PTI
Christians protest against attacks on their community in Orissa
biased indian state
Few Blind Men Of Hindostan
Why is the Indian State quick to nail minority offences but myopic to Sangh transgressions?
media bias
A naive, populist media leads the state in baying for terrorist blood
Saba Naqvi
opinion
For all our denial and bluster on Kashmir, the Indian state's secular narcissism may not survive a Modi on the throne
Pankaj Mishra
bajrang dal
Just who is a terrorist? Definitions change when it comes to the Hindutva extreme.
Smita Gupta
Outlook-GfK Mode Opinion Poll
Interviews conducted in Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta, Hyderabad, Lucknow with 516 respondents on September 23 and 24

"We didn't expect UPA to be so uncaring about our plight in Karnataka and Orissa. They don't care because Christians do not make a votebank." 
-Fr Dominic Emmanuel, Spokesman, Delhi Catholic Church

"The situation today is more lethal for Muslims because an individual can become a national hero by showing bias against them." 
-Shahid Siddiqui,
Editor, Nayi Duniya

"This talk of mastermind is nonsense. No mastermind is involved in planting bombs. A mastermind certainly isn't a boy on a computer." 
Ajit Doval, Former IB chief

"Some would be satisfied if there is a law offering complete immunity to a person who shot another on mere suspicion of being a terrorist." 
-K.G. Kannabiran,
Andhra Civil Rights Activist

"Those who took part in the '92 riots may be respectable citizens today. Terrorists are committed to undermine the state's sovereignty." 
-Swapan Dasgupta,
BJP ideologue

"State performance relates to all levels of governance, not just minorities. If the cops are ham-handed, it's to cover their own incompetence." 
-Gurcharan Das,
Author

***

Instruments Of Bias

POTA

  • Defunct terror law used in Gujarat to target Muslims for Godhra. Hindus involved spared
  • 3,000 arrests nationwide since the law's enforcement. Most detentions in Chhattisgarh and Jharkhand; also in TN against LTTE sympathisers
Armed Forces Special Powers Act
  • Applies to declared 'disturbed' areas like J&K and Manipur; offers immunity to army officers from prosecution
  • Five Rashtriya Rifles officers still not prosecuted for killing five in a March 2000 fake encounter in J&K
  • Assam Rifles jawans accused of raping Manorama Devi in Manipur unpunished
Official Secrets Act
  • Allows state to persecute those seen as a "national threat"
  • Widely misused to fix whistleblowers, dissenters
  • Administrative Reforms Commission called for its immediate repeal
Target Maoists
  • Most above laws and state-specific security acts have been used to target Naxals, their 'sympathisers' and rights activists like Dr Binayak Sen

***

Cross Christians: Protesting the attack on this Bangalore church

In the age of terror and hate campaigns, the Indian state looks so much less than it was intended to be. Human beings are full of prejudice; the state should be seen to be above bias. In India the majority of citizens have for years seen the state as the epitome of inefficiency and corruption. But more damningly, the poor and the marginalised see it as an active instrument of injustice. And now, Muslims and Christians increasingly agree.

Consider some basic facts that have been part of the public discourse in the last few weeks. Muslim youth are picked up at random and identified as terrorists, with the police in several metros claiming they have "the mastermind".

 
 
"Politicians are after our vote, police in our hot pursuit" — SMS circulating among Muslims.
 
 
Their identities and sketches are released to the media. Christians continue to be attacked in the Indian hinterland but no serious attempt has been made to stop the hate crimes or ban the organisations engaged in assaults on the minority. A dangerous imbalance is at play. An incoherent and asymmetrical response that can only further undermine the ideals India was built on.

Today, most Christians and Muslims believe the state is biased against them. Says Father Dominic Emmanuel, spokesperson of the Delhi Catholic Church, "We did not expect the UPA at the Centre to be so ineffective and uncaring about our plight in Orissa and Karnataka. But they are callous and don't care because Christians do not make a votebank. They don't want to alienate Hindus and that must be why they are not coming down hard on the Bajrang Dal and other Sangh parivar outfits. We are helpless as we continue to be attacked in a country where liberty and freedom were promised to all."


We see you: Police keep strict vigil on Muslim protesters in Delhi

What about Muslims—a votebank pursued hotly by most political parties? In an instance of black humour emerging out of the community, one sms reads: "The politicians are after our vote, the police in hot pursuit of us." Says Shahid Siddiqui, editor of Urdu weekly Nayi Duniya and BSP member: "Muslims aren't the only people the state is biased against.

 
 
In Karnataka, Bajrang Dal convenor got bail while Christians were charged under non-bailable sections
 
 
Many underprivileged communities and the poor have faced prejudice from society and the state. But the situation today is more lethal for Muslims because an individual can become a national hero by showing bias against them." So, if Narendra Modi can become an iconic political figure, why should an ordinary policeman care if innocent Muslims are arrested in the hunt for terrorists?

There is, however, a larger problem in the manner in which investigations into terror strikes are being conducted. Former IB chief Ajit Doval is considered a hawk on matters of national security but he tells Outlook: "The talk of getting a mastermind is nonsense—no mastermind is ever involved in planting bombs as the police tell us. If there is a mastermind, it is certainly not a boy with details on his computer." Does Doval therefore believe the state is biased? "In certain situations, government agencies behave in a way that leads certain communities and individuals to conclude that the response is biased." He explains the process: when security agencies are under political and media pressure to deliver results for public consumption, they do not count the collateral damage. "A policeman will be told nothing should happen in your area and get the terrorists quickly," says Doval.

The sequence of events could go like this: the police team starts watching Muslim hubs like madrassas and urban ghettoes in their neighbourhood. Some young men are picked up on suspicion.

 
 
"You can bring in any law," says ex-CJI J.S. Verma, "but it’s as good as the people who implement it."
 
 
If they do indeed have other "suspicious" material on their person, in their homes or on their computers, they are possibly arrested as terrorists. In the case of the Delhi accused, the police procured head-scarves associated with Palestinian guerrillas, swathed three young men in them and produced them before the media as terrorists. The Christian community too is facing prejudice in a somewhat different form.

In Karnataka, for instance, Christians protesting the violence against them have been charged under non-bailable sections of the law. But the charges against Bajrang Dal state convenor Mahendra Kumar were so weak that he secured bail in a few days. Nor did the BJP government in Karnataka express any remorse about the attacks on Christians in the state.

For right-wing ideologue and journalist Swapan Dasgupta equating the Bajrang Dal with SIMI is like comparing a water pistol to an AK-47. "Rioters," he says, "cannot be equated with terrorists. An individual who took part in the Bombay riots of 1992 may be a respectable citizen today while a terrorist is committed to undermining the sovereignty of the state." Dasgupta also counters the argument about the state being prejudiced against particular communities or social groups. "The Indian state is not a neutral state. It has multiple levels of biases. It is also not a very efficient state and is a source of harassment for all citizens regardless of caste and creed."

A lucid argument perhaps. But facts suggest a systematic bias against specific social groups at different times because of a perceived threat by those who constitute the state. Noted Andhra Pradesh civil rights activist and PUCL president K.G. Kannabiran says that before the serial blasts across the country, the poor were targeted in the state because of Naxalism. Now it's the turn of Muslims to feel this heat not just in AP but across India. He also says that the political clamour for stronger laws is just eyewash. "If POTA is removed, state governments bring in other laws that are equally draconian. But there is a section in our society that would only be satisfied if a law existed that allowed complete immunity to someone who shot someone on mere suspicion of supporting terrorism!"


Cops parade 'terrorists' in Arab keffiyah head dresses

In the absence of any real political courage or coherent policy to tackle terrorism, there is competitive sloganeering about stronger laws. Serial blasts have, after all, struck India in the global context of the war against terror and the domestic backdrop of a general election. Given the way our democracy has evolved, it is the stuff of emotive politics, not sensible policy. Former Chief Justice of India, J.S. Verma, says that all this talk of new laws is rubbish as those who understand the legal system know it is adequate to tackle the problem. "You can bring in any system or law," he says, "but it is as good as the people in the system who will implement it."

The first President of India, Dr Rajendra Prasad, had once said that the "worth of the Constitution will depend on the worth of the men who work it". Justice Verma says the state is not biased, it is rotting from within. "The original sin is the pursuit of personal interest by public men. That is today the only ideology followed by those who serve the Indian State. After themselves, they serve their kith and kin. Then the caste and community." That, according to the former CJI, is how biases work in the state. Not because there is a great national conspiracy. Verma points to the fact that the last bastions of public accountability—the judiciary and media—are also getting corrupted or swayed in what passed for public hype. He says: "Dr C. Rajagopalachari had once said that national character is determined by the sum of individual character. There are many people of conviction in India but they don't get a chance as the system is rotting from within. If you have a billion rotten apples you will have a stink."

Is the state biased by intent? Or callous by default? Management guru and columnist Gurcharan Das believes the Indian state is just incompetent and incapable of delivering on most fronts. Combine that with political interference and we have a recipe for disaster. "We know there is great institutional rot in the bureaucracy, judiciary and other institutions of the state. The issue of state performance is related to all levels of governance, not just minorities. If the police do a ham-handed investigation that terrifies minorities, it is to cover their own incompetence," he says. He does not believe there is a grand conspiracy against minorities or the poor.

To define a state as unwieldy as ours would be almost impossible. Social activists would argue that the state is an instrument of oppression used systematically against minorities and the poor. The right wing would say India is a soft state that simply cannot come down hard on terrorists and "anti-national forces". The truth probably lies somewhere in between. India is at many levels an incompetent state that can be manipulated to target certain communities. It is a state run by men who can be overcome by their own prejudices and never be held accountable for such lapses. It is a state that some would argue is biased against all citizens because it delivers nothing to anyone. It is a state where an attempt is made to cover incompetence with more incompetence. It is a state that criminally neglects its duties. Or acts in an overzealous manner that convinces many citizens that the state is indeed the enemy.

media bias
A naive, populist media leads the state in baying for terrorist blood
Saba Naqvi
opinion
For all our denial and bluster on Kashmir, the Indian state's secular narcissism may not survive a Modi on the throne
Pankaj Mishra
bajrang dal
Just who is a terrorist? Definitions change when it comes to the Hindutva extreme.
Smita Gupta
Outlook-GfK Mode Opinion Poll
Interviews conducted in Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta, Hyderabad, Lucknow with 516 respondents on September 23 and 24
 
Daily MailPublished
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Mar 25, 2009 12:00 AM
206
>> Let the parties and candidates come out openly and declare in their public speeches with conviction unconditionally, that they will work for all sections of society

BJP has done it multiple times. It is not their fault if the seculars ignore such statements.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Mar 25, 2009 12:00 AM
205
Al Bundy,

>> Despite this, if the media keeps on talking about Gujarat and Babri, and does not talk about 84, the problem is with the media. Doesn't make the Congress any better.

It is very simple. We don’t even have to discuss the legalities and technicalities of who is acquitted, status of court cases etc. Let the parties and candidates come out openly and declare in their public speeches with conviction unconditionally, that they will work for all sections of society, support equal citizenship, rights, welfare, freedom, security etc; and condemn hate speech, condemn rioting, communalism, moral policing, extremism etc. And express regret about all the riots/violence etc that happened and show positive resolve to condemn and eradicate all such religious rioting/extremism/violence/violation of rights etc in the future. Parties like BJP/ShivSena/MNS etc cannot say it. They will say things like let Muslims stop their communalism and then we will also stop etc. Instead, they should say that they will stamp out all kinds of communalism/extremism etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Mar 25, 2009 12:00 AM
204
>> That one statement by Rajiv and 1984 riots have been misused/abused by the likes of Shivsena/BJP

While there is a record of Rajiv making that statement, there is no record of Modi invoking Newton's third law after Gujarat riots. He has still been villianized for it.

And more than the statement, there was the "minor" matter of killing of 3000 people by the Congress goons. If the secular media decides to brush it under the carpet, and you choose to close your eyes to it, BJP and its supporters have a right to highlight it.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Mar 25, 2009 12:00 AM
203
>> Golwalkar/Savarkar would be relevant only if the BJP or any group continues to embrace their ideology, promotes it and actively indulge in activities in accordance with it.

Actually, BJP rarely talks about the Hindutva defn given by Golwalkar these days. How many times have you heard some senior BJP leader invoke his speech?

>> If the Congress continues to mantain an anti-sikh ideology, that will be equally a live issue

At least Advani and Vajpayee expressed regrets for Babri demolition and Gujarat, and Modi categorically denied invoking Newton's third law.

In contrast, Rajiv brazenly justified the riots, senior leaders widely suspected of inciting and leading the mobs held important positions in the govt, and might again end up getting nominations for the Lok Sabha. Despite this, if the media keeps on talking about Gujarat and Babri, and does not talk about 84, the problem is with the media. Doesn't make the Congress any better.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
202
LBMN,

>> >>They go back 25 years every time they are questioned. That should not be allowed either.

>> Then why do you keep quiet when other succulars herego back to golvarkar or savarkar to pillory BJP

Golwalkar/Savarkar would be relevant only if the BJP or any group continues to embrace their ideology, promotes it and actively indulge in activities in accordance with it. If they categorically distance themselves, there is no need to quote them, except may be in the context of history. If the Congress continues to mantain an anti-sikh ideology, that will be equally a live issue.

>> or go back to manusmriti to ridicule hindus.

Manusmithi is not followed as a law anywhere, so in practical/political terms, it is not relevant. But one may quote it in the context of a religious debate, in the same way as Old testament can be quoted etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
201
>>You cannot equate one impromptu statement made by Rajiv at his mothers assasination ..

That statement by rajiv gandhi was neither impromptu nor made immediately after her mothers assasination. It was made after the systematic killings of 3000 + sikhs by congress goons & many days later

>>After that one statement he never made any anti-sikh hate speech...

another pseudo succular with selective amnesia ! rajivs congress party took full page ads in newspapers during teh next election with the photo of a sikh and the caption " will you trust this man ? " May be certified pseudo succulars think that wa sot hate speech.

>>They go back 25 years every time they are questioned. That should not be allowed either.

Funny . Then why do you keep quiet when other succulars herego back to golvarkar or savarkar to pillory BJP or go back to manusmriti to ridicule hindus. succular Double statndards again.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
200
>> The hindutva extremist groups on the other hand are only constantly increasing in their viciousness and evil.

Actually, no.

While BJP's rise to influence was largely on the back of Hindutva, in most recent elections, it has focused on governance as its main campaign plank. So much so, that a desperate media and opposition have often derided it of abandoning Lord Ram. They probably want BJP to adopt a communal approach.

Yes, from time to time, BJP functionaries do resort to communal rhetoric, sometimes of a fairly vicious nature. Varun's speech, or the VCD during UP elections are some recent examples of this. However, the claim that others have abandoned this approach is entirely wrong. One of the most crude and vulgar assault on a sacred figure (of any religion) was made recently by Karunanidhi. Opposition to Taslima Nasreen's stay in India and her right to free speech was led by members of the secular brigade, and it was a union minister himself who asked her to leave the country.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
199
K:>>”On the other hand the hindutva communal movement”
Kids saying ‘bharat-maata ki jai’, in rss Saakhaas, have neither hindutva nor communalism in their words or their hearts.

>>” is led by the rich and the powerful”
The lower-middle-class school teachers, college lecturers, committed to nationalist patriotism,
Neither rich, nor at all powerful’

>>” and from the highest social ranks of the hindu social order”.
No such thing called hindu social order. Most hindus these days only trying to get the certificated status of the lowest caste or tribe possible! An aachaaryaa was jailed on a diwali ngt, no hindus bothered, some wisdom dawned only when there was a severe tsunami on the next Christmas mrg! The only order among hindus is that of jesus, blessed are the poor!. The more pious are more poor basically, only God’s blessings are more with them, as seen practically.

The reservation system is designed mainly to deny adm, jobs, to the Bs as FCs, all others can get obc certificates, all castes other than Bs get ranked in open system first, rest claim reserve.

Bs do only self-study, go for higher educ in massachussetts, oxford, or Singapore. Actually coach foreign students of these countries, also thro the internet. The poor hindu Brahmin has literally become the mendicant aachaarya of the world, as he has been supposed to be, in vedic views !

>>”And what is worse, they are exceeding all limits of viciousness which even the genuinely disadvantaged sections like dalits/backwards etc never descended to. Surely the cunning strategists in this case do not seem to be bound by any limits of viciousness or evil”.
The viciousness and evil is there only in your ‘church-propaganda’ imagination!.

>>”Even the most provocative of dalit/backward leaders kept their limits and actually moderated once their initial objective of gaining a share of power was achieved The dalit/backward leaders almost stopped their rhetoric once their objective was reached.”.
Exactly. Periar’s dictat for cutting off B’s tufts stopped when Bs stopped having tufts!. Nowadays, most small temples in TN are only manned by Bs who have jobs during the day, but operate as non-tuft shrine-keepers, free-prasad givers, in the mrgs and evgs. Divinity resides only in the hearts of the devout, as it should be, in all relig.

>>”The hindutva extremist groups on the other hand are only constantly increasing in their viciousness and evil”.
Only in the propaganda of the church-conv groups. You should read real news, not only the propaganda material of your church.

Reality is that devout hindus are only worrying about how they can go about cleaning up the sacred rivers, from ganges to kaaveri andc also link them up, with support from saintly organizers like satya sai and nationalist moslem leaders like abdul kalam.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
198
>> every time muslims were arrested the entire secular community claimed that they were being victimised.

In general, when a poor/backward/suffering section raises a protest, there is a natural tendency to lend a sympathetic ear and give the benefit of a doubt. This happens not just with Muslims, but also with dalits, backwards etc (or like blacks in US). So when people like Mayawati, Lalu, Paswan, Mulayam, Karunanidhi etc raised a banner seeking a share in power, they were not seen necessarily seen as rabid casteists, but as victims/exploited/disadvantaged sections for centuries, now democratically seeking a share of power which is not unreasonable. Some of their rhetoric in that context has been overlooked.
On the other hand the hindutva communal movement is led by the rich and the powerful and from the highest social ranks of the hindu social order. And what is worse, they are exceeding all limits of viciousness which even the genuinely disadvantaged sections like dalits/backwards etc never descended to. Surely the cunning strategists in this case do not seem to be bound by any limits of viciousness or evil. Even the most provocative of dalit/backward leaders kept their limits and actually moderated once their initial objective of gaining a share of power was achieved. The dalit/backward leaders almost stopped their rhetoric once their objective was reached. The hindutva extremist groups on the other hand are only constantly increasing in their viciousness and evil.

>> when tasleema was chased out of calcutta,the seculars were quiet. pranab mukerjee sent her out
of india in order not to annoy the muslims.

Many raised their voice in support of Taslima. If the govt. is sensing trouble that the msulims community will not behave, it is not something that the community has to be proud of. It is something to be ashamed of.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
197
kumar

every time muslims were arrested the entire secular community claimed that they were being victimised.

this was notable in the case of the batla house
shoot out.

amar singh was there offering money to defend
innocent muslim students. arundhati roy, arjun
singh were loud spoken.

when tasleema was chased out of calcutta,the seculars were quiet. pranab mukerjee sent her out
of india in order not to annoy the muslims.

you must have a shocking memory.

frankly i believe that minorities are partial to each other, suspect the majority community, and
use all the tricks of the trade to get what they want.

my feeling is that many members of the minority communities would prefer a rule by the britts-
and failing this have opted for an italian sonia gandhi,because she is a non hindu.

the only hindus accepted are week kneed guys
like arjun singh, pranab mukerjee ,mani shankar
iyer- these guys would sell their souls for the sake of power, and also have something against
their own religion.

especially true for arjun singh, and mani shankar.

banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
196
>> hate speeches are made all over the world-
>> they are made in fair denmark,despite specific laws

It would be interesting to see a link from US election speeches or from Denmark where such speeches are made. I am still hoping that there are place in this world which are mature secular democracies and resisting the provocations to turn as fanatics.

>> karunanidhi, lalloo, mayawati also incite to hate

Lalu, Mulayam, Mayawati etc have made an issue of non-representation of their castes/sections in the corridors of power and took pot shots at the sections/castes who always took power and monopolized it (before they themselves captured power). That is not the same as inciting violence. Even in their most aggressive and provocative moment, they never talked of slitting throats, cutting hands etc of anyone nor have they incited/indulged in riots or killing of innocents on the basis of caste. Karunanidhi or Mayawti may have taken pot-shots at Brahmins for their dominance etc, but did they kill or incited riots on them on communal/caste lines? The so-called OBC-Dalit leaders have never descended to that level.

>> there are criminals elected to parliament who have killed public servants

Yes, there are criminal elements like that which need to be cleaned, but there is still a difference between a sponsor of riots that could kills hundreds and thousands of innocents and poisons the whole culture, as opposed to someone accused of a bribe or even a political murder.

>> onesides lectures to the hindu community

Where is the question of one-sided "lecture"? The criminal elements you are talking about who killed public servants etc are also mostly hindus, aren’t they? And moreover, it is always agreed that the Islamist ideology is gravest threat today and most of the attention is on them. Islamists are not hindus, so where is the question of one-sidedness?
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
195
kumar

hindus make hate speeches

muslims go right ahead and kill their enemies.

hate speeches are made all over the world-

they are made in fair denmark,despite specific laws. if society has hate imbedded in it,as in india, there will always be people like varun.

whats required is to effectively stop any follow through-killing of innocents.

karunanidhi, lalloo, mayawati also incite to hate. there are criminals elected to parliament who have killed public servants, and mms has them in his cabinet.

onesides lectures to the hindu community will
only arouse cynicism.
banitoadolfo
roma, Italy
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
194
Maha,

>> It is amazing how media creates story out of nothing story to show him in poor light e.g. when India won the T20 WC, media blasted Modi for not immediately congratulating ( he did after 4 days) Irfan and Youseuf Pathan giving it communal color. This is not withstanding that most of other CMs have not done it also.

Well, I do not want to drag the discussion too long, but it basically boils down to the same thing. The scrutiny in those lines is natural (though in this case, it is a trivial issue), given that Modi has not reached out or expressed regret etc, and continues the hate speech etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
193
Kumar,

I am not interested in moral lecturing. I am only pointing out hypocrisy of media. that is all. It is amazing how media creates story out of nothing story to show him in poor light e.g. when India won the T20 WC, media blasted Modi for not immediately congratulating ( he did after 4 days) Irfan and Youseuf Pathan giving it communal color. This is not withstanding that most of other CMs have not done it also.
Maha
NJ, United States
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
192
Maha,

>> Again there is nothing that Modi has done after riots that has affected minorities in the state.

All he needs to do, if he is honest, is the express regret and remorse at what has happened stop and condemn the hate speech and instead use the speech to reach out to all.

>> Rajiv Gandhi did play communal card also during his tenor specially with Shah Bano case.

That is a complex situation where orthodox Muslims were projecting is as an interference into the religioous practice, much like what we see with caste panchayats or how abolition of sati was viewed as interference. But Rajiv was wrong in what he did and he should have been strong in opposing the religious bigotry.

>> I feel the reason Modi has grown larger than life because of hypocrisy of so called secular media.

The media is absolutely right in condemning 1984 riots as well as condemning all the hate propaganda, communalism, riots, vandalism etc by the likes of Modi

>> The more media keeps repeating 2002 ignoring all his non-corrupt effective administration, more people will vote for him

It does not matter. What is wrong has to be called as wrong and needs to be condemned. If Congress keeps up anti-sikh hate and keeps winning elections, it should still be condemned, till better sense prevails. That is our duty as citizens to condemn what is wrong.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
191
Kumar,

Again there is nothing that Modi has done after riots that has affected minorities in the state. In fact the poster muslim man who got offer from West Bengal with so much publicity, eventually returned to the state. Modi has hired a muslim police officer. Rajiv Gandhi did play communal card also during his tenor specially with Shah Bano case.

I feel the reason Modi has grown larger than life because of hypocrisy of so called secular media. The more media keeps repeating 2002 ignoring all his non-corrupt effective administration, more people will vote for him
Maha
NJ, United States
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
190
Maha,

>> I am only referring to the media treatment of Modi vs Rajiv Gandhi when they both have tried to justify the riots shamelessly. About remorse, Rajiv Gandhi also never apologized

But you need to be fair. You cannot equate one impromptu statement made by Rajiv at his mothers assasination to a series of sustained hate campaign and hate speech done over year after year and decade after decade. I am not sure if Rajiv Gandhi explicitly apologized, but that he does not have a sustained/continued anti-sikh agenda need not be doubted. After that one statement he never made any anti-sikh hate speech. That one statement by Rajiv and 1984 riots have been misused/abused by the likes of Shivsena/BJP to justify all their riots and hate campaigns etc day after day. They go back 25 years every time they are questioned. That should not be allowed either. It is like this: When questioned about the misdeeds of Islamists, they go back to the past to dig what Christians, Hindus etc have also done in the past, as if that justifies their continued/sustained indulgence in misdeeds and violations of rights.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM
189
Kumar,

I am only referring to the media treatment of Modi vs Rajiv Gandhi when they both have tried to justify the riots shamelessly. About remorse, Rajiv Gandhi also never apologized.
Maha
NJ, United States
Mar 23, 2009 12:00 AM
188
Maha,

>> hate articles on Modi every month in every newspaper 7 years after riot ( mind u Rajeev Gandhi never faced this after 1984 riots), he still has got elected twice as Chief Minister.

Not really true. The 1984 riots continue to haunt the Congress even after 25 years (in spite of repeated apologies, expressing of regret etc in almost every debate related to communalism) and the likes of BJP/Shivsena/MNS etc do their riots/violence etc relentlessly with impunity, and when questioned, they will conveniently show 1984 riots. Even Varun Gandhi referred to 1984 riots! So the likes of BJP/Shivsena justified their thousands of such acts by merely pointing to the 1984 riots. As for election is concerned, the Congress too won the 1984 election by a record margin, but it is still condemnable and the electoral win does not justify the role of Congress in 1984 riots. Modi has not even expressed regret or remorse or condemned what has happened in 2002.

The greatness of democracy is not that every decision or electoral verdict would be right. It can go wrong many times. But since there is continued/sustained debate, accountability and the leaders are constantly challenged/questioned, the best will eventually come out.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Mar 23, 2009 12:00 AM
187
Himanshu,

"it is my request that if topics relating to RSS are covered then it should not be one sided story. "

You are too optimistic to expect that. Most of these writers are arm chair pundits. They already have article template ready. They just need once incident to use it. But the ground realities are the one that drives voters to vote. You would see hate articles on Modi every month in every newspaper 7 years after riot ( mind u Rajeev Gandhi never faced this after 1984 riots), he still has got elected twice as Chief Minister.
Maha
NJ, United States
Mar 23, 2009 12:00 AM
186
Your articles are good, but never has an effort been made by anyone in media community about the way Christian missionaries are doing their business in India and maybe what is happening is a reaction to their transgressions. Maybe the Hindu community is tired of the pseudo secularists who have taken over the country. I personally was a witness to a Church priest refusing to share the aid received from a NGO after the tsunami with the Hindus of the village if they refused to convert. This is a kind of incident that highlights the pseudo secularism being practised by the media, and the it is my request that if topics relating to RSS are covered then it should not be one sided story.
Himanshu Rajgor
New York, United States
Oct 31, 2008 12:00 AM
185
"Government must be transparent in its response to terrorism. The public has a right to know what happened on that day. And even the worst among us — the alleged criminals and terrorists — have a right to due process. That includes the right to a fair and speedy trial, the right to a proper defence and the presumption of innocence until a person is proven guilty. It is these safeguards that give a democracy its backbone."


http://timesofindia.ind...articleshow/3656064.cms


Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 17, 2008 12:00 AM
184
17/10/08

Read how Australians are paying jazia to the Lebanese muslim immigrants, who enjoy better financial support than the Australian retired senior citizens; the muslims include terrorist accused also. This is the result of listening to the secular fanatics. We in India seem to be doing better.

“AUSTRALIA'S 22 terror suspects and their families receive more than $1 million a year in taxpayer-funded welfare and legal aid. And simply because the men were locked up, their families received a social security pay rise of as much as $1700 a year.

Abdul Nacer Benbrika -- leader of a radical group of Islamists -- has been in Australia for 10 years and has never had a job. Taxpayers provide his wife with almost $50,000 a year in welfare.
Adding tens of thousands of dollars in parenting payments, rent assistance and family tax benefits to the cost of legal services for the accused makes a total bill to taxpayers of more than $1 million.

Mr Benbrika, of Algerian descent, he has a Lebanese-born wife and seven children.
Under Centrelink rules, she was entitled to almost $50,000 a year in welfare while her husband was in prison, awaiting trial.

Ahmed Raad, another Melbourne suspect, has a child and his wife is entitled to about $21,500 a year, as are the wives of Ezzit Raad and Abdullah Merhi.

The wife of another suspect, Hany Taha, who has three children, is entitled to up to $30,000 a year.

Engineer Mohamed Ali Elomar of Sydney, charged with conspiracy to carry out a terrorist attack , has five children and his wife is entitled to about $38,000 a year in taxpayer payments.

A Centrelink spokeswoman said the fact someone had been jailed for terrorist offences did not stop their spouse or children receiving welfare. The maximum parenting payment increases from $377.50 a fortnight to $444.20 when a spouse is in jail, she said.”

Read here:


http://islammonitor.org...temid=96#jc_allComments


It reinforces my earler statement that muslims are an unproductive, violent and undesirable part of any diverse society.
Proud Hindu
Los Angeles, United States
Oct 17, 2008 12:00 AM
183
Proud Hindu/Thiagan,

As I told you before, you are a dope and a bore. Get a life!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 16, 2008 12:00 AM
182
bvrao:"'Dalits' and 'Backward Classes'constitute majority of the Hindus in India"

You are a typical OBC now shedding crocodile tears for the dalits, combining yourself with dalits in backwardness for reservations! but, over the centuries, only the OBCs, as temple-lords dharma-kartas of temples, have oppressed the priests inside the temples and the dalits [mostly brahmins forced to be scavengers] to stay outside the villages, with no rights to enter temples. Such OBCs are now asking for reserv, also, bec they are jealous that dalits have come up with reservational liftups, to some degree of equality with yourselves..
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 16, 2008 12:00 AM
181
16/10/08

"it is fatuous to think that the public sphere can be expunged of all representations of religion that its adherents might find offensive."

Why then Theo Van Gogh was killed and Taslima and Salman are running for cover? There can not two rules. The Supreme Court recently said that a nude Bharat Mata is legally correct and this means a nude Ayisha is also legally correct.
Proud Hindu
Los Angeles, United States
Oct 16, 2008 12:00 AM
180
16/10/08

Green Leaf

The reply is the typically arrogant, insolent and inadequete. It only reinforces my contention that:

> Islam will reform itself internally and only a violent reaction by the rest of the world can do that
> The believers will continue to be unproductive, violent and undesirables and will be burden on any diverse society
> The believers will never ensure gender equality and keep their women in perpetual slavery
> The believers will never eschew their ambitions for world domination and universal imposition of shaqriaat and thus an eternal threat to the civilisation
> The believers will continue to loot, rape and kill, in the great tradition of the founder

Islam like Communism is an evil ideology and should be challenged and defeated.
Proud Hindu
Los Angeles, United States
Oct 16, 2008 12:00 AM
179
So this Zak of Newyork thinks that 'A Dalit' and 'persons of Backward Classes'in India are part of "Minorities"! The 'Dalits' and 'Backward Classes'constitute majority of the Hindus in India; and yet suppressed by a cunning minority of Creamy Castes of Hindus who have hijacked the Democratic power vested in the people by the Indian Constitution, by infiltrating the bureaucracy and the Media. At least in Newyork the Blacks are minority and Whites constitute majority, though racism is an unforgivable evil. Let Zak(orJack!) mind his business in Newyork as he(or she)does not seem to know much about India except for the names and 'castes' of some of the Indian Leaders.
B V Rao
Anakapalle, India
Oct 16, 2008 12:00 AM
178
16/10/08

Five questions to all the sickulaists:

1) Islam treats its mninorities shabbily world over. In fact there is no space for a minority religion in the belief system called Islam. Either convert or get killed. Why the others should treat the followers of Islam differently?

2) When in majority impose theocracy and when in minority demand secularism. Why not deny all rghts to the muslims in other countries, till they reciprocate the gesture?

3) Since muslims refuse family planning and prefer to increase their size disproportionately, why others should not deny them all facilities under the laws?

4) Muslim girls can not marry non muslims. Hence why not a ban on other girls marrying muslims?

5) Since the Book contains violent verses and since they constutute the fountain head of all terror attacks, why not a ban on the Book?
Proud Hindu
Los Angeles, United States
Oct 11, 2008 12:00 AM
177
My comment on Pankaj Mishra's piece has been presented here in a concise form that has rendered it wanting in some important aspects. "Of course, those who vote to stay with India should be allowed to come over to the Indian region." is not what I said. What I meant was that Kashmiris voting to stay with India should "bring" their land with them and all that the Pandits lost after they were forced out. The whole idea of the social experiment is to offer an opportunity for Kashmiris to decide, without any fear or pressure, what they want.
P. Paul
Kartarpur, India
Oct 09, 2008 12:00 AM
176
I dont understand who the Bajrang Dal is acting on behalf of. It is said 80% of the country is Hindu. I dispute that number. Of that number 25% are SC (who despise the exploitative tendencies of the religion and would love to convert to other religions if they can save their reservations) and ST's (who were animist and have been hypocritically lured into Hinduism and we are only criticizing the Christians of doing that), 45% OBC's (who again have realized the fallacy of Hinduism and welcomed with open arms the muslims as their true brothers) leaving 10% upper caste Hindus. If even 75% of them be construed as religious then only 7.5% of the population is what the Bajrang Dal represents. The government should ignore them and educate the public of whom they represent.
Vic Sangha
Toronto, Canada
Oct 04, 2008 12:00 AM
175
ganesan

mamta banerjee is the typical bongo- with suicidal instincts. basically bongos are quite happy to idle away their time, sing songs, dance
and make a damned nuisance of themselves.

thank heaven that they are not violent-and dont throw bombs.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
174
On the side, Tatas are out of WB. Mamta Banerjee will end up the big loser in the process. What a dolt she is!!

The timing is ripe for the commies to be kicked out. And here comes this ninnyhammer who makes the commies look good. And that is no small feat.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
173
Hard Facts,

The muslim society being a closed one, might be misleading me regarding the extent of conservative nature in regard to matrimony. I base my conclusion only to the extent I get to see. In any case, isn't it better for the muslims to be more open in their doings if they are really more well-behaved than us hindus? Wouldn't that serve the purpose of Islam, instead of being a closed society in a nation where they form minority?
Chaitanya
Hyderabad, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
172
Hard Facts,

I have seen more hindu couples, both coming from different races, than muslim couples. It is not uncommon in AP where you see people from different castes, falling in love and marrying, even in the background of rampant casteism infesting the state. How many muslim people you know who succeed in marrying such a way?

Don't tell me that hyderabadi muslims of different castes intermarry with ease. It is only exception. You might be right about muslim men selecting their bride based on character, but it is mostly done within constraints of ethnic and caste lines.
Chaitanya
Hyderabad, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
171
Hard Facts,

Why don't Indian Muslims show the way to the rest of how to dissolve differences like caste? Why not a Indian Muslim of Arab ethnicity marry a Madhiga Muslim girl?
Chaitanya
Hyderabad, India
Oct 03, 2008 12:00 AM
170
Hard Facts,

Your "fact" database on ills in Hinduism is exemplary. Why don't you show similar interest in Islam. Is it all paradise.
Chaitanya
Hyderabad, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
169
>>>> Let us start by rubbishing the theory of immaculate conception & virgin mary , followed by creationism . Or Mother theresa becoming a saint as she came in a dream and cured cancer !!

One is absolutely free to do so, and I think it is required to question these.

Please do the honours. Nobody is stopping you from questioning beliefs of christians . right ?
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
168
>>"Wangapad, known for prostitution.
What good was Hinduism for those people?
Given a chance, the Chritians will make them either teachers or nurses"

France is a christian country only. Prostitution has been legalized there.

>>"or the Mulims will give them an ideology to be pious and behave morally."

The 'piety' of mulla-fatwa-based prostitution, dtr-in-law asked to live with f-in-law who raped her!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
167
HF{MBD}:

I would appreciate it if you would kindly stop addressing postings to me. I do not want to discuss anything with someone who sincerely believes that sita had ravan's picture under her pillow in ayodhya.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
166
hard facts

i dont think there is anything against drinking,
sex and drugs. hindus value honesty-not practiced ,as one can see from indias position
in transperency review.

muslims in pakistan drink heavily amongst the well off people, and are the worst in corruption.

forget your sacred texts and try and follow
morals which should be taught in schools.

why do muslims always have to refer to a holy book. you have been following it for centuries.
it has not helped you in any way.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
165
Saba, would recommend that the media uses the power given to it responsibly and not become an instrument of hate. By denoucing an arm of Indian state you are doing just that sowing hatred
vibhaas
Doha, qatar
Oct 02, 2008 12:00 AM
164
Religions are essentially different thoughts which came about at different places at different times and all of them have been invariably influenced by the places where they originated. This has happened in case of all religions regardless of the place where they originated. However, one common strain between all of them is: They all want us to be good human beings and at the same time all the religions try to provide a path to salvation. The differences were are there but they are more because of their place of origin, the circumstances, the geography and social milieu in which they originated. In an era where they were working separately in different geographies, it was fine. Conflicts arose when two or three major religions came together. Like in India. However, this challenge was also dealt by people in one way or the other. People evolved their own local processes by which they could leave peacefully with each other.

Globalisation and the instant transfer of news now places a major challenge to all the religions. The local balances created by the local communities are now falling apart. The different religions have not yet evolved a common milieu. This is resulting in conflicts at global level. This can be finished very quickly if interfaith understanding is fostered ad developed at global level. We all need to understand that essentially all the religions are same at macro level and differences can only be at micro level. We need to understand to interact at macro level. Essentially we are all citizens of same universe and to all of us the same global laws are applicable.
vibhaas
Doha, qatar
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
163
Lalit,

>> " or most loathed of all,muslims". you are really an awfyl lier, and fool in the bargain.

You are truly an idiot! Do you understand anything that you read?



Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
162
faruki

" or most loathed of all,muslims"

you are really an awfyl lier, and fool in the bargain.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
161
Lalit,

>> read yasmin,s article in the independent. she has used the word loathed.

You are such an idiot. Yasmin's article is about anti-immigrant feeling in Britain, and she is condemning the racism of the British youth. The line you picked is from a paragraph on how these British punks victimize immigrant children, especially Muslim children, in playgrounds. Here is what she said:

"Connect these figures and conclusions with other facts we know about the young in Britain and a disturbing profile builds up. They drink more, fight more on the streets, have higher levels of sexually transmitted disease and depression than any other EU country. They will not learn foreign languages and evidence is emerging of the victimisation of children in playgrounds defined as migrants or refugees or, most loathed of all, Muslims. Physical attacks on "foreigners" are going up. Our younger generation is becoming resentful, inward looking, envious, and developing a siege mentality. They cannot even feel an attachment to their European counterparts, the shared history that made the continent."

Talking to you is a waste of time because, as I said before, your bigotry is a disease, not just a different view-point.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
160
faruki

read yasmin,s article in the independent.

she has used the word loathed.

you have described mamy of the ills prevailing in
the hindu society. these are true.

however the middleclass hindus help to balance
the picture, by being extra good in their occupations.

i have thought about this, and believe that you
have hardly any people -writers,philosophers,
entrepeneurs who can improve the picture of muslims. i cant think of more then a handful of
indian muslims whom one can really look up to.

oweisse a muslim mp from hyderabad has complained
that there are no muslim political leaders, those
who come up with anything new, are demonised and beaten up. people who try and modernise muslim society are hunted and perescuted-eg tasleema nasreen, dr sultan etc.

all that muslims are doing now is complaining,
whineing and doing nothing to help themselves.
remember your own dismal opinions of indian muslims.

dr s and i answer you when you say things which
are untrue, and we contradict the blame you put
on the parivar.

i dont know if you have read the report about
muslims in australia. there is a general dislike now for muslims across the world.

i admit that indians in the west can be an embarrasment, but strangely enough indians have
a much better image in the west then muslims.

you are always in the bottom of the class.
the views which people have of pakistan is simply dreadful.

you should debate with europeans and fellow muslims. they may have a different view point.

on the whole hindus are tired of muslims in india. we are tired of your backward attitudes,
your lack of participation, your inability to do well, and your constant whineing.

added to this is your hand in terrorism and anti
national activities.

do you really expect us to admire or like you after all of this.?

i write all of this to give you the way many hindus view you. most hindus are much too polite , but i believe that you deserve to know our inner feelings. i can see that it will not help matter, you will stick to your rigid line.

salman rushdie has written a piece on his book satanic verses. he says he has no regrets for haveing written it.

now he is a courageous man who can think new things on his own.quite different from you.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
159
Stopperbhai,

>> You took the sides of those encountered in Jamia Nagar.

You are the one who blindly accept the versions of the communalism-tainted police, and you have in the past even gone to the extent of supporting fake encounter murders! I only pointed out that sufficient questions have been raised about the Jamia Nagar encounter to justify a thorough investigation carried out by a high level impartial body.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
158
Lalit,

>> yasmins article in the
independent-where she complains that muslims are the most loathed community in britain.

She has never used words like that. Such words would be used by people like you and Seshadri, because you are out to condemn a community, and show it to be somehow inferior, rather than in any intelligent discussion of the problems. If such an attitude is taken in describing the Hindu community, then one would focus exclusively on Bajrangi violence in Gujarat. Orissa and Karnatak, on dowry deaths, female foeticides, refusal of housing to Muslims. communalism in the police forces, police corruption, fake encounter murders, persistence of casteism, continuing atrocities against the Dalits etc etc, but obviously only a very stupid person would think exclusively of such factors to assess the Hindu society, which has a host of progressive elements, secular and liberal traditions, and brilliant writers, artists and scientists. Your obsession with showing the Muslim community as being "bad" is a sickness, and your repeatedly asking me to name Muslim success stories is the height of idiocy and ignorance. I do not answer such stupid questions because if you wanted to find out about Muslim strong points, you could very easily do so yourself. Giving you information and answering your questions will not take care of your problem, which is that you have decided to vilify and demonize a community which does have its share of problems in the solution of which you do not have the slightest interest.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
157
faruki

muslims have lost their minds.

they are being bombed by other muslims, as in pakistan and then takeing it out on the police.

i have suugested that malegaon declare itself a islamic jamhuriat, and stop all nonmuslims from entering.

thereafter they should take responsibility for themselves. no blame games after that.

all right jack.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
156
Malegaon, Sept. 30: Deputy chief minister R.R. Patil didn’t have cheques tossed back at him, but few in Malegaon cared about the Rs 8 lakh he brought for families of each of those killed in last night’s blast.

Such was the anger over the loss of lives that the Maharashtra leader announced the sum at a news conference in the heavily guarded state guesthouse.

Of the Rs 8 lakh, the Congress-NCP state government will pay Rs 5 lakh. The Centre will pay the rest. The 112 injured will get Rs 50,000 each.

After the Shab-e-Barat blasts on September 8, 2006, Shafiq Ahmad, who lost his son, had tossed back a cheque for Rs 1 lakh that Sonia Gandhi offered him days later. He had instead offered her Rs 10 lakh if the Congress-led government arrested his son’s killers within 24 hours.

Hamdani Shakeel Ahmad, a former journalist who owns a shop in Bhiku Chowk, the scene of yesterday’s attack, said: “People know politicians will bend over backwards since elections are close. The hefty compensation is hardly important. It does not solve the problem of terrorism.”

The four dead have been identified as Farheen Shaikh, 8, Shaikh Azhar Abdul 15, Shaikh Rafique, 21, and Mushtaq Ahmed, 30.

Little Farheen, who stayed in a lane close to Bhiku Chowk, had stepped out to buy pakoras when the explosion hit her.

Her father Liyaqat Shaikh was inconsolable. “She wanted to be a doctor,” he sobbed.

Others fumed. “What is the status of Muslims in (Union home minister) Shivraj Patil’s India and R.R. Patil’s Maharashtra? How long will Muslims put up with this?” screamed Syed Asif Ali as Patil arrived at the site.

The anger had spilled onto the streets soon after last night’s blasts, with a missile-hurling mob attacking the nearby Azad Nagar police station.

The assault left 35 policemen injured, including a young IPS probationer, Vrajesh Prabhu, who had to be taken to a Mumbai hospital with severe head injuries.

A constable, Sahebrao Patil, was yanked out of an anti-riot vehicle and beaten up.

Police sources said the mob tried to strangle Patil.

The curfew imposed till this morning in Bhiku Chowk was relaxed and hundreds gathered at Bada Kabrastan — where one of the three bombs had gone off in September 2006 — to bury those killed in last night’s attack.

The motorbike, in which the explosive device was suspected to have been kept, has been found. Forensic expert Dhananjay Mohite said 2 to 3kg of explosives had been used.

Eyewitness Javed Attarwala, in hospital with multiple injuries, said he had spotted the bike around 7pm and had informed Durgah Gate police station.

“I told them I put up my attar (perfume) stall here every day and this bike has cropped up out of nowhere. But the police did not do anything,” he said from his hospital bed.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
155
The Biggest problem with the Hindu hooligans(it is too respectable to call them terrorist or even fundamentalist,since you dont call a rodent a lion)is thier hyprocisy,jealousy,brazenness and above all chronic foolishness to be used and thrown away everytime by the opportunist Sangh pariwar to meet its ant-national political ends.
Pravin Togadia
Mumbai, India
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
154
RAM:>>"Hindu organizations in India should counter the influence of foreign missionaries"

Those who indulge in conversion in ktka, orissa and north-east are NOT foreigners mostly, but the fathers, brothers and nuns from kerala and southern tamil nadu, where conversionist churchianity has become a paid profession for life, funded from transnational churches, young men and women joining the churches, not so much to praise the lord, jesus and mary in church assemblies, but to write and talk outside despicably about hindu gods and goddesses, caste system etc., provoking conversions, offering incentives and so on.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
153
The government should BAN all forceful religious conversions. We have the middle-east oil rich nations sponsoring muslims and we have the vatican sponsoring christian groups to go around the world and 'SPREAD THE MESSAGE' the point is to lure, entice and convert them to increase the numbers and thus have a strength in numbers to exert influence in policies, lifestyle and culture.

Hindustan should have been a Hindu nation and nothing wrong with it, rather, we have a crappy system of being nice and getting screwed in our own home.

I say throw out all these christian missionaries and muslim madarsas, thus eliminating a destabilizing forces. A lot of time and energy is wasted in deal with these inchorent and discordant diversity.

I think Hindustan would be better off sticking with staying close to its characeter. A good example is Yugoslavia - just look at the way the western powers have used and messed it up to their advantage so is the middle-east and so on are the examples.

Hindu organizations in India should counter the influence of foreign missionaries rather neutralize or rather obliterate them from India by adoption proper organization and policy. In fact it is a shame that a christian missionary comes to India from thousands of miles away and screws us while the Hindus can not even spread their religion and philosophy in a small neighboring country...how pathetic is that.

Wake up India....wake up HINDUS...protect your culture and lifestyles ..its more than 5000 years old culture with amazing and wonderful philosophies that make life peaceful..protect it save it and spread it.

Jai Mata di
ram
all purpose lane, India
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
152
faruki

i have referred you to yasmins article in the
independent-where she complains that muslims are the most loathed community in britain.

the same was reported in an article in bloomsberg, from australia.

you should be concerned by what the world in general thinks of you. dr s and i agree with the
general low view of islam and muslims, and we
are honest enough to say so.satyameva jayate
is our motto.

i think its good for the entire world to give
honesty a chance. its better then the hypocritical congress wallahs, who pretend to
like you, for the sake of your votes.

i notice even you have a very low view of the south asian muslim. its said that in harlem a black could call another black a nigger, but woe to a white man who said so.so as hindus we are expected to behave ourselves and not to give
our honest opinion which ofcource you share in private.

pakistani,s now in their media ,despair of fellow
muslims. embassies are closeing their visa offices, and british air has suspended flights.

muslims in india are of the same type as in pakistan. pakistani muslims have ruined the land given them. you indian muslims are no better.

if india was partitioned once again, you would ruin the land given to you.it would become another islamic jamuriat, and i presume that the shahi imam of jama masjid would be its first president.

you yourself are on a wild goose chase trying to find scape goats for the total failure of your
fellow muslims.

in your comments it appears you take killing of muslims ,opression of your women with a grain of salt,as long it is muslims who do it.

but you can inflamed if a bajrangi does it.

like wise the whole terror business has been distorted by you guys. the whole world knows
that it is the muslims who are behind it.
lucky for you,that the police is incompetent, and
can not find the guilty,and if they do,then they can not find legal proof. this gives you a great
opportunity to start blameing the police, forgetting completely that your guys are responsible ie shahubdin,taslimudin- who cares.

this starts the process of nit picking, invention of conspiracy theories to divert attention from your obvious guilt.

this type of nit picking is your only resource.

no one is taken up by it.it adds to our contempt for you.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
151
Seshadri (to Lalit),

>>>> help these people to move abroad.
>> but neither Riyadh and Rome will really encourage it, since their interests are actually for worldwide umma and world-christendum only.

What an ignorant and hate-filled dialogue between the two of you!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
150
M B Puranik, VHP (Karnataka) convenor:>>"Once a Hindu converts, his loyalties shift"

Thus, a religious conversion can become a natonal disadvantage also, especially if the conversion is from hinduism to the catholic church, which has a supra-national status centred in Vatican, forcing the indian citizen to divide his/her loyalties betw Delhi and Vatican, reducing national commitment to india to some extent. It is also noticeable that, even if a grand-kid converts, for any reason, the entire family loses interest in hinduism as such and tends to get more interested in the religion of the future generations of the family, so to say. Hence, the concenttration of the church in education, youngsters in schools and colleges.
In highly devout hindu families, kids are forewarned and resistive to conversion, even if they study in convent scholls. Others could easily succomb. Suppression of conversions, to continue quota benefits, makes matters even more difficult bec of such concealments.

But, since both hinduism and christianity are basically non-violent and spiritualist, their eventual integration at a spiritual level is also possible, if those who now practice conversion as a paid profession start finding other productive professions more remunerative and satisfying, as the country develops fully.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
149
Lalit:>>"the minorities who are unhappy in india,and with us ,have a similar chance.perhaps the bjp govts should help these people to move abroad. any suggestions."

Well, moslems, especially sunny types, should be happy to go to arabia or gulf states [already, pak is planning on holding its cricket league matches in Dubai, for safety reasons], catholic christians in india could move to south american countries if they want. If they are allowed to sell their properties, take the proceeds and leave, they should have no objections, but neither Riyadh and Rome will really encourage it, since their interests are actually for worldwide umma and world-christendum only, altho conflicting eachother. Well, the development demands of the world will ultimately help the survival of only those civilizns which can contribute meaningfully to it. Others will be sidelined and suppressed, until they learn to reform themselves.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
148
AP:>>"Muslims, Hindus join to celebrate Eid, Durga Puja"

Good news. But I am surprised why kumar and rajesh have not yet questioned your statement, saying 'hindus' is too much of a generalizn, can only mean high-caste ones, exclusive of dalits, tribals etc. The latter must still be waiting for help, from churchians only, for celebrating durgaa-pooja; they will be glad to help, of course, provided the dalits and tribals agree to 'refer' to durga as 'mother Mary' only in their worships, but also insist that they are only hindu sc/st, for reservational purposes.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
147
FARUKI

YOU ARE WELCOME TO HATE DR S AND ME.

I COULD NOT GIVE A DAMN.

HOWEVER I DISLIKE THE USUAL MUSLIM TYPES,AND
THIS FEELING WILL REMAIN,WHETHER YOU LIKE HINDUS OR NOT.

WHY IN HELL CANT YOU DO SOMETHING POSITIVE FOR THE DESERVING MUSLIMS, INSTEAD OF DEFENDING SOME
SUSPECTS,WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE GUILTY.

IT SEEMS MUSLIMS BECOME ONLY OF INTEREST WHEN THEY ARE ILLTREATED BY THE PARIVAR.

YOU REALLY ARE A SICK GUY.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
146
AP:>>>"I am not anti-Hindu"

Thank you for the clarification. 'Happy ramzan' to you.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
145
VIBHAAS
DOHA QATAR
04:41:45PM (IST)

IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH YOUR POST OF ABOVE REFERENCE.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
144
Seshadri,

>>>> Lalit "with the feelings faruki has for most of us hindus, and ours for him, there is no earthly chance of creating a indian nation"
>>You are right. The sura [sooti-rakta, productivity-interested] vs asura [asooyaayaam sthira, established in jealousy] mindsets, opposites of eachother.

Your mumbo jumbo notwithstanding, this is a simple case of projection. You two are the ones who are full of anti-muslim hatred, but instead of acknowledging your hatefulness, you want to impute anti-hindu feelings to me. Can you mention even one quote from me that suggests I harbor anti-Hindu feelings? I am admittedly anti-parivar, and do mock your bizarre obscurantism, but I am not anti-Hindu.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
143
HF[madarsas' barking dog]:

Rajaji wrote both ramayana and mahaabhaarata in both english and tamil for tamilo youngsters deprived of sanskrit schooling by divisive brittish rulers and their anti-sanskrit atheistic successors in tamil nadu govts.
Why dont you write one 'keemaayanam' version of raamaayana, showing ravan in best possible way, ram and sita in worst possible forms [from available anti-hindu versions; you can specially mention that ram didnt kill ravan at all; sita cohabited with ravan in lanka; when they were fully satiated with eachother, ravan took sita back in the same viman on which he abducted her and gave her back to ram; ram felt insulted and committed suicide; sitav also did so, in remorse. Hence, no ram-setu was built, no ravan-kill by ram, all only brahmin-concoctions only. Only adam's bridge connects india and lanka, actually built by ravan, an asuric adamogenic himself. rameswaram was only ravaneswaram where ravan used to worship Siva = Alla; crooked brahmins like me renamed as rameswaram; kalam should not be proud to hail from rameswaram., and so on].

You can present a copy of your keemaayanam to TNCM, karunaanidhi in a special function for DMK, held under statue of periar, largely attended by moslems and chr of TN. A senile idiotic brahmin like me, with doctorate in idiocy awarded by AP, can be formally beheaded by veeramani, grandson of periar, under periar-statue, to mark the special occassion. I have lived long enough anyway!.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
142
Seshadri,

>> vermicelli [sewai] is something very vegetarian which is common with despicable brahmins like me also.

Vermicelli is a type of Italian pasta. Muslims cook sevvaiya, a wheat product, which has the appearance of vermicelli, but unlike vermicelli, sevvaiya is a sweet dish.

Happy Durga Puja to you!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
141
AP:>>"traditional vermicelli prepared for Eid,"

vermicelli [sewai] is something very vegetarian which is common with despicable brahmins like me also. Are you not supposed to kill a cow or goat for ramzan, like kumar and rajesh killing turkey for christmas? perhaps you kill goat only for bakr-eid. Well, anyway, happy ramaa-adhaana, [supportive blessings for welfare from the goddess of wealth = laxmi = sita = fatima] for all of you muslims [mukta-sree-maan,liberated welfarists]; Hopefully, 'Hard facts' is not a moslem; otherwise he would NOT have used such severe sarcasm for sita = ramaa = fatima. Neither Allah, nor His messenger will bless him; perhaps, HF may do some introspection on ramzan eid.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Oct 01, 2008 12:00 AM
140
Muslims, Hindus join to celebrate Eid, Durga Puja.

Patna, Sep 30 (IANS) Hundreds of thousands of Muslim and Hindu flood victims in Bihar are supporting each other celebrate Eid and Durga Puja at relief camps.

Muslims are helping the Hindus offer prayers to goddess Durga by sharing their resources, the nine-day religious festival that started Tuesday. Hindus are helping Muslims prepare for Eid, which will be celebrated either Wednesday or Thursday.

"Even in time of distress, Hindus and Muslims are living together and celebrating their festivals together in peace in the relief camps and other temporary shelters. It is an example of understanding each other," said Nitish Mishra, Bihar disaster management minister.

Zahid Ansari, in his 40s, living with his relatives at a relief camp in Saharsa district after the change in the course of the Kosi river made them all homeless, said they would celebrate Eid with the help of Hindus who provided whatever possible and assured they would celebrate the festival together.

"It is not easy to celebrate Eid in relief camps but help and cooperation from others (Hindus) gave us morale boost in time of crisis," said Ansari, once resident of a village in Supaul district.

In another relief camp in Purnea district, Naushaba Khatoon, 30, mother of three children, said her happiness lies in the support she received to buy the traditional vermicelli prepared for Eid, new clothes for children and a new sari for herself.

"We were supported and helped by them (Hindus). They behaved like our relatives. We hardly face any trouble," added Khatoon, who is upbeat after her husband returned from New Delhi a few days ago.

"People, mostly Hindus, are arranging sewai (vermicelli), sweets and dinner for Muslims outside relief camps," said Kamla Prasad, an activist working in Madhepura and Saharsa districts.

As Durga Puja started in various relief camps Tuesday, "a Muslim family gave us some money to purchase essential things for puja from a nearby shop," said Ramesh Sahni, a landless labourer at a relief camp in Saharsa.

Sunita Devi, about 40, was helped by Mohd Shaukat. "Shaukat brought traditional utensils and other items for the puja from my house, risking his life," Sunita said.

The Bihar government had also directed district authorities in flood-hit areas to make special arrangements for Muslims on Eid and Hindus on Durga puja.

Officials in the disaster management department said the government has decided to distribute special food during Eid and Durga Puja. "People will be fed sewai, kheer, puri and aloo dum during the festivals," they said.

Principal secretary of the disaster management department R.K. Singh said "the government had already provided traditional food items like dates, fried flat rice, germinated gram, jaggery, and ghughni for the Muslims who were fasting during Ramadan".

It is estimated that 700,000-800,000 Muslims were badly affected in flood-hit areas, particularly in Araria and Purnea where Muslims account for 40 percent of the population, followed by Madhepura, Supaul and Saharsa districts, where the Muslim population is 15-20 percent.

The Bihar floods have so far claimed over 50 lives officially and affected over 3.2 million people. The Kosi river, sometimes called the 'Sorrow of Bihar', changed course after almost two centuries following a breach in an embankment upstream in Nepal.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
139
Lalit:>>"arab countries could open offices to help muslims move over to their countries."

That would be ideal. But, we are told arab countries do not give citizenship even to long-serving moslem nri. Clearly, they do not want a middle-east umma, but a world-wide UMMA only. well, God has handled worse demonics in the earlier ages. Every Goliath will meet his David in due time.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
138
Sohan:

The question of hindus inducing dalits and tribals into hinduism with offer of food, educ, health did not arise, since the hindus did not consider them as non-hindus in the first place. Besides, Gita forbids any attempts to change anyone's faith and worship of any godhead of any name or form. Krishna says He underwrites all faith-based worships and will respond to all at their levels of perception and guide their growth both materially and spiritually.

Charity is very much part of hinduism. Word economics itself is yagjna-naamee, based on the the concept of yagjna, largescale charity to poor, as part of socialist worship of firegod symbolically, when surplus wealth collected from all over the country was redistributed to the poor. Even recently, the poorvaacharya of kanchi used to divert offerings from rich to the needy poor coming to him on the same day. My own grandpa, as kid, took food in diff houses each day of the week, in schooldays; became diwan of a state later, distributed all his wealth to poor again, died leaving my dad fairly poor!

It has taken some time for hindus realize fully the games played by the churchians on dalits and tribes, latter also taken for a ride. Hence the rss, vhp, bd etc! Besides, the sc,st,mbc,bc are only now realizing the tricks the churchians and mullahs have been playing on them, in collusion with obc dynasticians, blaming it all on manuvad and brahminism. Hindus in UP under maayaavati have broken thro this maayaa! Other states will follow. What is happening in orissa, ktka are only the reactions of the dalits and tribals against the converters and the converted dalits enjoying reservation benefits also, not of the FC hindus! Laxmanananda saraswati was a dalit, who had known what the churchians did to his folk, to gain their conversion, hence his passion to save the dalits and tribals for hinduism! Gave his life in the process. Our mad dog is barking in the wrong direction! In TN etc, the obc-converts now leading the churches are doing social discrimination against dalit converts, on church-floors and assemblies! separate caste-based churches are being demanded!

Truth will triumph, ultimately, even if a lot of people are incapable of seeing it as such. wait and watch.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
137
dr s

what ever is written by faruki, hf,alibaba goes
to prove that something is wrong in their heads.

the same applies to kumar and ganjaboy-ie augustus aaa.

no wonder the minorities are just treading the mill. complaints, excuses and accusations against
brahmins,hindus.

the world is a huge place. most of my family has
moved abroad, and are doing quite well. i never
hear of complaints about americans, america from
them. they seem to become halfway americans.

the minorities who are unhappy in india,and with
us ,have a similar chance.perhaps the bjp govts should help these people to move abroad.

any suggestions.

arab countries could open offices to help muslims
move over to their countries.

europeans will not take indian christians, but the vatican has a number of nuns from kerala
working there. there is always room for more
domestic staff, and ofcource being close to the
holy father is of immense value.

we hindus must do our bit to help people who feel
persecuted-and help them to a better future.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
136
HF/MD:>>"Which fact you want to deny"

"The life of Hindu widows in Mathura: negative exaggerations of some stray phenomena.

"The enormous wealth of the temples: a few temples only; current reality is that hindu temples' incomes in most states are being exploited by local politicians, even atheists, while churches and mosques are left in full secular freedom, besides appeasement of addl burial ground allottments, good pay from govts for urdu and madarsa teachers, and so on.

"clout of the Brhamins in all political parties including congress. -- a pre-sonia phenomenon.

"The Ramayana story of Sita hiding the portrait of Ravana.- your ravanaayana imaginations.
I shudder to think of the price you will personally pay, whoever you may be, for the statement you have made; a fate worse than what ravana himself received! I am afraid even my prayers cannot save you. Pray to your own ishTa-devataa, anyway.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
135
sohan

are you really in rockville, usa

a more appropriate for you would be azamgarh.

dont write such crap. i feel sorry for such a
person like you. how low can you sink.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
134
Roadmap for Hindus regarding Islam

"moderate" Quradawi//If we let Shiites penetrate Sunni societies, the outcome won't be praiseworthy. The presence of Shiites in Iraq and Lebanon is the best evidence of instability."

Qaradawi is a prominent moderate cleric, but he has grown skeptical of Shiite intentions. Two years ago he suggested that Shiites were using the mystical Sufi order of Islam as a cover to penetrate Sunni society. His most recent volleys undercut efforts by Islamic leaders to ease religious tensions, and raise questions about his motivations. Much of the funding for Qaradawi's Qatar-based media enterprises comes from Sunni nations uneasy over Iran's widening influence in the Persian Gulf.
Abul-Fazel Amoee, an Iranian political scientist, said Qaradawi had become an instrument of anti-Shiite propaganda orchestrated by Sunni royals. He said this parallels the "deep rivalry between Saudi Arabia and the Islamic Republic of Iran, and the stage of this competition or ideological battle today is the field of Iraq."



Roadmap for Hindus regarding Islam

"moderate" Quradawi//If we let Shiites penetrate Sunni societies, the outcome won't be praiseworthy. The presence of Shiites in Iraq and Lebanon is the best evidence of instability."

Qaradawi is a prominent moderate cleric, but he has grown skeptical of Shiite intentions. Two years ago he suggested that Shiites were using the mystical Sufi order of Islam as a cover to penetrate Sunni society. His most recent volleys undercut efforts by Islamic leaders to ease religious tensions, and raise questions about his motivations. Much of the funding for Qaradawi's Qatar-based media enterprises comes from Sunni nations uneasy over Iran's widening influence in the Persian Gulf.
Abul-Fazel Amoee, an Iranian political scientist, said Qaradawi had become an instrument of anti-Shiite propaganda orchestrated by Sunni royals. He said this parallels the "deep rivalry between Saudi Arabia and the Islamic Republic of Iran, and the stage of this competition or ideological battle today is the field of Iraq."



hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
133
HF:

No facts associated with your postings, hard or soft. " mad barking dog" or 'madarsa dog' would be a more appropriate name for you, while making such hindu-hatred postings. kindly consider.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
132
sohan

no one glorifies sati in india, as far as i know.

the last sati took place about 30 years ago.
which back woods do you come from.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
131
sohan

you obviously dont know much about india.

the arya samaj in delhi is running a few free schools- maybe about 4-5.

they provide nearly free medical treatment to
the poor.

sunil bharati mittal is opening schools in a
1000 villages.

ms naraynamurthy has a wefare scheme whic gives free meals to school children every day.

a lot of the profits from tata,s go to public welfare.

rotary,lions club are doing good work.

the problem is that the problems are immense, and
india is an awfully poor country.

all indians livein abroad should help some poor people in india. i do a bit myself, and i am
sure that rich indians in india and abroad will
chip in as well.

the missionaries are behaveing a louseing thing
by converting people in exchange for services.
this is not a honourable way to do things.

i would admire them if they operated in muslim countries. india is a soft target for all the snake oil salesmen in the world.

maybe these southern state missionaries would
come to europe. europeans have more or less
discarded religion.

christmas in denmark is all about what to eat and drink, presents for the kids.

my grand kids know a bit about santa claus-but
not about christ.

lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
130
extremely patchy article written with lot of bias already in the head. The writer should be balanced and present both sides of story rather than relying on some qoutes here and then out of context. these articles lead to more polarisation
vibhaas
Doha, qatar
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
129
On conversion
Tribal and Dalit who embrace Christianity do so result of monetary and, though, perceived gains. Hindus have money. There are 850 Million Hindus who live in India. Fifty Paisa per head would raise sufficient amount to counteract the monetary offered by the missionaries.

Hindus can gain advantage over the missionary outfits if they were to offer even half of the social uplift the Tribal and Dalits perceive getting from being Christian.

Religion or food on the table and education to the children; your choice!

Wish there were more missionaries and more money they could afford to educate the poor. Hindus will never open their wallet and can never think of socially interacting with the segment at the bottom of the social ladder.
sohan
rockville, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
128
On Satis, real or fake

Those who glorify Sati in the name of Hindu religion have lost it. Hindus, though, want their women milky pure; did not Sita undertake agni-priksha to prove that the devil Ravana did not molest her physically or mentally? She walked through fire willingly, of course!
sohan
rockville, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
127
Well let's stop dividing people in the name of relegion. Articles like this should be banned.
For a start all conversions should be banned in India and India ashould stop becoming a ground for powerplay between relegions.


What is religion and why do we practice it? Essentially for some form of peace. Then why are all religions fighting against each other? Why this one-upmanship. This is because religion is also about power. If one looks through histories of all religions, the "priests" or their equivalent have been used by the ruling class to gain power over the populace. This is something by which one can easily get people behind a cause. The "Priest" just has to say your religion is in danger and all followers will just line up to prevent that. They will go to any extent even kill others or sacrifice themselves. This power is known to all the "priests" and that is why this race to convert others into their own religion. Islam wants to expand. Christianity wants to expand. Hinduism and Buddhism at this point in time are quite old and mature and hence have foregone this overt expansionist trends. Expansion of Christianity will help the western powers as the centre of Christianity lies there and they can tune people into their way of life and subjugate them. Same is for others like Islam. All this results in conflicts. Many wars have been fought in the name of religion. Essentially rather than joining people religion becomes a source of conflict when it should be a source of comfort and happiness and peace. Hence for countries like India which are multi faith? It is extremely important to reduce all the possible points of conflict. Religious conversions are an important point of conflict and Government of India should immediately pass on a bill to ban all form of religious conversions with immediate effect.


we need to ask ourselves is which are the indegenous relegions of India and which represent our civilisation: They are Hinduism, Budhism, Jainism, Sikhism. These were based on Indian ethos and spread everyhwere by Indians without any war. Large part of South East Asia still follows Budhism. This represent the thought of an Indian accepted by others and greatness of our civilisation. Now what do Islam and Christianity represent. They are relegions from outside India. One gets its source of inspiration from Vatican(largely) and other from Saudi Arabia. Why they came to India. They came largely as we became subservient to outside powers. They represent outside powers in India. Islam gets huge amounts of funding and insiration from outside India mainly from Middle East. It gets its thought process from outside India. This leads to confrontations. Some part of it is represented by Terrorism.

Christianity again came into India largely as a reprentative of a foriegn ruling power. Even today it gets sustenance from outside funds. Again this leads to confrontation.

Both these external streams(represent a thought process which wants to rule us and make us servants to their thought process. This is something which is not good for India if it has to be recognised as a great power and a great civilisation.

It is my appeal to everybody of all faiths in India, that we all will be losers in long run by promoting any faith in India which makes us subservient to others. In long run our grandchildren will ask us why couldn't prevent this onslaught and preserve our great civilization.

I would request all of you who support this to immediately put pressure on government of India to stop conversions. A large amount of public pressure is required. Let all Indians and Indian origin people in the world join our hands together to accomplish this. It is important to remove conflict and for us to think as Indians only and forget about religious identities.


vibhaas
Doha, qatar
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
126
Lalit:>>"with the feelings faruki has for most of us hindus, and ours for him, there is no earthly chance of creating a indian nation"

You are right. The sura [sooti-rakta, productivity-interested] vs asura [asooyaayaam sthira, established in jealousy] mindsets, opposites of eachother, the divinity-bound vs the demon-driven, as described in the XVIth chapter of the Gita, seems to be the separation betw us and faruqi. Any concept considered profoundly spiritual for hindus appears only equally despicable to him. No meeting ground seems possible. One group blessed by the kindly divine light, the other taken over by the prince of darkness. God must have His reasons for what is happening. Let us leave it to Him.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
125
Stopperbhai,

>> is it necessary to defend your Jihadi brothers who are killing the innocents.

Is it necessary for you to comment on posts that you are too dense to understand?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
124
"Hindus need to remember their history under Islam: Nearly 80 million killed." Hindu

"Seems all hate pracharaks have to be liars!" Ghulam Faruki

You can't face the TRUTH of Theocratic Fascism

hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
123
Stopperbhai,

>> after 9/11 that in India too they can strike anywhere and anytime.

I don't know which of my comments you are referring to. Does not sound like anything that I may have said.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
122
>>>Minority suppression is a bogus claim.

ofcourse it is. if a girl is raped and she belongs to a dalit community the title all over the newspapers would be "dalit girl dragged and raped" as if dragging and raping is uncommon.

while on the other hand if a dalit commits a crime you won't even see it on any paper.
ashok krihnamoorthy
columbia, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
121
Seshadri,

>> Those are the real 'satis'.

So now you are going to create real satis and false satis in order to continue your lie!

>> beaf-eater moslems like you, for whom marriage is only an oral commercial contract.

Your mind is full of hate and filth.

>> No wonder you despise hinduism in general and 'sati', in particular.

Not only are you a despicable liar, you are one of the rare Hindus who this day and age finds excuses to defend sati.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
120
Seshadri,

>> Siidiqui switched from SP to BSP overnight. This is political terrorism only.

Calling a Muslim a terrorist seems very easy for you, even if you come up later with lame reasons for doing so.

>> most criminal politicians, contesting elections even from jails, in UP and Bihar, seem to be only moslems.

You are a liar besides being an idiot.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
119
Hindu/Bodepudi,

>> Hindus need to remember their history under Islam: Nearly 80 million killed.

Seems all hate pracharaks have to be liars!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
118
faruki-dr s

this debate will never end.

with the feelings faruki has for most of us hindus, and ours for him, there is no earthly chance of creating a indian nation or a wonderful
liberal democracy.

i think we ought to reduce the size of our ambitions. india will never be a great country.
it will be hindus against muslims, christians and
perhaps the sikhs as well.

i am gratified by foreigners saying that hindus are a peaceful and tolerant community. this is not the impression one gets from the indian media

according to the secular media we are hateful, intolerant and violent.

the muslims and christians are the poor victims.
it is the bajrangis who are behind the terror.
christians are being targeted even though they
are doing their best for us.- by converting us to their faith.

good heavens. what a mad house india is.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
117
AP:>>"Fifty and sixty year old widows were chased by the sultans? Sati was reported by Greek ambassadors in India centuries before Christ."

Those are the real 'satis' for whom 'temples' were built, voluntarily opting to leave the world with their husbands, marriage considered a spiritual union, one life in two bodies, wife often collapsed on dead husband's body, following the example of daakshaayiNi, who selfburnt, the first 'sati', once she knew she could not get back to Siva, after daksha insulted her at his yagjna.

Well, beaf-eater moslems like you, for whom marriage is only an oral commercial contract, orally talaq-able, will not understand the concept of marriage as a spiritual union. Devout christians might, since Jesus, spiritually, is only skanda, son of Shiva. No wonder you despise hinduism in general and 'sati', in particular. But, forced sati on young widows were mainly bec of sultans' harems.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
116
AP:>>"Are you saying that Shahid Siddiqui is a terrorist?"

When Amar Singh switched over to support MMS on nuke-vote, Siidiqui switched from SP to BSP overnight. This is political terrorism only.

>>" Are you implying that all Muslims are terrorists?"

Despite your rhetoric, most criminal politicians, contesting elections even from jails, in UP and Bihar, seem to be only moslems.

>>"It seems that senility has destroyed your mind and left you a total idiot.

Only idiots call others idiots.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
115
"Consider some basic facts that have been part of the public discourse in the last few weeks" Saba Naqi

Please explain what the Indian governments had done regarding the following list of temples destroyed in Kashmir.
Temples desecrated, damaged and/or shut down in Kashmir from 1990 to December 1992
1. DASHNAMI AKHARA, SRINAGAR
2. GANPATYAR TEMPLE
3. RAGHUNATH MANDIR, SRINAGAR
4. SHIVA TEMPLE , JAWAHAR NAGAR, SRINAGAR
5. HANUMAN MANDIR, SRINAGAR
6. SHIVA TEMPLE , BARBAR SHAH, SRINAGAR
7. JAI DEVI TEMPLE , BIJBEHARA
8. VIJESHWAR TEMPLE , BIJBEHARA
9. SHIVA MANDIR, BIJBEHARA
10. RAGHUNATH TEMPLE , ANANTNAG
11. GAUTAM NAG TEMPLE , ANANTNAG
12. THREE TEMPLES OF LUKHBHAVAN, LARKIPURA, ANANTNAG
13. WANPOH MANDIR, ANANTNAG
14. SHAILPUTRI TEMPLE , BARAMULLA
15. DAYALGAM MANDIR, ANANTNAG
16. BHAIRAVANATH MANDIR, BARAMULLA
17. BHAIRAVANATH MANDIR, SOPORE
18. RUPABHAVANI MANDIR, VASAKURA
19. KHIRBHAVANI MANDIR, GANDERBAL
20. SHIVA TEMPLE , GANDERBAL
21. MATTAN TEMPLE , ANANTNAG

There have been reports of further destruction of some 39 temples in Kashmir after December 6, 1992 for which FIR were filed. Please note that FIRs on all destruction cases were not filed with the authorities in view of the complicity of the administration and warnings of retaliation against the complainants by the Islamic terrorists.

These examples represent only a fraction of the systematic mass destruction of thousands of temples in J&K after independence of India when the Islamists assumed the total and unfettered control of the state.

Hindus need to remember their history under Islam: Nearly 80 million killed, directly or indirectly, by the Muslim fanatics-destruction of tens of thousands of temples, unprecedented rapacity and plunder, most inhumane pogroms at Ayodhya, Dwaraka, Somanatha Temples, Nalanda genocide, Hindu Kush genocides, Sindh genocides, ad infinitum-by the Ghaznis, Ghoris, Nadir Shahs, Aurangazebs, etc etc

Please explain, in detail, before writing any further posts on topics you either do not fully know of, or ignoring deliberately
hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
114
Kumar:

I think, as civilized citizens of the 21st century world, prople like you and PBMehta should agree that relig-propagation should be confined only to telling good things about one's own creed, not telling false wrongs on others', provoking violent reactions, especially among the young amd emmotionals of the affected sects. In fact, secular govts must pro-act as watchdogs, by themselves, on provocative cartoons, pamphlets, books desparaging any religion and stop their circulations, even preventively, to avoid unnecesary conflict situations. All religions do have good aspects to talk about. Writers should try to concentrate only on those, about one's and others' religions. Slowly, the negative features in all religions may fall into disuse, all relig may even get unified as one relig of man under God.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
113
LALITMB
KALUNDBORG DENMARK
05:37:22PM (IST)

In full agreement with your post of above reference.

The PM in france should not have admitted that 'christians' are attacked hindus in india and called it a shame. True chr are only respected by all hindus in india. Those under attack are only the churchians trying conv with false tales on hindu gods and the incentively converted dalits trying to run away with reserv benefits meant only for dalit-hindus as affirmative action.

Quite a bit of this rogue action is really being stage-managed, from idol-breaks to arch-bishop's comments, only to provoke opposition to the civilian nuke deal for india in both USA and EU. Like the jislamists, the churchians like karats, rajas and Roys want india to remain in underdeveloped state only, until hindus are all converted or conquested. Development can wait until the papal harvest is first accomplished.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
112
Lalit,

>> you are most of the time defending the muslim community in india.

Should I leave that task to you?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
111

http://forums.bharat-ra...hp?f=1&t=4336&start=480


Great discussion going on about Hindu liberals
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Sep 30, 2008 12:00 AM
110

India in 2008 is being ruled by Minorities.

1. Sonia Gandhi - White Christian - Political Head of the ruling government

2. Manmohan Singh - a Sikh - Prime Minister of India

3. Mayawati - Dalit - Chief Minister of the largest state of India

4. Karuna Nidh - Dalit - Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, one of the SIX states that determine the Central government formation in India

5. Y S R Reddy - Christian convert - Chief Minister - Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh, one of the SIX states that determine the Central government formation in India

6. Achuthananthan - MBC candidate - Chief Minister of Kerala, a Model state of India

Minority suppression is a bogus claim.
Zak
NY, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
109

Dear India-

Bring up the infrastructure in the country and fix the system errors in governance. Indians can throw up their foreign jobs and come back to India, if you do these two. The world will come knocking at your doors. India can dictate its terms.

India Inc as a nation, can marekt its strength and sell its resources - People. No where in the world, one can get a quality work at the cheapest rate as Indians do. That's called efficiency.

Indians can live in India with their own traditions, cultures, customs, cinema, and music.

If we continue to do so, Indian currency will perform better than the GREEN BAG and the world currencies will be traded against the Indian currency. Indian currency can be the common trading currency as in the past in Asia.

It's very much possible, if there's a political will....
Zak
NY, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
108
Kumar>>
"However, if a writing is inciting/provoking for communal/caste/class/regional violence and taking law into own hands, I think government can get involved to ban, prohibit etc."

Does this imply to Islam and Koran??
ashok krihnamoorthy
columbia, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
107
Bagai,
"like the traditional house wife in india, the hindus prepare the meals and eat last."

isko kahte hain nichli handi pe lathi marna...meaning u hit thepot on the bottom, rest will break when all fall down...meaning abso bloody lutely mate!! excellently put!!


Kiran Bagachi
mumbai, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
106
saba

can one imagine a demonstration with banners saying

"killing of kashmiri hindus and their expulsion is a national shame."

ofcource not.

like the traditional house wife in india, the hindus prepare the meals and eat last.

muslims according to mms have the first priority.

then come the sikhs and christians.

hindus are the last, because most secular parties think ,that they would get caste votes,so why bother about the hindu middleclass.

this class has always sat on its butt dureing elections, giveing away the victory to the secular casteist parties, and the communists.

sikhs give little to hindus in punjab.

kashmiri muslims have kicked out the pandits.

christians are given enormous political power
in the central cabinet, and sonia looks after her flock else where as well. jogi a thoroughly corrupt guy, who plotted to kill a political rival got her support. her secretary another sleazy guy framed for corruption is a christian.

reddy a christian is cm of andhra pradesh.

so what are christians bitching about now. simple.they want to save the pagan hindus from perdition. what infernal impudence-and much of this is due to the confidence because of sonias position.

i am for the best men getting the jobs,never mind their religion, corporates follow this concept.

however this meanness of minorities is obvious and unacceptable. sure as hell there will be a
back lash.

harendra bawajas reactions have some thing to do with her sikh religion. same goes for tehelka.
a bunch of khalistani,s dressed in the glad rags of secularism.

any one however dumb gets immediate attention when on the favourite secular pass time of witch hunting of hindus.some of these secularists are agnostics, but its mind boggling how comfortable they are with with the religious crack pots amongst the minorities.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
105
faruki

you are most of the time defending the muslim community in india.

however you have at times said.

"The fotress of Islam is in the hands of extremists. The liberals are nascent. The moderates are silent"

At other times you have said. " There are just a few doctors,lawyers and engineers, the rest drive
rick shaws,"

Again" It will take a hundred or two hundred years for Islam to catch up with the rest "

How can you defend mulimsand hold these views at the same time.

Be honest and admit, that muslims in India are
a crazy fanatical lot, unable to distinguish right from wrong, ignorant and are a
big mill stone wrt Indias progress.

Danish antiimmigrant politicians have called muslims a threat to Europe and asked for their expulsion. These Danes are well educated people, and normally moderate and well balanced.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
104
kumar

just inform us of the number of christians killed in the last 60 years.

you guys could live pea´cefully if you were like the parsis, and jews.

missionary activites are disliked in india,
i would respect you if you sent the moronic souther christian missionaries to pakistan.

you should be sensible, and just let go of your
idiotic conversion attempts.other wise expect trouble.

if you are on a rail track and see a train comeing would you stay put, if you believe jesus said so.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
103
bindu tandon

i am happy to know that you are some what appreciative of my views, the same as faruk

i believe strongly that one has to be a middleclass hindu , to be an indian nationalist.
nehru was such a nationalist, and jinnah was not. patriotism is taught in schools and homes.. it can not be enforced.


i would go so far to say,that whilst all hindus
are not nationalists, few amongst the minorities
are. the muslims in india would have preferred
a govt with a islamised flavour rather then a
indian nationalist state. the christians would rather be governed by sonia gandhi, the british,
rather then any indian govt with even a slight
hindu mindset.

it all depends in who you are. we all have a separate wish list.divali for hindus, a white christmas for kumar, and bakra eid for
faruki

the romantics have tried desparately tried to
construct an indian , useing the various pieces
of a jig saw puzzle, which do not fit.

i say to hell with it all. lets not try and
enforce nationalism on any one at all. let
the hindus who want get hinduised states such as himachal pradesh,and uttarkhand.

let kashmiri muslims join pakistan. bengal can
go its separate way, because there are few who
feel that they are hindus there.

muslims in india, and perhaps christians as well are concentrated in certain areas. they should
be given semiautonomous status, and leave hindus
well alone.

muslims especially want to have it both ways.
live and think like a muslim nation, and quote
the virtues of secularism and democracy to us.

for heavens sake,put an end to this hypocracy.
we are hindus,muslims,christians first and perhaps indians as a second,third or fourth choice. india is an artificial construction, and only the hindu religion has kept it togather.

by the way many north eastern states are largely christian. it seems to work. the same could be tried with muslims. muslims as it happens live apart from others. all that is needed is official
acceptance.

welcome to the republics of azamgarh, jamianagar,
hyderabad, malegaon.

most practical would be for the hindu majority states under bjp rule to form a confederation.
the people in this state will hopefully have no objection to stand up and sing the national anthem for starters.

The christians can sing "God save the Queen"
and the muslims not sing at all.

Freedom at last.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
102
Seshadri,

>> How about the new-life conversion gang publishing dirty tales on hindu gods?. They are most welcome to your mind

I do not know the content of what is written there, but I will agree with what Pratap Bhanu Mehta wrote: "it is fatuous to think that the public sphere can be expunged of all representations of religion that its adherents might find offensive". In all democratic societies one will find writings that may be found as offensive/insulting to religious beliefs. However, if a writing is inciting/provoking for communal/caste/class/regional violence and taking law into own hands, I think government can get involved to ban, prohibit etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
101
The writer knows or should know that the security establishment is a part of the general Indian public which has a hidden bias against the muslims and there are historical reasons behind it.And the history is too recent to be forgotten.And muslim reactions in all this chaos are not at all helping.For a common Indian muslim his religion is above his nation in his order of priorities.
The situation is going from bad to worse and some muslims don't mind it at all,they perhaps welcome it.There does not seem to be any hope for the India that we want see emerging as world leader.
The cracks are already visible and they will get deeper every day.The Secularists cannot do any thing.The Bajrang Dals cannot do anything.We will not be alive to see it but India is again going to be partitioned.The trend is unstoppable.
K.C.Sharma
Delhi, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
100
Thanks to Saba for reminding us that how bad VHP/BD is and how they are taking us to total anarchy. However, this is the same topic that every other print or television media is discussing. What is missing here is the discussion of growing fanaticism in Muslim youths.
I want to remind the author that the people who are criticizing the Hindu zealots are predominantly Hindus. On top of it, they are not blaming (finding excuses) any other community while abhoring VHP/BD. Moreover, VHP/BD are somewhat political organizations with offices and known faces. So, if Ms Saba or some people have something against VHP/BD they can contact them or can conduct peaceful protest against them.
Unfortunately, people like me doesn't even know who to criticize for these recent merciless killings by Muslim zealots. I used to think that there are both extremist and moderate voices in Islam. However, the so called moderate voices like Saba or Shabana Azmi are completely indulged in blame game against hindus rather than keeping their own house right. Thus, the one section , the so called moderates, are implicitly supporting IM while extremist are supporting it explicitly.
Since there is no division of moderates vis a vis extremist in Islam, I've no other option left and will have to blame the whole Muslim community for the recent terrorist activities against our Motherland.
Saurabh Sharma
Raleigh, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
99
Lalit MB of Denmark wrote the most important and sad and saddening article in all the responses here:
He wrote"if i was in trouble i would never call the police in india"
He wrote "I know from denmark. the life of one dane is worth more then a thousand indian christians .Muslims do not even figure anywhere".
"so if muslims complain, its more because they are more vulnerable. they dont have the net work".

Can we stop beating the shits out of the so called Hindus, please? It is not the Hindus stupid, it is the Indians that are a problem. The Muslim intellectual is as foolish as the Hindu one only more defensive. The Christians unhappily can now join the chorus of protest. We make Babel look good.
And it must be said "Our media is the silliest goose of all....think Rajdeep, think Aaj Tak...gag gag.
Stupid Hindu politicians give undue credence to stupid conspiracy theories aginst them and against other communities.

Why dont they realise that we are the problem and there is no significant other by religion only by misfortune.
If we were to drop community specific allegations from the discourse and look at the crime and crimminal and yes take appropriate action the schisms that seem to be growing would perhaps begin to heal.

But the alphabet soup of politicians are waging war against each other throught the terrorists gun and guess what, we, you and me and everyman and every woman are the victims.

Where are leaders who can take us from this bloody darkness?

Why ,elsewhere making money or staying calm and peaceful!

If only real life was a film script, Salim & Javed would have sorted it out.. And ofcourse Mahesh Bhatt would be out of business!

Mutter mutter, gnnhh...gnhhh. Godd night guys, the circular arguments are dizzying and most of you have made up your minds in any case!




Bindu Tandon
Mumbai, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
98
Kumar:>>"Islamist terrorism is probably the most dangerous/lethal, but we can do without the likes of BJP/VHP/RSS/Bajrangdal"

How about the new-life conversion gang publishing dirty tales on hindu gods?. They are most welcome to your mind, which already assumes india's total harvest into christendom is only a question of short time. Hence, for you, majority hindus developing hindutva values is also only a divisive force, to be eliminated along with the islamist terrorism, to facilitate a united and quick march of india into christendom.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
97
>> While many in the BJP are known to believe in the “all Muslims may not be terrorists, but all terrorists are invariably Muslims” dictum, the former BJP president said: “Muslims opted for India out of their love for this land during Partition. Arguments like these don’t do justice to them at all.”

Such statements are made every now and then so that the secular/devout/traditional hindu constituency does not turn against them and to keep the constituency guessing.
The simple fact is that the BJP would hardly have any interest in the subject of terrorism if not for the 'Muslim' angle in it. You will never see the BJP interested in any terrorism, innocent killings, dalit atrocities, riots etc unless a killing has a possible involvement of suspected Muslim groups (in which case they will jump up and down as if they are the only ones 'serious'). Indeed, Islamist terrorism is probably the most dangerous/lethal, but we can do without the likes of BJP/VHP/RSS/Bajrangdal who want to play with it to exploit it for a pre-conceived communal/anti-humanist agenda.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
96
"former BJP president said: “Muslims opted for India out of their love for this land during Partition. Arguments like these don’t do justice to them at all.”

ANWAR PATEL

This proves BJP is not anti-Muslims.
Khushi Ram
ambala cantt, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
95
New Delhi, September 29: In a change of heart, which may surprise many, senior BJP leader M Venkaiah Naidu has slammed those linking Terror with religion, arguing that the commonsensical use of terms like “Islamic terrorism” ends up strengthening stereotypes. “Terrorists have no religion. Islam, like all other religions, doesn’t sanction violence. The usage of term ‘Islamic terrorism’ in everyday parlance, as also in the media, however, conveys something entirely different,” he told 'The Indian Express'.

While many in the BJP are known to believe in the “all Muslims may not be terrorists, but all terrorists are invariably Muslims” dictum, the former BJP president said: “Muslims opted for India out of their love for this land during Partition. Arguments like these don’t do justice to them at all.”
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
94
Why is the Indian state so quick to anoint an Italian with no background as an extra constitutional authority with an oversight over the PM?
Why is the Indian state so eager to provide funding for Hajj pilgrimage or pilgrimage to Jerusalem but not for Kashi yathra?
Why is the Indian state so eager to practice minorityism?
Why does the Indian state give the Christian missionaries unfettered access to convert? Why do they allow the missionaries to destroy the peace and harmony in Indian communities? (Even the Pope complained against the Baptist missionaries from N. America 25 years ago because they were aggressively trying to convert Latin America to Protestantism. Christ is Christ right(?) from the viewpoint of Catholics and Protestantism. Why are the two wings of Christianity so biased and parochial? And these missionaries claim that it is their God given right to exploit divisions in India.)
Why does the Indian state not give the Pandits in Kashmir any rights?
Why does the Indian state under health minister Ramadoss so willing to violate the Supreme Court ruling? Is he above the law?
Why is the Indian state not protecting the innocent people from terrorists? There is another attack in
Delhi.............................................
.............................

Is it that few blind male and female sycophants run Indian government?

(It is obvious that the Congress led government has lost total control of the situation. Law and order is totally lacking under Sonia’s helm. She does not know a diddly-squat about the dynamics of managing a diverse country like India.
Saba Naqvi should be blaming the minority loving Congress government and not the Sangh or anyone else. They are the enforcers of law. Why have they failed all the people of India? This article is divisive but it sells papers.)
Priya Madhavan
Rochester, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
93
Hindu/Bodepudi,

>> "The widow-burning by hindus was largely to save them from the sultan-harems."
>>"Sati" was self-immolation by wifes after watching the theocratic fascists kill their husbands.

Liar! Sati predates both Islam and Christianity.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
92
Hindu/Satya/Bodepudi,

>> There were dozens of posts using different names, attributed to me.

You have used dozens of different names in order to deceive the posters and the administrators. You are a slippery character.


Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
91
Hindu/Bodepudi,

>> Incurable, unfortunately.

Your cretinism? Yes, I agree.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
90
Seshadri,

>> The widow-burning by hindus was largely to save them from the sultan-harems.

The lies of sanghi historians! Fifty and sixty year old widows were chased by the sultans? Sati was reported by Greek ambassadors in India centuries before Christ.

>> The despicable caste system has been the main reason for hinduism alone surviving the inslamic onslaughts.

You will support the oppressive caste system too! You seem to have no shame.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
89
Quick bloody more than dozen blast after we nabbed someone.. and anyone who comares an unsocial element to those who park bombs in children park has to be nuts....

and yes even muslim rioters get awaya easily too bad that's india;s screwed up law.. please don't try to compare terrist who blow unknonw starangers in order to put a point across to usual unsocial element
Rahul
Delhi, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
88
Should read "wives", below
hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
87
"The widow-burning by hindus was largely to save them from the sultan-harems."

"Sati" was self-immolation by wifes after watching the theocratic fascists kill their husbands through treachery and deceit-following the Koranic injunction: "kill the Infidels".

Sati & dowry etc were not religiously sanctioned-though reprehensibleand abominable. But this was internal-unlike the Islamic theocratic facism that genocidally killed 80 million Hindus, according to some estimates, in their own land!
hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
86
You are not just a hate pracharak but a fraud. "You tried to post in this forum using my ID. You are like a juvenile delinquent!" Ghulam Faruki

There were dozens of posts using different names, attributed to me. It must be you, now I know!

hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
85
"Thanks also for admitting that islamic societies also have defects, diseases requiring cure."

Incurable, unfortunately

hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
84
AP to Lalit:>>"If a community which burned its widows and had a despicable caste system can be reformed, it means that nobody is incurable. "

The widow-burning by hindus was largely to save them from the sultan-harems.

The despicable caste system has been the main reason for hinduism alone surviving the inslamic onslaughts, in india, while persia's zoroaustianism and gandhara's buddhism got eliminated completely.

Thanks for your perception that india's hinduism has been reformed of its caste system, altho not true. It has only been amplified as caste-creed-perceived reservationism from birth certficates, kindegarten admissions to post-graduate programs.

Thanks also for admitting that islamic societies also have defects, diseases requiring cure.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
83
Stopperbhai,

>> whats wrong if Modi is concerned about the Gujarathis alone.

Again you did not understand what my post was about. Do you understand anything at all?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
82
Hindu/Bodepudi,

>> Hate Pracharak = One who tells TRUTH.

Figures!!! You are not just a hate pracharak but a fraud. You tried to post in this forum using my ID. You are like a juvenile delinquent!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
81
Lalit,

>> if pakistani muslims are incureable so are indian muslims.

If a community which burned its widows and had a despicable caste system can be reformed, it means that nobody is incurable. You just keep repeating the same asinine mantras again and again and again!

Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
80
Tatas Blunders re: Nano

1. Chose W. Bengal to locate his Nano plant in spite of WB being notorious for unruly workers and wicked Govt.
2. The reason : extract a whole bunch of subsidies ( free land, cheap electricity, no taxes , ) to keep costs down and hit the Rs 1 lakh target
3. Insisting on Singur as the only suitable location, when there were other locations ( like Kharagpur, where Tata already makes the bearings for their cars ) just as well connected ( road - rail - air ) but with a lot more land available than at fertile Singur ( the only problem -- closer to Tatas Jamshedpur plant with which the Poona wallahs in control of Nano have been feuding )
4. Demanded 1,000 acres and not an acre less at Singur and designed a very expansive plant as if they were going to build heavy trucks ! Could have compressed a plant for 1 million per year Nanos into just 300 acres if they had only learned from Japanese micro car makers ( e,g. the Daihatsu plant in ancient & congested Kyoto ).
5. They never gave a damn about the people of Singur while claiming to build a people's car ! Just a couple 100 crore Rs would have smoothed things over. Tata had paid billions extra to get Corus or Jaguar / Land Rover and even grovelled in front of their Worker Unions. No such considerations for mere Indians from Mr. Big Time Parsi tycoon Ratan !!

Hope recent succTata's ego has not gotten too out of line.
Gaurav
Santa Fe, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
79
gaurav

i thought that you were a red blooded american by now, haveing discarded your bongo
inheritance.

i admire you for being a rude, loud mouthed
texas rancher. stick to whats best.

bengal, my friend is a gonner.mamata could be a star in any second rate circus.

and i am happy you are out of the mess.

will be happy to see you here , and bring the
jack daniels, and some cubanas,

dont fret lad.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
78
Lalit :

It is none of your goddamn business where Tata decides to set up his Nano plant - nor are you qualified to opine on WB, when like the typically Punj BONEHEAD ( had enough of your sort at St Columbas ) your analytical abilities leave much to be desired. For a feudal Punj like you that still licks British boots ( admires Churchill ! ) to get ahead in life ( loads of them in UK and Canada ) it is only too natural to fail to see how Ratan was trying to exploit the fact that W. Bengal is ruled by agents of China. Tata was cutting a deal with the pro-China Commie Govt. of WB thinking that at Singur they would get the same sort of regimented labor and police control as in China and also leverage the bad reputation of W Bengal among investors ( mostly due to the same Commies ) to extort a huge subsidy ( free land, cheap electricity and no taxes, .. ) that will be the real key behind hitting the much ballyhooed Rs 1 lakh unit price for the Nano. Now the delay in Nano has gotten most of India even madder at W.B. for holding their cheap Candy back. But the thinking people of India should be relieved that the nexus between Ratan the Fascist / Racist Parsi and the Totalitarian Commie Bongs have been exposed and the slow slide of India towards China like society has been arrested.

But all this may be too hard to grasp for a slobbering hatemonger like you.
Gaurav
Santa Fe, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
77
"One hate pracharak--" Anwar Patel/Ghulam Faruki

Hate Pracharak = One who tells TRUTH of Islam-ie.,

1 "religion of Peace" would exhort to "kill" apostates and "infidels",

2 robs women of dignity by allowing 4 wives per man-(Why not the reverse?)-Foundational Gender Inequality under Islam,

3 Barbaric sharia Laws,

4 Ethnic cleansing of majorities, and then minorities,

5 Perpetual civil wars where Muslims are a minority and ethnic cleansing where they are majority,

5 "War is Deceit" under Islam-thus sanctioning propaganda, lies and spying

6 Promoting the Language of Islam-of abuse and intolerance

7 Using "secular" fascists as a stepping stone to conver India into an Islamic State,

8 Breeding children with no planning, causing social unrest and causing climatic imbalances,no social responsibility,

9 Eating meat excessively-leading to global warming
hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
76
faruki

just one for the road.

bengal and bongos have acquired a dreadful image

when ratan tata got conned in locateing the nano
plant in bengal, i thought it was a bad idea.

sure enough. tata may with draw from bengal.
they should. the silly bongos will continue to
create trouble. thats their nature. anarchic
bums.

tata should relocate to a bjp governed state.
tata said about gujerat. those who dont invest in gujerat are being silly.

those who believe that indian muslims will modernise, progress are being doubly silly.

thats a fact.if a community is stuck in the shit for 60 years who would claim that they will get
better any time soon.

the record of muslims -170 million- is pathetic.
a bunch of rag pickers, rick shaw wallahs as said by you -maybe a few doctors, engineers.
the latter are turning their skills to terrorism.

sorry lad. its enough to drive you bonkers.

does the collective 5 times namaz every day, friday sermons help.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
75
faruki

try and reform your wretched community.

you have said many a time, that you had no great expectations from muslims in pakistan. you implied that they were a lost cause.

many a time you have said- do you want to be like
these islamic countries.? showing your own contempt for them

if pakistani muslims are incureable so are indian muslims.their actions speak for them. the
messages other muslims send out are,

aaa dont bug us-

bbb check out the hindu terrorists-nonexistent

ccc denials that the terrorists are muslims

any one who looks at azamgarh, jamianagar, walled cities will very rightly conclude that they are a big negative and threat to india.

these communities will not change for a hundred or two hundred years- your words.

being positive about these guys is being naive.
they are the potential terrorists,not just for india, but later on for the whole world.

you will see this happening, but ofcource you will deny it. western nations will deal with these guys with an iron glove.

islamic apologists are nonexistent in denmark.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
74
Lalit,

>> ghanni kharab jat che.

You are stuck in your bigotic rut. You can just keep on repeating how ugly things are. You can never think of the possibilities open to us humans. The path that you favor leads to nothing but more hate, more divisions and annihilation.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
73
Hindu/Bodepudi,

>> Ghulam Faruku is a Thought Cop.

One hate pracharak, Hindu/Bodepudi, rushing to support another hate pracharak, Seshadri!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
72
faruki

pakistani,s believe in the two nation theory, and they hate hindus, india.

muslims in india do not. simple opportunism.
we see muslim killers, and watch how the rest of the community covers up for them.

nothing you or any one can convince us of the opposite.

but why do muslims kill other muslims in pakistan.they are one nation. cant help it
i suppose.

ghanni kharab jat che
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
71
"The fact that you would write a post without showing any abhorrence for the above statement, and even supporting it, shows how far your venomousnes and/or senility have gone."
ANWAR PATEL talking to Dr Seshadri

Ghulam Faruku is a Thought Cop, INFINITELY worse than the jihadis that who are bombing the Indian cities
hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
70
faruki

just do a check .

how many muslims in india live in walled cities,
or areas with ovewhelming number of muslim .

make a similar check of muslims in britain.

check out how many muslims have cross cultural exchanges. in my 2 month visits to delhi, i never
meet muslims socially. never eat in muslim restaurants- there is maybe one ot two- which
are reasoneably all right.

never shop in muslim shops- they are mostly in the walled city-

muslims move in their own circles, just as hindus meet only their own kind, and perhaps a few sikhs. again hardly any christians.

india is a very devided country, by language,
race and religion.

i can not sympathise with the mindset of muslims, christians in india. not only are they much taken up by their religions, they seem to have a chip on their shoulders. a part of their agenda seems to be to denigrate hindus, no doubt taught to them since early childhood.

on the contrary i get on well with christians, jews liveing in the west. religion is a minor
interest.

comments from hindus, christiand and hindus in
this forum indicate quite a bit of scepticism,
doubts and uncertainty. its quite different in say denmark, where there is an enormous fellow
feeling in society.

i believe its pointless to keep pretending.
kashmiri muslims have given the secular game
away from day one. most of the so called secularists are mindless idealists, opportunists or unreliable and dishonest people. take your
pick. heaven only knows why they are playing this game.

its time to accept that jinnah was correct.
gandhi was not a man of principle, but often dishonest, in that he preached nonviolence to hindus, but accepted what ever muslims did,eg
in the killings by the mophlas, and later in calcutta. why are hindus so cowardly, so apathatic, is what i get frustrated with. and all of this is considered to be moral, and high
principled.

this is obvious with the way, the laloo prasads,
the commies , the congress wallahs are treating
the terrorist actions. are they angry -not a bit. do they want to really do something harsh and effective-no

i think it will be good for all if india was
devided once again, so that communities like muslims live their own lives in separate areas.
they do so today. i dont want to interfere in their life style,and i dont want to be bugged by them. i wonder if this will dissipate the hate and anger they have in their hearts. but i think
it will help to a considerable extent.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
69
Seshadri,

>> But there is a section in our society that would only be satisfied if a law existed that allowed complete immunity to someone who shot someone on mere suspicion of supporting terrorism!"

The fact that you would write a post without showing any abhorrence for the above statement, and even supporting it, shows how far your venomousnes and/or senility have gone.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
68
Hindu/Bodepudi,

>> Outlook, Hindu and most other papers in India are "secular" from the outside. Inside, they are seething with anger against Hindus for just calling themselves "Hindus"!


It is you who have been seething with hatred of Muslims for the past four years. Becoming a full-time hate pracharak, as you have become, shows the extent of your hatefulness.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
67
Seshadri,

>> He (Modi) only talks of gujaratis as a whole.

If you want to see the hypocrisy, read the Tehelka reports.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
66
Seshadri,

>>>> "The politicians are after our vote, the police in hot pursuit of us." Says Shahid Siddiqui,"
>>A more complete statement would be: "The politicians are after our vote, but they do not share power with us after elections, leaving us to excersise power and get pelf only thro criminal means, leaving us in disappointed alienation; we react in terror then, and then..the police comes in hot pursuit of us."

Are you saying that Shahid Siddiqui is a terrorist? Are you implying that all Muslims are terrorists? It seems that senility has destroyed your mind and left you a total idiot.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
65
Hi, I do partly agree that there would a a sense of victimisation in muslim youth. however a few points need to be considered:

1. When terrorism was being tackled in punjab, the police committed excesses there as well and there was real and faked collateral damage BUT no one woke up to protest against that. Why do secularists wake up only when Muslim communities are involved, come on Hindus and others need to benefit by this great virtue as well.
2. why do seculartists and the Indian state seem to be least bothered about kashmiri pandits? when thousands were killed and thrown out of their houses because they did not belong to the majority religion, no secularists went up in arms against that?
3. remember lets not get idealistic. there is no society everyone is equal. Main issue is whether opportunity exists of all or not. today no one can say that qualified muslims dont get jobs or admissions.
4. when people say that muslim representaiton is civil services/judiciary etc etc is low, that is because so few of them are taking to education.
5. A large section of the population refuse to embrace family planning and have arge families, HOW will they then fight poverty?
6. in my native village, there is only once muslim family. they have been encouraged to send theri children to the village school but they have insted chosen to send their children to madrasas. this way their chieldren wont even have a fighting chance to get jobs ater on and it will be attributed to discrimination.
7. there have been cases where my hindu friends have not got flats in so called muslim bldgs with the reason being that only muslims are given flats. i have been refused a house in a vegetarian CHS. how many muslim societies will give houses to pork eaters? but then again this issue gets touted as discrimination against muslims.

The issue is very complex, just saying that there is a consipracy against muslims is very simple and easy.
vinod
Mumbai, India
Sep 29, 2008 12:00 AM
64
Lalit,

>> there as a deep conflict between hindus and muslims in india.

As Mushirul Hasan says in this issue, "the two-nation theory is grounded in the mistaken belief that Hindus and Muslims constitute autonomous entities, with no common points of contact and association, and that religious loyalty takes precedence over ties and bonds of relationship based on inter-social connections and cross-cultural exchanges."
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
63
Jihadi "War is Deceit"

Islam morphs into whatever form it takes to subjugate or eliminate the Kaffurs (Infidels- Hindus, etc), while wearing the mask of a "religion".

Hollow statements like "Peace" and "Mercy" are interwoven into Islamic texts and tenets to deceive the unsuspecting converted Muslims (formerly, Hindus)and non-Musl leading into the bottom, like "War is Deceit". The true nature of Islam can not be understood until the big picture is visible and the contradictions are obvious. (until then, it's like the blind describing the elephant)-"Killing an innocent is like killing humanity", quickly and silently followed by " Whoever changes his religion, kill him). Hence, the BJP may try converting ALL Muslims back into Hinduism, justifiably.

Islam is full of contradictions and CONFUSIONS, leading the blind FAITHFUL who are unable/unwilling to see the elephant-the truth of Islam. Confusion masks deception, leading to the bottom line, "War is Deceit"-thus "religiously" sanctifying the spread of lies and propaganda
hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
62
S-Naqvi::>>' It is a state run by men who can be overcome by their own prejudices and never be held accountable for such lapses. It is a state that some would argue is biased against all citizens because it delivers nothing to anyone. It is a state where an attempt is made to cover incompetence with more incompetence. It is a state that criminally neglects its duties. Or acts in an overzealous manner that convinces many citizens that the state is indeed the enemy."

All the above is true. India has become a socio-polical/economic system, qualifying to be called 'uncontrollable' as per state-variables system theory. This happens when many state variables, involving large energy or value storages, get completely disconnected with the available 'control input variables', bec of defective communication inter-linkages.

From this viewpoint, the main fault in indian system today lies with the print, radio and video media only. Truly national commitment is conspicuous by its absence, channels serving sectarian and political interests abound, newspapers have become viewspapers supporting national and transnational vested interests for money or sheer prejudice, headlines perverted, even belying real contents of news. The first steps for the correction of india into a 'controllable' system has to come by way of introspection, by media-folk, towards complete honesty and nuetrality in terms of politics, religion and right/left alignments.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
61
Should read www.ummah.net, below
hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
60
>>"But there is a section in our society that would only be satisfied if a law existed that allowed complete immunity to someone who shot someone on mere suspicion of supporting terrorism!"

The world is wagiing a war on terror now. In war and love, there are no laws to be answered for.
ask the hundreds of souls who died in the benazir procession, now with Allah. Are their lives less valuable than someone who may be shot inn suspicion only, especially when found with illegal arms or bombmaking materials? Will Allah agree?

If hidden sharpshooters had watched the benazir procession, the bomb-bringers could have been shot before they hit her vehicle. Same with marriot hotel in islamabad. A few innocents even shot by suspicion, among the many clearly appearing to be in mischief, will save hundreds even more innocents, not even appearing to do any mischief, whatsoever.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
59
Hindus: Please read the following:

There is a story of a Mohammedan boy being ostracized by his community for participating in the Ganesh festival. It's Mohammedans who divide and seggragate themselves, not the other way round. Hindus are too meek and absurdly weak-and hence, only REACTIVE, THUS FAR.

Outlook, Hindu and most other papers in India are "secular" from the outside. Inside, they are seething with anger against Hindus for just calling themselves "Hindus"!

If you want serious questions on Islam debated, please visit unmah.net. If you want rhetorical questions, based on FACTS and REASON, please read books by Srjda Tritkovic, Ram Swarup, Andrew Bostom, KS Lal, RC Majumdar, Sita Ram Goel, Robert Spencer, Ali Sind's Faith Freedom, Islam Wach, Wafa Sultan, Hirsi Ali, etc

Arundhati Roys, Noam Chomskys, etc etc are the "official" "Approved" pro-jihadi candidates



hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
58
Justice Verma:>>""The original sin is the pursuit of personal interest by public men. That is today the only ideology followed by those who serve the Indian State. After themselves, they serve their kith and kin. Then the caste and community."

This 'sin' seems to be completely absent in Narendra Modi. Compare him with karunanidhi and dev Gauda! But, Modi is selectively despised by the media! Why?
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
57
>>>"if Narendra Modi can become an iconic political figure"

Media hatred for narendra modi is bec he does not fall into their 'divide and laugh' trap, they routinely follow with most politicians, in their silly debates. He only talks of gujaratis as a whole, indians as a whole, development for all. Neither divisive politics nor media theatrics nor legal tricks seem to work with him. In cases of intrinsic honesty, truth finally triumphs, as the nanavati commision report indicates.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
56
>>"the police procured head-scarves associated with Palestinian guerrillas, swathed three young men in them and produced them before the media as terrorists"

Why dont moslems like Naqvi feel proud and thankful for it? after all, like kashmir being the root-cause problem betw india and pak, palestine is the root-cause problem betw islam and the west.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
55
>>"The politicians are after our vote, the police in hot pursuit of us." Says Shahid Siddiqui,"

A more complete statement would be: "The politicians are after our vote, but they do not share power with us after elections, leaving us to excersise power and get pelf only thro criminal means, leaving us in disappointed alienation; we react in terror then, and then..the police comes in hot pursuit of us."

It would be democratically more honest and purposeful for moslems of india to form one moslem league in each state, win some constituencies where they are dominant, plead for their real needs and development in assemblies in parliament in dignity and patriotism; instead of playing palanquin bearers for mulayam or maayaavati, lallu or paswan, gauda or karuna or karat or pawar, get them fake funds from mideast and then plead for pro-pak or pro-iran policies from the indian govt; and then induct or indulge terrorism when the govt prefers nuclear fuel from nonmoslem countries instead of iran-gas via pak.

Moslem leaders should discuss with jamia milia professors [instead controversy-seeking media-folk like Naqvi], and learn from them how they can become productive participants in indian democracy, instead of being the sidekicks to casteist or churchian politicians and then get reduced to be the agents of jislamists from pak and the middle-east and end up as sought-after criminals.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
54
Father Emmanuel: "Christians do not make a votebank"

True. Only moslems, converted innocent SCs and tribals constitute the votebanks for the congress and the obc-dynasticians and casteisians in alliance with the sonia-congress. but, once the congress wins elections, christians both open and cryptos [hiding conversion for continued reservation privileges], are really sought after posts as central ministers, spokespersons, state-CMs and so on. Christians are not votebanks, but are the riders to political power on the backs of votebanks as horses.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
53
Correction:

One wonders why police chiefs of the cities concerned do NOT go to court with 'defamation' suits on such writers like Naqvi.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
52
S-Naqvi:>>" Muslim youth are picked up at random and identified as terrorists, with the police in several metros claiming they have "the mastermind". Their identities and sketches are released to the media"

A very serious allegation on our police forces. One wonders why police chiefs of the cities concerned do go to court with defation suits on such writers like Naqvi. Perhaps, they are really busy solving the cases and providing security to politcians visiting blast sites and hospitals to offer condolences, announce compensations and incidentally add votebanks.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
51
faruki

there as a deep conflict between hindus and muslims in india. it stopped for a while in 1947.

after some time pakistan began attacks on india.
kashmir was one reason, but it was more then this.

there is someting in the dna of islam, which
causes its followers to be violent,agressive and hateful.against any one and everyone.

it does not matter where muslims live in their own countries, or as minorities. everywhere they
have different problems, different complaints,but ultimately it results in their becomeing violent and an unacceptable element.

none of you muslims can deny your guilt that
muslims are behind terrorism in india and abroad.
m.j.akbar the dion of the muslim press has said.

"Not all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslims" you can come up with your usual nit picking, splitting hair, but it
makes you even more disliked.

india is a standing example, how even in states
like UP where the secularists have bent backwards to please muslims, the results are dismal.

All minorities eg christians, tribals , dalits
have reasons for complaint. Only a very few have turned to terrorism.

The same applies to minorities in USA and Europe, and its only muslims who are the worst
of the lot, in most social statistics.

I believe there is no point in argueing with you. Your violence should be met with state violence. Some how or the other muslims will have to be separated from the others, unless they
stop being muslims.

this is the only solution, lots of minipakistans with sharia, madrassahs,mosques,skull caps and burquas.full freedom for suicide bombers, wife
beaters, and danceing dervishes.

public beheading, stoneing of women every sunday on play grounds.

the lord be praised
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
50
The aam aadmi has long abandoned reading PRAFUL BIDWAI - the jholawallah freak and ultra-commie.

Is there any credibility in the writings of this self-professed hindu-baiter.
sandy
Mumbai, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
49
ALIBABA,

Swapan Dasgupta is very courageous journalist. It takes lot of courage to stand out from the motley band of sickularist journos who are a disgrace to their profession with their terribly slatned writings. You need balls to stand up and challenge the cacaphony of the secular brigade. Only WIMPS get co-opted - so that their professional advancement is not impeded.

Swapan Dasgupta we salute you. More power to you! May your tribe increase.

ALIBABA, as for injecting Mullah seed, I can only say that catastrophe would be equivalent to someone being forcibly infected with HIV/AIDS. You never know what horrible creature mutates from "Mullah genetic material". Suffice to say that the hideous offspring would be the devil incarnate.

ALIBABA, Go and retire in your harem with your 40 concubines and keep this forum free from your perversions.
sandy
Mumbai, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
48
Now Saba is preparing ground to make aggrieved muslim youth to join terror groups by large numbers.
Anindya Chatterjee
Dubai, U.A.E.
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
47
Delhi ’encounter’ raises tough questions.

By Praful Bidwai.


http://www.sacw.net/article52.html

Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
46
BAHOT FAALTU TIME HAI TUMLOGON KE PASS.TUM SABKE SAB 50 YA USKE OOPER KE HOGE.
LAGE RAHO
NEW GENERATION HAS NO TIME TO INDULGE IN THIS NONSENSE LONG DEBATES.
INDIA WILL B FINE AFTER UR GENERATION.
GOOD LUCK FOR YOUR HATE DEBATES.
fine
delhi, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
45
Alibaba your tongue speaks about your breed. Prognosis is a necessity in your case.
Stop radicalizing Indian version of islam and stop linking religious hollowness and frustration to the state's policy.
Swapan das gupta is correct in his comparison, Hinduism is plural and amenable to change unlike islam. Bajrang dal can be extinguished any time with common civil code and a bunch of bananas.
Jai-Tej
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
44
Rajesh:>>" They would happily settle in Islamic rule, provided their interest is preserved."

Yes. But, your above statement is largely true of OBCs among hindus, not FC nor SC/ST. Islamic rule in india was possible only bec OBCs took 'service' role under the sultans. Even during freedom struggle, 'justice-party' OBCs, along with the moslems, only supported the continuance of the brittish empire. After independance, against their wishes, they have entered into politics to replace the sultans and satraps, dynastically, in collusion with jislamic moslems and churchian converters.
Christianity in India has also turned wholly churchian, only after OBC-converts became church leaders. Earlier, voluntary converts from FC only lived in moralist harmony between christian morality and hindu-dharma. You can see the change in behasvior of St. Stephens, St. Josephs, managements over the past half century.

>>"Hindutwa is nothing but desperation to preserve upper monopoly"

Hindutva is only about restoring the values of sanaatana-dharma as welfare socio-dynamics once again in india, rid of casteist evils as an interim decay, to recreate an example for civilizn based only on selflessness and mercy, real democracy [damaka-raajaya, based on dayaa, daana and damana, mercy-charity-suppression of oppressive tendencies], since both capitalism [kapita-aalasya, idle-rich evil-dominance] and communism [kaama-yonija, greedy-but-idle prolifn of jislams and leftists] have failed, as seen in the earlier fall of the soviet system, as also the curent free-fall of the 'free-enterprise', cheap-money, western money-power system.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
43
Naqvi or Nakli!
Wake up you idiot. You and your ilk wants to enjoy every democratic freedom while advocating hatred for others. Haven't you exploited "Minority" tag long enough! Why don't you move to a muslim country and see how much democracy you can enjoy. You are a disgrace to India and sooner you admit that lees you will be in denial.
escoss
delhi, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
42
It all started with Congress' Vote banl & appeasement policies, rememner Shahbano case. Muslims want every advantage under Indian Democracy but wants Shariat laws & courts, not uniform civil code. If Chrisitan missionary stop the conversions, there is no hate against them.
Devendra Patel
Ahmedabad, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
41


Why does nt the Home Minister simply resign and go home? He is as useless as the rest of Sonias 'dream team'.

Parthasarathy
Chennai, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
40
Hindu/Bodepudi,

>> If you are too old to remember your own posts...

The guy just lies and lies and lies! He is a disgrace.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
39
Hindu/Bodepudi,

>> Religion of "PEACE" waging non-stop jihadi wars...

This from a psychopath who has advovated murder and even genocide in this forum! He is a crook who tried to post in this forum using my ID!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
38
"secular" means enabling the growth of jihadi terror."" Hindu

//I agree wholeheartedly.

And just ignore the cheap jibes of Faruki. He obviously believes if he can repeatedly throw muck at you, some will stick.
Fond hopes, indeed." Sandy

1 This jihadi idiot has never answered the simple query based on FACTS: Why minorities are ethnically cleansed out in almost every Muslim country?

2 Why Kashmiri Pundits are being genocidally cleansed out?

3 How can Hindus let Muslims grow as they are doing in India given they carved out a separate state through jihadi terror?

4 Why this jihadi Faruki calls BJP fascist when what the BJP doing is meekly trying to defend Hindus, though with neither spine nor any imagination?

5 Why is Ahmedinejad, a theocratic fascist, a hero for this rascal? Instead of defending his own posts, this fanatic pretends to forget them!

6 Throwing stones at mud is unwise-why I speak softly with this anti-Hindu TF


hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
37
"What a shameless liar!"

called Ghulam Faruki.

If you are too old to remember your own posts, it's better to get help from outside.

CAIR is a pro-terrorist organization and your affiliation with CAIR (and God knows what else) is well known
hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
36
'What does this article have anything to do with any texts, idiot? Will your hate prachar ever stop?" Anwar Patel/Ghulam Faruki

Religion of "PEACE" waging non-stop jihadi wars against "infidels" as sanctioned by the texts and tenets of Islam.

Your language of abuse (Islam) is well anticipated and addressed by Wafa Sultan-a Theocratic Fascist!

hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
35
Hindu/Bodepudi,

>> You were worshipping Ahmedinezad and supporting the 9/11 terrorists.

What a shameless liar!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
34
"Justice Verma says the state is not biased, it is rotting from within. "The original sin is the pursuit of personal interest by public men. That is today the only ideology followed by those who serve the Indian State. After themselves, they serve their kith and kin. Then the caste and community."

Exactly. In other word, this is Indian family value. First serve self, then children. Children, brought up with Hindu value, never find fault in parents.

Then comes caste. Remember Hindutwa came alive in 1990 when V.P.Singh implemented OBC reservation. It was the gone-with-the-wind of upper caste's world. The current march of Hindutwa is nothing but desperation to preserve upper monopoly. Their enemy is rise of SC/ST/OBC, not Islamic terrorism. They would happily settle in Islamic rule, provided their interest is preserved.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
33
Khushi Ram/Minu,

>> But in between Gandhies,Nehrus, Congressies butted in and stunted the 1947 process .

Another lie from this fake Christian, who is in this forum solely to vent her anti-Muslim hatred.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
32
Satya/Bodepudi,

>> deep contradictions inherent in Islamic texts...

What does this article have anything to do with any texts, idiot? Will your hate prachar ever stop?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
31
Yes, what evidence is there that Moslems are being secular, and that the Bajrang Dal is getting in their way? Moslems are just using the arguments of liberal democracy, as Lalit observes, to further their own interests. Look at how Moslems have behaved in Pakistan, Bangladesh and the Indian state of Kashmir. Nothing to inspire confidence here.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
30
faruki

muslims have made us take a hard line stand towards muslims.

we dont want india to be a relicate of azamgarh and jamianagar. muslims always use arguments
of liberal democracy to further their interests
when in a minority. they themselves are the opposite.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
29
faruki

after ethnic cleanseing of pakistan and kashmir,
you have no right to lecture us on wanting a
more hinduised india.

we will not be suckers for ever.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
28
">> "secular" means enabling the growth of jihadi terror."

I agree wholeheartedly.

And just ignore the cheap jibes of Faruki. He obviously believes if he can repeatedly throw muck at you, some will stick.

Fond hopes, indeed.

Genocide and hate is intrinsic to the "religion of peace" - subjugation, persecution and annihilation of all non-believers, the sacred duty.

To achieve this, never-ending jehad must continue till end of time. That's what Allah has ordained.
sandy
Mumbai, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
27
"To a hate propagandist like you, "secular" means an impediment to the achievement of your cherished anti-Muslim pogroms! Remember that you are the same villain who advocated murder and genocide in this very forum." Ghulam Faruki/Anwar Patel/??????

Goebbels would be envious of you. You were worshipping Ahmedinezad and supporting the 9/11 terrorists, openly! "Secular Fascism" in full display with the typical Islamic language of abuse for the Infidel Hindus



hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
26
"As long as there is a political party which owes its existence and ties its fortunes to minority bashing, "

As long as pseudo sickularism reigns and minority appeasement continues full throttle, you can expect a backlash from the tormented and humiliated majority.
sandy
Mumbai, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
25
Hindu/Bodepudi,

>> "secular" means enabling the growth of jihadi terror.

To a hate propagandist like you, "secular" means an impediment to the achievement of your cherished anti-Muslim pogroms! Remember that you are the same villain who advocated murder and genocide in this very forum.

Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
24
"Excellent article." Ghulam Faruki/Anwar Patel/Green Leaf, et al

from a jihadi perspective
hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
23
'The real conversion happening in Karnataka is that of the RSS-BJP, who are using
aggression to consolidate their hold in a once secular state" Ghulam Faruki/Anwar Patel

"secular" means enabling the growth of jihadi terror and unchecked Muslim population.

True followers of Christ are welcome in India since the Prince of Peace was both a teacher and a student of the Buddha Dharma. But conversion should not be allowed through bribery and propaganda, as many (un)Christian Missionaries often did in India and elsewhere

hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
22
"The real conversion happening in Karnataka is that of the RSS-BJP, who are using
aggression to consolidate their hold in a once secular state"


http://www.countercurrents.org/sanjana270908.htm


Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
21
Excellent article. As long as there is a political party which owes its existence and ties its fortunes to minority bashing, the prospects of a continuing slide towards an unimaginable abyss remains high. Any real or perceived failures of the moderate or secular parties will be exploited by the parivar to swell its ranks. The police forces are already tilted heavily in favor of Hindu extremism and the judiciary, at least in Gujarat, does not inspire any confidence in the minorities. The backward march of what once was a secular/democratic beacon in a sea of third-world theocratic or totalitarian regimes is being propelled by the RSS/BJP/VHS brand of communalistic virus.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Sep 28, 2008 12:00 AM
20
Varun:>>"myth of "no temples were destroyed prior to December 6/1992" gets perpetuated"

The facts 'not emphasized' are also important: 1. that the babri-masjid was a long-time non-use structure only, destroyed, symbolically, against moslems not allowing the rebuild of even kasi, mathura temples, one for siva and one for vishnu, free from their isl-shrine attachments. 2. No moslem was hurt in the demolition of the unused mosque in ayodhya.

If the moslems don not overcome their 'idolatry' for unused mosques over the world, Allah will continue to punish them with social exclusion from others and self-inflicted destructions among themselves.


v.seshadri
chennai, india
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
19
"Restore the population ratio as it was in 1947 since Pakistan was carved out for Muslims"

HINDU

"What ratio you are talking ?? Pakistan was created to give Muslims a seperate Nation as they wanted to live away from Hindus. Their demand was reasonable,honest and practical.

But in between Gandhies,Nehrus, Congressies butted in and stunted the 1947 process" KR


The RATIO I was talking of was the Hindu-Muslim ratio in India, soon after Partition-around 6%.

Gandhi and Nehru cetainly did good things with regards wrt the British imperialism (though the British over stayed by a few decades)-but were clueless and exhibited pathological diasability with respect to Islamic Imparialism-paving the CLEAR and CONVINCING road for the extinction of Hindus in their land of birth
hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
18
Stopperbhai, to this day, there are commentators who declare that no temples at all were destroyed in Kashmir beofre December 1992. And some elements of the BJP did not help their case on this matter, by poor information about the location of the temples; such lousy information was easily refuted by the media( including even "India Today", which is pretty balanced) to score a point against the BJP for spreading disinformation. Yet, any independent analysis can show that there were scores of temples destroyed or desecrated before that big traumatic Ayodhya event of December, 1992. Unfortunately, Kashmiri Hindus themselves have done a miserable job of providng the details to the Indian media. So the myth of "no temples were destroyed prior to December 6/1992" gets perpetuated.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
17
To define bias look at the Hindus in Pakistan. Their voice is not heard and even their existence is not acknowledged. Learn to be realistic before making grandiose statements.
Vivek Gumaste
New York, USA
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
16
I don't get this: Agreed that those attacking Christians and Muslims should be prosecuted, why is it so inconvenient to talk about the truth for a change:

1. In Orissa, the problem began when a VHP leader (not matter how much we may dislike the VHP, this guy was widely respected locally) was murdered in an area known for aggressive Christian prosetylization for decades. Why is this wider issue, which is causing social unrest not even considered part of the discourse?

2. In Karnataka, a widely circulated booklet by Christian missionaries calling themselves New Life spread inflammatory remarks about Hindu religion. In fact this group is known to be so aggressive that they even try to convert Catholics. A fact reported by The Hindu. Read more at
http://www.hindu.com/20...s/2008091552950300.htm.


3. I object to Saba Naqvi's calling equating essentially a law and order problem to class warfare. Comparing Christians and Muslims to oppressed castes in Hinduism is mischievous and inaccurate - some of the most powerful offices in the country are held by people belonging to these communities. It's probably fashionable for a leftist to class warfare at the drop of a hat.
photonman1
Hyderabad, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
15
"Restore the population ratio as it was in 1947 since Pakistan was carved out for Muslims"

HINDU

What ratio you are talking ?? Pakistan was created to give Muslims a seperate Nation as they wanted to live away from Hindus. Their demand was reasonable,honest and practical.

But in between Gandhies,Nehrus, Congressies butted in and stunted the 1947 process .

India is paying the price and will pay much steeper price of follies of those hare brained leaders. Muslims have simply proved the Eternal Truth that what was true in 1947 is true in 2008.

Truth is eternal ! Truth is not the capitive of anybody specially brainless Congressies.

Khushi Ram
ambala cantt, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
14
With sudden spate of pro-terrorist and anti-Hindu articles (even by OUTLOOK's standard) I suspect that someone has received a rather large cheque this time!
J
Bangalore, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
13
The Islamic fundamentalist conspiracy against Hindus received unqualified support from the Pan Islamic Movement and from across the border. Here are some of the glaring examples that defy and shred into a million pieces the tall claims made by the Muslim leaders of Kashmir about their dedication and adherence to nationalism, multiculturalism, secularism, Kashmiriyat and religious freedom.

In 1967, Shivala temple, Chotta Nazar, Srinagar was desecrated. Again in 1984 Shri Hanuman temple at Hari Singh High Street was damaged and in the same year Arya Samaj temple of Wazir Bagh, Srinagar was burnt down.

Some statistics that prove as to how unfairly Jammu, the province of the state with Hindu majority, is treated by the Muslim dominated Govt. may be seen in the attachment B.

3) Temples desecrated, damaged and/or shut down in Kashmir from 1990 to December 1992

1. DASHNAMI AKHARA, SRINAGAR
2. GANPATYAR TEMPLE
3. RAGHUNATH MANDIR, SRINAGAR
4. SHIVA TEMPLE , JAWAHAR NAGAR, SRINAGAR
5. HANUMAN MANDIR, SRINAGAR
6. SHIVA TEMPLE , BARBAR SHAH, SRINAGAR
7. JAI DEVI TEMPLE , BIJBEHARA
8. VIJESHWAR TEMPLE , BIJBEHARA
9. SHIVA MANDIR, BIJBEHARA
10. RAGHUNATH TEMPLE , ANANTNAG
11. GAUTAM NAG TEMPLE , ANANTNAG
12. THREE TEMPLES OF LUKHBHAVAN, LARKIPURA, ANANTNAG
13. WANPOH MANDIR, ANANTNAG
14. SHAILPUTRI TEMPLE , BARAMULLA
15. DAYALGAM MANDIR, ANANTNAG
16. BHAIRAVANATH MANDIR, BARAMULLA
17. BHAIRAVANATH MANDIR, SOPORE
18. RUPABHAVANI MANDIR, VASAKURA
19. KHIRBHAVANI MANDIR, GANDERBAL
20. SHIVA TEMPLE , GANDERBAL
21. MATTAN TEMPLE , ANANTNAG

There have been reports of further destruction of some 39 temples in Kashmir after December 6, 1992 for which FIR were filed. Please note that FIRs on all destruction cases were not filed with the authorities in view of the complicity of the administration and warnings of retaliation against the complainants by the Islamic terrorists.

These examples represent only a fraction of the systematic mass destruction of thousands of temples in J&K after independence of India when the Islamists assumed the total and unfettered control of the state.

1 Please resettle ALL Hindus of Kashmir, with their properties returned with damages,

2 Convert ALL Mosques into multi faith centers,

3 Restore the population ratio as it was in 1947 since Pakistan was carved out for Muslims


hindu
Varanasi, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
12
Minority offences are major in nature and targets the majority while majority offences are a result of the government's votebank policies and a reply to the government.
pear
mumbai, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
11
This bitch is lying in Gujarat more hindusa dn muslims are behidn bars in godhara postgodhara episode.. ironcially thsi point was being paraded against modi at the eve of election.. suddnely when convenenit t=same bitches have change the truth
Rahul
Delhi, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
10
Every freaking guys is suddenly writing piece in defence of terrorists all these suckers have been sleeping till yesterday when state was not able to nab these guys.. Makes you wonde which side these scribes are on terrosits side or people's side
Rahul
Delhi, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
9
What a Bitch.. noo hindu organization has potu any bomb in public place and stalthily disappeared these acts of cowardice is jihadist's calling card.. get it in your head
Rahul
Delhi, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
8
Hypocricy Of Liberals

"Liberals" of India and the West are unwilling and unable to look deeply into the deep contradictions inherent in Islamic texts and tenets and its consequences-support for terrorism and the ongoing jihad against Hindu Infidels. If "liberals" look honestly into Islamiv Texts and Practices, they would never support the "rights" of radical Islam to wage unending terror wars against India and the West
Satya
Meru, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
7
i have read a article by raia zakaria, a pakistani woman attorney based in new york.

she writes in daily times-

aaa 800 women have been killed in pakistan,since 1st jaunary 2008.

bbb 100 women get raped in karrachi every 24 hours- seems unbelievable.

ccc the number of people who are killed every day in fights,battles every day is mind boggling

now who are these pakistani muslims. i guess they
are closely related to the indian muslims. so
is it surpriseing that these indian muslims are people of the worst kind.

muslims like saba naqvi have no time to offer
to defend-if this not possible-, then to commiserate with their sisters.

instead this mad women is concerned about dalit
christians fighting tribals in orissa, and
evalegical christians fighting hindu enthusiasts
in karnataka.

i suppose it serves a purpose, and that must be, to take her eyes of the rot within.

anyway saba and her band of muslim pro journalists have useful allies in vinod mehtas,
saghvis. so who can blame her.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
6
August 25: In a similar incident, a 17-year-old girl managed escape from the clutches of
the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) personnel at Industrial Estate Zakura. In protest,
Industrial unit holders called for indefinite strike until the erring personnel was brought to
book.
They rang the office of C.M. Mufti Sayed several times but after three long hours they
were tossed like shuttlecocks from one official to another without getting in touch with the
CM. Shakeela of Pulwama district came to Zakura to stay for few days with her aunt
Zubeda wife of Abdul Samad watchman at Industrial Estate. Around 12 pm, Samad and
Zubeda went to a doctor and left their three-year-old baby and Shakeela at home. Abdul
Samad closed his grocery shop adjacent to house.
About 60 meters away from the house there is a CRPF camp of C - Company 37
battalion. Sensing that the girl is alone at the house a CRPF man from the camp went to
Abdul Samad’s provision store even though it was closed. In the feverish tone Shakila
related the whole incident: "I shouted from window that the shop is closed and there was
no one at home. This proved to be the undoing. I thought he went back to the camp.
Instead, he entered from the main gate and started quizzing me. He asked whether I was
married or not. When I said no, he proposed me marriage and began to pose obscene
questions. He was holding a bundle of notes in his hands and offered
me...."
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/a
fra/Desktop/ccs/Missive%202003/August/august.htm (6 of 26)2/12/2007 8:44:54 PM
The Informative Missive Published by PUBLIC COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS
Sensing his bad intentions I tried to flee. However, he caught hold of my hand and
pushed me onto a bed in the dining room. Seeing this my three-year-old cousin started
crying. In the meantime, he bolted the door from inside. I told him that I will pacify the
crying kid and come back again. As soon as CRPF man opened the door, I ran away and
took shelter in the house of our neighbour here".
Rafiqa, who received Shakeela when she fled from the clutches of CRPF man, stated,
"She came running towards me. She was shocked and choking with tears. I told her that I
would go and teach them a lesson". The accused CRPF personnel had told a male childwho
was in the house- to fetch apples from the camp indicating that he had been eyeing
the girl for sometime.


http://www.jkccs.org/Missive%202003/m0803.pdf
Vivek Chatterjee
Calcutta, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
5
Vivek Chatterjee
Calcutta, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
4
Saba Naqvi, you will always remain the female Mullah, communal to the core and seeing all the problems with the non-Muslims. Mullahs and female mullahs like you are the real problem why the Muslims are the most backward people on earth today.


Indian state is particularly harsh on Salman Rushdie and so kind to MF Husseins. All terrorists are not Muslims but most of them are Muslims. Muslims are driven by a particular mentality and Indian Muslims are nor an execption. Would everybody forget the lessons of History ? Indian state is always playing an obedient slave to Muslim fundamentalists. MK Gandhi started all these by supporting a despicably backward Khilafat movement. The trend will continue. If the people behind the bomb attacks are Muslims, then definitely some Muslims will be arrested. Why do you raise a hue and cry over that ? You try to portray the Indian intelligence agencies and the police as the real villain and muster support for the real criminals who killed mindlessly in Kashmir and who are killing everywhere in India now. Indian police is not merciful to the terrorists in the North East, then why should they be to the Muslim terrorists. Above all, thsese Muslim terrorists consider all non-Muslims to be their enemies and hell bent on wiping them out or converting them to Islam. The happenings around the world today and in India in particular make everything clear. Everybody knows who the enemies of civilzation are and who the fools are to believe in rewards of 72 virgins for all their despicable acts.

Indian state always overlooked Muslim fundamentalists and still giving a free hand to dogs like SIMI etc. Everybody knows the kind of support SIMI enjoys from the likes of Lalloo, Maulana Mulayam, Congress and the left. Everybody knows the kind of language the Urdu press in Hyderabad used for describing the attack on Taslim a by Muslim funadmentalist in Hyderabad (and everybody was apalled by the innocent looking lines this Female Mullah Saba Naqvi selected for her whitewashing article in Outlook. The problem is these masked "liberals" like Saba and her ilk are communal to the core, but Outlook and our compromised media are too afraid to say so)
jaleel
luknow, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
3
The tone of this article seems to be treating the attacks not as a law and order issue but the state should view it in the prism of votebank politics. While everybody uses the word Hindutva and Hindu militants freely, when it comes to other religious extremists, they are careful to point out that Islam does not approve of the killing of innocents and terrorism has no religion. Can we have a sense of balance here?
CharanWolf
Bangalore, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
2


Why does nt the media recognise the REAL forces behind the disturbances - RELIGION?

Religion is responsible for brain washing youngsters into different groups and politics takes care of the rest. If you REALLY want religious divides to end, then you must work to the end of irrationality which goes in the garb of spiritualism - RELIGION.

Parthasarathy
Chennai, India
Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM
1
we have a brahmin cook, adressed by me as pandit jee. he has been with my sister for over 20 years, so that i know a bit about his family.

one of his sons stole some money,was arrested and the police made a number of charges. he was
given a choice. pay rs 10,000 or stay in jail.

my sister knew a retired ig of police, and with his intervention the boy was left of.

this could happen to any one-muslim, sikh or christian.

if i was in trouble i would never call the police in india.

so if muslims complain, its more because they are more vulnerable. they dont have the net work.

this said, even in france 40 percent of inmates
are muslims. in denmark 30 percent of jail inmates are muslims.

read any paper in the west, and every day there
are reports of terrorists. danish news papers and tv, have reports of honour killings in muslim families.

if i can not be trusted,then check up yourself. in fact in stead of conspiracey theories, how
about haveing a blog where reports of minorities crimes ,punishment,innocent victims are published. let us have hard facts, numbers ,names.

regarding orissa the fight is between hindu tribals who are fighting dalit christians. if
the hindu tribals were conned or killed ngo,s and the secular press would ignore it.

if the same happens to christians,then president bush and the pope send a message of condemnation.sonia is at the the head of govt.
notices are sent to the erring state.

i know from denmark. the life of one dane is
worth more then a thousand indian christians .
muslims do not even figure anywhere.

the hindus have become a soft target.

its like the native american indians faceing an onslaught by english colonists and the spanish conquestedors.

in india the media -for what ever reason-is
always attacking the hindus.

european liberals have changed sides. they openly
attack fanatical islam and backward muslims.

read yasmin ali-bhai brown article now available
in the " independent" london, a solidly liberal paper.

read the comments as well, and read how angry and
frustrated the britts are with islam and muslims.

unlike the posters here ,they are focussed, logical in their arguments. the secular writers
do not even measure upto their socks.

india is an enigma. full of people unable to think logically and sanely.

gurcharan das is probably correct in his critique of the indian state. its like a huge
bear, and it best to avoid its attentions, what
ever be your religion,or sex.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark