PTI
Response
'Cold-Blooded Murderers'
'I read the email, purportedly from 'Indian Mujahideen', with increasing dread and disgust. Dread for what it can cause, and disgust (and worse) for the minds that created it...
For The Record
The edited text of the impugned email that was sent to various media outlets minutes before the blasts in Ahmedabad by a group that intelligence agencies are calling a front to deflect attention away from ISI and other non-India groups
Indian Mujahideen
We shared the email from "Indian Mujahideen", received by some media outlets minutes before the blasts in Ahmedabad on July 26, with Professor Naim and wondered if he might want to comment on it. Given the inflammatory potential, and the readers' right to be informed about the contents of this email, we also solicited his views on whether or not it should be published in full as it clearly seemed to be aimed at stoking communal passions so as to set off a conflagration. This is Professor Naim's response. We hope to share more responses from others in the days to come

***

I read the e-mail with increasing dread and disgust. Dread for what it can cause, and disgust (and worse) for the minds that created it. It also made me aware, more than ever before, of the constraints under which press must work.

It is a carefully prepared document, by someone who is fairly well educated and informed. The English has only a few errors. The arguments are made in a 'rational' manner, showing the 'cause' first and only then the 'effect.' The document is laid out and printed with care and expertise. The two signatories must be quite 'modern.' They may even take pride in being so good at controlling modern (Western) technology.

The writers wish to project a facade of calm, deliberate thinking, but they do lose it several times. Their anger and feelings of hatred take over. Of course, they are not themselves victims of the crimes they mention. They are self-appointed revenge-takers, with no thought for what their actions might bring to many more innocent people even on their side of the religious divide, not to mention the innocent non-Muslims whom they intend to make targets of their hatred.

Most of the 'villains' they list by name and charge with specific criminal deeds are indeed villains. But the self-proclaimed 'Mujahids' expose their imbalanced thinking when they generalise and accuse undifferentiated groups. To their own mind, of course, there is no imbalance. For them the entire world is divided into four groups: themselves, the Righteous; their enemies, the Kaffirs; the traitors among their own, the Munafiqs; and the rest of their own who must fit themselves into one of the preceding categories before they could count for anything. Otherwise the latter don't matter to the writers one bit. That's how all fascists think. Come to power, their first targets will be women and children.

How does one respond to what they write? (this is in response largely to the portions that we have excised, at least for now, from the 'Indian Mujahideen' email which appears as a link at the bottom of this page)

On 'facts' they are not wrong. The verses they quote are in the Qur'an, and the translations are well accepted. The liberals introduce History when they interpret, placing every verse in some 'historical' context; the fundamentalists take the verses literally and as universally applicable. For them Qur'an is above history. Their translations or interpretations also do not employ such expressions as 'metaphorically speaking,' 'symbolically speaking,' and 'psychological truth.' Anyone who charges them of putting 'God's Truth' into a context not intended at the time of its revelation is wasting his breath. But that's what Asghar Ali Engineer and C M Naim will do in a knee-jerk fashion. Beyond that, we may only hope that by doing so we succeed in convincing at least a few among the Mujahids' intended Muslim audience to think in terms of their own lived and felt religion, i.e. the Islam of their mothers and grandmothers along side the Islam of their fathers and grandfathers, the Islam of the indigent and weak, the Islam of the sufis, the Islam that puts faith in a God who is foremost 'Most Gracious, Most Merciful.'

One cannot hope to convince the writers of the pamphlet of anything. One can only hope to limit their influence. That's where Asghar Ali Engineer and C.M. Naim serve no purpose. The burden lies entirely on the Ulama of Deoband and Nadwa, and on the qazis and muftis in large and small towns. I deliberately leave out people like the Madani brothers and the heirs of Banatwala and Uwaisi–they are unscrupulous political beasts, as much interested in power as the writers of the pamphlet, though in different ways. Asking them to do something would only give them undue public attention. Common Muslim is to be protected from them as much as from the Mujahids. But the former should be asked to stand up and be counted. And they should also be asked to restrain themselves within secular laws when they start declaring Ahmadis and Taslima Nasreen and Salman Rushdie infidels and heretics and therefore to be hurt and harassed. 

Remember in Pakistan the downward slide in its polity began when the 'socialist' Z.A. Bhutto converted the Pakistani parliament into an inquisition and had Ahmadi Muslims declared non-Muslim–just to save his own hold on the state. It is a slippery slope to perdition, this business of mixing religion and politics.

Should you publish it?

Do you always publish everything that comes to you for publication? What would I do if I were in your position? At this moment I would not put the pamphlet on the web, though I'm sure a Google search tomorrow or day after would show that it is being read in abundance. I would send it to the Mufti of Deoband, with a formal request for a fatwa. 'The people who make these claims in the name of Allah and His Prophet and cause bloodshed and disharmony between people in the land where they live, are these people righteous Muslims?' 

To my mind, they are cold-blooded murderers. They are also pathetic in their anxiety to be seen as the sole perpetrators of these crimes. If they were any different, they would come forward and take the 'credit' and its consequences publicly, thus saving innocent people from being killed in a spiral of vengeful killings. They are both cowards and criminals. 

My asking for a fatwa against them is not a political act; it's an appeal to the Ulama to take some bold and sustained steps against the menace that will eventually destroy them too. They have access to mosques, pulpits and madrassas; only they can make them secure. Their fatwa will not make any difference to these 'modern' Mujahids, but it may give some comfort to the victims and will strengthen those among the pious who wish to condemn and oppose this monstrous subversion of their religion.


C.M. Naim is Professor Emeritus, University of Chicago

For The Record
The edited text of the impugned email that was sent to various media outlets minutes before the blasts in Ahmedabad by a group that intelligence agencies are calling a front to deflect attention away from ISI and other non-India groups
Indian Mujahideen
 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Aug 06, 2008 12:00 AM
59
faruki

many muslims have top positions in european corporates. there are quite a few good professional amongst them-in medicine, engineering and business, i know a few myself.

however there are great differences in being
educated and well off vs being liberal and modern.

muslims are fine in the first and poor wrt modernism and liberalism.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 06, 2008 12:00 AM
58
Ashok,

>> the zaleel harqat of these Jaleels have the unique distinction of bringing pride and good name to Islam and Muslims in all global schools.

This from a guy whose heros are Godse and Modi!!!
At least I did denounce the Jaleels, but I have never seen you denounce Bajrangibabu or Vanzara. As I said you are just a gutter variety hatemonger.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 06, 2008 12:00 AM
57
Ashok,

>> The fact of matter is that Muslims like Kafeel/ JAleel/ Raqeeb etc.

First you claim that Muslims don't care for education. When told that Muslims are making headway in education, you right away bring up Kafeel and Jaleel. Don't you have any sense of shame or decency at all?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 06, 2008 12:00 AM
56
Ashok,

>> The all-round experiences in any society will show that Muslims don’t like to educate themselves with modern education.

Your hate has made you blind. Only a minority of both Hindus and Muslims pursue higher education. If you should visit ivy league universities in America today you will see a good number of Muslim students and faculty. The same applies in England and France. For the past several years, in India there have been repeated calls from Muslim religious and non-religious leaders asking Muslims to emphasize education, education, education. What is very pleasing is the number of times I have seen names of Muslim girls among the top 5 or top 10 scorers in various exams, scoring 85 or 90% marks. In this year's UPSC exams for civil service, 27 Muslims passed (including one madrasa trained one!). This is less than 4%, but is better than several previous years. As a hate propagandist, it is your job to look for negatives in the Muslim community. You have to keep hate alive. Facts on the ground however are different.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 05, 2008 12:00 AM
55
05/08/08

"All better known to anti-Muslim bigots like you than to most Muslims!"

Naturally we should be better informed about our enemies; I am doing it for the safety of future generations.

How come no comment about the truth ferreted out by Sherlock Holmes. You can not charge Holmes is racist.
Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Aug 03, 2008 12:00 AM
54
Ask any idiot how Islam was spread, and he'll tell you that it was not through peaceful preaching as Jesus and Buddha did, but by waging violence, death and destruction, just as it's written in the Muslim holy book. As for the claim that these people have misinterpreted the meaning of the words contained therein, that's one huge pile of dung- it is what it says it is. If further proof is needed, there's over a millennium of the historical record for the asking.
Forget about religious revisionism- it's time Muslim Umaah started talking about about tolerance, pluralism and respect for other faiths as equals- live and let live, like very such pronouncements made by the Vatican recently. Muslims must do some serious introspection as to what they want from their religion- hate-filled exhortations to 'jehad' and world domination of Islam, or peaceful coexistence with other faiths- the choice is now theirs!
Bodh
Springfield, United States
Aug 02, 2008 12:00 AM
53
faruki

you are right. most muslims do not know the koran. they can nit read in any knowledge.

but arab speaking dr sultan has condemned the koran. take this matter of evil vs good in the koran with her.

thank fully you seem to respect her, you sly
man.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Aug 02, 2008 12:00 AM
52
Vinod,

>> use this forum to spread the dirty Talibanism.

If you cannot tell the difference between a Talibani and me, you probably can't tell your elbow from your a.. either.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 02, 2008 12:00 AM
51
Ravi/Thiagan,

>> It is not select verses; there are four hundred of them.

All better known to anti-Muslim bigots like you than to most Muslims! How much does the sangh pay you to do your dirty work? Or are you doing it because of a sickness? Get a life!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 02, 2008 12:00 AM
50
02/08/08

Anwar says:
"One could post selected portions from scriptures of other religions too if one was involved in hate propaganda like you."

It is not select verses; there are four hundred of them, which children are forced to study and memorise in madarassas. No wonder they are converted into killing machines. Besides Churchill, this is what another eminent person said about Islam.

"Unlike many in the 21st Century Capitalist Democratic Free West, Sherlock Holmes in the 19th Century would already have had the precise and correct full measure of Islam, the Koran and Mohammad. "They form an ever darkening triangle and therefore must be dealt with accordingly..."

“What is the object of this circle of misery, violence and fear? It must have a purpose? Or our universe has no meaning, and that is unthinkable. But what purpose? That is humanities great problem, for which reason so far has no answer”. Sherlock Holmes.

“My dear Watson. The facts are quite clear. Islam is essentially and irredeemably apocalyptic and has been distilled in the monstrous Koran as a clear guide to waging asymmetrical warfare for the single purpose of a global Caliphate. To this end, anything, and I do mean anything is permissible. And the creator of this…this "filth" of Islamism?"
A hideous and hallucinating bandit, a mass murdering liar, a paedophile, a Jew hating super anti-Semite and rapist called Mohammad. Perhaps the greatest beast in history.

“A rabid madman, Holmes!”

“Precisely Watson. If his doctrine is followed as profoundly stated in the Muslim unholy book, and as Mohammad himself empirically always behaved, we are Holmes, staring blindly into the... abyss”.

“What can we do Holmes? The challenge seems, if you don’t mind me saying so, impossible and unwinnable”.

“My good Doctor, I do not know what other’s may do, if anything. But I intend to operate only from the facts and from these, and only these, I plan to utterly destroy the power of Islam over the West”.

“But Holmes, we are only two! The majority of London is... oblivious!”

“Well then Watson, we must wake them from their delusions and wilful naivety or all free people shall perish and disappear from this earth. The truth is to be found in such abominable monstrosities as the terrifying brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex..."

The author is Sir.Arthur Conon Doyle.
Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Aug 02, 2008 12:00 AM
49
Ashok,

>> Anwar Patel and his co-religionists are willing to kiss the a** of a Maulana.

Not me, but you seem to kiss the a** of your sangh pracharak everyday memorizing all the party lines he has fed you, then regurgitating the stale stuff here.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 02, 2008 12:00 AM
48
Ravi/Thiagan,

>> I am not purveying hatred.

As a professional hate spreader, all you do is purvey hatred. One could post selected portions from scriptures of other religions too if one was involved in hate propaganda like you. I hope I never fall so low.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 02, 2008 12:00 AM
47
02/08/08

Anwar says:
"It is amusing to see.........."

I am not purveying hatred. The verses do and here is the sample:

"9:73, O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.
9:111, Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an
9:123, O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
22:9, (Disdainfully) bending his side, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah: for him there is disgrace in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire).
Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Aug 02, 2008 12:00 AM
46
Prof Naim should know that just during this year, all the Ulema of Deoband, Nadwa, Bareili and 60,000 more, gathered in Deoband for a two day conference on TERRORISM's UNFOUNDED LINKAGE WITH ISLAM. A historical "Deoband Declaration" was announced, which was for a change, given good coverage by our electronic and print media.

This declaration condemned and made any terror act as unlawful and outside the purview of the teachings of Islam. So any terrorist sympathizer should take a leaf from this, that Islam is the religion of the Creator Himself, and it shuns violence or killing of women and children, destroying of agricultural land, unwanted bloodshed, even on a battlefield.

Im sure most of the Sanghi's here would give it a different spin. But what the heck.. This has become normal on these pages.

Arif Jameel
Dubai, UAE
Aug 01, 2008 12:00 AM
45
Ravi/Thiagan,

>> The theology underlying Islam enjoins muslims to kill the infidels.

It is amusing to see a two-bit anti-Muslim hatemonger like you act as a maulana in this forum! Your ignorance is fully equal to your hatefulness.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 01, 2008 12:00 AM
44
01/08/08

T.Sathiamurthy says:
"We have to understand clearly that all the Muslims in India are not supporters of this terrorism. Most of them want to lead a peaceful life with other communities because they know well that there is no other land in this world that could offer them that kind of life."

How do you know? The theology underlying Islam enjoins muslims to kill the infidels. The verses are there in Ali Sina website to see. Their clerics espouse violence methods to eliminate others; Islam divides the world into believers and infidels; infidels have no space for a normal life; they are either dhimmies and pay jazia and get killed or convert. How a muslim can be peaceful and law abiding when the Book ordains him otherwise? The observation is naivette at best and apologist at worst. Muslims live very well in UK; draw on their welfare, housing,other comforts and then make vocal demands for Londonistan. Muslims have to be violent, illiterate, unproductive and separated from others, if they want to follow the Book. To consider an opposite view is sure method for suicide.
Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Aug 01, 2008 12:00 AM
43
Ashok,

>> These two-faced "innocent" & "moderate" Muslims do not even denounce terrorism unequivocally during day time.

It seems there is no limit to your lying. That is a good attribute to have for a professional hate propagandist like you.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Aug 01, 2008 12:00 AM
42
J,

>> Evidence is in Bangalore, Ahemadabad, Surat, Jaipur, Vararnasi,.

Evidence of, " These two-faced "innocent" & "moderate" Muslims denounce terrorism during day time and carry out Jihadi activities during night."??? Get a reality check!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
41
GF/Anwar,

>>Produce evidence, or shut the f... up, you liar!

Evidence is in Bangalore, Ahemadabad, Surat, Jaipur, Vararnasi,........ Do you still need more of it?

Even Pakistan condemned blasts. That doesn't rule out the possibility that Pakistan has a hand in it. Ditto for two faced "moderate" Muslims.

It is high time you took a break from reading violent texts. It is destroying your grey cells.
J
Bangalore, India
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
40
J,

>> These two-faced "innocent" & "moderate" Muslims denounce terrorism during day time and carry out Jihadi activities during night.

Produce evidence, or shut the f... up, you liar!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
39
ashok

imagine for a moment that the babri masjid was
still there in all its splendour.

how would it have effected the muslims.

happy,happy happy.

getting english schooling, joining universities-
tre bon.muslim women working in the increasing high tech, banking, services set up . wow.
sania, raheema, saba playing tennis, swimming ,
or excelling in sports.

men joining the dynamic indian economy, or getting good jobs abroad or in the middle east.
going to rock concerts.

or would it be the same as now. 5 times namaz,
demands for sharia, kill rushdie, deport tasleema.

why do muslims never stand up for reforms.
how about sania mirza. no so called modern muslim
stood up for her. she has just decided not to play tennis in india.

as rushdie said. if there are moderate muslims i cant see or hear them.

but always ready to make storms in tea cups, and ofcource much worse.

even muslims like faruki have problems in usa.
finland is one country which refused to accept
muslim asylum seekers. they have no debates
or problems.

all the countries which took in muslim immigrants
or refugess have problems with them.

you should read an article by irfan hussain in
dawn 30 th july 2008.

there is also an article by cowasjee on the
same date.

pakistan had lots going for it in the beginning.
a huge country for about 25 million people. support from western countries, help from saudi
arabia.

it is now a terrorist state, a criminal enterprise. its the resulting of muslim fanaticism, bigotry- and we have a similar number
of their kind in india.

let us not have any expectations from them.

i never read even one muslim in the media saying
anything rational or reasonable, at least by
european standards.

i am afraid that muslims in india will destroy themselves, and india will suffer along side with them.

lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
38
faruki

do you have date, place when 50 people were
burnt in a train.

by the way have you read the articles in dawn.

finally, from whats going on, muslims in bjp states should accept things as they are, make
compromises or face increasing problems.

same will apply in foreign countries. muslims
being dogmatic muslims will be rejected by
their host countries.

however i do not think that conditions will get better. islam is a dogmatic and violent religion. muslims eg pakistan, afghanistan are
busy killing each other.

how about some indian muslims immigrateing to pakistan and other muslim countries.. after all they have much more in common with them.
its better then being unemployed or feeling
perpetually frustrated and angry.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
37
GF/Anwar,

>>You are a liar with proven record, besides being a hatemonger.

You are the biggest foulmouthed liar and hatemonger. Even Goebbels would have been proud of you.
J
Bangalore, India
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
36
A K Ghai,

>>THE FACT STILL REMAINS THAT THESE TERROR TEAMS WERE SHELTERED IN INDIA ,PROVIDED LOCALLY LOGISTICS AND TRANSPORTED BACK SAFELY TO PAK.WHO SHELTERED THE KILLERS ??

Who else but "innocent" Muslims! These two-faced "innocent" & "moderate" Muslims denounce terrorism during day time and carry out Jihadi activities during night.
J
Bangalore, India
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
35
Ravi/Thiagan,

>> is the only religion in the world that permits lying and cheating...

You are a liar with proven record, besides being a hatemonger.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
34
31/07/08

Anwar says:
".........you are pronouncing that Godhras happen too often!!! All you have shown before in this forum is your capacity to lie and your single-minded hatemongering."

I have told you that the hate mongering starts with the verses and Islam is the only religion in the world that permits lying and cheating, if it is further the cause of Umma.

Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
33
>>the Gujarat government lawyers made a very poor showing when the Nanavaty Commission got to considering the Godhra train fire. They tried to present evidence of a conspiracy, but apparently they had nothing...

How do you know ? Any proof ? The findings of the commission are not made public yet.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
32
Ashok,

>> Do you, Anwar Faruki, have the guts to say that Islam, your religion has no role to play in your day-to-day life?

A stupid question, but I would say about average for an Indian. That means that many Hindus have a lesser role for religion than I, and many Hindus have a greater role for religion. So what big point have you proved, birdbrain?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
31
Ashok,

>> They have all faith in quasi-judiciary probes of Banerjee type...

The Banerjee Commission confirmed what the Muslims knew all along.

>> TWO bogies full of human beings were burnt to death by accidental fire, when they could have easily opened the doors of the compartments

A couple of years after Godhra, there was another train fire in which 50 people died. Train fires are not a rare event. The Gujarat government lawyers made a very poor showing when the Nanavaty Commission got to considering the Godhra train fire. They tried to present evidence of a conspiracy, but apparently they had nothing. But the Nanavaty/Desai commission will probably support everything that the sanghi goons want. After all it was a senior Gujarat government counsel, Pandya, who told Tehelka that Nanavaty was in it just for the money. And Desai is the same judge who released on bail several of the worst murderers during the massacre. As Bajrangibabu said to Tehelka, "Modiji got me Judge Desai, so I could go home". Is this the kind of justice that we should have in India?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
30
Ashok,

>> Muslims can't be magnanimous in saying "Let's Call it a day. Yes, you make a Ram Temple at Ayodhya, Krishna Temple in Mathura and Shiv Temple...

Just a minute ago, you claimed that Hindus are not very religious!

And the very idea that flakes like you will then be satisfied is preposterous.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
29
Ashok,

>> However, there is one major difference -- Religion.

It is hilarious when a birdbrain tries to pose as a thinker! If the guy wants to make a fool of himself, let him!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 31, 2008 12:00 AM
28
yakoob

right on the dot.

common sense, compromise, give and take are foreign to islam. preference is for killing and
destruction instead of compromise.

instead of a bruce springsteen concert which is considered a sin, you have hundreds of thousands demanding death for tasleema or rushdie.

a cartoon about mohhamet is looked upon with deadly seriousness, sania,s short skirts raises the hackles of millions of believers, demands
are made by muslim kindergarden teachers to wear head to toes burqas. some of the demands are ludicrous- there is a fixation about women going astray, something seen in primates.

after the end of communism, the world has a new problem. another hundred years will be spent resolveing this issue.

now stop drinking and go to bed.
lalitmb
kalundborg, Denmark
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
27
The main diabolical objective of the Islamic Terrorists from across the border is to break India into smithereens and to achieve that nefarious end, they aim to drive a deep wedge between the Hindus and Muslims in India and establish a bitter malevolence between them that would, in their mind, ultimately destroy the country; a wickedness that they could not do in the open warfare. So far they have secured a measure of success because by killing thousands of innocent Hindus and destroying their properties with their brutal terrorism either directly or through their local hirelings supporting their cause, they have created some bitterness between these two communities. We have to understand clearly that all the Muslims in India are not supporters of this terrorism. Most of them want to lead a peaceful life with other communities because they know well that there is no other land in this world that could offer them that kind of life. Most of them are as patriotic as others. Are we not having brilliant Muslims in sports, education, science, medicine, public services etc who keep our National Flag flying? If we want to defeat this terrorism, let us bear in our minds that we have to unite and fight together instead of distancing ourselves from each other and fighting at each other. It is only a minuscule fraction of the muslim community in India, particularly the misguided youths who, brainwashed by mad doctrinaire and lured by money have sold themselves to the treacherous designs of the foreigners. It is not late even now. we have to start a new chapter to bring fraternity and brotherhood between the Muslims and Hindus in India to defeat the deviltry of foreigners and save our Motherland. Mr.SASI KC, in a recent posting elsewhere, had opined that India would ultimately come out of this inferno much stronger than ever before. Let us take the first step in that direction for the sake of our country.
T.Sathyamurthi
Folsom, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
26
>>The Banerjee Commission decided the fire was accidental. So the parivaris now vilify Justice Banerjee!>>

Yeah, LALOO wanted his M-Y (Muslim- Yadav) combine to vote him to power once again.

Therefore this important sop to the Muslims- see ALL YOUR CRUEL DEEDS ARE WHITE WASHED!

And, Banerjee, like the MPs in the trust vote, is still counting all the money he got.


Sadly, this is the extent to which Hindus will go. Some rajas even assured Aurangzeb that they would destroy all the temples in their own kingdom as long as the Mughals didn't attack their kindoms!!! Too nauseating ...

sandy
Mumbai, India
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
25

My Top Cop Award
----------------

# Nothing to panic though lives have been lost. The coordination, collaboration, and communication between the States and the Center must resolve this issue on a timely manner.

# In the name of National Security, the Ministers/Politicians should come together bumping their parties, realizing their children/grand/great grand children are living in the same region where these bombs are planted.

# These attackes will only make India united. The types of resources what India has is more than sufficient in controlling these acts.

# The Police force must be released from the Politcal Will. The Police must be indepedent to punish criminals - whoever it may be.

# Legal, Judicial, Criminal, and Police must be above / away from those illeterate/skewed politicians/ministers. THIS WILL TAKE CARE OF 75% OF INDIAN SECURITY SYSTEM.

# There should be a yearly budget in upgrading the Security System (Legal, Judicial, Criminal, Police, etc) as in Defense Budget.

# There should be a continual quality recruitment, new young blood, inter-state co-operation, exchanging intelligence among states without the political rivalry...etc.

# There should be a RANKING among the State Police like how we have in Cricket ICC RANKING.

# There should be a NATIONAL SECURITY AWARD for the top 3 State Police forces and the Top Cop of the year.

# The Top Cop of the year must be felicitated as how we felicitate filmy / sports heroes. The public also must be a jury of the selection process, else it will look like how Raveena Tandaon grabbed the national award once.

# India has all the RESOURCES and SOLUTIONS in hand. It's the POLITICAL WILL, Minsitreal INTERFERENCE, and bureaucratic RED TAPISM that screws the quality forces to function their duties.

It's high time, the Domestic Security System (Police and others) are liberated from the POLITICAL SHACKLES.

India has solutions; it only needs a vision that CUT ACROSS every one else for the sake of its people....

Jai India!
Sasi KC
Reston, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
24
Ashok,

>> refuse to accept the reality of Godhra if even Supreme Courts says so.

The Banerjee Commission decided the fire was accidental. So the parivaris now vilify Justice Banerjee!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
23
Ashok,

>> Gujarat Riots case is a settled one.

For all except the blind!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
22
Ashok,

>> You said the same thing to me.

As hate merchants go, you are down there with the worst of them.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
21
Ashok,

>> Muslims have 'causes' when even the 'roots' don't exist.

There is a lot more root-cause theorizing in your own thinking than you realize.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
20
Ashok,

>> My objection to Kureshi's stament was that it was wishy-washy and based on cause-effect theory of Muslims.

Absolute rubbish! What he said was that instead of treating Godhra fire as a matter for criminal investigation and punishment of those found to be guilty, it was made into an occasion to inflict punishment on a whole community, and that such a response only begets similar counter-responses.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
19

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/jul/30ahd7.htm


'IB identifies Pak-based masterminds

Vicky Nanjappa in Bengaluru '
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
18
'Who carried out the blasts at Ahmedabad and Bengaluru? Investigating agencies say they were masterminded by two Karachi-based men -- Rasool Khan Parti and Mohammad Sufiya Ahmed Patangiya.
The duo, who currently reside at Farahan Arcade Gulistan in Karachi, are originally residents of Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh. Prior to fleeing to Karachi, the duo were involved in recruitment of youth for jihadi activities in Hyderabad and other parts of the country. They were both allegedly members of the Harkat-ul-Jihad-al Islami, but recruited youth mainly from the Students Islamic Movement of India.'

THE FACT STILL REMAINS THAT THESE TERROR TEAMS WERE SHELTERED IN INDIA ,PROVIDED LOCALLY LOGISTICS AND TRANSPORTED BACK SAFELY TO PAK.

WHO SHELTERED THE KILLERS ?? TILL THE HARBOURERS ARE EXPOSED POOR INDIAN MUSLIMS WILL BE UNDER SUSPICION RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY.

The theories that 'prove first involvement of Muslims and then accuse' etc none bothers.Even Muslims know and admit that they have been pushed into corner by their leaders,their inteligensia,by clergy who went on exploiting mindlessly Babri,Gujrat Riots,Banerjee Report etc for their personal gains.THIS DID NOT ALLOW THE WOUNDS TO HEAL & INCREASED THE SUSPICION MOREE MORE AND MORE BETWEEN HINDUS AND MUSLIMS.TIME AND AGAIN BLAMING BJP ,HINDUS FOR ALL THE HURLDLES FACED BY MUSLIMS RESULTED IN TWO THINGS :ONE HINDUS AND MUSLIMS WERE NOT ABLE TO INTERACT SOCIALLY DUE TO PERPETUAL DIVIDE AGENDA SPREAD BY MUSLIM LEADERS.Secondly the mutual trust compeletly destroyed.

WE CAN SEE EDUCATED POSTERS DAY IN out CURSING BJP. Hindus consider this veiled attacks on them .

NOW TELL ME SIR WHAT NEXT ?? BOTH THE COMMUNITIES ARE IN OPPOSITE SEGMENTS AND NO WAY THEY WILL COME NEAR.ON THE OTHER HAND BLASTS AND ISLAMIC JEHAD HA SCOMPELETLY HARDNED THE ATTITUDE OF HINDUS .

Does the REHNUMAS OF MUSLIMS can now guide us how to remove the DARK shadows of GADDARS looming upon MUSLIMS' HEADS ??

THE BLASTS HAVE HAPPENED IN GUJRAT WHERE THE RELIGEOUS DIVIDE WAS never ALLOWED TO BE NARROWED BY YOU . Yesterday SURAT WAS ON THE VERGE OF TOTAL DESTRUCTION. HAD THE BOMBS EXPLODED WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED ?

And we have criminal minded posters here saying that not the Terrorists but BJP itself did this henious crime .If these are the friends of Muslims then ALLAH MALIK hein !!

'Jis Karvan ka Rehbar Rasta bhula ho ,

Khuda hi oos Karvan ka Hafiz ho '

(Only GOD can save the Races whose Guides /Leaders have lost their sense of Direction )

a k ghai
mumbai, India
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
17
Even those Jihadis themselves know how BS is that so-called 'root cause theory'. They still use it why?

Not meant for the Indian Media, they are already been paid their pie of petro Riyals and Missionary USD/Euros for being condusive to Jihad and be anti-Hindu

Not meant for International Media, they don't care Hindus massacred like this anyway.

Surely not meant for Hindu audience, after all they are a self-hating callous spineless lollipops.

It is meant for straightening out their audience in their own community who tend to be dicey and lost themselves out into the idea of India and other Materialistic fun in the World.

As they jubiliantly claim that J&K is just a gateway to their Islamization of India, Hindus will continue to ponder and puzzled out with this propoganda for some more decades.
Narayan
Zurich, Switzerland
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
16

Yakoob/Parbat/Ramdas/Abdullah/Thomas,

Nobod
y has been as bitter a hate merchant as yourself in this forum, especially in your Thomas and Abdullah avatars. Your cynicism in trying to have fun at the expense of those who post in this forum is deplorable.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
15
Ravi/Thiagan/Estee,

>> The problem in the case of muslims is Godhraas are happening too often.

So you are back with a new ID with your sermons of hate! The cause of Godhra train fire is still a matter of debate, but here you are pronouncing that Godhras happen too often!!! All you have shown before in this forum is your capacity to lie and your single-minded hatemongering.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
14
>> The arguments are made in a 'rational' manner, showing the 'cause' first and only then the 'effect.'

I sincerely hope that the professor put the words rational, cause and effect in quotes because he does not see them as such.

Correlation does not mean causation and even if one could establish a causal relationship, the direction of causality could very well be the reverse.
Sriram
Chennai, India
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
13
kumar >>>
History will not judge a person on the basis of one lone statement a person utters. What is the overall ideology, drive, vision, mission, rhetoric, work, contribution etc of the person?


Then why don't you and your ilk take it easy and let history judge modi ?
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
12
30/07/08

Atul Says:
"He said that an illegal act (as the one by those who burnt the Karsevaks bogies) should have been taken up by authorities as a criminal act and speedily settled."

The problem in the case of muslims is Godhraas are happening too often; it is Surat today. That is when the others are getting disgusted and riots break out. The same situation is there in France and other small EU countries and in Australia, where muslim minorities have become unmanageable. Riots are waiting to happen in those places.

In Australia both Christian and Muslim immigrants from Lebanon have come and settled. The Lebanese Christians have integrated well, have themselves educated and two of them Governors of Provinces. The Lebanese muslims, even third generation, have not learnt English and remain a sources of illegal activities, besides gang raping the western girls. One Bilal Skaf has become the brand ambassador for gang raping and an influential Imam made the remark that western girls who are not in burkhaa are immodestly dressed and invite rape. He said they are like uncovered meat and only cats will come and eat. Followers of Islam are a problem world over.
Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
11
Ashok,
What is wrong with Kureishy's statement?

He said that an illegal act (as the one by those who burnt the Karsevaks bogies) should have been taken up by authorities as a criminal act and speedily settled. The revenge in Godhra was not the answer. Similarly no other retaliatory strike serves any purpose-ultimately.

Law and it's enforcement -strict and speedy is the only right answer. The other answer is mutual annihilation till both lose all energy.
Atul Chandra
mUMBAI, INDIA
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
10
30/07/08

"On 'facts' they are not wrong. The verses they quote are in the Qur'an, and the translations are well accepted. The liberals introduce History when they interpret, placing every verse in some 'historical' context;"

The problem in this interpretation is:

> muslims will have to accept that some of the verses (around four hundred of them) are event related and do not have universal application. They will never do that.
> Ahemediaas propagate this interpretation and both Sunnis and Shiaas call them apostates and are persecuting them world over.
> Such a meaning has never been preached in the mosques and madarassas and is unlikely to be done in future.
> The aim of Islam is world domination and universal imposition of shariaa and the above interpretation will not factor into that scheme.

Islam is a religion, a political movement, contains a set legal code called shariaa, has a scheme of finance and a social structure in which other religionists has no space. First the religion comes like the camel's head into the tent and the others will slowly move in and the original inhabitant will be out.
Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
9
30/07/08

Kumar says
"The chances of Congress committing an anti-sikh atrocity again or indulging in anti-sikh communal rhetoric (or ‘anti’ any religion/tradition for that matter) is about zero."

That is because another Sikh assasinating a member of the Nehru family is nil. In the case of muslims, the chances of another Godhra is very real; it is being enacted today in Surat. Jihad is a continuous process for eliminating non muslims and for the establishment of world wide Caliphate and for the universal imposition of shariaat.The Hindu aggression is reflective of Islamic violence and it is necessary if you are interested in self preservation.
Ravi
Los Angeles, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
8
>> At the height of the anti-Sikh riots in 1984 Congress leader Rajiv Gandhi said: “When a big tree falls, the earth will shake.” History seems to have forgotten his statement

History will not judge a person on the basis of one lone statement a person utters. What is the overall ideology, drive, vision, mission, rhetoric, work, contribution etc of the person? The party apologized for anti-sikh riots over and over again. The party has never been anti-sikh. It is said that Indira Gandhi persisted with Sikh body guards even though many advised against in (in the wake of operation bluestar) on the basis that removing the body guards solely on basis of their religion amounts to communal discrimination and stereotyping. The chances of Congress committing an anti-sikh atrocity again or indulging in anti-sikh communal rhetoric (or ‘anti’ any religion/tradition for that matter) is about zero.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
7
Long live CM NAIM
jaleel
luknow, India
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
6
Ashok (to Kureishy),

>> Falling back to spurious root-cause theory.

Which you do unabashedly all the time!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
5
It seems to me that seeking fatwas is rather pointless.The best response to these mujahideens should be rational and based on principles. "By taking revenge through killing innocent civilians, you perpetrate the same crime against which you seek to protest.If killings of Muslims in Gujarat was criminal, it was so primarily because an unlawful revenge was inflicted on a hapless population. The law should have taken its course, and people should have revolted against a system that allowed it. It was painful when this process did not take place in full measure. But resorting to bombngs and killings replicates the same crime and violates the principle that you seem to espouse- that innocents should not be killed. You should join the small but couragous people from all communities who have struggled for justice through democratic, legal and peaceful means".
Salman Kureishy
Dubai, U.A.E
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
4
While various Muslim leaders and organizations have condemned terrorism in recent months, they should now emphatically denounce the E-mail letter of the so called Indian Mujahideen as a document that advances a perverse ideology of hate and revenge. Indian Islam should move in the opposite direction towards peace, tolerance, secularism and progress.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
3
>One cannot hope to convince the writers of the pamphlet of anything.

But one can hope to crush the writers of the pamphlet and their followers. Be ruthless and relentless in dealing with the scumbags.
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
2
"That's where Asghar Ali Engineer and C M Naim serve no purpose. The burden lies entirely on the Ulama of Deoband and Nadwa, and on the qazis and muftis in large and small towns"

Wonderful. So why Outlook wasted its time and energy in getting an opinion from someone who serves no purpose?
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM
1
"Most of the 'villains' they list by name and charge with specific criminal deeds are indeed villains."

Touche!! And this

"ut the self-proclaimed 'Mujahids' expose their imbalanced thinking when they generalise and accuse undifferentiated groups. "

Apparently the dude is OK if the villians mentioned are specifically targetted. He appears to oppose only the generalisation. And this is a liberal muslim. Allah Bless.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
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