Narendra Bisht
Of Sanskriti: Class 7 student Hishamuddin reads out from a Sanskrit text at Jaunpur's Madrassa Anwarul-Islam Salfia
uttar pradesh: madrassas
Slokas After A Noon Namaaz
Muslim children study Sanskrit and Hindu ones read Quran in these UP madrassas
We arrive at Madrassa Anwarul-Islam Salfia at 12.45 pm, a little before namaaz. As the students gather around the row of taps to wash their hands and feet and line up for prayers, this modest building in the dusty, narrow bylanes of Chauri in Jalalpur, in eastern UP's Jaunpur district, looks exactly how we expect a madrassa to be: a place for rigorous study of Islam, Urdu, Arabic.

What we encounter instead is a complete contradiction.
 
 
"It's ironical that madrassas should be nursing Sanskrit when it's vanishing elsewhere," says Salfia's R.K. Mishra.
 
 
The bare, red brick walls of the Standard 7 classroom are yet to be plastered, the window frames still to be fitted. Here, 12-year-old Nadima Bano and Hishamuddin are reciting, their pronunciation perfect and elocution chaste, this ode to India, "Yasyottarasyamdishibhati bhumao Himalayah parvatraj eshah..." It's a sloka in Sanskrit that translated means 'the land shielded by the Himalayas in the north'. "Sanskrit padhne se zubaan saaf ho jaati hai (the diction becomes clear by learning Sanskrit)," Hishamuddin tells us. "Sanskrit is considered the mother of all languages," says their teacher Rabindra Kumar Mishra. "It's ironical that institutions like this madrassa should be nursing it while it's vanishing elsewhere."

That it's no exception we have stumbled upon becomes clear to us as we proceed north to Ambedkarnagar district, to Madrassa Azizia Islamia in Kamharia village. The hands of the wall clock might be stuck at 6.45 in this primary school or maktab, but the school itself has progressed in other ways. Space is obviously at a premium—Classes 2-5 are being held simultaneously in separate, little rows in a large hall. Sirajuddin is teaching Sanskrit grammar to Class 3. "It was my favourite subject when I was a child," he says with a smile. "Balakah pathati; Sah pathati; Balakau pathatah (A child studies, he studies, they study)...," his student Muhammad Shahid recites for us.
 
 
"Jaunpur has been a literary centre," says Prof Srivastava. "People here feel humiliated at being targeted wrongly."
 
 
They soon move on to another lesson. "Asmakam deshasya asti ateev shobhanah (our country is very beautiful)...".

However, this story is not only about Hishamuddins learning Sanskrit. It's also about 13-year-old Ravi Prakash Pandey, a Brahmin and the son of a Sanskrit professor, opting to learn Quran in Class 1. A former student of Azizia Islamia, he can now recite the holy text from memory and has a copy at home that he peruses religiously. "Quran teaches that we must help others and do good deeds and stay away from evil," he says, without batting an eyelid, and then rushes to wash himself and wear a cap before reading it aloud for us.

We hear this echo back in Salfia where two Hindu girls—14-year-old Arti Kumari and Anita Kumari—are writing about Prophet Mohammed in Urdu on the blackboard—"Jab hamare Hazrat ki umr paintees baras ki thi (when our prophet was 35 years old)...". "They face absolutely no problem in writing, reading or understanding Urdu," their teacher Kaiser Jahan informs us.

At Madrassa Arbiya Zia-ul-uloom in Mandey in Azamgarh district, sisters Manju and Ranju Kumari have been learning Urdu from Class 1. They mean it when they recite: "Urdu hai jiska naam hamari zubaan hai, duniya ki har zubaan se pyaari zubaan hai (Urdu is the sweetest of the languages in the world)." Passing by Class 1, you can hear Prashant Kumar explaining Urdu numerals to his classmates.

The teachers on either side of the linguistic divide find much in common between Sanskrit and Urdu—both languages, they say, have an evolved, complex grammar. "Their grammar must be the toughest," says Muhammad Tariq of Madrassa Arbiya. They see this coexistence of Sanskrit and Urdu as normal and not deliberately symbolic in these troubled, divisive times. "How can you associate a language with any religion?" asks Brijesh Kumar Yaduvanshi, a long-time resident of Jaunpur and president, All India University Students' Union. "Urdu doesn't belong to Muslims nor does Sanskrit have to do just with Hindus."

Nevertheless, the focus on Sanskrit, a language that has long gone out of everyday use, is intriguing. "It's not about helping students get jobs," says Qari Jalaluddin of Salfia, "but about teaching them humanity, about great thoughts and the right way to live, about being able to distinguish right from wrong." Sanskrit is taught at Salfia till Class 9, Urdu is compulsory in Class 1-5, after which it's up to the Hindu students to decide whether they want to study it further.


Well versed: Ravi Prakash reciting Quran

This easy cohabitation of Sanskrit and Urdu in Jaunpur's madrassas could well be regarded as a legacy of the town's liberal Sufi past. "It was a centre of education in the middle ages," says Yaduvanshi, "has never witnessed a single Hindu-Muslim riot, and has always been a symbol of unity." The Salfia madrassa has, in fact, been built on land bought from a Brahmin family in 1987.

The Azamgarh-Mau madrassas too offer a counterview for an area that has of late been made infamous for its alleged association with terrorist activities. "After all, it's the land of Rahul Sankritayan, Maulana Shibli, Firaq Gorakhpuri," says Sanjay Srivastava, professor at the Poorvanchal University. "It's a literary and cultural centre and people here have been feeling humiliated for being targeted for all the wrong reasons."

At a time when stereotypes about madrassas, especially those in eastern UP, as breeding grounds for terrorists have been gaining currency and every succeeding terror attack has boxed Indian Muslims further into neat categories as either educated, patriotic liberals or misinformed, misled fundamentalists, these madrassas are a powerful rejoinder, a heartening testimony to the unspoken, uncelebrated, broad-mindedness and inclusiveness of the common, faceless Muslim. The madrassas we visit have a sizeable number of Hindu students. Salfia currently has 475 students, of whom about 225—almost 45 per cent—are Hindus. In Azizia Islamia, 35 of the 143 students are Hindus. The newly set up Madrassa Faizul Quran operates out of a small makeshift building in an obscure corner of Amari village in Azamgarh district. The maktab has 100 kids, of whom 20 are Hindus. At Arbiya, 22 of the 374 students are Hindus.

There is little to distinguish students. You know Vinky and Reena Yadav from Soni and Rehana Banu only by their names or in the way they wear their head scarves. "We don't believe in bhed bhav," says Salfia's Jalaluddin. "Tameez and tehzeeb are the same in every religion." And though the madrassas do teach hifz, or memorisation of the Quran, all have a progressive vision too. "You can't move forward with religious education alone, our students need to be taught everything: science, geography, maths, English," says Salfia principal Muhammad Saikat. It is the only school in the village which offers high school education for girls, or else they'd have to walk 10 km to the next school. The aim now is to start computers and electronics classes.

Like many others, these madrassas are yet to get government aid. There is no midday meal scheme, nor are students given free uniforms; it is all provided by the madrassa management boards. Azizia and Arbiya give students free books and charge no fee. In Salfia the fee's just Rs 5. Faizul Quran charges Rs 40 but only 10 per cent of the students pay up. The teachers themselves get no regular pay from the government but survive on the grants patrons give to the madrassas, the salary averaging from Rs 800-1,500. In contrast, teachers on the government payroll get a princely sum of Rs 3,000.

Humble and ill-equipped though they are, these madrassas are incredible examples of how Hindus and Muslims live as one than as separate entities in these forgotten hamlets. "They represent the Ganga-Jamuni sanskriti of our villages. Why would anyone want to break the sacred thread of this age-old relationship?" asks Srivastava. Why indeed?

 
Daily MailPublished
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Dec 19, 2008 12:00 AM
45
Godhar was was the last straw already due to islamist under world activity a fear-psychosis and hatred agisnt muslims in general was rampant there and there was very good reaosn for that..

Godhara had bene famous for hoisitng pakistani flags time and again in past..

they can;t have that luxury any more ..


message is behave and you will be treated well time for prefenerential treament thgouh fear has gone by..

Come to Bihar there is a district called Kishenganj which has 67% muslim population there no hindu can cremate their dead if they wanted to they have to move out of the district.. these mullah zealots change tune the moment they get upper hand..
Rahul
Delhi, India
Dec 19, 2008 12:00 AM
44
You guys are still missing the point .. No mullah can ever tolerate any hindu scriptures ..They are teaching sanskrit langauige and see in the same mdederssah hindus are learnign quran

So when these mulahs strat teachign Geeta then they can claim secular credentials..

As of today no mullah can ever even say that all religion are equal .. they keep on saying they are the best and everyone else is hell bound thatls their quran;s basic teaching..

Anyone expecting coexistance for other wiht same kind of respect is fooling himself herself.
Rahul
Delhi, India
Dec 19, 2008 12:00 AM
43
when RSS teaches sanskrit in their schools, they are branded as brahmin terrorists. when the muslims make a show of teaching sanskrit, they are called seculars!!.
namo4
London, United Kingdom
Dec 18, 2008 12:00 AM
42
Seshadri,

>> Much of guj riots were only manufactured reaction from pak intruders and fabricated reaction by the setalvad woman, in attempts to unseat Modi and provide material for musharreff to talk in the UN.

Please call your psychiatrist. Your medication needs to be increased.

>> God never said the asuric elements can have a free play ...

True! Asurics like you should not have a free play in this forum. You should be closely supervised.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 18, 2008 12:00 AM
41
Kumar:>>"All the God-talk"

It is not just 'God-talk' only. God does exist and quite in control also. Proof of the pudding, in the eating. Survival of the fittest, in the dharmic sense. Modi got re-elected only bec he did no wrong, only right things for his state. All competant, non-arrogant CMs got reelected.

The ITS chief got killed only bec he was framing up a hindu-terror network, as reqd by evil polits in power, perh all-planned by Antulay, minister for minorities!. If he cant take out terrorism from minos, he would paint it on the majority also to balance, hence the karkare job, done unwillingly, as he himself admitted.
But Alla is judicious law-giver for all, no special favors for moslems alone. Hence karkare is no more. Dont wrry about the good fellow. He will be happlily reborn as his own grandson!

Antulay is the most unhappy man now, naturally. He should be sacked now. Nationalist moslems in the country, the large majority of apolitical moslems making an honest living really, will not take him as a martyr, only as a fool who has given them a bad name.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 18, 2008 12:00 AM
40
Kumar:>>" But what about Gujarat riots as a "reaction" for Godhra?"

Much of guj riots were only manufactured reaction from pak intruders and fabricated reaction by the setalvad woman, in attempts to unseat Modi and provide material for musharreff to talk in the UN. If gujs were killers, all guj-mosl would have been killed after the attack on akshardam, later on.

>>" Do you think God approves such “reaction”?

Every action has its reaction. Third law of motion is part of God's creation only.
God is not a weak-kneed pacifist.

>>"If you want to be on the side of God, you have to unequivocally condemn it".

God is good to good, bad to evil: paritraaNaaya saadhoonaam, vinaaSaaya tu dushkritaam! that is dharma!.

God never said the asuric elements can have a free play killing off the humans. 'tasmaad yudhyasva bhaarata', He told arjun. Jesus said blessed are the poor, only if they are non-cheaters. He allowed Himself to be crucified only bec of post-sanyas relationship with magdalene. Otherwise, Rome and J-Salem could have been burnt off with a wink of his eye. Anyway, the slave-driving roman empire got wived out by natural outrages, soon. His Guru, Sankara, got all the kaapaalikas destroyed by nrsimha, while offering himself as sacriifice!

>>"All the God-talk has no value whatsoever unless one takes a stand on the side of truth/justice/right.

Yes. satyam vada, dharmam cara, ahimsaa paramo dharmah. Showing the other cheek to the beater is only the first chance to provoke sense of justice, if present in the opponent. Otherwise, saama and daana will followed by bheda and danda! KrishNa also tried peace first, t avoid the bhaarata war, if possible. naarayaNa, the blesser can also become nrsimha, the killer, against the evil wicked! Siva, the Saanta, can open his fire-eye also! The merciful cosmomom can turn into durgaa, the kaalee also!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 18, 2008 12:00 AM
39
Ass-Seshadri,

>> Is Deoband's stand against terrr binding on the ISI in pak training terrrists for attacking india? or indian simians planning further blasts somewhere else the cuntry?

Are you being dliberately stupid? I said that a body like the one in Deoband can overrule a fatwa issued by a local mullah. How do you go to the above simian statement of yours from my answer?

>> The only reason I use the word 'churchianity' ...>> I shudder to call these murderers 'islamists'; only jislamist.

Those words do not exist except in your sick mind which is full of hostility and rudeness. But you continue to use them to show your perversity. That's why I address you, a 74 year old juvenile, as Ass-Seshadri.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 18, 2008 12:00 AM
38
Learing Sanskrit as a language from Kalidasa (the 1st sloka in the text) and making non-muslims learn a religious text is not equivalent, unless the purpose is to introduce then to the Arabic Literature.
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
Dec 18, 2008 12:00 AM
37
>> christ as divinity to be revered, he did NOT ask that leaflets saying krishna is rapist shuld be distributed..
>> For me God = Siva = Allah = Christ. I will not be a party to denigrate Him on any of the above or other names for Him

You may be right that "God = Siva = Allah = Christ" may not approve of leaflets on Krishna (assuming such leaflets exist, which is quite possible). But what about Gujarat riots as a "reaction" for Godhra? Do you think God approves such “reaction”? If you want to be on the side of God, you have unequivocally condemn it. All the God-talk has no value whatsoever unless one takes a stand on the side of truth/justice/right.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Dec 18, 2008 12:00 AM
36
>>>> Fatwas can be overruled or terminated.
>>by whom?
>>"By higher seminarians, e.g the ones in Deoband".

Is Deoband's stand against terrr binding on the ISI in pak training terrrists for attacking india? or indian simians planning further blasts somewhere else the cuntry?

I have no objection to be called assaadri or veshadri by those who disagree with my views.

The only reason I use the word 'churchianity' instead of christianity is bec I regard christ as divinity to be revered, he did NOT ask that leaflets saying krishna is rapist shuld be distributed. I have high respect for devout christians; my opposition is only to the churchians who have made conversion a paid profession; hence I use the word churchianity, instead of the word christianity. Perhaps only asses have such sensitivity, not humans like Anwar.

Similarly, islam, for me, is eeSa-laya-mata, moslem is mukta-sreemaan, I have only respect for purely devout moslems. Kabir was one, as also shirdi sai baaba. When terrorists strike in the name of this religion, based on khud-aaneeta-psaama, quraan, sama-veda-wisdom brought voluntarily by naarada to ravan born in repentance as nabhi, I shudder to call these murderers 'islamists'; only jislamist, meaning 'jihadi islamists' would be appropriate.

For me God = Siva = Allah = Christ. I will not be a party to denigrate Him on any of the above or other names for Him. You are welcome to call me an ass or mouse or whatever!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 18, 2008 12:00 AM
35
Seshadri,

>>>> Fatwas can be overruled or terminated.
>>by whom?

By higher seminarians, e.g the ones in Deoband.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
34
>>"Fatwas can be overruled or terminated"

by whom? is there a super-mulla caliph, like pope for catholics?
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
33
Wow, very nice. I hope other madrassahs also follow Anwarul-Islam Salfia's example. UP is India's heartland (although the state is economically BIMARU) and it has a large number of Muslims. I hope they get inspired by Anwarul and show the rest of Indian Muslims the right way.
ARVIND
ROCHESTER, United States
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
32
Seshadri,

>> if every fatwa by every mulla becomes quranic law equal to the message given to nabhi...

That is not true. Fatwas can be overruled or terminated. Thank God for that, because there are just too many semi-educated mullahs running around issuing crazy fatwas.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
31
Seshadri,

>> He seems to have one persnal religion of his own: 'hate hindus in general, ass-Seshadri in particular'.

You lie again. I have never said anything bad about Hinduism. Criticizing the sangh parivar is not the same as criticizing Hinduism. I call you Ass-Seshadri only when you use nelogisms such as Jislam and Churchianity.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
30
>> pseudo harmony!! nothing else...

True in a sense. All that is required for harmony is a simple realization that one needs to stand for the justice/dignity/rights of fellow beings.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
29
NBMN:>>""Fatwa No. : 90584
Fatwa Title : Punishment of an apostate
Fatwa Date : 28 Sha'baan 1426 / 02-10-2005"

if every fatwa by every mulla becomes quranic law equal to the message given to nabhi by gabriel, given the poor quality of the fatwa-issuinf mullahs also, then why is so much importance given to the nabhi as the last prophet? Has sanity taken leave of the educated moslems also?.

God must have His reasons for such things happening. Perhaps, this will help all the non-moslems of the world, of various other relig come into harmony, seeing one merciful God behind all of them. Saner moslems may follow suit in slower streams.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
28
pseudo harmony!! nothing else...
Pradeep Sharma
Mumbai, India
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
27
Kumar:>>"Neither Quran nor Slokas may be required as a primary formal education at school at elementary school level (or even high school level). The education given at school should help the child grow to become empowered adults who can speak for themselves".

You are right. Youngsters can best learn their religion, culture, from parents, families, until they grow up. Adults can learn about all religions from reading books, as grown-ups, voluntary changes also can also be permitted only for adults. Comparative study of religions left to mature scholars in philosophy depts of graduate schools.

>>"Every religion should be prepared to answer to criticism and such attack"

Yes. Some relief from dogmatism to universal humanmism as basis fr all religion could result.

>>"Why assume one way?"

I would not have commented, if the statement had simply been that all kids in madarsas are taught sansk slokas also; but was surprised that hindu students were admitted in madarsas and specially taught the quran! Moslem students unlikely to convert to hinduism, even aft learning slokas; but, poor hindu students, if they go to madarsas mainly for the free food, [hindu schools, convents having become commercial and expensive], conversion incentives, at the end of the courses, could be there. In some of the chr colleges I have known, permanent faculty jobs are given only to christians. Our 'secular' gvts do not interfere in minority inst, their nepotism only on hindu institutions.

To my knowledge, hindu NGOs help only in rectifying conversions of hindu-tribals and dalits thro leaflets, incentives, not for conv of genuine chr or mosl to hinduism.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
26
Anwar seems to be not a moslem by religion. He seems to have one persnal religion of his own:
'hate hindus in general, ass-Seshadri in particular'. 'Hate-Krishna' was the personal religion of SiSupala!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
25
An interesting article. Clearly what this Madarsa has done is with good intentions and should be appreciated.
Criticism like Gita should be tought or science should be tought are not without merit and could well be the next steps. Though Gita in Sanskrit can be studied only after Sanskrit is known and science instead of faith should be studied is a view point-each has a right to set up schools as it considers better for mankind.



Atul Chandra
mUMBAI, INDIA
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
24
Its time to close all madarsas. To become a global power we need more scientic and technical manpower not some religious scholars.
Rupesh
Pune, India
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
23
'There is a good study waiting to be done comparing the employment levels, educational services and municipal services in Dalit residential areas and Muslim areas between 1947 and 2007.

Even without empirical data I can assert that there is a sharp improvement in the former and stagnation if not decline in the latter. The Dalit has punished neglect. The tribal has learnt to vote on the sensible planks of development and security: he knows that he cannot eat rice, at whatever price it is offered, unless he is alive. The Muslim has crawled repeatedly back into the sterile womb of fear. That womb will deliver nothing. The midwives of this vote fatten on fees collected by periodic declarations of false pregnancy.'

Muslims,Seculars and Columinists preaching fear wherever ,whenever and in whichever forum are as culpable and guilty as the Politicans are.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
22
"Fettered by fear, Muslims fritter away their vote
14 Dec 2008, 0015 hrs IST, M J Akbar

Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:



Indian Muslims will get development the day they vote for development. For sixty years they have voted out of fear, so that is what they have got
from those they elected: the politics of fear. Fear is the menu, recipe and diet: and the Muslim voter laps it up with the appetite of the traumatized.

Fact and fiction are employed seamlessly in the advertising of fear. A history of riot, and the threat from organizations like the Bajrang Dal are sewn into wild conspiracy theories by ‘leaders’ of the community to shape minds on the eve of an election. I could not believe some of what I heard after the terrorist attacks in Mumbai. One was utterly aghast to hear, during a public gathering of some very worthy persons, the suggestion that we could not be sure that the terrorists had come from Pakistan. It was an appalling exercise in denial by mindsets that had either been unhinged or had turned utterly manipulative.

For secular politicians, the Muslim vote comes at an easy exchange rate. Other communities demand rice and roads. The Muslim needs nothing more than the old ploy used to help children go to sleep: stories of ghosts and monsters at the door.

When the community wakes up after sleepwalking to the polling booth, and demands legitimate needs like jobs for the young and health clinics for women, the politicians offer a large shoulder on which they can weep. No other segment of the Indian electorate can be appeased by a sob story.

Politicians will always maximize the spread of assets at their disposal in the search for an extra vote; why should they waste economic benefits on a voter who will sway to the whine of emotions rather than take a cold count of schools and sanitation? There is now a disconnect between Muslims and the benefits of democracy, a break engineered by community opinion-makers who get rewarded for such services with little dollops that wind up into their personal assets.

Fear used to be a factor with some other communities as well, particularly Dalits and tribals. Humiliation and exploitation were a constant of their experience. But they have moved on, either by asserting themselves through their own political formations or by maximizing the price of their support where parties like the BSP or Jharkhand Mukti Morcha do not exist. The sharpest player of this intelligent game is Mayawati. The results are evident. There is a good study waiting to be done comparing the employment levels, educational services and municipal services in Dalit residential areas and Muslim areas between 1947 and 2007.

Even without empirical data I can assert that there is a sharp improvement in the former and stagnation if not decline in the latter. The Dalit has punished neglect. The tribal has learnt to vote on the sensible planks of development and security: he knows that he cannot eat rice, at whatever price it is offered, unless he is alive. The Muslim has crawled repeatedly back into the sterile womb of fear. That womb will deliver nothing. The midwives of this vote fatten on fees collected by periodic declarations of false pregnancy."


http://timesofindia.ind...articleshow/3833792.cms

a k ghai
mumbai, India
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
21
"Fettered by fear, Muslims fritter away their vote :

Fear locks and freezes the mind. A closed mind can never liberate a community from poverty "
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
20
Thanks for bringing out this story. We need more of these from the mainstream media.
Siva
Dallas, USA
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
19
Pathetic comparison
Sanskrit learnign== Quran learning..

someone tell this moron writer Geeta leraning is equal to quran learnign not sanskrit learning
Rahul
Delhi, India
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
18
Pathetic comparison
Sanskrit learnign== Quran learning..

someone tell this moron writer Geeta leraning is equal to quran learnign not sanskrit learning
Rahul
Delhi, India
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
17
Pathetic comparison
Sanskrit learnign== Quran learning..

someone tell this moron writer Geeta leraning is equal to quran learnign not sanskrit learning
Rahul
Delhi, India
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
16
Pathetic comparison
Sanskrit learnign== Quran learning..

someone tell this moron writer Geeta leraning is equal to quran learnign not sanskrit learning
Rahul
Delhi, India
Dec 17, 2008 12:00 AM
15
Pathetic comparison
Sanskrit learnign== Quran learning..

someone tell this moron writer Geeta leraning is equal to quran learnign not sanskrit learning
Rahul
Delhi, India
Dec 16, 2008 12:00 AM
14
>>If Muslim children are also learning Hindu scriptures, the chance of Muslim kids becoming Hindu should also be there, at least in a place like India where such freedom exists?

LOL. Anyone who leaves Islam is considered an apostate and is beheaded at the first available oppurtunity by teh believers.There are numerous fatwas confirming this.
"Fatwa No. : 90584
Fatwa Title : Punishment of an apostate
Fatwa Date : 28 Sha'baan 1426 / 02-10-2005
Question

Please advise me on Muslims who converted their religion to Christianity. What is the role of Islam on this matter and how Muslims must react? In case, if they refuse to return to Islam. What is the sentence? Please advise as soon as possible.
Fatwa

All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) is His slave and Messenger.



If a Muslim apostates, he will be called for three days to repent, then if he repents, [and therefore re-embraces Islam] this is acceptable from him, otherwise he should be killed, and this is the religious ruling according to Islamic Law. The Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." [Al-Bukhaari] Moreover, Imaam Maalik may Allaah have mercy upon him reported that 'Umar may Allaah be pleased with him said regarding a man who apostated and was killed: "Why did you not lock him for three days, and feed him a loaf of bread every day and call him to repent, as he might have repented and returned to Allaah's Commandments."

Therefore, whoever apostates, must be called to repent for three days, and then if he repents, that is acceptable from him, otherwise he should be killed."

http://www.islamweb.net...Id=90584&Option=FatwaId
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Dec 16, 2008 12:00 AM
13
Neither Quran nor Slokas may be required as a primary formal education at school at elementary school level (or even high school level). The education given at school should help the child grow to become empowered adults who can speak for themselves.

>> mosl kids are taught slokas to learn to make fun of them, like HF on these columns;

Even if that is the intent (which seems not the case in this place at least), what is so scary about that? Every religion should be prepared to answer to criticism and such attack. It is not possible to keep the scriptures inaccessible nor can anyone forcibly suppress criticism. There are those who are still trying to suppress, but it is only a matter of time. There are many who read the Bible, Quran, Hindu scriptures and criticize them. Every religion has to be prepared to face it.
The Medieval institutional church wanted to suppress all criticism and wanted to make scriptures inaccessible to the masses. They did for several centuries as along as they could. And finally when they could no longer do it, the criticism actually helped the church to come out of the dark ages. A similar thing has happened with Hinduism as well. In many ways, this is an ongoing process, with some “violent reactions” and fringe extremists here and there by those who feel threatened. This is a phenomenon that has not happened with Islam much. There are reasons why it may be more difficult with Islam as the problematic aspects are too much hard-wired into the religion from the very beginning, but it has to happen one way or the other.

>> hindu kids taught only kuran, so that they will come out converts to islam, for polygamic privileges

If Muslim children are also learning Hindu scriptures, the chance of Muslim kids becoming Hindu should also be there, at least in a place like India where such freedom exists? (for some privilege or for no material privilege at all).
And alternatively the hindu kids learning Quran can use the knowledge to 'make fun' or criticize like many are doing here? Why assume only one way?
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Dec 16, 2008 12:00 AM
12
Seshadri,

>> If those who running your madarsas are really god-blessed peacemakers...

"If this and if that", instead of appreciating something good when you encounter it, even if it is just a first step, is the reason I said that you are not a peace maker, but just a cantankerous and bigoted trouble maker.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 16, 2008 12:00 AM
11
AP::>>"Blessed are the peace makers, but you are not one of them".

If those who running your madarsas are really god-blessed peacemakers, they will admit all kids from all religions and teach all of them the geeta, quran, bible, kural and the guru-granth, not selectively teach diff books to diff relig groups.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 16, 2008 12:00 AM
10
Refreshing article. I hope there are many such madrasas. It will put both Hindu and Muslim extremists out of business.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Dec 16, 2008 12:00 AM
9
AP:>>"They thus prohibited Jews and Muslims from worshipping idols".

treating moslems and jews on par in one sentence!
Al quida may blast your CAIR, any time, now!

>>"But when it comes to other religions,
Mohammed's words were, "For you your religion and for me mine."

IF true, islamists who attacked india and destroyed hindu temples, buddh statues were not mohammedans!.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM
8
AP:>>"Mutual appreciation of each other's cultures"

Yes, if both hindu kids and moslem kids read the quran and the gita, together. But, the info given is that mosl kids are taught slokas to learn to make fun of them, like HF on these columns; hindu kids taught only kuran, so that they will come out converts to islam, for polygamic privileges after completion of studies.

Some studies are reqd to observe the overall effects of such operations, over time. I do not see why hindu kids need to go to madarsas, avoiding govt schools. Is the UP govt forcing them, to please moslem votebanks? Hindu NGOs in UP should examine what is happening on the ground.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM
7
Seshadri,

>> Mosl kids learning sans slokas will make fun of it, like Hard Facts on these clumns. Hindu kids reading quran will be encouraged to convert on growing up, for polygamic privileges.

Paranoid as usual! Even when you hear some good news, you will try to find something wrong with it. Blessed are the peace makers, but you are not one of them.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM
6
NJ;>>"Muslim children study Sanskrit and Hindu ones read Quran in these UP madrassas"

Danger signal for hinduism. Mosl kids learning sans slokas will make fun of it, like Hard Facts on these clumns. Hindu kids reading quran will be encouraged to convert on growing up, for polygamic privileges. paatu nah purushottamah!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM
5
Ghai,

>> Prayers by Muslims before Kaba Black stone are as good as Hindus' moorthy Pooja.

Although Kaaba is not worshipped as God but as a monument associated with Abraham who was one of the prophets of Jews and Muslims, I do agree with you that this is not a matter that should cause an argument between us. What is holy to you is holy to you, and what is holy to us is holy to us. Abraham and Mohammed both destroyed idols. They thus prohibited Jews and Muslims from worshipping idols. But when it comes to other religions, Mohammed's words were, "For you your religion and for me mine."
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM
4
"It is considered holy because Abraham and his sons Isaac and Ishmael worshipped there. Abraham is the ancestor of all Jews and Arabs."

Faruki and Azeem sahib

1. Prayers by Muslims before Kaba Black stone are as good as Hindus' moorthy Pooja ??

Even if we reason out that prayers at Kaba were not supposed to be stone worship still they have now become equivalent to Hindus' Stone worship .Isn't ?

2.If black stone can be revered by Islam then why Sunnies oppose the Darghas ?

Shias and Sufies are condmned by Sunnies as grave Worshippers how are Dunnies different for their love for black stone ??

4. Can any Muslim who has performed Haj can truthfully and honestly say there is no ShivLing type some small stone in Kaba ?

I will accept .

5.Islam says God is every where then why prayers at Kaba or Haj Yatra mandatory or why prayers in a Masjid ? One can pray any where feeling h epresence of Allah .

6. Why only pray facing Kaba and why not facing anyother direction ? This idol worshipping .

Could be that with passage of time the Muslim stoo have Idol worshippers ??
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM
3
BAN BRAINWASHING!
CELEBRATE LIFE!


And severely PUNISH ALL forms of mental abuse of young boys as MISANDRY!

Parthasarathy reborn
Chennai, India
Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM
2
I enjoyed reading this article. Mutual appreciation of each other's cultures is more typical of India than the chauvinistic "we are better than you" mantra.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM
1
Very nice. I hope someday they can see their way to throwing out both slokas and Quran from the syllabus and instead bringing in science, mathematics, English, geography and the like. Now that would be progress.
Biswapriya Purkayastha
Shillong, India
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