WEB Magazine Sections Interactive Features Regulars Resources RSS
National Magazine | Aug 18, 2008
Count Me: Hindu protesters take to the streets in Jammu
Jammu protests
Echoes In Hell
The agitation is beyond Amarnath, it's about Valley hegemony
Also In This Story   
Jammu protests
An impassioned talk in Parliament inspires folks in faraway Jammu the wrong way. Unrest erupts.
Jammu protests
The highway is virtually closed. Bids to open it have only made the government look prejudiced.
The Great Divide

Jammu's Anger

  • Wants restoration of the 39.88 hectares of land allotted to the Amarnath Shrine Board. The J&K government has withdrawn the allocation.
  • Governor N.N. Vohra, seen as sympathetic to the Kashmiris, should quit
  • Kashmir-sympathetic leadership at the state and Centre discriminated against the Jammu region
  • The 2001 National Conference government legislation has put a ban on delimitation of constituencies till 2026. People in the Jammu region, which has more area and population than the Valley, feel they deserve more seats in the assembly.
Discontent In The Valley
  • Don't want restoration of land to the Amarnath shrine board
  • Many feel diversion of land to the shrine board means settlements of non-Kashmiris in the Valley
  • Resentment against blockade of the Jammu-Srinagar highway by Hindu protesters
Genesis Of The Controversy
  • May 26: The Congress-People's Democratic Party (PDP) government clears the diversion of 39.88 hectares of land to the Amarnath Shrine Board. The allotment is approved by two PDP ministers.
  • A few days after the land diversion is approved, the PDP launches an agitation against it. Violent protests in the Valley.
  • June 28: PDP withdraws support to Ghulam Nabi Azad's Congress-led government.
  • June 29: Governor N.N. Vohra, also the chairman of the shrine board, says the board doesn't need the land
  • July 1: The minority government reverses its earlier allotment of land. The Azad government falls on July 7.
  • Valley celebrates the reversing of the land transfer order. However, Hindu anger erupts in the Jammu region. The state has been on the boil ever since.

***

"Awake Jammu! Awake! This is the time to come out and show our unity and strength. If you miss this opportunity, your children will ask you why you have become slaves of a Kashmir-centric leadership. Pass this SMS to at least 10 Jammuites...."
—Text message which spread like wildfire, leading to a state clampdown on SMSes

It's 11.30 pm on August 4 in Samba, a small district town 30 km south of Jammu. The national highway is deserted, the army columns are on vigil. Along a one-kilometre patch left unguarded by the forces, a group of defiant men, women and children are out holding candles, beating 'thalis' with ladles and shouting anti-government slogans.

If ever there was a time in the people's consciousness of their own power to change destiny, of a defiance of the law of the land and an awareness that history is being made, Jammu is witnessing it now. Right or wrong, years of pent-up anger at jobs denied, of being asked to sacrifice their interests for the larger cause of retaining Kashmir within India and being in a state where decision-making was always in the hands of leaders from Kashmir, it's now all coming out.

As a stunned leadership in Delhi and Srinagar watches helplessly, the anger is not just being articulated from conventional political forums or dharna venues. It comes from inside the kitchens of housewives in Muthi, the narrow bylanes of Purani Mandi in Jammu city, college girls in Nagrota, schoolchildren in Akhnoor and even the swish set living in posh Jammu colonies.
 
 
Mehbooba Mufti was gheraoed over her "two-and-a-half district agitation" comment.
 
 
They are pouring out in thousands, defying curfews and braving police battalions across the region.

What began as an agitation by the Amarnath Sangharsh Samiti (ASS), a group of some 30-odd social, political and religious organisations, against the revocation of the state order diverting 39.88 hectares of forest land to the Amarnath Shrine Board on July 1 is now fast becoming a people's movement for regional equality. As B.S. Salathia, president, Jammu Bar Association and among the brains trust of the ASS puts out, "It's a god-given opportunity for Jammuites to unite against years of injustice meted out by governments sitting in Kashmir." Meanwhile, on August 7, the BJP, despite the Centre's pleas to desist, decided to go ahead with a three-day nationwide strike on the Amarnath issue from August 11.

A couple of days back, the ASS rejected an offer by J&K governor N.N. Vohra to come and "see how the land at Baltal is being used by yatris". Vohra has now constituted a four-member committee of eminent people from Jammu to talk to the ASS. But passions are running high and the provocative posturing of politicians in Kashmir has not helped matters. The ASS is also sore that the all-party meeting called by the PM in Delhi this week ignored it and chose instead to talk to those political parties responsible for the problem in the first place.

Take the PDP's Mehbooba Mufti, who was gheraoed at Jammu airport by angry agitators because it was the party-sponsored protests in Kashmir which forced the government to take back the land allotted to the shrine board.
 
 
All 3 Congress MPs, and even the Muslim organisations in Jammu support the protests.
 
 
Her remark that the Jammu agitation is just "in two-and-a-half districts" (Jammu, Kathua and Udhampur) surrounded by Muslim- dominated areas has enraged people here. Her other statement, "Don't lose Kashmir for just 800 kanals of land," is seen here as yet another attempt to blackmail the government.

Meanwhile, Omar Abdullah of the National Conference has become persona non grata in the entire Jammu region for his speech in Parliament. Former CM Ghulam Nabi Azad is facing not only the ire of the people but also the wrath of party legislators from the Jammu region. All three Congress MPs—Karan Singh, Madan Lal Sharma and Lal Singh—as well as some party legislators have come out in support of the ASS and are demanding Vohra's removal.

What is now becoming clear is that even if the land transfer row is resolved, Jammuites are no longer prepared to be subjugated to a Kashmiri-dominant leadership. A persistent refrain here is the unequal distribution of electoral constituencies vis-a-vis the population and land area of both regions. An angry Abhinav Sharma, a Jammu HC lawyer, says, "Even though Kashmir has just 20.8 lakh voters, against Jammu's 30.5 lakh voters and with a larger area too, we have just 37 assembly constituencies while Kashmir has 46, the remaining four being with Ladakh." The Farooq Abdullah government in 2001 amended the state's constitution to ban delimitation of constituencies till 2026. This has effectively nixed the possibility of Jammu region getting a greater share of political power.

The unexpectedly belligerent reactions in Jammu has also irked separatists in the Valley. Syed Ali Shah Geelani of the Jamaat-e-Islami has described the ASS agitation as an "assault on the Muslims of Jammu". The moderate Mirwaiz Umer Farooq has begun talking of a separate state for Jammu's Dogras.

If there is a ray of hope in the sharply polarised environment, it is Jammu's Muslims who have so far defied provocation by Valley-based leaders to rise against the "communal Hindus". The Muslim Federation based in Jammu representing the community in the districts of Rajouri, Poonch, Doda, Kishtwar and Jammu supports the ASS and has even joined protest marches at many places. "The Muslims here have never felt comfortable with the Kashmiri Muslims... they look down on us. We feel the ASS is fighting for a just cause," federation spokesman Suhel Qazmi told Outlook.

Meanwhile, it's been a non-stop 13-day bandh and six days of curfew in Jammu, Kathua, Udhampur and surrounding areas. This has led to acute shortages of essential commodities. "Kashmir was closed for just three days and the government quickly revoked the land order. We have been agitating for over a month and no one is bothered. But we will not stop," says Kamal Sharma, a shopkeeper in Muthi, 10 km outside Jammu.

Meanwhile, a jittery state administration is waiting for some central initiative to defuse the situation. Fifteen people have already died in the current conflagration in Jammu and the Valley. Despite army presence, processions continue to defy curfew, chants of "Bam Bam Bhole" reverberate across the region. If the Sangh outfits fanned the issue in the initial days, the situation is now outside even their purview. In fact, it has spread to places where the parivar has no presence. No one, it seems, has any idea how to get the genie back into the bottle.
Also In This Story   
Jammu protests
An impassioned talk in Parliament inspires folks in faraway Jammu the wrong way. Unrest erupts.
Jammu protests
The highway is virtually closed. Bids to open it have only made the government look prejudiced.
Filed In Topics: J&K, Chander Suta Dogra
More In: National
 
Daily MailPublished
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Aug 17, 2008 12:00 AM
149
Seshadri,

>> the destruction of the babri masjid, was only an incidental 'secondary byproduct'.

That is a stretch!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 17, 2008 12:00 AM
148
AP>>>"Destruction of temples was a secondary byproduct rather than the primary purpose"

I wish Davood Ibrahim, who organized the bombay blasts in response to babri masjid destruction by bajrangis had your type of 'wisdom', to appreciate that the primary purpose of the VHP was only to rebuild the ram-janma-bhoomi temple at the birth-place of the maryaadaa-purushottam, the destruction of the babri masjid, was only an incidental 'secondary byproduct'. In that case, neither the bombay riots, nor the godhra train-burn, nor the gujarat riots nor the recent blasts in Ahmedabad, one as consequence of the other would not have happened. I wish the SIMI activists in india fully appreciate your 'secondary by-product' theory, on these issues. The country can have full harmony between hindus and moslems.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Aug 17, 2008 12:00 AM
147
"Trying to judge people and events of the seveth century Arabia with the yardstick of twenty first century liberalism is not only stupid, but harmful .."

Interesting to note that no such disclaimers are made, when antique evil practices of Hinduism like caste system or sati is discussed.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Aug 17, 2008 12:00 AM
146
Faruki

At times you give up on muslims in India.
At other times you are optimistic. Wish full thinking.

Muslims in Pakistan are a terrible lot. It is a
constant reminder to us, about the way Indian muslims think and act.In my eyes you are the same.

You can reform or not at your own pace. Meanwhile
we should not involve ourselves with you guys.
There is no pay off.

I have a very negative view of muslims evolveing in future. So far I have been right. Nothing
suggests that there are any changes round the corner. Not for decades, or a century.

Why are you so stuck in this religion. Its a dead
loss. Why be a pariah, isolated from the civilised and cultured world.Absolutely silly.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 17, 2008 12:00 AM
145
faruki

provacations should not justfy lack of rationality.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 17, 2008 12:00 AM
144
Lalit,

>> azeem is a gentleman-which you are not.

Just because I call you an empty-headed bigot? You are being unfair!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 17, 2008 12:00 AM
143
Lalit,

>> have you read johann hari,s article.

It is no different from the drivel in this forum. Trying to judge people and events of the seveth century Arabia with the yardstick of twenty first century liberalism is not only stupid, but harmful because it generates a mullahish response and puts moderate reforms on the back burner. Since you yourself are a practitioner of such mindless campaign, I don't expect you to see it.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 17, 2008 12:00 AM
142
Lalit,

>> why have you been repeating the above ,ad infinitum.

You must have missed the provocations offered by Seshadri and Azeem. Must be due to an alcoholic fog!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
141
Good one Lalit. It's not an either-or. Moslems wanted loot, and they also wanted to deal a massive blow to what was to them, an idolatrous, infidel religion. That's an excellent point readers have made about the aftermath of the looting. If it was just about plunder, then why not just take the jewel and coin. What's the need to destroy the entire structure, or in the case of Somnath, use its pillars as mats to tread on for mosques in Afghanistan?
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
140
azeem

thanks for your post.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
139
faruki

azeem is a gentleman-which you are not.

why have you been engaged in the debate about
ghauri and ghaznavi. is it to prove that they were robbers, but otherwise gentleman with the best behaviour.

the practice of islam has destroyed your brain cells. you are unable to appreciate liberalism, commonsense or decency.

all your time is spent in defending muslims,
even of the worst kind. that is why i believe
that muslims like you and nonmuslims should live apart.

you can debate with other muslims, and tell each other what a wonderful ,peace loveing and tolerant religion you have.

the danish govt is willing to pay free passage to many muslim refugees and others who leave
the country.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
138
faruki

have you read johann hari,s article and the readers comment.

islam is under attack by a large section of nonmuslims, and the critics have excellent arguments,which you are unable to refute.

i can understand that you get so enraged. thats one more argument against islam-lack of rational thinking.

you are wasteing your time on this forum, except
for revealing time and again that you are a blind follower of islam.you are beyond redemption, and a misfit in liberal societies.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
137
faruki

i agree that the prime motive was robbery.

the secondary motive was bigoted hate.

now lad- whats so wonderful about that. why have you been repeating the above ,ad infinitum.

neither of the two motives does credit to the
muslim invaders.

as a indecent person, i may rob a church for its silver, and bottles of good port wine, but i would not burn it down. was it too much to expect this from the people you so incompetently defend.

good heavens man, cant you find a worthier cause then defend the worst of the kind in your religion. this exposes the fanatic streak in you. i am sure you would also have done the same as messers ghauri and ghaznavi, whilst claiming that the parivar had done it, as claimed by justice banerjee.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
136
Seshadri,

>> It is very difficult for me and open-minded moslems like Azeem to believe that Gazzni and Ghauri et. al. attacked india and its temples only for collecting the gold etc in them.

I do not know about either you or Azeem being open-minded, but let me spell out once again what I have been saying in very simple terms so that even you understand what I am talking about. Conquerors conquer other countries in order to expand their empires, or to increase their power, or to replenish their treasury. Destruction of temples was a secondary byproduct rather than the primary purpose of military conquests.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
135
Gulam:>>"This is totally irrelevant to the argument and also a total lie"

I don't see the irrelevance, and 'lying' is something I am incapable of.

It is very difficult for me and open-minded moslems like Azeem to believe that Gazzni and Ghauri et. al. attacked india and its temples only for collecting the gold etc in them. Then, they should have gone back with their loot, without starting islamic kingdoms and eventually the moghul empire here. Some historians have explained that India, with its vast plains and many rivers, where farmers just threw seeds on river banks and waited to harvest wheat, paddy, veg and fruits, without very much labour, spending the time relig, culture, music and dance etc., naturally attracted the raiders from the midwest, where the terrain was mostly desert or mountains, to come and settle down here. There is some validity in that. But, it does not explain why they destroyed whole temples, instead of just taking the money [temple undials are being stolen even today]. If india's weather and wealth was the only attraction, they could have become hindus themselves. Instead, they deliberately tried to destroy the most revered temples like those in Somnath, Mathura, Ayodhya, Benares, replace at least part of them as mosques, as evidences indicate. Islamic fanaticism and antagonism for idolatry and infidels have definitely played an unmistakable role in the mid-eastern raids over india, over a millennium, apart from the attractions of a fertile land and benevolent weather conditions, also. You may refuse to agree, outwardly, but your own conscience and Allah on your mind will agree with the truth of my statement.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
134
Seshadri,

>> People like Gulam seem to think, they can get away by saying 'islam is a religion of peace'.

This is totally irrelevant to the argument and also a total lie. As soon as you get a toady like Azeem to agree with you, you think you can resuscitate your lie, and resume your attacks on Islam! And then you wonder why I do not respect you!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
133
AZEEM>>"It certainly was wrong and sinful and justifying a wrong doubles it."

You are right. People like Gulam seem to think, they can get away by saying 'islam is a religion of peace' and whenever violence is indulged in by moslems, it is because of their 'human' deficiencies as individuals, not bec of islamic teaching. In fact, ahimsaa-based religions like hinduism and buddhism and forgiveness-based religion christianity can claim this, and say that violence by hind, buddh, chr people was only by those who did not deeply and fully understand their respective religions. Hitler or Stalin were not real christians! Islamists cannot claim this, bec the quran itself has many passages strongly recommending violence against idolators and infidels. Modern moslems seek the escape route by defining 'jihad' itself only as fight in self-defence to save one's culture, country or civilzn, akin to 'tasmaad yudhyasva bhaarata' told by Kr to Arjun, to eliminate the national evil under duryodhan, who even refused just five villages or homes to paandavas, who had clearly established their suzereinty over the subcontinent by a raajasooya yaaga, attended by duryodhan himself! Gazzni attacking Somnath repeatedly could certainly NOT claim that the indics had come over all the way to Arabia and prevented the devout arabs from practicing their islam!

Real long-term solution for islam is for all international scholars, authorized by isl conf of nations, to meet and prune quran, into a 'hu-ran', humanized quran' containing only those verses which say 'Allah is the only ultimate GOD' and that 'religion is essentially a path of mercy and peace' are retained in it, and enjoin that only this mercy-quran is taught in all madarsas of the world.

This suggestion need not be revolting to moslems.
All religions of the world have allowed evolution with times, over the millennia, islam being the only exception. But for reform by Luther, christianity would not have survived so long, would have died off as a churchianic priestocracy. In hinduism, primitive nature- worship type multi-theism of the early vedas were continuously enhanced, re-interpreted and deepened into the vedanta of the 'upanishads',
name describing literally the 'sittings' in discussions by the front-line rishis under the chairmanship of scholarly and spiritual kings like Janaka, dad of Sita. [Saudi royalty should initiate such scholar-sttings for islam]. Lord Krishna condensed the upanishadic wisdom in the Gita. Later, when hindiusm decayed to brahministic ritualism, even with animal sacrifice, Mahaaveera-buddha-Sankara trio, in succession, set the matters right. Lord Krishna re-appeared as Guru Govind Singh to provide the guru-granth as guide for the Sikhs as defenders of sanatan dharma in India against Islamism, while also honoring sufi-islam of monism-and- mercy type. Today, the virtues and values like vegetarianism and scientological monism have been shared equally by the Dalai Lama, Maharshi Ramana and the world-renowned poorvaachaarya of Kanchi, the royalty of Greece among his disciples! God does help those societies and civilizns which willingly work for spirituality in tune with science and logical philosophy.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
132
Azeem,

>> Lalit MBs reply regarding the Bamiyan statues explains what I was trying to say.

The discussion was about whether Muslim conquerors made their conquests in order to destroy temples. The shameful destruction of Bamiyan Buddha was not done by any conquerors who went to Afghanistan to destroy icons. It was done by Afghans who were blinded by their wahabi-talibani ultra-orthodoxy. Butting into a discussion without knowing what it is all about with your usual "Like me, like me, please like me!" attitude is what makes you so obnoxious.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
131
To Anwar Patel.
I am certainly no paragon of logic. That distinction goes to you in answering questions to almost every reader on the forum.
As for what I said in my post, Lalit MBs reply regarding the Bamiyan statues explains what I was trying to say.
To Lalit MB,
You have contended that had the temples been dirt poor, they would not have been attacked. OK, so they were rich and if these chaps were only after the wealth, they could have looted it and disappeared. The fact that they destroyed it anyways clearly shows their intent. Back to the Bamiyan statues, there was no wealth to be looted and in fact, like you pointed out, they even refused to accept money from the Japanese so there again, the intent is clear.
Azeem Taqi
Nashville, United States
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
130
faruki

on the other hand you have the example of the taliban, who bombed the bamiyan budhas for several days, and it was a very organised effort.

they refused the japanese budhists offer of money. they just had to destroy these statues

did you read johann hari-in the independent.

the comments were what i expected.

critics of which there were many wrote against
islam etc

the muslim readers were outraged. they were against any criticism of islam

the same as in this forum

it must be obvious to all now, that with the internet free speech in all matters is ensured.

its futile to fight against it. people who get
angry, should not be in chat forums.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
129
faruki

for once i agree.

however since wealth was primarily in temples,
it was like killing 2 birds with one stone.

if the temples had been dirt poor, they would not
have taken the tireing jorney.

but it seems they were both bandits and iconoclasts at the same time. like the spanish
conquestidors.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
128
Azeem,

>> Could the person who gave this illogical argument give one good reason why fundamentalist crooks like Ghauri, Ghazni, etc destroy temples if not considering it, in their warped sinful minds, that it was a part of what they believe is religion.

As a paragon of logic, you may be able to understand that even if Ghaznavi and Ghori thought in their warped minds that idols must be destroyed, that does not mean that they undertook their conquests with the specific purpose of going out there to destroy those temples. As I said before, conquerors make their conquests to expand their empires, to increase their power and to build up their treasuries.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
127
To Seshadri ji,
Your post, ' AP:>>"The fact that Muslim conquerors destroyed temples does not mean that the conquest was on behalf of religion."
Even your grand-kid will not accept your statement above.'
You put it very well, Seshadri ji.
It certainly was wrong and sinful and justifying a wrong doubles it.
Could the person who gave this illogical argument give one good reason why fundamentalist crooks like Ghauri, Ghazni, etc destroy temples if not considering it, in their warped sinful minds, that it was a part of what they believe is religion?


Azeem Taqi
Nashville, United States
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
126
To LalitMB,
Referring to your post - 'why did the prophet ban drinking of wine, listening to music, the arts and other things',
Of the above, only liquor is prohibited in Islam.It is clearly stated in the Holy Qur'an. To appreciate and enjoy music and arts is obviously a very cultured thing to do. It is the fundamentalist idiots who talk and impose such nonsense.
Personally, I do not drink (since Islam prohibits it) but I certainly attend parties where my friends' drink and I am right there enjoying the party with my 'Pepsi' - these are personal things - Jews and Muslims do not have pork, Hindus are often vegetarian and those that are non veg too do not eat beef. Everyone is free to do what he likes, and respect that freedom in others.
Coming to the issue at stake - I still don,t understand what New Delhi is doing. The demand for the land is not a favor, it is a right. It is high time Dr. ManMohan Singh steps in and ensures that the land is allotted, has it protected by the army and puts anti national people behind bars or, let them go to Pakistan Occupied Kashmir as they recently threatened. We Indians will be more than happy that anti nationals will not be in our midst.
Azeem Taqi
Nashville, United States
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
125
>> Jammu agitation is undeclared war between Nationalist and anti-Nationalist forces.

That clarifies the issue! Thank you!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 16, 2008 12:00 AM
124
>> "THis is kashmiriyat" WHat else you expect from the kashmiris?

The statement of the Hizbul guy is deplorable, but it is not much worse than the things that you and J and Ashok have said about Kashmiri Muslims.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
123
The Indian Express begging the Congress to change Shivraj Patil!


http://www.indianexpress.com/story/349105.html


But if a minister is to be removed for incompetency, then who will remain in UPA?? How can there be a ovt without PM and other ministers? Shivraj Patil is definitely more competent than PChidambaram.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
122
Ganesan,

>>I never said it was used in that sense. I was putting a positive spin on that.

I know. Media can't keep fooling people(some, but not all) with their baseless lies. Mainstream media, both print and electronic, is doing its job of fabricating facts and presenting fraudulent information, while we (the online community) can keep exposing them and puncturing holes in their artful hoaxes which they try to pass off as news.
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
121
Jammu agitation is undeclared war between Nationalist and anti-Nationalist forces. Jammu people are fighting against the combined strength of Kashmir based separatists supported by Pak and Saudi, Delhi based anti-nationalists and foreign funded anti-national "secular" media. It is high time that the rest of India puts its weight behind the people of Jammu. Fizziling out of Jammu agitation, will be a defeat of all nationalists in India and a victory for Islamic terrorists and "secular" traitors.
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
120
" don't think writer used the word "Dog" in that sense. He used the word in a very derogatory manner. "

I never said it was used in that sense. I was putting a positive spin on that.

What else you expect from the succulars? They have no argument to explain the flag burning or the host of other issues. They are going name call people who bring attention to these facts. Dogs, pigs etc.

You cannot allow yourself to be offended by these tactics. We just have to keep hammering facts and keep saying what we believe in-regardless of how we are called. A tiny punk like Sumit should not be allowed to affect serenity.

Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
119
Ganesan,

I don't think writer used the word "Dog" in that sense. He used the word in a very derogatory manner.

It should be a matter of grave concern to every Indian when mainstream anti-national media starts referring to nationalists as 'Dogs'.

Is our media being controlled and funded by ISI or Dawood. Are ISI and other anti-India forces waging a psychological warfare against India/Hindus by taking control of our media? If yes, shouldn't we do something about it?

How in the hell can "secular" media call terrorists from Hurriyat to their studios and give them plentiful air time without asking them tough questions? Why does our media give widespread coverage to terrorist supporters to every hue and shade? Why did media blackout the protests in Jammu for over a month? Even when media started reporting it, it launched a well calculated campaign of disinformation against the Jammu agitation with the objective of discrediting the agitation. Fake news and baseless lies like economic blockade of Kashmir and communalisation of Jammu agitation were part of this strategy. Media is displaying total lack of intellectual honesty and is still falsifying facts by trying to pass of mass-uprising of patriotic people of Jammu as political opportunism by BJP.

Our "secular" media speaks the same language that separatists and terrorists in Kashmir do. It is no coincidence that when Barkha Dutt visits by Kashmir she is treated like royalty.

BTW, Barkha Dutt is married to a Muslim. When I find out more details I will post them in this forum.
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
118
What a prize for Mr. Jain, IG CRPF, Kashmir Division
Shunted out from the valley just because he was a true nationalist and had performed his duty sincerely by crushing the nefarious designs of the separatists and antinational elements. Even his name was deleted from the list of awardees of presidential medal, just to appease antinational elements. This gives a very clear message to all the nationalist persons, don’t be nationalist if you are in J and K. More over, no action has been taken so far by the govt against all those police personnel who were responsible for disgrace to the dead body of a martyr and severely thrashing of the relatives and the wife of the martyr. A big shame on the part of Mr. Vohra, Mr. Manmohan Singh and Mrs. Sonia Gandhi. Being female should have felt the mental agony of a lady in whose presence the dead body of her husband was dragged like that of animals.
saraswati
jammu, India
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
117
Doctor ends life for land

"A 65 year old Ayurvedic doctor, a practitioner and a philanthropist today ended his life by consuming poisonous substance in Hiranagar town of Kathua district in support of an indefinite agitation, launched by Shri Amarnath Yatra Sangarsh Samiti (SAYSS), demanding return of 800 kanals land to Shri Amarnath Shrine Board (SASB). The doctor, who chanted ‘Bum Bum Bhole’ at Lord Shiva’s temple in Ram Leela Ground at Hiranagar, before laying down his life left behind a suicide note calling upon the people to continuously pray ‘Om Namo Shivay’ and don’t relent till they get the land restored to the SASB. With this, a total of nine persons have given up their lives during 46 days long agitation and 23rd day of consecutive bandh."

http://www.dailyexcelsi...m/web1/08aug15/news.htm


Additional info :
"He left a suicide note donating his property to the Samiti, police said."
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
116
J:

What is wrong with the "dog" comment? One defining characteristic of dog is loyalty. In this case, people who are loyal to India have been called dogs. That is a compliment.

Kashmiris can never be accused of being loyal to India and hence they cannot be called dogs.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
115
Ooops! Times-of-India does it again. It calls patriotic Jammu people as 'Dogs of BJP' and doesn't say a word against behavior of "secular" anti-national outfits like PDP, NC and Congress.

"To begin with it must firmly urge the BJP to call off its dogs in Jammu. Contrary to their calculations there is limited political capital that can be gained from any further agitation."

http://timesofindia.ind...articleshow/3362175.cms
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
114
The root of the problem is quite simple. Do the kashmiris consider themselves as citizens of India or not? How do they explain the pro-freedom slogans or burning of the flag?

If the kashmiris do not see themselves as Indians, then the whole point of negotiating with them is meaningless. The only thing that needs to be negotiated at that point is how to push them out of the country and with what.

The solution to the kashmir problem should start with a referendum on whether kashmiris want to stay with India or not. Thats the basic question. Ignoring this will only prolong the problem.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
113
Advani:
"Can this group of nationalists be equated with the separatists who foment trouble in our country. This precisely is the mistake that the government is committing."

This in a nutshell is the problem. Advani laid it down very well. The succulars who argue about communal divisions are totally missing the point. Even the muslims of Jammu are supporting the people of Jammu-not the people of kashmir.

And the muslims in kashmir(who else is left there) have not cared one bit about the muslims of Jammu. A muslim from, say Delhi will not be accepted by the kashmiris.

So at the root this is not a hindu-muslim problem. It is a Indian-kashmiri problem. Kashmiris do NOT believe in the sovereignity of India. To ignore this basic reality will make the problem only worse.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
112
L.K. Advani’s letter to Prime Minister

"The problem in J&K today is not Hindu versus Muslim; nor is it even Jammu region versus the Valley. It is essentially nationalists versus the separatists. The people of Jammu supported by the rest of the country, strongly feel that the revocation of the Cabinet order with regard to Amarnath was purely under separatist pressures. There is a huge sense of hurt and injury in Indian public opinion which has resulted in the nationalist opinion being alienated because the separatists have to be pleased.

The protest of the people of Jammu has been nationalist; they hold the national flag to their heart, even when they protest. They raise slogans in support of our motherland and also the Indian army. It is for this reason that both the army and security forces are finding it difficult even to enforce the curfew. Can this group of nationalists be equated with the separatists who foment trouble in our country. This precisely is the mistake that the government is committing."

http://offstumped.natio...e-minister-on-amarnath/
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
111
"THis is kashmiriyat"

WHat else you expect from the kashmiris? I am certain that the statement of the Hizbul guy was not something isolated but reflects the opinion of large number of kashmiris.

But kashmiris are who they are. It is the rest of us who need to understand them.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
110
15/08/08

This is Kashmiriat, the Kashmir hospitality.

"I will advise Kashmiri Pandits not to take a foolish step to return to the Valley. And those leaders who have sympathy with the Pandits’ return, leave Kashmir and stay with them in Jammu,” - Ahsan Dar - Founder Hizbul Mujahideen [ Aug'03-2008"


Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
109
"Sangarsh Samiti calls all countrymen for their fullest support and contributions for this cause & appeals for generous donations for the financial support towards the security & welfare of the bereaved families of the Martyrs.

The donations can be made in the form of Cheque/Demand Drafts favoring:

1. Shri Amarnath Yatra Sangarsh Samiti (SAYSS) - Shaheed Fund in A/C no. 3965000100147291
2. Shri Amarnath Yatra Sangarsh Samiti (SAYSS) - Ongoing Agitation in A/C no. 3965000100147282

with the Punjab National Bank Ltd. in all branches of the country.

For any clarifications, please contact at Mob.Nos. 94191-88057, 94191-41408.

- (Sh. Leela Karan Sharma), Convener"

http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
108
More on Jammu agitation

"It was a friend from UK who wrote a mail to me and suggesting that “violence against Muslims in Jammu” should be stopped as it would further alienate the Muslims. It made me wonder of of how successful the separatists , politicians of Kashmir and the pseudo seculars of India have been to spread a disinformation campaign which would only hurt the genuine sentiments of people of Jammu. This disinformation campaign is a result of centuries of slavery syndrome the Hindu Indians have , having been slaves of Moguls and Afghans for many centuries,and till today the appeasement is carried on."

http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
107
Patriotic poem written by martyr Kuldeep Kumar Dogra that he recited before he collapsed and achieved his martyrdom.

"Bigul Baj Raha Hain Andolan Ka Gagan Goonjta Hain Naroon Sai.

Mila Rahi Hain Aaj Jammu Ki Miti Nazar Sitaroon Sai.

Ek Baat Kehni Hain Laikin Aaj Desh Key Piaroon Sai.

Janta Sai, Loogoon Sai, Foojiyoon Ki Khadi Kataroon Sai.

Sambal Kai Rehna Apnay Ghar Main Chupay Huyay Gadaroon Sai.

Jhank Rahai Hain Apnay Dushman Apnay Hi Devaroon Sai.

Sanbal Kai Rehna Apnay Ghar Mian Chupay Huyay Gadaroon Sai.

Jago Tumko Dogron Ki Jagir Ki Raksha Karni Hain.

Jago Tumko Lakhoon Ki Takdir Ki Raksha Karni Hain.

Abi Jo Bani Hai Us Tasveer Ki Raksha Karni Hain."



The message of the above poem is : "Be Alert! Be Careful about the traitors who are hiding in your house. These traitors are peeping like sly criminals through our own walls. Wake Up! Be Awake! You have to rise to protect the free hillock that has been given to you by the nation."
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
106
Democracy requires debating with adversaries rather than killing them. Islam does not tolerate challenges. Every Friday by design Islam brainwashes its followers to vanquish the opposition. No wonder such "prayers" are often followed by mayhem !
Gaurav Gupta
San Luis Obispo, United States
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
105
faruki

why did the prophet ban drinking of wine, listening to music, the arts and other things
which you yourself admire in the western world.

or do you live on stale bread, tap water and dates from the holy land.

i suppose you would never watch indian films with women in wet saries. tauba tauba.

lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
104
Varun,

>> totally false 'equal-equal' argument.

Your unequal-unequal mantra is just evil, besides being stupid.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
103
faruki

the whole of the western liberal world rejects islam. their view of islam is similar to that of exmuslims like dr sultan.

honestly i think you are a amazeing man, not to be able to appreciate all the criticism levelled against you.

its your stubborn support for a absolutely foul
religion, which means that we are adverseries and enemies. people like you are unacceptable
in western liberal society. you may find western society fascinateing, but in honesty you should live in islamic societies. prove your preference for islam by liveing amongst muslims.learn first hand about islamic democracy and free speech.

explain why muslim societies are generally bad
across the social spectrum. your attacks on the rss are stupid. they respect human rights, respect women, and you can debate with them.
not with your kind. you are impervious to reason
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
102
What do you mean that they are "no better"? Again, equating a strong criticism of Islam based on verifiable facts, with actual iconoclasm or incitement to commit iconoclasm, is a totally false 'equal-equal' argument.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
101
Ashok,

>> Muslim mind would invent Sanghis expansionist.

Trying to cover up the ugly activities of the VHP again?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
100
Ganesan,

>> Iconoclasm was promoted by the Prophet himself.

Little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The advent of Islam was in the midst of a fierce and unseemly struggle between various icons for commercial advantage in Mecca. As a monotheist the prophet smashed those icons, just as Moses did thousands of years before Mohammed. But it is not incumbent upon either Jews or the Muslims to destroy the temples of religions in other countries. Mohammed did say that God had sent prophets to all peoples in the world. Mullahs who teach regressive interpretations of Islam are no better than enemies of Islam like yourself and Shourie.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 15, 2008 12:00 AM
99
Ravi/Thiagan,

>> They are religiously ordained to demolish the places of worship of other religionists and the founder himself has done it and set the example.

That is the interpretation of mullahs who are often as idiotic as yourself. And equally bigotic!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
98
Ganesan,

>> One has to read the accounts of muslims of the time.

Literature is vast. One finds what one seeks!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
97
"The people’s upheaval in Jammu has exposed 3 fault lines.

Fault line #1 - The Congress in Jammu versus the Congress in New Delhi on how to deal with the crisis in Jammu

Fault line #2 - The BJP versus the rest on how to deal with the Amarnath issue

Fault line #3 - The vocal majority of Jammu versus the vocal minority in Kashmir

Of these 3 fault lines, the first two will likely have predictable outcomes. The last however is bound to radically change the popular Indian attitude towards the conflict in Kashmir. It is this aspect that Offstumped had in its sights when it said “recognize the moment”.

For the first time since the conflict in Kashmir errupted decades ago, the psychological advantage has shifted.

The Valley has for the first time realized how vulnerable and isolated it is.

An indifferent and inward focused Pakistan on the defensive in the global arena is not even in the picture as the debate rages on the future of Jammu and Kashmir. It is becoming increasingly clear that the politically motivated conflict in the name of independent Kashmir has now succesfully isolated Kashmir from those who it depends on for its economic lifelines.

There maybe some poetic justice in this turn of events in Jammu after all.

Having sacrificed the needs and aspirations of a mostly Hindu Jammu at the altar of political correctness in favor of a mostly Muslim Kashmir the players in Kashmir are now learning, albeit expensively, that religious majoritarianism is not a one way street."

http://offstumped.natio...recognizing-the-moment/

(Please read the comments section too)
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
96
"The theory that muslims invaded India and looted and demolished the temples not out of religious conviction but for monetary gains is the standard explanation given by the Marxist historians like Romilla Thapar etc"

And that theory does not pass the cursory smell test. Iconoclasm was promoted by the Prophet himself. He destroyed all the pagan places of worship in Arabia. The four Caliphates carried out this practice in other countries and it is SOP for muslims ever since. Do deny that Islam has nothing to do with temple destruction is ridiculous. One need not see beyond what the Prophet did.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
95
faruki

i know that many muslims in india, are just hard working people, inducted into islam because of
an accident of fate.

but facts are that by makeing this choice, they
are no longer trusted by others.

in the back of our minds they are muslims, closer to pakistan and the muslim world. i consider it a tragedy for them and us that they are in india. we are natural adverseries.your
talk about indians being one nation is crap.
muslims were never a part of the indian nation and never will be. people with their mindset
will never be americans, britts, french or indians.nothing wrong about their values. however
they are misfits in any plural society.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
94
faruki

the taliban enjoyed demolishing the bamiyan budhas. it takes a lot of efforts to break down temples. people did it, without getting any
advantage. must be religious zeal.what else.

dr s. ---faruki is always carrying a tin of white paint to hide the actions of muslims.i know that most europeans have an awful view of islam.faruki,s efforts are futile.he is a born loser, and on the loseing side.the worst for
islam and muslims is yet to come.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
93
14/08/08

"These are all cooked up stories. How can you believe such rubbish."

The theory that muslims invaded India and looted and demolished the temples not out of religious conviction but for monetary gains is the standard explanation given by the Marxist historians like Romilla Thapar etc. In fact they have further said: " Despite the pressure of a section of orthodox theologians", the "eminent" historian Satish Chandra assures class XI students," this policy of brad toleration was maintained during the Sultanate" Arun Shouries has squarely demolished them in his book "Eminent Historians."
Fortunately the intrepid Sitaram Goel set out four hundred pages of extracts and evidence from the leading Islamic historians of those days in his decisive book: Hindu Temples: What Happened To Them: The Islamic Evidence. I give a one quotation for a sample and I have a hundred of them in the computer.

"Sultan Jalaludin Khalji (1290-1296): Tarik-i-FiruzShahi of Ziaudin Barani (1285-86)

Jhain (Rajasthan): "In the year AH 689 (AD 1290) the Sultan led an army to Rathnambhor.....He took....Jhain, destroyed the idol temples and broke and burn the idols......"
" Vidhisha (madhya Pradesh: Allaudin at this time held the territpory of Katra and with the permission of the Sultan, he marched to Bhailsan. He captured some bronze idols, which the Hindus worshipped and sent them on carts with a variety of rich booty as presents to the Sultan. The idols were laid before Badaun gate for true believers to tread upon........"

Why go that far into the past? The muslims have demolished all the temples in Pakistan and Bangladesh; they have demolished 600 of them the Kashmir Valley. The supposedly moderate muslim country of Malaysia, the muslims have demolished 300 temples during the last three years. They are religiously ordained to demolish the places of worship of other religionists and the founder himself has done it and set the example.
Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
92
"These are all cooked up stories. How can you believe such rubbish?"

One has to read the accounts of muslims of the time. FOr starters, I recommend Sirhindi, who was the favourite of the great secularist-Maulana Azad.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
91
Seshadri,

>> non-moslem conquerers had to pay their soldiers well, let them share the loot, at least. But, islamic conquerers had an advantage. Their moslem soldiers had the religious zeal to destroy idols worshipped and kill all idolators.

These are all cooked up stories. How can you believe such rubbish?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
90
AP:>>"Conquerors make their conquests to increase their power, enlarge their kingdoms and build up their treasuries. Religious fallout is a byproduct"

Yes, you are right, about conquerers, in general. But, non-moslem conquerers had to pay their soldiers well, let them share the loot, at least. But, islamic conquerers had an advantage. Their moslem soldiers had the religious zeal to destroy idols worshipped and kill all idolators. Hence, islamic conquerers in india had enthusiastic soldiers who were haapy to kill as many hindu/budh men as possible 'for religious merit', which will be compensated by the attention of heavenly virgins, after their death. They allowed the chieftains to keep loots, asking only for food, and the chance to rape the women of the land after husband-kill, before they are also taken to the harem of the Chieftain, often taken back to mideast countries, as their camp-followers. This explains the prevalence of typical indian eyes in the women of iran, kazhakistan etc.

No wonder islamic conquerers did a very thorough job of killing all the kshatrya hindus in india. It was the silly 'caste-system' that helped hiunduism survive in India, bec the non-kshatr did not join the fight at all! Hence also, the very poor quality in politicians of india [mostly money-maker baniyas, not fighters for justice], the almost complete absence of 'sportsmen' from india for olympics, [sports in india also only exploited by commercial baniyas and corrupt bureaucrats], panjabi Bhindra more of an exception than the rule!

Well, then, it is all God's will, only. The curse of Sita on being banished to forest by Rama bec a dhobi doubted her chastity under captivity with Ravan; and the curse of Droupadi for the fact that Bhishma and Pandavs simply watched duhsaasan disrobing her, [Lord Krishn saved her honour by a miracle of an infinitely lengthening saree!]; and the curse of Kannagi on the pandya king for wrongly executing her husband, were earned by the kshatriya-king-folk in hindu-india. Besides, the non-raise of Padmavati temple uphill to Trupathi, after kali-yuga-end with the birth of Buddha, angered Padma: she was born as Fatima, dtr of nabhi [ravan] with hari [vishnu] as her husb Ali, making islam a rich and powerful religion in the world. [she was later born as a moghul princess, met St. Raamaanja and rejoined vishnu spiriually in Sreeranga].

The nett result of all this has been the ethnic mix of arab/turk adamogenics with the hindu manu-genics of india, to restore some humanism among arabs and some kshatra-valor/sport among indians also, especially the punjabis and sikhs. The sikhs stopped aurangazeb from islamizing india; the sikh and malabar regiments were the most valorous in the brittish, for ethnic-mix reasons.

No wonder MMSingh was willing to risk his govt for the future energy-security of india, Omar Abdulla said he will die for india as a moslem indian, while Lal 'Krishna' adwani voted with the anti-national leftists, against MMS, only to hasten his prime-minitership by six months!. God takes care of india and the world, despite the selfishness and foolishness of mankind, in general and indians, particularly.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
89
Ashok,

>>>> Is a guttersnipe like you going to be a judge of that?"
>> Who else, Musharraf and Talibanis?

You are no better than them.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
88
Ashok,

>> The crisis has exposed the hypocrisy of Valley Muslims and brought out their separatist tendencies for everyone to remove any illusions of Indian Muslims being any different from Muslims throughout the world.

All you are capable of is to frame any argument in such a way as to make it a vehicle for your disgusting malevolence.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
87
Lalit,

>> who are our enemies. ?

Within India, we have terrorists and we also have people who preach hate and divisiveness, such as the VHP, and forumites like Bodepudi, Ravi and Ashok.

Outside India, we have Pakistan and China with whom we have fought wars.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
86
Varun,

>> what conquests did the VHP make.

Exactly my point!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM
85
gaurav

why dont you buy jnu, lock stock and barell and
move it singur. the tata premises will be vacant
soon.

the whole curriculum needs to be changed.

they should be taught to work for the real leftist paradise they have been yakking about.

residential accomodation- charpoys

toilets on nearbye train tracks.

food- rice and dal with raw onions twice a day.

cultural activities- from mao,s red book.

that will your pay back to india.

lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
84
Shutting down JN University in Delhi and all the hangers-on NGOs will be a quick way to take care of all the pseudo - seculars and appeasers. Better yet relocate JNU to some hell hole in India.
Gaurav Gupta
San Luis Obispo, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
83
faruki

look at pakistani,s. they are the people closest to you. in religion,etnicity, language. they are
the closest to kashmiri muslims.

i have no expectations from them.except for a very few like the abdullahs, they are the usual
bearded skull capped morons.

such people are not needed by india. there are already many such people .

let them join pakistan. thats a country more
suitable for them.

lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
82
faruki

who are our enemies. ?

lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
81
"A 40 member delegation of Rashtravadi Muslim Munch (RMM) comprising 16 women, which was on way from New Delhi to Jammu and Srinagar to tell the Muslims to restore 800 kanals land to Shri Amarnath Shrine Board (SASB), was detained and sent back by police from Ravi bridge at Lakhanpur, the gateway to Jammu and Kashmir, this afternoon but not before the Manch leaders held a demonstration at the bridge in support of their demand and extending full support to their Hindu brethren in their 41 day long struggle for a just and genuine cause."

http://www.dailyexcelsi...m/web1/08aug10/news.htm
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
80
The ongoing struggle of Jammu people is struggle between nationalists people v/s traitors and terrorists. The nationalists (whatever their religion) are supporting the Jammu agitation, while Delhi based "secular" traitors and Kashmir based Islamic terrorists are opposing Jammu stir.
J
Bangalore, India
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
79
Excuse me, what conquests did the VHP make, and which conquerors and expansionists are they glorifying?
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
78
"You are both. By trying to create hatred between Indians and Indians you are helping our enemies."

You might try to portray the kashmiris as Indians but the fact is kashmiris do NOT say it. That is something you refuse to accept.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
77
Ashok,

>> I may be a gutter-snipe but I am not a desh-drohi.

You are both. By trying to create hatred between Indians and Indians you are helping our enemies.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
76
Ashok,

>> " But it has been drilled in your head all your life that Muslims made conquests to spread religion."
>> No, no, the Talibanis, the Muslims in Paksitan, Bangla Desh and other Islamic countries ...

They are fanatics, more like the VHP, than the conquerors in hisory books. Seems you just can't get anything right.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
75
Ashok,

>> No wonder, in as many as 52 Islamic states, democracy is practised with Sharia at its base and uneuqality of men and women.

They have to change and will move forward. But sanghis like you want India to move backwards!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
74
Ashok,

>> These Muslims are a ungrateful bunch.

Is a guttersnipe like you going to be a judge of that?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
73
Ashok,

>>>> Democracy is not the outgrowth of any religion, but has evolved from the interaction of several historical forces. Large multi-country polls conducted by Gallup show that a vast majority of Muslims favor democracy. The problem is how to overthrow the entrenched dictatorships, often supported by Amrican might,"
>> As usual, blaming others for the ills of your own religious dictates?

What else would one expect Mr Hate Incarnate to say!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
72
Shesadri,

>>>> "The fact that Muslim conquerors destroyed temples does not mean that the conquest was on behalf of religion."
>> Even your grand-kid will not accept your statement above.

I did not expect you to understand what I had said, but actually it is much simpler than you think. Conquerors make their conquests to increase their power, enlarge their kingdoms and build up their treasuries. Religious fallout is a byproduct. But it has been drilled in your head all your life that Muslims made conquests to spread religion. It must be hard for you to give up such old shibboleths.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
71
AP:>>"The fact that Muslim conquerors destroyed temples does not mean that the conquest was on behalf of religion."

Even your grand-kid will not accept your statement above.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
70
Seshadri,

>> Only moslem conqurers did their conquests on behalf their religion, hence they particularly destroyed the temples and monasteries having 'idols' for worship there.

The fact that Muslim conquerors destroyed temples does not mean that the conquest was on behalf of religion.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
69
AP:>>"Muslim conquerors kill for their conquests just like all conquerors do. Only a liar like you will bring in religion into it."

You are wrong. Only moslem conqurers did their conquests on behalf their religion, hence they particularly destroyed the temples and monasteries having 'idols' for worship there. Indian princes did fight eachother, for power, against injustices etc. But, they left religious centres alone, attacked only the palaces of the opponents. Women and kids took shelter in temple compounds until the feuds among princes were settled in favour of the more powerful. This is the reason why we have many centuries-old temples still surviving, especially in south where the islamist attacks were somewhat limited; very few princely palaces have survived.

v.seshadri
chennai, india
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
68
Ashok,

>> your 'religion of peace', which is involved in killing, bloodshed and terrorism.

Are you going to blame Hinduism for the killing, rape and arson of the bajrangis in gujarat, you idiot?

>> why Muslims are willing to kill and die for Islam and create mayhem and bloodshed throughout the world.

Muslim conquerors kill for their conquests just like all conquerors do. Only a liar like you will bring in religion into it.

>> Kahan Raja Bhoj , kahan Gangoo Teli?

Words from Mr Hate Incarnate!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
67
gaurav

there are clear reasons why democracy can not function in muslim countries.

muslims can not debate or discuss, changes in their society. when ever there is a dispute, the
matter is decided on what the koran says, what
the prophet or his uncle said. no one is allowed
to suggest something new. its always tradition,
koran or the mullah. thats the set up in democratic islamic countries.

the last nail in the coffin of democracy are
laws of blasphemy- which put paid to any dissent.
then there is the law of apostacy. thats the
freedom of choice which we hear with deadly
repetiveness from faruki.

faruki would not stand a chance in a real muslim
society. he would be declared a apostate, and
accused of blasphemy, for claiming that democracy
is better then islam.

whats the punishment for that.

i would love to have a ring side seat, watching
faruki ducking bricks and stones, or the occasional rotten tomato.


lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
66
Sixty years of appeasing Kahsmiri Moslems has failed. No politician there will work with India. They had attained majority in Kashmir by using the sword against the original Hindu and Buddhist population but now want to separate from India using Democracy and a Plebiscite as their argument. The only lesson that the Kashmiri Moslems can be taught is one of force. If Indian Hindus had any guts they would converge on Srinagar from both the south ( Banihal ) and the east ( Zoji - La ) in a thousand heavy trucks armored with thick steel plates and show the cowardly Jihadis who is the boss. The chicken sh__ govt. of MM Singh that coddles these Jihadis be damned.
Gaurav Gupta
San Luis Obispo, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
65
Gaurav,

>> Moslems living in Islamic societies who were asked if they like Democracy know very little about what it takes to create and run a Democracy.

As if Hindu or Christian masses know a lot about what it takes to create and run a democracy! Such asinine statements are consistent with your habitual racist and communalist thinking.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
64
"ANWAR PATEL" writes

" Large multi-country polls conducted by Gallup show that a vast majority of Muslims favor democracy. "

You can quote Gallup, Pew, Zogbi and lord knows what other polls but they can be misleading. Suffice to say that the Moslems living in Islamic societies who were asked if they like Democracy know very little about what it takes to create and run a Democracy - only the idealized benefits from it that they watch in TV. Even the Malaysian Moslems who have had so much contact with the US and benefited so much from outsourced manufacturing from here care very little for the responsibilities of Democracy and revert back to the age old savagery of Islam at the drop of a hat ( recently they have not been treating their Hindu minorities all that well ).

Gaurav Gupta
San Luis Obispo, United States
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
63
Gaurav:>>"Advocating at this time the surrender of Kashmir, the ancient homeland of Hindus, is a sign of uninformed foolishness, if not downright cowardice ! "

Right!. Kashmir should NOT be surrendered to pak, just bec of disturbances there. India should, instead, do to J&K, what Jinnah did to India: partitioning. Separate Jammu, Ladhak and Srinagar City as sep states in the indian union without 370. Kashmirist Muftis can have their valley-state with 370, also in the indian union, with capital 'Mehbooba-bad', somewhere close to POK border. the LOC. Stop all preferential appeasement grants to the valleyists from the central govt funds. Let them stew in their complete autonomy of isolation, with no trade with either india or pak. Their traders can bury their fruits in their mosques as offerings to Allah the Great!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Aug 13, 2008 12:00 AM
62
gaurav

how can muslims who believe in laws made by god,and written in the koran,go for democracy,where laws are made by man.

is faruki willing to scrap sharia. no he is not.

libya, morocco, tunisia,algeria,syria,jordan,
iran, have a chance to be democracies. but they are not.

can muslims liveing in india be described as
democrats or liberals. you must be jokeing.

faruki is an example of the unthinking muslim.
when push comes to shove, he will follow the mullahs in jehad against us.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
61
BTW has Farooq Abdullah finally resolved the issue of whether his father made the right decision to stay with India? Will he provide a yes or no answer?

Also Mehbooba Mufti wanted to go to PoK as well along with the farmers. Does she has any plans of staying there once and for all?
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
60
The Indian govt made a tactical mistake in not allowing the farmers to cross the LOC and sell their stuff in PoK or whereever. That was pure bluff. Is there anyone who seriously believe Pakis are going to pay money to buy something. They steal.

Even if they had bought something with cash, it would have been at ridiculously low prices that it would not have covered the trip fare.

Instead we know what will happen. The Indian govt is going to pay exorbitant price and buy the stuff from the farmers. This will be touted as necessary to establish "peace" and retain the confidence of the kashmiris.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
59
Gaurav,

>> Islam and Democracy are incompatible. Even the Moslems thesmselves know it.

False! Democracy is not the outgrowth of any religion, but has evolved from the interaction of several historical forces. Large multi-country polls conducted by Gallup show that a vast majority of Muslims favor democracy. The problem is how to overthrow the entrenched dictatorships, often supported by Amrican might,
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
58
Ashok,

>> How much white-washing this religion of peace and tolerance requires all the times, baba?

No whitewashing would mean revival of justifications for sati and the caste system! No whitewashing would mean revival of calling Jews "Christ-killers"!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
57
Ashok,

>> You stop telling the falsehood of Islam that says :"Your religion for you and my religion for me".

It is the truth. Just because you are so filled with hate and venom, would it be right to call Hinduism a hate religion? Of course not!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
56
Islam and Democracy are incompatible. Even the Moslems thesmselves know it - which is why Moslem majority Turkey has been secular for nearly a century. There has never been a better time for the Democracies of the world, including India, to resolve the Moslem question once for all. Even the UK, which has historically played the spoiler in order to curry favor with Moslems ( especially Arab Oil Sheiks ) has had its face rubbed in the dirt by home grown Islamic terrorists of Pakistani origin. Advocating at this time the surrender of Kashmir, the ancient homeland of Hindus, is a sign of uninformed foolishness, if not downright cowardice !
Gaurav Gupta
San Luis Obispo, United States
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
55
13/08/08

How many temples were destroyed by the followers of religion of peace in the Valley? Please read:

"In 1967, Shivala temple, Chotta Nazar, Srinagar was desecrated. Again in 1984 Shri Hanuman temple at Hari Singh High Street was damaged and in the same year Arya Samaj temple of Wazir Bagh , Srinagar was burnt down.

Temples desecrated, damaged and/or shut down in Kashmir from 1990 to December 1992
....................

1. DASHNAMI AKHARA, SRINAGAR
2. GANPATYAR TEMPLE
3. RAGHUNATH MANDIR, SRINAGAR
4. SHIVA TEMPLE , JAWAHAR NAGAR, SRINAGAR
5. HANUMAN MANDIR, SRINAGAR
6. SHIVA TEMPLE , BARBAR SHAH, SRINAGAR
7. JAI DEVI TEMPLE , BIJBEHARA
8. VIJESHWAR TEMPLE , BIJBEHARA
9. SHIVA MANDIR, BIJBEHARA
10. RAGHUNATH TEMPLE , ANANTNAG
11. GAUTAM NAG TEMPLE , ANANTNAG
12. THREE TEMPLES OF LUKHBHAVAN, LARKIPURA, ANANTNAG
13. WANPOH MANDIR, ANANTNAG
14. SHAILPUTRI TEMPLE , BARAMULLA
15. DAYALGAM MANDIR, ANANTNAG
16. BHAIRAVANATH MANDIR, BARAMULLA
17. BHAIRAVANATH MANDIR, SOPORE
18. RUPABHAVANI MANDIR, VASAKURA
19. KHIRBHAVANI MANDIR, GANDERBAL
20. SHIVA TEMPLE , GANDERBAL
21. MATTAN TEMPLE , ANANTNAG

There have been reports of further destruction of some 39 temples in Kashmir after December 6, 1992 for which FIR were filed. Please note that FIRs on all destruction cases were not filed with the authorities in view of the complicity of the administration and warnings of retaliation against the complainants by the Islamic terrorists."

So much for the Kahsmiriyat.
These examples represent only a fraction of the systematic mass destruction of thousands of temples in J&K after independence of India when the Islamists assumed the total and unfettered control of the state. But now the Amarnath imbroglio is bound to bury the Govt. promoted Islamist tyranny in Kashmir.

Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
54
Varun

I look at most problems from a practical and commonsense point of view.

For example I believe that Kashmiri muslims should be allowed to trade and visit Pakistan as
much as they want. Why should we be so petty to
prevent this.

The pity is that most Hindus dont give a hoot for Kashmiri muslims, but want to deny them their true love ie Pakistan. It is perverse.

The current situation shows enormous fault lines, and we should now make long lasting solutions. Let Jammu and Ladakh be cut off from
the apron strings of kashmiri leaders. give the valley lots of room to trade and socialise with Pakistani,s. Frankly I would kick them out of the union. They are basically anti Indian and dogmatic muslims. India is incurring a huge cost by forceing them to remain in India.not worth it.

As a bargain maybe Kashmiri muslims would allow some Indian muslims to settle there.At least those from Jammu and Ladakh. Kashmiri pandits should be compensated in some way or the other.


lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
53
ganesan

wrt m.j.akbar, pakistan refused to allow about 250,000 bihari muslims stranded in bangladesh,
after end of civil war.

muslim refugees make a bee line for europe and the west, and bangladeshi come to india, not pakistan-

indian muslims admire pakistan- but then what stops m.j.akbar from liveing there.the same goes for millions of muslims in india.

muslims wear a patch on their eye when looking at islam, the prophet to ignore their ugly aspects.but unfortunately for them the world does not. reporting the ugly , and vicious aspects of muslims is now an industry in europe.

instead of admitting the truth, the faruki,s abuse the messengers,childish.

lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
52
faruki

so you agree that the prophet murdered an innocent jewish tribe.

your bitch because you hate such ugly truths being exposed.

you sure are one hell of a character.allways on the job, whitewashing islam, the koran, the prophet,kashmiri muslims, hamas,hezbollah.

and all for free.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
51
>> But it surely was an accident when the Prophet murdered one Jewish tribe.

Always ready with your slanted poison barbs!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
50
"It was not an accident that Ottoman Sultans gave shelter to Spanish Jews after they were driven out by the Catholic Inquisition." (M.J.Akbar)."

But it surely was an accident when the Prophet murdered one Jewish tribe to its last man and woman and expelled two others out of Arabia. That was an accident I suppose.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
49
Gautam Navlakha and K.Balagopal are the absolute worst, wretched characters, who write on the Kashmir question. No balance, no fairness, no acknowledgement of anything except the legitimacy( in their eyes) of Kashmiri Moslem separatism. Jammu and Ladakh don't exist, the Indian soldiers and policemen sacrificing their lives are at best inconsequential, if not legitimate targets, Kashmiri Pandits are marginal, Pan-Islamic Jihadi terror is not a serious issue, the ideology and behaviour of the movement itself is not to be questioned in any serious way. Everything comes down to the Indian state keeping the great, wonderful Kashmiris in the union against their will, and the 'human rights violations' that flow from that. At least Ananya Vajpayee, annoying and maudlin as she is( see her article a few months ago about Kashmiri "Azadi") does acknowledge three things that are legitimate concerns of Indians- Kashmiri Hindus, Islamic Jihad, and the role of Pakistan. Navlakha and Balagopal have hardly any time for that. Jerks!
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
48
"Farooq Abdullah reportedly said he would sit at his father’s grave and ask if coming to India instead of Pakistan was a mistake for Kashmir."

This may make sense only if it is seen as the plaintive cry of the son of a man whose life's dream was an independent, or at least an autonomous, Kashmir. For us, who see Kashmir as an integral part of India, his words are treacherous. But he is old, and his generation will soon pass.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 12, 2008 12:00 AM
47
Just like grievances of Muslim majority in India need to be addressed, the Hindus grievances in Kashmir need to be addressed.

In India, we have a BJP which does not do this, and a Left/Congress which does (or at least claims to). Seems to me like all the parties in Kashmir and mirrors of BJP. There is no left.
vijay
Chennai, India
Aug 11, 2008 12:00 AM
46
Ravi/Thiagan,

>> To believe Akbar is sure means for suicide.

No, we should believe a liar and a hate monster like you!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 11, 2008 12:00 AM
45
"
The Quran insists that that while there are differences among faiths, it is up to Allah, and not man, to be the judge. For man, there is a clear principle (Surah 2:256): "La iqra fi al deen (Let there be no compulsion in religion)." (This instruction, incidentally, comes just after Ayat ul Kursi, a magnificent evocation to the power of Allah and his protection of man.) A second principle is equally unambiguous: "Lakum deen-e kum wal ya deen (Your religion for you and my religion for me)." It was not an accident that Ottoman Sultans gave shelter to Spanish Jews after they were driven out by the Catholic Inquisition." (M.J.Akbar).


http://timesofindia.ind...id-3346781,flstry-1.cms

Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 11, 2008 12:00 AM
44
"Farooq Abdullah reportedly said he would sit at his father’s grave and ask if coming to India instead of Pakistan was a mistake for Kashmir."

How about finding the graves of millions of Hindus killed by the Islamic jihadi fanatics and asking them for forgiveness?
Pal
Hong Kong, United States
Aug 11, 2008 12:00 AM
43
11/08/08

Rohit Gidwani

The TOI article by M.J.Ajkbar is nothing but taaquia/deception. Islam permits the followers to lie, if it is to further cause of Islamic domination. If Akbar is right:

> why no one had heard about the word fasadi till he discovered
> why Ahemediaas who contend that the violent verses are event related and do not have universal application are being persecuted by sunnis and shias
> why the fasadi myth has not been preached in mosques and madarassas all these 1400 years
> it is irrelevent what Akbar thinks; it is how the entire muslim community thinks. They think of jihad as an instrument for world domination and universal imposition of shariaa. To believe Akbar is sure means for suicide.
Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Aug 11, 2008 12:00 AM
42
India - most f*&ked up society in the world.
Doping-Indian lifter clears doping charge, too late
Aug 10, 8:25 am EDT

Buzz Up Print
NEW DELHI, Aug 10 (Reuters) - An Indian woman weightlifter pulled out of the Beijing Olympics over doping has been cleared by the national federation of any violation but will still miss out, a senior lifting official said on Sunday.

“There was no question of a positive test,” federation secretary Baldev Raj Gulati told Reuters. “(But) Her entry was delayed and technical regulations don’t allow her to be included now.”

Monika Devi, a 69kg lifter, was withdrawn by the Indian Olympic Association (IOA) on Tuesday after being informed she had tested positive in a pre-games test.

A tearful Devi criticised the state-run Sports Authority of India (SAI) whose laboratory conducted the pre-games tests. The Indian Weightlifting Federation (IWF) president Harbhajan Singh described the test reports as “flimsy”.

Gulati said the federation cleared Monika Devi after studying results of certain other tests but the SAI could provide them only on Saturday and it was too late to reinstate her.

He was confident Devi would shrug off the disappointment.

“She has a very, very bright future,” he said. “She should keep her head on her shoulders.

“I agree the Olympics has got sentimental value, but there are many major championships coming in the next two years.”

Her exclusion led to protests in her home state Manipur in the northeast and the state chief minister took up her cause to try to put her on a plane to Beijing.

Indian weightlifting has been mired in doping in the past eight years with lifters having tested positive in the 2002 and 2006 Commonwealth Games. The second instance led to a one-year ban on the federation.

Two women lifters were sent home in disgrace before the 2004 Athens Olympics after they were caught during pre-games checks.
Raj
Chicago, United States
Aug 11, 2008 12:00 AM
41
1 .Mehbooba Mufti says PDP does not mind sharing Platforem with Terrorists.We know it since 1987.What is new to it? MUFTIES ARE THE TRAITORS.

Congress was the ruling partner of these Pakistani sheeps.

2.Jammu Administration in a report to Shrikant Patil's all party delegation says that Hindus feel that they are being discriminated for the last 6o yrs.A fact even a child knows but not HOME MINISTER OG INDIA !

AND THE REPORT SAYS PROTESTS HAVE NOW BECOME A MASS MOVEVENT.This fact is beyond comprehension of the Congressies.

We know,people know but unfortunately neither Congress nor Seculars nor a section of Muslims understand it.Nor ever will they.

3.Indian Army says it is not possible for them to open fire on a mass of protestors who are shouting pro-India salogans like Bharat Matta ki Jai and are waiving Tricholours.

Off course Secullars will not understand this too.THEY WILL CALL ALL THESE PROTESTORS AS bAJRANGIES .But pro-Pakistani taitors are Loyal for them.
4. Nearly a hundered fruit sellers crossed LOC .But they were arrested by the Indian Security.

This was a serious mistake .Once crossed LOC these Muslim Taraitors should not have been allowed to return back as is done by Israelies.Infact we should have pushed overother traitors on our side like Mufties.

PLEASE AVOID THESE MISTAKES in FUTURES.We have enough Gaddars here .A few less will not make much difference.

Khushi Ram
ambala cantt, India
Aug 11, 2008 12:00 AM
40
faruki

you are out of synch with the views of most hindus. there is a minority who support the
secularism of the congress. increasingly hindus
now support bjp. elections in several states have proven this.

islamophobia is increasing in india, as it is in usa, and europe. that is my opinion. i could be wrong. but thats what i gather from articles and
readers opinions in the indian and foreign media.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
39
Pal/Bodepudi,

>> A New Hindu-Indic party with the SINGLE goal of getting rid of theocratic fascism.

What a stupid post! You are proposing a theocratic fascist party to get rid of theocratic fascism!!!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
38
"On monday the farmers of the valley are going to cross the LOC in order"

And never come back
Pal
Hong Kong, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
37
"On the contrary, if Hindus across the nation take a united stand on Kashmir issue, i am sure the issue will resolve quickly. Political parties will not find it suitable to burn the issue any more, and 20 lac something muslims in valley will realise that Enough is Enough. Otherwise, one fine day, hundreds of lacs of hindus will rush to valley and finish all these terrorists once and for all. And no political party will be able to do anything at that time"

For the above to happen, perhaps in a different format, the BJP should reform itself into a party that can unite ALL Hindus with no traces of caste-centric symbilism, corruption and personal agenda. This means no Advanis and Sushma Swarajs-symbols of cowardice and lack of imagination.

A New Hindu-Indic party with the SINGLE goal of getting rid of theocratic fascism from the soil of India, whatever it takes
Pal
Hong Kong, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
36
On the contrary, if Hindus across the nation take a united stand on Kashmir issue, i am sure the issue will resolve quickly. Political parties will not find it suitable to burn the issue any more, and 20 lac something muslims in valley will realise that Enough is Enough. Otherwise, one fine day, hundreds of lacs of hindus will rush to valley and finish all these terrorists once and for all. And no political party will be able to do anything at that time.
Tarang
ahmedabad, India
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
35
Indian Muslims must step up to the plate- it was they, the Muslims who demanded a separate land for Indian Muslims, not the Hindus. In fact every Hindu leader was against the partition based on religion, yet Muslims persisted and got their wish, only that, more than two-fifths refused to go their their new fatherland of Pakistan, preferring instead to remain in Hindustan.
Yet these who stayed behind, not just want their equal share of the remains, but are demanding special status and rights, which every Congress govt to date has gone to great pains to satisfy, even to the detriment of the majority population. Who's to blame for all this mess? None other than the evil, power-hungry Congress Party.
Bodh
Springfield, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
34
On monday the farmers of the valley are going to cross the LOC in order to sell their fruits as they could not sell it here. The PDP is going to support it.

I would like to see this materialize. Let them cross the border and we will see how much they actually make. It would be interesing.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
33
'Mayhem...bloodshed....bleeding economy...civil war...more terrorism..do you wish that on India? '

ROHIT GIDWANI

I don't wish-NO -Never !

But are we not heading in that direction on fast pace ? Whom you want to blame ? If Muslism of Valley are at fault we must say so.And let us be not under impression that BJP is now in control.No sir basically Hindus of Jammu are now on their feet.And if we don't mend our ways then it will be the same all over India.

a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
32
Ghai: If Hindus rest over India take similar stand as the Hindus of the Jammu have taken then ???

Mayhem...bloodshed....bleeding economy...civil war...more terrorism..do you wish that on India?
Rohit Gidwani
San Fransisco, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
31
Muslims in Valley have been accustomed to being pampered and their all of the demands whether reasonable or unreasonable have been met.Unfortunately they have this time overplayed their hand.They have snatched even the Temporary structures for the Amarnath Yatries .People of Jammu were always smarting under the high hndedness of Valley Muslims who always played tha Pak Card .Evn now Mehbooba has again hinted of taking te trucks to Mujaffrabad if the Bandh is not lifted .Fine go ahead to Muzaffrabad Mehbooba Sahiba if it sloves your problems.However she knows that Valley Leaders have been on fault.

Muslims in India have the great chance to speak up for India and once again for the Muslim brothers of Kashmir they too kept mum rather unconcerned.This sends the negative vibes to Hindus who question Muslims loyality to the Nation.

If Hindus rest over India take similar stand as the Hindus of the Jammu have taken then ???

Unfortunately there seems to be no sloution to this problem now.By the way how the demography of Kashmir would have changed if the Structures for resting for Hindu Yatries are erected for two months ?? It is plain plain dadagiri of Muslims of the Valley.

Now Indians say we don't want to tolerate this dadagiri any more.Well what further ? Pakistan's help -as if you Kashmiri Muslims are not not in Pakistan's lap ?

Sorry brothers enough is enough. Better Valley Muslims come back to the path of Sanity .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
30
ashok

the recent disputes in jammu and kashmir should not be doused, but should lead to some changes
at least.


aaa. jammu and ladakh should become independent states. muslims from these 2 states should immigrate to the valley.

bbb kashmir valley should get a special status-
awaiting further developments.

ccc the haj subsidý should be stopped.

thats the most that can be done at this time.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
29
Gidwani, are you one of these people who think that the horrendous violence in Kashmir these last 18 sickening years is the result of alienation resulting from deep( oh so deep) rooted underlying fundamental causes, including the fact that absolute perfect, pristine democracy doesn't exist there, and secondly, that Kashmir is India's only Moslem majority state living in a Hindu majority country?
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
28
Ashok from banaglore: To set the record straight, do not forget how a Kashmiri wolf was peresecuted and replied back by the Jammu's Dogra rajas' sheep while drinking water in Dal Lake!!!

Ashok, first work on your English language. Second, think before you write. Inanity gets you nowhere, least of all convey a cogent thought.
Rohit Gidwani
San Fransisco, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
27
Ashok,

>>>> "I am asking the BJP and the Parivar to keep their rhetoric down."
>> While Muslims like Omar, Yaseen, Geelani and Mufti's family are licensed to speak anything because, after all, they are Muslims.

Idiot, Ganesan's question was about the BJP and the Parivar!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
26
Gaurav,

>> The only language these Kashniri Moslems understand is that of the sword.

Are you planning to go there with your sword?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
25

http://timesofindia.ind...articleshow/3346781.cms
Rohit Gidwani
San Fransisco, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
24
Democracy does not apply to people who do not practice it themselves. Moslems have gained majority in Kashmir by lying, cheating, invading, ethnic cleansing and forced conversion of th original Hindu and Buddhist population. The only language these Kashniri Moslems understand is that of the sword.
Gaurav Gupta
San Luis Obispo, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
23
I salute the jammuites for having raised their voices against the oppression done to them by the Kashmiri muslims.not one among the pseudo secular politicians had raised their concern for the pandits driven away from their home state and still languishing for the climate to change.what right do these pseudo secularists have to talk now on the fire they had fuelled by the like of PDP.if Haj pilgrims can have special favours given to them why should a normal facility be denied to Jammuites for their amarnath shrine too.Better sense should prevail with the political leadership to understand the grievances and address them to satisfy the genuine aspirations of the locals there.Time for idle talks are over/ramachandran vn/usa
ramachandran v n
baroda, India
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
22
From the "hell".


http://www.dailypioneer...tate1.txt&counter_img=1


I really liked the army jawan who said this :"I salute the spirit of the people of Jammu. They are real warriors and show no signs of exhaustion and their protests are growing louder and louder."

The nationalistic army understands what the Jammu agitation is all about. One is reminded of Ayodhya. The army clearly understood what was happening on the ground before Dec 6th. The seculars and the Congress did not. The same appears to be the case now.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
21
The people of Jammu are fighting for the principles of true India.The atrocities committed by the Kashmiri Muslims against the Hindus cannot go unanswered.
Read more about this in Lies,lies and More Lies. The Campaign to defame Hindu Nationalism (ISBN 0595435491-available on amazon)
1234bharat
nY, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
20
Rohit Gidwani, your impromptu remark about the Dogras is silly and quite irrelevant to what's taking place in the present. The real issue now is how to counter Islamic terror and fundamentalism in Kashmir( and elsewhere) which is supported by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Leave the poor Dogras alone!
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
19
ganesan

sanghis may be bad but they are for us.

kashmiri muslims maybe good but its for their
islamic cause.

the choice is easy for us.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
18
To set the record straight, do not forget how Kashmiri Muslims were peresecuted by the Jammu's Dogra rajas!!!
Rohit Gidwani
San Fransisco, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
17
ganesan

most hindus in india have one opinion about muslims. the seculars have another. but
this view is gradually getting discredited.

i note that the intellectual scene in india is normally a decade behind that of europe. i doubt whether the mehtas, bhaumiks. the sanghvis have read many of the critical books on islam published in the west.. i doubt it.

their loyalty to secularism and socialism is
edged on stone. no no new thinking has emerged in
their wooden heads.

however ordinary hindus have become completely enraged at the biased and stupid views of the english media. after what has happened in the last few years, wrt terror bombings, the fuss
about tasleema nasreen, demonstrations against
danish cartoonists many feel that enough is enough.

the rabid muslims of the valley are the last straw. its time that we hindus dropped all pretense and showed our feelings of disgust with muslims. ´from a small and scared minority they
have grown to be a sizeable, agressive and dogmatic muslim entity, which uses threats and blackmail to achieve its agenda.

however the recent events in kashmir is
a wake up call. we should not be persuaded now
by hypocrtical calls for peace, patience to make any concessions .hindus have done so for decades
now. it has never been enough.

farukhi claims that the muslims have been enraged and humiliated for 50 years.so even the
countless efforts by communists and congress have not been enough.

as examples from the west show muslims have huge demands and expectations from foreign nonmuslim
countries.never from their own brother muslim countries like saudi arabia, who treat them like dirt.

its time to draw conclusions. nothing will please muslims, and they will always be a disloyal element in india.

it has taken hindus 60 years to realise this.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
16
>> "No one, it seems, has any idea how to get the genie back into the bottle."

Both sides are in an escalatory mood. That bodes ill for an early resolution.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
15
Ganesan,

>> All you can say is what a wonderful people kashmiris are.

They are no better than us. Some of them are as bad as the sanghis.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 10, 2008 12:00 AM
14
"What is your view of not just the rhetoric but the murderous assault on Bharat by the jeahdis in the valley and elsewhere? "

I can tell you what it is. Tone down the rhetoric, do not talk about such things. All you can say is what a wonderful people kashmiris are.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
13
Mr Anwar Patel

What is your view of not just the rhetoric but the murderous assault on Bharat by the jeahdis in the valley and elsewhere?

Or do you hold the view that secularism should be synonymous with just heaping abuse and insult on the kafirs.
Pradip Singh
stafford, uk
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
12
Why do India want Kashmir ?
The people in the valley are seperatist people who do not participate in indian electoral process as indicated by their voting figures . Indian goverment spent crores of taxpayer money to keep the people of Kashmir happy , result they have the highest standard of living in the counry . Thousands of Soldiers are killed in the valley and the cost of maintaining such an army runs into thousands of crores .
It is better for us Indians to keep away false pride and cede some Kashmir to Pakistan .
In order to politically sell this proposal we could ask some land in PoK's Ladakh region in return.
dheeraj
trivandrum, India
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
11
Lalit Bagai :

wrote " ..kashmir is not a part of india for all practical purposes.muslims there hate india, and we could not give a damn for them

i would spend 10 times more for a holiday in europe then visit kashmir. .. "

Sorry to say that you are beginning to sound like a COWARDLY HINDU from the Plains. As someone who has spent many childhood summers in Kashmir and then even as an adult have gone back from the US ( the last time in 1999 to watch the Kargil War firsthand ) let me say that there is no better place in all India and it is a sign of typical Hindu cowardice to give it up to Moslem invasion. And let me also add that as someone who has spent some time in Switzerland and Austria that the hiking and camping choices in Kashmir & Ladakh are no less exciting.

Be assertive man, don't hide out in Europe, go to Kashmir and take back what is yours !!
Gaurav Gupta
San Luis Obispo, United States
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
10
All of Kashmir is full of ruins/relics of its ancient Hindu / Buddhist past that the Islamic fundamentalists are trying hard to demolish ( just as the Taliban blew up the Bamian Buddhas ). Moslems have gained majority in the Kashmir Valley by cheating, lying, invasion, mass murder, forced conversion, ethnic cleansing and wholesale rape of Hindu women ( all prescribed in the Koran as the preferred way to propagate their DEVILISH CULT ). Even today the Moslem majprity Govt in Kashmir is exploitng the fig lef of Jammu and Ladakh being part of it to carry out their typically Islamic genocidal policies in the Valley, in Ladakh ( forced convesrion of Buddhists using funds provided by Delhi ) and even in Hindu majprity Jammu ( dscrimination in state investmentsm job etc ).

Glad to see that the Hindus of Jammu are no longer taking the outrages committed by Moslems lying down. The only way to treat Moslem Jihadis ( and that is 99 % of them ) is to corral them like the WILD ANIMALS that they are. Much as one may dislike Israe ther walls around the West Bank seems to be the only way to control mindless Jihadi violence.
Gaurav Gupta
San Luis Obispo, United States
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
9
Ganesan,

>>>> "The need is for all to keep the rhetoric down."
>> Then shut up and stop criticizing the BJP and the Parivar. Will you?

I am asking the BJP and the Parivar to keep their rhetoric down.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
8
Real cause between Jammu and Kashmir region is economical,that is why Muslim Of Jammu region supporting Hindu of Jammu.
Government of India always show soft corner to Muslim of Kashmir.This is a always trend of government of India that those who take agrressive staunch government surrender to him.
Long long ago Mahatma Gadhi confessed that he always behaved softly to Muslim,that was my beggerest mistake, same mistake our Indian government repeating from last sixty year
Ramesh Raghuvanshi
pune, India
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
7
"The need is for all to keep the rhetoric down."

Then shut up and stop criticizing the BJP and the Parivar. Will you?
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
6
Ganesan,

>> The Anwars and the Kumars, while lecturing us, never criticize such statements.

The need is for all to keep the rhetoric down.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
5
"kashmir is not a part of india for all practical purposes.muslims there hate india, and we could not give a damn for them"

That is something the secularists refuse to admit. One just has to see the statements of "moderates" like Abdullah and PDP leaders to understand this.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
4
ganesan

kashmir is not a part of india for all practical purposes.muslims there hate india, and we could not give a damn for them

i would spend 10 times more for a holiday in europe then visit kashmir.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
3
"In fact, it has spread to places where the parivar has no presence. "

Tell that to the Kumars and Farukis.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
2
""The Muslims here have never felt comfortable with the Kashmiri Muslims... they look down on us. We feel the ASS is fighting for a just cause," federation spokesman Suhel Qazmi told Outlook. "

I believe this to be a true statement. The arrogance of the muslims in the Valley is such that it alienates even fellow muslims.

People who whine about the muslims in valley never bother about the muslims in Jammu.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 09, 2008 12:00 AM
1
""Don't lose Kashmir for just 800 kanals of land," is seen here as yet another attempt to blackmail the government. "

The Anwars and the Kumars, while lecturing us, never criticize such statements. ATleast I have not seen them in the last few days. The advice is always to the Hindus.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
COLLAPSE COMMENTS   
Post a Comment
You are not logged in, please log in or register
ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SUBSCRIBE | ADVERTISING RATES | COPYRIGHT & DISCLAIMER | COMMENTS POLICY