Sachar Committee Report
The Bogey Of Muslim Reservation
There have been demands for the entire Muslim community to be categorized as a backward class, ignoring the internal differences among Muslims -- exactly what the report probes by looking at the question of caste, which has long being dismissed by elite Muslims.
One of the important ways in which democracy is measured has to do with ways in which democratic societies treat their minorities. The democratic index of any society therefore, should not only encapsulate legal protection of minority rights but should also enable those conditions that facilitate the participation of minorities in public life. The Sachar Committee Report is one such document, which highlights that the Indian state has not kept its promise to its largest minority, the Muslims.

This is certainly not the only or the first instance when the Indian state has been reminded of dereliction of its duty towards Muslims. The Gopal Singh Committee Report, 1983, and the findings of the National Sample Survey Organisation (NSSO) from 1990s onwards have been grim reminders of the educational and economic conditions of Indian Muslims. Only time will tell if the Sachar Report will meet the same shelved fate as the Gopal Singh Report did.

However, given the enormous interest that this report generated in both the media and the public at large, one hopes that some policy decisions will be made on the basis of the report once the new government is sworn in. We saw some action through the PM’s fifteen-point program for minorities, the establishment of Ministry of Minority Affairs and talk of separate budgetary allocations for Muslims. Without sounding cynical, one hopes that such newfound sensitivity of the government outlasts the election results.

However, it is disconcerting to note that much of the debate since the publication of the Report has made the case that ‘Muslims as a whole’ are a marginalized community. In other words, the debate about the ‘Muslim condition in India’ has neglected the state of internal differences among the Indian Muslims. As a result, the debate on Sachar Committee has been silent about internal inequality among Muslims and consequently about the unequal access of various Muslim castes and classes to the state’s resources.

This debate has been adequately matched by a demand for Muslim reservation by a section of Muslim leadership. They argue that the data provided by the Sachar Report qualifies the entire Muslim community to be categorized as a backward class. It follows from this argument that, as has been the practice for ameliorating the socio-economic conditions of backward classes, a certain percentage be earmarked for Muslims in the state’s resources. Largely coming from upper caste Muslims, this demand is hardly new. Similar demands have been heard before even in the 1990s. The publication of the Sachar Committee Report has seen renewed articulation of these demands.

What is, however, different now is that the considerable media interest that the Report generated has created favourable conditions for widespread, and often sympathetic, dissemination of such a Muslim demand for a separate quota. Also the demand during the 1990s did not have any sound empirical study to back up the assertion of Muslim backwardness. Today, those who demand Muslim reservations have something to wave in their hands. They claim that Sachar Report has only confirmed what they had known for long.

A closer look at the Sachar Report, however, tells another story altogether. In fact the Sachar Report is one of the few documents which has brought out the internal differences within the Indian Muslims in much detail. The data presented in the Report resists any attempt to homogenize the Muslims as one backward mass of people. Rather, it points out that sociologically Muslims are varied and that there are layers of marginalisation within the Muslim society. One of the important dimensions along which Sachar Report probes the internal differences among Muslims is by looking at the question of caste, which has long being dismissed by elite Muslims as alien to Muslims despite increasing sociological evidence to the contrary. It is interesting to look at the findings of Sachar Committee on caste differences among Muslims and what it means to their location in the economic and educational sector.

The Report distinguishes four caste groups within the Indian Muslims:

  • Those claiming foreign descent such as the Saiyyids, Sheikhs, Pathans and Mughals

  • Those Muslims who are converts from the high caste Hindus

  • The middle caste converts whose occupation are considered ritually clean and

  • The converts from the erstwhile untouchable castes.

The Report then collapses these four divisions in two categories:

  • The Ashrafs and

  • The Ajlafs.

Ashrafs, which means ‘noble’, includes all Muslims who claim to be of foreign descent. It also includes converts from high caste Hindus. They are the upper caste Muslims in India.

The second category of Ajlafs, meaning degraded, comprises of ‘ritually clean’ occupational groups and low caste Hindu converts to Islam. They are the low Muslim castes of Ansaris, Butchers, etc and primarily make up the bulk of Muslim OBCs.

(It must be mentioned here that the Report, following the Census of 1901, also talks of another Muslim category called Arjal (which means of no use), who are coverts to Islam from ex-untouchable castes but still continue to follow ‘unclean’ occupations. However, for the purpose of analysis and also because the population of Arjal Muslims is very low, the Report clubs it together with the Ajlafs.)

Chapter X of the Sachar Report gives the position of Muslim OBCs and compares its socio-economic profile with that of the upper caste Muslims or General Muslims. Let us look at some of the comparative findings:

Education: The literacy rate of Muslim OBC is 62 percent, which compares unfavourably with General Muslims at 66 percent and Hindu OBC at 65 percent. Thus there are more number of illiterates within the Muslim OBC category as compared to the other two. Similarly General Muslims by far outnumber Muslim OBCs in terms of access to higher education.

Employment and Economy: 9.2 percent Muslim OBCs are unemployed as compared 7.7 percent of General Muslims and 7.5 percent Hindu OBCs, thus making it the highest category in terms of unemployment. In both rural and urban areas, unemployment rate is highest for Muslim OBC. In terms of their respective shares in formal sector, the Muslim OBCs are at a mere 3.4 percent, while General Muslim are at 6percent in rural areas. For the urban areas the figures read 3.5 percent and 7 percent respectively. The marginalized situation of Muslim OBCs is also reflected in the fact that a much smaller proportion of worker in this category are engaged in regular wage/salaried jobs, especially in the urban areas. Thus while only 20.4 percent Muslim OBCs are employed in regular wage/salaried jobs, the figures for General Muslims are 31.2 percent and it is 36.4 percent for Hindu OBCs. It is noteworthy that Muslim OBC employees receive salaries that are significantly lower than General Muslims and Hindu OBC. The Report also points out that Muslim OBCs are poorer than General Muslims and that their monthly per capita expenditure is the least among all the three categories. Moreover, within the Muslims, a larger percentage of Muslim OBCs fall in the low-income category as compared to General Muslims.

Representation: In public employment, except for central security agencies, Muslim OBCs lag behind General Muslims and Hindu OBCs. Thus in Railways there are 4.5 percent General Muslims as compared to mere 0.4 percent Muslim OBCs. In Central Public Sector Undertakings, Muslim OBCs similarly have a meager presence of 0.6 percent while General Muslims comprise 2.7 percent of the workforce. And in universities, in both teaching and non-teaching staff the General Muslims are far ahead than OBC Muslims. Poor representation of Muslims in public employment has been touted as one of the main reasons for demanding Muslim reservation. It is important to recognize, however, that Muslim OBCs are much more marginalized than the General Muslims. Moreover, as the Report itself points out, it is not just Muslims, but even Hindu OBCs are under-represented, although it rightly points out that Muslim OBCs are nearly absent from the higher echelons of public services.

The above facts culled from the Report makes it amply clear that there are different levels of marginalization within the Muslim community. Muslim OBCs are much more marginalized as compared to General Muslims as well Hindu OBCs. But the extent of Muslim OBC deprivation is perhaps not fully captured by the Sachar Report due to its own methodological limitations. According to the Report, based on 61st round of NSS survey, Muslim OBCs account for 41 percent of the total Muslim population while General Muslims are 51 percent. However, this cannot be considered accurate since the Report itself makes it clear the above calculation is based on self reporting data and hence is contingent upon a number of factors, more importantly on the self perception of the respondent. It is for this reason that the percentage of OBCs has fluctuated from 32 percent in 1999-2000 to the present level of 41 percent in 2004.

There are some genuine problems with this figure of 41 percent. For one it is nearly 10 percent short of the Mandal Commission estimate. Moreover, if one looks closely at the tables provided by the Sachar Report, it is clear that in two states having considerable Muslim population -- Bengal and Assam -- the OBC Muslim population is only 3 percent of the states’ total Muslim population. This is simply inconceivable. Let’s take the case of Bengal as an example. Studies have shown that Muslim presence in this region has been a result of conversions from low caste Hindus. Over a period of time, the process of Ashrafization, akin to Sanskritization among Hindus, has seen many of these low Muslim castes taking on caste titles of upper Muslim castes. The most common group to which Ashrafizing low Muslim castes joined was the Sheikhs, making this social category very numerous and fluid. Thus in the Census of 1872, the total Muslim population of Bengal was 17.6 million, out of which only 232,189 were returned as Sheikhs. However, by 1901, out of a total Muslim population of over 21.5 million, 19.5 million were returned as Sheikhs! Partly due to the way the upper caste Muslims have been defined in the Sachar Report, the caste of Sheikhs has been included among the category called General Muslims. This means that numerous low caste Muslims are treated in the Report as belonging to upper caste or General Muslim category. It is for this reason that OBC Muslims in Bengal constitute only 3 percent of Muslim population while in reality they would constitute the overwhelming majority of Muslim population in Bengal.

And this is not the case in Bengal alone. Sociological common sense regards that lower caste Muslims or the Ajlafs constitute roughly 75-80 percent of the total Muslim population in India, an estimate which is also backed by various OBC organizations. Now with this ratio in mind, if we revisit the data provided by the Sachar Report, it becomes clear that the deprivation levels of Muslim OBCs far exceed that compiled by Sachar Report. Thus with this ratio in mind, poverty, unemployment, etc will be more acute for the lower caste Muslims. And this is just one aspect of the problem. The other is that the category of General Muslims will not appear as under-represented and deprived as it is made out to be by some Muslim intellectuals and politicians. If one computes the Ajlaf-Ashraf distribution at the ratio of 80:20 percent, then the Ashrafs/General Muslims would roughly comprise 4.5 percent of the population of the country. And it becomes amply clear that in terms of representation in public sector etc., they are not as marginalized as they appear at first sight in the Report. The real story of Sachar Report then is not that Muslims as a whole are marginalized but that OBC Muslims are the most deprived and under-represented category when compared to Hindu OBCs and General Muslims.

Ironically enough then, the Report which is one of the few documents which brings out internal caste differentiation among Indian Muslims, is being cited to bolster claims of Muslim reservation. Primarily driven by the Ashraf elite, such a demand of Muslim reservation rests on bogus claims that hardly get substantiated through the data present in the Sachar Report. If the demand of Muslim reservation is met due to political exigencies, then a handful of well-placed Muslims will corner all the benefits to the detriment of Muslim OBCs. Moreover, there is a real danger that the gains that have accrued to certain OBC Muslim castes through their inclusion in the Mandal Commission list will be nullified in the long run.

The question then is: What can be done to ameliorate the conditions of low caste Muslims? It is a canard spread by the elite Muslims that being classified as OBCs hasn’t helped the lower caste Muslims at all. On the contrary, it is only through their inclusion in the OBC category that we are able to see even the marginal presence of Ajlaf Muslims in public representation. But there is a need to strengthen this process. The Sachar Report makes it amply clear that it is very difficult for Muslim OBCs to compete with their Hindu counterparts. According to their own estimates, Muslim OBCs comprise 15 percent of the total OBC population (although the percentage is much higher) of the country, which is nowhere reflected in terms of their representation. There is therefore an urgent need to think of strategies that may lead to the betterment of socio-economic conditions of the most deprived section of Muslims.

In terms of existing policy framework, two things can be done. The first is to do away with the existing anomalies in the OBC lists both at the Central and the state levels. According to the Sachar Report, there are a number of Muslim castes, which have not been included in the central list. For example in Madhya Pradesh, 10 Muslim castes have not been included in the Central OBC list, in Bihar 17 such castes have not been included and so on. Moreover, there are also various low Muslim castes whose names do not figure either in the central or the state list. In Gujarat, for example, the People of India project found 85 Muslim communities out of which 76 were non-Ashrafs. However, in the Central list only 22 have been included while in the state list only 27 groups are included. Similarly in Bihar and Uttar Pradesh there are a number of Ajlaf groups who have been left out of the purview of affirmative action. Inclusion of such groups will go a long way in ameliorating the present pitiable condition of Muslim OBCs.

The second measure, which should be pursued simultaneously with the first, should consider bi-furcating the Central OBC list into OBC and MBC (Most Backward Classes) category, as is the practice in many states like Bihar. After empirically verifying the extent of deprivation of particular Muslim castes within the overall OBC quota, they can be placed in the MBC list, thus giving them a more level playing field.

 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Apr 24, 2009 12:00 AM
44
It is high time we stop worrying about the subjects in terms of caste, relegion etc etc. The Policy of Indian state should be very simple. No reservations for anybody Scholarships for anybody disadvantaged economically. One single education for all. No relegious education. Single law across India for all. That is the only way we can work as a natin. Rest all is just a division based one something or the other.
vibhaas
Doha, qatar
Apr 24, 2009 12:00 AM
43
Ghai,

>> It is not the Congress but the Muslims themselves have marignalised themselves.They trusted every mulla and every Secu Party but never trusted their common sense !

Everybody is an expert on Muslims!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Apr 23, 2009 12:00 AM
42
It is not the Congress but the Muslims themselves have marignalised themselves.They trusted every mulla and every Secu Party but never trusted their common sense !
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Apr 23, 2009 12:00 AM
41
"“Congress-led governments in the state and at the Centre have marginalized Muslims and used us as votebanks. Even after three years of the blast that claimed the life of my son, justice has not been done...there has been another blast and a chargesheet has been filed within three months, but what about the previous blast?”


http://www.indianexpres...gainst-congncp/450276/0


Once again Muslims will be forced by the Mullas and Maulvies to Vote for the Congress as they have done for the last six decades.But they will not think of taking two steps towrds the BJP .

a k ghai
mumbai, India
Apr 23, 2009 12:00 AM
40
Soundarya
Hyderabad, India
Apr 23, 2009 12:00 AM
39
Part 2 : " Indian Express "Muslim anger, Malegaon’s new poll map work against Cong-NCP

Rakshit Sonawane

Malegaon: Three years ago, when Sonia Gandhi visited the Muslim-dominated textile town of Malegaon in Maharashtra after serial bomb blasts killed 37 worshippers at a local mosque, Shafiq Mohammed Salim angrily confronted her about the lack of a good hospital that could have saved more lives after the attack .

He would probably raise his voice all over again if the Congress president made another trip to the town today, a day before it goes to vote. Gandhi had promised a 200-bed hospital for


Malegaon in 2001 in the aftermath of communal riots there. Despite the reminder in 2006 — and another bomb attack in 2008 — the hospital is yet to see the light of day.


“I told her one of the major deficiencies here is inadequate health care and that a good hospital would have saved many lives,” says the convent-educated pharmacist, who lost his 18-year-old son and 17-year-old nephew in the 2006 blasts. Three years on, he continues to fume over what he says is the “neglect of Muslims” by the Congress.

“Congress-led governments in the state and at the Centre have marginalized Muslims and used us as votebanks. Even after three years of the blast that claimed the life of my son, justice has not been done...there has been another blast and a chargesheet has been filed within three months, but what about the previous blast?”


Salim’s is not a lone voice. Anger against Maharashtra’s secular ruling coalition of the Congress and the NCP is a common refrain across this communally sensitive town and is expected to influence the outcome of the polls in Dhule constituency, of which Malegaon is now a part.


“They only come to us when they need votes,” claims Nisar Ahmed, another Malegaon resident who lost his son Azhar in the 2008 blast. “All parties are alike...nobody cares for us. After the incident, we had a lot of visitors promising us all sorts of things, but they have all vanished,” he said and claimed that even Samajwadi Party leader Abu Azmi had announced that his party would distribute compensation but did not.


While voters talk of terror, the plight of Muslims and the chargesheeting of suspected Hindu extremists for last year’s blast, these hardly figure on the agenda of either the Congress or the BJP candidate for the Dhule seat. " cntd
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Apr 23, 2009 12:00 AM
38
Indian Express "Muslim anger, Malegaon’s new poll map work against Cong-NCP

Rakshit Sonawane

Malegaon: Three years ago, when Sonia Gandhi visited the Muslim-dominated textile town of Malegaon in Maharashtra after serial bomb blasts killed 37 worshippers at a local mosque, Shafiq Mohammed Salim angrily confronted her about the lack of a good hospital that could have saved more lives after the attack .

He would probably raise his voice all over again if the Congress president made another trip to the town today, a day before it goes to vote. Gandhi had promised a 200-bed hospital for


Malegaon in 2001 in the aftermath of communal riots there. Despite the reminder in 2006 — and another bomb attack in 2008 — the hospital is yet to see the light of day.


“I told her one of the major deficiencies here is inadequate health care and that a good hospital would have saved many lives,” says the convent-educated pharmacist, who lost his 18-year-old son and 17-year-old nephew in the 2006 blasts. Three years on, he continues to fume over what he says is the “neglect of Muslims” by the Congress.

“Congress-led governments in the state and at the Centre have marginalized Muslims and used us as votebanks. Even after three years of the blast that claimed the life of my son, justice has not been done...there has been another blast and a chargesheet has been filed within three months, but what about the previous blast?”


Salim’s is not a lone voice. Anger against Maharashtra’s secular ruling coalition of the Congress and the NCP is a common refrain across this communally sensitive town and is expected to influence the outcome of the polls in Dhule constituency, of which Malegaon is now a part.


“They only come to us when they need votes,” claims Nisar Ahmed, another Malegaon resident who lost his son Azhar in the 2008 blast. “All parties are alike...nobody cares for us. After the incident, we had a lot of visitors promising us all sorts of things, but they have all vanished,” he said and claimed that even Samajwadi Party leader Abu Azmi had announced that his party would distribute compensation but did not.


While voters talk of terror, the plight of Muslims and the chargesheeting of suspected Hindu extremists for last year’s blast, these hardly figure on the agenda of either the Congress or the BJP candidate for the Dhule seat. " cntd
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Apr 23, 2009 12:00 AM
37
I accept that India as a country must take trouble to its minorities. As long as we do not do something across the board. For instance, muslims in UP are behind the others in literacy, so giving them a preference is OK, with limitations. However, the muslims in Kerala and Tamil Nadu are ahead of the others in literacy and should not get any. Also, mechanisms must be available to check the results and make corrections and not sign something into a law which is never checked due to voting. The leaders of any group can ask for privileges but must try to get out of it. Granted that muslims are behind the others in literacy, but this is due to a combination of reasons. These include society, family, and mistreatment. For instance, the muslims in Bangalore largely belong to the trader class and do not wish to have higher education (even college). In fact, the families dissuade the children from going to college. The leaders must do their best to prevent such practices. It is important for India as a country to bring all of its people to the same level, otherwise we will end up having divisions in society similar to Pakistan where the Punjabis have everything and rest have nothing. However, the mechanisms that we put in place must have checks and balances.
Prakash
San Francisco, United States
Apr 22, 2009 12:00 AM
36
And don't forget StopperLax, your Pitamah, LALLOO ADVANI is THE ORIGINAL KAMZORI LAL of India and possible a world champion of a PERVERSE KIND.
Mohan Awara
New Delhi, India
Apr 22, 2009 12:00 AM
35
StopperLax backtracks. This is the typical Sanghi strategy. As long as Tuchhpatra's leakage of the alleged SIT report served their purpose they all went overboard. Now that their lie is nailed, they become abusive in the crudest possible manners these Fasci-Pseudo-Hindus in the payroll of the joint command of the Swati Talibans and the Nagpuriya Swayamsevaks.
Mohan Awara
New Delhi, India
Apr 22, 2009 12:00 AM
34
LALLOO ADVANI is the ORIGINAL KAMZORI LAL of the contemporary Indian politics.
Mohan Awara
New Delhi, India
Apr 22, 2009 12:00 AM
33
2clevr/haf Hhehha the hazy mirror, the quintessential Fasci-Pseudo-Hindu in the payroll of the joint command of the Swati Talibans and the Nagpuriya Swayamsevaks (after being so humiliatingly denied an extension of services at the IIT) - So what happens now to all the Sanghis - the congenital liars and evil faces - now that the SIT has come out in the open to clearly slam reports that the Gujarat riot victims were tutored to give false evidence or exaggerate the situations by the activists and organizations helping the victims. Will Tuchhapatra now be sacked by the TOI? Will Bhartiya, who called Tessta Seetalvad a 'slut' hide for cover? Will Sheshadri the face reader, who certified that Teesta was evil, eat his words?
Mohan Awara
New Delhi, India
Apr 22, 2009 12:00 AM
32
This is comical. The author writes "We saw some action through the PM’s fifteen-point program for minorities, the establishment of Ministry of Minority Affairs and talk of separate ..."

So I opened the link to see what the PM's 15 point pgm was. It lists out a few things and then there is the background info which reads

"The existing 15 Point Programme for the Welfare of minorities was formulated in May, 1983. It covered 15 different aspects for action, commonly known as the "Prime Minister’s 15-Point Programme for the Welfare of Minorities". These points were reiterated by the then Prime Minister, Shri Rajiv Gandhi, in his letter dated August 28th, 1985 addressed to all Chief Ministers"

The 15 point farce was started by Indira Gandhi. Who it might be remembered, introduced a 20 point pgm during the Emergency. That point pgm, as will be recalled by every grateful citizen, has made India the Super power it is now.

Indira simply repeats the 20 point trick and introduces the 15 pt pgm. 26 years have passed. And the same things are repeated. The same "solutions" are proposed. I am really surprised at the stupidity of the people who believe this will be of any help. Who are the idiots believing something will happen now that has not happened in 26 years?

There is one benefit though. In another 25 years, it is reasonable to expect Priyanka's kid will be Congress head(assuming Congress is still there). He can use the same 15 points to show his compassion for minorities . He will have the additional benefit of saying "My grand mother Indiramma announced 15 pgm"....................
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Apr 22, 2009 12:00 AM
31
Ganesan:>>"A family can benefit from reservation(assuming it does) only once. It should not be extended to kids, grand kids etc".

In full agreement with you. It will help the benefit [if it is really a benefit and not a dose for complacency-build-up, affecting hard-work habits], to spread over a large number of families of the different caste-creed groups, over a short time.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Apr 22, 2009 12:00 AM
30
Before discussing the bogye of muslim reservation, we should discuss the bogey or otherwise of reservation in general. Is there a study that tabulates the effects of reservation over the last 60 years? Has it been really useful? has it really helped the people it was supposed to help?

And why should reservation be extended to generations? A family can benefit from reservation(assuming it does) only once. It should not be extended to kids, grand kids etc.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Apr 22, 2009 12:00 AM
29
>>imagine if the hindus were like the muslims in pakistan. it is time for introspection.

I'm imagining if the Muslims in Pakistan were like the Hindus.....this 'Rants and Raves' of Outlook would have titled as "Poet and Poetries", based on themes-

peace
bliss
&
glees
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Apr 22, 2009 12:00 AM
28
an banerjee

its amazeing that there is no opposition to
fanatical islam.

where are the liberal muslims. i presume they
feel helpless against the vast number of fanatics
in their country.

pakistan has had it.

indian muslims i presume watch whats going on
the other side. there seems to be no response from the,except that they claim they are seculars,and fighting hindutwa.

imagine if the hindus were like the muslims in pakistan. it is time for introspection.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Apr 21, 2009 12:00 AM
27
In contrast to Official India's response to muslims. Official Pakistan's response non-muslims


http://www.dawn.com/wps...nalty-for-blasphemy-szh


Maybe India should pass a similar law on blasphemy against Islam.
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
Apr 21, 2009 12:00 AM
26
mfr

you have made a very reasoned explanation of the logic behind dalit reservation.

they suffer from bias plus poverty.in times of fiscal restraints they deserve first place.

whe the state has more resources,then all the deserveing poor should be helped.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Apr 21, 2009 12:00 AM
25

Part 1 of 2

The Principle of Reservation and its intent as envisaged by the founding fathers was to provide a correction and relief to downtrodden people who were trapped and exploited for centuries under the rigid and blatantly unfair caste system prevalent in the Hindu society, whereby these backward caste sections would be supported and brought up to get an equal opportunity (in the true sense) to participate in the national development. This is a measure taken by a sensitive, sympathetic and a ‘truly welfare oriented' society which admits to its wrongs of the past and accepts to sacrifice something from its present to address and correct the effects of the past atrocities and long term injustice and to achieve a truly inclusive, integrated, balanced and a fair social order.

This and this alone should be the guiding and operating principle on which all reservations be based. It must be clarified that Reservation is NOT a normal social welfare or a socialist measure but is a specific mechanism customized to address a very specific circumstance which was peculiar to the Indian society

Unfortunately, this principle has got somewhat lost and corrupted over the years and now, reservation is being demanded not on the above basis but on the basis of the political muscle of groups who are large in numbers and who are forcing the state to allocate inordinate reservation benefits to them which are in no way justified in accordance with the original principle. After wresting such benefits, the groups’ political (vote bank) clout sustains their undeserved reserved status.

Evidence of this is there for all to witness in the Gujjar agitation in Rajasthan. Also, I think that the enquiry commissions set up to look into this matter like the Mandal Commission for instance did not fully qualify reservations according to the above principle but also took into consideration the living standards, education and status of the present day communities to make its recommendations.

End of Part 1 of 2
Muslim for Reform
Nashik, India
Apr 21, 2009 12:00 AM
24

Part 2 of 2

Such corruption and abuse of reservation is detrimental to its idea in the long run and the ensuing un-viability and unfairness will cause a mass reaction building up against it which could end up discarding the entire provision of reservation and deprive the truly deserving sections of an important tool and mechanism to ensure their equal participation in national life. Agitation against reservations had already commence in the eighties in Gujarat and since then, we have witnessed widespread anti-reservation stirs across the country.

Coming to the issue of reservation for Muslims, it looks to be unjustified when checked against the principle mentioned above. Muslims did not have any rigid caste system in place. Any strict restrictions were not imposed, participation was open to the majority, education, entry to places of worship and setting up living quarters within the city was allowed for all. In view of these, any exploitation and undue restrictions could not be said to be in place to justify any provision of reservation to this section of society. Sachar commission also reports the present day status and living standard of the Muslims, which as mentioned before is not a basis on which reservations may be based.

Therefore, reservation for Muslims is unjustified and by not providing it to them, the society and the state cannot be deemed to be unfair to the Muslims; however, if the present situation is allowed to continue in which we find that the principle of reservation is continually corrupted and abused whereby undeserving sections of the society avail of is benefits and with the continuously expanding sphere of the social sections gaining reserved benefits, the Muslims and the other unavailing groups can rightly claim injustice to be meted out to them and demands for correction in one way or other will be sure to arise.

The state should ensure that reservation benefits are accorded strictly in line with its true intent and its beneficiaries be kept to the minimum possible so that this remarkable mechanism endures, is effective in its mission, does not cause much distress and imbalance and its adverse effects on the principle of merit be kept to the minimum.

End of Part 2 of 2
Muslim for Reform
Nashik, India
Apr 20, 2009 12:00 AM
23
Why to give 10-15% reservation to muslims? Better to give 10-15% reservation to Hindus. Rest for Muslims & Chrstns.
Devendra Patel
Ahmedabad, India
Apr 20, 2009 12:00 AM
22
VIVEK CHATTERJEE Sob;

Who razed 30,000 temples of Hindus ?
I know you are a muslim pig hiding behind a hindu name.

Mrs Bhanumati
Jhansi, UP, India, India
Apr 20, 2009 12:00 AM
21
VIVEK CHATTERJEE Sob;

Who raised 30,000 temples of Hindus ?
I know you are a muslim hiding behind a hindu name.

Mrs Bhanumati
Jhansi, UP, India, India
Apr 20, 2009 12:00 AM
20
You guys are bating for muslims but TOI reported today that Muslim Police officers were leaking information to Pakistan during the operation of 11/26. >>Bhanumati

The article does not categorically name any person. It could be Hindu officers too. By the way, in that scenario, what would you do:strip and dance naked?
Vivek Chatterjee
Calcutta, India
Apr 20, 2009 12:00 AM
19
VIVEK CHATTERJEE Sob;

Who raised 30,000 temples of Hindus ?
I know you are a muslim hiding behind a hindu name.

You muslim pig should be packed to Pakistan.
You bengali babu commies who are chinese agents do not deserve to live in India.
Mrs Bhanumati
Jhansi, UP, India, India
Apr 20, 2009 12:00 AM
18
MMS said he can't match the capability of Advani then why the heck is being nominated for PM's post ?>Bhanumati

MMS cannot match Advani and that is in macabre nature. This scum called Advani, was hugely responsible for the Babri mosque demoltion and the subsequent riots that claimed hundreds of lives.
Vivek Chatterjee
Calcutta, India
Apr 20, 2009 12:00 AM
17
I was invited on a forum to debate threat of islam to humanity.
Almost everyone was agreed that Kooran is a book of terrorists and majority of muslims (not all) are inborn terrorists.


Mrs Bhanumati
Jhansi, UP, India, India
Apr 20, 2009 12:00 AM
16
MMS and his Congress government is sowing the seeds of another Pakistan. Muslims wants everything by reservation without fighting on merit with others.
President, Vice President, Defense Minister, Congress President, and PMs post are being offered to minority defying merit.
MMS said he can't match the capability of Advani then why the heck is being nominated for PM's post ?
MMS was nominated to appease Sikh minority of Punjab and not because of his capability.

Mrs Bhanumati
Jhansi, UP, India, India
Apr 20, 2009 12:00 AM
15
Congressi leader Jinnah and Gandhi created Pakistan. It happened because 38% muslims were in undivided India. 35% in Police.

Congress is resurrecting the Ghost of Jinnah and Gandhi once again to Push Muslims in Police and Defense by reservation so direct actions call of Jinnah is repeated once again.

Remember MMS and Sonia have already become older and enjoyed the power due to muslim votes but our new generation will be wiped out the way 45 lakhs lost their lives in 1946-47.

Let us not forget that after demolition of Babri Muslims MPs belonging secular outfits were chanting Pakistan Zindabaad and Hindustan Murdabaad in the Parliamnent. Muslims MPs were crying to balkanise India into thousands of pieces. This whole episode were aired on TV channels.

Islamic seculars have weak memory.

Let us not forget that Pakistan was created for Masjids and Madrassas of Muslims and as a thumb of rule all masjids should have been demolished in 1947 itself so that this dispute could not have been arised in its first place.

Muslims got Pakistan for their masjids and madrassas. They should allow us to live in peace with our own temples.

Remember Indian muslims outside india always mix and lives with Pakistani muslims and never mix with Indians. I have seen this during my Europe and other foreign country tours.

Babri was a sign of slavery and black spot on hindus. 30,000 hindus had been raised and islamic seculars are still singing the tune of Babri for Muslim votes.

MMS call himself as Doctor but took india into dark ages. He claim his achievement of Nuclear deal but he opposed Nuclear test of BJP in 1998. For congress idiots I would inform that nuclear device can never be made without at least 6-7 actual tests.
Pokhran of 1974 never helped India to make a full fledged nuclear device.

It was BJP who declared and sactioned Moon Mission and word Chandrayaan was coined by BJP.

Mrs Bhanumati
Jhansi, UP, India, India
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
14
Islam claims to be a caste less religion, then how can there be Other Backward Caste- OBC amongst Muslims???

Even if 90% of the 16 Crore Indian Muslims are poor, it would be only 14.4 Crore MUSLIM POOR while if even 20% of the 85 crore Hindus are poor there would be 17 Core HINDU POOR. Statistically, 90% to 20% may seem a huge discrimination against Muslims but factually there would be MORE HINDUS POOR THAN MUSLIMS POOR IN INDIA.

As already brought out by many readers, the Muslims are alone responsible for their backwardness, especially as they have been ruling substantial part of India for more than 900 years, till 1947.
Akil
Bangalore, India
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
13
BH:>>"Your suggestion is quite in the right direction"

thank you for the concurrence.

the problem starts with the politcizn of education, in india.

when we reached washington’s aldorf astoria in 1959, as a group of technical scholars for p-g, several senior US-educators addressed us. Main point was that, when an oxford or harward or IIT is to be started, get the top experts in the field as profs, leave it to them to build them up properly! Same happens in Germany, UK or singapore. Three months as visiting prof in cranfield, england, I didnt see the VC at all!. He just got the govt grants, let the faculty run the educ.

No 'educ-minister' at all in most developed countries, unlike in india and its states, where the polits are concentrating only on the castes of the VCs, faculty, students, not the contents of what is taught or learnt!

In such a system of ours, no linkages betw higher educ and school educ also. Kalam is a strange exception of a senior national scientist inviting himself to schools. Otherwise, head-mistresses of schools behave like VCs, real VCs operate as agents of vile politicians!.

National Educ Commission, with all the country's nobel laurettes and MNC-CEOs in it, should be handed over the advisory mgmt of the country's educ, pushing polits away. good linkages with higher educ and school educ. Strong inspection systems. Govts should give grants and stay off.
Teachers, faculty, selected purely on subject competance should run all educ institutions from nurseries to universities. Very strong inspection system, preferably by retired defence officers whose nationalism cannot be doubted, should ennsure that educ is not compromised by the commercial motives of 'correspondents', the conv motives of church or mullahs or the political motives of state-appointed VCs and directors.

When I was in cranfied as visiting prof, I noticed something strange. There was a notification that someone selected as just a ‘senior-lect’ will join 3 months later. Anyone feeling he or she is better qualified could appeal, in the mean time! No wonder the western world takes all nobel prizes, while, in india, teachers fry their students to death in delhi's heat!

God save india's educ system! Will He? Perhaps He may just prefer to just wash away this country into the indian ocean and forget about it!.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
12
faruki

how about the flogging of teen age girls in pakistan. the burial of 5 women in balochistan.

dont play little lord fauntelroy in this forum.

you should be deported to pakistan, and get
a reality check of islam and fellow muslims.

after one week you will be crying uncle.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
11
Seshadri,

>> God save the kids of india from their raakshasic teachers!

Corporal punishment should be completely banned in our schools, and any teacher practising it must be subject to immediate dismissal and a police charge.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
10
A_P:

It seems to me that, given the relatively low salaries, the schools of the country are attracting the least competant and cultured people as the teachers. In my childhood, schools and their operations were strictly watched and sterned controlled by 'District Education Officers'. Now, schools have multiplied, watch over them has come down miserably. Educ ministers usually the least competant!

All retired colonels and above of the army should be assigned the jobs of strict supervision over some 50 schools each, for some additional emoluments. even their unannounced visits once a month will put some fear of punishment in the minds of reckless teachers. Parents associations must get stronger and more assertive. God save the kids of india from their raakshasic teachers!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
9
Seshadri,

>>>> "Corporal punishment kills Delhi schoolgirl"
>> The cruel teacher concerned must be shot.

New Delhi : The news of 11-year-old schoolgirl Shano Khan succumbing to her injuries Friday after being beaten and punished by her teacher sent shock waves across all sections of society. But this is not an isolated incident as several students have either been humiliated or subjected to harsh punishment in school in the recent past.

On Sep 30, 2007 a kindergarten girl student of Star Shine Public School in west Delhi was asked to strip in front of the class as a punishment for not doing her homework.

On March 18, 2008, 10 children were injured when a teacher in their municipal school in Ashok Nagar in east Delhi ran amok with his rod, unable to control his anger at the pandemonium created while a meal was being served.

The children were rushed to hospital with injuries on their head, arms and legs but six were sent home after being treated and observed for a while.

On Feb 21, 2008, Pradeep Kumar, a teacher of the Municipal Corporation of Delhi (MCD) school in Metro Vihar of Narela beat up two Class 5 students, Anil and Narendra, with a stick when they were found fighting with each other. Anil sustained minor injuries on his back and head, while Narendra was hit on his face.

On March 27, 2008, a 15-year-old girl succumbed to her injuries after she slipped into coma Jan 7 as she was allegedly hit by a male teacher for refusing his private tuition.

On April 17, Shano Khan died after she slipped into a coma Wednesday. Her class teacher in the Municipal Corporation of Delhi (MCD) primary school in Narela in north Delhi had beaten her and made her stand in the sun for more than an hour for failing to recite the alphabet.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
8
Reservation for Ajalaf muslim already exists.. One of my muslim friend had availed it so I know what I am talking about
Rahul
Delhi, India
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
7
With the kind of reservationist politicians we have had after undependance, the whole country has become uniformly 'backward'. 100% reservations for backward all-indians will be the correct procedure to follow.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
6
News>>"Corporal punishment kills Delhi schoolgirl"

The cruel teacher concerned must be shot by a firing squad in public view under the india gate, as stern warning against demonism among teachers. Perhaps, teachers for primary schools should be cleared by psychiatrists for cruel tendencies, before appointments are made. Matter must be taken very seriously.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
5
Ashrafs / Ajlafs / caste system amongst the believers ?

Wait for the succulars to blame menausmriti & hindus for it , even in Arabia ! ( where manu never went to spread his smriti )
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
4
Reservations for the whole Muslim community is not a viable idea. A more discriminating method to identify deprived Muslims, similar to the one used to identify the deprived Hindus currently benefitting from reservations, is needed.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
3
Muslims created their own problems- first by demanding the creation of a separate Muslim Nation exclusively for themselves called Pakistan, and then reneging on the deal, with more than two-fifths of them staying back in Hindustan.
Secondly, they refused to become "Indianized"- they send their children to madrassas for Koranic studies, only, and then talk of neglect.
Fatc is, Muslims do not identify with India or "Indianess"- their names are Arab! Their outlook is Arab! They not merely despise their Indian forebears, they despise it- they are Arabs! The Islamic republic of Pakistan is still there for them. But is there a single Hindu nation anywhere in this here God's earth for Hindus to go? None! Yet there are over thirty official Islamic nations".
Bodh
Springfield, United States
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
2
1234bharat,

>> The Campaign to defame Hindu Nationalism (ISBN 0595435491-available on amazon)

If 'Hindu Nationalism' falls short of a humanist democracy, it defames itself. No need of any specially designed 'campaign'.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Apr 18, 2009 12:00 AM
1
This article is extremely misleading as it does not mention the statistics for SC/ST s who are really the underprivileged in our society. Muslims fare far better than the Sc/St in terms of both education nad income levels. Therefore to infer that Musilims whether backward or not are discriminated is wrong. Please read the chapter"Analysing the Sachar Report" from a book Lies,lies and More Lies. The Campaign to defame Hindu Nationalism (ISBN 0595435491-available on amazon)
1234bharat
nY, United States
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