however sing it even louder if I was forbidden to sing it. "

Gulam Faruki Patel

Bravo for your boldness .
happy ram ambalvi
Ambala Cantt, India
Nov 04, 2009 11:04 AM
15
"For example, should a non-muslim sing a national song (of some hypothetical nation) which recites the shahada that there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God? "

Absolutely no problem in saying Muhammad (PBUH)was a messenger of God when Billions say so.If they believe the only messenger even then no problem .Allah sent his messeger in seventh Century only for the Arabs as Allah felt Arabs were then ready to recieve the Heavenly message .

Muslims are correct .

Allah sent Christans' messenger Two thousands years back .Hindus say they reveived their messenger rather a battery of messengers much earlier.Perhaps they needed more messengers due to multiplicity of the Indian languages .

Very true there is no God but Allah in Arabaic,Ishwar in Sanskrit,Ek Onkar ( only one God )in Punjabi .

Can Muslims ,Christians ,Hindus etc gaurantee that Allah will not send another messeger ??

Leave to Allah what Allah has to do !!
happy ram ambalvi
Ambala Cantt, India
Nov 04, 2009 08:33 AM
14
Chidambaram's exercise is a big step to garner Muslim votes for Congress away from the other secular parties like RJD,SP,BSP and of course the CPM.This is being done at the behest of Rahul Gandhi,who is in a great hurry to make Congress the sole ruling party without the crutches of other secular parties.The unending appeasement of Muslims will continue with the Hindus bringing not realising even now that Congress is an anti-Hindu party.
Hindus are unnecessarily breaking their head on the issue of Muslim clerics issuing Fatwa against singing of Vandemataram.Whereas the Hindus sing,without any rancur the line introduced by Gandhiji,"Ishwar-Alla tere naam",no Muslim is prepared to sing even this part which would equate the Hindu God with that of the Muslim.
S.S.Nagaraj
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 06:01 AM
13
Anwaar>>..If they believe, as I do, that the words Vande Mataram mean "I salute Mother India", they should have no problem singing it ..

::Anwaar bhai, the original patriotic song by Bankim Chandra in Bengal was in praise of mother India only, and I salute you for that.. but with such reformed attitude, instead of Dallas you should actually be in Deoband and try to reform those Deobandis...though Jamiat Ulema e Hind members have been truly nationalistic so far, more than the Congress party..

Gayatri Devi>>firstly i strongly disapprove of his way of dressing...

::Why should u disapprove of Chidambaram in traditional Tamil Mundu (lungi in white loin), unless he pulled it above his knee..

>>secondly its stupid to adress the muslim crowd in english which they certainly did not understand.

::well for that the discredit goes to you north Indians, who could not imbibe Hindi amongst South Indians so far...but more misfortune awaits you as despite the orchestrated chorus of that Rahul Gandhi is fit enough to be a Prime Minister, still too many ifs and buts to Mr Rahul Gandhi taking the top job, and the way Palinappan is addressing pan Indian electorates, it seems in the event of Manmohan Singh opting out (due to health or other reasons), the former F.M. turned H.M. may be elevated to the coveted job! But for you it should still be better than a Bongo Parnab babu becoming P.M. eh!
Shyamal Barua
kolkata, India
Nov 04, 2009 02:56 AM
12
I gladly sing Vande Mataram. I would not sing it if I was required to sing it. I would however sing it even louder if I was forbidden to sing it.

Muslims do not have to follow any fatwas from the Jamiat. If they think that the words Vande Mataram mean "I worship Mother India", and they believe that they cannot worship anyone but God, they do not have to sing it. If they believe, as I do, that the words Vande Mataram mean "I salute Mother India", they should have no problem singing it.

Those who say that singing it is compulsory are as wrong and perverse as the Jamiat's ulamas who say that singing it is forbidden.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Nov 04, 2009 02:33 AM
11
faruki

firstly i strongly disapprove of his way of dressing.

secondly its stupid to adress the muslim crowd in english which they certainly did not understand.

thirdly perhaps the english part was all right,because they would have objected to his opinions if expressed in urdu.

fourthly we the saffron crowd understood that he was really haveing a dig at us, with his reference to the babrimasjid.

will these congresswallahs ever stop their self flaggelation. look at the pakis. they can kill a million of their fellow muslim bongos , with not
a trace of regret on their faces.

this week has seen outlook outdoing itself in the wailing and moaning business. same goes for tv channels. its all babrimasjid, 1984 sikh killings,
2002 gujerat.

guess whats been left out.

hindus killed by jarnail singh and his boys, the hindu
pandits from kashmir, burning of the sabarmati express,
terror killings by the mujahhadins in many indian cities with the grand finale in mumbai last november.
hindus are a queer lot.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Nov 04, 2009 02:08 AM
10
>> are you supporting muslims liveing in usa, europe who do not wish to sing national anthems

The answer is there in what I have already said.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 02:05 AM
9
> "Communalism is the negation of pluralism. Communalism also opposes modernity, rejects the idea of civil society, and opposes political freedom to the people."

Good speech from the Home Minister.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Nov 04, 2009 01:39 AM
8
kumar

are you supporting muslims liveing in usa, europe who do not wish to sing national anthems.

are you supporting their rights as muslims whenever it clashes national sentiments and interest.would you behave in a similar manner. i presume a christian like you should also refuse to sing vandemataram. in reality
singing a song or not means little. however it does
leave a bad impression.and this will have some consequences. it is natural.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Nov 04, 2009 12:48 AM
7
Dip,

>> It is my personal opinion that the matter is truly insignificant

I agree. If some people feel that there is something in Vande Mataram that is contrary to their belief, they are free to keep quiet.

>> It will create unnecessary hue and cry in your society.

It need not and should not. The forces who try to create a 'hue and cry' need to be countered.

>> The issue does not have any weight/worth to be discussed here. Fanatics from both sides will try to cash it.

Yes, it is not worth discussing, except when some people try to 'cash it'. I responded to such an attempt to 'cash it'.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 04, 2009 12:15 AM
6
Kumar,

It is my personal opinion that the matter is truly insignificant, a worthless buzz by media. It will create unnecessary hue and cry in your society. We have so many problems to deal with. The issue does not have any weight/worth to be discussed here. Fanatics from both sides will try to cash it.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Nov 04, 2009 12:07 AM
5
Dip,

>> You are like that kid full of tantrums, who is offered a banana but refuses to take it as it is unpeeled.Then after peeling it he again denies the banana. Now he wants the same banana to be skinned on again!!!

Well, I have made a simple point that one need not be forced to sing or recite something that they do not believe in (religious beliefs/doctrines etc that one does not believe in). You could have agreed or disagreed with the point. I haven’t understood your response or what you are trying to say.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 03, 2009 11:42 PM
4
Kumar,

>>If some people believe that some sentences in Vande mataram are in opposition to their religious belief, what is the problem is they do not like to sing it?............................
.....but that is a different issue.

You are just incorrigible. I thought you were just indifferent to worldly interests, lost everything on justice/freedom and right. Now I can see, you can think about patriotic songs or shahadas also.

You are like that kid full of tantrums, who is offered a banana but refuses to take it as it is unpeeled.Then after peeling it he again denies the banana. Now he wants the same banana to be skinned on again!!!
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Nov 03, 2009 11:08 PM
3
>> Only non-nationals can declare fatwa against Vandemataram

If some people believe that some sentences in Vande mataram are in opposition to their religious belief, what is the problem is they do not like to sing it? For example, should a non-muslim sing a national song (of some hypothetical nation) which recites the shahada that there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God? May be, the people who do not like to sing Vande mataram are mistaken in their interpretation on what it means to bow down etc in the context, but that is a different issue.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Nov 03, 2009 10:50 PM
2
Mr. home Minister when was the last time you attended some Hindu group's gatherionmg.. You seem to have no problme attending people who hate rashtra-gaan and even issue fatwa against it..
Anil Kumar
Toronto, Canada
Nov 03, 2009 09:41 PM
1
Please read last para.So far as history of congress is concrned, it is only national party which always plays the card of cast and religion in the name of secularim for its votes.It is the only communal party in India.
Only non-nationals can declare fatwa against Vandemataram .And no surprise that this party will keep silence on such fatwa.
B.Kameshwar Rao
Raipur, India
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