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National  / Cover Stories Magazine | Oct 06, 2008
Outlook-GfK Mode Opinion Poll
69% People In India Think Bajrang Dal Should Be Banned
Interviews conducted in Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta, Hyderabad, Lucknow with 516 respondents on September 23 and 24
Also In This Story   
biased indian state
Why is the Indian State quick to nail minority offences but myopic to Sangh transgressions?
Saba Naqvi
media bias
A naive, populist media leads the state in baying for terrorist blood
Saba Naqvi
opinion
For all our denial and bluster on Kashmir, the Indian state's secular narcissism may not survive a Modi on the throne
Pankaj Mishra
bajrang dal
Just who is a terrorist? Definitions change when it comes to the Hindutva extreme.
Smita Gupta
Outlook

Outlook-GfK Mode Opinion Poll
69% People In India Think Bajrang Dal Should Be Banned

Should the government impose a ban on Bajrang Dal?
  Yes No   DK/CS
  69 27  4 
Delhi 75
Bombay 64
Calcutta 81
Lucknow 85
Hyderabad 38
Hindu 65
Muslim  74
What was your reaction to the attacks on Christians and churches by Bajrang Dal?
Yes No
Unfortunate and unpardonable 86 14
Necessary due to forced conversions 61 39
Threat to India's secular reputation 84 16
Why do you think the central government is soft on militant Hindu groups?
Yes No
Political agenda and lack of will 81 19
There is a fear of backlash 68 32
Majority of police is communal 55 45
Has the government taken necessary action against the fundamentalist forces?
Yes No
23 77
Delhi 27
Bombay 21
Calcutta 12
Lucknow 21
Hyderabad 35
Can the activities of the BD, such as bomb-making, be called terrorist activities?
Yes No DK/CS
70 27 3
Delhi 76
Bombay 80
Calcutta 73
Lucknow 84
Lucknow 35
Most of the terror/blast suspects are Muslims. Why do you think this is so?
  Hindu Muslim
They are easy targets 61 60  64 
Lack of education, economic backwardness 71 73 67
Strong influence of terrorist groups  73  78 65
Bitter experience of communal violence  63  65 61
Is growing economic divide causing communal  disharmony?
Yes No
79 21
Delhi 71
Bombay 91
Calcutta 75
Lucknow 74
Hyderabad 86
Hindu  82
Muslim  76
How would you rate the media coverage of the issues and problems of the minorities or the poor?
Adequate 44
Poor 38
Too much coverage 18
Do you think the media sensationalises terrorism - related news?
Yes 74
No 26
Why do you think the media sensationalises terrorism?
Yes No
It is easy to sensationalise terror 68 32
They are simply doing their job 76 24
The readers too like sensationalised news 74 26
All figures in percentage
Methodology: Research Organisation GfK Mode conducted the survey in five cities namely Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta, Lucknow and Hyderabad on September 23 and 24 to understand public sentiment on the recent attacks on minority groups. In all 516 interviews were conducted, broken up into 299 Hindu and 217 Muslim respondents.
Also In This Story   
biased indian state
Why is the Indian State quick to nail minority offences but myopic to Sangh transgressions?
Saba Naqvi
media bias
A naive, populist media leads the state in baying for terrorist blood
Saba Naqvi
opinion
For all our denial and bluster on Kashmir, the Indian state's secular narcissism may not survive a Modi on the throne
Pankaj Mishra
bajrang dal
Just who is a terrorist? Definitions change when it comes to the Hindutva extreme.
Smita Gupta
Filed In Topics: 
More In: National, Cover Stories
 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
117
>> as opposed to Karunanidhi’s support for Ravana because he is lower caste???

>>Wasn't Ravana a Brahmin?

Going strictly by caste hierarchy, Ram’s caste was lower than Ravana’s. But that doesn’t stop people who claim to stand for “liberal/humanist values” from justifying attacks on Hindu beliefs by brining in bogus caste excuses!
RSM
Delhi, India
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
116
>>If one were to take his advice one would soon be the master of his language, Chimplish.

or else end up being master of manglish...
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
115
Seshadri,

>> Humility is part of humanity itself.

It is not a part of you.

>> All 'beliefs' of others cannot be 'tolerated' simply bec they are 'belliefs'.

Thank you for admitting that you are an intolerant old fool.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
114
AP:>>"Please learn some humility."

Only the arrogant try to 'teach' humility to others. Humility is part of humanity itself.

>>"Please be less hateful and less intolerant of the beliefs of others."

All 'beliefs' of others cannot be 'tolerated' simply bec they are 'belliefs'. The cannibals of rasaatala [africa] believed they were entitled to eat humans also, just as moslems now believe that animals have been 'created' by allah, only for being eaten by humans. Would you just 'respect' the cannibal on his 'belief' and offer your kid for him to cook and eat?
One man's belief should not become another's doom, for such beliefs to be spiritually accepted..
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
113
Seshadri,

>> Do not equate prophets like mohammed and saints like paul, francis etc. with avtars of segments of the Absolute, like ram, krishn, buddha, Sankara, jesus and rama-kr paramahamsa.

You are not just a hateful bigot, but a despicable idiot as well. Such arrogance and pride will never be seen in a truly religious person, nor in any mature person.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
112
AP:>>"Religious figures in all religions, including Mohammed, Rama and Jesus"

Do not equate prophets like mohammed and saints like paul, francis etc. with avtars of segments of the Absolute, like ram, krishn, buddha, Sankara, jesus and rama-kr paramahamsa, marking the dawn of the forward tretaa-yuga..
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
111
Seshadri,

>> powerful minds may also extend their subconscious spheres to create a mind-net, like the rishis yore.

Please learn some humility.

>> make another mohammed out of myself, seeking prophethood and mad followers to call me the really last prophet.

Please be less hateful and less intolerant of the beliefs of others.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
110
AP:>>"If you believe you are a prophet"

The world is moving from intra-net to inter-net to the mind-tra-net of nano-tech whereby thoughts in the human mind can control gadgets around also. Simultaneously, powerful minds may also extend their subconscious spheres to create a mind-net, like the rishis yore, whereby overall human mentality could be brought into greater harmony with itself and in tune with the Absolute Will also. This will become a pre-requesite for human self-discipline in the forthcoming space age for mankind. Dont try to indicate that I want to try to make another mohammed out of myself, seeking prophethood and mad followers to call me the really last prophet.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
109
Seshadri,

>> your 'prophet', mohammed as 'messenger', sitting in a cave, had phone connection to God via gabriel.

If you believe you are a prophet, you should say so openly. Religious figures in all religions, including Mohammed, Rama and Jesus are believed by their followers to have done extraordinary things. If you want to compare yourself to them, say so openly.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
108
AP:>>"He and you must have a direct phone connection to God!"

You do believe that your 'prophet', mohammed as 'messenger', sitting in a cave, had phone connection to God via gabriel. Only, you think, the connection got broken, the day nabhi died, leaving him as the last prophet, your prime belief, even more important than the existence of GOD.

Well, the spiritual truth is that GOD is available for spiritual contact for all humans when their minds are fully cleansed of ego, the divinity-concealer, eeSam gopayati iti 'ego'.
Word 'prophet' sanskritizes as 'prabhaata-ka', meaning 'maker of new dawn'. God is willing and eager to make 'each human his own prophet', give each a new dawn, for appropriately accelerated progress both materially and spiritually. Those with meditative habits will certify to the truth of the above statement.


v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
107


AUGUSTUS AAA advises with his cutomary pomposity:

"Next time, use parallel sentence structure. Thinking/understanding or think/understand."

Heh heh heh !!!!

Nothing could be more comical than Augustus Chimp-Ganjaboy taking time off from urinating on the chimp enclosure fence at Wonderville Zoo to give people lessons in English syntax !

If one were to take his advice one would soon be the master of his language, Chimplish.

Iqbal Z
Pune, India
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
106
ANWAR PATEL:

Lalit's advice to you Jislamists:

"Women and men should take to sports, activities like......trekking, dance
theatre"

"Get cool man. Throw away your greasy skull cap,
and tell your begum to chuck of her burqa. You
will see the change immediately."

Follow the advice, Anwar ! A great chance for you and your begum.

You and your CAIR pals should be dropped 400 miles away from the nearest settlement in some desert and made to trek back on foot. This will clear your mind of jehadi hate.
Iqbal Z
Pune, India
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
105
>>You neither think nor have understanding - just a low, apish, cussed anti-Hindu bias.

yet, Iq no ballz can't pass up an opportunity to have his nether regions kicked.

Next time, use parallel sentence structure. Thinking/understanding or think/understand.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
104

AGUSTUS AAA:

An enquiry:

>>What makes you think that the protest of other groups (like on Danish cartoons or Da Vinci code) was not with moronic logic and on stupid grounds?

Your reply:

"what makes you think that you have a clue about what makes me think?"

You neither think nor have understanding - just a low, apish, cussed anti-Hindu bias.
Iqbal Z
Pune, India
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
103
faruki

if muslims were like me, then you guys would be
appreciated ,and all counties would welcome you.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
102
>>What makes you think that the protest of other groups (like on Danish cartoons or Da Vinci code) was not with moronic logic and on stupid grounds?

what makes you think that you have a clue about what makes me think?

Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
101
DC,

>> This is because what Kumar or Rajesh fails to emphasize is that religion is not associated with the rationale or logic it is related to faith and belief which is associated with human's non-rationale behavior. We must recognize that beliefs play as big a role as rationality in human behavior and rationality cannot replace belief and vice versa.

Precisely why I did not join in on that discussion.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
100
Seshadri,

>>>> AP:"You now sound like Rev. Pat Robertson!"
>> Does he also say:'God = Christ = Alla = Siva' ?

He said 9/11, Katrina etc were God's punishments for the sins of the Americans e.g. homosexuality, abortions etc etc. He and you must have a direct phone connection to God!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
99
Lalit,

>> Muslims should be wise and not reactionary.

It is true that many Muslims are as idiotic as yourself. Any attempt at deeper understanding of issues and trends is just too much work!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
98
>> Point is - who he represented.

All I did was ask a simple question since the statement said something different than what I knew about the subject. Your hate filled mind couldn't resist going on a rant against Brahmins. What you lack in logic, which is considerable, you make it up in hate.

As for voting, Brahmins and Baniyas would vote for an OBC Modi anytime.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
97
Although I accept the rationale that all religions must learn to accept criticism and no religion is so fragile as to withstand criticism, I still would like any administration to ban or withdraw anything that is perceived to hurt religious sentiment of people in general.
This is because what Kumar or Rajesh fails to emphasize is that religion is not associated with the rationale or logic it is related to faith and belief which is associated with human's non-rationale behavior. We must recognize that beliefs play as big a role as rationality in human behavior and rationality cannot replace belief and vice versa. Our political association or our religious association is a part of our individual beliefs. You can be apolitical with no interest in choosing sides or an atheist to disbelieve god or any religion. But you should be senible enough to understand that there will be a large mass of people who believe in god, believe in partcular religion and believe in particular political ideology.
Once we know this we must learn to respect beliefs of others and can tread a path that does not hurt anyone. I find Danish cartoons objectionable because it is deliberately aimed at ridiculing someone who is revered as a prophet by millions. As a Hindu I may personally disregard if someone makes insensitive comments on Hindu Gods, but I will never let that happen in the social space and ban such comments because such comments offend millions of believers in the society. And I am in for banning activities that are aimed at deliberately maligning Jesus Christ who is worshipped by millions.
I strongly advocate liberty and free will but I equally advocate that liberty is not license. If we all start exercizing our own freedom of expression without having concern for the others it will create chaos. So if we do not voluntarily curb our freedom of expression let the law and order authorities decide where to put a stop. Let a part of individual liberty be sacrificed to protect the liberty of peaceful co-existence of all individuals in the society as a whole.

This is not the politics of BJP versus the secularists. This is something to do with using the same yardstick to measure everyone. If you want to ban Satanic verses and screening of Da Vinci code then you must ban literature published to malign Hindu Gods. If you say Ram is a mythical character and there is no godliness surrounding Ram, then say that Jesus was also a mythical charater without historical relevance and was never resurrected and say that Muhammad was simply an Arab Warlord who lied to everyone that he had memorized words from Allah.
If you do not allow Sikhs to wear turbans and Muslim women to wear headscarf in public places then you ban Christians wearing a cross.
As an administration either you engage with all religions or disengage from all religions. Don't pick and choose religious affiliations or dis-affiliations based on minority votebank politics in the garb of secularism.
DC
NEW YORK, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
96
AP:>>"You now sound like Rev. Pat Robertson!"

Does he also say:'God = Christ = Alla = Siva' ?
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
95
Its funny that this commie newspaper is showing its opinion as ppl's view when we don't see 69% of the Indian ppl showing up for something as important as a general election.

it beats my mind why the opinion of a select few would be construed as the opinion of India.
ashok krihnamoorthy
columbia, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
94
>> "Wasn't Ravana a Brahmin?"

Point is - who he represented.
OBCs would vote for Thakur V.P.Singh anytime. Unlike brahmanical mindset, bloodline is unimportant here. Deed is. OBCs know that no OBC leader can match his accomplishment.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
93
"Wasn't Ravana a Brahmin?"

Yes. He was.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
92
>> Just an affidavit, a one off case which is immediately corrected/withdrawn. Not a big issue.

Maybe, not for you. It might be a big issue for some one else. Who are you to decide that on someone's behalf?

As for withdrawn, it was followed by another gem, about Rama having destroyed the bridge himself.

If you still believe that the succu crowd is "supportive of maintaining religious sentiments of people", you are just blind and stupid. The only arguments you make are to repeat such meaningless statements, which are not grounded in facts, again and again.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
91
>> as opposed to Karunanidhi’s support for Ravana because he is lower caste???

Wasn't Ravana a Brahmin?
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
90
>>(it is politcs at play here - with political promotion of Ram by BJP seen as an upper catse ploy, as Ram is an upper caste and so on).

Do you manufacture these gems or are they borrowed? Opposition to Ram because he is upper cast as opposed to Karunanidhi’s support for Ravana because he is lower caste???
RSM
Delhi, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
89
Rajesh:>>"Many Hindus, good people, take Hinduism in same way. Any criticism of God is unacceptable. But there are other Hindus who think unravelling of Hindu religion is not only legitimate but required."

Yes, you are right. Self-criticism is important for the self-cleaning and longivity of an eternal religion. Even during krishna's life there was an asuric opponent calling himself vaasudeva, eventually killed by krishna. Buddha was only an avtar of vishnu to cleanse hinduism of the evils of karmakannda brahminic ritualism.
Sankara reintegrated vedanta with buddheism. Jayadeva recognized buddha as gjnaana-avtar of vishnu. No wonder ambetkar became only a buddheist in opposition to dalit-oppression, by OBCs, under post-moghul hinduism, since buddheism is only caste-free hinduism. He did not convert to christianity, since, for the churchians, hindu gods and their avtars are only pagan myths based on superstition.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
88
Faruki and other dodos.

There is an article in Times of India,by Ishtiaq
Danish-

His main point.

Muslims should be wise and not reactionary.

Thats what I have said a thousand times.

Ignore the sanghis, BJP ,Parivar and march ahead.
I have never allowed my feelings of anger deflect me in my task.

Muslims should concentrate on building a strong middle class of modern, westernised people.
Women and men should take to sports, activities like improveing improvement, trekking, dance
theatre .

Dont follow the stone age edicts of the koran.

Get cool man. Throw away your greasy skull cap,
and tell your begum to chuck of her burqa. You
will see the change immediately.

Muslims should be discouraged to be under the shadow of Islam, There is a whole, spectacular world outside it.

This advice is given to all, pastors, mullahs and
pandas.faruki, kumar, ganjaboy,and vijay aggarwal.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
87
>>the issue is about the actual provocation/indoctrination/indulgence of violence/riots etc.

No . the issue is selfserving denial and refusal to face facts, which are staring in face.

KAshmiri pandits were killed , raped , maimed and kicked out by Islamists , when BJP was just a 2 MP party.

Islamic Jehad is a global phenomenon and it is killing innocents everywhere. Is BJP responsible for that as well ? Your hatred for BJP is surely clouding your judgement.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
86
>>From the BJP, we have an example in Arun Shourie, but religious criticism is not an issue)

So you accept that BJP leaders have not ridiculed beliefs of minorities , like the leaders of UPA have done.

Where has shourie ridiculed minorities? any proof ?Which minority belief has he ridiculed ?

We are certainly not talking of religious criticism, but wilful slander against beliefs of someone., as done by karunanidhi for example.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
85
>>Is there any religious practice/tradition/culture that you are prohibited from doing?

True for all minorities in India as well. But the difference is it is only the beliefs of hindus which are ridiculed .

Link me to just one article ridiculing christians for deciding on the latest saint from kerala.

Comparer this with outright mockery of hindus by the secular media.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
84
faruki

the point is that you dont say anything, realiseing it will make no difference.

ultimately all others are doing the same.

everyones patience has run out. if you cant see
this then you are liveing in another world.

advice.

stop moraliseing, stop nit picking, and simply do what ever you can for your communities self interest.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
83
>> ..insances where hindu beliefs are rubbished and ridiculed in India ..

I am not saying that there is no religious criticism of hinduism by different writers. There is quite a lot. But there is also freedom of religion/tradition/culture. Is there any religious practice/tradition/culture that you are prohibited from doing? As for criticism of religious doctrines etc, all religions face them in some form or the other.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
82
>> How about statements like just a cartoon or just a book or just a movie , when muslims say they are hurt? Obviously you will never say not a big issue when it comes to non hindus.

The Cartoons, books etc are not big issues. The protests are over-reaction (in my view), but peaceful protests are allowed and fine. The violence/vandalism is condemnable.

>> Link me to one statement by a senior BJP leader which ridicules belief of non hindus..

The problematic aspect of BJP/RSS/VHP is not raising religious issues/question (which many other writers do and it is fine. From the BJP, we have an example in Arun Shourie, but religious criticism is not an issue) - the issue is about the actual provocation/indoctrination/indulgence of violence/riots etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
81
faruki

stop moraliseing and look at hard facts.

you are looking for a confrontation with the hard liners of the hindu community. you will
lose out just as hamas has lost in its fight against israel. you may win a few points in debate, but at a heavy price.

you seem to have learnt nothing from history of the last 20 years. the conflicts today are for
turf and self interest.

muslims are weak, and technologically backward.
israel has beaten the pants of them.

just accept reality. situation of muslims in india will get worse, with or without your
efforts.same as else where.

if you want to play the boy on the burning deck, good for you. dont expect any applause from me.
i have no time for stupid,naive and moraliseing
hypocrites.

you decieve yourself by believing that along with
your skills in english you also have a modern mind. its not so. your mindset belongs to the 17th century-the same for most muslims.

thats why all efforts to modernise islam have failed-and will continue to do so.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
80
>>> The minister who put a prize of 51 crores on danish cartoonists

Condemnable, but still rhetoric.

How convenient ! here is a minister who is putting a price on a foriegn nationals head in a public meeting and he continues to be a minister.
And that is just rhetoric and not lethal!!

Not like the true lethal/violent intent like the BJP/RSS/Sena etc.

WHy cant BJPs intent be rhetoric as well ? why dontthey get the benefit of doubt . like the muslimsg get ? Obviously you are too far gone in the cause of ummah to have a balanced view.

>> Violent protests have always been condemned.

Certainly not, when it was done by minorities. Shahbano case is an example. So is satanic verses.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
79
Lalit,

>> muslims are being slaughtered like lambs by americans.

What brilliant point are you trying to make?

Good night!

Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
78
>> Just an affidavit, a one off case which is immediately corrected/withdrawn. Not a big issue.

Just an affidavit ? That was the government of Indias official stance. Withdrwan AFTER the protests. How about statements like just a cartoon or just a book or just a movie , when muslims say they are hurt? Obviously you will never say not a big issue when it comes to non hindus.

>>Condemnable, but it is a stray political rheotic/comment (it is politcs at play here -

Amusing to see the level of your dhimmitude. Anything which punctures you theory that Hindu beliefs are not ridiculed in India , suddenly becomes a stray comment or rhetoric or politics.


>>The BJP/Hindutva guys do it all the time almost as a single point agenda.

Link me to one statement by a senior BJP leader which ridicules belief of non hindus., like the one saying rama is a drunkard.

I have given you enough proof of insances where hindu beliefs are rubbished and ridiculed in India , unlike minority beliefs.

If yo still want to live in denial , suit yourselves.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
77
faruki

muslims are being slaughtered like lambs by americans,

they kill more muslims in one year,then all of us would do in a thousand years.

you are sitting back, and enjoying yourself, safely holed up in albany new york.

you are a decietful character. from your safe hide out you utter hate and violence against the
majority community.

examples from the whole wide world should tell you,that its a failed strategy.

the proof is that modi won.

its guys like you get kicked on your ass.

i live in denmark, and am a loyal citizen.
unlike you.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
76
>> The Central government had no problem declaring Rama was a ficitional character

Just an affidavit, a one off case which is immediately corrected/withdrawn. Not a big issue.

>> another major politician called him a drunkard

Condemnable, but it is a stray political rheotic/comment (it is politcs at play here - with political promotion of Ram by BJP seen as an upper catse ploy, as Ram is an upper caste and so on).

>> Give me just one example of any similar uttereances on minority beliefs.

The BJP/Hindutva guys do it all the time almost as a single point agenda. But the problem is worse, because it is not just religious/political rhetotoic, but actual call indulgence in violence, riots etc

>> And who will decide which issue is deliberately chosen and which issue is genuine ?

Well, if you see, the "sentiments" chosen by BJP have to have a confrontational/provocative aspect to it with potential for riots/violence etc.

>> The minister who put a prize of 51 crores on danish cartoonists

Condemnable, but still rhetoric. Not like the true lethal/violent intent like the BJP/RSS/Sena etc.

>> To reiterate , the issue under discussion is violent protests by minorities, when they feel their faith is unde attack

Violent protests have always been condemned.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
75
Lalit,

>> its pay back time.

A bigot's wet dream!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
74
ganjaboy, kumar, faruki and others from opressed
minorities.

muslims have talked about the root cause theory,
christians have been denigrateing hindus for generations.

both minorities are now feeling the heat.

remember it is not the well off and highly educated hindus who are hitting back,. no its
poor hindu tribals, and others without much money in the bank.

its pay back time.now that the shoe is on the other foot, all are squealing like pigs on the
way to the slaughter house.

the arguments have always been, that muslims, christians have greviences and they have a god given right to express their anger, anyway they wish.

i am glad that in the larger scheme of things that the hindu back lash has arrived.now lets
see how far the secular politicians will go to further alienate the majority community.

as it happened in gujerat, the so called wooden
headed,and immoral secularist across the board will get a resounding thrashing.

minorities who behave in a grossly partisan way
will get paid in full.

hindus should behave decently but not be taken
for suckers. this has been the gross failings of hindus, and thats why india is today being effectively ruled by sonia a foreigner, mms her
munshi, whilst the other incompetent ministers shift files.

just take look at china. thats the ideal of the secularists. their behaviour towards all dissidents should be studied. we need to use a
bit of the medicine they have used-just for a change.

ultimately the strong are respected and the weak despised. hindus should send out this message.

peace , fairness yes- surrender and appeasement never.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
73
Seshadri,

>> God = Christ = Alla = Siva will deliver His justice in appropriate forms of earth-quakes and tsunamis, both geospherical and financial, as and when reqd.

You now sound like Rev. Pat Robertson!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
72
>>In general, Indian media/politicians etc are supportive of maintaining religious sentiments of people

As long as the religious feelings under question is of minorities . Majority feelings have no value.The Central government had no problem declaring Rama was a ficitional character and another major politician called him a drunkard. Give me just one example of any similar uttereances on minority beliefs.

>>(unless they are issues that are deliberately chosen to politically attack some community etc).

And who will decide which issue is deliberately chosen and which issue is genuine ? Dhimmtude again.

>>There are many who argued against a ban on the things you mentioned and the violence in the protests are widely condemned.

The minister who put a prize of 51 crores on danish cartoonists was not dismissed by mulayam, laloo employs osama look alike in elections, CPI M houned out taslima from kolkata..satanic verses was banned by congress.

But in general, in India, no one objects to a non-violent civilized appeal/protest on grounds of religious sentiments.

To reiterate , the issue under discussion is violent protests by minorities, when they feel their faith is unde attack. This is not condemned by succulars, unlike protests by hindus.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
71
Correction in my post: I wrote "I wasn’t me who said that"

I meant "It wasn’t me who said that"
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
70
LBMN,

>> Satanic verses, danish cartoons, shah bano , taslima nasreen , theo von gogh all questioned islamic beliefs and we know what the succular response was.

In general, Indian media/politicians etc are supportive of maintaining religious sentiments of people (unless they are issues that are deliberately chosen to politically attack some community etc). There are many who argued against a ban on the things you mentioned and the violence in the protests are widely condemned. But in general, in India, no one objects to a non-violent civilized appeal/protest on grounds of religious sentiments.
For example, if someone finds MF Hussains paintings objectionable, they can appeal for a ban on those paintings and wait for the considered judgment of the courts/legislature etc. The BJP's interest in the subject is due to the fact that the painter is a Muslim and hence an opportunity to make a point that Muslims in general insult/denigrate hindu gods etc and to gather attention, they have to vandalize and take law into own hands. It is not even a case of some 'spontaneous emotional outbust' due to hurt sentiments - it is a case of well calculated, selective and deliberate choice of specific issues with a political objective involving violence/riots etc to create a communal phobia.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
69
You did question beliefs of hindus few pages ago, saying anything short of nude painting of krishna is Ok with you ..

I wasn’t me who said that.

>> so calling him a rapist should not be a problem.

No. Anyone who says it shows not just a lack of sophisticated understanding of the philosophical issues involved, but is also being rude/uncivil (and may call for a legitimate legal action on the person). I have not seen any report saying that someone used the word 'rapist', but even if someone maverick wrote like that, it still that does not justify going on rioting/killing on a pretext that a person allegedly belonging to a certain community/caste/religion/race etc has written like that.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
68
>>Even if such a thing ever happened, it only means that the person in question is being rude/uncivil etc and may be eligible for action under law for harassment/nuisance etc, but that does not change the principle we are discussing.

WHy is it that similar pronciple do not apply to muslims or christians , when their beliefs are questioned?

Satanic verses, danish cartoons, shah bano , taslima nasreen , theo von gogh all questioned islamic beliefs and we know what the succular response was.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
67
KUMAR:>>"created/manufactured 'sentiments' like Babri Masjid demolition, that are deliberately chosen to contradict someone else' sentiment or belief etc to create a confrontation."

So, for you, baber destroying the ram temple to build a mosque there was only his islamic privilege as a conqueror over idolatry. Hindus had to suffer it thro mughal and brittish rules. After independance, if hindus want moslems to agree to replace the unused mosque by the earlier ram-lala temple, it is a created/manufactured sentiment deliberately to contradict someone else' [the moslems'] genuine sentiment, belief, that once a mosque built somewhere, place belongs to Allah permanently thereafter. But then, as per genuine sentimental history taught in madarsas in india and pak, respected by co-abrahamic churchians, india's genuine history starts only with Quasim crossing the sindh around 900 AD; ram, krishn or ashoka or vikram etc only myths in infidel minds of pagan hindus!

Well, you are welcome to your perceptions.
But God = Christ = Alla = Siva will deliver His justice in appropriate forms of earth-quakes and tsunamis, both geospherical and financial, as and when reqd..
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
66
>>I have not raised religious questions on any religion. I only talked about the nature of religions in general and its interface with the public domain etc...

Sorry . You did question beliefs of hindus few pages ago, saying anything short of nude painting of krishna is Ok with you , so calling him a rapist should not be a problem.

>>. In hinduism, it is specifically a hindutva phenomenon (with one difference that in hindutava, it is usually a created/manufactured 'sentiment' that is deliberately chosen to contradict a muslim sentiment to create a confrontation).

So if Muslims protest that is spontneous and so justified ? If hindus protest then it is manufactured by hindutva ! What dhimmy logic!

Excatly the kind of double standards I was referring to earlier.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
65
Seshadri, Kumar
>> meeting a devout lady entering a krishna temple and telling her that she is worshipping rapist, is not desirable
> "you have freedom of speech, but don’t call others a rapist".

Many Hindus, good people, take Hinduism in same way. Any criticism of God is unacceptable. But there are other Hindus who think unravelling of Hindu religion is not only legitimate but required. Dr Ambedkar called Hinduism a diabolic creed. Now, if some pious Hindus take it as sacrilegious and personal, so be it. They better grow up and learn to live in diverse environment.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
64
>> And resorting to violence/killings of innocents on such a pretext is a big no-no.

Agree

>> You know well that most of the "protests" that Hindutva groups initiate are created/manufactured 'sentiments' like Babri Masjid demolition

To begin with, it is extremely arrogant to believe that all such sentiments are created/manufactured. As if Hindus have no right to genuine sentiments or grievances.

Moreover, even if these are manufactured for political gains, there is nothing wrong in it.

>> All legitimate/genuine sentiments of the traditional/devout kind, the Congress and all other parties are more than willing to accept/concede.

Anyone with concede that. That is the easy part. Challenge comes when there is a confrontation. In such cases, the seculars always expect minorities to have the "first claim", and Hindus to back off (like recently in Amarnath). If you have any examples of instances where, in the event of a confrontation, Hindu sentiments have been given precedence at the cost of minority sentiments by the succu crowd, please post.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
63
AAAA:>>"Hindus protest with moronic logic and on stupid grounds."

bec they are pagans, after all!.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
62
Al Bundy,

>> And all religious groups protest.

This is what I wrote to LBMN on the same point: "The best case scenario is to handle these cases by producing a counter critique. There can be cases where some groups want to democratically protest and appeal for a ban etc (without resorting to violence, killing innocents etc), which is acceptable. … But overall, the level of criticism that one can face is the measure of levels of tolerance/maturity etc. … We should seek to increase the levels of tolerance/maturity, learn proper responses to criticism etc. And resorting to violence/killings of innocents on such a pretext is a big no-no."

>> The seculars wake up only when Hindus protest. In other instances, they join the protests.

You know well that most of the "protests" that Hindutva groups initiate are created/manufactured 'sentiments' like Babri Masjid demolition, that are deliberately chosen to contradict someone else' sentiment or belief etc to create a confrontation. All legitimate/genuine sentiments of the traditional/devout kind, the Congress and all other parties are more than willing to accept/concede. Many examples can be given of that.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
61
Seshadri,

>> meeting a devout lady entering a krishna temple and telling her that she is worshipping rapist, is not desirable

The point of debate is this: Whether it is ok or good to have a free exchange of ideas, proclamation of beliefs etc and have the freedom to freely accept/reject/ignore or be neutral about any religious doctrines/beliefs. The answer is yes. Now, what is a sensible/civil way of doing it is a different issue altogether. Do you know of anyone "meeting a devout lady entering a krishna temple and telling her that she is worshipping rapist"? Even if such a thing ever happened, it only means that the person in question is being rude/uncivil etc and may be eligible for action under law for harassment/nuisance etc, but that does not change the principle we are discussing. What you are saying is like this - "you have freedom of speech, but don’t call others a rapist". Well, of course. When did I say that this is the way to exercise the freedom/rights.

>> They are also free to go about 'preaching', provided it is only telling good things about their faith, not bad things about others'.

Well, one can explain for example why he does not accept Muhammad as a prophet or why he thinks Jesus did not exist etc. Nothing wrong in that, though many have a opinion that such discussions needs to be avoided. But that is just an opinion.

>> .. jailed in coimbatore for asking the locals: 'you fools, why are you still remaining ignorant pagans, even after Jesus has arrived?'.Your freedom ends where my nose begins, is it not?

Everyone has a freedom to practice/choose/proclaim faith and nobody's nose begins there. And yes, one is allowed to use courts/law etc if there are odd cases of misuse of any freedom/right, harassment, nuisance etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
60
>> Because the Hindus protest with moronic logic and on stupid grounds.

No arguments there.

What makes you think that the protest of other groups (like on Danish cartoons or Da Vinci code) was not with moronic logic and on stupid grounds?

>> Take them one at a time, rover.

Sorry, didn't understand this.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
59
>>The seculars wake up only when Hindus protest.

Because the Hindus protest with moronic logic and on stupid grounds.

>>In other instances, they join the protests.

Take them one at a time, rover.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
58
Seshadri,

>> Moslems can believe nabhi as prophet, last one, etc. Others need not accept or reject it.

Someone who desires to be on the side of Truth/Goodness will necessarily want to know if there is any truth in the Islamic claim of Muhammad as the last prophet who gave the final message to humanity in Quran. Similarly anyone who sincerely believes in this Islamic claim will want to proclaim the same to others. To say that one "need not accept or reject it" is sheer escapism, because if the Islamic claim about Muhammad/Quran is true that it is the final and most comprehensive message of God, how can anyone who desires to know Truth/God simply ignore it and pretend as it he has not heard it (it is a different matter if one has really not heard about it).

>> Moslems also have to accept only that people of other religions will also get similar mercy and guidance ...

If a Muslim believes in Muhammad/Quran which denies for example, the Christian idea of Jesus as incarnation, then how can a Muslim say that about Christianity? The best they can say about Christianity or other religions is that they may contain some truth or they may even say that God will show mercy on all people based on their sincerity etc, but they will still contend that the most comprehensive/accurate/final truth is found in Quran. In fact this claim of being the most comprehensive/accurate etc is made by all religions for different reasons.

>> .. when any human mind soulfully and faithfully seeks mercy ..

Evidence of seeking mercy/truth/goodness etc is seen in one's openness in the pursuit. About Islam/Muhammad, you said that one "need not accept or reject it", meaning you simply want to ignore the message that claims to be the final/accurate message from God, even when accepting that there is nothing wrong is accepting Muhammad!
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
57
Kumar:>>"the basic right of a free religious exchange of ideas and the right of a person to freely accept/reject what they want"

Certainly there and desirable. Hold open debates inviting people of all faiths to come and participate. Vivekananda participated in a parliament of religions, in Chicago in 1897. Many westerners became his disciples into hinduism after that.

But then, meeting a devout lady entering a krishna temple and telling her that she is worshipping rapist, is not desirable. If someone meets you on the street and just tells you your mom is a prostitute, would you not slap him on his face straight-away?

>>"they are free not to "go about preaching"."

They are also free to go about 'preaching', provided it is only telling good things about their faith, not bad things about others'.
Even in TV advertisements, only the brand of the grinder advertsed is praised, not any other brand specifically despised; otherwise, there will be a civil suit. Anthony and four others from chennai school have been jailed in coimbatore for asking the locals: 'you fools, why are you still remaining ignorant pagans, even after Jesus has arrived?'. Your freedom ends where my nose begins, is it not?
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
56
>> Such things are written on all religions.

And all religious groups protest. The seculars wake up only when Hindus protest. In other instances, they join the protests.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
55
Kumar:>>"So, you are agreeing that is ok to reject the prophethood of Muhammad (which is the most important central belief of Islamic religion without which the religion does not exist).You are also agreeing that beliefs of all religions are all also not necessarily equally valid etc. But to explain why one does not agree to prophethood of Muhammad or some other religious doctrines/beliefs etc amounts to "hurting others"?

Religion is all primarily only about name and form of God. Prophet-concepts are only parts of accessory beliefs. Moslems can believe nabhi as prophet, last one, etc. Others need not accept or reject it. Hence, no question of one religion hurting another! What others have to accept is only that praying to Allah will deliver mercy and guidance to moslems. Moslems also have to accept only that people of other religions will also get similar mercy and guidance on praying to god-forms of their worship, with faith and humility. Thinking of nabhi as messenger may help AP intensify his prayer to Allah, you may think of your patron-saint, I might think of my guru and some mantras for the same prayer-intensification purpose, but the process is the same, spiritually.

Divinity is a universal power like gravity. If you open the shower, water falls down from overhead tank due to gravity, irrespective of where you are, your religion or the 'name' you give for water, neer or pani or whatever. Similarly, when any human mind soulfully and faithfully seeks mercy from the all-pervasive lord-power, benevolence and guidance will flow down into his/her life, irrespective of the name used for the deity or the form in front, to symbolize it, if any.

We had one Karachi Joseph who used to post a lot on these columns. I once indicated to him that 'Om hreem namah krishTaaya' will be a powerful mantra for invoking the grace of Jesus. In reply, he simply asked back whether I could meet him somewhere in USA!. No more postings from him. Perhaps, he is happily praying to Jesus with the mantra, getting peace and satisfaction, not matching the posts of rants and raves to outlook columns!




v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
54
Seshadri,

>> I did NOT say that all claims to prophethood and sainthood are equally valid, or that all dogmas or beliefs of all religions are all equally valid ... Let those who value rituals and beliefs carry on with them, without hurting others in the name of theirs

So, you are agreeing that is ok to reject the prophethood of Muhammad (which is the most important central belief of Islamic religion without which the religion does not exist). You are also agreeing that beliefs of all religions are all also not necessarily equally valid etc. But to explain why one does not agree to prophethood of Muhammad or some other religious doctrines/beliefs etc amounts to "hurting others"?

>> I combine the conversionist crusaders and jihadi invaders along with the 'highly intelligent people who are murderers, rapists and genociders' you are talking about.

If one believes that Muhammad is not a true prophet (if he is, one is obligated to agree with his claims as being the last prophet, Quran as the last/perfect source about God etc) and so one seeks to proclaim the reasons why one think so, what is wrong in that? How does that amount to rape/murder?

>> What I meant earlier was that that intelligence was necessary for valid persuasive conversions.
If the receiving side is not intelligent, dubious incentive-based conversions may take place..

You are free to condemn "dubious incentive-based conversions" if you think they take place or take your own measures etc, but that does not, in principle, prevent the basic right of a free religious exchange of ideas and the right of a person to freely accept/reject what they want (dubious grounds such as that they are not intelligent enough etc. does not change the principle)

>> In hinduism, .. they do not go about preaching a program for spirituality to others

That is their choice and they are free not to "go about preaching".
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
53
" all 516 interviews were conducted, broken up into 299 Hindu and 217 Muslim respondents"

YEah right. Hindus are 85 % and muslims roughly 14% of the population. But the sample has them almost 50-50.

Outlook is THE expert in opinion polls. 1999 opinion poll was one proof. 2002 Gujarat election was another proof. And now this.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
52
these people at outlook are just trying to get more readership by publishing and saying things that go against the grain the the current public opinion... and there are fools like us who read it also!
krish
coimbatore, india
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
51
so these 500 odd sample consists of whole of india eh??
krish
coimbatore, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
50
Kumar:

I only said that there is only one God behind all religions. That HE responds to all worships with humility and faith. I did NOT say that all claims to prophethood and sainthood are equally valid, or that all dogmas or beliefs of all religions are all equally valid. Despite some deficiencies in mohammed as prophet, sincere devotees of Allah attained spiritual fulfilment in their lives; same with sincere devotees of chr/mary despite priests selling forgiveness to confessors etc; or sincere devotees of hindu gods, despite caste discriminations, temple-non-entries for some castes, and so on. What I mean is that all religions converge to only one spiritual reality, but their conduct rituals and associated beliefs may differ enormously. Let those who value rituals and beliefs carry on with them, without hurting others in the name of theirs; but, eventually all souls will rise beyond rituals to find identity with the one absolute, when they are fully cleansed of their materialist associations.

>>"Religion has more do with desire for truthfulness/morality, desire to be on the side of what is True/Good etc than just "intelligence". There are many highly intelligent people who are murderers, rapists and genociders. On the other hand, someone who is humble and seeking to be on the side of truth/goodness may actually find God.

I fully agree with you. Only, I combine the conversionist crusaders and jihadi invaders along with the 'highly intelligent people who are murderers, rapists and genociders' you are talking about.

What I meant earlier was that that intelligence was necessary for valid persuasive conversions.
If the receiving side is not intelligent, dubious incentive-based conversions may take place, which may not only not please God, but may even infuriate Him. All souls belong to Him only. He would like them be left free to evolve at their own pace. In hinduism, gurus give spiritual guidance only to those who come and ssk for it; they do not go about preaching a program for spirituality to others. Other religions are more pro-active, but should not go beyond suggestiive advances to incentive enforcements, since the latter violates the basic humility reqmnt of any religion before God.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
49
Ganesan:>>"was the Thuglak info good enough? Was it respectable enough to qualify as a reliable source?"

Quite so.



v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
48
Seshadri,

>> Atheists in america do not go about distributing pamphlets saying jesus is a myth to those who go into churches.

Even if they give also, it shouldn’t matter. It should not result in riots/killings etc.

>> Please understand there is only one God behind all religions. He appreciates all worship forms ..

Let us take an example. If the God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all the same, and all the prophets of these religions are all truly of God, then it effectively would mean that Islam is the religion to follow. If you accept that Muhammad is a true prophet og God, then you have to listen to what he says, namely that he is last of the prophets who gave the final scriptures (Quran). The reason Christianity does not accept Islam is because they do not accept Muhammad as a true prophet of God. One has a right to reject the prophethood of Muhammad (and hence reject Islam) and give the reasons why. Similarly, one has a right to have such an opinion of different religions and articulate the opinions and the reasons.

>> Persuation is welcome, it is open, non-deceitful, among equals in intelligence and resources.

Religion has more do with desire for truthfulness/morality, desire to be on the side of what is True/Good etc than just "intelligence". There are many highly intelligent people who are murderers, rapists and genociders. On the other hand, someone who is humble and seeking to be on the side of truth/goodness may actually find God.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
47
Rajesh:>>"Missionary schools are known for quality. Many, if not most, elite Hindus attended these schools. Advani recently admitted this."

True, in tha past tense. I myself studied in jesuit school in the nineeen-forties. But they did not try conversions, taught us general human morality, respect for all religions.

But, post-indepenance, votebank politics, reservation quotas etc. have alienated christians in india also. OBC-converts [like Rajesh demanding conv in gratitude!] operate the institutions with conversionist anti-hindu
anti-brahmin attitudes, conversion actively promoted, only chr are given permanent jobs, standards have decayed; hindu schools, colleges, IITs, IIMs have become the new standard-setters.

>>"Now it is height of ingratitude that same Hindus are engaged hate campaign."

Hindus educated under the followers of st Francis, though grateful for it, are only very unhappy to see these institutions turn parochial under the followers of st. Theresa. Look at St. Stephens!.

Gratitude actually still persists, to the disadv of the country's future. In a recent centenary mtg in a chr school in chennai, addressed by NRam & Arcot Nawab, MPs jayanthi natarajan, kanimozhi karunanidhi, many other crypto-chr hindus, were publicly indicating their loyalty to christendom in general and sonia-dom, in particular, supportive of the conversionists of orissa and ktka!.

>>"And they continue to send their children to missionary schools.

True, largely bbased on the earlier momentum. But, awakening is slowly happening! I was myself surprised when some of the young faculty in SSN told me that churchian conv is now happening in all college hostels, even in govt-run colleges!
Perhaps, it is the fury of Siva = Chist, which has hit the financial foundations of the christian west for the fault of churchianizing their funds in support of indescriminate conversions. Some dry-up of funds may now happen, saving hinduism for some future in india.
May God's will be done!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
46
LBMN,

>> Have YOU raised such questions on beliefs of non hindus ?

I have not raised religious questions on any religion. I only talked about the nature of religions in general and its interface with the public domain etc. I have talked several times about the Shariah/islamic rule etc as that is not just a religious issue, but comes under the public political domain.

>> But it looks like you have no problem with concept of islam khatrein mein , even on a cartoon. or on a book.

'islam khatrein mein' and other hyper-sensitive reactions are seen in Islam (or among muslims) much more than anyother. In hinduism, it is specifically a hindutva phenomenon (with one difference that in hindutava, it is usually a created/manufactured 'sentiment' that is deliberately chosen to contradict a muslim sentiment to create a confrontation).

>> Standing up for ones beliefs, without harming others , and protesting if insulted is not victimhood

Yes, the key phrase being "without harming others". And better still, if a religious/philosohical response is given (than just 'protesting').
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
45
"Then don't send your children to these schools"

That thought never occurred to me!
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
44
rajesh

talking about gratitude dont you christians, muslims owe anything at all to hindus and india.

dont christians study in schools , colleges and
universities started by hindus. dont you watch bollywood films, get treated in hospitals other then christian insitutions.

get real man.

in the last many years more and more private schools and colleges have come up. and christian
schools have not been paid for by you backwood natives. its european, and mostly british missionaries who get the credit for these.

dont ride piggy back on them.

lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
43
Kumar:>>"Why is it a problem if someone tries to persuade someone about a religion or a philosophy? Many Hindu organizations do that."

Persuation is welcome, it is open, non-deceitful, among equals in intelligence and resources. It actually leads to integration
of all religions at a higher spiritual level.
The followers of yogananda in california are equally devoted to krishna and christ.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
42
>> On a broader point, many christian schools run schools with the primary purpose of converting people. There is nothing shocking in this.

Then don't send your children to these schools.

Missionary schools are known for quality. Many, if not most, elite Hindus attended these schools. Advani recently admitted this. Now it is height of ingratitude that same Hindus are engaged hate campaign. And they continue to send their children to missionary schools.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
41
Kumar:>>"All religions should learn to face criticism in this day and age and learn how to respond at a religious/philosophical level"

Exactly. In USA, EU also, there are many intellectuals who question the historicity of christ. Many books written, read, replied by other intellectuals with scholarship and understanding. Atheists in america do not go about distributing pamphlets saying jesus is a myth to those who go into churches.

If churchians want real clarification on why gopicas fell in love with boy krishna, they should ask those who know the spiritual significance behind it. The bhagavata says the rishis of dandakaranya wanted ram to stay with them for them to love and worship him for years. But, he had to move down south to kill ravan, his life-mission. Hence, the devout rishis were re-born as gopikas in gokula to spend full ten yrs watching krishna grow, in full bhakti yoga, until he left for mathura to kill kamsa, as ten-yr old. They all attained mukti, when they died. Your pamphleteers are saying ten-yr old krishna raped gopicas, twice his age, and most of them married also!.

Please understand there is only one God behind all religions. He appreciates all worship forms, also changes if voluntary. But forced or induced changes, murders or jailing or conversion of other religionists is severely diapproved and punished by Him.

Hitler killed six lakhs jews in genocide. Double the number of christians died in the second world war.

Kashmiri moslems killed half-million hindu pandits. Double the mumber of kashmir moslems died in the P-o-K earthquake.

Churchians in TN manipulated JJ to have the kanchi aacharya jailed on Diwali ngt; tsunami next christmas mrg, washed away the velankanni temple.

As Lalit says, christians in US, EU, only pay tax for church maintenance, do not attend mass regularly. But they donate heavily to the churchians from kerala, south TN, to finance their conversion operations in orissa, ktka, northeast of india. Churchians and chr NRIs in US and the chr/mosl among the leftists in india tried maximally to stop the nuke-fuel deal for india. Ultimately, devine displeasure brought about the financial tsunami on the corporate banking world, dominated by the chr and mosl of the world. Now the american congress has just cleared india's nuke deal, along with bank-save deal together on one day! Both the chr and isl nations will now find it hard to finance the churchians and jislamists for their conversions and assaults on india's hindus for some time to come.

God is kind to those who worship Him with humility. He destroys those use His name for suppression of others. It is possible that, during the kali-yuga-dvaya, 2.4kyrs before Buddha, karma-kanDa Brahmins, power-hungry kshatriyas suppressed the vysyas, soodras and pancamas. The Islamic millennial assault on india killed the kshatriyas, empowered the soodras and pancamas, but dalitized the Brahmins! As you sow, so you reap!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
40
>>These things are raised by many people in this very forum itself.

Have YOU raised such questions on beliefs of non hindus ?

>>I do not understand this hyper-sensitivity of looking at everything as "picking on hindus', ‘insulting hindus’ etc.

But it looks like you have no problem with concept of islam khatrein mein , even on a cartoon. or on a book.

>>Looks like the BJP/RSS has succeeded in imbibing some sort of a victimhood in several people.

Standing up for ones beliefs, without harming others , and protesting if insulted is not victimhood. If is is good for muslims & christians , it is good for hindus as well.

Did the RSS ask muslims to issue fatwa on rushdie?
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
39
"This kind of allegation can be made on any school."

And anyone can make such syrupy statements.

BTW, was the Thuglak info good enough? Was it respectable enough to qualify as a reliable source?
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
38
>>>> If some one says that the hair preserved in the kashmiri mosque belongs to a pig & not to the prophet…

If someone makes such a claim, all that is need to respond is to ask if there is any evidence for claim that the critic is making. No need to get paranoid about it.

I will request you to start this revolution by releasing ads in all major news papers of India , proclaiming that hair in hazratbal belongs to Pig and there is no proof it belongs to prophet. It SHOULD contain yor name , address and contact details so that the believers can protest peacefully in front of your house/ office. I will sponsor the ad , if you want.

CAn you release such an ad ?
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
37
Ganesan,

>> On a broader point, many christian schools run schools with the primary purpose of converting people. There is nothing shocking in this

This kind of allegation can be made on any school. Even the entire government education system itself has been blamed for promoting pro-nehruvian ideology or saffronization etc. At the end of the day, one has to decide for himself/herself where to get educated and so on.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
36
LBMN,

>> The original question by you was whether there is any link confirming this incident. Hope that question is answered for you.

The initial comment said that the pamphlet talked about 'rapist krishna'. That is what I wanted to confirm. Thanks for the link about the incident anyway.

>> If some one says that the hair preserved in the kashmiri mosque belongs to a pig & not to the prophet…

If someone makes such a claim, all that is need to respond is to ask if there is any evidence for claim that the critic is making. No need to get paranoid about it.

>> Will you question the morality/huamnism of other religious figures, who married a child of 6 and consumnated the marriage by 9 ? In other words , a paedophile.

These things are raised by many people in this very forum itself. Thousands of books have been written and the internet has thousands of sites asking/answering these questions. Those who go on a rampage over these issues need to grow up.

>> This is better addressed to people who got the satanic verses banned , put a price on the head of danish cartoonists, killed film maker von gogh or got jesus christ super star banned in india, protested against the movie da vinci code banned, as they thought their religion was being ridiculerd.

The best case scenario is to handle these cases by producing a counter critique. There can be cases where some groups want to democratically protest and appeal for a ban etc (without resorting to violence, killing innocents etc), which is acceptable. I think that in cases where it is intended to be serious critique of religion on philosophical and moral grounds should preferably have the first kind of response (which is to produce a counter response). There are cases where some governments thought it fit to ban some movies, books etc even without anyone asking for it. But overall, the level of criticism that one can face is the measure of levels of tolerance/maturity etc. Someone who topped IIT, for example will not feel 'insulted' if someone calls him brainless. We should seek to increase the levels of tolerance/maturity, learn proper responses to criticism etc. And resorting to violence/killings of innocent on such a pretext is a big no-no.

>> Let us start by rubbishing the theory of immaculate conception & virgin mary , followed by creationism . Or Mother theresa becoming a saint as she came in a dream and cured cancer !!

One is absolutely free to do so, and I think it is required to question these.

>> Stop picking on hindus & theri beliefs ...

I do not understand this hyper-sensitivity of looking at everything as "picking on hindus', ‘insulting hindus’ etc. Looks like the BJP/RSS has succeeded in imbibing some sort of a victimhood in several people.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
35
>>>> Or if someone questions the morality/humanism in the events of a religious story/narrative, does that constitute "denigration"?

Let us start by rubbishing the theory of immaculate conception & virgin mary , followed by creationism . Or Mother theresa becoming a saint as she came in a dream and cured cancer !!

Stop picking on hindus & theri beliefs , as they are soft targets. Makes you look stupid, if you do not have the same questions for other religions.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
34
"Such stories seem to have been 'made up' in a desparate search for justifications for violence. Do you have a link from a reliable newspaper which reported this?
KUMAR"

As pointed out by someone else, Thuglak has published the details of the story. The Thuglak reported tried to contact the school for its version of the story-and they hung up the phone.

On a broader point, many christian schools run schools with the primary purpose of converting people. There is nothing shocking in this.

Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
33
>>If someone says that there is no reliable historical record for Krishna and hence it is mythological, does that constitute "denigration".

The original question by you was whether there is any link confirming this incident.Hope that question is answered for you.

If some one says that the hair preserved in the kashmiri mosque belongs to a pig & not to the prophet , as is widely accepted by muslims , as there is no historical record of the prophet preserving his hair there, is it denigration?

>> Or if someone questions the morality/humanism in the events of a religious story/narrative, does that constitute "denigration"?

Will you question the morality/huamnism of other religious figures, who married a child of 6 and consumnated the marriage by 9 ? In other words , a paedophile. If not , why not ? Why do youpick and ridicue only hindu beliefs?

>> One cannot live in a democratic society with freedom speech/expression without bumping across such stuff.

Funny.This is better addressed to people who got the satanic verses banned , put a price on the head of danish cartoonists, killed film maker von gogh or got jesus christ super star banned in india, protested against the movie da vinci code banned, as they thought their religion was being ridiculerd.

If other religions have no problem protesting if they feel their religion is ridiculed & if you had no problems with those protests, you have absolutely no locus standi to pick on hindus, when they feel the same.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
32
kumar

you should be able take few hard knocks too.

is your faith so week.

christians faced lions in roman arenas.

learn to turn the other cheek, and dont complain
we hindus are nasty guys. dont aggravate us.



lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
31
Seshadri,

>> Problem arises only when people in some religions despise and assault others as infidels or want to convert others as pagans.

Why is it a problem if someone tries to persuade someone about a religion or a philosophy? Many Hindu organizations do that.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
30
Lookout Bug me not,

The link you gave just says this: "As the students and some teachers left for shopping, the five persons started distributing pamphlets "propagating" Christianity and reportedly "denigrating" Hindu Gods, they said"

Now, what constitutes "denigrating" Hindu Gods, that too as explained by some "Hindu Makkal Katchi activists"? If someone says that there is no reliable historical record for Krishna and hence it is mythological, does that constitute "denigration". Or if someone questions the morality/humanism in the events of a religious story/narrative, does that constitute "denigration"? One cannot live in a democratic society with freedom speech/expression without bumping across such stuff.

If any, it is the "Hindu Makkal Katchi" that is denigrating hinduism by sending across a message that the faith is so weak that it cannot handle a pamphlet. Such things are written on all religions. All religions should learn to face criticism in this day and age and learn how to respond at a religious/philosophical level. That is a basic requirement of tolerance.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
29
Shivkumar:>>"People just want to take things for granted regarding matters of god and no updating of that is deemed necessary. This religion thing was invented by our ancestors and the rules laid down there were appropriate for that time only. Now in today's time the religion has become just a word for hatred amongst mankind. There are scores of people who have erased and deleted completely any association with the religion and are doing well. The gods did not vent his/her anger and made them insects. Not all the religious people are pure and caring for other humanity. So if we go and ban all the parties and news channels that propagate religiousity, our country will be rid of terrorism and other ills."

In full agreement with you. For each kid, the father is identified by the mom. The religion, by the parents and relatives. All people can happily practice the religion they are born into and respect the religions of others as equally valid. jaata-dharme yajed dheerah, sarva-dharmeshu sowhridah! Problem arises only when people in some religions despise and assault others as infidels or want to convert others as pagans. Those who are intellectually or spiritually attracted to some other religion, as they grow old could have the freedom to change.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
28
Rajesh:>>"As long as they don't expose children with Krishna in nude, I have no problem."

Krishna in the nude is only in your imagination, as a gay chap, perhaps. You may have no problem if chr kids are told Krishna was rapist. But, we hindus do have problems if our hindu kids in chr schools are told such stories about our gods. We have to ensure that hindu kids are not sent any more to churchian schools and colleges. You may run them for your own folk.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
27
Kumar:>>"Do you have a link from a reliable newspaper which reported this? "

Professors do not tell lies. Just read the news in latest issue of 'tuklaq', edited by cho Ramaswamy. English version could be there in Indian Express, I suppose.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
26
many a times voilence is used to justify violence, though both may be unrelated. argument is that one kind of terror by one community will stop if some otheroutfit is banned. this will be illusory. We have to remove our bias and help the indian state remove its bias. let's not judge everything which goes around. let us develop some faith in the state and give them confidence that they can do a good job
vibhaas
Doha, qatar
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
25
>>Such stories seem to have been 'made up' in a desparate search for justifications for violence. Do you have a link from a reliable newspaper which reported this?


http://timesofindia.ind...articleshow/3528164.cms
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
24
All religious outfits should be banned outright rather than going for a ban on smoking. This religion has done more harm than smoking. Excessive smoking can burn away your lungs but the religion virus gets into your system and corrupts all your memory system and bars entry of rationalised thoughts. The window closes for all 'whys' and 'hows' whenever anything is heard that is concerned with gods or religion. People just want to take things for granted regarding matters of god and no updating of that is deemed necessary. This religion thing was invented by our ancestors and the rules laid down there were appropriate for that time only. Now in today's time the religion has become just a word for hatred amongst mankind. There are scores of people who have erased and deleted completely any association with the religion and are doing well. The gods did not vent his/her anger and made them insects. Not all the religious people are pure and caring for other humanity. So if we go and ban all the parties and news channels that propagate religiousity, our country will be rid of terrorism and other ills.
shivkumar
Pratapgarh, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
23
Seshadri,

>> It has recently been reported that the teachers of the east-coastchr matric school of chennai, while on tour with students to ooty, halting in coimbatore, had asked their students, even hindu kids, to distribute 'rapist krishna' etc pamphlets to local hindus, suggesting conv to pure jesus.

Such stories seem to have been 'made up' in a desparate search for justifications for violence. Do you have a link from a reliable newspaper which reported this?
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
22
Seshadri,
>> It has recently been reported that the teachers of the east-coastchr matric school of chennai, while on tour with students to ooty, halting in coimbatore, had asked their students, even hindu kids, to distribute 'rapist krishna' etc pamphlets to local hindus, suggesting conv to pure jesus.

I also said that moral policing has no place in civilized society. No matter what you say, it is going to hurt someone's sentiment.

Even if I believe you about maligning Hindu gods, there is no reason to believe that those people represent church. As long as they don't expose children with Krishna in nude, I have no problem.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
21
Rajesh:>>"banning an outfit does not stop its activities. They go underground and extreme agendas become even more extreme. Right solution is to build public opinion against extremist outfits."

In full agreement with you. Banning SIMI, BD or New Life pamphleteers, will only send them undergroud. Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, both political and spiritual.

It has recently been reported that the teachers of the east-coastchr matric school of chennai, while on tour with students to ooty, halting in coimbatore, had asked their students, even hindu kids, to distribute 'rapist krishna' etc pamphlets to local hindus, suggesting conv to pure jesus. Local hindu activists have peacefully taken five of the churchian teachers to local police stations and got them jailed with FIRs the same night, without calling for socisl violence like bandhs. Vigilance of this kind among hindus, all over the country, is the real reqmnt. Overcoming of inter-caste hatreds among hindus will be a pre-requesite.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
20
Anwar,
>> Denise Spellberg, an associate professor of history at the University of Texas at Austin. Sent the book in advance, she determined that it was “an ugly, stupid piece of work” and “soft-core pornography,” she told The Journal."

It is called free publicity of book. The Texan professor was probably paid to do this kind of review.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
19
DC,
I share your concern that seemingly educated Hindus in India and in US condone anti-social behavior of Bajrang Dal.

But I do have few disagreements.
You want to law to prohibit people's expression that hurt someone's religious sentiment. But who will judge which expressions are offensive and how? It is totally subjective and open to abuse. Many Muslims consider any reference to Muhammad as offensive, which is nonsense.
I also don't support banning outfits, Bajrang Dal or SIMI. First, banning an outfit does not stop its activities. They go underground and extreme agendas become even more extreme. Right solution is to build public opinion against extremist outfits.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
18
Lalit,

>> why are they so enraged. its just a love story.

Here is what the New York Times reported on the book “The Jewel of Medina”, "The most alarming warnings apparently emanated from Denise Spellberg, an associate professor of history at the University of Texas at Austin. Sent the book in advance, she determined that it was “an ugly, stupid piece of work” and “soft-core pornography,” she told The Journal." The book however will not bother me. I hope Muslims ignore it, but one never knows. It will of course give empty-headed wags like you something to talk about!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
17
faruki

the book -the jewel from medina -will be comeing out soon.there is much interest in this book.

three muslim guys were arrested by british police, for trying to burn the house of the publisher.

so here go the mad mullahs again. why are they so enraged. its just a love story between 9 year
old ahashya and the profet,

lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
16
DC,

>> publication of literature maligning other religions is an offence.

It is also offensive.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
15
"India does need someone like Bajrang Dal among the civilians to protect from the atrocities of foreign elements." - Ram
This is a totally wrong argument. It's like saying you need goondas and hoodlums in the neighborhood to maintain peace because cops cannot do it. I do agree with Seshadri that publication of literature maligning other religions is an offence and such practices should be stopped by the authorities and the offenders be prosecuted as per Indian law.
But if you viewattacking Chritians and burning of churches as a justifiable reaction to the proselytizing missioneries, you are actually supporting a crime that deserves punishment. Two wrongs cannot make one right.
As a Hindu minority living in a predominantly Christian country I am allowed to practice my religion freely in the US, celebrate Diwali with fireworks and live a life of a Hindu without being questioned for thet. Many Hindu religious leaders like Swami Vivekananda (founder of Vedanta Society and Ramakrishna Mission) and Probhupada (founder of ISKON)have come and preached Hinduism to Christians in the US. Vedanta Society and ISKON continue to live here.
As a Hindu I feel sad and ashamed that back home Hindus are taking laws in their hands with the support of a goonda-raj named Bajrang Dal attacking Christians and their churches (which is a completely un-Hindu behaviour, if they have really understood Hindu religion). Even more unfortunate is the fact that there are educated urban civilized Hindus living in India as well as in the US who are viewing this as a legitimate reaction to the missionary aggression or Islamic terrorism. I hold BJP entirely responsible for pampering these goons in the name of energizing their vote bank. In Orissa a christian missionary was burnt alive with his children several years ago with the tacit support of Hindu communal goons. Ram if you justify existence of Bajrang Dal then you have to share the blame of burning alive a man with his children just because his religious views are different from yours or he preaches a religion different from yours. Is justice for killing of an innocent Hindu swamiji met when innocent christians are killed? What kind of justice are we talking about?
I hate India's secular politicians for minority politics and certainly urge them to interfere in forceful conversion, conversion with inducements and publication of literature aimed at maligning other religions. And I want them to ban SIMI and be tough on Islamic terrorists without bothering about the Muslim vote bank. And I also want them to ban Bajrang Dal or any other goonda raj in the garb of religious activity immediately.
DC
NEW YORK, United States
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
14
People in general seem to be ignorant of the real facts and media is to blame to paint a dismal picture. Rather than true journalism the media has become a puppet in the hands of vested interests. Taking snapshots and making mountain out of mole to serve ones purpose is the norm it appears.

Well the point is whats wrong with Bajrang Dal cadres. There is one group of formal military guarding the borders and India does need someone like Bajrang Dal among the civilians to protect from the atrocities of foreign elements. Do people forget history how the docile Hindus have been massacared and how atrocities are continuing on the Hindus. Conversions, bomb explosions.. rapes, murders, you name it.

RATHER THAN POLITICISING BAJRANG DAL SHOULD BE GIVEN A PROPER PURPOSE AND DIRECTION TO BE THE SAVIOURS.

desi bhai
ram
all purpose lane, India
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
13
>> "...considering the fact that urban India is bastion of Hindu communalism." >> Rajesh

> And where did you get this fact?

Hindu communalism is essentially upper caste problem. Urban has more concentration of upper castes. That's why BJP and its divisive politics originated from there.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
12
The poll doesn't represent the population of India. It is structued incorrectly. Bajrang Dal or anybody else shouldn't be allowed to get away nor any violent demoinstration of any kind be allowed. But at the same time all external funding for relegious purposes should be banned including conversions
vibhaas
Doha, qatar
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
11
Ban Islam from India which threatens the very survival of Hindus
hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
10
Sixty-nine. Sexy number. Just what you'd expect from a former girlie magazine editor.
St James
Pearly Gates, Vatican City
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
9
ZAK:>>"Karuna Nidh - Dalit - Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu"

MK, CM of TN, not dalit, BC from temple-singer caste, but atheist follower of periar, respects chr and mosl rituals, festivals, only considers hinduism is superstition 'aarya-maayaa', vinayaka only a northern deity, sanskrit a dead language, his family in 'royal' rule over the state.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
8
DC:>>"I strongly believe that Bajrang Dal should be banned in India"

In ktka, both bajrang-dhal and the 'new-life' convertor church and its publications on hindu gods, should simultaneously banned.

In Orissa, the reservational benefits for both tribals, and SCs, either converted to chr or otherwise, should be frozen, until their benefit-spreads are judiciously reviewed and possible injustices involved are eliminated.

>>"and more strongly feel that Rajesh is banned from posting this forum"

I AGREE WITH YOU.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
7
"...considering the fact that urban India is bastion of Hindu communalism." >> Rajesh

And where did you get this fact? Another figment of your own imagination as usual. I saw someone thulped you for your stupid comments on anti OBC/SC/ST biases saying that BJP has many leaders from OBC including Modi and more SC/ST representation than Congress. Your biased opinion is seldom backed by any authentic source of information.

I strongly believe that Bajrang Dal should be banned in India and more strongly feel that Rajesh is banned from posting this forum until he starts posting educated opinion instead of uninformed biases.

DC
NEW YORK, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
6

India in 2008 is being ruled by Minorities.

1. Sonia Gandhi - White Christian - Political Head of the ruling government

2. Manmohan Singh - a Sikh - Prime Minister of India

3. Mayawati - Dalit - Chief Minister of the largest state of India

4. Karuna Nidh - Dalit - Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, one of the SIX states that determine the Central government formation in India

5. Y S R Reddy - Christian convert - Chief Minister - Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh, one of the SIX states that determine the Central government formation in India

6. Achuthananthan - MBC candidate - Chief Minister of Kerala, a Model state of India

Minority suppression is a bogus claim.
Zak
NY, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
5

Dear India-

Bring up the infrastructure in the country and fix the system errors in governance. Indians can throw up their foreign jobs and come back to India, if you do these two. The world will come knocking at your doors. India can dictate its terms.

India Inc as a nation, can marekt its strength and sell its resources - People. No where in the world, one can get a quality work at the cheapest rate as Indians do. That's called efficiency.

Indians can live in India with their own traditions, cultures, customs, cinema, and music.

If we continue to do so, Indian currency will perform better than the GREEN BAG and the world currencies will be traded against the Indian currency. Indian currency can be the common trading currency as in the past in Asia.

It's very much possible, if there's a political will....
Zak
NY, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
4
“Most of the terror/blast suspects are Muslims. Why do you think this is so?” and the most obvious answer is NOT included…

Right now, the nation is reeling under terrorist attacks by SIMI, but Outlook didn’t ask the very obvious question, “Why do you think the central government is soft on militant Islamic groups?

So much for this bullshit survey!!!
Kiran Bagachi
mumbai, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
3
Very interesting survey.
Even though Muslims are over-represented, overwhelming majority, including majority of Hindus, clearly see Bajrang Dal as threat.
This is even more interesting considering the fact that urban India is bastion of Hindu communalism.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
2
This is a concocted survey with lots of loaded questions.

Sample this:

(a) Why do you think the central government is soft on militant Hindu groups?

b)Can the activities of the BD, such as bomb-making, be called terrorist activities?

Outlook could have also added the original:

(c) Have you stopped beating your wife
i) YES
ii) NO
J
Bangalore, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
1
Wow!!!

500 odd people in 5 cities speak for India. WoWWWW!!! India population 55% Hindu & 45% Muslim...Double WoWWWW!!!!

I wonder where did you get so high percentage of nay sayers though...Am sure, of your sample, 101% would have bayed for a ban on BD
ankush poddar
Kolkata, India
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