Controversy
Pseudo-Scholarship
Jaswant Singh's controversial book on Jinnah has nothing new to offer, except some rare photographs. It is significant only because it rudely and perhaps unexpectedly exposed the tussles within the top ranks of the BJP leadership.
Jinnah: India—Partition—Independence
Jinnah: India—Partition—Independence
By Jaswant Singh
Rupa | 688 pages | Rs 695

With due apology to every Pathan in the world, I must start with a "Pathan" joke. A Pathan came down into the plains to visit with a friend. The friend treated him to qalaqand. The Pathan loved the chunky, grey-white sweet so much that the next day he went looking for it in the market. Unfortunately he couldn’t remember the name, and so when he saw a man selling what looked like qalaqand, he pointed to it and bought some. As he started eating he found himself in terrible agony, for what he had bought was home-made soap. Seeing his anguished look and the foam trickling out of his mouth, a man asked, “What’s the matter, Khan? What are you eating?” Gasping for breath, the Pathan retorted, “What do you think? Khan is eating his money.” 

That describes my experience with Jaswant Singh’s tome Jinnah: India – Partition – Independence (New Delhi: Rupa & Co., 2009). I spent 695 good rupees and therefore felt I had to get my money’s worth. However, after a couple of attempts to read the book serially, I decided to cut my losses. I began to read the book in patches—50 pages here, 10 pages there, often letting the book fall open and then reading whatever fate dictated. I feel no shame in saying that the responses I offer below are based only on a partial reading, and resolutely subjective.  

My first response: it is an embarrassing book to read. I felt foolish when I found myself trudging through such awful expository prose as this: 

“The League had claimed that it was the true upholder of Islam’s ideological authenticity; also of representing a substantive Muslim consensus, therefore, it demanded, rather presupposed, just a single Muslim medium – and asserting its identity as a different conceptual ‘nation’, claimed a separate land for itself which is why this agonizing question continues to grate against our sensibilities: ‘Separate’ from what?”

Yes, it actually is a single sentence on page 5. As is this on page 50:

“By this time Jinnah had been a Congressman of the Pherozeshah Mehta group, (the moderate group of the Congress, which amongst others included Dadabhai Naoroji, Gopal Krishna Gokhale and their group included Tilak, Bipin Chandra Pal and Lal (sic) Lajpat Rai, and also, secretary to Dadabhai Naoroji who was presiding over the Calcutta Congress.”

Things don’t improve as the book progresses. Here is one gem of a sentence from page 479:

“For one, such an assertion—[Muslims are a separate nation]—though entirely illogical, is fundamentally of an insatiable nature, it will always remain so, forever, as it never can be quenched being born of a peculiar Indian phenomenon ‘minoritism’, endlessly it will continue to give birth to more destructive minoritism, being politically contagious for, Pakistan is doubtless Muslim, but ‘theocentrically’, it is not a ‘theocratic’ state, indeed there is no such state other (sic) perhaps than the Vatican, but then who, other than Gandhi and a few others was to advise caution as we rushed headlong (and unheeding!) down this destructive path.”

While I prefer simplicity and lucidity in any expository prose I’m made to read, I readily confess to being a pedant when it comes to scholarly books. I expect them to fully employ standard scholarly tools and methods—in particular when quoting from other sources. For that reason I took particular interest in the book’s footnotes and endnotes, and checked the quotations included in the main text as well as elsewhere. The exercise was revealing. Mr. Singh’s research assistants apparently felt no hesitation in borrowing verbatim from other people’s writings and then presenting it to him as their own. Mr. Singh, subsequently, compounded the “lapse” by letting everything appear as the fruit of his own labours. I wrote on this matter in the Indian Express of September 1, 2009 and would like to share the relevant portions here:

1. On pages 481–2, there is a long (19 lines), erudite note on the Canadian scholar Wilfred Cantwell Smith. Besides being totally irrelevant, it is a verbatim copy of a note available on the web. The site belongs to the College of Arts and Sciences, University of Alabama; the note is authored by its Department of Religious Studies.

2. On page 588, the long (34 lines), equally erudite note on Benedict Anderson and his book, Imagined Communities, is a meticulous copy of what is available on the web from The Nationalism Project.

3. Page 623 contains a note (20 lines) on the Muddiman Committee. It is copied word for word from the Banglapedia, prepared by the Asiatic Society of Bangladesh.  The note is duplicated on page 630, unnoticed by the publishers.

4. On page 633, the author includes a note on Ramsay Macdonald; it runs to 25 lines, faithfully copied from “British Friends of India,” offered on the web by the Indian National Congress.

5. On pages 634–35, the author has presented a long note on A. K. Fazlul Haq. Its 38 lines were originally written by someone for the Story of Pakistan project.

I reiterate: none of the above carries any indication that it was not authored by Mr. Jaswant Singh or his research team. I stopped after five searches, but I’m confident that more searches of the kind I did, using key words or sentences, will turn up many more such examples.

The main text itself is full of similar lapses. Any number of quotations is utilized, but their sources are not indicated in any manner. Six lines are quoted from Al-Biruni’s book on page 16, but no reference is given. On pages 21 and 22, the author quotes from the trial record of Emperor Bahadur Shah, but fails to tell us where he found it. On page 47, Mr. Singh mentions a Syed Mohammed Zauqi and a letter he allegedly wrote to Jinnah in 1943. Mr. Singh writes, “In this (sic) a rather detailed, but retrospective account is given of the origins of the Simla Deputation and the formation of the Muslim League. This is placed in the Appendix, for interest (sic) though its authenticity cannot be vouchsafed.” The appendix runs from page 526 to page 530. Neither the Appendix nor the main text mentions Mr. Singh’s source or the reason why its authenticity cannot be vouchsafed.

I’m willing to allow that Mr. Singh or his publisher might not find anything embarrassing in such silly passages as the following:

“[M.R.A. Baig] fell out with Jinnah over the Lahore Resolution which he felt to be communal. He, then become (sic) Jinnah’s secretary…” (p. 275)

“Suddenly, Burma (now Myanmar) was now vulnerable, as was Rangoon, and then was it to be India?” (p. 291)

Most people, however, would find it worse than embarrassing having to read a text so irresponsibly prepared. And yet the same is touted as scholarship that allegedly required five years of writing, re-writing, checking, and cross checking (p. xiii).  

My second response to the book is to call it unneeded and irrelevant. It has nothing new to offer, except some rare photographs. If one is interested in Jinnah as a person, Stanley Wolpert (Jinnah of Pakistan) is presently our best guide. On the final years of Jinnah’s political life in undivided India, Ayesha Jalal (The Sole Spokesman) cannot be bettered. If one is more narrowly focused and wants to know how things went wrong in 1946, Abul Kalam Azad (India Wins Freedom) tells it all quite succinctly. For readable polemics, one can turn to Ram Manohar Lohia (Guilty Men of India’s Partition). As for finding a meticulously argued and documented single book on why the partition of India came about and who must take on what share of responsibility for it, one cannot find a better guide than H. M. Seervai (Partition of India: Legend and Reality). Then there are any number of review essays by that man of amazing memory and erudition, A. G. Noorani, that have appeared over the years in Frontline and elsewhere. Mr. Singh believes in an eternal unitary India that just happens to have the same territorial boundaries as the areas of the subcontinent over which the British held sovereignty in 1947, including Andaman Islands, Leh and Ladakh, Sikkim, and Baluchistan. He also believes that the main causes of the Partition were something called the “minority syndrome” of the Muslims and the obduracy of a man named Jawaharlal Nehru. These are good beliefs to hold for a self-defined “political figure,” but they amount to nothing more. 

In his opening remarks (“Acknowledgments”), Mr. Singh states that on a flight back from Pakistan he was struck by the thought “there existed no biography of Jinnah written by a political figure from India. It was then that I decided to fill the gap…. (p. xiii)”  The logic is peculiar. His reason is not that he was personally fascinated by Jinnah and wished to write a personal account of his life, nor is it that a good biography of Jinnah did not presently exist. He simply believes that some Indian “political figure” should have written Jinnah’s biography, and since none did he must fill the gap. I’m open to correction, but no Indian “political figure” as understood by Mr. Singh has yet written a biography of Jawaharlal Nehru or Vallabhbhai Patel. Does he intend to fill those gaps too?

Next, in the Introduction, Mr. Singh poses his big question: “Why was this ancient entity [i.e. India] broken: Why? (p. 10)” Then he adds:

 “… unless we ourselves almost live in that period, and breathe those contentions—[I don’t know how one breathes contentions.]—join in the great debates of those years as participants…not merely be ex post-facto narrators of events, or commentators upon past happenings—[I have no idea how one can avoid commenting upon past happenings while writing about the Partition.]—unless we do this very minimum we will fail to capture the passions of those times. (p. 11)”

I’m afraid his utterly drab, often turgid and frequently rambling narration fails to capture any passion of those times. How could it, when it is entirely focused on the so-called big events and big names? Much worse, in my view, is the absence of any sign of introspection, any attempt to relate what he might believe to be the passions of those long ago years to his own growth as a “political figure.” A more personal book would have been much shorter and of genuine interest than this depressing attempt at pseudo-scholarship.

My third and final response is to acknowledge that it is a significant book, but the significance, in my view, lies merely in its being a political epiphenomenon. It rudely and perhaps unexpectedly exposed the tussles within the top ranks of the BJP leadership. It became a handy tool for many of them to get rid of Mr. Singh. What was personal animus could now conveniently be turned into ideological difference. No history of the BJP will now be written without mentioning this book and what it immediately brought about: the expulsion of its author from the BJP.

Needless to say, the expulsion, as explained to the public, was baseless. The leopard has not changed its spots. Mr Advani's former aide Sudheendra Kulkarni has correctly written:

“Anyone who reads the entire book with an unprejudiced mind will conclude that the charge that he went against the BJP’s ‘core ideology’ is bunkum… Actually, it adds ballast to many of the underpinnings of the party’s nationalist ideology: its total rejection of the Two-Nation theory, its rejection of ‘minoritism’, its concept of genuine secularism.” Of course, Kulkarni does not mention that the book, while rejecting the so-called “Two-Nation” theory fails to make any mention of V. D. Savarkar, who as staunchly believed in it as Jinnah, and did so prior to the latter’s conversion to it. [1]  An introspective Jaswant Singh would have spent some time pondering over the possible reasons why Savarkar and Jinnah shared that theory. That would have been a new and valuable contribution. Mani Shankar Aiyar has pointed out this matter forcefully in a recent review article in Outlook. He writes,

“. . . at Nagpur on August 15, 1943— . . . exactly four years before Independence Day —Savarkar enthusiastically endorsed Jinnah’s claim to Two Nations. Savarkar’s views spawned Hedgewar, Golwalkar and the RSS, and animated the Hindu Mahasabha (besides eventually giving us first the Jan Sangh and now the Bharatiya Janata Party). Here lie the Hindu origins of Partition. . . Clearly, Jaswant Singh the scholar embarrasses Jaswant Singh, lately of the BJP!”

Aiyar has also put his finger on what seems to be the single most powerful drive behind the book, a disdain verging on hatred for Jawaharlal Nehru. If that was deliberate—a ploy to diminish even further the mild critique of Vallabhbhai Patel—it sadly failed to save Mr. Singh’s fate in the BJP. On the other hand, given the role that the RSS and its chief, Mohanrao Bhagwat, play in dictating the choices in the party’s leadership, his fate in the BJP may not be quite sealed. Mr. Bhagwat might have condemned the book but his condemnation was more likely to tell Mr. Advani to make a graceful exit while he still had a chance. The loudest and most persistent criticism of the book has come from those whose own leadership positions are in serious jeopardy, perople like Rajnath Singh and Sushma Swaraj. They were prominently not invited to the latest conclave organized by the RSS, as reported in today’s papers, but their critic, Arun Shourie, was. I also find it significant that Murli Manohar Joshi and Atal Behari Vajpeyi have abstained from condemning the book and its author. I, for one, can imagine a future BJP to which Mr. Jaswant Singh would be of more relevance and acceptance than is evident presently.

I am, however, not similarly sanguine about the fate of Mr. Singh’s book in Pakistan. Sure, just as he has been a hit with the ‘chatterati’ of Delhi so will he be—as he is now—with the English language chatterati in Karachi and Islamabad when a Pakistani edition comes out or the Indian edition becomes widely available. But I won’t be surprised if a demand soon enough rises in the Urdu press to have the book banned—for it questions the concept of Pakistan and the motives of its founder. After all, there is a law on the books in Pakistan against any such “blasphemy.” And many prominent Urdu journalists might be expected to retort to Mr. Singh: “Nonsense. Pakistan became inevitable the day Muhammad bin Qasim landed at Dabul.” “Iqbal offered the vision of Pakistan and the Quaid transformed it into reality,” that is the founding myth of Pakistan; it cannot accommodate the possibility that Jinnah could have abandoned that vision in 1946. “Congress was intransigent,” many in Pakistan would gladly concede, but, disregarding the contradiction, the same will also assert in the same breath: “Pakistan was inevitable.”

Some perceptive Pakistani commentators have already noted this problem. In the Daily Times of August 24, Ejaz Haider concluded his column on the book (“Jaswant’s Art of the Impossible”) by asking:

“So, what are we going to do? Praise him for implying that India played a bad hand in East Pakistan and chide him for implying that Kashmir’s boundaries should not be redrawn? Praise him for placing Mr Jinnah on a higher pedestal that Pandit Nehru and Sardar Patel and reject his contention that partition was bad and didn’t solve anything?”

Compare it to what Muhammad Tahir wrote (“Mughalte” “False Conclusions”) on September 2 in the Nawa-i-Waqt:

“The Brahmin mind in India, by presenting Quaid-i-Azam as a ‘secular’ leader desires to remove the permanent existence of Pakistan from the sacred security of the Two Nation theory. The latter is inviolably linked with the existence of Muslims. Its purpose is not to oppress or defeat some other nation but only to bring about the total fulfillment of the religious, historical, and cultural needs of the Muslims…. [The Quaid’s acceptance of the Mission plan in 1946] “was the last nail he hammered into the coffin of the permanent overlordship of the Hindus and partisanship of the British. He knew what to expect [from both]. The separate state for the Muslims was a consequence of his independent will; it is wrong to thing it was a result of his disappointment.”

No, I am afraid, the reception in Pakistan may not turn out to be exactly what Mr. Singh’s Pakistani friends seem to anticipate


C.M. Naim is Professor Emeritus, University of Chicago

[1] I’m not claiming that Savarkar was the first person. “Who was first?” is not the issue, unless one believes that Savarkar had no mind of his own and only “reacted” to what others wrote. As for those who mention Sir Syed and Iqbal with reference to the “Two Nation” theory, they fail to note that Sir Syed, when using the word qaum, did not mean a “nation-state”; for him the Muslims were a separate qaum, but then they too consisted of several separate qaums. Iqbal indeed talked in terms of nation-states, but it should be noted that in 1930 he did not include Bengali Muslims in his scheme. His vision of “a consolidated North-West Indian Muslim state” was not the same as the “separate states” of the Lahore Resolution of 1940. Please see my 1979 essay Iqbal, Jinnah, and Pakistan: The Vision and the Reality

 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Sep 22, 2009 04:21 AM
41
Varun Shekhar,

>> But is having a "secular, democratic tradition" enough to counter the Islamists and Jihadists? Many Indians, not just Sanghis, feel that a degree of organisation of Hindus themselves, is necessary.

The first and foremost driving force should be spiritual/moral in nature. There can be an 'organization', but the underlying bedrock should remain spiritual/moral virtue. From this bedrock, the people participate in different professions like law, doctors, professors, politics, army, police etc. and exhibit proper discharge of duties with non-discrimination, honesty, truthfulness, sense of responsibility, tolerance, restraint, forgiveness, compassion, reconciliation etc as applicable in their profession and day to day lives. In other words, spirituality/morality/virtue (with or without any 'organization' of religion) is the horse that should drive the cart of any profession (including politics). That is good religion, Good politics. This point applies to people with non-religious beliefs as well. If we put politics in front and let it drive religion, the result will disastrous and self-destructive, like what is seen with violent Islamists and violent Hindutva. They have "Jai Shri Ram" or "Alla-ho-Akbar" on their lips, but without any spiritual/moral virtues and hence desecrate and defile the name of God. They are willing to riot/rape/murder/assault etc with the name of God on their lips. That is destructive to any religion, nation or individual. This is bad religion, bad politics.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Sep 22, 2009 01:13 AM
40
Shekhar,

>> many Indians of different political hues think the cost of remaining united would have been too high.

That's a fact. But your analysis of it is your usual hate-mantra!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 22, 2009 01:03 AM
39
But is having a "secular, democratic tradition" enough to counter the Islamists and Jihadists? Many Indians, not just Sanghis, feel that a degree of organisation of Hindus themselves, is necessary. Far too many Moslems do not respect the secular, democratic tradition, and would be happy to see Islamic laws and theology enforced. And of course a large minority, with some silent backing, are using violence and terror to achieve the goal.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Sep 22, 2009 12:58 AM
38
"The majority of sanghis in this forum now say that partition was good for India,"

Forget Sanghis- and bear in mind that Nehru and Gandhi were called Sanghis by your friends the secular, progressive Moslem League- many Indians of different political hues think the cost of remaining united would have been too high. Partition was the way out, at its time.
It's not out of any intrinsic belief or written-in-stone dogma, that causes Indians to maintain this; it's the reality of the strength of Moslem League demagoguery, gangster politics and the built in fanaticism and proneness to violence of subcontinental Moslems. It's a deep lament that a united India was simply not viable.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Sep 21, 2009 01:39 PM
37
>> am not a Sanghi nor do I subscribe to their ideology but yes I do consider them a bulwark against the agenda of pan Islamisation.

The world over, it is the secular democracies who are fighting against religious violent extremism and terrorism. The sangh is part of the problem, not the solution. The RSS does not have a single morally/politically/spiritually valid argument or means to fight Islamist violent extremism. If one is truly against violent islamists, one has to support the secular democratic tradition and their fight against religious violence (including the fight against the violent hindutva extremists). The secular democratic tradition also insists that all innocent citizens of all religions need to be protected, and that is the way it should be.

>> As Muslims & Hindus we are irreconcilable in our beliefs

The beliefs are of course different, that is why they are different religions. The basis of reconciliation has to be the belief in the human rights/justice/freedom and the idea of secular democratic state. Hindus, Muslims, Christians etc who can believe in it can live together and live together in harmony the world over.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Sep 21, 2009 12:28 PM
36
Sandilya,

>> I am not a Sanghi.

I know that.

By the way, I too feel that no confederation is possible in the foreseeable future.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 21, 2009 11:59 AM
35
Anwaar: "The majority of sanghis in this forum now say that partition was good for India, and they strongly oppose Rajinder Puri's frequent calls for a subcontinental confederation".

Why do you call all Sanghis? I support the already happened Indian partition but I am not a Sanghi nor do I subscribe to their ideology but yes I do consider them a bulwark against the agenda of pan Islamisation.

I can’t believe you do not know that the BJP reminisces the idea of Akhand Bharat. This is an idea which it should shed forthwith to earn respect.

Theoretically confederation is a good idea but for achieving that the peoples of all the three countries shall have some homogeneity, and ideally like minded in culture as they are in Europe .But alas the reality is otherwise. Muslims have no love for the infidels and vice versa .

Then, isn’t it better that we remain as we are now by accepting the stark prevailing reality than indulge in impossible political acrobatics? May be after good regional development and blurring of existing sharp religious differences few decades hence such a federation may become a possibility.

As Muslims & Hindus we are irreconcilable in our beliefs. Therefore any talk of confederation is like attempting to mix fuel and fire. No way, at least for now.
sandilya
Chennai, India
Sep 21, 2009 11:18 AM
34
Varun,

>> Savarkar and Lajpat Rai may have theorised or spoken wistfully, but there's a big difference between theorising and purposely indulging in the kind of demagogic politics with a view to making a partition almost inevitable.

Your posts are so repetitive and dumb! The majority of sanghis in this forum now say that partition was good for India, and they strongly oppose Rajinder Puri's frequent calls for a subcontinental confederation. And here you are writing your drivel for the 100th time, as if vilifying Jinnah is the sole purpose of your life. If partition has been so good for India, shouldn't you be thanking him?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 21, 2009 09:32 AM
33
"It is wrong to hold Jinnah alone responsible for Pakistan. The fact that Muslim League contested the elections in 1945 on the basis of Pakistan and won 87% of the vote and with it every single Muslim seat in the Constituent Assembly, is seldom mentioned. Congress that"

But the question is how the Moslem League obtained this support, with what kind of politics, and what kind of motivation or ideology.
It was the demagoguery of "Islam in danger" and "democracy can only mean Hindu Raj" that aroused fear and suspicion among the Moslems, for whom such slogans appealed to a latent fanaticism.
Jinnah was the main driving force behind this repellent politics. It was Jinnah and the League that actually took the steps to partition the subcontinent. Savarkar and Lajpat Rai may have theorised or spoken wistfully, but there's a big difference between theorising and purposely indulging in the kind of demagogic politics with a view to making a partition almost inevitable.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Sep 20, 2009 04:55 AM
32
Much of the on-going discussion on Mr. Jaswant Singh’s book tends to miss the point. The part played by religion not only in the lives of Muslims but much more significantly in those of Hindus has been ignored. It is the exclusive nature of the latter that made separation inevitable.

It is wrong to hold Jinnah alone responsible for Pakistan. The fact that Muslim League contested the elections in 1945 on the basis of Pakistan and won 87% of the vote and with it every single Muslim seat in the Constituent Assembly, is seldom mentioned. Congress that stood for a united India received just one per cent. Jinnah could not possibly have ignored this, indeed, how could he?

It was not the Muslims alone who wanted to separate. Long before Iqbal and Choudhry Tahmat Ali, Lala Lajpat Rai had put this proposal before the Nehru Committee, ‘My suggestion is that the Punjab should be partitioned into two provinces, the Western Punjab with a large Muslim majority to be Muslim-governed province, and the Eastern Punjab with large Hindu-Sikh majority to be non-Muslim province ---- if Bengal is prepared to accept Mr. Das’ Pact, I have nothing to say ---- Under my scheme the Muslims will have four Muslim states (i) The Pathan Province or the North-West Frontier (ii) Western Punjab (iii) Sindh and (iv) Eastern Bengal’. (A History of the Freedom Movement in India, vol. IV, p. 110).

K. Hussan Zia
Mississauga, Canada.
K. Hussan Zia
Mississauga, Canada
Sep 18, 2009 01:49 AM
31
varun shekhar

i am certain that pandit nehru, sardar patel knew what jinnah really wanted. they declined to give him this, accepting a partition as the best choice.

this forum also has its portion of muslims who think like jinnah. however they know there is no chance of getting a new pakistan, except in kashmir. so hokus pokus, philli whilli they are now super secularists.

however the saying is, that if you look as a duck,
walk like as a duck, quack like a duck then you are
a duck too. the same applies to the indian pakistani,s
in this forum.

why do they bother to pretend. quite silly.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Sep 18, 2009 12:00 AM
30
Gayatri Devi, Jaswant Singh conveniently neglects to mention that the Moslem League was fanatic, intransigient and demagogic throughout the 30's and 40's. Constantly demanding that all its conditions be met, lest there be civil war. They were talking non-stop about it. They never offered an alternative secular vision of India than Nehru and the Congress. It was all a campaign of hate and negativity from the beginning. Nehru, among others, saw through that in the 30's itself.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Sep 16, 2009 03:56 AM
29
mr c.m.naim

an excellent review of the book by jaswant singh.
naim punctures the pompous exsoldier,exbjp politician,
who has produced a utterly useless,unreadable book.

no pakistani will thank js for his vain attempts to
ingratiate himself. the pakistani,s even though utterly
depised in most of the world look down on the cowardly hindu banias.they are proud of their terror infested
country, and their stone age laws.

when in gods name will these stupid indians stop their insistent courtship of pakistani,s- many are afflicted
by this malady, in the secular media, and many political parties. mr mehta, mani shakar aiyer,kuldip
nayar are the most love stricken lot.

european,western education has done no good to these
people. it has been a waste- they might as well have
studied in mud walled madrassahs.
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Sep 15, 2009 09:33 PM
28
Banerjee,

You are right. In my opinion, chasing the minority and drive them away from their motherland can be definitely called as slow holocaust. The refugees must be almost dead although living. The insult they bear, the loss of their means,the pain of separation from their kith and kin and an uncertain future are the curses they take with them. The pain is everlasting and the performers of such crime cannot be taken lightly.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Sep 15, 2009 03:55 PM
27
S:>>"If Sa- gotra or Sama gotra marriages are discouraged, it has a scientific basis. It's equivalent to marrying once own sister bcz afteral 'Gotra' means - lineage only"

I also said tha same thing. But, in degenerate ritualist brahminism in recent times, the official 'puja-samkalpa' gotra is taken different on patri-lineage only, the sister going into another 'gotra' on marriage. Boy marrying sister's dtr is then done, to avoid property-splits, taking it as non-sa-gotra marriage only!. But, it is really a kind of in-breeding only, leading to defective births later on. The egyptian royal dynasty died off bec of the bad habit of marriages of brother to sisters, only.

trans-race and trans-relig marriages will be really good for humanity, if all cultures develop the habit of treating all relig and races equal under God. But the pastors and mullahs insist that any one from other relig should adopt their relig only before marrying kids of their faiths. This habit must be discontinued. The right to continue in one's birth-faith, unless self-chnaging by conviction, must be made a fundamental right, continuing thro marriages. The progeny could be considered bi-faith-ful or poly-faith or omni-faith types of humanity. Good for the globalized world.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 15, 2009 01:20 PM
26
sa-gotra marriages generally discouraged among aaryavarta hindus
Seshadri

If Sa- gotra or Sama gotra marriages are discouraged, it has a scientific basis. It's equivalent to marrying once own sister bcz afteral 'Gotra' means - lineage only.
These marriages are called consanguineous marriages which are prone for genetic defects in the kids. The practice of marrying sister's daughter prevalent in TN & AP is bad for the child's genetic & mental endowment.
sandilya
Chennai, India
Sep 15, 2009 12:32 PM
25
G:
sa-gotra marriages generally discouraged among aaryavarta hindus, especially the rishi-folk, bec they were aware that in-breeding genetically leads to poor quality of offspring. In those days, diff gotras were living together in family groups, intermarrying and inbreeding to preserve the family assets within the group. In is well-known even in bio-science today that inbreeding leads to decay. Have seen cousin-marriage off-spring develop serious handicaps. Discouragement of marriages within gotra desirable, trans-regional marriages highly desirable.

But, if village-leaders take law into their hands and oppress the families around, these self-appointed fatwa-giving monarchs must be lined up and shot down by the district admn.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 15, 2009 12:06 PM
24
recently in haryana one fellow was lynched to death when he went with police to get hiw wife back. his fault was in marrying a girl of his gothra.the number of people killed evry month will be in dozens for marrying within the gothra and worse(for marrying a girl who belongs to the gothra of the majority in that village).its funny to see people projecting people belonging to one cruel religion as better than another cruels followers.
ganapathi
chennai, India
Sep 15, 2009 07:07 AM
23
Anbanerjee,

>> Lots of jews escaped Germany and settled elsewhere as well. example einstien.

That does not reduce the figure of 6 million.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 15, 2009 04:07 AM
22
>Anbanerjee,

>>>> Aren't most of them in India?
>> Probably yes.

Thank you! The comparision with the holocaust is therefor unsustainable.

SO ? Lots of jews escaped Germany and settled elsewhere as well. example einstien

Is it that you never read sentences full sentences ??
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
Sep 14, 2009 11:13 PM
21
Anbanerjee,

>>>> Aren't most of them in India?
>> Probably yes.

Thank you! The comparision with the holocaust is therefor unsustainable.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 14, 2009 11:09 PM
20
Or, it maybe a Dry Day in Chennai, that made tonight the hell of a night full of tantrums and frenzy.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Sep 14, 2009 11:00 PM
19
Aren't most of them in India?

Probably yes thats just makes it religious cleansing !! anyway whats the evidence ?

"Hitler deliberately killed Jews as a government policy of ........Direct Action was a protest against Congress's reneging on the Cabinet Mission Plan, ....

As I said before semantics. And Hitler never said !kill the Jew" he called it the "final solution" like the direct action day. He left his minnons to do the job.

..... lot more Muslims than Hindus were killed.

Evidence ? where is the statistics.

"In any case, there is only one name for someone who calls the Holocaust a "Sunday picnic". Ahmadinejad!"

This is vintage you. I said "compared to.." The best way to win any argument: shout facist.
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
Sep 14, 2009 10:58 PM
18
DEAR DIP its defenitely not dry and even so they sell it behind closed doors.even in india, post 1947 most of northeast has become christianised and most of the dalits r buddhists or christians in south and maharashtra and only for reservation benefits have a hindu identity.the same with fishermen communities,nadars,denotified tribes etc.
ganapathi
chennai, India
Sep 14, 2009 10:15 PM
17
Anbanerjee,

>> Do the maths and calculate the missing millons of non-muslims in pakistan.

Aren't most of them in India?

>> Holocast was Hitlar's policy and Direct Action was Jinnahs policy.

Hitler deliberately killed Jews as a government policy of genocide. Thirty lakh Hindus and Muslims killed in 1971 was the result of a brutal and inept military regime responding like mad men to an insurrection, or what the Bangladeshis would call "War of Independence". Direct Action was a protest against Congress's reneging on the Cabinet Mission Plan, and was supposed to be a peaceful protest. In the riots that followed, a lot more Muslims than Hindus were killed.

In any case, there is only one name for someone who calls the Holocaust a "Sunday picnic". Ahmadinejad!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 14, 2009 09:55 PM
16
I'm sure Sep 14 is not a Dry Day in Chennai!
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Sep 14, 2009 09:35 PM
15
dear banerjee the 23% becoming 4% in pakistan is because most of the lower castes had got converted. they have nothing in any religion and chose either the devil or the deep sea.a gujjar becoming a muslim doesnt make him a mufti nor remaining a hindu makes him a pandit.its only the brahmins and rajputs who have affection for hindu religion as it has kept them on a pedestal while for others its like changing a shirt and not even like shifting a house.
ganapathi
chennai, India
Sep 14, 2009 06:07 PM
14
"Yes I was wrong .Sorry."
happy ram ambalvi


?????????
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 14, 2009 06:03 PM
13
"You dont need to be scarcastic."

ANBanerjee

Yes I was wrong .Sorry.
happy ram ambalvi
Ambala Cantt, India
Sep 14, 2009 05:36 PM
12
Ghai,

You dont need to be scarcastic.
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
Sep 14, 2009 03:42 PM
11
"After partition, internecine massacres killed between one and three million Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs, and created about 15 million refugees."

Sir Anwaar you forgot 30 lacs kiiled in 1971 by Pak Musla Fauj under Tikka the Butcher of 10 lacs Bangali Muslims and 20 lacs Hindus.Lacs women raped and 30 million were refugees flee to India .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 14, 2009 03:07 PM
10
Opps forgot to mention.

2 million jews were likked in Germany between 1933-1945. The rest was killed in other occupied lands during WW2.

Imagine if Jinnah captured other parts of India what would have happened.
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
Sep 14, 2009 02:59 PM
9
"In the holocaust, a government killed 6 million Jews. After partition, internecine massacres killed between one and three million Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs, and created about 15 million refugees."

1) The holocast was over 12 yrs (1933-1945), the figure you quote is just 1947/48. So its not compareable.

2) To compare : in 1941 (census figures) non-muslims in Pakistan constitute 23.3 % where in 2000 non-muslims in Pakistan is less than 4% out of total of 181 million. Do the maths and calculate the missing millons of non-muslims in pakistan.

(The first figure is from India and Pakistan: The Demography of Partition Kingsley Davis, Pacific Affairs, Vol. 22, No. 3 (Sep., 1949), PAGE 260.)

3) Holocast was Hitlar's policy and Direct Action was Jinnahs policy. Both wanted Lebensraum for their respective communities. Whether Jinnah was in the govt or not is semantics.

Ok, call me sanghi facist etc ... and get over the argument.
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
Sep 14, 2009 06:39 AM
8
Anbanerjee,

>> The sheer numbers makes Holocast look like sunday picnic.

In the holocaust, a government killed 6 million Jews. After partition, internecine massacres killed between one and three million Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs, and created about 15 million refugees.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 14, 2009 03:27 AM
7
The point about parition is: Jinnah's action created killed millons in South Asia and later a genocide of minorities in Pakistan.

The sheer numbers makes Holocast look like sunday picnic.

Jaswant Singh is to Pakistani is same as Man Singh is to Akbar. Both boot lickers.
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
Sep 13, 2009 08:25 PM
6
The reality then was,British divided India,and that is the original truth.But,then these days,might is right always,thats the present truth.Jaswant Singh,has never claimed to be a scholar,nor is he aspiring to be Prime Ministership of India or Pakistan.He wrote his idea-period.
suresh balaraman
Dearborn, USA
Sep 13, 2009 09:00 AM
5
Naim's joke about a Pathan and his qualaquand was truly hilarious.I know Pakistanis have a great sense of humour,like Mr 10% for Zardari.Where can i find a book or website on Pakistani humour?
S.S.Nagaraj
Bangalore, India
Sep 13, 2009 12:12 AM
4
Who can blame Jinnah for wanting to be separate from "agonizing" buffoons like this epileptic camel's penis, Jaswant?
Iqbal Z
Pune, India
Sep 12, 2009 10:47 PM
3
You are not only fool reading this book, but fool also spending rup 695, when pirate copy is available on Delhi`s footpath only in rup 100. Is there worth to spend the time reading this book?You can browse the book on footpath and can write a review.There are many reviewers[Just like Khushwant Sing] who did not read a single line of book and wrote excellent review.
Ramesh Raghuvanshi
pune, India
Sep 12, 2009 05:35 PM
2
In order to create hatred between two communities,partition is one of the few issues which these people will always try to make alive.Try to understand their problem.
fine
delhi, India
Sep 12, 2009 07:55 AM
1
"I’m afraid his utterly drab, often turgid and frequently rambling narration fails to capture any passion of those times."

What it lacks in depth and style, it makes up in rhubarb. Authorship does seem to require a bit more than clubhouse gup-sup.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
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