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National  / Cover Stories Magazine | Sep 21, 2009
Sandipan Chatterjee
Wakf land now a club: Tollygunge, Calcutta
Having failed to give the lease rent agreed upon in 1934, the management of the club has now been ordered by court to pay Rs 30 lakh as arrears and Rs 1 lakh a month as rent
wakf scam
Allah’s Left The Building
Meant for Muslim welfare, Wakf lands are being sold for a song by its trustees
Also In This Story   
delhi wakf board chairman’s view
He cannot do much, says the Delhi Wakf board chairman
Wakf Deconstructed

  • ‘To tie down’ is the literal meaning of the Arabic word Wakf. It's used across the Muslim world to denote property donated by individuals and institutions in the name of Allah for the benefit of the poor in the community.
  • 800 years is how old the institution of Wakf is in India. It began when Muslim rulers donated huge lands for charity.
  • 3,00,000 is the approximate number of registered Wakf properties in India
  • 4 lakh acres is the land Wakf properties account for. According to the deputy chairman of the Rajya Sabha, K. Rahman Khan, this makes the board the third-largest landholder after the railways and defence.
  • 35 is the number of Wakf boards in India, many of them non-functional
  • 5 is the minimum number of members a board must have. The number, however, varies according to the Muslim population of a state. Members are nominated by ruling parties in each state.
  • Wakf Acts The 1954 and 1995 central laws endow huge powers with the state governments that set up and run Wakf boards in their states

***

Modus Operandi

Outright sale

  • Builder or businessman identifies a Wakf property
  • They approach members of the board
  • The land is sold for a pittance
  • Board members get their cut

Cheap rent

  • Happens in states where outright sale is not encouraged
  • Builder/ businessman approaches board members
  • The land is given on a ridiculously low lease
  • Land use is changed to facilitate commercial exploitation
  • Members pocket their cuts

Allegations against the board

  • Although Wakf is a national resource to be used to develop institutions and earn income for Muslims, it is so terribly managed that it is the only system where virtually no accountability is demanded
  • Cases of blatant corruption abound. Land is sold off for buildings, hotels, malls or factories for a pittance or given out for shockingly low rents to commercial interests.
  • The boards have become an avenue for political patronage. Muslims who cannot be accommodated in ministries are sent off here. They mostly never do anything for the community. In most cases, they are hand-in-glove with the land mafia and encroachers.
  • The "Islam in danger" sentiment is crudely raised to hoodwink the Muslim public and stop any real scrutiny of the functioning of boards, whose members are out to make a fast buck
  • Ironically, Wakf boards keep claiming properties protected by the ASI as "living" religious shrines. In many cases, there is a clear monetary incentive under the guise of religion.
  • The mess in the boards is also a reflection of the apathy of state governments. Many have not constituted boards; none have carried out a survey of Wakf properties as required by the 1995 Act.
  • As a result of this mess, 70 per cent of Wakf properties are encroached upon, often in connivance with board members or government department overseeing.

Allow encroachments

  • The board covertly encourages Muslims to encroach on a monument. Friday prayers begin to be held on a regular basis. Wakf board then attempts to make it a ‘living’ place of worship. Very often, the encroachers are board members or persons acting on their behalf.
  • Later  surrounding land is sold/ leased as  private property for  commercial  purposes.

***

It is collectively the biggest land scam in India’s history. Wakf can be described as a religious endowment made in the name of Allah for the benefit of the poor and needy in the Muslim community. There are approximately 3,00,000 registered Wakf properties in India on about four lakh acres of land. It is a national resource that should have been developed for the welfare of the community, as it is meant to.

Instead, this resource has been mortgaged, sold and encroached upon with the connivance of the very institutions and individuals responsible for safeguarding it. This is an investigation into a systemic rot. The Wakf boards in most states of India are repositories of corruption, in league with land sharks and builders. They continue to get away with the daylight robbery of their own community because, whenever there is any demand for scrutiny, they crudely take cover behind the “Islam in danger” sentiment.

 
 
Earlier, a sale or exchange of land had to have the approval of the district judge. Now the board pretty much does what it wants.
 
 
Rahman Khan, deputy chairman of the Rajya Sabha, was chairman of the joint parliamentary committee on Wakf that submitted its report a year ago. Having examined the issue in depth, he says: “If the Wakf properties were managed properly, many problems of Muslims such as joblessness, lack of education and resultant poverty would have been resolved. Today, even if we presume that 70 per cent of these properties have been encroached upon or sold off, even the remaining 30 per cent is a huge resource that can be developed.” He has already recommended to the Manmohan Singh government that there be a “total change” in the constitution of the boards and a national Wakf development corporation be set up with professionals at the helm. “Imagine what great institutions can be built as the land cost is zero,” he says.


Wakf property now encroached upon: Fatehpuri Mosque, Delhi
In one instance, the board got a property with Punjab National Bank vacated and then leased it to a society headed by one of its own members. Shops too have been given out on lease.

But that is some distance away and will happen only if public awareness about the scale of the problem is created. Currently, those who purport to be leaders of the community are complicit in the conspiracy to rob resources while perpetuating a siege mentality. They want to capture existing institutions and sell them off piece by piece. They are adept at fanning fears and feeding into the victimhood syndrome but quite incapable of building institutions or shepherding the community towards modernity. Atyab Siddiqui, advocate and standing counsel of the Jamia Millia Islamia university, says that “anytime we talk of reforming Wakf, they bring religion into it”. According to him, the 1995 Wakf Act actually increased corruption within the boards. Earlier, any sale or exchange of land had to be cleared by a district judge. “But now,” he says, “the board can pretty much do what it likes, and shocking decisions are taken all the time.”

Some examples of suspect land deals from across the land:

  • Chennai: In 1997, the Tamil Nadu Wakf Board took the decision to outright sell 1,710 square feet of land in the commercialised Triplicane High street in Madras for a paltry Rs 3 lakh. A sale like this would have required the sanction of two-thirds of the board members.
  • Mumbai: The Maharashtra Wakf Board got a measly Rs 16 lakh for 4,532 square metres in the upscale Altamount Road on which none other than Mukesh Ambani is building his plush 27-storey home.
  • Bangalore: Developed on about five acres of land, the Windsor Manor hotel here was till recently giving the board a rent of Rs 12,000 a month for a property worth Rs 500 crore.
  • Faridabad: The Wakf board has been giving out about five acres of land on 11-month leases for several years at a ridiculously low rent between Rs 500 and Rs 1,500 per month. A factory was built and land use altered.

When Outlook approached Salman Khursheed, the Union minister for minority affairs, he admitted that “Wakf is one of those areas in which accountability has not been demanded. The community itself has not demanded accountability possibly due to a level of ignorance”. Can things change? Khursheed says he has proposed changes in the existing laws. “Once there was no accountability in the management of Haj. Now questions are asked all the time,” he points out. “Although the Wakf situation looks impossible, things do and can change once awareness builds up.”


Wakf land now a hotel: Windsor Manor, Bangalore
The hotel was paying a lease of just Rs 12,000 a month for this five-acre plot till the courts recently ordered a rent of Rs 6 lakh a month for a property worth Rs 500 crore

The heart of the problem lies in the constitution of the boards. A senior bureaucrat familiar with the issue says bluntly: “The boards are ill-constituted, not constituted or politically constituted. Often, they’re nothing more than a gang of thieves.” Mostly, political hangers-on and operators from the minority community are sent off to man the boards. The policies of successive governments have created a class of “sarkari Musalmans” adept at capturing institutions and bagging positions through which they can patronise others down the pecking order. The incentive they have, besides authority, is to pilfer as much as they can get away with.

 
 
The policies of successive governments have created a class of ‘sarkari Musalmans’ who are adept at capturing institutions.
 
 
There are enough examples of how a small group of “insiders” at Muslim institutions benefit from the overall laxity in the boards. For instance, there is the case of a member of the Delhi minorities commission running a private school on a large tract of Wakf land in the expensive Nizamuddin area and paying the board a pittance of Rs 1,000 rent per month. Mohammad Arif, section officer in charge of properties in the Delhi Wakf office, admits reluctantly that there are “some schools running on Wakf land but they are not for the poor and charge fees”. Further digging reveals that, two decades ago, Delhi Wakf ran a charitable dispensary but it was shut down. Now the main service they provide is paying salaries of imams attached to masjids (see On a Wink and a Prayer).

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Wakf land now Ambani Home: Altamount Rd, Mumbai
The market value of this 4,532 sq m plot on which Mukesh Ambani is building a 27-storey skyscraper is Rs 21 crore but the board ratified its sale for a "contribution" of Rs 16 lakh

There are two revealing cases linked to the huge Fatehpuri mosque in Delhi. According to some documents accessed by Outlook, what was listed as “Wakf estate number 6540 in masjid Fatehpuri” was occupied by a branch of the Punjab National Bank. The board fought a case and got the property vacated. Subsequently, however, it leased the property to a society headed by one of its own members, a Maulana Moazzam Ahmad. A blatant case of insider trading? Three years ago, a lawyer representing a school running inside the Fatehpuri mosque tried to get a shop at the entrance removed. The Wakf board claimed that the documents relevant for that plot of land were missing—it was widely suspected that the shopkeeper was paying off members. Salman Khursheed also pleads helplessness. “What do we do when the boards let their own properties be encroached upon and then say the documents are missing and they have lost the title deeds?”

That is, in fact, the most common tactic used when the boards are in league with encroachers. RS deputy chairman Rahman Khan says that there is no doubt that almost 70 to 80 per cent of Wakf land is encroached upon. Often, it is the government that simply takes over the land. But all too often Muslims themselves are the encroachers who pay off board members to live inside mosques and shrines or run shops and businesses on the premises. “Corruption in the boards is rampant,” says Rahman Khan, “and this is made worse by the attitude of state governments to Muslim institutions. They don’t want to interfere in case there is a reaction and they also don’t care because Muslims are involved.”


Wakf land sold cheap: Lal Bagh, Bangalore
This 90,000 sq ft of prime property in the city’s posh area was sold for just Rs 1 crore when it could have fetched over Rs 90 crore in the market

Standing counsel for Jamia Millia Islamia Atyab Siddiqui says that whenever there is an initiative from educated Muslims to preserve a legacy, build an institution or perhaps even introduce modern education, there is a run-in with the Wakf board. “We believe the Wakf does not have the instruments to preserve old mosques and we have been arguing that the ASI is better positioned to manage properties. But the problem that enlightened sections of society face is that they run up against monetary interests of a few who hide behind the guise of religion.” K.K. Mohammad is a veteran ASI archaeologist who has worked across India. Now the superintending archaeologist for the Delhi circle, he says, “My experience shows me that whenever people claim protected monuments as living shrines, there is a commercial incentive of occupying the monument or developing the land around it. All communities have people who do this.”

Most old Wakf properties have caretakers who treat it like a personal fiefdom, building houses and businesses and destroying the character of the shrine. Siddiqui has been part of the initiative to preserve the historic Anglo-Arabic school in Delhi’s Ajmeri gate area. He says, “The high court ordered the removal of encroachers (about 50 families) from the heritage property. But the same lot of property dealers, local toughs, interlopers are again trying to move in under the Wakf umbrella.”

 
 
Andhra has the largest number of Wakf properties registered in the country. Here the government has simply taken over land.
 
 
Across the country, there are examples of the huge Wakf mess. West Bengal has many cases of properties being encroached upon and made into little slums. Some examples: 4,000 illegal occupants are in possession of a property in Calcutta known as the Mysore Family Fateha Fund Wakf Estate. Over a hundred mosques in Calcutta and Howrah have been encroached upon. Sixty-four other mosques in the state have been illegally occupied. The story is somewhat different in Andhra Pradesh, which has the largest number of Wakf properties registered in the country. Here the government has simply taken over huge tracts of Wakf lands. For instance, Hyderabad’s hi-tech city stands on Wakf land. There is the interesting case of the government taking over 6,000 acres of land worth Rs 500 crore in Visakhapatnam and allotting 900 acres out of this to NTPC and 800 acres to the Hindujas at the rate of Rs 2.25 lakh per acre. When the Wakf board contested this, the Supreme Court ruled in its favour saying that the land was theirs and transferred it back to them. The government had to then transfer the money to the Wakf board.
 

Wakf land now sold to developer: Aurangabad
Notified as Wakf property in 1973, 14 acres of this Rs 60-crore property was allegedly sold for Rs 8 crore to Nirman Bharti Developers, owned by Vilasrao Deshmukh’s brother Dilip

Clearly, Wakf is a remarkable resource that can be tapped for the community. In a state like Kerala where people are literate and demand accountability, the board is manned by professionals and headed by two advocates, not by racketeers. Bureaucrats in the ministry of minority affairs in New Delhi cite the work done in Kerala as an example of what is possible. But that is an exception. The norm is rampant corruption, in the firm belief that no one will demand accountability.

More than anything else, the terrible state of Wakf properties in India reflects on the Muslim community’s failure to build institutions. Compare this with the manner in which the tiny Christian minority has preserved and built schools, colleges and hospitals. There is a complex set of reasons for this state of affairs in institutions that purport to work for the welfare of the country’s largest minority and the world’s second-largest Muslim population. In the case of Wakf, many illiterate Muslims just see their placards and presume the land belongs to them. They are encouraged to believe there is some higher religious purpose to Wakf, little knowing that it has become a synonym for daylight robbery. The greatest hypocrisy perhaps is that the men who violate the spirit of charity behind the concept of Wakf then pretend to be devout and pious believers.

Also In This Story   
delhi wakf board chairman’s view
He cannot do much, says the Delhi Wakf board chairman
 
Daily MailPublished
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Sep 20, 2009 02:41 AM
69
saba naqvi has touched an important issue.her offort should be appreciated.
nadia batool bokhari
lahore, Pakistan
Sep 19, 2009 05:15 AM
68
Thanks mam cant but agree with u ,i have made the very same thing clear-the whole dam take on such issues is pointless and getting no were.
drharun
chennai, India
Sep 19, 2009 01:10 AM
67
Outlook needs to be more alert to internal inconsistencies: if 90,000 sq ft of land in Lalbagh, Bangalore is worth Rs. 90 crores; can 45,000 square feet in Altamount Road, Bombay -- a far more expensive market -- be worth Rs. 21 crores?
Nitin Kibe
Washington DC, USA
Sep 18, 2009 05:33 PM
66
dr harun,

this communal debate is pointless-

its like walking on a treadmill- getting no where.

the best is to admit that no one is without blame,
no one is pefect,and stop haveing huge expectations.

the article regarding the wafk properties shows,that
muslims are very tolerant about the thugs in their
midst. they have lost great opportunities to build
something useful, for the sake of petty or larger
gains for themselves.-

nothing interesting,useful gets debated- climate
change, environment, population growth,education are
of no interest-

bashing each other ,will serve no purpose- it will
divert attention from major issues which need attention.

i suggest that all of us do something useful every day. just watering plants, feeding birds will take
our minds away from the usual rot. let us have time off to have a merry laugh with friends-

drink a glass of beer, or a cup of chai-

anything but the dismal dirge of every day.

lalit bagai
gayatri devi
delhi, India
Sep 17, 2009 11:20 PM
65
Religion does not come in a way of corruption, be it of any kind or of any scale. But on the contrary it is now being used as a shield to protect the corrupt acts. Wakf Boards are also no exception. I would like to congratulate the Author for bringing this issue in spotlight.
Nasir Ehsan
New Delhi, India
Sep 16, 2009 05:03 PM
64
Akil:>>"Why must HINDU STUDENTS pay for joining "JESUS CALLS"?"

The more fundamental question is why should any non-chr student try to join such a 'nish-kaaruNya' institute insulting jesus, the divine shepherd, when so many other colleges are there and all subjects can be mostly mastered thro the internet these days, even in the absence of good teachers.

I remember that the dad of this paul, also called dinakaran, was holding meetings in madras beach where some people pretended swoon and woke up on hearing the name of christ, as conversion tricks. When some of students in my lect on philo told me about it, I told them that the only God behind all relig will punish people who play such tricks. Within weeks, a dtr of dinakaran died in an accident, en-route to the airport. dinakaran, the evangelist, could not revive her by saying the name of christ!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 16, 2009 04:44 PM
63
Kumar, Bangalore

The KARUNYA UNIVERSITY, Coimbatore of Dr Paul Dinakaran, the billionaire evangelist of Chennai, collects Rs 10000/- from every student, irrespective of their religion, who joins that institution as MEMBER SHIP FEE for "JESUS CALLS" organisation in CASH. The payment is retained even if the student opts to leave the institution with in 2-3 months for some other institution.

Why must HINDU STUDENTS pay for joining "JESUS CALLS"????. Why is the amount collected as CASH when all other fee payment of the institution are in DRAFT and why is the amount retained when the students leave the institution??? Why is the pseudo- secularist not protesting?
Akil
Bangalore, India
Sep 16, 2009 08:58 AM
62
Akil:>>"When you point a finger at someone there are three of your fingers pointing at you!!!"

a fourth finger too, perhaps: in minority chr institutions in TN, given lots of benefits, privileges by the state govt, in full 'autonomy', only chr teachers are appointed on permanent jobs with pf and other benefits. Pagan hindu teachers, of the highest calibre, appointed only as temporary teachers to work from june each year to april, next year, laid off for the summer vacation!.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 16, 2009 08:45 AM
61
>>>The RSS cannot fight to protect a innocent muslim in a riot - instead it attacks a innocent muslim >>>
Kumar, Bangalore

But Christian educational institutions reserving 50% seats for CHRISTIAN students is also secularism. Yah- Minority Rights Blah blah blah-- But what about giving concessional medical treatment to only Christian POOR in Christian Hospitals??? Is that also secularism?? "concessional treatment is extended to the poor on production of certificate from PARISH PRIEST" - first step to "coerced conversion". BUT VERY SECULAR.

When you point a finger at someone there are three of your fingers pointing at you!!!
Akil
Bangalore, India
Sep 16, 2009 02:28 AM
60
Akil,

>> in India speaking for HINDUS is equated with communalism while speaking for minorities is "secularism"!!!!!!!

No. Speaking for rights/justice of all innocents regardless of religion is secularism. Hindutva/islamist style killing innocents on communal lines is communalism. The RSS cannot fight to protect a innocent muslim in a riot - instead it attacks a innocent muslim. That’s communalism.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Sep 16, 2009 01:15 AM
59
Seshadri,

>> "But, burials confine souls to rise as ghosts, produice carbon monoxide."

And he calls himself a professor!!!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 15, 2009 05:58 PM
58
Why these chest beating for the "grabbing of WAKF land"?? The land was grabbed from the rightful owners by the RULERS and now it is being RE-GRABBED. That is "socialism" and India is a socialist country as per pre-amble of the constitution.

But what about the "looting which is on from Hindu Temples- NOT the land alone- even the daily offerings from HINDU PILGRIMS. The surplus generated from "daily offerings of HINDU PILGRIMS" in all rich Hindu Temples- TIRUPATHI, SHABARIMALA, GURUVAYOOR etc etc are siphoned off by the state GOVTS every year. The looting is done by state Govts controlled by Christian CMs like "Late Samuel Rajashekhar Reddy of AP", AK Antony/ Omen Chandy of Kerala or even worse, GODLESS COMMUNIST PARTY CMS.

OH Yah- in India speaking for HINDUS is equated with communalism while speaking for minorities is "secularism"!!!!!!!
Akil
Bangalore, India
Sep 15, 2009 05:39 PM
57
>>You people have invented a culture in which fathers molest their own children, a practice that is endemic in white households.>>
Vivek Chatterjee3, Calcutta,

At least perpetrators of such crimes are given the harshest punishment. They do NOT direct the "Daughter - in- Law" to marry the "rapist" "father in law".
Akil
Bangalore, India
Sep 15, 2009 05:25 PM
56
G:>>". i am all for electric crematorium"
So am I, ashes in urn kept in a sacred place in house, part of it into ocean and sacred river.

>>" but most hindu pandits are against it"
no one, including educated and well-informed Bs, cares for these pundits these days, rightly so.

>>"as the role/importance of male child is lost and hence the thousand old prejudices which form the basis of religion".
this kind of preistocracy should be disgraced and disbanded. When they come to my house for alms, saying all kinds of wrong mantras, I send them off with rebukes only!.

>>"dear professor u have not answered on the hindus polluting the atmosphere by burying and throwing in rivers which is the lifeline of all civilisations"

burial on mother earth is insult only. putting in large rivers might have been ok when populations were in lakhs, not crores.

Full-burn with faggots releases carbon dioxide, besides full soul-depart, absorbed by plantations along with oxygen around in sunlight, to form carbo-hydrate, food for humans. Surplus oxygen released by trees at night, makes mornings bright and healthy. Trees in cremation grounds look healthy only. No need for constant expansions, also. Surplusd place into flower gardens, lotus ponds for rainwater harvesting.

But, burials confine souls to rise as ghosts, produice carbon monoxide, not absorbable by plants, even in sunlight, poisonous to life. Trees near burial grounds do look desolate. Constant need for further expansions. Old cities in europe look very desolate, burial grounds covering half the city-spaces. Even in chennai, church is asking and getting more burial space from their friend MK, these days. God's fury as tsunami will save mom-earth, destroy the polluters only.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 15, 2009 01:10 PM
55
>> the parsis keep the body in the open to rot and be eaten by eagles and its a health hazard

In Mumbai the population of vultures, natural scavengers dwindled recently to pose a threat to Parsis' practices and also ecological balance. The cuklprit was traced to a drug called Diclofenac, a common pain killer consumed earlier by the (parsi) individuals before death.
sandilya
Chennai, India
Sep 15, 2009 12:50 PM
54
coming to burial dear seshadri lot of lower caste hindus too bury.i am repeating in for the umpteenth time but my in my fathers side from villupuram district they bury while from my mothers side in the outskirts of chennai they burn.within the burial practise in my fathers side they burn the first mal child.nothing is based on any scientific carbon mono or dioxide theories but stupid superstitions.most ofthe tribals too bury and lakhs of hindus throw the dead body in ganges to purify it scientifically(chance for u to write a sloka and glorify why ,how it was started and benefits the humanity).the parsis keep the body in the open to rot and be eaten by eagles and its a health hazard if the indl has died of viral diseases but they too will come with scientific stupidities. i am all for electric crematorium but most hindu pandits are against it as the role/importance of male child is lost and hence the thousand old prejudices which form the basis of religion.dear professor u have not answered on the hindus polluting the atmosphere by burying and throwing in rivers which is the lifeline of all civilisations
ganapathi
chennai, India
Sep 15, 2009 09:02 AM
53
Seshadri,

>> a committed islasmist like you.

Can you quote one of my opinions that show me to be a committed Islamist? Does calling you a bigot and a liar make one an Islamist?

>> suggestion that my family youngsters should confine me in old age.

When did I say that? I said your family should restrict your computer use and that they should supervise you. I was referring to your over-the-board highly offensive posts, of course.

>> sufficient for me to assume that as islamist tradition, besides auranga [hopefully, you have not hurt your elder siblings.

You are just dripping with poison!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 15, 2009 08:47 AM
52
A:>>"It was about whether if he ill-treated his father, you can then call ill-treating fathers an "Islamic tradition"?

the very fact that a committed islasmist like you came up with the suggestion that my family youngsters should confine me in old age [in a basement, like you are doing to your dad perhaps!], taking off my computer from me also, is sufficient for me to assume that as islamist tradition, besides auranga [hopefully, you have not hurt your elder siblings]. no wonder, my statement irritates you. unless, of course, you are only a missionary fighting to maximize the hindu-moslem divide in india, for conv-maximizn.

my arguments with you, on this topic, ends here. my apologies to DRHARUN and others on the column.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 15, 2009 06:53 AM
51
Seshadri,

>> the time has come for people of the world to understand and appreciate all the religs of the world..

The time has come to distill and filter the cream of the cream of ideas, values, standards etc.

>> If the spiritual unity behind all relig is widely understood, trans-relig , trans-cult, trans-race and trans-national conflicts can come down

Not if the so-called spiritually considers it a "natural reaction" to indulge in communal riots/rape/murder of innocents. That is why, the need of the hour is to find the cream of the cream. As usual you have got it completely wrong. While you should have a critical view of all religions doctrines/faith etc (to strive for the best of ideas/standards) and respect the human right/freedom to differ with you, you instead do the exact opposite. You support the violation of rights/justice/freedom of others and make a fake and meaningless claim of respecting their religion. You have got it completely upside down.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Sep 15, 2009 06:35 AM
50
These lands did not belong to the Muslim rulers to begin with. They were stolen from the natives.
sameer
bangalore, india
Sep 15, 2009 05:34 AM
49
Disgusting that a jobless insane guy is trying to run a campaign to divide the nation and another who has fallen for the bate by responding to his insinuations.The fact is both are getting no were,Debate on the net has been reduced to dismal lows.One insane bloke writes long blogs with little related to the topic,but only onething in common hate against minorities.The other who goes about either clarifying or defending for what ,he knows better.May be the net is the best way to kill time.
drharun
chennai, India
Sep 14, 2009 10:56 PM
48
Seshadri,

>>>>"A lot of posters have ridiculed you, but that does not seem to mean anything to you".
>> Same is even more true with yourself.

I am posting as a secularist and as a Muslim in a predominantly right wing Hindutva oriented forum. You do not have that to deal with.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 14, 2009 10:52 PM
47
Seshadri,

>> I have been rather unjust to call aurangazeb an truly islamic emperor only.

You are a dishonest dissembler. The question was not about Aurangzeb's greatness or smallness. It was about whether if he ill-treated his father, you can then call ill-treating fathers an "Islamic tradition"? Do you lack understanding, or do you just want to dishonestly use Aurangzeb's unpopularity to win a false argument?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 14, 2009 10:33 PM
46
S:>>”No doubt, some of your posts are quite informative and nice like the recent one you explained on Dara”
Thanks for your compliments.

>>”But at times even I wished you did not go to that length of extrapolation of names of Gods and issues the way you did to make up for an argument.May I politely request you to avoid deriving equations of Gods of different religions?”
I sincerely think the time has come for people of the world to understand and appreciate all the religs of the world, bec the means to do so is available thro common langs, internet etc. If the spiritual unity behind all relig is widely understood, trans-relig , trans-cult, trans-race and trans-national conflicts can come down, resources diverted for conflicts can be utilized for human welfare and development.

During our young days, the most powerful minds of the world were devoted to studies on comparative relig, like annie bezant, aldous Huxley. Dr. Radhakr lecturing at Cambridge collected most students from other classes also! As president, he commanded respect from both stalin and kennedy! The poet laurette of USA wrote the fanmous poem:’bramha’!
Listening to Dr Tillich lecturing on philo in urbana, Ill. was like listening to Sankara on advaita!
But, these days, most intellectuals of the world are concentrating on relatively mundane topics of socio-economics, politics, etc., only; very few on philo or comparative relig. Perhaps because of the big money at the command of the church and imams, they seem to be successful in keeping their relig beyond intellectual appraisals at all. Leave their conv and conq to the H-war for eventual resolution, seems to be the attitude; even perceiving any inter-relations considered basically offensive!

I don’t agree. Hence the retd professor of cybernetics in me indulging in studies on the spiritual base of all religions of the world, as perceptions in perennial philosophy. Afer all, 'Saiva-naaTika-swastha-vidyaa' = cybernetic system theory, implies study of human socio-systems driving themselves towards greater goodness in themselves, from time to time. I am sure a time will come when humanity recognizes the need for such studies, raising mankind above differences of all kinds, fighting basically for goodness against greediness only..

>>”It can be offensive to some. Anwaar has a point here”
He is quite welcome to ignore my posts. He thinks comparative study of relig itself is offensive.
According to him, if someone claims cannibalism is his religion, it should also be respected, without questions or disagreements!

>>”I am writing this out of my respect for you. I do not want you, a senior, to attract abuses. You are most welcome to give authentic opinions”
Thank you. But, I ignore abuses by those who do not command my respect.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 14, 2009 09:26 PM
45
hi ghai great idea.nice to hear u talk about reservation and how it will benefit.i second ur opinion fully
ganapathi
chennai, India
Sep 14, 2009 06:25 PM
44
Four lacs acres is huge area.Best thing will b edisolve all the Wakaf Boards .Take over the propeties .Construcy Schools,Universities ,management and Engineering Colleges,Medical Colleges ,Institution son lines of IIMs and IIITs etc.They will be run by Boards consisting of retired Defence officers, reputed Educationists etc.Muslims should be in majoity in these Boards.

Reserve 50 % seats for Muslims and balance will be General open seats.Admissions will be on enterance Tests .Muslimswill be protected as their Quota is fixed and there merit will benaturally within the Muslims candidates.

Suitable norms can be made for Girls admission too.

Fees will be very low like IITs. funds are ample in our education anual Budget .The Institutions will be free from any Religous slant except the 50 % reservations for Muslims.Hostels should be mixed ones .No segregation at all.

Ensure Politicans are not allowed within 5 miles radius.And no college Unions .

50 % seats in the Muslim quota and general qouta will be for girls and will not be given to males at all .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Sep 14, 2009 05:42 PM
43
@ Seshadriji

No doubt, some of your posts are quite informative and nice like the recent one you explained on Dara. But at times even I wished you did not go to that length of extrapolation of names of Gods and issues the way you did to make up for an argument.

May I politely request you to avoid deriving equations of Gods of different religions? It can be offensive to some. Anwaar has a point here. I am writing this out of my respect for you. I do not want you, a senior, to attract abuses. You are most welcome to give authentic opinions.

We have our opinion of Aurangzeb for his treatment of Hindus as second class citizens by collecting Jizya. The mosque abutting millennia old Kasi Vishwanath temple is a standing example of religious intolerance, perfidy and cruelty of Aurangzeb. Only insane can rationalise all that Aurangzeb did. If anyone has opinion otherwise in justification of all that Aurangzeb stood for- means the twain shall never meet. No point in debating when the differences are irreconcilable. That’s exactly the reason why Nehru and Patel let the partition happen. We are not even parallel lines!!

It’s not that in India alone Muslims are not able to adjust with majority but throughout the world the story is same to prove they are incompatible with anyone. OK we and Narendra Modi are baddies but what about Denmark, UK, and Thailand populated by people whose religions are other than Hindusim?

Why are there anti Islamic demos & clashes in UK as happened just a few days back? Why is it that there is so much resentment in USA that any Muslim sounding name evokes alarm bell? Muslims will never do self introspection but lecture you and me only on their grievances -some real and some perceived. But who doesn’t have grievances? They never try to understand that we are only reacting while they remain the provocateurs par excellence.
sandilya
Chennai, India
Sep 14, 2009 04:36 PM
42
A:>>"A lot of posters have ridiculed you, but that does not seem to mean anything to you".

Same is even more true with yourself. I have also received some genuine appreciations, on my posts.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 14, 2009 04:32 PM
41
A:>>"Have you lost your mind completely?"

you are right. I have been rather unjust to call aurangazeb an truly islamic emperor only. I should have hailed him as 'super-islamic'. He also killed 3 of his brothers before ascending the throne. The eldest, Dara, had translated the Gita into arabic, paving the way for it to reach the attention of max-mueller in germany, leading to europeans appreciating india's perennial philosophy.

If only Dara had succeeded shah jehan, instead of aurang, india would really have become the sarva-dharma-sowkhya-saamraj, an example for the whole world in the coming centuries!.

History is full of such 'if only' questions: if only patel had lived longer! if only lal bahadur had not died in tashkent! if only annadurai in chennai had not died prematurely! Well, God does seem to take back good people too early! Perhaps, the world around them is too bad, to deserve their continued leadership, I suppose! May God's will be done!

>> let the public decide where foolishness resides.

A lot of posters have ridiculed you, but that does not seem to mean anything to you.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 14, 2009 04:08 PM
40
K:>>”God's relation with a person is most clearly visible in ones humanist tendencies.”
I do see the divine in all humans, animals, whole of nature and the universe itself.

>>”Humanism is a necessary condition (if not a sufficient condition) that shows ones positive relationship with God”
Right. Humanism is involved in appreciating and understanding human behaviour, as individuals and collectives also.

>>”Though I do not know you personally, judging by your posts over the years, your support/justification for violent extremism and anti-humanist communalism etc clearly points to the exact opposite direction. So the relationship (or lack of it) is not as invisible as you assume. You are fooling none but yourself if you think otherwise”.

You are wasting too much of your time in judging me; leave my relationship to God to my own perceptions. If I make egoistic assumptions, I will also be punished by Him surely.

I am also not an evangelist christian to assume that I will be under a 'non-karma', 'all-forgiven' rule, once I see myself 'reborn in Christ!'. In any case, that privilege for Christians also seems to be over now, after 2kAD, Christ having returned to where He came from, as Skanda in sanaatan-daiva-samsthaan, as seen from the Bush debacle and the YSR-burnoff.

I am not really contesting for a ‘parama-hamsa’ award from you or for a ‘saint-hood’ to be conferred by your pope. Hence, you may discontinue judging my humanism or spirituality.

All I have been saying is that all pro-actions will have to receive reactions also, on a broader scale. If even a pebble is thrown on a lake, the ripples will spread over the whole lake. If a train of pilgrims is burnt, a city itself might burn in react. If a dalit swami revered by tribals is murdered [even by devout chr Maoists!] after the rape of a saadhvi, the whole region of these tribals will surely rise in rampage. When indira, admired in delhi, was shot by Sikhs, the whole city turned against Sikhs, did it not?

Humans have to avoid sinful actions, if they want to avoid larger reactions. That is preventive humanism, in my opinion. Not all humans are 'aadi Sankara'-types offering oneself for sacrifice. Even in his case, nrsimha appeared from his disciple and finished off all the kappalika-cult-people gathered there. Nrsimha was no 'all-forgiver' like Christ, nor is Christ, now turned Skanda, any more. Evangelists all over the world need to understand this, for their own good!.

There is an episode of an advaita-achaarya’s disciple saying ‘I am bramhan’ and going in front of a temple elephant, expecting to be untouched, but was pushed aside! When he went and complained to his teacher-aachaarya, he asked him back, why he ignored the clear warning, to keep off, given by the mahout, in whom also the para-bramhan only resides! Selective religiosity can only lead to confusions.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 14, 2009 12:37 PM
39
Seshadri,

>> I am saying it bec aurangazeb is generally considered to be the most islamically 'pious' among all the moghul emperors.

I don't know about that, but even if that is the view of some Muslims, does it mean that the way he treated his father is an "Islamic tradition"? Have you lost your mind completely?

>> let the public decide where foolishness resides.

A lot of posters have ridiculed you, but that does not seem to mean anything to you.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 14, 2009 12:18 PM
38
Vivek Chatterjee3,

>> It is because you eat pigs and consume champagne. Your sisters and mothers visit dance clubs and are violated almost in full public.They end up getting pregnant and give births out of wedlock. This story is repeated time and again in your every household. Often, even the mother is unaware as to who is the father of the child. This system of moral anarchy invented in the West, is often touted as 'freedom' and 'liberation'.

No one really defined 'freedom' and 'liberation' as what you described. You are mixing up issues. There are people who say that women should not be allowed to go to school/college or allowed to go outside of home as that will create the possibility of being molested etc (as if such a thing cannot happen at home, if that were the mindset). What you said sounded dangerously similar. Why don’t you clarify your definition of 'freedom' and 'liberation'?
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Sep 14, 2009 11:18 AM
37
Seshadri,

>> what relation He has with me may not be visible..

God's relation with a person is most clearly visible in ones humanist tendencies. Humanism is a necessary condition (if not a sufficient condition) that shows ones positive relationship with God. Though I do not know you personally, judging by your posts over the years, your support/justification for violent extremism and anti-humanist communalism etc clearly points to the exact opposite direction. So the relationship (or lack of it) is not as invisible as you assume. You are fooling none but yourself if you think otherwise.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Sep 14, 2009 11:04 AM
36
the selection of members of wakf board should be from the professionals of the community in ias/law/medical/engg etc who have earned a name and known for their honesty.all commisions like sc/st/obc women, minority,equal opportunity commision should be out of bound for politicians r with a criteria of retirement 5 yrs prior to the appointment.it should be a full time job and they should not hold any other job and should be compensated adequately.
coming to burial dear seshadri lot of lower caste hindus too bury.i am repeating in for the umpteenth time but my in my fathers side from villupuram district they bury while from my mothers side in the outskirts of chennai they burn.within the burial practise in my fathers side they burn the first mal child.nothing is based on any scientific carbon mono or dioxide theories but stupid superstitions.most ofthe tribals too bury and lakhs of hindus throw the dead body in ganges to purify it scientifically(chance for u to write a sloka and glorify why ,how it was started and benefits the humanity).the parsis keep the body in the open to rot and be eaten by eagles and its a health hazard if the indl has died of viral diseases but they too will come with scientific stupidities. i am all for electric crematorium but most hindu pandits are against it as the role/importance of male child is lost and hence the thousand old prejudices which form the basis of religion.
ganapathi
chennai, India
Sep 14, 2009 10:49 AM
35
Seshadri, >> perhaps on the lines of the islamic tradition of aurangazeb putting dad shah jehan in jail to die there.
A:>>"Is that an Islamic tradition?"

you must know better, since you claim to be a moslem.
I am saying it bec aurangazeb is generally considered to be the most islamically 'pious' among all the moghul emperors, dutifully impsosing the hizya tax on hindus, etc. But, then, if you are only a chr pretending to be a moslem, working to inflate the divide betw mullas and sanghis in india, to facilitate conversions by missionaries and balkanizn by the maoists, then, you may not also know, really.

>>"you making a fool of yourself in public"

let the public decide where foolishness resides, in me or in you. I have no problem with that.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 14, 2009 08:59 AM
34
Seshadri,

>> perhaps on the lines of the islamic tradition of aurangazeb putting dad shah jehan in jail to die there.

Is that an Islamic tradition?

>> I myself retired as prof-emeritus.

That's why I do not like to see you making a fool of yourself in public.

>> what relation He has with me may not be visible to you.

It sure seems that He is not guiding you these days.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 14, 2009 07:24 AM
33
A:>>"Saying that the Almighty will supervise you sounds hollow, because He has not done it so far"

God also has His dicretions, I suppose. What bless He gives to india may not be visible to pak! Similarly, what relation He has with me may not be visible to you, it may only sound hollow for you. Leave it at that.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 14, 2009 07:13 AM
32
A:>>"But someone should supervise you"

I understand your attitude and concern, perhaps on the lines of the islamic tradition of aurangazeb putting dad shah jehan in jail to die there!.

But, such practices are rare among hindus, especially the intellectual B-types. Dads' activities and that of kids do not interfere with oneanother.

I myself retired as prof-emeritus in a leading engg college near chennai, after retiring over a decade earlier, as prof and head of control/guidance and avionic systems labs in EE dept of IITM, after serving there for 30 yrs. The computer I am using has also been acquired by me only, not gifted by any relatives.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 14, 2009 03:51 AM
31
"800 years is how old the institution of Wakf is in India. It began when Muslim rulers donated huge lands for charity."

How were these lands were obtained by the Muslim Rulers ?? We should learn from Robert Mugabe's position on White Farming lands.
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
Sep 14, 2009 03:49 AM
30
Indian govt should learn from Pakistan how to deal with minority property rights. Pakistan solved this problem for its Hindu citizens a long time ago. Its ongoing for christans.
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
Sep 14, 2009 01:43 AM
29
K Rahman Khan has been very kind enough to give the statistics about Wakf properties to Saba Naqvi. He should also spare a moment to confess about his involvement in gobbling up smaller Wakf properties and controlling other institutions thru his cronies in Bangalore.
Mohamed Suhail
Mysore, India
Sep 14, 2009 01:29 AM
28
Seshadri,

>> Silencing me will not solve the problem.

But someone should supervise you so that you do not continue to make a fool of yourself. Saying that the Almighty will supervise you sounds hollow, because He has not done it so far.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 13, 2009 05:58 PM
27
The MMS govt itself has declared that the minorities have the first rights over the nation's resources. Under the circumstance, it is not clear why the extensive lands now available with wakf boards cannot be utilized for building decent colonies for moslem families consigned to live in ghettoes, building costs generated by partial land sales at going prices. Perhaps, wakf lands meant only for burial grounds, other than what is sold out in mischief by self-seeking imams. Perhaps, also, they would only want to get more lands, now in the hands of hindus, to be taken for such purposes of moslem colonies and mosques, so that the majority of land-holdings in the country are also brought into islamic hands only, to facilitate the declare of an islamic republic in india, eventually!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 13, 2009 04:21 PM
26
A:>>"restrict your use of the computer"

Silencing me will not solve the problem. You are welcome to pray to allah to take me off to join him inside the head of Siva as gangaadhara! No problem.
Nor am I just a software sytem, an AIS, designed for giving response-messages of a particular kind only,
without any emotions involved, like you might be. I am a human being with a spiritual soul. My spiritual effects on the world cannot be destroyed, even if my body is destroyed. Extremist beefeaters cannot understand or appreciate my above statement, though.


The real issue is the survival of the earth, the only planet so located in orbit around the sun that carbon-based bio-systems of life can be conceived, live and be reborn etc. eco-damage can have severe effects.

north-america relatively under-populated until 3 centuries back. even there, a storm which hit the houston-dallas area, near where you are, was so severe and devastating that many indian families settled there have since quietly returned to south india.
Bihar and UP, northern districts, tend to be totally devastated during rainy seasons each year. eco-reorganizn requires the cultural cooperation of the moslems there.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 13, 2009 03:45 PM
25
Well researched. This article has brought to the fore what we have known for a long time.

Shame on all the Wakf Boards and their scheming members. Unlikely that they truly believe in the religion they claim to be custodians of.
Akbar Shah
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Sep 13, 2009 02:28 PM
24
Dear Saba,let me decide your next two topics. WHY MUSLIMS ARE SO OBSESSED WITH RELIGION? and another,WHY MUSLIMS ARE SO BACKWARD IN EDUCATION?
george
london, United Kingdom
Sep 13, 2009 02:01 PM
23
Thanks for clarifying Sesh.Glad u were honest about yr respect for others faith.I see a Silver lining amidst dark clouds. Lets be honest as u were and free to express our views and thus contributing what little we can to keep our country thriving.We must not glorify those who have acted against humanity ,what ever the provocation.
drharun
chennai, India
Sep 13, 2009 12:49 PM
22
“The Management of WAKF Board, a true believer of the ideology that GOD is invisible with no shape & size, took the belief a bit too far and made the buildings & lands disappear too in order to earn them a Divine Pedestal.”
Rajneesh Batra
New Delhi, India
Sep 13, 2009 12:46 PM
21
"Land worth Rs 20 crores was, it seems, handed over to promoters of a cottage-style resort called Vedic Village on the edge of Bengal's capital for just Rs 1 crore.....The acquired land included wakf property. The good news, then, is that Bengali corruption is transparently secular. The names involved - Abdur Rezzak Mollah, Manabendra Mukherjee (ministers in severe need of ayurvedic treatment), promoter Rajkishore Modi, Rashid Ali Mondal, Sibnath Banerjee, Nuruddin Gazi - are a hymn to Hindu-Muslim brotherhood. Greed is clearly the most powerful antidote to communalism: Death to capitalism! Long live greed!"

http://blogs.timesof...tuality-loses-out-in
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 13, 2009 12:25 PM
20
>>>>"Burial is the universal and sacred rite of Muslims, Christians and Jews"
>>practised by the rakshasas under hirnyaaksha also, perhaps.

Your family should restrict your use of the computer in order to protect the family's reputation.

>> carbon dioxide produced in cremations, yagjna-fires, agni-hotra at homes, all, duly absorbed by trees.

We also have a crazy American Congresswoman who proclaims that more carbondioxide in the atmosphere is good!!! In any case, I do not know why you are arguing this point when I clearly said, "I have not even mentioned the ecological implication of carbon emissions from cremation, which some others have mentioned, because it would be petty, and I do not want to fall to your level."
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 13, 2009 11:47 AM
19
A:>>"carbon emissions from cremation"

carbon dioxide produced in cremations, yagjna-fires, agni-hotra at homes, all, duly absorbed by trees, plants around, under sun-light, grown all over by the hindus, rishis. The carbo-hydrates thus formed come down as fruits from trees for the healthy consumption of vegetarian humans.

Buried bodies of humans, cows etc produce carbon momoxide leakages poisoning the atmosphere only.
Go down thro earth-anger-quakes, become hydro-carbon gas and oil, now being pumped out and over-burnt to create uncontrolled carbon dioxide emissions to overheat the planet by glass-house effects, since forests have also been destroyed by the pop-proliferating religions you consider 'sacred'. Leran your bio-chermistry properly, first.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 13, 2009 11:33 AM
18
A:>>"Burial is the universal and sacred rite"

practised by the rakshasas under hirnyaaksha also, perhaps. the whole earth got covered by sea waters, vishnu had to come in varaaha avatar to lift the land around colarado to form an ice-one on north pole called meru, the southern hemisphere, populated mainly by the rakshasas, turned into seven dry ridges atala to paataala.

lesson to be learned from the puraNas. it is foolishness to destroy the ecology of the earth in the name of 'sacred rites' of religions deficient in true spirituality. ecological economics, eka-vidyaa yagjnaame, is essential jeeva-dharma on jeevayaanee earth = geos. dharmo rakshati rakshitah!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 13, 2009 10:43 AM
17
Seshadri,

>> I am only pointing out anti-ecological ritualisms in all relig. Only the psuedo-secs like anwar combat only hindu rituals as disdainful.

Liar, give even one example of my ever criticizing any Hindu ritual. I have not even mentioned the ecological implication of carbon emissions from cremation, which some others have mentioned, because it would be petty, and I do not want to fall to your level. Why do you lie so much?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 13, 2009 10:38 AM
16
Seshadri,

>> Idiocy resides in the hideous practice of utilizing the land of mother earth for burying the dead bodies of idiotic moslems and christians.

Shows the degree of your hatefulness. Burial is the universal and sacred rite of Muslims, Christians and Jews, and has been for centuries. Now a nincompoop like you comes along and calls the practice hideous and calls all Muslims and Christians idiotic. You seem to have no sense of decency or shame. You are truly the lowest of the low.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 13, 2009 10:29 AM
15
A sleeping community deserves to be robbed. A community that has scant interest in who gets picked to be on the wakf board, what the board its doing, and who is being enriched, has no right to play indignant.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 13, 2009 10:12 AM
14
DRH:>>"U sesh are going overboard with yr obsession ,hatred towards other faiths"

perhaps you are new on these columns, I have only respect for all faiths at the spiritual level, God = Siva, Vishn = yahveh = zeus = buddh = christ = allah, for me.

I am only pointing out anti-ecological ritualisms in all relig. Only the psuedo-secs like anwar combat only hindu rituals as disdainful, but defend those of chr, isl as their 'relig rights' for eternity! hence the conflict.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 13, 2009 09:57 AM
13
Sesh why r u getting so dam agitated.Why is that u have so much hatred towards other faiths and there practices.How can u have chris friends when u have so much hatred towards their faith.Both u and that bloke from Dallas are bringing healthy debates to embarassing lows.The bloke from Dallas things he is a champion for his folks,who needs such champions who have never been able to reform themselves ,be it womens rights or understanding of the changing world.U sesh are going overboard with yr obsession ,hatred towards other faiths.Why dont u give sane approach a chance.
drharun
chennai, India
Sep 13, 2009 09:29 AM
12
A:>>"What an idiotic comment! It is Indian citizens who are buried in India's burial grounds, not Christians and Muslims from around the world as your sick mind thinks".

Idiocy resides in the hideous practice of utilizing the land of mother earth for burying the dead bodies of idiotic moslems and christians, other than saints, for eternity, even if they are socalled citizens or denizens! the dead bodies should be only burnt and the ashes can be kept in urns with their names on them in shelves in the basements of the mosques and churches.
Mother earth quakes in anger every now and then only against this disdainable practice.

even in usa, the expenses for funeral, casket and burial have become a heavy financial burden, even for middle classes. My chr friends there told me they have to take special insurance policy, necessarily for their funeral expenses, soon after reaching middle-age, even if they are otherwise short of funds for other expenses. Days of outsourcing to india, of burials, not for off, really. Hence the large church compounds with mini shrines in india, all over!

Already silly preachings and sermons against pagans are being outsourced to vily priests in kerala. day is not far off when lord parasuram decides that the god's own country he created with his divine axe could be axed back into the arabian sea. Only guruvayurappan, iyyappan, vadakkathappan and bhagavati ambal temples there are coming in the way, right now!

lands given to hindu temples are utilzed more productively, for housing the temple operatives, for lily and lotus ponds for rain harvesting, for flower gardens for flowers for temple poojas and decors, for cultivation of grains to be used for temple naivedyams, presentations to God, before distributions to all the poor who may come for worship each day. The scant rains we still get here and there in india today is onlky bec of these practices in hindu, jain temples and gurudwaras, where also who come get poories and potatoes. hindus have ideas and ideals, while all that chrslim anwar has is the propensity to call hindu professors idiots all the time!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 13, 2009 08:21 AM
11
Were on earth are we going to find the faithfull pawning land donated for charity bieng sold by its very gaurdians for a pittance.Why blame Modi,BJP or others.The very same happened with Mukeshs house in Mumbai.Yes people like seshadri or the doc from the USA are going have there take on the very nature of these properties.To abuse ones own office is nothing new.To defend such actions by cheats is disgusting.By dragging history is getting the nation no were.Whats that u want.Throw out all those who are alien to this nation.With every incident which is controversial the voices of intolerance are getting shriller.Economic growth and education hasnt had the positive effect on the psyche.Accountability is non exsistent.Campaign to spread disaccord is increasing.God help my country.
drharun
chennai, India
Sep 13, 2009 03:13 AM
10
Nice, detailed report. However, an historical angle is also important and the author does not omit it. Muslim rulers (aliens to Hindustan) took the land from the Hindu subjects and donated it to Muslim subjects (no doubt converts!). Simultaneously, Hindus were being taxed for being Hindu and their sacred books were being destroyed and their temples looted and often destroyed also.

These facts cannot be overlooked. Currently, the UPA government states and Communist ruled states, loot the Hindu temples under official cover and none of this money goes to the betterment of the temple or the pilgrims. In Andhra Pradesh thousands of acres of land were forcibly sold off to developers and even for the building of mosques and churches.

Clearly, something is wrong all round.
Dr. Vijaya Rajiva
Montreal, Canada
Sep 13, 2009 01:53 AM
9
Seshadri,

>> India's land is not meant to be mainlly for the outsourcing of burial grounds for chr and mosl arounbd the world.

What an idiotic comment! It is Indian citizens who are buried in India's burial grounds, not Christians and Muslims from around the world as your sick mind thinks.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Sep 12, 2009 10:14 PM
8
Dear Sir,

This is one of the best stories in recent times. This is well-researched & well-analysed piece covering most of the issues related to ill management of wakf properties across the country.
There is severe flaw in the system. Lack of the administrative support is one of the main reason behind such goons to take ownership of wakf properties.
Wakf board has no nails.

Thanks !
Faizan Haider Naqvi
New Delhi, India
Sep 12, 2009 09:32 PM
7
West bengal assembly speaker,Hasim abdul halim,was in the news few years ago regarding wakf properties.Would Saba care toinvestigate.Just remember he is a CPM strongman, andhe is a muslim. The bengal government looks the other way as it is a muslim problem. Actually,nopolitician in India ,whether hindu or muslim, cares about muslims. Hindus donot because they knowmuslims are illogicaland badtempered,and they donot wish tolose muslimvotes. Muslimpoliticians,on the other hand,wants tokeepthe muslims poor asthat would serve themwell.They can rule over the poor muslims. Either way,muslims are the loser. And untilthey stop being carriedover by the sermons of zakir naik,and similar people, even GOD cannot helpthem.
george
london, United Kingdom
Sep 12, 2009 09:26 PM
6
In UK,bangladeshi channels regularly run CHARITY programs for building mosques.Only a smallfraction goes to the mosque fund,the rest being distributed within the organisers themselves,mostly imams and hajis.It is the same everywhere, you can fool a muslim any time by invoking islam. Muslims are poor because they are illiterate,and obsessed with religion. Very rarely muslim journalists criticise muslims fortheir problems. Always it is the others who are to blame. In UK pakistani and bangladeshi children have poor acdemic results,and who to blame here,the british government of course. Ms.Saba naqvi ( bhowmick) should write more why muslims are so academically poor everywhere.
george
london, United Kingdom
Sep 12, 2009 07:57 PM
5
The author has done painstaking work to bring various cases of land grabbing. The waqf properties are donated by not so rich muslims, for the cause of poors. It is surprizing that the hard earned properties of the muslims are being looted with the connivance of Wakf employees with full impunity. It is surprising that there is no mechanism available to recover those properties which are already grabed wrongfuly and is known to everyone.

Wakf properties should be utilized only for the education and employment generation in the country.
Ali Naqi Desnavi
Bhopal, India
Sep 12, 2009 07:24 PM
4
aasti-vitte astu raajya-hreeh
[national; tax should fall on idle land mainly]
na-aagame vaa parigame!
[not much on hard-earned incomes, or wealth in circulation thro prouction, sale and consumption.

one reason why bangalore developed well and fast was the rule that those keep idle plots for more than three yrs were forced to sell off to others who might utilize it productively, for housing or industry

idle lands in the hands of trusts of all kinds, personal, families, temples, churches, wakf-boards, gurudwaras etc. should be uniformly micro-taxed all over the vcountry. one-hird each of such tax should go to centre, state and local body for utilization for development of infra-structure facilities. reduce tax on incomes, customs, sales, regns.

India's land is not meant to be mainlly for the outsourcing of burial grounds for chr and mosl arounbd the world, nor for buru=ying the toxic wastes from the developed countries.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 12, 2009 05:55 PM
3
Wakf lands were 'donated' by Muslim rulers who forcibly took land and wealth from the Hindus they conquered. Ill-gotten wealth also gets squandered in the end.
asha
delhi, India
Sep 12, 2009 05:45 PM
2
Sorry, but corruption is the biggest story in India today. So why should the Wakf be any different?

Reason this : if the religious followers are blind enough to believe in religion and all its strange 'beliefs', then surely they cannot see through the corruption of the Wakf leaders either?
Partha persistent spammer
chennai, India
Sep 12, 2009 05:03 PM
1
So what's new about it? Such things have become a norm.. who's going to bell the cat(s)??
Harsh Rai Puri
Bhopal, India
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