Response
An Open Letter To Arundhati Roy
To call the foreign funded insurgency in Kashmir and the terror attacks across the country as justified blowback for the failures of the Indian state and civil society is both false and callous. It implies a failure of the imagination and the intellect and the complete abdication of moral responsibility by you.
Dear Ms Roy,

For many years now you have enriched the public life of our nation. First, as a Booker winning novelist with a meteoric debut on the literary firmament, and then as an essayist, persistently pricking the conscience of a sometimes indifferent and ignorant nation, highlighting wide ranging issues of urgent concern. Over the years your provocative essays in the pages of Outlook magazine amount to a substantial intellectual achievement in their own right. One has not always agreed with you, but from big dams to the nuclear bomb, from the vagaries of capitalism to the dangers of American Imperialism, your writings on these important issues have left no one in any doubt about where you stand. Disagree with them as one might, your views occupied an intellectually coherent and morally compelling space in our public life. Until recently, when one read your two pieces on Kashmir and Mumbai with a growing sense of shock, anger, pity and dismay.

As a literary device, self loathing has its uses; the God of Small Things was a splendid lesson in the use of this sentiment. However I am not sure that nations and civilizations can organize their policies around this self indulgent mood. Your two pieces, 'Azadi' and '9 is Not 11' see you as usual in top form as far as style and rhetoric are concerned, but as far as substance goes, I think you have fallen into the trap of being in love with the sound and significance of your own voice. It is still a powerful voice, a seductive voice too, but because it chooses to amplify only those other voices that are prepared to sing in chorus, it is a voice bereft of any sense of moral responsibility. I am sure once again your latest writings will bring you further international recognition as a writer of conscience and conviction, striving tirelessly to expose the monstrosities of the Indian state and civilization. Dare I suggest that the Magsaysay and the Nobel Peace Prize, the Holy Grails of the seemingly rootless international intellectual might not be too far behind? But Madam, despite your great charm and greater intellect, this is a Faustian bargain. For in doing so you are doing irreparable harm to the very idea of the intellectual as a defender of virtue and morality in public life who too, like the problems you write about, much as he or she would want to, cannot be removed from the context (your favourite word) that created her, nurtured her and accorded the civic and intellectual space for her to articulate and propagate her views.

As someone who for the past 12 years has worn the Khaki uniform, as a servant of your favourite object of hate, the Indian state, I confess to a persistent sense of ambivalence and despair about the manner in which I am expected to serve. At the same time I cannot deny an equally abiding sense of pride in the importance of what we are supposed to do and of the importance of institutions in general in giving meaning and protection to what would otherwise be a society ruthless and brutal, beyond even your considerable powers of comprehension and description. Therefore, I am offended and disgusted by your incomplete, incoherent and therefore immoral portrayal of the recent upheavals of Indian history. I used to think that you articulate the pain of the silent, marginalized, oppressed masses of our country. I had no idea that you held a brief for all those who never felt anything at all not just for India in particular, but who also actively profess violent rage at the shared values of the entire human race.

According to you, everything that the police and security forces do or say whether in Kashmir, or in the war on terror, or against Naxalism, is a falsehood, where as everything that is said by 'Kashmiri Freedom Fighters', or by the harmless theologians of the Lashkar-e-Toiba and their ideological cousins of the Al Qaeda, or by the peace loving disciples of Marx and Mao living a bucolic existence in the jungles of central India, constitutes sufficient grounds to indict the Indian state and civil society in perpetuity. The people of India have always had a tradition to look up to men and woman of the arts and culture to serve as their moral compass. One really wonders what lines of logic and ethics shape your sense of moral direction.

You seem to passionately believe in and defend the 'right' of the Kashmiris to ethnic, cultural, religious and geographical exclusivism. If this is correct than why should we vilify Raj Thackeray or any other chauvinist who seeks to preserve the purity (however defined) of his people (however defined) from outsiders (also however defined)? If the Kashmiris are justified in picking up the gun to safeguard their exclusive identity, then every part of India is justified in doing so. I do hope you have taken the trouble to examine the fundamental assumptions underlying all such movements based on an assertion of a cultural identity. The creation of a hated outsider, in the case of Kashmir, the Indian; in the case of Raj Thackeray, the bhaiya of UP and Bihar; and in the case of the jihadists, anyone and everyone who does not subscribe to their virulent strain of Islam, including Muslims, is common to all these ideologies but you seem to pick and choose the bigotries you will demonize and the bigotries you will defend. Is it possible to freeze identity to a moment in time and on the basis of this demand recognition, retribution and rights for all time to come?

In your world view, the wrongs of Indian security forces of the last twenty years, and the failures of Indian state craft before it, are sufficient justifications for Kashmiri grievances, just as the wrongs of Babri Masjid, the Mumbai riots of 1993, the Gujarat riots of 2002, will justify Islamist terror against India, and the wrongs of corrupt governance and poor administration will justify Naxalite violence, in all perpetuity. Why should only these events be accepted as justification for settling scores by shedding the blood of innocents? By this logic, the Crucifixion of Christ amply justifies the Holocaust. We non white societies must all be allowed eternal rights to slaughter the Europeans for the sins of colonialism and slavery. Islam itself had a long history of violent conquest and forcible conversions, perhaps that should justify an eternal crusade or dharmyudhh against Islam? The Greeks and Romans have their own scores to settle with the Christian Church. The Latin Americans have their own grievances with Spain and Portugal. Seen this way, human history is merely a parody of the eternal theme of perpetrators and victims, and all present violence, no matter how barbaric or senseless, can be justified with reference to some past grievance, and we must allow these grievances full expression no matter what. Only then would we return to a state of original purity where all historical sins of the past and present have been fully avenged and the moral ledger as you see it stands perfectly balanced. The only thing is that after this bloody book-keeping, there may not be anyone left to enjoy the fruits of such a 'just' society.

The Indian state, whose sworn servant I am, is by no means a perfect entity. It is certainly corrupt, it is sometimes brutal and it is often indifferent to the sufferings of the weak and the powerless. But it does have a vision and aim based on certain civilizational values that are uniquely Indian. Demography and history dictates that these values have a prominently Hindu flavour. It is undeniable that these values have come under attack at times from the Hindu right as well. But even the most rabid of the Hindutva forces do not see the world united under the saffron flag by force of arms, as is the Islamist project of one world under the Green Crescent, or the Naxal project of one world under the Red Star. It would take a pretty breathless and brainless leap of logic to equate violent, local outbursts of Hindu chauvinism, abetted by the sins of commission and omission of the state apparatus, in themselves however repugnant and indefensible, with the atrocities on a global scale that were inflicted by Communism in the 20th century or the outrages that are now threatened across all parts of the world by jihadi Islam. To call the foreign funded insurgency in Kashmir and the terror attacks across the country as justified blowback for the failures of the Indian state and civil society is both false and callous. It implies a failure of the imagination and the intellect and the complete abdication of moral responsibility by you.

One could indeed forgive you, Ma'am, if you were purely an artist. Art has at the best of times a complicated relationship with truth and life. But in your avatar as a public intellectual, you cannot abandon your commitment to the demands of truth, accuracy and the ability to discriminate between the varieties of human experience and action. The liberties you have exercised in the past and continue to do today, however gratuitously and offensively, do not exist in a vacuum. I am not sure if any of these liberties would have a place in a Naxalite Utopia or a Jihadi Caliphate or even in a self-determined Kashmiri paradise that you eloquently espoused. As visions of human perfectability they are far more flawed than the vision of India that you love to denigrate. In any case, the liberties that you have recently taken with the sensibilities of proud Indians too exist in a cultural, political and constitutional context, a context that is ultimately safeguarded by men such as Hemant Karkare and Major Unnikrishnan with disregard for their own life. Remember that the next time you use your poisoned pen to vent your twisted logic on a polity that deserves better from its intellectuals.

Warm regards
Abhinav Kumar


Abhinav Kumar is a serving IPS officer. Though these are his personal views, he hopes that they also reflect the anguish of an entire fraternity of proud Indians in uniform

 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Jul 08, 2009 12:00 AM
460
Its clear from the article how our IPS officers justified the wrongs perpetuated on our defenceless society, with their so called sense of history, nationalism and sweeping arguments against any and every idea which shows them their true and ugly face in the mirror. Keep it up Arundhati Roy, thousands of small and unheard voices are counting on you.
khalid
darwin, Australia
Mar 11, 2009 12:00 AM
459
It was rather tedious wading through 3 pages of inanities, to finally read the last 2-3 lines where you grudgingly conferred the 'intellectual' status on Ms. Roy. Too bad, we could have been done with the article in 2 lines, had those been your opening lines.
Nitin Khanna
La Madera, NM, United States
Feb 15, 2009 12:00 AM
458
>> “Thanks for pointing that out. I was in error. See how easy it is to admit an error?”

I appreciate it, Mr. Anwar.

dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Feb 15, 2009 12:00 AM
457
Dip,

>> “A blockbuster of an article".

Thanks for pointing that out. I was in error. See how easy it is to admit an error?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Feb 15, 2009 12:00 AM
456
Anwar,

Dip: >> who glorified the essay as a “BLOCKBUSTER”!

Anwar: >>Another lie!

Now just see what Mr. Anwar Patel said on “9 is not 11”:

Daily Letters | 13 Dec, 2008 02:47:36PM (IST)
“A blockbuster of an article, discussing the nature of terrorism while forcing us to look at ourselves in the mirror… “
ANWAR PATEL
DALLAS TX UNITED STATES
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Feb 15, 2009 12:00 AM
455
Dip,

>> who glorified the essay as a “BLOCKBUSTER”!

Another lie!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Feb 15, 2009 12:00 AM
454

Anwar,

>> Compunding a lie with calumny!

It’s a lie for a pretender and a true accusation to someone, once who glorified the essay as a “BLOCKBUSTER”! Your support was so blind!!
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Feb 15, 2009 12:00 AM
453
Dip,

>> Your unending support to an immoral essay.

Compunding a lie with calumny!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Feb 15, 2009 12:00 AM
452
Anwar,

>>A lie is a lie.

I am surprised by your unending support to an immoral essay. First understand the inner meaning of my post and don’t behave like a robotic lie detector.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Feb 15, 2009 12:00 AM
451
Dip,

>> It was just a failed metaphorical attempt to lighten the grimness of Mumbai attack.

A lie is a lie.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Feb 14, 2009 12:00 AM
450
Anwar,

>> “Just don't attribute to her (Arundhati Roy) what she never said.”

I am sticking to my point and I always will. It was just a failed metaphorical attempt to lighten the grimness of Mumbai attack that killed about 200 people of your beloved land. Multiply the number with minimum 4 as their family members, and you will get 800 people who have lost their loved ones.

Your indulgence
will only make her a more venal writer.
If you are a truth seeker just press
“Ctrl+ F5”
then save my opinion in your brain.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Feb 14, 2009 12:00 AM
449
Dip,

>> She (Arundhati) argued lots of issues to hide the crime.

Just don't attribute to her what she never said.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Feb 14, 2009 12:00 AM
448
Anwar,

>> “I don't think she said that”

She argued lots of issues to hide the crime. If the juice is sweetened too much with added sugar, you add water to neutralize it. That was one of her watering, a failed metaphorical attempt to lighten the grim.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Feb 13, 2009 12:00 AM
447
“Pak admission on Mumbai attacks first important step: US”
-timesofindia-


The curtains are moving away one by one
and we do not see ironically any repenting antel (pseudo-intellectual).
The blockbuster writers are busy now
to hide their dried out pens.
May be they are just lying in wait
in order to assault the susceptible minds
of mass people in forthcoming deadly operations.

Remember, We already have the threats.

These intractable pseudos
will now come up with other copiously written essays only to support their misleads.
But look before you leap
as this sub-continent is now
in a predicament.

dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Feb 13, 2009 12:00 AM
446
Ghai,

>> Antulay plus one more UPA Muslim Minister ,Neelab Misra and quite a big chunk of Psecus darkly hinted that the 26/11 was the job done by the Hindus.

Antulay never questioned Pakistan's being responsible for the Mumbai attack. However he hinted at a separate and simultaneous mini-plot targetting Karkare. I do not believe that, but some Muslims still do.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Feb 13, 2009 12:00 AM
445
Dip,

>> Arundhati and Co’s failed attempt to illustrate the attack as the struggle of the proletariats.

I don't think she said that.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Feb 13, 2009 12:00 AM
444
Arunaditi ,Antulay plus one more UPA Muslim Minister ,Neelab Misra and quite a big chunk of Psecus darkly hinted that the 26/11 was the job done by the Hindus .Now Pakistan has finally owned up the involvement of Pakistanies .There is no mention of any Hindu in any report.

This shows how mercilessly Arunaditi and a few writer like Neelab are exploiting the freedom of expression in the space provided by The Outlook India .Is there any accountability here Mr.Mehta ??
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Feb 13, 2009 12:00 AM
443
"Pak Partially Owns Up 26/11, India Calls it Positive"
-outlookindia-

This positivity carries the most negativity for Pakistan. And thus the pick pocket saviors like Arundhati and Co’s failed attempt to illustrate the attack as the struggle of the proletariats has been dismissed.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Feb 10, 2009 12:00 AM
442
Excellent.
MAMUNURU SHANKAR
Hyderabad, India
Feb 01, 2009 12:00 AM
441
"Abhinav Kumar is a serving IPS officer. Though these are his personal views, he hopes that they also reflect the anguish of an entire fraternity of proud Indians in uniform "

He hopes , & he does
mihir
mumbai, India
Jan 17, 2009 12:00 AM
440
Good message, Addy. Once again, common people, including persons of Indian origin, can be counted on to display more wisdom and common sense that Indian intellectuals/jholawalas and social activists. Enough is indeed enough. Yes, that has to be said, regardless of whether the Prashant Bhushan's and Praful Bidwai's dislike and disparage it.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Jan 14, 2009 12:00 AM
439
Excellent article. I live in UK but have my roots in India and I was a bit depressed, disoriented and furious at the events that have unfolded India and in the world during last couple of months.I am sick of listening that everytime a "self staged mega event" like blasts or killing takes place it is being justified by them as the revenge acts. Is there any meter to gauge that now all the acts of hatred have been revenged and from now on there will be no violence and no innocent will ever be killed if you have a Caliphate? Your justifications vindicate an average Indian's thought and the very concept of India (and even West). We have to forgive (not forget) the past mistakes and move forward never giving undue importance to anyone (Muslim or not) who propagates that they are avenging wrongs done in the past. Thanks again for the article - I read articles with an open mind and Arundhati Roy is just making me depressed. She is just taking advantage of the freedom that she would have never been entitled to her version of the world -- I just feel that she is in a wrong country or needs a tour to a "right" country to get her facts right.
addy dave
London, United Kingdom
Jan 04, 2009 12:00 AM
438
There are some exceptions, Banito
who believe in – live and let live !


http://www.bt.com.bn/en.../towards_a_new_pakistan


Let us hope that this silent/honest
minority (regarding conscience)
of Pakistan gains more strength.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Jan 03, 2009 12:00 AM
437
dip

dhakka

it is informative-

however the muslim world is silent.

look at the uproar wrt malegaon,where 6 people were killed by hindu nonstate actors.

the killings in bd were organised by the
pakistani army and govt.

as a north indian i am well aware of the arrogance of punjabi muslims. i know that they look down on bengalis, who are not tall and strong like them, and use a nonislamic language.

there is lesser prejudice of this kind between different communities in india.there is discrimination against dalits, but all of us
are aware of this and wish to make amends.

uptil today pakistani,s have not admitted the
killings ,rape and torture they were guilty of.

these scum bags can commit all sorts of kinds,
and forget all about it in a second.

this is the worst about pakis. they behave as barbarians, and lack the man hood to accept their
guilt.

we have examples of such kind in this forum.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Jan 03, 2009 12:00 AM
436
3/1/09

Banito

This is for you
- some facts about Muktijudhdho (freedom fight)


http://en.wikipedia.org...ngladesh_Liberation_War


General Muslims of Bangladesh
are not at all fanatic. Progressive minded
Muslims are dominant here, please do not blend
them with Pakis or Arabs. They love India. I can
understand your feelings but that was generated
by the propaganda the nationalist parties made as
they enjoyed power for the maximum period of time
after liberation. Muslims are over sensitive about their religion (that is a minus for them!). The nationalist parties
always tried to dope them with vulnerability of Islam
pointing at India as a threat – always.

But, at the extreme rise of terrorism world-wide-
our progressive dominant part has awakened up.
They are in power in Dec 2008’s election with massive majority as secularism as their base.
That is a real proof – general people want
progression not destruction.

Bangladeshis are grateful to India as they
helped us by laying their lives! Helped 1 lac
refugees at the time of liberation period.

Oh, yes! You need other proof?
watch a Pakistan – India match in Bangladesh
- the support is 50-50 !
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Jan 03, 2009 12:00 AM
435
Varun,

>> the trouble with Roy's article is that it is an 'everything under the sun' type diatribe.

You ought to read it more carefully.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jan 03, 2009 12:00 AM
434
dip

dhakka

the information you provide-if correct- shows
that west pakistani,s were very horrid with their muslim brothers in bengal.

all this talk about equality in islam is farsical. arabs look down on blacks- this is a
fact. killings in darfur is a shocking case of
genocide.

we hindus are made to apologise and be ashamed about our ugly realities, this we do, and quite often.

muslims deny it ,and when any ugly practice is mentioned they go into a mad frenzy.

one example was the reaction to the popes comments about mohammet. all hell broke loose.

thanks for bringing in the truth of pakistani
crimes in bd.

strange however that bd,s still love pakis, and dislike us indians.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Jan 02, 2009 12:00 AM
433
2/1/09
“PAKISTAN THEN’

Denied East Pakistanis (now Bangladesh) in 1952 to speak in their own language – Bengali
Propagated Tagore song as the song of ‘Kafirs” and banned
Denied Mujib’s recognition when he got massive majority in December 1970’s election
Killed 30 lac Bengalis
Raped 2 lac women
Created – BANGLADESH

“PAKISTAN RECENT PAST’

Denied attack on Indian Parliament
Denied all terror attack initiated by them

“PAKISTAN TODAY’

Masood Azhar Not in Pak Custody
Terrorists are stateless actors
……………………………………

What will they sacrifice now?
The history of unbelievable trickery is endless.

Unfortunately, they do not possess
any ownership for their country.

dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Jan 02, 2009 12:00 AM
432
"Chandrasekaran" of Chennai, the trouble with Roy's article is that it is an 'everything under the sun' type diatribe. Roy is saying that 'Okay, Mumbai is bad, but so is Narmada, Casteism, Dowry deaths, Roop Kanwar, corruption and spitting on the streets".
Is this really the time for attacking all the injustices and inadequacies in India? India has just been subject to a foreign military operation against its largest city. India has to find ways and means of punishing and isolating the caountry perpetrating the outrage. Not list off violence and injustices in Indian society as in "In the village of Balrampur on March 17th, a poor landless peasant was beaten up for stealing an orange" Deal with that separately!
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Jan 02, 2009 12:00 AM
431
The article "An Open Letter to Arundhati Roy" doesn't sound like a response to the original article at all. There are so many points raised in the original article which are not directly countered. On reading the original article, nowhere one gets the impression that the author is "defending" any form of bigotry or "justifying" terrorism. Not sure what makes Mr. Abhinav Kumar draw a different conclusion. "9 is not 11" should be read as nothing more than an attempt to get responsible citizens thinking along a different angle rather than being carried away by the mindless frenzy created by the television news channels.
Chandrasekaran
Chennai, India
Jan 01, 2009 12:00 AM
430
A fitting response! Many thanks Mr. Abhinav Kumar for responding with such clarity, depth and eloquence. You have indeed spoken for many Indians. The recent J&K elections and voter turnout are further evidence that the Indian way is more inclusive and acceptable than the terrorists way of doing things. And you're right when you say Ms.Roy selects the bigotries to defend or demonise - what about the half a million Kashmiri Hindus living in exile? and a similar number murdered by jihadists? and what about India's long support to Tibetans in the face Chinese aggression? what was baby Moshe's fault in all this?

Ms.Roy needs to take a wider, deeper, longer view in her essays - the latest one is at best knee jerk.
Rajesh Chary
Mumbai, India
Dec 31, 2008 12:00 AM
429
Varun:>>" question of why some countries, like India, suffer so much from it, while other do not. China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia and Myanmar are all repressive, , dictatorial countries, yet you hardly see any terrorist violence directed against them".

The reason is obvious. Terrorist violence in india, only by islamist jihadis in pak and india, is mainly funded only by the oil-money surpluses available in many islamic countries, unhappy over a hindu majority in india, instead of moslem majority like in iran or afghan.

Perhaps, the nature of the election results, in kashmir, ktka and bangladesh, seems to indicate some reduction in such money-flows into the sub-continent, due to a factor-of-four fall in oil prices, internationally over the last six months.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
428
And what Brian Miller in Japan has, together with Arundhati Roy, totally missed is the question of Why India, and Why so often? If, following Roy, the reason is repression and persecution, then China, North Korea, Malaysia, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Fiji should all have experienced multiple terrorist bombings and massacres on their respective soil. But they haven't! Historically too, there were bigoted, repressive colonial regimes, such as the Portuguese in Goa, that didn't face anything even remotely resembling what India is going through presently. If Roy thinks her ideas are so correct, how does she explain that?
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
427
LBMN,

>> The point is Supreme court did not say it.

The point is that the supreme court did not say whether Hindutva is or is not a political ideology.

>> It defined what hindutva means.

It is not a word defining body. Its 'definition' was just an explanation of why it had reached the decision that it had reached, namely that Hindutva, under the election law, is not a religion.

>> They certainly are , as per the supreme court.

So you are saying that beef eating is part of 'Hindutva'. Tell it to the VHP!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
426
Quite a comprehensive list of motives there, Dip from Dhaka! It's absolutely astounding the amount of obfuscation, escapism and intellectual dishonesty that has been displayed by a number of Indians and non-Indians alike. Many of these are just pusillanimous excuses for India not to act in some way, whether politically or economically.While others are motivated ideological positions, trying to fit everything into the context of anti-imperialism, anti-communalism, anti-Israel, anti-US, anti-neo Con etc. What's lost sight of is that, in Mumbai last month, India was a victim of a bunch of brainwashed, hate-crazed, murderous foreigners who were trained by the military of a foreign country.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
425
Mr. Varun
Read it as:

...it covers the 360 degree dimension of anti Indian...
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
424
30/12/08

>>”Apart from the fact that terrorism such as Mumbai is not really a local contextual issue, since it was a foreign attack against India, there is also the whole question of why some countries, like India, suffer so much from it, while other do not.”

VARUN SHEKHAR
TORONTO CANADA


That is a basic implementation of the core thought of fighting with non believers in an organized way or in an indiscriminating manner. The latest way of performing this order is through the Jihadis. They are easy to use - brainwashed they can carry an effective attack in any part of the world for heaven.

Terror strategists use them as means. But there are top-ranked layers which direct the whole show including the strategists. Their mission is different – not exactly matched with hardcore Jihadis. A multicultural secular country with ‘kafir’ majority like India is the target of their choice because it covers the 3600 dimension of anti Indian Muslim countries’ objectives:
-to slowdown the development activities
-to create insecurity
-to detract the country from constructive agendas
-to destabilize it with the most conventional theorem of establishing Islam through Jihad; eliminating ‘kafirs’ as their top agenda.

Dishonest intellectuals often call it the fight of the oppressed.

Their nature is to find a suitable host where they can breed freely. Unfortunately, they are getting opportunities; these groups are meeting social needs left untended by failed state bureaucracies. Like LeT in disguise of Jamaat-ud-Dawa in Pakistan.

dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
423
Apart from the fact that terrorism such as Mumbai is not really a local contextual issue, since it was a foreign attack against India, there is also the whole question of why some countries, like India, suffer so much from it, while other do not. China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia and Myanmar are all repressive, , dictatorial countries, yet you hardly see any terrorist violence directed against them. China's repression and denial of democracy to Tibetans has not ANY militancy at all.Similiarly, there are minority groups which have suffered persecution, without resorting to any retaliatory violence: Hindus in Bangladesh, Pakistan; Bahais and Jews in Iran, the Mayan Indians of Guatemala. So Arundhati's theorizing and conceptualising needs some fine-tuning, to say the least.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
422
30/12/08

BRIAN MILLER
TOKYO JAPAN


>>“…though eloquent and thought provoking, utterly misses the essence of Roy's core message”

Roy’s core message:
If you experience a pinch from somebody return it with a blow, and that is justified. As I’ve said before Arundhati is establishing annihilation – comparing pond with an ocean.

>>“Kumar mistakenly interprets Roy as "justifying" terrorism on the basis of past wrongs. Roy is pleading for an awareness of historical context---an awareness that has been, as she laments, generally lacking in the mass media's handling of acts of terrorism.”

Mistakes happen on matters you are less known or not aware of. When you feel the disease is spreading through cell by cell in your body, you take medications after certain diagnosis. If there is a mistake, you will die. Therefore, the word ‘mistakenly’ is indigestible in this case.

The focal point here is ‘historical context’:
History is a road consists of bricks of years. If you cut it in one point, the road will become unusable. Consider centuries of Muslim invasion, rape, destruction of educational institutions, massacre, demolition of Mandirs, forced conversions in Indian sub-continent. The road is bloody, that is history, and consequences are in front of us.

The attack on Mumbai did not happen for internal issues solely. The Jihadis are operating world wide with their definite vision and mission. We can pretend but humanity will win. There are already signs and the signs are clear.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
421
>> Are they both part of hindutva?

They certainly are , as per the supreme court. You can follow any religion & still be n indianIndia is not a islamic republic to force every one to stop idol worship or eat beef.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
420
>> It accepted a simple non-conroversial (though meaningless) definition that supported the position that hindutva was not religion.

anything which does not suit anwar patels argument becomes meaningless next moment !

>>The same judgement can be reached by saying that hindutva is a political ideology, and therefore is not a religion.

In that case, It can also be reached by saying that Islam is the bloodiest religion and jihad the bloodies political ideology. The point is Supreme court did not say it.

>>The Supreme Court did not say that it is or is not a political ideology.

It defined what hindutva means. Obviously anything out of that definition is ot hindutva.Political ideology was not mentioned in that definition.

>>It used a watered down banal definition, so the question of political ideology did not arise.

Things do not become watered down or banal , just because it punctures yor theory.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
419
>> The definition of hindutva as per commies, succulars or some american university is irrelevant to the indian polity. This very issue was taken to the supremecourt & was then defined by the courts, That is the valid dfinition in indian polity as of today.

The issue of definition was not taken to the court. What was taken to the court was the question whether Hindutva was a religion under the election law. The court correctly said 'No'. It accepted a simple non-conroversial (though meaningless) definition that supported the position that hindutva was not religion. As far as Indian polity is concerned, the definition is quite different. Hindutva is a political ideology that in effect confers first class citizenship only to Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists. In a more recent version, the sangh has gone to the absurd length of saying that Muslims and Christians may also be included as 'Muslim Hindus' or 'Christian Hindus'!

>> If the judgement is sound , the supporting data including definition of hindutva should be sound.

The same judgement can be reached by saying that hindutva is a political ideology, and therefore is not a religion.

>> your original contention was that Hindutva is a political ideology .The supreme court does not think so.

The Supreme Court did not say that it is or is not a political ideology. It used a watered down banal definition, so the question of political ideology did not arise.

>> How can way of life of all Indians , irrespective of their religion , be opposed to secularism?

Both idol worship and beef eating are Indian ways of life. But millions of Indians are against idol worship, and millions of other Indians are against beef eating. Are they both part of hindutva?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
418
>>I am not surprised to see that you have run out of arguments. You did not have any to start with!

You cant see an argument , even if it comes & bites you on your backside. To reiterte, The definition of hindutva as per commies, succulars or some american university is irrelevant to the indian polity. This very issue was taken to the supremecourt & was then defined by the courts, That is the valid dfinition in indian polity as of today.

>>The Supreme Court meant well when it gave a bland definition of Hindutva in order to justify its judgement in the case, which was a sound decision.

You are contradicting yourelves within a sentence.If the judgement is sound , the supporting data including definition of hindutva should be sound. You cant have a sound decision based on bland data!!

Also your origibal contention was that Hindutva is a political ideology .The supreme court does not think so.

>>. But the fact remains that the concept of Hindutva stands in opposition to the Gandhi-Nehru credo of secularism.

Certainly Not. How can way of life of all Indians , irrespective of their religion , be opposed to secularism?
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
417
>>Only by transcending the historical, social, and economic myopia propagated by governments and by the mainstream media can we begin to address the root causes of terrorism.

Extending the same logic, sadhvi and colonel from abhinav bharat shoud be immediately let off, as their actions can also be justified by a historical context of jihadi bombings.

True for post godhra riot accused as well, as burning of 57 hindus can justify the riots later.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Dec 30, 2008 12:00 AM
416
Abhinav Kumar's response to two recent essays by Arundhati Roy, though eloquent and thought provoking, utterly misses the essence of Roy's core message. Kumar mistakenly interprets Roy as "justifying" terrorism on the basis of past wrongs. Readily apparent in even a casual reading of Roy's texts is a powerful and consistent rejection of terrorism. Rather than justifying terrorism of any kind, Roy is pleading for an awareness of historical context---an awareness that has been, as she laments, generally lacking in the mass media's handling of acts of terrorism. Only by transcending the historical, social, and economic myopia propagated by governments and by the mainstream media can we begin to address the root causes of terrorism.

Regards,

brian miller
tokyo
Brian Miller
Tokyo, Japan
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
415
If what DigVijay Singh said is true, then why neither the PM nor the HM make a reference to it in their account in the Parliament?

And why is this info coming from a somebody and not from the PM or HM?

Naive questions. It is Antulay all over again. The Congress can always distance itself from Digvijay Singh saying he was expressing his personal opinion. Again Congress is playing to both sides.

Singh makes one statement, Chidambaram will make another statement and they think they can satisfy both sides.

Acting too smart at times can blow right on the face. Congress better be careful.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
414
Seshadri,

>> No megalomania, only necessity involved. Professors in science and technology have to coin new words from time to time.

The words that you coin clearly express your malicious attitude. The words that scientists coin gradually get accepted by others. Your evil words are used exclusively by you in your hate-filled posts.

>> I cannnot combine dawood ibrahim and Abdul Kalam in one and the same group, called just moslems following islam. I must separate dawood as a 'jislamist', for the sake of Allah Himself.

Dawood is not a jislamist, because that is a non-existent word invented by the hate monger Ass-Seshadri. Since I do not consider Hindus to be a hateful people, should I call a hateful Hindu like you "jishindu"?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
413
LBMN,

>> Is it reserved for milli gazzette or two circles ? Looks like the believers have the first right to determine who can define what in India !! High hopes..India is not part of ummah.

I am not surprised to see that you have run out of arguments. You did not have any to start with!
The Supreme Court meant well when it gave a bland definition of Hindutva in order to justify its judgement in the case, which was a sound decision. But the fact remains that the concept of Hindutva stands in opposition to the Gandhi-Nehru credo of secularism.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
412
Stopperbhai,

>> you will remain silent over issues like the Shabano case.

Do you make a habit out of commenting without knowledge of what I had said? Is truthfulness not important to you at all?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
411
Let the "pagans", whoever they are, come out of the more pernicious( in relation to the compulsions of modernity) features of their culture. Because their culture certainly isn't all bad. One very good and positive thing about "pagans" is that they mind their own business, and generally keep to themselves. There are negative aspects to their behaviour, but even some of these can be related to socio-economic and historical, as opposed to hard, fixed cultural/ideological, reasons. Such as the growth of prostitution in Southeast Asia. It's somewhat ironic, too, that native Indian( aboriginal) spirituality in the US has acquired a respect and legitimacy, while East Indian Churchian zealots, showing off their new-found faith, are denouncing 'paganism' as something inherently brutal and backward. That puts them at odds with the more enlightened, liberal viewpoint in the US itself, a country they praise for its 'staunch' Christianty.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
410

The meaning of the word "Churchian" should be evident to any thinking person. It signifies an obsession with the form, structure, power and politics of Christianity, rather than its spirit. The power of the influence of the Church, Pope and Vatican, the numbers game played to increase converts, the denigration of other religions as wallowing in sin merely by being themselves, and of course the gaining of a foothold in the politics of countries and control over personal lives of people.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
409
AP:>>"megalomonia of thinking that you can invent new words"

No megalomania, only necessity involved. Professors in science and technology have to coin new words from time to time. Aeronautical navigation becomes aviation. Aviation electronics, then becomes avionics. If you call this megalomania, of the scientists concerned, the world will only laugh at you.

Whatever you may say, I cannnot combine dawood ibrahim and Abdul Kalam in one and the same group, called just moslems following islam. I must separate dawood as a 'jislamist', for the sake of Allah Himself.

I admire Aldous Huxley as a great christian philosopher, but I cant say the same about the Pope, who only wants to harvest souls in asia for his church, I have to call him only as a churchian and preselytiser. I know jesus Himself agrees with my view.

If you will call me bad names for this, I have to bear with it, as asses generally do.

>>"SR and I are the only ones in this forum who tell you the truth about yourself. Instead of thanks"

Right. You and SR are the only ones in this forum who are clearly exposing how right I am in my views and how much you both have to oppose me vehemently at every step, bec of your jislamic and churchian paymasters. I must thank you for admitting this clearly. Thank you, indeed.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
408
>>The Supreme Court is not in the business of defining words.

Is it reserved for milli gazzette or two circles ?

Looks like the believers have the first right to determine who can define what in India !!

High hopes..India is not part of ummah. So learn to respect the views of supreme court.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
407
>>"Keep up the spirit.
Have a nice day and cheers!" DIP.

Thanks for your friendly comments.
Wish you the same!.

v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
406
29/12/08

“Perhaps, I should stop responding to your posts, and also stop reading outlook anymore. It has only been a highly degrading experience, I agree.”

V.SESHADRI
CHENNAI INDIA

I’ve found this forum as a nice platform
of sharing our views
with witty remarks and constructive criticisms or just some simple passing comments on different issues which we are facing in daily life.
Sometimes we become serious. Sometimes we pass some humors to cool things down.
Generosity of our heart – that is all we need.

No comments should be made or encouraged to hurt someone personally. This is a
well practiced measure of torture; the uncompromising elements usually
attack-physically, mentally and verbally, until and unless they feel their mission is fulfilled.
A simple pinch from others is returned with a blow.

It is unfortunate that you are feeling this way.
Religion, a person himself, a nation these are very sensitive issues. You may feel unmoved with a comment regarding your religion or about yourself.
But that does not mean that others will react in the same way. That depends on their culture, education and intent.

Keep up the spirit.
Have a nice day and cheers!
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
405
faruki

so even terrorism was something you had to learn from others.

you guys are just too backward. try doing something worthwhile.

ideas-

aaa a see through burqa

bbb new prayer mat-always aligned towards mecca.

ccc a horse with wings.

banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
404
SR >>You have no argument. Do you really think discussing the benefits of cow or camel urine merits anything other than ridicule.

With this statement , you just reconfirmed that you are the biggest certified idiot in this forum , with ZERO abilities in logic & comprehension.

Read slowly till you comprehend.

Mian, the subject of cow urine therapy was originally brought up by you , not me. Infact you used this subject to say hindus are suffering from mad cow disease due to this. You DID NOT find the subject ridiculous then.

But when it was pointed out that camel urine is widely used by believers & is recommended in Koran, the subject became suddenly ridiculous to discuss !!

If it is ridiculous now, it was equally ridiculous when you made the remark on mad cow disease.

If it was not ridiculous then , it is not ridiculous now.

It cant be selectively ridiculous.

Go back to your hakim & ask for a bigger glass of camel urine to calm you down.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
403
Seshadri,

>> I am using different words, specifically for avoiding the possible insult of good religions, NOT to insult them.

Apart from the megalomonia of thinking that you can invent new words, your excuse is a patent lie. Your posts have repeatedly shown that you hold other religions and their prophets in scant regard.

>> I do feel ashamed to have such arguments with the likes of yourself and 'hardrok', now posting as SR.

SR and I are the only ones in this forum who tell you the truth about yourself. Instead of thanks, all we get from you are rude retorts.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
402
AP:>>"You want to invent words to insult the religions of others"

Misinterpretation seems to the main function of cair jihadis.

I am using different words, specifically for avoiding the possible insult of good religions, NOT to insult them. Calling converters as christians will be an insult to them and jesus christ; hence I call them only as churchians. Similarly, calling jihadi terrorist killers as moslems, will certainly be an insult to good moslems and Allah as their God. Hence I refer to them as jislamists. My religious conscience is clear. But you may not agree.

You are right. As a retired professor, I do feel ashamed to have such arguments with the likes of yourself and 'hardrok', now posting as SR. Perhaps, I should stop responding to your posts, and also stop reading outlook anymore. It has only been a highly degrading experience, I agree.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
401
SR:>>"Every pagan tries to rationalize and justify his weired acts of worship"

You should be glad you are no longer a pagan.
Changing name to christopher reddy will make it very clear.

>>:"What should she do when her 'kundalini'wakes up."

If your knowledge of kundalini yoga makes you think it is sexual stimulous, you are not even a pagan hindu, but a worse form of animist, stud bull wrongly born human. No form of religion will give you spiritual progress. No wonder you make rather strange comments, praising people for eating beef etc. Happy time to you, during new year celebration.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
400
"Cops reacted late to info by witness
29 Dec 2008, 0342 hrs IST

Eventually, when the Azad Maidan police realised that the terrorists had left the station and were in the vicinity of the police station, their men took up positions facing the right direction. By then, the terrorists had entered the next compound, Cama Hospital. On the way there, they killed three civilians and two hospital watchmen.

By the time additional commissioner Sadanand Date entered Cama Hospital with a few policemen to challenge the terrorists, they were well entrenched. Two policemen,

Vijay Khandekar and Prakash More, were killed fighting the terrorists inside the hospital; Date and another policemen were injured.

After this, the terrorists slipped out of the hospital and went down Tyabji Marg where they ran into a police jeep carrying ATS chief Hemant Karkare, additional commissioner Ashok Kamte, inspector V Salaskar and three other policemen.

The Azad Maidan police admitted that they lost an opportunity in the chaos that night. "We were not well-equipped,'' said one of them. "


Antuley is right .Great .Super Intelligent Man !

Kurkure was killed because Police could have but did not kill Kasb before he and his co-killer encountered the Officers.

Now Antuley must ask :

Who delayed the COPs to react quickly ? Who was holding the Police to react immediately ? Why there were no Armed

The person or persons who delayed reaction must be powerfull ones.Needs investigation.

Or plainly PLUS PLUS PLUS SOME (read Hindutavies )are involved ?

2. "After this, the terrorists slipped out of the hospital and went down Tyabji Marg where they ran into a police jeep carrying ATS chief Hemant Karkare, additional commissioner Ashok Kamte, inspector V Salaskar and three other policemen.

The Azad Maidan police admitted that they lost an opportunity in the chaos that night. "We were not well-equipped,'' said one of them. "

SO WHO INTENTIONALLY, PURPOSELY AND MALICIOUSLY ENSURED FOR YEARS TOGETHER ensured that MUMBAI POLICE should be not be equipped properly so that Kasab after landing could kill Kurkure .

I suspect years of Planning by Sadvi and Col.

Let us have another Narco test on them .

But But Hmm Hmm Auntely was also CM and Central Minister that too of Minorities--hmm hmm --a Narco for him too ??


http://timesofindia.ind...articleshow/3906048.cms
Khushi Ram
ambala cantt, India
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
399
>> The courts in India function as per Indias constitution, which is a democratic document.

The court was asked to rule on whether hindutva is a religion and hence barred from being raised in an election campaign. The court gave the correct judgment, and said that Hindutva was not a religion. However in order to reach that judgement it had to define Hindutva for its own deliberations. It did so for that purpose only. That however does not mean that its definition is now an official definition. The Supreme Court is not in the business of defining words.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
398
Seshadri,

>> All words in all languages derive their validity to exist, only from the authority of your kind approval, is it not?

You want to invent words to insult the religions of others, but you do not want others to show their disapproval of your childish activity! Your bad behavior is as liable to draw comment as anyone else's bad behavior. Perhaps even more so, because you are a retired professor.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
397
>> They would probably see no evil in the idea of a Pakistan in which Hindus had no rights. They are Savarkarians in that respect!

Then why is the liberal angst not directed towards them?
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
396
>> Hindutva means Hindu oriented communalism.

May be for commies & succulars. But there are other definitions , as agreed to by the supremecourt.

>>>> India is no caliphate.

AP>> Precisely. That's why a court's definition of a word cannot be taken as a final all comprehensive 'official' definition.

The courts in India function as per Indias constitution, which is a democratic document. To compare its working to dictats of a stupid jihadi caliph is disgusting.

No wonder most of the muslims in the world do not know what democracy is.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
395
29/12/08
MR. Anwar Patel

Vengeance originated from desperate classification by calling non Muslims as Kafirs and all divinity the world can describe showered only on Muslims. The other believers were considered as sinners straightway. That was the fundamental point where all rationality disappeared and conflicts started.

Recognize others - you too will be recognized.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
394
AP:>>"you used the non-existent pejorative 'churchian'"

All words in all languages derive their validity to exist, only from the authority of your kind approval, is it not?

You should post in the name 'saraswatee-pati' or bramha or abraham, saaraa's husband, to suit your role as the Lord of all words, as the husband of the goddess of all words and wisdom.

Another moronic statement, from ass-adri, of course. Asses do have to bear big burdens in the world. Hope the Lord relieves me of these, quite soon.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
393
Ass-Seshadri,

>> Churchian assumptions, for conversion cnvenience.

I had to call you Ass-Seshadri again because you used the non-existent pejorative 'churchian'.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
392
Stopperbhai,

>> But the dangers from Muslim terrorism came into India long before the sangha Parivar was born.

The world has had thousands of wars and conquests. They are not called 'terrorism'. That term is applied to lethal attacks targetting nameless civilians in order to terrify a population for political gains. The first such attack was in 1946 when the Jewish Irgun bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. The first terrorist attack in India was a Naxalite attack in 1967.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
391
SR:>>"Long before Jinnah,in 1924 it was Madan Mohan malvia and Lala Lajpat Rai who conceived the idea of dividing the subcontinet on religious lines. Those two Brhamins thought in undivided independeant India the lower castes will be siding with the Muslims and will be determintal to the survival of the Brhaminical Hegemony".

Rai not brahmin, only thakur, kshatriya caste.
Ideas like above are only churchian concoctions.
Your cardinals only are prone to conspiracies, you associate that with brahmins among hindus. Hinduism does not give the fatwa, dogma issuing functions to brahmins.

>>"Till 1953 lower casts were not counted as Hindus".

Churchian assumptions, for conversion cnvenience.

>>"By dividing the Indian subcontinet the Brhamins got rid of a sizeable population of Muslims and declared the low castes as Hindus".

Churchian grumble, bec of inconvenience for conversions.

You say casteism is the main evil of hinduism. But 'low castes' are NOT hindus at all!. Why then, blame their lower caste on hinduism?
heads, you win, tails we lose?

You churchians do not deserve to have jesus christ as your Lord and saviour. Declare your conversionist religion as Paulism or thomasism, not christianity.

'Sundara' is a sans word, for 'sukham dadaati reetyaa', meaning 'pleasing, by nature'. Perhaps, you should change to kundar or some other suitable latin name, considering your aversion for sanskrit.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
390
faruki-dr s

no one in europe is too interested in religion.

people are more interested in values ie morals,
honesty, truthfulness.

there is little corruption, and people are fairly blunt- a yes is a yes amongst most members
of the public.people seldom tell lies. and most
people are friendly. denmark has taken about 200,000 immigrants and asylum seekers. mostly
from muslim lands, where there is war or conflicts.

in india or pakistan people are most enthralled
in rituals, ceremonies, but seldom in morals
or ethics,

in denmark a member of parliament had to resign after he was found takeing an ice cream cone
without paying.

faruki,s obsession with islam is comic. what earthly good is it doing muslims. not much i would say. the others are equally bad-sikhs,christians, or hindus.

in this modern world its absolutely comic and tragic at the way people are obsessed with religion.

faruki will have to admit that european countries -mainly agnostics-are far better then
islamic countries. thats what counts.

faruki himself does not appear to be a specially kind or even well behaved person.how do the five times prayers a day matter.

nix.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
389
Seshadri,

>> Islam can become a true relig of peace....

Everybody knows what everybody else's religion should do! How can a retired professor be so naive?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
388
>>>"yadayadayada is meaningless". SR.

Read with a little care, sans is easily understood, not strange to andhras, really.

But prejudiced hatred closes your eyes and mind. I had a 'shetty' colleague from Ktka, in BITR, long ago. For him, sans and 'bad language' [curse] were one and the same! Strong personal dislike, may be he had really bad Bs, in temples, or as neighbors, in childhood. You seem to have the same probl.

v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
387
Lookee here - more mis-understanders of Islam - acting on behalf of their maggot prophet...

[Dec 28 - Suicide car bomb in Afghanistan KILLS 14 PRIMARY school children]

so what do the reporters say....

["It's absolutely blatant. Children walking past, and then they detonate the vehicle bomb," said a spokesman for the Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) in Afghanistan. "The driver was able to see the children, there's no doubt about that at all."]

so this pious musalmaan fellow directly targeted little kids...nice going for Mo'mad's ass-monkeys.

[Video footage of the bombing, taken from a security camera, shows a group of children, apparently returning from school, walking alongside a road that had a checkpoint guarding a district centre. A dark-coloured 4x4 vehicle is seen ­snaking through the barriers placed on the approach to the checkpoint, before detonating just as it drew level with the children.]

AoA!!
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
386
AP:>>"Seshadri,>> All spiritually mature religions ... Meaning one's own religion!

I did not exclude yours; but you assume it, bec you know that yours os only a religion of war and violence.

Islam can become a true relig of peace, if it works to give greater respect and gentler treatment to women and animals. You should leave your CAIR and work for gentler islam, really.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
385
More contributions from peaceful musalmaans...

[12/26/2008 (Bajaur, Pakistan) - A child is killed during a Taliban rocket attack.

12/26/2008 (Kishtwar, India) - Mujahideen abduct a man, then murder him in a wooded area.

12/26/2008 (Gilgit, Pakistan) - A child is among five people shot dead in a sectarian ambush.

12/26/2008 (Beit Lahiya, Pal. Auth.) - Two young girls are killed when a Palestinian rocket hits their home.

12/25/2008 (Bishkan, Iraq) - A 13-year-old is murdered in her home by Jihadi invaders.]

and these morons point fingers at Hindus...
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
384
faruki

you have high standards for hindus, and their political parties.

you have no standards for your own muslim community.

at every stage muslims have undermined secular
democracy in india. really you should debate this with liberal muslims and christians.

i give up with you. you are simply obsessed by the hindutwa mennace, like parthasashtry is with
women.

i read dawn quite often. some liberal write in this paper. they are quite different from you and your paranoid views.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
383
Seshadri,

>> All spiritually mature religions ...

Meaning one's own religion! A professor with frog-in-the-well thinking!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
382
>> I know Pakistanis will accept any evil theory as long as it is applicable to others.

They would have of course rejected Savarkar's two-nation theory which proposed an akhand India in which Muslims and Christians could stay without any rights. They would probably see no evil in the idea of a Pakistan in which Hindus had no rights. They are Savarkarians in that respect!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
381
SR: I suspect you are the new avtar of the 'hard-rock' who was poisoning these columns an year ago.

Hinduism is an absolutist religion which does not despise any matter or spirit in the cosmos as impure or dirty. Dirt for mankind becomes manure for plants which feed the cows which give milk for human babies. Everything put in fire, the aahuta-samasta [ahura-mazda] agni, breaks them into atoms and molecules for recombination into useful compounds. hundreds of tv channels devote hours of time showing the dance-around of the ‘hair of the human female’, which is nothing but mere calcium, kaale-Syaamah, dark in its time, turning grey in time, unless artificially coloured. yamo-asti stree-keSa-sthah: the god of death rides on the woman's hair, itself lifeless, which drives man to love and lust and self-destruction, eventually! But, you despise shit and urine, which are also atoms, molecules only!

There is an upanishadic episode which pictures a scholar looking with despise on his own shit. It is said to tell him, in rebuke, that despise belongs in him, really, bec the shit entered him has good food and fruits and ended as shit bec of his body! The scholar learns to respect all matter as only the counter-part of anti-matter = spirit. Same with cow-urine, known to be anti-bacterial, as also self-urine in naturaopathy, followed by morarji. Mouth-waters of man or animals themselves anti-biotic, keeping the teeth free of infections, curing any toungue-bite wounds automatically!.

All spiritually mature religions respect animals as creations by god's will only. Siva is seen as 'paSu-pati', vishNu as 'go-paala', jesus as the 'divine shepherd'. In hindu yagjnas, at the end, prasads given are just black-ashes from the homa fire, reminding you that all matter is only destructible! panca-gavya, combination of five cow-products [milk, buttermilk, butter, cow-urine and cow-dung, mixed] given for being tasted by devotees!. To develop humility before all creation is the first step towards true spirituality. Like the sacrificial blood of jesus put symbolically on the toungues of devotees by priests in your churches!

In aadi paraasakti temple, they are 'selling' waters in bottles, being washes of the feet of their guru called 'amma', many christians among them, bec it is taken as worship of mother mary alone, immaculate without involvement of Siva, another form of relig-ego!

You seem to ber happy that your friend Raj-Sekhar Reddy, CM of AP is convverting a lot of hindu dalit andhras to your churches, built big and numerous, to please sonia and the pope. Perhaps, aandhras, aaryataam gata draavida, aryanized dravidians, will all soon become all 'kraandhras', christianized dravidians only! But, very soon, all chr in the world will see that jesus has ‘returned’ to become skanda, son of Siva the time-God, nephew of vishNu the space-God, of the hindus only. Christianity and sun-worship and fire worship, all seen only as part of sanaatana dharma only, seeing scince and spirituality as only different aspects of reality, seen with spiritual humility, relig, which raises man into the image of God!

Do not spend your good mind and time dividing relig and cultures, for creating disputes and destruction; use them to unite mankind for peace and progress!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
380
" I do not know if Pakistanis would agree with such an evil theory."


I do not know the thread for this. But I know Pakistanis will accept any evil theory as long as it is applicable to others. They will reject the theory if it is forced on them.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
379
>> I do not know if Pakistanis would agree with such an evil theory.

The Pakis have gone ahead and put this theory in practice too, and with typical Islamic efficiency in such matters, achieved the results within a very short span of time. So now, there are virtually no Hindus left in Pakiland, and those that are left have minimal rights.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
378
Stopperbhai,

>> Because Hindus are basically secular that we have accepted a secular democracy for the country.

Yes, but danger lurks in the form of the RSS, VHP, Abhinav Bharat and kindred extremist outfits.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Dec 29, 2008 12:00 AM
377
Banito/Lalit,

>> i am certain that most pakistani,s will agree wi