Illustration by Sorit
opinion
I, The Convert
My conversion was not a change of religion; it was a change of heart
Conversions: fear in kandhamal
With the parivar unrepentant, will peace or the refugees ever return to Kandhamal?
Smita Gupta
conversions: kandhamal
Fear, practically made this village reconvert to Hinduism
Interview
Orissa chief minister says his government's dependence on BJP support will not deter him from taking action against the Bajrang Dal and VHP.
Outlook
conversions
In Karnataka, the Sangh's busy drumming up evidence
Sugata Srinivasaraju
conversions: soulspeak
When change of religion was all about a deeply personal choice
Anuradha Raman
Percentage growth in population between 1991 and 2001 as per Census
I was born a Brahmin and am the grandson of a priest whom I dearly loved. I am educated and my current professional standing indicates that I am reasonably intelligent. I am also affluent and my income would put me distinctly in the upper middle class bracket. I guess that would make me high-caste, rich and smart. In other words, I am not a tribal, or poor or dim-witted. And yet, I chose to become a follower of Jesus Christ.

The world would call me a convert to Christianity. I have no problems with that, though I see my faith more as a relationship with God through Jesus Christ than as a religion. And for the record, I can truthfully claim that no one financially induced or threatened or deceived me into converting to Christianity.

I am fiercely proud of my national identity as an Indian and I am completely at peace with my cultural identity as a Hindu. I retain the name my parents gave me. My wife, who also shares my faith, continues to go by her Hindu name. We have two children and we have given both distinctly Hindu names. In fact, many of my colleagues and acquaintances who may happen to read this column are likely to be surprised. They have no inkling about my faith, for I generally don't go about announcing it. But if someone does ask me the reason behind the joy and hope that is everpresent in my life, I am always delighted to share it with them.

I write this piece to make one point—that my conversion was not a change of religion but a change of heart. To explain this, I need to go back to my childhood in Chennai, similar to that of so many other Tamil Brahmin boys like me. My grandfather, every bit the virtuous priest, had enormous influence over me. I absolutely adored him and as a toddler, always clung to him. He too loved me to a fault. There was no wish of mine that he would not rush to fulfil. But even in my early, formative years I was unable to relate to the religion he fervently practiced. Later, in my school days, I once spent my summer holidays with him in Trichy. Memories of dawn walks with him, for the ritualistic dip in the Cauvery river, cow in tow, are still fresh in my memory. I learnt many shlokas, some of which I still remember. But I never understood any of it and none of it helped me connect with God.

When I was 19, a Christian friend with whom I used to play cricket invited me to his house for prayer. If he had invited me to a pub, or party, I would have gone too. At his home, he and his sister prayed for me. It was a simple yet delightful conversation with God that lasted all of five minutes. I don't remember it verbatim, but they articulated a prayer of blessing on my life, future, career and family. It was a simple affair—no miracles, no angels visiting. All they did was utter a deep human cry out to the creator God and His only son Jesus Christ. When they said Amen, I felt in my heart a desire to follow Jesus.

It was a faith encounter with God that I shall not even attempt to understand, rationalise or explain. I simply accept it. It is my faith. It is what I choose to believe. That evening I did not change my religion, for in reality I had none. Hinduism was my identity, not my religion. It still is.

The Christianity I acquired that evening is not a religion. On the contrary, it is an intensely intimate relationship with Jesus. Over the past fifteen years, I have come to know this Jesus even closer. I know Him as the pure and sinless Son of a Holy God. And I know Him as a dear friend to whom I pray and talk to every day—about my career, my dreams, successes, failures, finances and even my sexuality.

If I read a good book, watch a good movie (Rock On is terrific, mate), or eat a good meal at a new restaurant, I would naturally tell my friends about it. In Jesus, I have discovered a truly amazing friend, guide, leader, saviour and God. How can I not tell all my friends about Him? And if anyone does listen and he too comes to believe in Jesus, I am delighted. The world would call it a conversion; I call it a change of heart, like mine.

But I would never force anyone to listen to me, leave alone financially induce, coerce or con him into believing. That to me is pointless and against the very grain of my faith. But I do have a constitutional right to practice my faith and to preach it without deception, force or bribery. It pains to see such basic rights of mankind being cruelly violated every day in this great Hindu nation.

God bless India.


(Anand Mahadevan is the editor of Outlook Business.)

Conversions: fear in kandhamal
With the parivar unrepentant, will peace or the refugees ever return to Kandhamal?
Smita Gupta
conversions: kandhamal
Fear, practically made this village reconvert to Hinduism
Interview
Orissa chief minister says his government's dependence on BJP support will not deter him from taking action against the Bajrang Dal and VHP.
Outlook
conversions
In Karnataka, the Sangh's busy drumming up evidence
Sugata Srinivasaraju
conversions: soulspeak
When change of religion was all about a deeply personal choice
Anuradha Raman
Percentage growth in population between 1991 and 2001 as per Census
 
Daily MailPublished
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Oct 31, 2009 09:10 PM
337
Its Good to know that you where born in Brahmin family , infact its good to know that everybody took birth where they did actually.And its very pleasing that you can judge your knowledge and Jesus is proud to have you.
See as you have told that
1) world will tell that you have converted to christanity but its you , who is coming to world to explain and say clarify your stand, your religion, your faith.
2) You believe in connection with god as you said.Then I think you should believe in that some soul is there within you, not some ganesh, krishna, Allah, and not even yr fav JESUS right.Noobody has any problem whether you leave hinduism, or christanity or muslims but yr honesty, yr attitude, yr behaviour toward living things and yr thinking matter not jesus.
3) I dont see anything that you are proud of, you inchantted shlokas with yuor father but you are announcing sarcastically & proudly that you dont even know the meaning of those slokas.I think loopholes lies with you dont you think so?, its not even your father's fault, you learned professionalism not from your father but through yr learnings. Your father tought you how to live life,behave in socity all important stuffs related to living never taught you to make connections with god.You should have found the way but you are saying you found through one particular god name JESUS. Thats something doesnt suit yr professionalism and intellect mind.
4) You prayed many times in temple but those prayers never touched your heart but one AMEN christianity prayer touched your heart. Then please you are very intelligent and reasonable enough to think whose mistake is this or are you lying to yourself. Its simply a BULLSHIT you have talked here dude or uncle whoever you are.
5) What is name "JESUS" is, do you know ? , what JESUS symbolises , What JESUS has said ?. I don't think you are 0.00001% close enough to JESUS nor even to any other so called god. MAN GOD HAS NO NAME , ALL GOD BEAR SAME TEACHINGS.READ BIBLE or QURAN OR GITA PLEASE. DO IT FIRST.

People with that kind of thinking is serious problem to India even to whole world. Those People have paved way for descrimination , the very thinking of world "religion and religion" on & on has given way to many problem. And one more truth you people wont ever change also.

PERSON Shouldn't BELIEVE IN NAME OF GODS but THE PATH THEY WANTED US TO FOLLOW.EVERY GOD TEACHINGS is SAME, NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL.
Abhi
Chennai, India
Oct 27, 2009 12:24 AM
336
Excellent article. Yes. Conversion comes from knowing the true savior, Jesus Christ who died on the cross to save everyone in this world. He is the only one person who came back to life after death.
mohan
Bangalore, India
Jul 20, 2009 05:15 PM
335
It is wonderful When God intervenes No one can intervene
Emmanuel
Tuticorin, India
Jul 15, 2009 12:00 AM
334
Great Mr.Anand. Conversion is a change of heart and God does it, no man can stop it. Thanks for your honesty.
M S Sundar
Bangalore, India
Mar 23, 2009 12:00 AM
333
I believe Mr. Anand has depicted the whole issue very sincerely.

But don't you think Mr. Anand a heart can't be changed,
it can only transform from one phase to another?
The transformation you experienced in a prayer in your friend's house
was definitely not a magical moment but was only a fulfillment of a
long due incompleteness thrusting you deep inside.

As all religions lead to one destination, you found your path
through Jesus. His love to the mankind and pain to the end
to uphold its greatness must had satisfied your thirst. He was
a man, he is a medium. I don't think you did choose Jesus
as a medium to TOUCH the supreme power. Christ's humane virtues
just touched your heart and you found the peace for your
heart.

At the age of 18, the transformation of your body & mind
experienced emotions with some maturity.
The phase of eighteens is always attracted by outer world.
Grandpa, mom, papa become a bit boring at that phase. There might be
an entanglement of love and domination of your pious Grandpa/Family
that sometimes irritated you.

I wish to quote from Doc Childre:
"Harmonizing heart and brain through love is what can establish a complete intelligence,
a complete self, where a child can look at life
and realize there are no dead ends, there are always possibilities.
The greatest gift a parent can give a child during all the ups and downs of life is love."
So, it's love - no undue domination.

And therefore you never
tried to explore the gold mine of Hinduism. And as your brain
could not perceive the divinely path of Hinduism
it had naturally little affect on your heart.
dip
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Mar 23, 2009 12:00 AM
332
Dear Mr. Anand,

I read your opinion. I accept many things. But it is funny to say that you learnt many shlokas but you don't understand it. In your formative years you must have been happy to take the dip in cauvery, run behind cows and chase goats and not bother about the shlokas that your grandpa taught you. You did it because of hero worship most probably. Obviously your grandfther, being a priest at temple would have surely known the meaning. Would have loved to explain the same to you but it all rests with the question HAD YOU ASKED? I don't know how you can't relate to something when you did nothing to find out what it means. Fine. Atleast at 19 you could have did it. But something else was in your mind. Never mind.

I accept your reasoning to relate to JESUS, your friend. Fine. But those who do all these full moon day prayer meeting relate to Jesus? Touch your heart and tell me they say Jesus thank you for providing hte wonderful meal today morning?

I don't know what you are trying to prove. Thank your God no problem. Btu don't tell that every other person who indulges in conversion thanks and converses with God.

I just pray to your God that atleast you are not marketed as just another elightened convert who found peace with God.

And even Christianity violates the basic rights in this great nation. If you have time(you have the resources etc) do write about how it is being violated too.

Don't relate your mighty friendship with God and then stoop down to levels of how this nation and people treat others and all.

We expect something better from Editor of Outlook.

Am sorry this feedback is a bit late. I got to read your article only yesterday.
Prasanna Veeraraghavan
Chennai, India
Feb 24, 2009 12:00 AM
331
JESUS CHRIST IS ALIVE.HE IS REAL.HE IS NOT A RELIGIOUS PERSON.HE IS THE SAVIOUR OF THE WHOLE WORLD.
Thank You Anand Mahadevan
renjit
kottayam, India
Dec 04, 2008 12:00 AM
330
GOD BLESS U
Manoha Pradeep
Kakinada, India
Dec 01, 2008 12:00 AM
329
Dear Anand,
Thank you for your wonderful and touching account of your encounter with Jesus. We would like to have this published in "The Voice of Delhi" which is the monthly magazine of the ArchDiocese of Delhi and who's patron is the ArchBishop.
http://www.catholicpari...L/SacredHeartCathedral/
)Kindly fill us with joy by giving us your permission.
You may please inform me at terry.dsouza@gmail.com
Thank you in advance.
Warm regards,
Terence.
Terence DSouza
New Delhi, India
Nov 18, 2008 12:00 AM
328
I welcome the new OUTLOOK which features articles by right wing columnists too, thereby making your magazine more neutral.
R. Narasimhan, Chennai
R. NARASIMHAN
CHENNAI, INDIA
Nov 11, 2008 12:00 AM
327
GP:>>"Religious fervor is a very cumbustible emotion"

It happens only when religion is reduced to politicized priestocracy. 'religion' is 'hril-lajjaa', heart-felt modesty towards the supreme power, whatever the name it is called as. Also:
'rite layam janayati, iti' is 'religion', it should entune the human soul and mind to the cosmic rhythm, driven by rudra = Siva = Allah = christ, ritam dravayati iti rudrah. Unforunately, priestocracy, in most relig, emphasize rituals over spirituality in life and thought and action. All people should learn to see priests, only as sign-posts to divinity, helping in god-think, but seek true God only within their inner selves. All religious violence will then lose support.

'Satyam vada, dharmam cara, ahimsaa paramo dharmah' says hinduism; 'do not do to others, what you do not want them to do to you', says the golden rule of christ. allah ho akbar, 'be my only source of enlightenment', prays the mloslem to allah.

No religion encourages violence in its apiritual roots. BUt, all religions have to rise above their own priestocrats, to reach God. That is the answer for salvation for all humanity and peace, progress, prosperity in the world.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Nov 11, 2008 12:00 AM
326
Georgi Parayil,

Thanks for your very considerate and mature post.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Nov 11, 2008 12:00 AM
325
Respected VS,

Violence should have no place in our society.

None of us should justify it,coming from any quarters or propogated by anybody and under any pretext.

I find no happiness or satisfaction when any of those incidents took place in our beloved country. Every life is precious and valuable.

Tolerance of every religion is mandated. When someone spreads disparaging writing about any religion that shows poorly on that person and not on the religion.

Religious fervor is a very cumbustible emotion. Unless handled with prudence and compassionate thinking, that can ignite a forest fire in our society, which will burn down the fabric of our peaceful coexistance.

"equally to the swami-kill, as to subsequent events, in orissa;
equally to the rapist-krishna leafleteers as for hindu-reactions, in ktka;
and equally to godhra carnage as for the subsequent reactions, in gujarat."

I see the danger there and fully agree on your above reference. Such behaviour and actions should not get any support from any fair minded and patriotic Indian.

We have so many other pressing problems in our country to which we should channel our efforts.

Let us encourage one another for doing right by our country. Our country is on a march with destiny. The sight of the Chandrayaan-1 and the emergence of an Industrial India and the achievement of the scientific India and Sports India should make us proud. Those are the achievements of Indians as a whole and thats the view we need to embrace.

Thanks VS for your worthy comments.
Georgi Parayil
New Jersey, United States
Nov 11, 2008 12:00 AM
324
GP:>>"Orissa, Karnataka and Gujarat in the name of religion should make every Indian hang his/her head in shame"

I am all with you, if your 'sense of shame' applies:

equally to the swami-kill, as to subsequent events, in orissa;
equally to the rapist-krishna leafleteers as for hindu-reactions, in ktka;
and equally to godhra carnage as for the subsequent reactions, in gujarat.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Nov 11, 2008 12:00 AM
323
Dear Editor,

I am happy to read the article, "I The Convert", by Mr. Anand Madhavan.

I am an Indian, now settled in the US. I am very proud of my Indian heritage and culture. When India became independent, we chose a secular system of goverment and a society that is committed to living in harmony with our neighbours. We Indians by nature, are very tolerant and hospitable. We have been respected around the world because of our secular belief. Every religion is welcomed in India and that has made us proud among nations of the world. We only need to look to our neighbouring countries to see the backwardness that shackled them because of religious intolerance.

Faith of any person does not make him more Indian or less Indian. We are all patriotic as sons and daughters of this great country. Whether one is a Hindu, Christian, Muslim or of any religion, what holds us together is that we are citizens of this great nation - India, and we are one.

We should not create an atmosphere of fear among the people because of their religious beliefs. Our constitution gives us the right to practice any faith we are drawn to. That does not make any of us less Indian.

These days, selfish agendas and political calculations are sowing the seed of intolerance among us and the fabric of our society is being torn apart. It is sad and alarming to see the nation in a tail-spin on account of religios intolerance. It hampers progress.

Fair minded people should raise their voices against this danger to our oneness as a nation.

What is seen in some of the states like Orissa, Karnataka and Gujarat in the name of religion should make every Indian hang his/her head in shame. We are a progressive nation and should not give into the fear of the medieval age.

Whether one chooses to live out their life as Hindu, Christian or Muslim, that is their heart's choice and we should respect that. Freedom in all its meaning is what our country longs for, which includes freedom to embrace any religion and faith as well. Let us not shackle it again under any pretext.

India is a secular country and not a theocratic country. We must hold our place among the best nations of the world by the way we conduct ourselves.

Let us all strive to make India proud.

JAI HIND!
Georgi Parayil
New Jersey, United States
Nov 10, 2008 12:00 AM
322
Br. Anand Mahadevan said the TRUTH in plain and simple words in a very systematic way. It’s really great to read such peoples testimonies. May God bring many such people to the forefront.
I greatly appreciate Mr. Vinod Mehta’s decision to publish this piece in the esteemed weekly of international repute. Thank you Mr. Mehta and team. God bless you all.
philip verghese ariel
Secunderabad, India
Nov 10, 2008 12:00 AM
321
After reading this wonderful testimony, my mind went back to the write-up of one Mr. Punj published by the news paper Deccan Chronicle; let me write few points in this connection. Amanda’s testimony (There are millions of such testimonies available) is a crystal clear example to the real conversion taking place in the heart) when a person encounter with Jesus Christ and His disciples. Mr. Pun wrote: “Evangelists are playing a long-term chess game” (Nov. 7 2008) ‘today’s evangelists (followers of Christ- added by me) are not qualified to work in Microsoft, Intel or Nasal. It’s very unfortunate to know about the writer’s ignorance on the subject “evangelist or evangelism”. The work of an evangelist is the noblest and greatest of all professions on this earth. The one who preach or proclaim the gospel (The Good News of Jesus Christ) is an evangelist. Evangelism or proclaiming the gospel is the primary obligation of every Christian believer (Anand did this thru the pages of Outlook). Just refer the history of first century Christians, Jesus Christ’s disciples (the evangelists) most of them are uneducated and untrained ones but the people encountered with them were marveled at their preaching. The gospel spread like wild fire and from a meager number of eleven followers it has increased to millions. This is sufficient enough to believe about the ability of the so called (the writer’s) ‘unqualified’ ones. Christianity never encourages hurting other religious feelings, the incidents like the Karnataka and the example quoted by the writer from the book of Charles Henry Robinson are few isolated ones. Christian missionaries’ services in different fields are exemplary ones and the writer himself accepts this.
Let me quote a Bible verse in this connection: …And how shall they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GLAD TIDINGS FOR GOOD THINGS!”
Philip Verghese ‘Ariel’ pv.ariel@yahoo.com
philip verghese ariel
Secunderabad, India
Nov 06, 2008 12:00 AM
320
JJ: [contd]:

>>” He is the only God of all, even a Hindu, Muslim or any; He is the only Father of all."

Right. Siva/Vishnu = Allah = Christ = Yahvey = Zeus. All, diff names of the only Almighty.

>>" The Everlasting Father came this world to search out the sinner children and wipe out their sins forever. And the Loving Father paid full price for the sin."

Did the father himself come as the son? Or did the father send His son to do it?

In my view, skanda=Apollo came as Jesus, the son of Siva = Father God. Siva’s consort, paraa Sakti, entered mary, wife of joseph, as holy spirit to mother him in immaculate conception, while Siva = kaalabhairava = Allah was blessing it as the ‘star of christ’.

He lived with joseph for ten yrs. Ganesa, the yaanai (eleph) god, elder bro of skanda, came as john the Baptist; jesus then wandered off to Tibet, where Adi sankara, in samadhi at kanchi, appeared and gave him sanyas. Jesus returned to J-salem, preaching the spirituality of seeing all mankind in the image of god.

But dev-yani, skanda’s heavenly wife, joined him as magdelene, compromising his celebacy as sanyasin. He allowed himself to be crucified, incidentally seeking forgive for sins of all repentant mankind.

Skanda is the 'all-forgiver' face of the almighty in Hinduism, slso. Blessed even his oppo Sura to become peacock, cock as his seat and flag. [Earlier, in india, skanda was born as kumarila-bhatta, pretended acceptance of jain-buddh atheism and exposed their faults, burnt himself off in atonement, before being reborn as jesus].

Adi sankara [Siva] entered the body of jesus on easter Sunday as the resurrected Christ; asked Saul to propagate chr, wandered over to asia and attained second samaadhi at sankaraachaarya hill near sreenagar in Kashmir, where hie ascended the sarvajgna-peeta.

>>" The disciples of Jesus Christ were never being wandered here and there with the intention of making any religion or any Church".

Do you think St. Thomas and others are only myths?. In my opinion, Jesus also developed 12 disciples as saints, just as adi-sankara ordained 12 lines of sankarachaarya lineages.
If only all Christians in India take some saint name for full transparency of their conversion to Christianity, it will be good for the country and all humanity. Crypto-christianity of converted hindus in india, for reservation benefits, is bringing shame to both the equally good and godly religions of hinduism and christianity.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Nov 06, 2008 12:00 AM
319
Jesu John: your post is very confusing.

>>"God is using his vessels from every corner for the Glory of God."
Is 'God' at the begin of your sentence different from the 'God' at the end?

>>" According to the Bible “ at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father”
OK. Does it imply Jesus is son of God, lord to the glory of his dad? Who is the mom, then? Mary or holy spirit, or holy spirit, paraa Sakti, coming inside Mary to mother Jesus ?

>>"No one in the world can make any kind of hindrance at the work of Almighty."
Quite right.

>>"JESUS CHRIST is not the God of Christian Religion".
If so, why have you quoted the bible, earlier?
Perhaps, you mean the bible is a spiritual guide to all humanity, not chr alone. Right, then. vinaa bhayam eeSa-layam dadhaati iti vibheelayah = bible, saves all humans from fear, gives them entune-ment with God, like the gita, quran and kural, guru-granth, also. Do you imply jesus = christ?

>>"The Christian religion is not being made by Jesus Christ."
'is' or 'was'? So, you also think, like me, that the churchian priestocracy was a creation of Saul as st.Paul, no authorized by jesus or the resurrected Christ.

>>"He did not come to this world for making any Group or religion."
Yes, jesus just preached compassion for all mankind. Resurrected christ asked Saul to propagate the teachings of jesus. Saul became St.Paul and established the conversionist churchian priestocracy.

>>" About him what is written in Bible “Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace”.
You are again talking of the bible as the only authorty; also equating the son and father [what about the 'holy spirit', also mentioned in the bible]. (to continue}
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Nov 06, 2008 12:00 AM
318
This is really a good testimony. In the last time God is using his vessels from every corner for the Glory of God. According to the Bible “ at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father” . No one in the world can make any kind of hindrance at the work of Almighty. JESUS CHRIST is not the God of Christian Religion. The Christian religion is not being made by Jesus Christ. He did not come to this world for making any Group or religion. About him what is written in Bible “Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” He is the only God of all, even a Hindu, Muslim or any; He is the only Father of all. The Everlasting Father came this world to search out the sinner children and wipe out their sins forever. And the Loving Father paid full price for the sin. The disciples of Jesus Christ were never being wandered here and there with the intention of making any religion or any Church.
JOSE JOHN
Ratlam, India
Nov 03, 2008 12:00 AM
317
Why do people cry foul at conversions? Monetary allurements forcing conversions are a convenient myth propagated by those who feel insecure with their own religion. Everyone has a right to practice his or her faith. Though a Christian convert myself, I have many close friends from other religions and other countries with whom I am perfectly at peace. It is a minor fraction of fundamentalists who instigate and encourage intolerance against Christians as happened recently in Orissa and Bangalore. But great majority of our countrymen are indeed enlightened and tolerant of other religions and such do our great country proud.
Gobinath Vasanth Kumar, Scotland
Vasanth
Aberdeen, United Kingdom
Nov 03, 2008 12:00 AM
316
Hi Anand,

Its really really an encouraging article.I would wish that you continue to publish articles like this so that many people who are unaware of the truth can atleast know it in this way.
I highly appreciate your publishing. May God bless You !!

Sumi
sumi anilcy
Bangalore, India
Nov 01, 2008 12:00 AM
315
Anand Mahadevan's story typically speaks of the spiritual experiences that many well-to-do and educated people, who possessed the real urge to seek and find a simple and convincing answer to their quest for the meaning of their mortal life in this world. Religion means an organizational set up of people with certain types of beliefs and rituals where money, power and ego have more role to play than the individual's relationship with God and the Spiritual realm. The spiritual gene in humans compel him to seek his Spiritual Father or Creator just as a child seeks its father or mother. That in-built urge makes almost all humans to accept the existence of God. A child is incapable of seeking and understanding its father's desire and plans about him. So the father himself has to guide the child till the child acquires the competency to understand and abide him. The same applies in the case of the Spiritual Father and His materialistic children. Without His guidance we are handicapped to seek and find Him. Our pride may not accept that fact, though. Jesus Christ gave convincing answer to that. That is the real reason why siritually anxious people seeking Him. For others it is difficult to understand. Being a name-sake Christian myself, I could not understand that for decades. But some true Christians with non-christian names made me to understand this in the recent years!
Rajan C Mathew
Bhilai, India
Nov 01, 2008 12:00 AM
314
Hello Brother in Christ
Nice to know that the Light of the Living God shone in your life as with millions of people whose lives were transformed through the saving grace of Lord Jesus Christ. I would like to inform that my father was a Nair convert and my mother is a Brahmin convert. Both found the truth not by inducements and cohersions but by their own accord.They have paid a very high price to become CHRISTIANS. Happy to tell my mother relatives are now slowly experience the transformations in their lives even though some them they are still priests in the Thirupathi and Bhadrachalam temples.
Jeff Kurup
Hyderabad, India
Nov 01, 2008 12:00 AM
313
HI Anand,

Thanks for being forthright and frank about a vexing issue that has been given a lot of media coverage. Sometimes I wonder if the people who are said to offer enticements for conversions are christians at all. Christ would never approve of it.

Best wishes,

John
John Matthew
Mumbai, India
Oct 31, 2008 12:00 AM
312
>>>"when we become followers of Jesus Christ, he transforms our hearts, our lives, not our so called religions"

This can happen only if, as devotee of christ, you have NO hatred or despise for other relig, or other gods, since jesus is only skanda, the wisdom-mercy aspect of polymorphic monotheistic hinduism. If you consider hindus 'pagans' and contribute to your church for leaflet-based conversions, while also claiming and taking hinduist caste-reserv advantages, while feeling strongly non-hindu and anti-hindu at heart, you will lose the grace of jesus very soon. If you just write a devout piece, very nicely, in the name of Anand, and then go on praising yourself, in various other names, the grace and joy can turn into disgrace and despair, very soon. Watch out!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 31, 2008 12:00 AM
311
Dear M Anand,
Reading your testimony in outlook was a moment of joy and pride. Joy, that the world will know that when we become followers of Jesus Christ, he transforms our hearts, our lives, not our so called religions. Pride, to know that outlook is a great magazine that speaks the truth in an candid way.
I have known you as a brother in Christ and as a co-worker and can testify that ever word you wrote is true. God bless you and your family.
sarang
mumbai, India
Oct 30, 2008 12:00 AM
310
Mathai:>>"Like Madhaven many have accepted Christ as their personal saviour with out being forced"

Your statement applies equally well to all hindus who worship any ishTa-devata of their choice; protection, guidance and salvation for their souls, equally firmly assured.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 30, 2008 12:00 AM
309
Incredible article. Like Madhaven many have accepted Christ as their personal saviour with out being forced. This is the truth. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,(Jesus Christ) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 (THE BIBLE).
Mathai Chackochen
Chennai, India
Oct 29, 2008 12:00 AM
308
Just got a message back from the Toronto Anand Mahadevan ... he was not the author of this op-ed piece despite the linguistic and cultural congruity.

Apparently this author does not have a very high online profile for a Business Outlook editor. I am still suspicious of his motives.
Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada
Oct 29, 2008 12:00 AM
307
I had seen this article on a different site and googled Anand. If the writer was not using a pseudonym, he is a novelist from Toronto who teaches at Humber College and occasionally contributes to the Howard Hughes Medical Institute' Ask a Scientist program, where he studied.

On his personal website he doesn't mention Outlook Business and neither is he mentioned on theirs.

http://www.anand-mahadevan.ca/


http://business.outlookindia.com/


The information in the article is consistent with his life story and Tamilian background. However, he does not mention the US, Canada or Toronto in this article. It reads like the author is still living in India.

I am copying the contact address on his website to get clarification on whether he really wrote this article.

This dated entry reveals more...
"Rejected by an English diamond prospector, ANAND MAHADEVAN managed to dip into the American aviator and industrialist Howard Hughes's estate for a graduate fellowship in the United States before returning to Toronto. He now writes about queer and diasporic South Asian identities while teaching science at the University of Toronto Schools. He is at work on his first novel."
http://www.kissmachine.org/node/11


At this time of fragile religious tensions in India, I am surprised that no one has verified the credentials of the author and authenticity of this article.

Kevin Saldanha
ps. I haven't read through all 61 pages of comments.
Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada
Oct 28, 2008 12:00 AM
306
Hi

This article is a simple voice of truth in the ever increasing confusions of an Indian.I truly appreciate the author for comming out with truth and full of Boldness. I totally agree that "My conversion was not a change of religion; it was a change of heart ". We as indian part of one of the most tolerable culture in the world has been deprived of its peace, due to some extremism. We the people should not allow such extremism to dominate our society.This article is definetly an eye openner . Thanks
robinson
Bangalore, India
Oct 28, 2008 12:00 AM
305
Hello Mahadevan,

You have given a candid opinion about religion and the way you chanced upon Christianity. You said that your friend's family articulated a prayer of blessing on YOUR life, YOUR future, YOUR career and YOUR family which influenced you (which changed your heart).

Considering your age (you were 19), it was that 'YOU' factor which influenced your mind.
I felt sorry to read that you learnt many shlokas (some of them still fresh in your memory) which you never understood; which never helped you to connect with God. Let me ask you one question - Did you ever take a deliberate effort to understand their meaning? Even if you understood their meaning I dont think you would be fascinated by them. Because the slokas and mantras are not for personal benefit. Those prayers are for the wellbeing of the mankind, wellbeing of the Nature, Universe.

When a pooja or homa is performed, the 'haviss' is submitted by chanting "Idam na mama" (Not for me, but for world's welfare).

People like you who always craves for higher social status and who is after personal material benefits cannot fathom the true value of those teachings.

Dileep
Bangalore, India
Oct 28, 2008 12:00 AM
304
A good one
SANTHOSH THANAPAUL
kuwait, kuwait
Oct 27, 2008 12:00 AM
303
The Confusion of Christian Conversion
I am glad that the present article throws light that gospel is a message of transformation and not conversion. I congratulate Mr. Mahadevan for the article. In the present context I would like to add the following comments.
There is a confusion over the word Hindu, Hinduism and conversions. First of all, the word Hindu means people living on this side of river Indus or Hindustan. It is a geographical identity of people living in India. Sanadhana Dharma was the original name of Hinduism. India is the only country where the identity of people and religion got mixed up and made into Hinduism. This mix up could have done by some foreigners as they found difficulty in pronouncing sanadhana dharma. Now if we go strictly by the definition we follow, then sanadhana dharma should be called as Simhalism in Sri Lanka. Similarly the Christians should be called Antiochists as Antioch was the place where the followers of Christ were called Christians for the first time.
Now we come to the conversion issue. Though Christianity looks very complex with all its divisions and sub divisions, the message of gospel (Suvartha) from Param Atma Pitha (God) is very simple. When we loose a pet, say a dog, we go and search for it instead of sitting at home for it to return. This is because we consider that dog needs our help to return home, though it belongs to the same class mamalia which we belong to. If this logic is true, then how can a finite man find Param Atma Pitha (God) and get reconciled? So Param Atma Pitha (God) sent His son (image), Christu dev, to pay the penalty of man’s sin by shedding his blood on the cross. Whoever accepts this “yaga” as his personal yaga and acknowledges Christu dev as his personal Saviour is reconciled to Param Atma Pitha. This is the simple message of Suvartha (gospel). Now this is a personal choice and belief. Thus a person can be a Christu Bhakt in his own community. In fact if the word Hindu is defined as mentioned above, I would rather call me a Christu Bhakt Hindu than a Christian. Suvartha is a message of transformation and it is not a message for conversion. More details may be found in “Christu Bhakt Hindus” in
http://www.chaloglobal.com.

Dr. John T. Eapen
Dahanu Road, India
Oct 27, 2008 12:00 AM
302
Well I appreciate Anand Mahadevan for such a beautiful article. He has importantly focused on the point that conversation is just a tag word used by the it is change of heart. His experience will certainly have greater impact and this thing had to be understood by many in our nation that though we (followers of Christ)have been blamed for long now that we are involved in forceful conversation. Hardly there are any cases brought out. It makes me so bad to feel that though we are not separating ourselves for the cultural identity of India, few people are trying to infuse this idea into the hearts of people.I say it few because at large people are open to us as Christians. But these few are causing the unnecessary damage in various ways.
Satyajit Deodhar
Nagpur, India
Oct 27, 2008 12:00 AM
301
Excellent! Thanks to Mr Mahadevan for boldly sharing his thought during these turbulent times. One thing I wish to add is that Christ does not need inducement to propagate His love for humanity. He has already done His best on the cross of calvary and to offer inducements will only demean the richness of His sacrifice to save the world. God bless you Mr Mahadevan!
Deepak Samuel
Chennai, India
Oct 26, 2008 12:00 AM
300
Ruby Reddy:>>"Christianity is not a religion its a relationship with Jesus Christ. This is an important concept which people needs to know"

Exactly. The churchian priestocracy is an unnecessary addendum. The resurrected christ=Siva asked Saul = St. Paul, only to spread the message of universal love in full spiritual selfknowledge, given by Jesus = Skanda.
But, Paul established the priestocracy of churches, nun-convents, orphanages, selling 'pardons' to sinners. Rudra = Siva came again as Luther to reform the church. But, churchianity continues to devilze the chr and human world at large, socially, economically and politically.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 26, 2008 12:00 AM
299
Awesome Testimony !!!! Christianity is not a religion its a relationship with Jesus Christ. This is an important concept which people needs to know.
Ruby Reddy
Hyderabad, India
Oct 26, 2008 12:00 AM
298
>>I at leasst cited the Encyclopaedia Britannica. What sources have you ever cited?

As if this is a battle of sources...

>>One thing I notice about you, Augustus. You find it impossible to be fair to Hindus.

Define fair. I treat everyone as adults....by taking their ideas seriously and analyzing the assumptions behind them, their implications and their consequences. That's my idea of respecting them. There's no patronising in that.

>>I deeply fear Muslim intolerance and totalitarianism.

I deeply fear anybody's intolerance and totalitarianism. I happen to think they don't have a monopoly on them.

>>They hsve a cruel history in India. Yet I readily admit that in the first few centuries of Islam Islamic societies did produce lots of pioneering science, building on Greek and Hindu achievements.

You are unwilling to attribute any positive aspects to their religion, yet ready to draw a direct causal link to any and every negative aspect, both real and imagined.

>>I dislike the Christian attempt to obliterate other religions and take over the Hindus' only sizable country. Yet I respect Christian piety.

As far as I know, their objective is not to obliterate anyone. They claim they have a simple message of hope and love. If people find it attractive and adopt it, that is merely free persons exercising their choices. If they don't, they don't. Preventing free flow of ideas and impinging on individual rights is my idea of totalitarianism.

>>I don't like US capitalism's buccaneering tendency, but deeply respect the freedom of that society.

The fact you don't see the connection between the two is your misfortune. True capitalism requires orderliness to harness creativity, talent and energy that is distributed over all sorts of people, caste not withstanding.

>>I despise communist totalitarianism, but believe Marx did say some highly intelligent things about the nature of social change and capitalism.

He started with wrong set of assumptions while making grandiose claims and wreaking unparalleled havoc on humanity in the 20th century.

>>In short, I try to give credit where credit is due.

You do it poorly.

>>I have yet to read a single friendly or respectful word from you about us Hindus. We deserve better than that.

If it weren't for millions and millions of decent, hardworking Hindus who are worthy of emulating in many respects, our country couldn't even function in the rickety fashion it does. Respecting Hindus and critiquing Hindu ideas are two different activities.

>>We are an old civilization that has contributed something to the world, for all our faults, which I deplore and hope to see reformed.

It pisses me off that a country pulsating with so many energetic, talented, hardworking and decent people from all stripes and religions can't seem to get its shit together. We deserve better than what we have. We can't fix it until we know what's causing it....not some glib superficial cause but deep, structural, philosophical causes.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 26, 2008 12:00 AM
297
AUGUSTUS AAA:

I at leasst cited the Encyclopaedia Britannica. What sources have you ever cited?

One thing I notice about you, Augustus. You find it impossible to be fair to Hindus.

I deeply fear Muslim intolerance and totalitarianism. They hsve a cruel history in India. Yet I readily admit that in the first few centuries of Islam Islamic societies did produce lots of pioneering science, building on Greek and Hindu achievements.

I dislike the Christian attempt to obliterate other religions and take over the Hindus' only sizable country. Yet I respect Christian piety.

I don't like US capitalism's buccaneering tendency, but deeply respect the freedom of that society.

I despise communist totalitarianism, but believe Marx did say some highly intelligent things about the nature of social change and capitalism.

In short, I try to give credit where credit is due.

I have yet to read a single friendly or respectful word from you about us Hindus. We deserve better than that.

We are an old civilization that has contributed something to the world, for all our faults, which I deplore and hope to see reformed.
Iqbal Z
Pune, India
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
296
>>So ends another very satisfactory debate, with the result: game, set and match to me.

Then you should take a victory lap......around the halls of the insane asylum you inhabit with the rest of the other inmates placing laurels on your head.

Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
295
AUGUSTUS AAA:

So ends another very satisfactory debate, with the result: game, set and match to me.

Rather than taking on debates with only back-street fantasies to support your bizarre case you would do better to drink soma with the Hindus. Maybe you do already - hence your psychosomatic arguments.
Iqbal Z
Pune, India
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
294
Yuk Boob, still reeling, mutters:

>>It was Islam retarding science of course - when the intolerance of its monotheism took hold. That is why monotheism has its dangers - in history it has led to fiercely intolerant and powerful churches, which have retarded science.

you sound like a mindless programmed robot that merely repeats itself

>>Debating with you has been funny.

debating you has been a bore since you lack historical knowledge, penetrating insight, compelling logic, clarifying expression or scintillating wit.

>>It gives an insight into the patheic back-street fantasies which churchian bigots use to soothe their their bruised ego in a world which pays scant respect to their tawdry totalitarian superstitions.

like snakes swallowing up moons and homicidal goons frothing at their mouths when others others investigate their religious options and choose for themselves?
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
293
Several typos in the message below
Iqbal Z
Pune, India
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
292

AUGUSTUS AAA

It was Islam retarding science of course - when the intolerance of its monotheism took hold. That is why monotheism has its dangers - in history it has led to fiercely intolerant and powerful churches, which have retarded science.

The trouble with Christian monotheism in Europe was the same - it too led to fiercely intolerant churches. Eventually Christianity did become more easy-going theologically - but not before the most frightful and costly struggles.

Blamng it on "society" is a cheap copout. The society of Greece and Rome had been religiously incomparably more tolerant under polytheism, and scientifically creative. This changed after the coming of the religion of the pretentious Middle Eastern bigot known as the Son of Man.

As for your moronic point about the poor Chinese and the all-wise Jesuit fanatics....I suggest it may be that those Chinese had somewhat more questioning minds than you or the Jesuit taliban which was interrogating them.

At least the Chinese may possinbly have known what you seem unwilling to acknowledge - that their poor "heathen" society had made several great contributions to human progress - including inventing the very compass which made it possible for the sneering Jesuit bigots to come to China - assuming they came by ship.

The Hindus were baffled, poor heathen souls, by black cows givnmg white milk?...Dear me ! I suppose they decided not abstain from mlk thereafter and concentrate on inventing the zero-based numeral system which is fundamental to mathematics today. The poor brainless heathens!

Debating with you has been funny. It gives an insight into the patheic back-street fantasies which churchian bigots use to soothe their their bruised ego in a world which pays scant respect to their tawdry totalitarian superstitions.
Iqbal Z
Pune, India
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
291
Now, that Outlook has given space and forum for a heart-tugging Christian convert 'story', they need to publish a 'story' or ‘stories’ of 'formerly Christians' who converted 'back' to say Hinduism or Buddhism or Animism or Celtism or Paganism or Daoism or other native cultures or converted to New age spirituality or Scientology.

There are countless 'stories' around the world of 'formerly Christians' reverting back (or forward?) to their PRE-Christian origins and their roots - to reconstruct what has forcibly been taken away / destroyed by the aggressive actions of the standard bearers of the monotheistic faith in all the 7 continents.

That would be worth while reading too.
Priya Madhavan
Rochester, United States
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
290
faruki

i would like some of the members who are happy with faruki,s language please speak up.

i am sure he will be happy to recieve feed back.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
289
francis

you suffer from low self esteem.

how about usa- do you feel inferior because i
presume you are dark in colour.

as a hindu in europe i had to answer some real awkward questions- about cows, sati, and so forth.

i did not behave like a victim.

i feel proud of my hindu culture-

today the west is enchanted by india, and its not for its mosques or churches.

its for temples, the way hindu women dress,our
colourful festivals.

christianity is centred round jesus, and islam around mohammet.

in the hindu religion, we have the most incredulous myths of gods , godesses, demons,
serpents. it has a unbeatble story of the ramayana, the mahabharata- which are suitable
for the commom people, and also for intellectuals
,because it poses many moral dilemnas.

christianity and islam have do,s donts as if for
school kids.

a hindu has to decide these himself, following
the guidance of the various teachings.

if you want to be a christian , its ok with most hindus. frankly buddy,we dont give a damn.

but for christs sake dont unload your various complexes and problems on to us hindus.

muslims and christians live in their own neighbourhoods, and some in mixed neighbourhoods.

there are modern high rise buildings and anyone can buy an apartment. hindu neighbours will always be polite and friendly.

my danish christian family has visited india.
they were simply enchanted at the hospitality they recieved- and still remember what they call their indian family.

i am shocked to read both christian s and muslims complain so much about their lives in india. if you do have so many problems most likely it has something to do with you.

finally how friendly are muslims and christians with each other.

in denmark one hospital(s) imported 30 hindu doctors. they told the press.

hindus are like us. they are peaceful and tolerant people.

luck they did not read the blogs in outlook india.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
288
Arul,

>> i am waiting for a movie from bollywood on the life of jesus.

You can do no better than the 1964 Italian movie "The Gospel According to St. Matthew" made by Pier Paolo Pasolini, himself a communist, with his own mother playing Virgin Mary. Many people still consider it to be the best movie ever made on the life of Jesus.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
287
*What is irrefutable, however,
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
286
Lalit,

>> it seems that all your opponents come from the gutter.

I use that term only for the habitual hate spewers. The majority of people who disagree with me are not hate spewers.

Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
285
Yuk boob writes,

>>Thank you anyhow for setting your absurd opinions out so starkly. That will enable me to answer them more easily.

I doubt it.

>>Does the progress of science require the acceptance of monotheism? This seems to be your view.

I don't know if "progress" requires it. I suspect not. Plenty of atheistic scientists who push the frontiers of science everyday.

Whether monotheism was necessary for science to have began or could it have begun otherwise is a close question.

What is not irrefutable, however, is that in the course of actual human history, Jewish monotheism did lay the predicate to conduct science.

Why was it that in the 19th century, after much science was discovered, the Chinese were still incredulous about Jesuit claims that universe obeyed a set of fixed principles? Why?

>>Early Islam, relatively tolerant and enquiring even in matters of religion, produced a lot of important science, building on the achievements of polytheistic Greece and India. By contrast, the later, far more religiously dogmatic Islamic states put an end to science.

Which should raise your suspicion that it wasn't Islam retarding the science as much as the character of the society that adopted Islam which retarded contributions to science.

>>Europe, where tolerant polytheism had been crushed by a harsh form of monotheism called Christianity, for centuries went backwards from the Greek and Roman achievements in science. Only when the power of the Christian church began to be challenged did Europe begin to make sustained scientific progress.

The burst of scientific activity in the 15th and 16th century occurred when Christianity (not the church) was unquestioned.

>>What this seems to show is that scientific progress is not a function of the nature of religious belief - for or against monotheism as such.

But it has to get started first. My point is that Jewish monotheism actually got it started.

>>What is important is that you need a society where people have some real freedom of debate and experiment, where the church is not too strong.

The ideas of freedom of debate came from Christian experience. For Galileo kept his faith and didn't think he was undermining religion with his findings...

>>The trouble with monotheism is that it leads to powerful and dominating churches and INTOLERANT theologies, and this makes the progress of experimental thought cricial to science very hard.

Balderdash. It was Jewish monotheism that is SOLELY responsible for the idea of inherent dignity of a man because he was "created in God's image." That is why human life is regarded as cheap and dispensable by societies that haven't bought into that premise.

>>A look at the contemporary Muslim world, where tough monotheism rules, indicates as much.

You are attributing all its social pathologies to religion, when the evidence doesn't warrant it.

>>If your theory were right, Saudi Arabia would be the most scientifically creative society today. There the monotheistic god rules in all his glory.

You are having that white milk from brown cow problem again...

>>Your dicta about the necessity of a rational creator to explain the universe are boringly childish.

I will take that to mean you don't have a response.

>>If the material world can be understood by reason, that does not, except to primitive hill-billy fatatics, necessarily imply a creator.

It was the belief in a rational creator that motivated search for rational principles that governs the universe.

>>Because that claim immediately raises the question: who created the creator?

Any creator who was created isn't worth his salt..

>>Grow up, man. Don't bore us with these taliban fanatical idiocies.

taliban, huh?
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 25, 2008 12:00 AM
284
this business of "i am in every other way still culturally a hindu" but just this one little thing is christian. oh please, can't you see that 'if you prick me, do i not bleed' appeal is so craven and ingratiating and self-negating. ugh! why? the extreme right is going to hate you no matter how much you try to "fit in" or "keep a low profile", why not just say, like gloria gaynor, "life's not worth a damn till you can shout out i am what i am"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWSobRjebkk


i feel bad for all the young people who have to live with this shame just for being christian. when i was growing up in madras it wasn't like this. being christian was a group identity just like any other, like being a gounder or a mudaliar or a chettiar or a nadar. no different. that was indira gandhi's india. we were poorer but mentally we had more room. now this cramped sense of shame and loss of dignity, all after 1990. vajpayee and manmohan singh and their new india. oh indira gandhi, how i miss you, despite your many many flaws. we could stand taller then.
Arul Francis
Clayton, California
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
283

Against Sonia & Churchians....
>> Only Shiva = Allah should save the hindua and moslems of india from Sonia, her
antinational polits and polit's-men!

Agaisnt Muslims......
My personal view is that, by then, it will be recognized widely that jesus=skanda, mary=gauree, and chr is only a part of hinduism in polymorphic monothestic format, with jesus and mary as additional ishtadevataa deities. Finally, The hindus and christians and jews, also the other indic religions, may all have to fight for survival, together, only against exponentially exploding population bomb of the moslems, all over the world.

Sheshadri Sir:
Both the above posting are on same day, if i remember correctly, made by yourself in two different articles.

In the first part Shiva = Allah;
In the second part Jesus =Skanda.

Is it possible to apply the Old formula A = B, B=C. Therefore A = C can be applied somewhere here !!
VIJAYA LAXMANAN
MAVELIKKARA, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
282
yakoob musa

save your breath pal, to cool your porridge,
instead of argueing with ganjaboy, and his christian choir.

the truth is that only turds pretend that they
are some thing special.

christian, muslims are certainly no better then
hindus, budhists or what ever.

in no way-in any field have they been able to do os.

just being racist as usual, a donkey can not convert it self into a raceing stallion. its
not religion, but race, and ethnicity which can
be the decideing factor.and this is debateable.

acording to my prejudiced mind the white protesant anglo saxons are the best,with or without religion

if christians in this forum want to believe in the church fables, so be it. i can say with confidence that it will not get them any where.

wild horses would not drag me to an evening
service with these sheepheads. i would prefer
to spend it with my drinking friends in the local pub, along with some smashing,and some not so smashing broads.

i prefer the birds in hand, to those in paradise.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
281


Foundation of Christianity can be summarised in some of the follwoing verses written by Saint Paul. Please note that Saint Paul was one of Jewish fundamentalists who harrassed and destroyed followers of Jesus Christ.

Later become one of the MOST ardent followers of Jesus Christ.

From I Corinth Chapter 13 written by St.Paul...

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge and

If I have faith in God that can move mountains, BUT I HAVE NOT LOVE, I am nothing.

Love is Patient,
Love is Kind,
It does not Envy,
It does not Boast,
It is not Proud,
It is not Rude,
It is not Self-seaking,
It is not easily Angered,
It keeps no record of Wrongs,

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

It always protects,
Always trusts,
Always hopes,
Always perseveres.

The above verses are not to claim to superiority over any other religion. I am sure, equally mind soothing verses will be in other holy books also.

I am just highlighting the simplicity of the messages.

JAYADEVAN T J
Kerala, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
280
Dear Anand Mahadevan,

Thank you for sharing this wonderful experience inspite of this expected arrogance of some members of this forum.

My Great grand fathers (from my father and mother side)were also converted christians. My great grand father was also a priest in a famous temple of kerala.

Even now, my name is a hindu name, my father's name is a hindu name, my grand father's name is a hindu name. my own house name is a hindu name.

In functions marriages we serve only pure vegetarian foods. Even now in our home we cook only pure vegetarian food.

What I want to highlight, is conversion does not lead to the demise of any cultural identity.

If I feel tomorrow, budhism is good, I will change to budhism. It is somebody's personal decision.

No group or no amount coercion can take away that liberty of an individual.

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ,
and the love of God,
and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit
be with you and all members of this forum.


JAYADEVAN T J
Kerala, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
279
Mr. Mahadevan... After reading your inner feelings on change of heart I have a better suggestion... 1. Your journey is not over yet ...you are only half way away from your final destination. that is Islam... If you read Quran with open mind you will see real enlighment mentally and spritually. You can read English translation of Quran/ talk to your muslim friends about it. Why stop half of the way ? Take full success brother. (same suggestion for my jewish cousins)
2. Jesus was a very dignified prophet like Abraham, Moses, and Muhammad. But jeses was not son of God. Can yoy say Adam was son of God.
Muhammad was sent towards all humanity as a final messenger/prophet with final message/book (Quran).
Shakeel Zia
new york, United States
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
278
It is an excellent confession of faith from Mahadevan. Just as a Brahmin requires a decision to follow Christ, a Christian too needs to make a decision to follow Christ. Following Christ is not a religion. It is THE way of Life. I am fifth generation Christian. My identity is Christian but I was not a follower of Christ till I was 30 (Mahadevan is fortunate that he made that choice at 19). You do not become a car, if you are born in a car. So, a person born in a Christian family does not become a Christian. It is by a decision, one becomes a Christian. I became a true follower of Christ, from being a ‘Christian’ by religion. I am not the same person. God has made me incapable of the intense hatred that once I was capable of. He has made a caring person, from being a self-centred, angry, proud indifferent man. Christianity did not make me a better person. Christ did and still continuing with that process!
Prem
Tirunelveli, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
277
>> The key is to refrain from ingesting psychedelic roots and leaves when wandering around the forest.

As expected, retiring to forests is not adequate. Stupid conditions have to be added to it.

>> That way there aren't any hallucinations gunning after the forest-retirees.

Hallucinations using automatic weapons are not harmful for health. Mercenaries on the other hand, well!
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
276
Yuk Boob writes:

>>You are such a blind biblically-superstitious dogmatist....

blah blah blah blah. I was hoping to discuss with someone with more knowledge than mere encyclopedic entries.

>>I can only advice you to drop your dogmatism long enough to read the readily-available article.

There isn't much that you know that I don't know.

>>As for the Jews and science – I have seen any number of histories of science with large parts of them devoted to the achievements of the Greeks, large bits to the Chinese, the Hindus, and the Arabs, too. I have yet to see a history of science which suggested the Jews had a significant role in science prior to modern times. There is one exception to this: the undoubted participation of Jewish scientists in the development of science during the first centuries of Islam, especially in Spain. But that golden age of Islamic science came to an end precisely because monotheistic dogmatism asserted itself and shut down rational enquiry in the world of Islam.

You still don't get it. What makes science possible? If the universe were chaotic, arbitrary, operating according to no fixed principles and/or resultant of various gods fighting among themselves, why should one expect it to understand it by studying it?

It is the Hebrew insight/revelation, whatever you want to call it, that universe had a beginning and was created by a rational creator. And that his character is reflected in his creation which pronounced it as "good." Without this presupposition of the rational intelligibility of the universe, only a crazy man would attempt to study it and expect to understand it. The only people who provided the theoretical basis for the rational intelligibility of the universe are Hebrews.

In contrast, Vedic gods were puzzled over how white milk can come out of brown cows. When the puzzle was too confounding, they went back to gulping down soma.

>>If Christianity was somehow central to the development of science, it is odd that the progress of science has sharply reduced the authority of the church and the religion in Western life. It would have been news to Galileo who was forced by the Catholic Church to recant his idea that the earth moved round the sun. Recently the Catholic Church apologised for this “error” – a few centuries too late. So much for Christianity as a mover of scientific progress.

Your knowledge of the Galileo incident, like everything else, comes from comic books. It was the secular scientists who were worried about the threat to Aristotelian system of knowledge around which they built their epistemology. Galileo threatened to undo it when he insisted that observation is also needed in addition to a priori reasoning.

From his a priori reasoning, Aristotle claimed planets traveled in perfect circles. Building on a polish mathematician's insight, Galileo's observations raised questions about that claim. The rest of that fascinating story is too complex to go into here.

Scientists like Newton, Faraday et al, claimed their minds were gifts from God that enabled them to study and understand "his creation." That science and religion were at loggerheads is a recent interpretation called "the conflict thesis" popularized by John Draper in the 19th century.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
275
I am truly so happy to read the coversion of yours. I too became a disciple to follow Jesus 19 years back and still practising my faith on Him. I also come from a hindu tamil iyengar background and exactly agree with the points which you have mentioned in the article which is also in many ways very similar to my life. Thanks for sharing your faith which inspires every believer in Jesus to hold on to the faith.
Sampath Kumar Seshadri
New Delhi, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
274
>>Not sure that is adequate. Missionaries have been known to hire mercenaries to gun down people even in forests.

The key is to refrain from ingesting psychedelic roots and leaves when wandering around the forest. That way there aren't any hallucinations gunning after the forest-retirees.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
273
Glory to God! :-)
Preeti Krishnan
Bangalore, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
272
I am provoked to write this
By M.S.N. Menon part 2

The Church had a big hand in slave trade. If there was a conscience problem, it
helped to ease it by saying that the black man was the son of the Devil.

Denouncing the trade in black men, Lord Palmerston says: “If all crimes
committed from creation down to the present day were added together, they would
not exceed, I am sure, the guilt of the diabolic slave trade.” In America
Lincoln had to fight a civil war to outlaw the trade. The Church was behind the
rebel southern States.

According to the Church, the dark races were not required in God’s scheme of
things.

The genocide of the Incas, Mayas and others has no parallel in human history.
They were more civilised than the Europeans. “By millions upon millions”
says Draper “whole races and nations were remorselessly cut off. The Bishop of
Chiape affirmed that more than 15 million were terminated in his time. From
Mexico and Peru, a civilisation that might have educated Europe, was crushed
out.” (Intellectual Development of Europe, Vol. II)

On Galileo’s incarceration, Draper writes: “What a spectacle! This
venerable man, the most illustrious of his age, forced by the threat of death to
deny the facts…treated with remorseless severity during the remaining ten
years of his life….” In the dungeon.

There is nothing in human history as diabolic as the Inquisition. It was
created by the Popes to perfect the “art” of torture of the apostates. I can
only think of the gas chambers of the Nazis, which did away with six million
Jews. “What strikes me most in considering medieval torture is not so much
this diabolic barbarity, which is impossible to exaggerate, as the extraordinary
variety and what may be termed the artistic skills they displayed”. (Lecky)

What else can one expect from a religion which had thought of eternal hell fire
as a punishment for even small wrongs of men!

What about Islam? Space compels me to make it a short review. In his book “In
the path of Mahatma Gandhi”, George Catlin, the American philosopher, asks:
“What has Islam to offer to compare with the philosophy of Vedanta and the
Upanishads?” So much for its “Superiority” claim!

Be that as it may, what is the record of Islam’s atrocities? “The Islamic
conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history,” says Will
Durant, the American historian.

The Muslims do not want to be reminded of their past. But it is necessary, says
S.Bashiruddin, former Vice Chancellor of Dr. Ambedkar Open University. (See his
‘Deen and Dharma”). He says: “Through the present generation of Muslims is
not responsible for what has been done centuries ago, an awareness of such a
legacy can sensitize the Muslim opinion leaders…”

With such a record of their past, I would like to know from Christian and
Muslim brothers, in which way they are “superior” to the Hindus. Do not tell
me that your religious texts do not permit these things. This is an easy
explanation. I don’t take it. Men are judged by what they do, not by what they
believe or by what is written in their scripture.

namo4
London, United Kingdom
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
271
I am provoked to write this
By M.S.N. Menon part 1

Yes. When I’m told that Hindus “live in darkness” I’m provoked.

I’m a Hindu, not the usual one, for I took the trouble to make a special
study of human civilisations and religious atrocities. Naturally, I see
religions in a different light. Not the way the “faithful” see them.

Religions are full of lies and false claims. The Jews claimed they were “the
chosen people of God.” Where did this delusion take them? To the worst
persecution known to man! They remain the object of the longest hate in human
history.

Take Christianity. What is its claim and what is the reality? It claims to have
civilised Europe. In fact, it destroyed one of the greatest civilisations of
man—the Greek civilisation. Vassili Vassilevsky, one of the most stimulating
authors of Greece, says: “It took us inheritors of a joyous paganistic
culture, a long time to internalise the notion of ‘guilt’. Even today we do
not wholly accept the idea that the body is the source of evil.” And yet Jesus
had said that the “Kingdom of God is within you.” Then, who put the Devil
inside the Christian to torment them? The Organised Church.

And it also destroyed the Roman empire. One of the first acts of the Christians
(that of Emperor Theodisius), when they came to power in Rome, was to order the
destruction of the most splendid library in the temple of Serapis. Obviously,
the Church had no desire for enlightenment. The Hindus pray for light daily.

The Church converted the pagan temples into tombs, says W.E.H. Lecky, “for
the adoration of the bones of the basest and most depraved of men among the
Christian monks.” (History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of
Rationalism in Europe”, Vol.II)

And a Christian mob stripped and cut into pieces a gifted, virtuous and
beautiful lady in Alexandria. What was her crime? That she was the leader of the
Neo-Platonists!

The Roman empire had produced some of the great men in history like poets
Horace and Virgil, historians like Livy and Polybius, philosophers like
Epictetus and Plotinus, orators like Cicero, lawgivers like Cato. What did
Christianity produce in the 1500 years of its dominance over Europe? Not one man
of greatness! And almost every great man who was born in Europe after the
Renaissance was outside the Church.

And the Roman empire spread the Hellenistic civilisation in half the world.
What has the Christian empire to show?

It is the claim of the church that it made a major contribution to the growth
of morality in Europe. In fact, it made little contribution. It called
Descartes, father of moral philosophy, an atheist! The Church gave its blessings
to both capitalism and imperialism. And later to colonialism. Secretary of State
Amery (UK) says that an active empire and an inactive Church cannot go together
namo4
London, United Kingdom
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
270
all the claims of christian fanatics and their supporters like OUTLOOK are hollow. see how the christians are attacking another indian religion, budhism. it is high time that all the indic religions like hinduism, budhism, sikhism etc which have their origins in the vedas and upnishads should come together and defeat the evil designs of christains and muslims..

""Religious peace in our country is being threatened by those who dream of turning it into a medieval Christian kingdom through a church elder-president," said Park Jeong Kyu, a spokesman for the Jogye Order"



http://www.iht.com/arti...10/14/asia/buddhist.php


namo4
London, United Kingdom
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
269
Swami Vivekananda's Speeches
The World Parliament of Religions,
Chicago
---------------------------------------
--
WELCOME ADDRESS - Chicago, Sept 11, 1893

The present convention, which is one of the most august assemblies ever held, is in itself a vindication, a declaration to the world of the wonderful doctrine preached in the Gita: "Whosoever comes to Me, through whatsoever form, I reach him; all men are struggling through paths which in the end lead to me." Sectarianism, bigotry, and its horrible descendant, fanaticism, have long possessed this beautiful earth. They have filled the earth with violence, drenched it often and often with human blood, destroyed civilization and sent whole nations to despair. Had it not been for these horrible demons, human society would be far more advanced than it is now. But their time is come; and I fervently hope that the bell that tolled this morning in honor of this convention may be the death-knell of all fanaticism, of all persecutions with the sword or with the pen, and of all uncharitable feelings between persons wending their way to the same goal.

God, Not Bajrang dal/VHP/RSS, save India and Hinduism from Kaliuga Ravanas.

VIJAYA LAXMANAN
MAVELIKKARA, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
268
Religion is a mobile phone. I use religion to communicate with God.

Yesterday, I was using ONIDA mobiel phone.
I felt that quality is not good.

So I changed my mobile to Nokia.
I felt that sound clarity is good.
This does not mean that NOKIA is technically superior to ONIDA. For me I found and felt that NOKIA is good.

My change of mobile phone does not make Nokia the best and Onida the worst. It is my choice and my comfort.

Technically ONIDA may be the best.But I found Nokia is the best.

Please...Please do not tell me I must use only Onida.

I cannot accept it and I have to reject with contempt.

ALSO IT IS MY FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT.

VIJAYA LAXMANAN
MAVELIKKARA, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
267
Arul:>>"it is only dalits or tribal people converting that seems to enrage everybody."

The conflagration in orissa, on the conv issue, is mainly betw dalits and tribals only. The swami whose murder started the issue was himself a dalit. The crypto-chr obcs and moslem maoists seem to have atarted it, by arranging the mmuder, mainly to give india a human-rights' bad name, internationally, to stop the nuke deal for india, in vienna or washington. The leafleteering against hindu gods, in ktka and TN, was also for same reason perhaps. The attempt has failed. The deal has gone thro. The waves will, of course, take some time to die down.

>>"which is strange given how little attention they get otherwise"

No longer true that dalits, tribes get 'little attention' in hindu india, these days. The CM in the biggest state is a dalit lady. There are tribal leaders in chattisghar and ranchi. The tribals of rajahsthan have got 'scheduled status' recently, after agitations. The crypto-chr in TN have got recently got the 3.5% minority reserv, given for them, revoked, ensuring that a major part of the reservations for all castes for themselves, as FC, OBC, BC and SC/ST. Very soon, crypto-christism may become the majority component of the socalled hinduism in india!

But, then, casteism among crypto-chr is more painful in organized chr religion, with separate seats, burial grounds and even separate churches, worse than in hinduism itself. Then, reversions will become the order of the day!

My personal view is that, by then, it will be recognized widely that jesus=skanda, mary=gauree, and chr is only a part of hinduism in polymorphic monothestic format, with jesus and mary as additional ishtadevataa deities.

Finally, The hindus and christians and jews, also the other indic religions, may all have to fight for survival, together, only against exponentially exploding population bomb of the moslems, all over the world.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
266
Its a complete BS. Every god one believe in will give the same feeling. Believing in jESUs is no different. Write is trying to justfy his change of religion witout any hard evidence. You converted be happy with it. Is there any one whoe cares. You are just misusing outlook space. If you would not be part of OUtlook nobody would give any space to your BS.
a
Los angeles, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
265
i am waiting for a movie from bollywood on the life of jesus. no i am not being facetious. i just saw "benhur" and the scenes with jesus in it are so moving, an antithesis to the brutality of the roman empire and the kind of ambition it appeals to. of course jesus would have to be a kashmiri. azad. azadi. the roman empire would of course be delhi. there would be evil people trying to coopt and manipulate and possibily get him committed by saying his visions are psychoses. he would be pumped full of drugs. poor thing. i saw "jesus of montreal" and it was so poignant. satan will appear and say "only include these phrases about the glory of india and the hope that it offers and we will give you all this" to which he of course will say "get thee behind me satan" and refuse. he will say to the kashmiris "the kingdom of god that i offer you is not a ..." something something something. rekha would have to be in it. maybe as mary magdalene. or else kareena, playing salome to john the baptist played by somebody angry and bitter. and jesus. well, i don't know. it would have to be played by someone very tragic and suffering and soulful. like that young kid who was in that jaane tu movie recently. and someone with a capacity for tragedy would have to direct. the man who did devdas. but he likes fabric too much. well, he can have that big ripping of the curtain scene at the crucifixion. that should satisfy him. judas? somebody tormented and self divided. who was the man who made "maqbool" - that was very tragic. he could do it.
Arul Francis
Clayton, California
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
264
According to a write up a few months back, in the 'Catholic Reporter' a respectable Christian organ ,in China, ten thousand persons get converted to Christianity every day-to all 'types' of Christianity. It was claimed that by the end of C.E 2040 the largest component of Chinese Chinese population would be Christians-about 40 percent and also the future crusaders of Christianity.But against whom? The answer we find in another report which claims that in 'Christian Europe' five hundred people take to Islam daily.Obviously, the future crusades are going to be between Chinese Christians and West European Muslims. Unless people like Anand speed up the conversion rate to Christianity in India the future of Christianity is going to be bleak given the fact that muslims will remain always muslims.
c p narendran
nagpur, india
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
263
It is an interesting read. A few thoughts that do cross my mind on the issue, though....isn't it so weird that we all feel so close to a religion because of the language we use. English has become such a deep-rooted language of communication within us so-called "upper-middle class, educated, economically well placed" Hindus that we are losing our touch with our own religion. We feel closer to Christianity because we can understand the prayers!! We are quite comfortable with renouncing our prayers / rituals just because we do not understand the words! I shudder to say it...but in a sense I am seeing the argument that many of the hardliners make in terms of popularising our native languages.Not that I accept their means of propagating it, but somewhere I do believe that our very existence as Hindus is being severely hapmered because we are moving away from our native languages. My wife is a Tamil Brahmin, nad am sure she will connect with your experiences of life with your grandpa in your younger days. However, at home, today we all converse in English - me, my wife and 2 sons. How can I explain to my young sons what the shlokas mean when I myself do not understand them? How can I expect them to relate to it, when they go to a Catholic school for their education and are in constant presence of Christianity? If they are being taught by Catholics, then how can their religion be bad or not something that they should be a part of?
I wonder if you would have felt the same way about Jesus Christ or Christianity if they were praying in Latin or Italian.
Radhesh
Mumbai, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
262
ARUL FRANCIS:

I fully agree with you on your comments to Anand Mahaadevan. Those who convert to christianity, in despise for hinduism, should change their names to clearly christian type, like yours, with complete transparency on one's religion. I have, and have had, many christian friends with clearly chr names, devout for jesus, but non-hating of other religions. The crypto-converts like mahaadevan, who claim closeness to christ, cannot be really so, since they are clearly despisive of the tribals, dalits etc. as dimwitted and poor, while the christ he claims to worship has clearly said:" blessed are the poor, theirs the kingdom of heaven!' .
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
261
faruki

it seems that all your opponents come from the gutter.

is it the same as what islam teaches. all unbelievers will face the fires of hell.

stop this type of distasteful tirades,

you need a dose of the dalai lamas tolerance and good humour.maybe you are too self rightous.

share a bottle of good wine with a sweet woman,and get laid.it may help.

and you will like both, no matter what.

same idea for ganjaboy, and all the awakened
converts.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
260
24/10/08

"oh I don't understand why Hindus within India are so upset about people who convert. after all, they have.........."

"as in the first milleniuum the Cross was planted on the soil of Wurope and in the second of the America and Africa, we can pray that in the third Christian milenium, a great harvest of faith will be reaped in this vast and vital continent" declared the Pope during his Indian vist. He further added in the Conference of Bishops:" the heart of the Church in Asia will be restless untill the whole Asia finds its rest in the peace of Christ, the Risen Lord"

The aim is the destruction of Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism; the local religions. This is unacceptable and will be resisted. Your comparison of Indian immigrants in the West is erroneous; they have gone there to work and they do no convert the local population to Hinduism.

Further as I commented elsewhere, these missionaries are urgently required in Europe and in the West, where the Church attendance has become very thin and where the Judeo Christian civilisation is being destroyed by Islamic aggression. Itis a matter of debate whether Londonistan and Eurabia will come into being in 2020 or 2050. Their presence in India is superfluous.
Proud Hindu
Los Angeles, United States
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
259
anand mahadevan says "i am not a tribal, poor or dim-witted". yikes! anand! bite that tongue! why is it that in your "intensely intimate relationship" with jesus you have still not been cured of your class snobbery?!? jesus was the son of a carpenter whose disciples included a fisherman and an ex-prostitute. anyway, this business about keeping your "cultural identity as a hindu" and keeping only hindu names so as to "pass", it's not a good idea, believe me. later on you or your children will pay big bills to therapists to compensate for all that submerging. it will come out in weird twisted ways. I suggest you change your name to Jesus, and tell people it's pronounced with a 'H' sound, as in "Hay soos". that way when you come to the states people won't know whether you're indian or mexican and you can pass again. Half of the fun is a brand new identity.

and why are you saying silly things like "'Rock on' is terrific mate" - your taste in hindi films is appalling. I pray to the good lord that you will at least learn to distinguish between mediocre and good hindi movies. Your homework is to watch mughal-e-azam, pakeezah, and umrao jaan (the rekha version) every weekend till easter and after that you will truly experience a conversion in your hindi movie tastes.
Arul Francis
Clayton, California
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
258
oh I don't understand why Hindus within India are so upset about people who convert. after all, they have no problem emigrating, taking up citizenship in america or australia or britain, and still considering themselves very much indian. their children may not even speak an indian language. so if you can do all that and still not have betrayed your indian-ness, then why is someone converting considered such an act of betrayal?

also, i want to point out, that when brahmins convert to christianity, they are treated very sympathetically and respectfully. there is that whole Saint Mary's Thope place in TN, for example. it is only dalits or tribal people converting that seems to enrage everybody. which is strange given how little attention they get otherwise.
Arul Francis
Clayton, California
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
257
This article is very meaningful but focusses on a single aspect-an emotionally vulnerable person hangs on to the first available support.
The comments give a lot to think.

My take however, is slightly different:

Conversion to Hinduism is not possible, since Hinduism is simply a framework of accomodation where multiple viewpoints and lifestyles could find relatively uncritical acceptance and maybe inclusion as a valid alternate viewpoint of the eternal reality.

Conversion to Hindutva is possible for it is a sect.
Let us look at the other angle also. In a world full of sects like Christianity and Islam and if I may add Communism, the Indic civilisation is facing a crisis of survival as it is threatened to be subsumed by the larger number, more immediate, sophisticated, organised and emotional appeal and greater fiscal strenght of these sects. The effort to 'consume' is real and vocally articulated by the leaders of these sects. The method involves completely overwhelming the 'targets'-enticement, ridicule, threat, coercion, convincing-the works. The 'method' has seen many successes through history at different times and places, hence is a tried and tested 'management of conversion'.

There are many ills of Indic religions -so are of the Abrahmaic-neither is perfect-however, the development is suited to the environment and genius-each can answer and solve the concerns with which they are approached by followers and each can and should use alternate views to reform. Tragedy is that the accomodative framework of Hindu has become combative sect Hindutva in this fight. But, Did it have a real choice? Can anybody answer?
Atul Chandra
mUMBAI, INDIA
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
256
"But this opinion has indeed given me a new vision of my faith in Christ and a sense of joy that there are individuals who have understood Christ and the Christian mission in the right sense." Rev. T.M.

The Christian "mission", unfortunately, was so dissociated from Christ and His teachings that Christ and Christianity parted ways, centuries ago. Why this "Conversion" business? Would Christ have asked some one to "convert"? Into what? Into compassion and wisdom?

Aren'e we responsible for our actions? How can our sins be washed away by prayers? Isn't the Law of Causality relevant? As you sow, so you reap?

Weren't the early Christians preaching the (Buddhist) Way? Didn't Christ live in India and Tibet, for decades?
hindu
Varanasi, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
255
>> those who can't handle criticism can always retire to a forest...

Not sure that is adequate. Missionaries have been known to hire mercenaries to gun down people even in forests.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
254
It was amazing to read a sincere opinion straight from the heart without any so called christianised jargons. Its wonderful to know that there are individuals who have been able to relate with Christ and have found the true joy of having Christ in their life. Fanaticism in any religion can breakdown its own system in the long run, but abiding by its true principles will enable us to build up qualitatively. The rising opression of christians in India did bring a sense of fear for me since i know tomorrow it can be me. But this opinion has indeed given me a new vision of my faith in Christ and a sense of joy that there are individuals who have understood Christ and the Christian mission in the right sense.
God bless India... Jai Hind...
Rev. Thomas K Mathew
Chengannur, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
253
"Religion is a poor man's opium"-Marx; "Most(semitic) religious doctrines are nothing but childish imaginations"-Einstein. "Institutionalised Religions are nothing but an political exercise to increase the number of their followers to strengthen their cause and also extract personal benefit out of it. The one page article of Anant Mahadevan has generated 43 pages of comments, most of them trying to glorify their own and vilify others . Time to ponder, whether religion actually bonds humans or breaks them apart! Also, the fatwas and social ostracization imposed by the priest class of major institutionalised religions have made a large number of their followers literally enslaved. I think the realisation of Paul from Hyderabad was more revealing than Anant Mahadevan.And Arun of New Delhi certainly has a point on the rivalry between many sects of Islam and Christianity((vide his comment on Oct 23 ) but is the absence of disputes amongst Hindus are due to its' free for all code of conduct or laissez affaire, as it suits one rather the priest class for their benefit. The only philosophy, I wouldn't say religion is free of all such rigmaroles and the most appealing to the modern minds is none other than Hianyana Buddhism, to which all from Marx to Einstein had all paid their obesience as the most rigteous way of living...
Shyamal Barua
kolkata, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
252
the dalai lama adressed about a 1000 people in
copenhagen. he started by saying that he did not
want to convert anyone. he made no promises-
but what he said about being decent and kind
was met with complete approval.

i dont think the lama is particularly religious.
he provided some simple wisdom to us all.i guess thats why we all liked him so much. LB

Christ and the Buddha are (were) Brothers who preached unconditional love and compassion. Let's learn from them and practise in our daily lives what they had preached. Conversion is always, per force, INTERNAL-never EXTERNAL. That one could convert otrhers is pure idiocy-but we can show the WAY through PRACTICE, and PRACTICEONLY

hindu
Varanasi, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
251
hard facts - you define the mortal, you do not define the divine.

but then i understands you can only comprehand the narrow and petty defintions
Ajay
Troy, usa
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
250
europe is chock filled with good guys, doing something useful or something which is fun.

some of the real good groups doing some real good are my favourite charity-
medicines sans frontiers.

they work for the most poor and down and out people, in the most god forsaken places .

they dont try and ask people to change their views. decent people seldom do this.

then there is oxfam, amnesty, green peace.

there are groups in denmark which help rape victims.

i feel doing something like this is wonderful.

religious people are pretty ego centric. looking
for salvation, nirvana or heaven. neither of these are a sure thing.

the dalai lama adressed about a 1000 people in
copenhagen. he started by saying that he did not
want to convert anyone. he made no promises-
but what he said about being decent and kind
was met with complete approval.

i dont think the lama is particularly religious.
he provided some simple wisdom to us all.i guess thats why we all liked him so much.



lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
249
>>What's more, just because conversion *can* happen because of a genuine change of heart *doesn't* mean that *all* conversions happen the same way!

But you bear the burden of proof of specific cases with clear evidence and circumstances....theoretical possibility means nothing.

>>I don't see what cause this article serves other than a vain (and in my opinion, quite stupid) way to show that conversions are benign.

It serves to advance an otherwise sterile public debate where one side claims that ALL conversions happen ONLY with poor, uneducated and unsophisticated persons. They are shown to be wrong.

>>It is not conversions per se that anyone has problems with.

To paraphrase Shakespeare, bullshit by any other name is still bullshit.

>>It is the social problems that often arise that people object to. Why are non-Christians victimized in the North-East?

For same reason, they can argue, christians are victimized everywhere else...

>>If you can make people embrace another religion by a simple prayer, what is the need to sling mud on other religions in the process, as they do routinely in the South and in Orissa?

criticism isn't slinging mud; those who can't handle criticism can always retire to a forest...

>>This is what people don't like.

let me put it delicately...tough shit?

>>I am sure many Christians would agree with me.

Isn't that nice!
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 24, 2008 12:00 AM
248
Iqbalz writes:

>>Any encyclopaedia worth the name would tell you the polytheistic Greeks made infinitely greater contributions to laying the foundations of science than the Jews.

Jews predate greeks. The amount of scientific knowledge didn't change appreciably from pre-socratic philosophers like Thales to 15th and 16th century; a period well before enlightenment. Then there was an explosion of scientific knowledge because the shackles of Aristotle were broken; apriori reasoning wasn't enough but observation was also needed.

If your knowledge of history of science extend beyond comic books, I would be less bored.

>>The Jews have been prominent in science only since the nineteenth and Twentieth centuries, after the decline of the choking power of the synagogue and the church thanks to the Enlightenment and the French Revolution.

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