Illustration by Sorit
opinion
Exploding Cherries
Where is the backlash of the Pakistani cricket fanatic?
terrorism
A larger theme unites 26/11, the BDR mutiny and Lahore terror
Pranay Sharma
pakistan
In Pakistan too, the foreign hand story meets with scorn
Amir Mir
pakistan
Gujral made RAW wind up covert-action capabilities abroad
Saikat Datta
bangladesh
The mutiny in the Bangladesh Rifles raises larger questions
Julfikar Ali Manik, Nadeem Qadir
Opinion
If politics can't stanch the flow of terror, cricket will be a collateral casualty
Pradeep Magazine
sri lanka
Instinctive self-preservation has elbowed out cricketing well-being in a shocked Sri Lanka
Amantha Perera
Cricket legend and self-appointed cheerleader for the Taliban, Imran Khan, told an Australian TV channel in October that militants would never attack a cricket match or cricketers in his country because Pakistanis love cricket too much. I am not sure where Imran Khan got the impression that militants respect people's favourite pastime. It might have something to do with the Pakistani cricketer's newfound love for orthodox Islam. Some of our star players like Inzamam-ul-Haq, Mohammed Yousuf and Shahid Afridi are now full-time preachers and part-time cricketers. On the crease, some of the juniors even mutter verses from the Quran before facing a fast bowler. Khan may have concluded that the militants would spare their brothers in faith after seeing their piety on the pitch. He forgot about the visiting teams, for whom cricket might be their only religion.

A tragic and terrifying attack like the one that happened in Lahore this week is no time to remind celebrities how naive they can be in their public pronouncements. Imran Khan is one of the many mainstream politicians, commentators and socialites in Pakistan who seem to think that if they slip in a nice word about militants, they will reciprocate by showing restraint, or at least not attack the only cricket team in the world brave and friendly enough to visit Pakistan during the past 14 months.

Imran Khan had made another prediction in his interview. "There will be a severe backlash against the militants if they attacked cricketers, because Pakistanis love their cricketers too much."

Pakistanis also have some other well-documented passions: they love to send their children to the best schools they can afford, they are mad about pop music, and they like to also indulge in the occasional dance routine.

During the past few months, militants have shown no respect for any of these popular pastimes either. There was no backlash when more than 200 schools were demolished by the Taliban in the Swat valley. There was not a squeak of protest when more than 500 music shops were shut down in Mingora, the main town in the valley. There were only murmurs of horror when a dancer named Shabana was dragged into the city square and killed. ("Don't slit my throat, just shoot me," Shabana was reported to have said.) Intellectuals like Imran Khan who are remarkably, and rightly I must add, articulate when it comes to lecturing America about its foreign policy, and documenting Israeli atrocities in Gaza, did not utter the word 'dancer' or 'Shabana' because they thought it might infuriate the militants.

I was desperately hoping that Imran Khan's prediction about a popular backlash would turn out to be true this time. A lapsed cricket fan myself, I do realise the kind of demented emotions it evokes amongst otherwise sensible people in the country. As the celebrated Pakistani novelist Kamila Shamsie puts it, "Cricket is front and centre, heart and soul, of the 'alternative narrative' of Pakistan." But this story isn't just about destruction and terror, but about all the aspects of life in Pakistan worth celebrating, and also, just as crucially, about all the aspects of life in Pakistan as unremarkable and harmless as a ball tapped to mid-on for no run in the last session of a dead rubber.

But looking at the TV coverage of the attacks, that hope has already begun to fade. There is a backlash under way, but it's not directed at the attackers or the ideological environment that breeds them. The incident is already spiralling into the ugly rhetoric of this being 'Our Mumbai', and arguments that go like, "since some of the Mumbai attackers went from Pakistan, so these boys must have come from across the border". As we watched the looped visuals of young men, barely out of their teens, wearing white sneakers and backpacks, strolling on the green grass outside Qaddafi Stadium and shooting at an ambulance, a very popular presenter on a big news channel explained the incident. "Which country didn't want the Sri Lankan team to come to Pakistan? Which country was very upset when the Sri Lankans decided to come and play in Pakistan?" India, of course. "We don't even need to guess who is behind these attacks," he concluded his argument.

It might be too early to tell who was behind these attacks, as old-fashioned journalists are fond of saying, but we can safely say that pictures of young men wearing sneakers, backpacks and brandishing AK-47s, and TV presenters demanding revenge, will be the only spectator sport on Pakistani TV channels for some time.


(Pakistani writer Mohammed Hanif is the author of the acclaimed novel based on President Zia-ul-Haq's assassination, A Case of Exploding Mangoes, published by Random House, India.)

terrorism
A larger theme unites 26/11, the BDR mutiny and Lahore terror
Pranay Sharma
pakistan
In Pakistan too, the foreign hand story meets with scorn
Amir Mir
pakistan
Gujral made RAW wind up covert-action capabilities abroad
Saikat Datta
bangladesh
The mutiny in the Bangladesh Rifles raises larger questions
Julfikar Ali Manik, Nadeem Qadir
Opinion
If politics can't stanch the flow of terror, cricket will be a collateral casualty
Pradeep Magazine
sri lanka
Instinctive self-preservation has elbowed out cricketing well-being in a shocked Sri Lanka
Amantha Perera
 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Apr 05, 2009 12:00 AM
62
Lahore Lanks Attack Bcos LANKS Contacted By USA & ISAF to put to DEATH A , T ET AL in AFPAK ?
Mort
Bombay, India
Mar 22, 2009 12:00 AM
61
Akil:>>"A nearly failed state is submerging in the quicksand and clutching the rest".

You are right. the casteist creed-guided politicians, of all major parties, have let the counry down, very badly. The only party which talks of 'sarva-jana-samaj', beyond all castes and creeds, is the BSP. They seem to be also contesting all over the country. All patriotic citizens should simply vote for maayaavati's party and hope for the best. Perhaps, the cosmo-mom as 'vishnu-maayaa' will guide her suitably after she win's the election, despite any deficiencies!.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 22, 2009 12:00 AM
60
Dear Mr. Seshadri,

>> “Internationalizing it will only increase the prestige of india ...”

Okay, but you have to consider the reasons behind the shifting. This subcontinent is insulting itself by performing all the incidents that are disgraceful to the rest of the world. We do not want such internationalization that only marks us as useless internationally!

A nearly failed state is submerging in the quicksand and clutching the rest.

I was a fool talking about Kolkata, Eden Gardens etc. to you. Now it’s out of India. IPL out of India means a cup of tea – served one hour before!

dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Mar 22, 2009 12:00 AM
59
DIP:>>"(In my opinion IPL could have been launched after the election.)"

Internationalizing it will only increase the prestige of india and its people, minus its politicians, of course!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 22, 2009 12:00 AM
58
Now look at the consequence:

IPL MOVED OUT OF INDIA


http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?656381


(In my opinion IPL could have been launched after the election.)
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Mar 14, 2009 12:00 AM
57
faruki

who has stopped pakistan from practiceing the same set up as in india.

who has protested against freedom of speech, and
equal rights for women in india.

where are people like you when such matters are debated.

yes you are the ones chargeing the bjp for spreading hate, because they want uniform laws.
you are the one who says that tasleema nasreen
should not speak because she is not a indian
citizen. she is more of an indian citizen then
you. you are a muslim american, with little loyalty to real ideals of freedom.

any trick is used to avoid real issues.
what does your daughter say about you.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 14, 2009 12:00 AM
56
faruki

muslims have conferences several times an year.

let there be a resolution that

aaa. muslims should accept democracy.

bbb freedom of speech.

ccc equality of men and women.

ddd state and mosque should be separate.

as far as i know most conferences are against
the above.

the conference in 1999 rejected the united nations resolution for human rights

now want to introduce blasphemy laws.

and many muslims want islamic states with sharia.

you are deliberately liveing in a world of your own.

who is stopping pakistan from being a democratic state. even imran khan now supports sharia.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 14, 2009 12:00 AM
55
Banito/Lalit,

>> according to islam there can be no separation between state and islam.

Originally true for all religions. Now there is voluminous literature to show that Islam is compatible with both democracy and secularism. No wonder such literature just passes you by!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Mar 14, 2009 12:00 AM
54
Banito/Lalit,

>> kamal attaturk changed the way turks lived-

But earlier you had said that he had banned Islam in large parts of Turkey! Why do you lie so much? Your idle thoughtless rants reveal an inferior mind.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Mar 14, 2009 12:00 AM
53
Corrected post:

Banito/Lalit,

>> kamal attaturk decided that islam was for all purposes unreformable. thats why he tried to ban large parts of it in turkey.

I don't know whether you are a total ignoramus or a liar, but Kemal Ataturk did not ban Islam anywhere in Turkey, he just sepsarated state from religion. Maybe you are just an idiot!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Mar 14, 2009 12:00 AM
52
faruki

according to islam there can be no separation between state and islam.

you can see this in many muslim countries.

attempts are made to separate the two, but this is against the edicts of your religion.

swat is an example.

your attempts to give islam a humane image is
just pure hog wash. no one will believe you.

in afghanistan the supreme court sentenced a young man of 20 years for blasphemy. thats
your religion in a nut shell. and dont pretend
that this is not true.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 14, 2009 12:00 AM
51
faruki

kamal attaturk changed the way turks lived-

he banned the veil, and even today girls can not
wear veils in schools and colleges.

istambul is more like a western city then a islamic city. hundreds of thousands marched in
istambul over attempts to islamise the country.

modern turks are less religious then most muslims. in fact they are a devided country, half
being modern and the rest islamic.

it has created lots of problems for turkey, and the eu is most reluctant to give it membership.

incidentally why are you so enraged if i said that attaturk banned islam.


he died of drinking too much, and lived a modern
life.

he did try and influence turkey away from islam,into a more modern mindset.

the shah of persia tried to do the same. he failed and khomeini came back to power.

unless you muslims modernise, and reject large
parts of islam , you will remain stuck in backwardness.

i believe you will remain backward. too bad for you guys and all who live close to you.

with your views you will always be at odds with the western world. still you insist on liveing there- and i believe you will remain in usa even if islam was outlawed one day.

you would still prefer it to muslim countries.

can you explain why.?
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
50
Banito/Lalit,

>> kamal attaturk decided that islam was for all purposes unreformable. thats why he tried to ban large parts of it in turkey.

I don't know whether you are a total ignoramus or a liar, but Kemal Ataturk did not ban Islam anywhere in Turkey, he just sepsarated state from government. Maybe you are just an idiot!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
49
Vijay,

I loved the Holi video. Thanks!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
48
banito

Thanks for your remorse ... I will reply back to you later on ... it is Friday and markets are about to close ... call it a day ... have a nice week-end

PS: keep this thread open
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
47
Mr Bharathy

Moreover, as far as “bygone colonial angst” and “solid things” that colonial rule did to India is concerned, one, especially the educated and upwardly mobile global Indians and NRIs, would themselves and India do a great favour if they look at their history and civilisation in a fresher perspective than what the colonials taught us, wanted us to believe and subsequently shoved it down our throats … for to make some one a slave and keep him as such the master destroys his morale and character … and what better way to do this than rob or distort his past from him …

Oh, yes, British built railways, bridges, canals and hospitals all over India, opened Colleges and Universities for higher learning that are now among the top along with our own IITs, gave us a central military command and above all the rule of law, courts and a judiciary as good as England itself. And one can not deny that there were some ICS administrators who fell in love with India and dedicated themselves and did some really commendable work like abolishing Sati, Thuggery, female infanticide etc …

BUT, the prime objective was to consolidate and sustain their empire, while Indians kept on loosing a sense of their history and national self-respect … as the residue of Macaulayism crystallised and produced in Macaulays’ own words brown Sahibs as “interpreters between us and millions whom we govern - a class of persons Indian in blood and colour, but English in tastes, in opinions, in morals and in intellect."

Then, some English archaeologists discovered the Harappa and Mohenjo-daro and the rape of our history was complete with the redundant Aryan Invasion Theory of Maxmuller resurrected and propagated through our text books that Aryan were after all blue eyed white skinned Caucasians who came from Central Asia with their Vedas, conquered and drove the dark and flat nosed “Dravidians” to the south, and that a Punjabi was as distinct from a Tamil or a Malyali, as a Scandinavian from an Italian. Saraswati became just a mythical river, Ramayan/Mahabharat works of fiction and Puranas/Upnishadas/Shastras emerging out of some sort of voodoo occult and animistic faiths.

Bahadur Shah Jafar, the great Moghul emperor of India, was exiled to spend his dying days in Rangoon, and Muslims were led to believe that they were a race apart from Hindus in their faith, habits, food, language and ancestry … that they were a separate nation within a nation and Syed Ahmed Khan of Delhi was awarded a knighthood for brainwashing the Muslims with this lie …

So what we have now is a nation after 60 years of self-rule still struggling to find herself a national identity with her two limbs cut off by the most brutal and unnatural surgical operation in the whole human history … to achieve what one may ask ? Give strategic depth to Britain and USA in Asia against Russia and China and protect their oil supplies from oil-rich Arab sheikhdoms …
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
46
aggarwal

sorry i was rude to you.

no excuse at all. i can be bad tempered at times,
but let bygones be bygones.

just a minor point.

anglophiles, indophiles are people who have
sympathies for england or india.it should not mean what you imply.

regarding being very very careful about not
alienating muslims.

muslims have alienated the britts, the dutch ,
the australians.

have poor, mild mannered hindus alienated the
muslims. are you aware of what is taught in
pakistani schools,military acadamies.

are we alienating muslims in india, even in places in the south of india.have kashmiri pandits alienated the muslims in kashmir valley.

i think you are just being too forgiveing and too kind to the other side. and dont forget what some of your muslim friends have done in bangladesh, the way they treat their own mothers,daughters,sisters and other women folks in afghanistan and pakistan.

my motto is- and it comes from our common heritage.

fight for what is right- and be gracious in victory.

these were churchills words.

in defeat defiance, in victory magnaminity ,in
peace good will.

the ethos of hindus and that of the english is
similar. the ethos of islam and hinduism is not.

this can be seen in that whilst india has tried
to follow the british model, pakistan has chosen the islamic model.

it shows.

ps sorry i got you riled up.

banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
45
Denigrating Muslims and Islam vehemently in one breath and with the other trying to help them is the apex of hypocrisy and double standards ... first you slap them and then say look I am only helping you ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
44
Mr Bharathy

Sensible queries deserve sensible answers ... so, here we are:

First of all, I have been on this Outlook forum for nearly over 4/5 years now, and I have NEVER EVER changed my Id which is my real name. We shifted to Northampton about 7 years ago from London, when I sort of took an early retirement from my City job working with UK's top and worldwide company in their Risk Management group as a banking/dealing s/w support consultant. My wife is a consultant anaesthetist in a local NHS trust hospital. I was born and bred in Lucknow and came to UK for studies back in 70's ... I returned to India and as you know it was quite difficult to get good jobs in those day in India. So, I returned back to UK, then spent 2 years in Canada, and trained myself in IT/Finance and was fortunate enough to get a lucrative contract in Dubai for 2 years. After that I got this city job and bought my first house in UK in 1980's, married to a Delhi girl and settled down. Now I have said all about myself in this forum because I do not fear any one and have nothing to hide ... as it appears that you suspect my identity because I have VERY VERY CLEARLY in this forum on a number of accasions maintained that we in India must be very careful in alienating Muslims and other minorities from the main stream.

Now coming back to being an Anglophile as you have yourself so eloquently declared, please look up in the dictionary ... it says "anglophilia represents an individual's preference for English culture over their own; the belief that English culture is superior;"

It is, therefore, clear from this definition, unless you have a different one, that if you accept that you are an Anglophile you admit that English culture is superior to your own ... I will never accept that because I have been taught (by my parents/teachers) to take pride in my own ancient Vedic culture ... now this does not necessarly imply that I am at odds with the democratic and civilisational ethos of the West, or choose to live as an alien in UK as some South Asians do do, but ... and this is where ones' identity creeps in ... because I would never be able to possibly identify myself with the English, or for that reason they would with me, or my offsprings, even if I had married an English girl ...

No, I have not come across any "Indophile" Westerner who considers Indian culture superior than theirs even though they may deeply admire it, or get influenced by it substantially ...

Now coming back... what ever happens in political terms to the states of the Gangetic belt, does in no way diminish its rich culture and its pan-India appeal, nor should it give way to denigration of its people ... for there may be several reasons that can be argued for their backwardness comparative to other states in India, be it the colnial exploitation, the agrarian economy or lack of investment by the central govts over the last 60 years, but the historical fact is that Awadh (current Eastern UP) was the richest among all Indian states before the British arrived on the scene ...

Banito/Adolpho/Lalito's problems and attitude as he makes no secret of are deep-rooted ... in Pathan/Punjabi boorishness, ego and pomposity ... otherwise why would he have to resort to personal abuse and degrade others on their ethnicity be it ... just because he considers himself as something superior ... calling himself an Anglophile using foul language and erratic eccentric English ... my foot ...



Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
43
aggarwal

people like you have no idea of what fascism is all about. and i am certainly not a fascist.
i stand for the rights of the poorest and weakest, and not just by empty talk.i work
for the poor in india-everyone i come across,
if i can help.

that is why i am against islam, which is a rigid,intolerant religion. not all muslims are
rigid and difficult, but on the whole a lot of them are. you have just to read whats happening in pakistan for example, in the telegraph and the independent.

if most muslims were friendly and nice britain would not have such serious problems with your lahori friends , who however nice can not change the picture.

if they were so nice, then women would not have to be scared to go out of their homes in pakistan

all in all you are willing to deny all the faults of the muslim religion for the sake of a few friends, and this is certainly no way to take a position on world affairs.

there are ex muslims like tasleema nasreen who have been exiled from both bangladesh and india.
people like ayan hirsi ali,dr sultan etc require protection 24 hours of the day,whilst you eat biryani in a pakistani restaurant, and abuse others who stand up for their rights.

if there is a coward in this forum, and one who is willing to sell the idea of freedom and liberty then it is you.

we so called fascists and chauvanist pigs will fight for the opressed,weak and women in muslim countries. you will just look away from them,
because it is so uncomfortable.

for a change walk into some of the muslim ghettoes. firstly you will see few women. and those you see will be covered by top to toe in black. wake up to reality, if you can stand the shock.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
42
baia

you are a fool.

not worth commenting upon.

whilst india is burning you go around drooling
about javed akhtar celebrateing holi.

its the level you so called secular hindus have gone down to. a guy like you who eats in lahori restaurants with pakistani,s , and drools about
his jaumna ganga tehzib is a moron .

banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
41
Hay Hay Hay, let us all stop bothering about Paki Cricket and watch the "national game" of Pakistan unfold. It is known as "Dang the leader". Pakis did that to Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, Bhutto, Zia, and Benazir. Let us see whose turn is it now???
Akil
Bangalore, India
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
40
jankha shalwar wearing "frontierwalah"

You are as castiest, sectarian, self-opinionated and narrow-minded chauvinistic pig as those politicians in India you are referring to ... at best you are a perpetual bore and a pathetic moron without any self-respect or identity what so ever when you anoint and pride yourself as "westernised" and "anglophile" ... you are a disgrace to humanity, your people and country ... you have flooded this forum with hate and fascist write-ups ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
39
bania

i am westernised and a anglophile.

you know best what you are.

you are probably a nice guy. however i consider
you to be naive especially wrt jamuna ganga tehzib.

on another note, why is your state in such a mess. it does not have one sensible leader.

banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
38
stopperbhai.

kamal attaturk decided that islam was for all purposes unreformable.

thats why he tried to ban large parts of it in turkey.

i also believe that there is at least these days
no possibility of reforming islam

nonmuslim countries should ban islam if possible, or restrict it as china as doing in sinkiang. its a matter of state secureity, and the development of society.

islam is like a huge road block on the way to progress. it should be removed, by one means or the other.

faruki is a prime example. we can not civilise him , or accept his behaviour. instead of endless arguments muslims like him should be put
on a short leash.people like him are permanent adverseries, and a road block to development.

it may go against our principles of individual freedom, but thats the best solution.

usa has given up its project to civilise the taliban. the only options are to leave them alone. the next option is to bomb and kill them.
no need for the second-

separate and not coexistence is the answer.

muslims swear by this in their own countries.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
37
banito/adolpho/lalito ... showing his true self ... under his shalwar ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
36
banito/adolpho/lalito ... showing his true self ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
35
bania aggarwal

dont make the mistake of calling the jehadi,s cowards.

you are the coward.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
34
aggarwal

you are a bania from up.

st columbas,st stephens,university of loughborough,exxon

you are a pathetic wimp,mooning about your jehadi pals, and playing holi with them.

guys like you have given up the good fight,
and surrendered.

no f up
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
33

http://timesofindia.ind...m/videoshow/4253354.cms


How delightful to watch Shabana Azmi and Javed Akhtar covered in Gulal, drinking bhang and celebrating Holi ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
32
hi banito

I don't really know your background either ... but it shows in your posts written in English that even a Geordie wouldn't even spit on ... you are as contemptuous as your assumed pseudonym suggests and no better than those coward Islamic Jihadis hiding in FATA & NWFP ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
31
Imran Khan:

Once you decorated the game -
your leadership and overall
control over Pakistan team
made others simply jealous.
Batsmen used to wish
a quickest possible finish
of your spells that could inflict harms
to their bodies and to the furniture
behind their legs.

A good leader like you is
appeared to be a rusty politician now
wearing Kurta and Panjabi!
Your approval on Swat development has
provided food for thought once again
about the overall understanding level of polished
and educated Muslims.

Is this only for politics?
What do you want to gain?
Power?
The attack on Sri Lankan Cricket team
should have been protested with lakhs of Pakistanis
under your leadership. The overwhelmingly
furious procession should have denounced terrorism.
We craved for an awakening scream from Pakistan just informing the world -

“Don't dare to attack our pride - our Cricket!!
Don't choke our music.
Stop slitting throats of our artists.
Our girls want to go to the school!!!

What a pathetic transformation of an inspiring soul!
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
30
Alok,

You said,
"Hindus should discard most of their rutuals and rites"

Which specific rituals are you talking about ? How does discarding them become humanitarian ? If you are talking about Sati, it is not legal. Dowry is still a problem, but mostly in rural areas. In urban area, it is already discarded. Castism is there ( actually it is more of reverse castism), more for political vote bank reasons. Average hindu does not care about it. I donot see any ritual that most hindus are following that is against humanity. Appreciate if you can elaborate.
Maha
NJ, United States
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
29
Alok,

>> "Important thing not is what to do? A house divided will always crumble with least effort. We should encourage reform in Islam and side with the Sufi brand-if they are still alive. Similarly, Hindus should discard most of their rutuals and rites (not all) and become truly modern and humanitarian in a breathtaking way-IMMEDIATELY."

Good post.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
28
aggarwal

the britts saved us.

otherwise we would be writeing in urdu.

there would no great universities, railways,
roads or bridges.

aggarwal i dont know your background - but you
amaze me- with your ganga jamuna tehzib.

english education, the rule of law, idea of
liberty and democracy ,are the things that have
shaped modern india.

you guys with your tehzib are being ruled by
mayawati- and by mulayam singhs. a damn shame.

UP is a lost state with no future.


banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 12, 2009 12:00 AM
27
mr ghai

things are different now,

no one has to defeat the muslims. they will do
it themselves.

i read a story in the Independent, from england.
a organisation in Pakistan is looking after
about 600 muslim women who have been disfigured as a result of acid attacks. this centre ensures
them protection and also helps them get a
more or less normal face . 6 Italian surgeons have arrived to provide plastic surgery.

despite this and other help even muslims who disfigure their own women pass nasty remarks about the west.

I expect the resident Maulvi to come with counter accusations against Muthalics ram sena,
against abhinav Bharat to so as to provide a
fig leaf to the monsters in his midst.

Its my belief that men who degrade their women to the extent that the pakistani,s are doing
will themselves experience the flames of death and destruction.

whilst there are some liberal pakistani,s who defend womens right and that of minorities, few
indian muslims do the same. probably there are
very few liberal muslim souls. if they are then have been in hideing for the last 60 years.

all we get to hear from are antulays, shaubuddin,
oweissi and the faruki,s-

Amen.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 12, 2009 12:00 AM
26
"Prithvi Raj Chauhan, Hindu Maharaja of Ajmer, defeated Mohd Ghauri, who established the first Muslim sultanate in Delhi, several times, but let him go each time. Ghauri was successful because he used diplomatic and strategic methods, and was able to cause rift between Chauhan and his cousin brother Jai Chand, the ruler of Kannauj, who betrayed and "

Vijay Agarwal

Prithvi Raj Choan defeated Gauri in the First War of Tarien ( Tarawardi near Karnal Haryana).
Gauri took to heels with a few hundereds defeated an ddemoralised soldiers.Victorious Rajputs did not set on persuit of the defeated Gauri who was runningt through an extremely hostile population whom Gauri had looted and killed.

This was the tactical and Military blunder no 1 !

Prithvi Raj kidnapped Jai Chand his cousin brother's daughter and married her .Love affair or no -the need of those times was to remain united and strong Militarily,Politically and Morally and not to run away with one's neice .

This was the tactical mistake 2.

History never forgives even one blunder but Choan did two.Hindus have National Heroes like defeated and blundering Prithvi Raj Choans.Any wonder why Hindus were always the loosers' race ??
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Mar 12, 2009 12:00 AM
25
Mr Alok

It is a distressing and benighted view of our history to say that “Hindus could not defeat 1000 Muslim invaders” for the fact is that Prithvi Raj Chauhan, Hindu Maharaja of Ajmer, defeated Mohd Ghauri, who established the first Muslim sultanate in Delhi, several times, but let him go each time. Ghauri was successful because he used diplomatic and strategic methods, and was able to cause rift between Chauhan and his cousin brother Jai Chand, the ruler of Kannauj, who betrayed and sided with Ghauri hoping he would be the sole ruler of North India when Ghauri is gone after finishing Chauhan.

However, one lesson that an Indian must learn from the history that Hindus were NEVER short of courage or valour to confront the invaders, but lost the decisive battles like the one Chauhan lost to Ghauri in Tarain, or Rana Sanga in Panipat to Babar, because of internal intrigue and betrayals, and lack of active support from other Hindu rulers. Indeed, this lack of unity against a foreign invader is not a Hindu trait, but was common among the Muslims rulers too. In the same way, Tipu Sultan of Mysore was betrayed by his own Vazir (PM) and Nawab Siraj-ud-daula of Bengal by his army chief Mir Jafar, an Arab by descent and is commonly known as Ghaddar-e-Hind (Betrayer of India).

The Afghans like Sher Shah Suri, or Mughals like Akbar could not possibly have been able to build an empire without the military support and co-operation from Hindu Rajputs. There were others like Rana Pratap of Mewar who did not lend their support to Mughals and fought for their independence until their death. Raja Mansingh of Jaipur was Akbar’s commander in chief, and so was Raja Jai Singh from Shahjahan to Aurangzeb whose oppressive policies caused largely non-violent Sikhs to rebel in Punjab and take up swords under the leadership of Guru Teg Bahadur. Marathas under Shivaji rose against Mughals in Maharashatra and Central India and virtually controlled all of Delhi, Haryana and Western UP, until they lost their last battle against the British in 1818, again because of internal Maratha family squabbles when Scindias of Gwalior refused to co-operate with Peshwas.

Then the British came and caused rifts between Hindus and Muslims, between North and South, between Punjabis and Bengalis …
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Mar 12, 2009 12:00 AM
24
faruki

dont be cocky.

unless muslims make a sea change,no one will accept them. thats what i meant.the time will come when you will squeal for mercy in the usa.

i will not accept a sob like you even if you
changed everything about yourself.

dog shit is better then you.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 12, 2009 12:00 AM
23
Banito/Lalit,

>> i and most hindus will accept muslims when they undergo a sea change.

I will not accept a bigot like you under any circumstances, whatever the word "accept" means in your dumb lexicon.

>> its clear that your main interest are muslims.

Actually it is you whose main interest is Muslims!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Mar 12, 2009 12:00 AM
22
faruki

its clear that your main interest are muslims.

nothing else concerns you.

your advocasey for islam and muslims is tiresome.

tell muslims to work hard for themselves.,
we have no obligation towards them, especially since we know that they live in india not because
they care for this country, but they have no where else to go.

we hindus have a rotten opinion of islam and the prophet. none of your blathering will change this.dont waste our time.

if you want to speak up for the profet,then adress fellow muslims.

most of us respect exmuslims like tasleema, ayan hirsi ali and despise idiots and fanatics like
you.

end of discussion.

banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 12, 2009 12:00 AM
21
faruki

i and most hindus will accept muslims when they undergo a sea change. this may mean abandoneing
a pot of their evil,and backward faith.

if you dont then expect trouble. we hindus owe you nothing.

and i resent your smart alec replies.

wrt kashmiri muslims- they are like you.

we are not.

hindus are far more civilised, decenr and thats
why the whole world thinks differently of us and
you.

we should act harshly against stubborn muslims,
never mind what you say. they have to learn to conform, and if not they will feel the heat.

i speak openly- most hindus are afraid of confrontation. thats the reason for all over
problems.

hindus should have faught of the 1000 muslim
horsemen who invaded india. killed them and buried them in lime pits.

these invaders have caused a havoc in india.
by spreading islam amongst the poor hindus, who
have been transformed into fanatics and barbarians.

we dont need to get your approval.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 12, 2009 12:00 AM
20
Banito/Lalit,

>> ask anyone in this forum,and most would be glad if india was free of muslims.

Your views are so much Hitlerian! Even the most rabid racists would hesitate to say that.

>> many europeans want to expell muslims.

They have wanted to expel non-Europeans for the past 1000 years. That's why there was a holocaustt. Interesting that you find affinity with such Europeans!

>> its not 10 percent- its 40 percent.

It is 10%.

>> , your muslims have expelled hindu pandits from the valley.


Those Muslims have the same mindset as you!

I shall be back in 8 hours. Behave yourself while I am gone.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Mar 12, 2009 12:00 AM
19
faruki

many europeans want to expell muslims.

now the danish govt has passed a law permitting deportation of immigrants for serious crimes.

if non muslums want to live without muslims that is their right.

has happened in the balkans.everone is better for it.

serbs in serbia and muslims in bosnia. peace for all. your religion is so evil, that we can not accept its followers. just look at pakistan.

absolute scum.

why do you carry on like this.

yes i want guys like you out. its not a sin.
we do not want to live with people with barbaric views. is it a sin to want to live without mullah omar and his followers.

all others-budhists, jews, christians are welcome.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 12, 2009 12:00 AM
18
faruki

ask anyone in this forum,and most would be glad if india was free of muslims.

himachal, uttarkhand ,ladakh,sikkim are the best states in india.

regarding apartheid you muslims have expelled all nonmuslims from your countries.

is it wrong if we do the same with you.

even now the indian govt should allow all nonmuslims to come to india from pakistan, in exchange for an equal number of muslims like you.

are you scared to live in pakistan-
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
17
We are talking about a country where Shia cleric is murdered and subsequently when people gather for his burial another sucide attack happens killing scores more.

A country where sunni militants pick shia festival to wreak havoc in shia mosque and vice-versa.

Froget about respecting lives of people of other religion these people can't respect lives of their own brothers over cosmetic difference.

PS: Religion has nothing to do wiht it though. Islam mean peace and hence no question sud be asked :-))

Rahul
Delhi, India
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
16
Banito/Lalit,

>> not in pakistan and neither in india. and why do we have to live alongside eah other. there is no muslim near about, and i dont seem to miss them either.

You have been advocating the same obnoxious views for over five years, namely apartheid, further partitions, mass population movements and handing over Kashmir to Pakistan! Nobody in this forum shares your vile and backward views.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
15
Ghai,

>> Happy EID to Azeem Taqi ,Faruki ,Ahmad and Mohan Bwarey.

Thanks, and happy Holi to you and others!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
14
alok

not in pakistan and neither in india.

and why do we have to live alongside eah other.

there is no muslim near about, and i dont seem
to miss them either.

it is enough if we can live peacefully apart.
even that does not seem possible.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
13
maha

they are both bad.

basta
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
12
Azim,

"If one observes many of the Pakistani cricketers such as Inzamam Ul Haq, Saeed Anwar, etc, he would not be faulted in believing that the cricketer and the fundamentalists are merely two sides of the same coin."

Why would you say that ? Being religious can be different than being a fundamentalists. e.g. the clean shaven, whiskey drinking paki elites are far more fundamentalist than a common muslim.

Happy Holi and Id mubarak to everyone !!
Maha
NJ, United States
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
11
Azeem where were you all these days friend ?

Happy EID to Azeem Taqi ,Faruki ,Ahmad and Mohan Bwarey.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
10
If one observes many of the Pakistani cricketers such as Inzamam Ul Haq, Saeed Anwar, etc, he would not be faulted in believing that the cricketer and the fundamentalists are merely two sides of the same coin.
Imran Khan fools no one with his comments and neither does he believe in it himself.
Azeem Taqi
Nashville, United States
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
9
The Ganga-Jumna Tehzeeb

Lucknow (UP) India : "Amid shouts of "Holi hai", a large number of Hindus and Muslims came together here on Wednesday for a 40-year-old practise of jointly celebrating the festival of colours in the old quarter."

read:
http://timesofindia.ind...articleshow/4252309.cms
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
8
When was India against peace?? Hasn't India been warning Paki Army and ISI of the consequence of nurturing Jehadi Terrorism from time to time??? What can India do if Paki Army keep "Mad Dogs" (Islamic Terrorist) as pet to be let lose on India??? Isn't The Paki Army and ISI responsible for training all these terrorist??? Now that the Mad Dogs have started biting the Masters why should India support the Pakis??? The Kasmiri Muslims left the path of terrorist violence in 1994 itself. Isn't the Paki Army and ISI responsible for sending in Islamic Terrorist across LC to keep the Jehadi Terrorism active in Kashmir???

The most unfortunate part would be that it would be Indian Cricket team which will first to tour Pakistan to revitalize them, when the rest of the world would be shunning them. We did that for Gen Musharaff immediately after his take over by inviting him to Agra, and again by inviting him to India Today Conclave when he has been discredited in Pakistan to grant him a fresh lease of popularity. What has he achieved by either of the action except to show it to the world how magnanimous we are- Pakis can keep kicking Indians and we will continue to fete them. Even God can not save India with people like us ready to bend backwards every time and each time we are kicked by Pakis. But Pakis are perpetually willing to "cut their nose" to spite India. Hum to dubenge sanam- tujhe bhe sath lenge- or something to that effect.
Akil
Bangalore, India
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
7
What requires now is not the blame game against each other but an honest and sincere joint effort by both the countries to root out the militant extremism from the soil of South Asia for survival.
T.Sathyamurthi
Folsom, United States
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
6
healthy societies of good people can fight back
and defeat fanatics and dogmatic elements.

in no muslim country,leave alone pakistan are there strong dedicated people who will fight for human rights.

however in these countries you can get tens of thousands of people to make violent demonstrations for some fantical cause.

even the sitting govts will not do anything.
basically no one wants to take on the mullahs, because they are looked up to.the armies are well armed,ready to fight india. they lack the motivation to fight the mullahs.

why muslims even in european countries seldom fight for human rights or the common good.

yasmin alibhai brown has written about this in the Independent.

i this forum faruki goes ballistic defending the right of young girls to visit pubs. he is quiet as a mouse when tasleema nasreen is assaulted.
that goes for most muslims.

in their case devotion to islam,the profet far
out weigh the rights and liberties of fellow citizens,
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 10, 2009 12:00 AM
5
>> prediction about a popular backlash would turn out to be true this time.

Fear can damp backlash. Nobody wants to risk his or her life when bombings have become an almost daily affair.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Mar 10, 2009 12:00 AM
4
" was desperately hoping that Imran Khan’s prediction about a popular backlash would turn out to be true this time."

This is just one more proof that the Pakis value terror more than cricket. The whole notion of good pakistanis opposed to terrorism is plain BS.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Mar 08, 2009 12:00 AM
3
The fact is that most paki Muslims have no balls. Corrupt minds of a corrupt regime - they have no brains left. Personal gains is the single goal and hating every other religion the key activity.F@ck them all - mofo idiots.
escoss
delhi, India
Mar 08, 2009 12:00 AM
2
I am waiting with bated breath after almost a week, for Mr. Imran Khan to come out and offer his wisdom on what and why things happened in Lahore. We have to see whether his heroics and the justification of his hero status are confined to no more than the cricket pitch; or he has something much more to intelligent to explain than the usual easy-to-wiggle-out popular media refrain of "It is the Indians and its RAW who did this. Our militants (sic) are too caring to attack cricket".
Based on his previously known sympathies and affiliations, I don't entertain too much enlightenment from any (if at all) pronouncements from him.
Non Fanatic
London, United Kingdom
Mar 07, 2009 12:00 AM
1
OUTLOOK must get one of the "bleeding heart candle light brigade", preferably Arundhati Roy, to write on the attack on Sri Lankan cricket team.
Akil
Bangalore, India
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