Exclusive Essay
Will India Become A Superpower?
The leading historian offers seven reasons why it will not. And then, to this objective judgement, he adds the subjective desires of a citizen—that it should not even attempt to become one.
A specially commissioned essay for Outlook

Sixty years ago, in the summer of 1948, our nation, then newly born, was struggling for its very survival. In January, Mahatma Gandhi had been murdered by a Hindu fanatic. The act had shocked many Indians, but apparently it had the approval of some. According to one news report, the jailed assassin, Nathuram Godse, received an average of 50 letters a day expressing admiration for his action. This was part of a much wider right-wing, religious, reaction against Partition. Hindu and Sikh refugees from Pakistan were calling for retribution against the Muslims who had stayed behind in India. The relations between the two communities were poisoned further by the tribal invasion of the state of Jammu and Kashmir. With the raiders aided and equipped by the Pakistani army, the religious conflict had, inevitably, become a national one. A bloody battle was on in the high mountains of the Himalaya, as the Indian Army sought to rid Kashmir of the intruders.

Six weeks after Godse fired those three shots from a Beretta pistol in New Delhi, the then undivided Communist Party of India (CPI met in a secret conclave in Calcutta. At this meeting, the leadership of the CPI was taken away from a gentle and very cultured Kumaoni named P.C. Joshi. Joshi wanted the Communists to collaborate with Jawaharlal Nehru's government in building the new nation. His replacement, an austere Maharashtrian named B.T. Ranadive, believed on the other hand that the transfer of power from British to Indian hands was a sham, and that Nehru and his men were puppets of the Western imperialist powers. He took the Communists towards a new 'people's war' line, which mandated the overthrow of the Indian State through armed struggle, and its replacement by a single-party dictatorship.

In June 1948, the infant Indian State looked very fragile indeed. It was pierced from the left by the Communists, and pinched from the right by the Hindu extremists. And there were other problems aplenty. Eight million refugees had to be resettled; provided with land, homes, employment, and a sense of citizenship. Five hundred princely states had to be integrated, one by one, a process that involved much massaging of egos (for the Maharajas tended to think very highly of themselves), and just a little coercion.

The task of princely integration was in the hands of Vallabhbhai Patel and his outstanding secretary, V.P. Menon. Some rulers were willing to immediately join up with the new Dominion. Others waited in the hope of better terms. And some princes were actively hostile. In this very hot summer of 1948, the ruler giving the most trouble was the Nizam of Hyderabad, who was probably the wealthiest man in the world, and without question the most miserly. He insisted that the independence of his (very large and very badly administered realm) had been guaranteed by the British monarch; and that he would now negotiate a separate treaty with His Majesty's Government, which would assure the State of Hyderabad its political sovereignty.

British politicians, Winston Churchill among them, were egging on the Nizam to declare independence. That was a truly dangerous possibility. For, as Sardar Patel observed, an independent Hyderabad would be "a cancer in the belly of India", cutting off communications between the north and the south of the country. Despite the ruler's ambitions, it was clear that the majority of the people of Hyderabad State wished to be citizens of a free India. After waiting a year for the Nizam to come to terms, Patel sent in the Army and compelled him to join the Union.

Few Indians now alive know how uncertain our future looked in the summer of 1948. The question then being asked everywhere was 'Will India Survive?' Now, 60 years down the road, that fearful query has been replaced by a far more hopeful one, namely, 'Will India Become a Superpower?'

This new, anticipatory, expectant question has been prompted by the extraordinary resilience, in the long term, of India's democratic institutions. When the first general elections were held, in 1952, they were dubbed the 'Biggest Gamble in History'. Never before had universal adult franchise been tried in a poor, divided, and largely illiterate society. Evidently, it is a gamble that has worked. The country has successfully held 14 general elections to the national Parliament, as well as countless polls to different state assemblies. Rates of voter participation are higher than in Western democracies. And after what happened in Florida in 2000, we can add that the conduct of polls is at least as fair.

Back in 1948, doubts were also being cast about the Indian experiment with nationhood. Never before had a new nation not based its unity on a single language, religion, or common enemy (or, preferably, all of the above). However, all Indians did not have to speak Hindi or be Hindus. They did not even have to hate the people who colonised them (in fact, Mahatma Gandhi, the Father of the Nation, counted an Englishman, the Christian priest Charles Freer Andrews, as his closest friend). As an inclusive, plural and non-adversarial model of nationalism, the idea of India had no precedent or imitator. It set itself apart from European nationalisms, which were based on a common language and, often, a shared faith and common enemy as well. Thus the citizens of England were united by the fact that they all spoke English, that they were mostly Protestant, and that many of them disliked France and the French. Likewise, the citizens of Poland spoke Polish, were almost all Catholic, and often detested Russia and the Russians. (In this respect, the idea of Pakistan is wholly European, based as it is on the privileging of a single religion, Islam; of a single language, Urdu; and, not least, on a collective hatred of the larger nation to its east.)

In the words of the political theorist Sunil Khilnani, India has been "a substantial bridgehead of effervescent liberty on the Asian continent". As such, it inspires hope that the largely poor, still divided, and formerly colonised countries of Africa can likewise move towards a more democratic political system. Meanwhile, through its collective coexistence of different faiths, languages, cultures and cuisines, India is a better model for world governance than more homogeneous countries such as China, Japan or the United States. Once, the heterogeneity of India was seen as its greatest flaw; now, it may justly be celebrated as its greatest strength.

India was not expected to survive as a democracy; but it has. India was not expected to hold together as a single nation; but it has. These manifest successes, achieved against the odds and against the logic of human history, have compelled a worldwide admiration. If calls are now being heard that India must be made a permanent member of the Security Council of the United Nations, then these demands are not just legitimate, but also overdue. It is India's long-term record as a stable, multicultural democracy that lies behind its claims for a place on the High Table of Global Affairs. But if politics were all, then we would not be asking whether India will become a superpower. That question is prompted also by the spectacular success, in the short term, of the Indian economy, the impressive growth rates of the past decade, the entrepreneurial drive manifest in such crucial, cutting-edge sectors such as information technology and the creation of an ever larger and ever more confident middle class.

Superficially, the summer of 2008 looks all too different from the summer of 1948. Then, we Indians did not know how long we would hold together as a single nation; whether we would come under a Communist dictatorship of the left or a theocratic regime on the right, or simply balkanise into a dozen or more different parts. Now—despite the dissensions in the borderlands, in Kashmir and the Northeast—we know that we are and will be a single country, whose leaders shall be chosen by (and also replaced by) ourselves. We no longer fear for our existence as a sovereign nation or as a functioning democracy. What we hope for instead is a gradual enhancement of our material and political powers, and the acknowledgement of our nation as one of the most powerful and respected on earth.

Look more closely, however, and perhaps the more things appear to change, the more they are actually the same. For, in the summer of 2008, the Indian State once more faces a challenge from left-wing extremism. The Prime Minister of India, no less, has identified the Communist Party of India (Maoist), known more familiarly as the Naxalites, as the "greatest internal security threat" facing the nation. The Union home ministry lists more than 150 districts as being 'Naxalite-affected'. This is an exaggeration for, with even one single, stray, incident, a state government is moved to get a district listed under that category, so as to garner more funds from the Central treasury. Still, the Naxalites do have a considerable presence in some 40 or 50 districts; these spread out over the central and eastern parts of the country. Their greatest gains have been among tribal communities treated with contempt and condescension by the Indian State and by the formal processes of Indian democracy.

The conventional wisdom is that the erstwhile Untouchables or Dalits, are the social group who are most victimised in India. In fact, the tribals fare even worse. In a recent book, the demographer Arun Maharatna compared the life chances of an average Dalit with that of an average tribal. On all counts the tribals were found to be more disadvantaged. Some 30.1 per cent of Dalits are literate, but only 23.8 per cent of tribals. As many as 41.5 per cent of Dalits live below the official poverty line; however, the proportion of poor tribal households is even higher, at 49.5 per cent. One in six Dalits has no access to doctors or health clinics; as many as one in four tribals suffers from the same disability. 63.6 per cent of Dalits can avail of safe drinking water, but only 43.2 per cent of tribals.

Two summers ago, I visited the districts of Dantewara and Bastar in the state of Chhattisgarh. Here, a civil war is under way, which pits the Naxalites on one side against a vigilante group promoted by the state government on the other. The revolutionaries identify with the tribals in the short term, fighting for better wages for forest work and against their harassment by petty officials. Their long-term goal, however, is the capture of political power by armed struggle. In their bid to plant the Red Flag on the Red Fort in New Delhi, the revolutionaries view tribals merely as a stepping stone, or, one might say, as cannon fodder. The Maoists use violence regularly and recklessly. Policemen are slaughtered in their police stations, civilians killed by land mines set off on main roads. Their treatment of dissenters is especially savage; they are tried in 'people's courts' and then sentenced to amputation or death.

When I was in Bastar, the Nepali Maoists had just declared a ceasefire. Their leader, Prachanda, had gone so far as to say that multi-party democracy was the political system most suited to the 21st century. I put it to a Naxalite ideologue we met that perhaps they could think of emulating their Nepali comrades. He was contemptuous of the suggestion. He insisted that in India bourgeois democracy was a sham; here, the state had to be overthrown through the use of force. Shortly afterwards, I came across a statement on the Internet, issued by Ganapathi, general secretary of the Communist Party of India (Maoist). This reported the 'successful completion' of a party congress "held deep in the forests of one of the several guerrilla zones in the country...". The party congress "reaffirmed the general line of the new democratic revolution with agrarian revolution as its axis and protracted people's war as the path of the Indian revolution...". The meeting "was completed amongst great euphoria with a call to the world people: Rise up as a tide to smash Imperialism and its running dogs! Advance the Revolutionary war throughout the world!"

Tragically, the vicious and violent methods of the Maoists have been reproduced by the state government of Chhattisgarh. They have set up a vigilante army called Salwa Judum, composed of tribal youths equipped with rifles. Bands of vigilantes now roam the Bastar countryside accompanied by the police and paramilitary, in search of Naxalite sympathisers, alleged or real. They have attacked dozens of villages and burnt hundreds of homes. They have killed many innocent people and terrorised many others. With the Supreme Court, as I write, are some first-hand testimonies of villagers who have suffered at the hand of these state-supported vigilantes. The residents of Pakela village, for example, recorded that 20 of their homes had been burnt by Salwa Judum cadres. "Everything in the homes," reads the English translation of their evidence, "rice, clothes, utensils and money—got reduced to ashes." Other villagers offered more precise accounts of the damage, listing the number of paddy sacks or hens or pigs seized or burnt from individual households. The collective sentiments of those targeted by the Salwa Judum were expressed most poignantly by the residents of Korcholi village. They said:

"The frightened villagers of Gangaloor, Cherpal and Bijapur, seeing the Salwa Judum, have fled into [the] forests. The Salwa Judum burns the food stock, houses and clothes. They also break the cooking utensils. Raping women, slitting people's throat to kill, killing people by drowning them in water, robbing them etc are the main activities of the Salwa Judum leaders. Why is this happening in our country, why is this happening in Chhattisgarh? Why has the Chhattisgarh administration been running this? Has our chief minister been elected only for this?"
The creation and consolidation of Salwa Judum has greatly increased the level of violence in Dantewara. Villagers are being forced to choose one side or the other. Those who hesitate to join the vigilantes are savagely set upon. In the past two years, close to a thousand people have died as a consequence of the conflict. Meanwhile, the Salwa Judum and the state government between them have forcibly uprooted some 50,000 villagers and put them in camps along the main roads.

An atmosphere of fear and terror pervades the district. Families, clans, tribes and villages are divided by the civil war. As ever, it is the innocent who suffer most. For, the majority of villagers are not interested in this fight at all. They have been dragged into it, willy-nilly, by the Maoists on the one side and the Salwa Judum on the other. As one tribal in the village of Nelasnar told me: "Hamein donon taraf se dabaav hai aur hum beech mein pis gaye." It sounds far tamer in English—pressured from both sides, here we are, squeezed in the middle.

Salwa Judum is a model of how not to fight left-wing extremism. The menace of Naxalism—and let us be clear about this, it is a menace—can be tamed and tackled in two ways: by prompt and efficient policing, and by providing the tribals a greater share in political power and in the fruits of economic development. Unhappily, even tragically, the tribals have become the main victims of economic globalisation. In the days when the state occupied the commanding heights of the Indian economy, the adivasis lost their lands and livelihoods to hydel power plants and commercial forestry schemes. Now, they lose their lands and livelihoods to mining projects which excavate the vast amounts of iron ore and bauxite found on or under land the tribals live on, but whose ownership (or rights of disposal) are claimed by the state. Non-tribal politicians hand over these resources to large firms, foreign and Indian, in exchange for a share of the proceeds. All that the tribals get, in exchange, is dispossession.

In naming themselves after Mao Zedong, the Naxalites hope to do in this country what that Chinese revolutionary accomplished in his—that is to say, to build a single-party dictatorship that calls itself, in Orwellian fashion, a 'People's Democracy'. This dream is a fantasy, but, since the Maoists are determined to play it out, a bloody war of attrition lies ahead of us. The Indian State will not be able to easily recapture the hearts and minds of the adivasis, nor able either to authoritatively reassert its control, by day and especially by night, in the territories where the extremists are now active. At the same time, if the Maoists try to move into the open country, they will be mowed down by the Indian Army. But in the hills and forests of Central India, the conflict will persist, without any side claiming a decisive victory. In the next decade, thousands of lives will be lost, some of policemen, others of Naxalites, the majority perhaps of adivasis caught in the crossfire.

There is then this serious threat posed by left-wing Communist extremism. And—as in 1948—there is also a serious threat offered by right-wing religious fundamentalism. However, while the Naxalites are implacably opposed to the Indian Constitution, the religious bigots work within the democratic process, seeking to divert and distort it. The word 'Hindutva' was coined by the revolutionary-turned-reactionary Vinayak Damodar Savarkar. The most effective work in pursuing the political philosophy that bears this name was undertaken by his younger colleague Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar. Golwalkar was head of the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS) in the first, formative decades of Indian independence. He was preceptor and mentor to, among other men, Atal Behari Vajpayee and Lal Krishna Advani, as well as countless other political activists who have occupied positions of influence and importance in different states of India.

Golwalkar's core philosophy is contained in a book entitled A Bunch of Thoughts. Published in 1966, this is a collection of addresses delivered in RSS shakhas across the land. The book consistently elevates Hindus to a superior place in the history of humankind. Hindus had once ruled the world; and they would do so again in the future. Their science was once superior to Western science (Golwalkar sneered that the Europeans were eating raw, uncooked meat while we Hindus were composing the Vedas); and so it would be again.
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Daily MailPublished
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Jun 28, 2008 12:00 AM
134
In the days of global knowledge where everything is available across nations, the concept of superpowers is slowly diminishing. No one country can have everything. India was obsessed with power at one time due to the haves and have nots. Nowadays, as long as governments do not mess up, any thing is available in any place in the world, thanks to the internet, as far as knowledge is concerned. What is needed is access to the knowledge and harnessing it. This is based on education and infrastructure. That is where each country, state, city can play a role. India is getting investment from all the major companies. It lacks in colleges due to colleges being based on government. This leads to all the problems. If one sees the top colleges in the world, they are rarely public colleges. Private education based on good faculty needs to be developed in India for this to be sustained. However, there is no need for India to seek to become a superpower. That concept is a dying one. The minute one country becomes expensive, the countries that invest go to another. That is the advantage of a global economy with the internet where one can invest anywhere and move products around for the cheapest cost.
Prakash
San Francisco, United States
Jun 27, 2008 12:00 AM
133
Before we go weak at the knees on Guha's tour d'horizon (love that brown sahib latin phrase),
I suggest we look at the answers others have found for India.

"Knowledge as weapon"
http://tinyurl.com/4qwfpm

"IITians ar big fools"
http://tinyurl.com/3gpdy2

"Life is cheap"
http://tinyurl.com/5fy9bj


Money quote:
"This much, then, is certain: people fight their struggles for survival based on what knowledge they can create. Each one of the reports and studies cited above (and numerous others that have not been documented in both rural and urban areas) indicates that ordinary working people have the capacity to learn, to collect information, to look at it analytically, and eventually use it for bettering their own lives. This is, or should be, the central objective of "education". And yet, these are simple (and yet very complex) tasks that are not undertaken by our educational institutions. Didactic instruction, memorising by rote, and vomiting out useless information for futile examinations
constitute the fundamentals of what passes for education in our schools and colleges. Perhaps there is a purpose to
it all. Perhaps another Macaulay is required to explain it to us in yet another Minute. And perhaps, in some not too
distant future, a group of young labourers will learn to document their own lives to tear this farce to pieces."

Give me a true follower of The Mahatma over a latter-day Nehruite saint any day.
Narasimhan M.G
Bangalore, India
Jun 27, 2008 12:00 AM
132
Please leave poor ISI-Joseph alone- he's such a perfect heaven-sent for comic relief. Besides, isn't it just great to find a Pak-person so interested and gung-ho on India's fortunes? Yes, oneit's really divine - he should be selected for a Padma-something MEDAL or some such like.
Yes, Mr ISI-Joseph, hit us with you best shot, as the song goes - just can't wait!
Bodh
Springfield, United States
Jun 26, 2008 12:00 AM
131
You are improving in your timing Mr Joseph Karachi Pakistan. Please do some fine tuning. Mr. Vinod will help.

BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 26, 2008 12:00 AM
130
Welcome Joseph of Karachi. Bouncing ball returns to his city of choice on 30th. July, 2008 and will be pleased to share, one day later, some Afghani, Bihari and Kasturi Kabab and Tandoori Paratha with you at the following address.

Bar-B-Q Tonight
Comm.5/1, Boating Basin, Block 5, Clifton, Karachi
Ph. # (92-21) 5832841-5867280-571673
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04:23:19PM (IST)
09:30:00 (less)
----------------
06:53:19AM (ET)

You have improved your skill at cheating as I got up at around 08:30:00AM (ET) here and made my first observations a little later.

The best math teacher at St. Gregory's, Lakshmi Bazar, Dhaka told us two things. One, it requires skill and brains to cheat, and, two to cheat like hell, as every one cheats, but not to get caught.

Sadly Joseph, you are useless at it.

What do you say, Mr. Vinod?.

BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 26, 2008 12:00 AM
129
>> I support the efforts of Mulayam Singh Yadav in his attempts to build UNPA .. Why not ? His ex minister colleague who announced a prize of 51 crores

I support the formation of third front as part of my support to strengthening of democracy. If the people want to punish Congress for price-rise, corruption etc and do not want to vote BJP, they should have a legitimate option. UNPA is the example I have taken.

>> Looks like you have not heard of names like wafa sultan, ayan hirsi ali , salman rushdie or even taslima nasreen.


I support the freedom of voice of all the names you mentioned. Guha cannot be equated to these people. My simple point is, it is foolish to call an intelligent, sensible, reasonable person like Guha as anti-hindu etc (as if Guha does not have a right to decide what religion he belongs to). Hinduism has diverse groups and all groups have to be embraced, instead of dividing as hindus and anti-hindus (with the more sensible ones like Guha falling on the anti-hindu side!).

>> To say that muslims are kept out due to religion is a lie.

To the people who say that Muslims are getting more benefits (just because of a token Hajj), I am demonstrating the case that on the contrary, in spite of being more backward socially/educationally/economically than hindu dalits, just being a Muslim is preventing them to get the reservation which they would have if they are hindu dalits. I am not saying that there is a deliberate religion based discrimination, but due to technical problem of being identified with religion rather than caste, this has happened. The bulk of reservations and other welfare schemes are for the hindus. I am setting the perspective right on the wrong charge that muslims are getting more benefits (there by making any help to them difficult) when the opposite is true.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 26, 2008 12:00 AM
128
>> Wrong once again. As per mandal report., many muslims also benefit if they qualify on these parameters. To say that muslims are kept out due to religion is a lie.

This is correct. Mandal report recommends reservations on the basis of caste. OBCs belonging to other religions enjoy the same privileges as Hindus.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
127
kumar

hey you are the typical born again christian, who has a inbuilt grudge against hindus, and wants desparately any one to rule india who is against hindus.

lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
126
kumar

bangalore

by your own criteria all poor and backward people qualify for reservations and concessaions
ie 85 % of the population.

your not being a hindu by religion, makes you
biased, and unable to debate with reason.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
125
>> I support the efforts of Mulayam Singh Yadav in his attempts to build UNPA.

LOL. Why not ? His ex minister colleague who announced a prize of 51 crores on the danish cartoonists head can be Indias cabinet minister for home as well as culture.

And these are supposed to be the liberals preaching tolerance to hindus.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
124
>>No other religion would do that to a person like Guha.

you are such a pathetic joker. Looks like you have not heard of names like wafa sultan, ayan hirsi ali , salman rushdie or even taslima nasreen.

lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
123
>>what about temples where dalits are not allowed, ??

which temple are you referring to? Government controls temples through muzrai department. Any dalit , who if refused entry into any temple can file a case in the nearest police station today. So what rubbish are you talking about? On the other hand religious places of muslims and christians are not touched by the same department.

>>Or what about cases where dalits are allowed access to water in a village etc?

Such discrimination is punishable under existing laws. Show me one similar aw where discrimination in muslims can be punished.

>> Same applies to things like dowry or opposition to inter-caste marriage, education of the girl-child etc.

There are very severe laws to deal with dowry. Inter caste marriages are not banned in India and happen all the time. Education for girl child is an universal goal and only idiots will see a hindu / muslim angle in it.

>>The Hindu Succession Act of 1956 does not give gender-equal right to property, right to residence etc.

As of today hindu succession act is gender equal. On the other hand governmewnts can't touch the personal laws of muslims.If you are so bothered by what hindu law was in 1956, why not fight for an equally gender sensitive law for muslims , as that of hindus today? Can you ?

>>the idea of gradual reform is seen in all societies and sometime time needs to be given for society to evolve...

LOL. Hindu laws have been tinkered with. How many more decaded or centuries do you think muslims need to eveolve ? And why should they be given this extra time at the cost of nation?

>>I agree though, that in case of Islam it is more difficult..

In that case , your energies are better spent fighting that more difficut battle. Why do you pick on hindus , who are soft targets and more importantly who are already reforming? Write against similar practices amongst believers..even atthe cost of fatwa on your head. Can you & will you?

>>Reservation is based on the socio-educational-ecomonic backwardness of a group

Sorry . You are wrong. reservation for SC/ STs enblock was due to the historical discrimination they faced in hindu society. It has no other defining factors you are mentioning.

>> Here we are seeing a situation where a group qualifies based on socio-educational-ecomonic backwardness criteria, but religion being muslim being the sole criteria for not qualifying

Wrong once again. As per mandal report., many muslims also benefit if they qualify on these parameters. To say that muslims are kept out due to religion is a lie.

>>even budhism/sikhism do not believe in caste for that matter)...

LOL. The question was whether muslims practice untouchability today , to justify the term dalit muslim. And 2 wrongs never did make a right.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
122
>> There are many aspects of hindu reform that the govt. goes slow on ... Can you give specific examples ?

Well, the example given was women in mosques. To take a similar example, what about temples where dalits are not allowed, did the govt. send army/police to fix it? Or what about cases where dalits are allowed access to water in a village etc? Police take action but not drastically (may not help always, for example the dalits may be dependant on the upper castes of the village for livelihood - so a harsh action may be counter productive). Same applies to things like dowry or opposition to inter-caste marriage, education of the girl-child etc. Though there may be laws in some cases, you do not see harsh and forceful implemenation except in exceptional cases. The Hindu Succession Act of 1956 does not give gender-equal right to property, right to residence etc. (When the amendment to correct some of the anamolies came in 2004, it said that it is applicable only to those women who are not married at the date of the amendment on the basis that women who were already married must have already received their share of property as dowry!). Some changes in attitudes are given time to change and the idea of gradual reform is seen in all societies and sometime time needs to be given for society to evolve. I agree though, that in case of Islam it is more difficult as it is more directly/explicitly linked to orthodox interpretation of religion.


>> Believers say Islam is egalitarian and does not have the practice of untouchability. So where is this oxymoron of dalit muslim coming from ?

Reservation is based on the socio-educational-ecomonic backwardness of a group (and in some cases, the discrimation still faced). Here we are seeing a situation where a group qualifies based on socio-educational-ecomonic backwardness criteria, but religion being muslim being the sole criteria for not qualifying (even budhism/sikhism do not believe in caste for that matter).
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
121
To call a fine intellectual and reasonable person like Ramchandra Guha as anti-hindu etc is height of stupidity and foolishness. No other religion would do that to a person like Guha. People may have political differences or there may be dalits/OBCs who want power etc, that does not mean that all of them are non-hindus or anti-hindus. Congress is right - it would consider Guha, Advani, MM Joshi, Lalu, karunanidhi, Mulayam, Mayawati, Deve Gowda etc as all as hindu if they like to call themselves as hindu (that is how we get 80% hindu) in spite of political differences. The Congress did a reasonably great job of unifying the nation and its diverse groups. BJP' is a very narrow vision of hinduism and is undoing all the good-will that has been so carefully developed. It is time a strong non-BJP opposition develops as an alternative to Congress (so that people can vote to that party if they are angry with Congress). I support the efforts of Mulayam Singh Yadav in his attempts to build UNPA.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
120
kumar >>There are many aspects of hindu reform that the govt. goes slow on.

Can you give specific examples ?

>>Almost all the special wefare schmemes, reservations etc are for hindus (especially dalits/OBCs).

Really ! Show one special welfare scheme designed only for hindus. OBC reservation and mandal reservations are applicable for qualifying muslims as well.

Believers say Islam is egalitarian and does not have the practice of untouchability. So where is this oxymoron of dalit muslim coming from ? And when there is no untouchability , why do they need reservation?

>>Muslims are faring even worse than dalits, but do not have reservations for the sole reason of being Muslims.

reservation for dalits was given to counter the discrimination they faced in hindu society . Islam is supposed to be egalitarian with no caste system. If they are faring even worse than dalits, it is for the musilm society to introspect. To blame the caste system of Hinduism for backwardness of muslims is stupid to say the least.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
119
I do not know you get this very silly notion of Pakistan being a very small country.

Before 9/11, it was ahead of India in almost every way and is still ahead in many things notwithstanding its many security concerns.

Living as you do in distant Bengaluru and with a closed Sangh Parivar mind, it is difficult for you to swallow the idea that Pakistan can provide good example and advice to India.

We can teach India many things as India can teach us. You need an open mind to understand and appreciate that.

BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
118

http://economictimes.in...d-3160809,prtpage-1.cms

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Kab seh meh keh raha hoon keh unees, bees ka faraq heh, yaar.

BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
117
Based upon the situation in 2004/2005 and the Power Index (PI), developed by me, the Power Blocks or Power Nations are as
follows.

Regions/Blocks:
---------------

a) North-East Asia with a PI of 23 is the most powerful region followed by EU (19), North America (13), and Saarc (12).

Nations:
--------
b) China with a PI of 15 tops among nations, followed by US (12), India (9), Japan (4), Germany (3.5) and Russia (2.9).

c) France (2), United Kingdom (2), Italy (2), Brazil (2), Indonesia (2).
------



BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
116
Would it not be wonderful if at the time China, the E. U., the U. S. A. and India share among them, almost equally, 60% of the World National Power that we have, simulataneously, a Single Global Currency?.


http://www.singleglobalcurrency.org/




BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
115
When he announced in the visa application that he was from Kartarpur, he was cordially taken home by the officer where his elderly parents were thrilled to meet with him. My uncle and the police officer's father were childhood buddies. It was not about India Pakistan, Hindu Muslim, it was about love, plain and simple.
------
I have to thank you, Mr. P. Paul. Such incidents are a regular happening. We need to visit each others countries to embrace the similarities instead of widening the differences. Thank You.



BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
114
P.Paul,

I appreciated your input.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
113
Reaslizing that I had already wasted my time reading Guha’s article, I did not mind further looking at some of the comments. It would seem like the villagers who came to a funeral were instead voicing their petty differences about each other. They did not know what to say about the still-born child and its undernourished mother.

Carried away by the milieu, I will tell you what Hindutva means to me. I found it in my formative years in East Punjab reciting “Ishwar Allah tero naam, sabko sanmati…” at my elementary school, reading short stories such as Panch Parmeshwar, listening to bhajans by Mohd Rafi, and more recently the recital by Abida Parveen of Amir Khusro’s Chhaap Tilak and other sufiana kalaam. I got truly emotional when I heard her sing “Meda Isaq vi Toon … meda sanwal mithra sham salona, man mohan janaan vi toon...”. Hindutva is a phenomenon, generally among peace-loving citizens, that takes over one in the fold of unique Indian-ness. No one has to force on people, it just happens naturally when you live together in peaceful environment. Not far back in time, Indian men across the country wore turban! Why do we always remember the bitterness of violent partition of the country caused by a bunch of inept politicians and lunatics and the then religious divide. Religion in India has always been a sensitive issue and prone to exploitation by those with vested interests. The division of the country will always remain a constant reminder of what people can do to the religion and its followers. Religion should be practiced within the four walls of the faithful’s home or place of worship and no one should impose it on others through public address system, visual demonstrations, processions, distribution of literature outside the community, and by any other means that should arouse denigration by others. As for the people on both side of the border, I have this episode to share: Years ago my cousin traveled across Pakistan to join his job in Kabul and found himself stranded because of a train strike. As was required of him, he went to the nearest police station to register and request extension of transit visa. When he announced in the visa application that he was from Kartarpur, he was cordially taken home by the officer where his elderly parents were thrilled to meet with him. My uncle and the police officer's father were childhood buddies. It was not about India Pakistan, Hindu Muslim, it was about love, plain and simple.

We should learn to respect friendship across races and religions. Any kind of hostility should be dealt with just and impartial laws of the land and their proper enforcement.
P. Paul
Kartarpur, India
Jun 25, 2008 12:00 AM
112
>> They are one of several separatist movements, and not all Kashmiri Muslims are separatists. Read this:

>>
http://www.hindustantim...t%27s+time+to+say+sorry


Oh yes. It is our fault. We should say sorry to the Kashmiri Muslims for the rape, murder and ethnic cleansing they have indulged in over the last few decades. We should apologize to them for granting them special status, and ensuring that they never try to integrate with the rest of the country. We should grovel before them and seek forgiveness because they love Pakistan more than India, just because they are Muslims.

Those who don't want to grovel before the Kashmiri Muslims can read this article

http://www.frontpagemag...-4E6A-B35B-FB60C906054F
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
111
>> how the BJP and Islamists are playing the roles they do and why. Can they be equated? Why?

Both are cauvinists, both are against constitution/law based on secular humanist values, both believe in use of violence, taking law into own hands, killing of innocents etc. In terms of scale/extent of intended use of violence the islamic terrorists are more dangerous. The hindu chauvinists on the other hand are anti-social-justice - they cannot stand the dalits/OBCs independently and strongly asserting themselves to positions of influence/power (and everyone who tries is automatically labelled as anti-hindu, anti-national etc).
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
110
India cannot become a superpower - it can't even feed itself - anymore than Guha can become anything other than a paralysing bore.

Guha as one of the 100 most influential intellectuals? God help us ! One of the 100 most ineffectuals, surely.
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
109
Arun (New Delhi),

>> in the 1946 general elections 86% of the indian muslims voted in favour of creating pakistan.

They are either dead or have gone to Pakistan. That election, by the way, was not a direct plebiscite for or against partition, although that is what is taught in the shakhas. The elections created a constituent assembly, which could have brought about a confederation, to which both the Congress and the Muslim League had agreed, but the Congress then reneged.

>> there is opposition to the enactment of uniform civil code.

A UCC would be good, but is not necessarily an immediate priority as the BJP is trying to make it out to be for election purposes. Major reforms in Muslim personal and family law will have to precede any realistic talk of UCC.

>> call for separate muslim quota in army judiciary and schools and govt jobs.

Muslims are like the Gujjars and the Minas, but since they are identified by their religion rather than by caste, they are considered to be less qualified for reservations. Many Muslim leaders want Muslims to compete openly rather than asking for reservations, but for some reason they do not come to the notice of our armchair critics like yourself.

>> the imam of bukhari has any number of times openly said that there would be a second partition and second pakistan.

He should be locked up.

>> you have to live as indians and not as pakistanis at heart.

The problem arises when people like you define what "Indians at heart" means!

>> the muslims of j&K are fighting for a separate muslim land.

They are one of several separatist movements, and not all Kashmiri Muslims are separatists. Read this:


http://www.hindustantim...t%27s+time+to+say+sorry



Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
108
One small clarification will be in order, as against the view of Dr. Ashley Tellis, I believe China is already a Superpower in view of its huge armed strength, its control over the entire East, its large trading volumes, its huge foreign exchange and gold balances and its control on the U' S. A.'s debt.

BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
107
You may like to, also, extrapolate the absolute nominal G. D. P.s of China, India, the E. U. and the U. S. A. at the respective compounded annual growth rates of 7.5%, 7.0%, 5.0% and 4.0% and find out when they are all about equal, if ever.

For my part I subscribe to my own studies on the subject and to that of Dr. Ashley Tellis and believe that the four Superpowers will be, some day, China, the E. U., the U. S. A. and India inthat order with around 15% of the World's Power each.

It is difficult to say when China and India will reach Superpower status. However, in his analysis, Dr. Ashley Tellis gives the U. S. A., the E. U., China and India, respectively, 20%, 14%, 14% and 9% whereas in a more recent study by me they get, respectively, 12%, 19%, 15% and 9%.

Clearly, India will take a generation or more to be a Superpower.

BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
106
As of March 6, 2008, Ms/Mr. Shapra, the G. D. P. per capita, expressed in International Dollars, is as follows.

India: 965
World: 8,125
Superpowers: 40,000 (say)

Indications are that India's G. D. P. will grow at 7% when adjusted for population growth will mean that G. D. P. per capita will grow by 5.68%. For the World, the equivalent growth rate is 4.46% and for the Superpowers that is the E. U. and the U. S. A., it is 3.48%.

You may like to extrapolate on your when India is likely to reach Superpower Status.



BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
105
Arun Maheshwari,

>> If we could become a more egalatarian people first...

Excellent post. We would do well to devote our efforts to being at peace with ourselves rather than to being a superpower. The real "super" superpwers may soon become a thing of the past. If we want to be one of the several "great" powers, we are almost there, but as Mr Guha points our, we have several internal factors weakening us, including the communalism of the sangh parivar and other communalist groups, the class warfare of the Maoists, and the casteist and dynastic politics of several of our national as well as regional parties. The forces that set us back and the forces that propel us forwards seem to be precariously balanced. Economic growth could conceivably help us transcend this morrass, but apparently has not done so yet.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
104
India is the sacred motherland of the Hindus. The Hindu religion was born here, the holy rivers flow here, the sacred pilgramage centers are all here. Even our super-secular governments refer to India as "Bharat". India may not be a Hindu theocracy, but India is the only homeland, the only Motherland of the Hindus.

India is well and truly onto becoming a great power. Disparity and deprivation are problems left over by a 1000 years of foriegn onslaught & 50 years of "India National" Congress rule. Slowly, but steadily India will overcome these.
shapra
Santa Clara, USA
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
103
All infiltration in to a country is, Mr. Arun, meant to be stopped by the Security Force of that country.

Please look in to the working of the Indian Security Force.

BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
102
the China, however, under its own enticing PLA opiate will continue to measure the size of their urine extracting instrument of copulation with that of US, as Guha has wittingly commented …
------
As I am totally home grown, educationally,- Bendur, Bandra, Saddar and Lakshmi Bazar, I shall be grateful to know what the above sentence is meant to mean. Thank You.

Actually, each word is fine but they have been strung along atrociously.



BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
101
As Goebells found out, Mr. Vijay Agarwal, the repetition of a lie does not make it the truth.

About "pests" in the neighbourhood, it takes two tango. Ask R. & A. W. and Mossad.



BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
100
Shantakumar,

>> if reformation of Hindus is the benign intent of the government then they should also attempt to reform other religions as well.

The indian consitution and the goal of UCC is just that. Some things take more time than others (cutting across religions). There are many aspects of hindu reform that the govt. goes slow on.

>> Leave that all alone Modi genuinely has done tremendous things in Gujarat. This bias against Hindus is hurting India at large.

In the democratic setup that we have, the people will judge. If there are people who think that Modi is responsible for violence, riots, communal hatred etc, they have every right to point that out. If the charge is true, then people of all religions will oppose it. It is a right vs wrong issue - not a hindu vs muslim issue (as the chauvinists what us to believe). If you do not speak for what is right/good, that will hurt India. It does not matter if the bad actions come from which section of society - the bad deeds need to be condemned and sidelined.


>> The question is whether such an act (by tamil nationalists) would be engineered against other religious groups

Again, you are fogetting that what we call "hindu" has a lot of diverse/opposing groups. Your version of hinduism is totally opposed to that of of tamil nationalists (though theoretically thet are also hindus). The imposition of your version on them, is hurting their religious sentiments equally. Similarly there may be dalits/OBC people who oppose Brahminism etc. Even they are called "hindu". Do they have a voice? Do they have sentiments? Do they have a right to oppose brahminism? Can they protest the fact that being a majority they are not sharing enough? If that opposition/protest is hurting your religious sentiments, what about their religious sentiments? Your concern is not going beyond the "religious sentiments" of the rich/powerful.

>> And that too only to its Muslim and Christian citizens? Why not Hindus? .. What happens to those millions of Hindus who starve.

Almost all the special wefare schmemes, reservations etc are for hindus (especially dalits/OBCs). Muslims are faring even worse than dalits, but do not have reservations for the sole reason of being Muslims. You are looking at just one aspect of Hajj which is a small token (and most of them can do without it).

>> Don't you think these are worth being taught to Indians so that they can feel proud of their heritage?

Yes. I did read about achievemens of civilization before Mughals/British in text books. If there are more that can be substantiated well from from objetive research, they can be added. It is desirable and no one will object to it. Also, let us focus equally/more on present and future achievements. It should not be like how some people keep harping about the 'islamic golden age' etc.


>> glossed over by the media(mostly owned by Churches, Muslims and Commies)

If you read any dalit publication, they will say that brahmincal forces control all the media. How many dalits/OBCs are there in the media? Do you have a concern that the majority population are not represented enough in all imporant places? As said, your views represent the the rich/powerful and their sentiments. Even Guha's article has this blind spot, though I agree with his centrist position.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
99
The democracy and the parliamentary system in India is going thru a very critical stage right now. The term "Dharma of Coalition" as it was coined back in early 90's has clearly failed to serve the national self-interest and people of India. This is quite clear in the way the Communist parties of various hues are exploiting their numbers in the national parliament to pursue their own agenda. The Congress government of Dr. Manmohan Singh is remotely controlled by its party president, an Italian born widow of late Rajiv Gandhi, son of Indira Gandhi and grandson of Jawahar Lal Nehru. Under this dynastic umbrage the sycophantic Congressmen and their PM lack the conviction and courage to lead the nation in a radically changed geo-political gridlock of 21st century where the liberal democratic value ethos (albeit Western) are being put to severe strain by the political systems which are essentially dictatorial and imperious in their mould i.e. the one party Han Communism of mainland China and the extremist Wahabi Islam.

Unless this Congress govt pulls up its socks (unlikely under its current leadership) very soon and for electoral reasons stop succumbing to those whose loyalties visibly lie outside India, the country most probably will have to pay a heavy price for its follies. Even if Marxists and its allies let it complete the full 5 year term in case it bites the bullet and finalise the 123 nuke deal with USA, it is unlikely that the govt will survive the 2009 elections which could prove to be a crucial test of parliamentary democracy in India as no party is going to emerge as clear winner. Be it Congress or BJP, it will have to live at the mercy of regional and not very like-minded satraps. A better alternative would be a presidential system in India much like US which only can bring the fractured national polity together under a genuine federal system.
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
98
Will we have a colony on Mars ?? May be. That's all.

Lets not waste dreaming about the future when the whole nation is bogged down by so many problems.
jaleel
luknow, India
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
97
"In June 1948, the infant Indian State looked very fragile indeed. It was pierced from the left by the Communists, and pinched from the right by the Hindu extremists."

What about Isalmist Terrorism & Christinatiy conversion mascare?
Devendra Patel
Ahmedabad, India
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
96
read:

In his long winded waffly narrative, Guha has basically used his literary skills to malign and unnecessarily drag into his seven reasons what he himself rather insidiously rants about without clearly elaborating, the “insidious presence of Hindutawadis”; along with Naxalite terrorism while conveniently ignoring the very obvious ones in our immediate neighbourhood who clearly do not wish India well at all.
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
95
A "super-power" in the modern context - about 300 years since Europeans left their shores to "discover" India and the Orient - simply boils down to naval/military supremacy, industrial prowess and economic strength.

So, while British along with French and Spaniards were the super-powers of 18/19th century challenged briefly by the Tsars of Russia or Hitler, the USA is undoubtedly the super-power now, challenged in the later half of the 20th century by the then Soviet Union after WWII; and currently in 21st century by China and the oil rich Islamic Middle East. Going back a bit to middle ages, for argument's sake, we had Ottoman and Mughal empires which in their own contemporary Middle Eastern/Balkan and Central/South Asian domains had all the essential qualifications of being classified as super-powers ...

In his long winded waffly narrative, Guha has basically used his literary skills to malign and unnecessarily drag what he himself rather insidiously rants without clearly elaborating, the “insidious presence of Hindutawadis” in his seven reasons; along with Naxalite terrorism and conveniently ignoring the very obvious ones in our immediate neighbourhood who clearly do not wish India well.

For, it is quite superficial to debate a case for India to be a "super-power" because, as of now no matter how much a hawkish Pentagon or White House could have grandeur dreams of a USA, we NOW live in a multi-polar world, and I doubt if a future US President or a White House (of any political complexion) again ever would dare to repeat a Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan ... the China, however, under its own enticing PLA opiate will continue to measure the size of their urine extracting instrument of copulation with that of US, as Guha has wittingly commented …
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
94
Anwar patel says that indian muslims are here because they are indians.in the 1946 general elections 86% of the indian muslims voted in favour of creating pakistan and vivisecting india!this is recorded history.and the voting percentage was as high as 78% even in distant madras and kerala!

The indian muslims did vote like this knowing fully well that most of them were not goint to migrate to their islamic paradise but would stick to the divided india only!

Even in divided india there is opposition to the enactment of uniform civil code.there is call for separate muslim quota in army judiciary and schools and govt jobs.the imam of bukhari has any number of times openly said that there would be a second partition and second pakistan.the muslims of j&K are fighting for a separate muslim land even while enjoying the highest share of income from the rest of india.

The indian muslims are silent to the massive demographic infiltrations of bangladeshi muslims into india and refuse to sing vandhemathram and refuse to hand over kashi mathura and ayodhya the three most hindu sacred places back to the hindus even though 20% of converted indian muslimsgot 35% indian territory as pakistan in 1947.
it is not enough to be living in india.you have to live as indians and not as pakistanis at heart.when you retain the pre partition muslim league mentality even in divided india what sort of indians and patriots you are?APJ abdul kalam is the only true indian muslim as for as i know!
arun
newdelhi, India
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
93
Well written Mr. Guha.

I agree to that the "aspiration" of being a "superpower" is misplaced. If we could become a more egalatarian people first and reduce the corrosive impact that caste has had on us as a people (society - culture) it would be a remarkable achievement. Otherwise, given how ugly the dance of power-powerlessness plays out in our society everyday (the Indian roads as a classical metaphor of this dance of power-powerlessness), if by mistake we do become a "superpower", the world would be re-shaped in the image of the Indian road - shudder!! shudder!! :-)

I also agree that the Hindutvawadis want to cast us in the same image as their favorite punching bag - the islamists and their "dark age" visions of nationhood. I guess when you hate someone, it is easy to become what you hate yet find subtle nuances to differentiate oneself or explain it as justifable reaction. The lesson they seem to be deriving from history, is to become like someone else. So just like pseudo-secularists they are pseudo-nationalist (or pseudo-hindus).

And so coming full circle, may be that is exactly why we can't be super-power - we are all uncomfortable with ourselves, trying to become someone else and hence a nation of pseudos of all kinds.
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
92
Intellectual cowards and arm chair writers like Ramachandhra Guha(Shame on him that he is using the sacred name of Shri Ramachandhra to deny to hindus and hindhu dharma their ancient wisdom)can not write anything better.these Meccallay educated missionary tutored fellows vomit whatever has been drilled into their dull brains at the public schools.but the truth is always away from what they think say and export.

Only people without any patriotism and nationalist feelings like the type of Guha would say that india should not become or attempt to become a super power.we have the richest ancient wisdom ,a gigantic human capital,hard working scientists,entreprenuers,intellectuals,hard working people so much of natural resources and above all crores of ordinary indians who still love their country and it*s sanathan dharma and want it to become great.India was a super power economically too before the britishers came to this country and looted it.in the 17th century the share of india in the world trade and export was to the tune of 23%.when the britishers left it was a mere 2%!india has numerous problems.which country does not have?but we can overcome them all and become not only a super power and number one country in the world.
what is required is self confidence discipline and faith in ourselves.we have been the cultural ambassadors to the entire world and established ourcultural supremacy without committing a single aggression!we have abdul kalams and pc alexandrs and if every muslim and christian becomelike them then there would not be any communal problem.the hindus have nothing to beashamed of except of hindus like ramachandhra guhas who are trojan horses confident less lackeys and boot lickers of the chrisitan missionaries and betray their own motherland for a few pieces of crumbs thrown at them by their masters here and abroad
arun
newdelhi, India
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
91
Dr. Ashley Tellis has included some non-quantifiable and subjective factors which could be the subject of bias.

However, his power centres are as follows.

In the SAG estimate, the United
States is first but hardly the only power. The United States holds about 20 percent of total
global power, and the European Union (EU) (considered as a unified actor) and China about
14 percent each. India holds about 9 percent; Brazil, South Korea, and Russia hold about 2
percent each. Moving toward 2015, the United States will first gain power, then decline
somewhat, ending up at about where it is now. The EU, however, will lose power, as will all
non-U.S. members of the G-8. The gainers will be China and India.
------
It is clear that at some point in the forseeable future the power of China and India will increase. China will, perhaps, become a Superpower about one whole generation before India.

As I see it, this will happen when the U. S. A., the E. U., China and India hold 15% each in terms of the Tellis estimation. India will climb at the cost of the U. S. A.



BouncingBall
CornellMarkham, Canada
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
90
Drivers of National Power
Domestic sociopolitical International political
Population Economic
Agriculture Energy
Technology
Environmental resources
and quality
------
India's very own Dr. Ashley Tellis uses these factors in his seminal work on Measuring National Power.

Joseph Pereira
Lawrenceville NJ., United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
89
In the size of its Armed Forces, too, India is a Superpower.

In the other areas, it has some way to go.

Joseph Pereira
Lawrenceville NJ., United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
88

Rank Country Reserves of foreign exchange and gold Date of Information
1 China $ 1,534,000,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
2 Japan $ 954,100,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
3 Russia $ 476,400,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
4 India $ 275,000,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
5 Taiwan $ 274,700,000,000 31 December 2007
6 Korea, South $ 262,200,000,000 31 December 2007
7 Brazil $ 180,300,000,000 31 December 2007
8 Singapore $ 163,000,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
9 Hong Kong $ 152,700,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
10 Germany $ 136,200,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
11 Algeria $ 110,600,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
12 Malaysia $ 101,100,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
13 France $ 98,240,000,000 2006 est.
14 Italy $ 94,330,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
15 Thailand $ 87,460,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
16 Mexico $ 87,190,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
17 Libya $ 79,600,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
18 United Arab Emirates $ 76,620,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
19 Turkey $ 76,510,000,000 31 December 2007 est.
-----
Here, too, India is a Superpower.



Joseph Pereira
Lawrenceville NJ., United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
87
Countries for which no information is available are not included in this list.
Rank Country Population Date of Information
1 World 6,677,563,921 July 2008 est.
2 China 1,330,044,605 July 2008 est.
3 India 1,147,995,898 July 2008 est.
4 European Union 491,018,677 July 2008 est.
5 United States 303,824,646 July 2008 est.
6 Indonesia 237,512,355 July 2008 est.
7 Brazil 191,908,598 July 2008 est.
8 Pakistan 167,762,040 July 2008 est.
9 Bangladesh 153,546,901 July 2008 est.
10 Russia 140,702,094 July 2008 est.
------
In terms of Population it is.



Joseph Pereira
Lawrenceville NJ., United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
86

Rank Country Area
(sq km) Date of Information
1 World 510,072,000 NA
2 Pacific Ocean 155,557,000 NA
3 Atlantic Ocean 76,762,000 NA
4 Indian Ocean 68,556,000 NA
5 Southern Ocean 20,327,000 NA
6 Russia 17,075,200 NA
7 Arctic Ocean 14,056,000 NA
8 Antarctica 14,000,000 NA
9 Canada 9,984,670 NA
10 United States 9,826,630 NA
11 China 9,596,960 NA
12 Brazil 8,511,965 NA
13 Australia 7,686,850 NA
14 European Union 4,324,782 NA
15 India 3,287,590 NA
------
I am trying my hand at determining in which areas India is a Superpower and where it is not and where it can not be.

In terms of Area it is.



Joseph Pereira
Lawrenceville NJ., United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
85
Considering that you are a very, very, very staunch Hindu, Mr. Vinod, your charges against Missionaries are totally unfounded as a matter of fact the Missionaries that taught you failed to teach you decency, manners, kindness and, even, good skills in English.

Joseph Pereira
Lawrenceville NJ., United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
84
Mr Guha would much prefer that India was poor and defenseless than rich and powerful, and admired the world over for it.
Worse, every other sentence in his 'essay' seeks to villify, demonize and denigarte anyone and any institution which seeks to protect, preserve Hindu culture and traditions-
the quintessantial "secularist" for whom being secualr means being anti-Hindu. During his entite diatribe against Hindu bigots, zealots and chuavinists, he somehow forgot to mention much anything about the fanatical Muslims living in India, who make no bones about not wanting to be "Indianized" - these are the same folks Guha characterize as members of the secular brigade.
To be sure India has survived many crises and has remained a democratic nation, but seeking to denigrate and destroy Hindus just to show-off to the world one's "secular" credential is even more repugnant.
Bodh
Springfield, United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
83
Mr. Ramachandra Guha is brilliant, Mr. Vinod, especially because he has arguments that support the view that the Sangh Parivar is one side of the problem.

He has equally strong arguments to establish that the Secularists are the other side.

India's problem is the immensely fractured state of its body politic.

Joseph Pereira
Lawrenceville NJ., United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
82
Where did you study, Mr. Vinod?.

Joseph Pereira
Lawrenceville NJ., United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
81
Does India wish us and China well, Mr. Vijay Agarwal?.

Joseph Pereira
Lawrenceville NJ., United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
80
Spain beat Italy at soccer, yesterday, Mr. Lalit Bagai and the Hispanics and the Espanols went ballistic here. Nobody doubted their patriotism. That is how it should be.

Joseph Pereira
Lawrenceville NJ., United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
79
Bagai,

>> you attack sarvarkar and golwalkar , and quietly ignore what jinnah and his merry men said and did.

You keep making the same old points after they have been answered 100 times. Do you have memory problems?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
78
kumar
bangalore

so you are against nationalism, and you are for
the majority community which identifies with this to step back, and leave the field for the
minorities, never mind if they have less concern for the nation.

what would india be like, if muslims could force
their own views, christians the same, whilst the majority community steps back, and let the country go to pot.

ask the britts to do this , or the germans.i dont think they will agree. in fact you are expressing your lack of confidence in us hindus.

minority communities have really some big demands. i am afraid there is no reason for hindus to accept them ,even if it displeases the minorities.

its a case where minority share holders want
the biggest share holder not to excercise his rights.

i am afraid that both muslims and christians as
followers of foreign religions have dual loyalties. not all of them can be trusted.

we see this in the attitude of some muslims and christians in the court of the delhi sultanate.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
77
I read with great interest the essay by Ramchandra
Guha. Very few people understand a collective picture of India better than Ramachandra. But, I
disagree with him in a few points.

1. Currently, staying in the US, I understand
how important the issue of global warming
is (I just heard that it seems there will be
no ice in the Arctic this year!). As Tom Freedman
says: "Its the curse of Oil" where, as we become
more and more dependent on oil of the middle east,
we pay them more and make them rich so that these
arrogant rulers can hold to their kingdoms by buying off the opposition by digging more in the
sand instead of digging more into the people's mind to educate them science and technology. This delays birth of democracy in these countries and makes the world much more unstable towards hate attacks. But, Ram Guha doesn't tell is
that how can we hold on to a growth rate of 9-10%
without following a western model. Don't tell me
that India will be a superpower by sitting at
home and chanting Gandhian: "Simple living, high
thinking". The need of the hour is: "High living,
high thinking". We need to take technological projects like setting up solar panels, biomass
community centres etc. But, for God's sake, this
time privatize these jobs instead of giving it to the fat corrupt babus.

2. We need to severely cut short the government
and computerize governance so that every village
is connected to the internet. This reduces
corruption, stops the influence of the Mioists
and makes people directly in contact with the world. BUT, WILL OUR LEADERS ALLOW THIS (ALAS!
THEY WILL BECOME JOBLESS). As Reagen said: Govt.
is not there to solve the problem of the people,
it is the problem. Can't agree more with him in this context.

India will be superpower if and only if we seize
teechnology to release the potential of our
people.
Ayan Datta
Bangalore, India
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
76
faruki

you attack sarvarkar and golwalkar , and quietly ignore what jinnah and his merry men said and did.

However had they any reasons for detesting muslims and christians. Quite definately if the muslims and christians detest hindus. And frankly
many of them do. I find both communities to be dogmatic, and I say this from personal experience

so far muslims in pakistan- ex indians have a record of deciet , terrorist attacks against their neighbour india. articles in the media,
propaganda in schools, colleges prove this.And we ask ourselves, why should we doubt that muslims in India have the same mentality. Why indeed not.

muslims in india have reservations about being indian. no point in explaining it away. we know that had they been on the train to pakistan, then they would hate india just as much as the others. i know its undiplomatic, but then i am not a politician, and just speak whats in my mind. maybe i am wrong about some muslims who
really care for india. i hope so.

however i know that most muslims in britain for example are just part time britts. their loyalty
is for example to pakistan. and they are more likely to fight against britain then for it.

When you attack Sarvarkar and Golwalkar, just remember that they may have detested muslims, but they did it because they cared for India,
and felt that the muslims did not.

Many Hindus feel the same way now. Based on bitter experience of riots, angry demonstrations,
and open sympathy for muslims abroad then their own hindu fellow citizens.

Try and see reality, even if collides with your fanciful ideas.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
75
Kumar Part 3 (21 Jun, 2008 10:33:24PM (IST))
>>Well, a lot of dalit atrocities happen every day but media hardly bothers (hope you are talkingabout dalits!), but they pick a few high profile cases. A security breach or accident etc of a high level politician (including that of BJP) naturally draws the attention of media.
I have reasons to say this. In the recent past I have noted certain incidents that have been conveniently glossed over by the media(mostly owned by Churches, Muslims and Commies)
1. An incident where men was rammed by a car while demolishing a temple. The men were both Chrisitans and this incident happened in Christian south Tamil Nadu. Why wasn;t the truth brought out as to why the man rammed the car?
2. When Hindu Dalits are involved it make headlines because it supposedly shows the evils of Hinduism. But on 9 March 10 Christian Dalits were killed by Upper caste Christians in Cuddalore near Chennai. Did you hear of this incident?
3. About Freedom of expression. IN Chennai a FACT exhibition on Aurangazeb¡¦s court paintings was disrupted and paintings torn by Tamil Nadu police upon orders from DMK. It was attacked after Prince of Arcot Mohamed Ali( A ministerial rank in state assembly for him. Only one of its kind in India even after dismantling Monarchy) didn¡¦tk like two paintings showing the destruction of Temples in Somnath and Mathura were part of the exhibition. Where were the Freedom of Expression brigade? Why weren¡¦t there any talk shows on this topic? We had to endure months of Hindu bashing after a Muslim in Calcutta killed himself. Rizwanur Rehman became a household name for nothing.
4. But incidents of violence due to Saddam Hussein¡¦ hanging in Bangalore were conveniently blocked. Operations were disrupted and a 12 year old boy was killed when Congress thug Jaffer Shariff and other Muslim organisations protested against the killing of Saddam Hussein. When should India worry about Saddam Hussien? And why wasn¡¦t the raison¡¦d¡¦etre of such protests questioned? But the following riots were highlighted in an one sided manner

I can go on like this. I feel the media has relinquished its role in a democracy for Padma Shris and exclusive rights. So they shouldn¡¦t talk of morality

Anyway I enjoyed this debate with you. We shall continue.
shanthakumar
Chennai, India
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
74
Kumar Part 2 (21 Jun, 2008 10:33:24PM (IST))
>>Many actually think that even innocent muslims are victimized in several occassions with the 'benefit of dou

bt' always going against them.

Hey man benefit of doubt has been given for over 20 incident of bomb blasts in the last 4 years. 6500 Indians(predominantly Hindus) have been killed. Where is justice for those families. The Congress government refused to remember the dead during anniversaries lest they hurt Muslim sentiments. It is an insult to many patriotic Muslims in India. There is disparity in paying solatium to the families of the dead. I can show instances where dead Hindus and Muslims were discriminated. More money was given to muslim families than Hindus.

>>That is a pretty large and period of history and being the later period has a good record of history. Before also is there is history books, but not as chauvinistic/boisterous as some chauvinists would like.
I have a basic question Kumar. Were you taught that the Number system was invented by Indians? I wasn¡¦t. Were taught of the mathematical works done by Aryabatta and Bramhagupta? They even postulated the concept of gravity as early as 500AD. I wasn¡¦t. Were taught that the world¡¦s first university was built in Taxila and then in Nalanda. I wasn¡¦t. Were you taught that India Music was the first to have Heptatonic musical notes and templates called ragas as early as 500 BC? I wasn¡¦t. There are more. Don¡¦t you think these are worth being taught to Indians so that they can feel proud of their heritage? If yes then why wasn¡¦t it done. I will tell you why: Nehru said : ¡§To talk of Hindu culture would injure India's interests. By education I am an Englishman, by views an internationalist, by culture a Muslim, and I am a Hindu only by accident of birth?. The ideology of Hindu Dharma is completely out of tune with the present times and if it took root in India, it would smash the country to pieces.¡¨

>> When Malaysian Hindus were suffering
>>>That was not a hindu religious issue.
No Kumar it was. Hindus are being oppressed in Malaysia which is a muslim country. Their places of worship have been demolished and laws have been passed to give preference to Muslims in jobs. Bumiputra policy is aimed at promoting Muslims. There are Tamil Muslims who are exempted from such harsh treatment.
shanthakumar
Chennai, India
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
73
Kumar -Part 1 (21 Jun, 2008 10:33:24PM (IST))

>>If the division of brahmin/OBC/Dalit, with the latter being larger in number but with no temple rights/entry etc is not there, the state control of some temples may not have been there.

Kumar, if reformation of Hindus is the benign intent of the government then they should also attempt to reform other religions as well. Muslim women cannot worship at mosques. Have you ever heard of GO by any government in India attempting to reform religions other than Hinduism? The answer is NO. This irks not only me but many people in India who see through the machinations of Pseudo Secularism. Secularism is agnosticism not respect for all religions. If a government picks and chooses between religions you will have many like who was a so called Secular until Gujarat elections. I saw the ills of unholy alliance of Commie, Jihadi and Evangelists. It is not good for India. They show Modi as a villain. But I only learnt later that they keep harping of 3 days that he took to call in the army. The Godhra train was burnt on 27 Februray 2002. the army was called on 1 Marhc 2002. This is travesty of truth. February 2002 didn't have 29. So there weren't 3 days in between. Also compare it with anti-sikh riots of 1984 not one congress man was shot. In Gujarat Modi government shot 350 or more rioting Hindus. Leave that all alone Modi genuinely has done tremendous things in Gujarat. This bias against Hindus is hurting India at large.

>>It has been moved to mid-january which Tamil nationalists claim is the right day (first day of the Tamil month Thai)
The question is whether such an act would be engineered against other religious groups. Please be aware that Tamil New Year is celebrated only by Hindus and not Muslims and Christians in Tamil Nadu. It is a Hindu Calendar. The so called Tamil Chauvinists are DK and DMK atheists and the decision doesn¡¦t affect them. My question is would Secularists dare to change the calendar of Tamil Muslims and Tamil Christians.


>>When you have a large section of people who strongly believe that their religion demands some civil traditions to be followed, an intermediate step towards UCC is to allow that section to follow their civil code and give time for reform.
How long should they be given time to reform. What reformation are you talking about? Do you know that Muslim daughters have only 1/3 inheritance right compared to sons. Don¡¦t you see the need for reformation here? This exclusivity has only resulted in propagating a false sense of victimhood in them.


>>This was given as a token of reassurance. The govt has a record of giving special welfare schemes to different sections of society like dalits, OBCs, poor etc. This is one such.
Token of reassurance for what? Being muslims in India? Why? Not one of 56 Muslim nations in this world do this to their citizens. Why should a SECULAR India do? And that too only to its Muslim and Christian citizens? Why not Hindus?

>>There is nothing wrong in uplifting Indian citizens if that section truly needs the upliftment (just as crores are spent for scholarships, reservations etc)
Poverty is poverty Kumar. Do not classify poverty by labelling them as Muslims. What happens to those millions of Hindus who starve. This is fascism Kumar. This is perverted and male fide campaign to oppress Hindus. Tax payers money is wrongly channelled to consolidate vote bank. And mind you I am not prepared to pay tax for political machinations and propagation of dynastic politics of Congress. I do not want majority Hindu tax payers money to be used against their very own existence. How can you explain Islamic banking idea of Manmohan Singh. I being a Hindu would borrow money at 10% interest while Muslims would get free money? What would happen to Hindus businessmen? Government should work towards integration not segregation.
shanthakumar
Chennai, India
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
72
*************************************
Thinking about how to provide POWER
to its each citizen
makes more sensible than
debating about becoming a SUPER POWER.

************************************
Sasi KC
Reston, United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
71

***************************************

Thi
nking about how to provide POWER
to its each citizen
makes more sensible than
debating about becoming a SUPER
POWER.

************************************
*
Sasi KC
Reston, United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
70
i am a thoroughly westernised indian, and an agnostic to boot.

however it has been my strong conviction, supported by facts that it is the hindu religion which has held india togather.

the communists have proved that they are irrational, dogmatic and their record of govt is
absolutely dismal. in a way they are more like
the pol pot, and less then the mature chinese
communists, who are reasoneable human beings
under their communist outer image.

regarding the other communities, muslims have shown themselves to be fanatical, dogmatic and
their performance in all fields is deploreable.
moreover their loyalty is suspect.

like wise christians in india are a type not known in europe. they are like the christians
as were seen in europe 200 years ago, and badly need to get themselves to update themselves.
they will not ,i am afraid.

i dont think that its especially smart not to speak the truth about various communities, praising those that have done well, and giveing
poor marks to those who have done badly.

people like guha are afraid to speak the truth, or they wish it away, because it collides with their naive view of reality.

that leaves out the hindus, and the impression of these as conveyed by guha are hardly seen any where.

todays hindu men and women are on the fast lane forward , if they have the chance. servants in our house have great ambitions for their children, who play and learn ob lap tops and dont go around with trishuls. what rot these
hindu haters and commies write, and amazeingly
make waves.

reading this essay has not made me think well about guha. typical bengali left wing rubbish.

lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
69
>> Weren't you a recent Patel(Hindu).

Patel is not an uncommon surname for Muslims in Gujarat.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
68
Bagai,

>> i refer to himachal pradesh, and uttarkhand.

Aren't those the states with the maximum deficits of girls?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 24, 2008 12:00 AM
67
Mr Manish K Banerjee

Very well written ... imho a "super-power" in the modern context (about 300 years since Europeans left their shores to "discover" India and the Orient) simply boils down to naval/military supremacy, industrial prowess and economic strength. So, while British along with French and Spaniards were the super-powers of 18/19th century challenged briefly by the Tsars of Russia, the USA is the super-power, challenged after WWII in later half of the 20th century by the then Soviet Union, and now in 21st century by China and the oil rich Islamic Middle East. Going back a bit to middle ages, for argument's sake, we had Ottoman and Mughal empires which in their own contemporary Middle Eastern/Balkan and Central/South Asian domains had all the essential qualifications of being classified as super-powers ...

In his long narrative, Guha has basically used his literary skills to unnecessarily drag what he himself rather insidiously rants without clearly elaborating, the “insidious presence of Hindutawadis” along with Naxalite terrorism in his seven reasons ignoring the very obvious ones in our immediate neighbourhood who clearly do not wish India well.

For, it is superficial to debate a case for India to become a "super-power" because as of now no matter how much a hawkish Pentagon or White House could have grandeur dreams of a USA, we NOW live in multi-polar world, and I doubt if a future US President or a White House (of any complexion) again ever would dare to repeat a Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan ... the China, however, under its own enticing PLA opiate will continue to measure the size of their urine extracting organ of copulation with that of US, as Guha has wittingly commented …
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
66
faruki

hindus are the majority community in india,and
in some states there are hindus only, and there are hardly any others.

i refer to himachal pradesh, and uttarkhand.
and there are tiny states such as ladakh, and
sikkim, where most people are budhists.same for
bhutan.its one of the most peaceful places as well.populated by budhists.

afghanistan was once a peaceful budhist country.
its a hell hole after the people converted to islam.can any one dispute this.

now look at the kashmir valley, and it is a scene
of intolerance and violence.

guha,s claiming that the hindu majority is harmful for liberalism is a sick idea from a sick mind.

the examples i have given are proof enough.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
65
Bagai,

>> my approach is based on pragmatic considerations.

Your approach is based on hate, pure and simple!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
64
Bagai,

>> why is it that indian muslims who supported pakistan ..... do not take the
opportunity to settle in muslim countries.

Your small mind will always stay apartheidist, and you will forever keep dreaming of further partitions and more mass movements of people. You are stuck in 1947. They are in India because they are Indians. That simple fact will never percolate through your thick skull.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
63
Vinod,

>> if some one switches to another browser he still should have been able to access the OUTLOOK forum.

I lost e-mail on my new browser! I have to use a second browser to get my e-mail. If I try to re-register as Ghulam Y Faruki, I am sure Outlook will tell me, "That ID is already taken by another poster", which is the reply I got from an American Movies forum that I post in. However since both you and LBMN are liars yourselves, you must expect others to be just like you! I am not surprised.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
62
faruki

what would you call jinnah in front of your
pakistani brothers.

evil, obnoxious apartheidist.??

he said -i will have india devided or india destroyed.

he was sincere in his views. its faruki who
is the opportunist, a muslim from india liveing
in the usa, and opposed to americans and indians as well.

Beware.What would the profet say about you.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
61
faruki

indian muslims were most determined to have a new
muslim state-and this was an epic opportunity to build a state after islamic principles.

it should have had the full support of people with your mindset. however instead of supporting this state, and helping it build its islamic institutions, you have chosen to live in a country like the usa, which most muslims detest-or so they say.

why do muslims want to live in a western liberal state which is totally opposed to islam-
how can you choose man made laws ,like the bill of rights, instead of laws ordained by the koran.

american society with pubs and bars, semi naked
women, pornography , is directly opposed to
islamic ideals.

india with Modi and the parivar are also hated
by most muslims. How is it that you are still
obsessively interested in this country, when you have a beautiful alternative in Pakistan.

I fail to understand why muslims do not work to
improve their existing muslim societies, instead of being exclusively engaged in wars of liberation against infidels, and kaffirs.

once liberated these states become disfunctional and home of the worst kinds of fanatics.

thats why i say that Pakistan and the muslim world needs you. Heed the call of Allah and his profet, and leave sinful and kaffir India to
its wretched Hindus, and USA the great Satan to its shameless Americans.

Allah be praised.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
60
What is a Superp0wer? Are geographical size, populatin size , size of armed forces, no. of nuclear bombs, size of the economy,population wellness index or how grandly it holds a olympiad measures of being superpowers?
One presumes that we are here talking about economy or living standards of majority of its people. India ( or China )was or is nowhere near being a superpower by that standard.
U.S.A, Australia,Japan , U.K, France,Germany ,Sweeden,Switzerland,Austria ,Netherlands are superpowers. Or even Italy. Spain , Brazil. India or China are not & not going to be so in foreseeable future.

Never before in history such miniscule group people ammassed such huge wealth in such short span of time at the cost of its majority population to build their 27-story dwelling houses in downtown Mumbai.( Don't grudge them so long majority has two square meals)
The myth of going to be a superpower(whatever that means)was created by these hand countable no. peaple, actively aided & abetted by their political/ buarocrat subservients & corporate media to pull the wool over eyes of people, while they were at at it.
As such Ramchandra Guha's seven reasons why India will not be superpower is an superfluous exercise.
Ramchandra Guha is himselef a victim of dream marketeers. How one measures one of 100 most influential intellects in the world? Are those world's most richest Indians still world's most richest now that trillions has evaporated from NSE/BSE in a few weeks? Or they have alraedy taken their money out via Maurisus?
MANISH KANTI BANERJEE
kolkata, Israel
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
59
Reason #1112 why India can't be a superpower: Indian netizens who read an outstanding essay like this still insist on seeing it through their narrow prisms.

Here's an executive summary, for those of you who don't get it: the _idea_ of India, as defined by the Constitution, is unique, and had shown tremendous resilience despite numerous threats. It is still under threat, from the political left, the political right and the economic conservative. We have all the right ideas, but suffer in implementation.

Addressing this is a bigger challenge than our standings at some arbitary international ranking.
Akshay
Hyderabad, India
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
58
"I don’t know why Guha wrote an 18-page history sheet remotely related to its title, Will India Become A Superpower?, "

Me too!! It is more a critique on the Sangh Parivar. I did not read every line but tried to find the definition of "superpower" in the article and could not find it. The question "Will India become a superpower?" is meaningless without actually defining what makes a country a superpower.

Totally meaningless article.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
57
I don’t know why Guha wrote an 18-page history sheet remotely related to its title, Will India Become A Superpower?, that caught my attention and I willingly followed it page by page, at time, re-reading a whole paragraph when I emerged out of brief involuntary trance. Is being a superpower all about "My penis is bigger than yours" way of thinking about one’s place in the world? Tiny island nation with economic imperialism today keeps the world in chain and our bigger can barely help maintain physical and political equilibrium in the face of negative forces. We have, nevertheless, the potential only if we educate and prepare our poor--a far greater percentage of India's population--for safe and healthy lifestyle.
P. Paul
Kartarpur, India
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
56
faruk

jinnah did well for the pakistani muslims. if they did not ,then its not because of the troublesome hindus.

given the same situation ie sans muslims, india
would at least have had one major head ache less.

the blogs in this forum, shows the great devide,
which has poisoned politics, the legal system,
family planning and womens right.

we have a huge minority who are suspect, with or without good reason.

it has also devided society between the seculars and the nationalists. the seculars are happy fightiing nationalist forces, and sideing with
myriad so called liberal causes.

its similar to the malady called auto immune syndrome, when some cells attack the good cells,
killing the patient.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
55
Quietly, hardline Hindu outfits build a network ...

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/326331.html


Interestingly, all terrorists think that they are victims and that what they do is just self-defence.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
54
>> muslims who attend state scools in britain, bombed the trains in london. the 14 terrorists

I agree that education alone is not enough. There should also be a imbibing of few humanist principles like basic respect and human rights for all human beings, acceptance of a humanist constitution/law of the land, opposition to use of violence or asking to use violence on other citizens against the law of the land, freedom of religion/speech as a basic right (as long as it does not violate these principles) etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
53
One of the most stupid article I have ever read.
rahul jain
SAS Nagar, India
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
52
Lalit Bagai,

>>even orthodox and fundamentalist muslims have not left india, unlike hindus who have left pakistan.

It is not only Pakistan, even in "secular" India Hindus have been ethnically cleansed by Muslims Kashmir. Lakhs of Hindus are being forced to live like refugees with in their own country.

Shameless "secularists", who made their carriers out of Gujarat riots, have done precious little for Hindu victims of Islamic butchery.

India is "secular" in name only. In reality we are perilously close to Islamic theocracy where Hindu lives and their faith is under relentless attack.
J
Bangalore, India
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
51
faruki

you deal with quiet moderation when referring to
muslim countries who are openly against minority
rights. you maintain a diplomatic cool even when women are treated like animals in areas of the muslim world.

however you are on your toes if even one hair on the head of a muslim terrorist is ruffled without due process. all of this proves your
enormous bias in favour of muslims.

my approach is based on pragmatic considerations.
muslims as a community have proven to be a source of endless debates and controversies, and
to cut it short, most multiethnic societies
have decided that they are a problem.

many western societies are now trying to restrict
any further immigration of muslims.

based on experience i also feel that muslims in
india are like a lose cannon, motivated by religious passions, and determined not to adapt
to a society trying hard to modernise.

under the circumstances muslims who think and act
as a pack, should try and build fair and just
islamic societies, and not become a hindrance
in other countries.

this is easier said then done for example in india. since 1947 the muslim share of population has doubled, and so have problems with them.

its evident that pakistan has solved its communal problems by deporting their minorities
by useing coercion and threats. india will never do this.

however its time that the majority community ie hindus do what ever is required to bring order
in the affairs in india. this will mean getting
muslims to accept all laws and conditions which apply to all citizens. it will mean an end to the
religious stranglehood of mullahs and maulvis.
this should mean closeing madrassahs, disciplening hot headed muslim clerics, and a
strong effort to moderniseing muslims.

the majority hindus should not after formation of pakistan, willingly accept that the muslims
remaining in india of their free will, should
sobatage this country.

this i think is the position of the bjp.if you
faruki can accept muslim centric policies in all muslim countries, then you should have no problem in understanding the logic of the bjp.

the rules of the game will change in india.
and they will change with certainty should the bjp win more elections.

i note that even hindus from the south are now
becomeing increasingly antimuslim. for this muslims have to blame themselves entirely.

enough is enough.

jai sita ram



lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
50
"India is the only country in the world, where majority bashers have such a good time. In failed states like bangaladesh and pakistan, minorities are simply killed. In relatively well off countries like malasia, china and middle east, minorities have been so mercilessly and completely crushed that secularism-single religion debate never happens there. any such debator like guha would be put in a gas chamber.

This, in short, is the crux of hindutva-secular debate in India. ----

JOSEPH
KARACHI PAKISTAN "


Praise the Lord as truth finally dawned !
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
49
kumar

bangalore

muslims who attend state scools in britain, bombed the trains in london. the 14 terrorists
who attacked the wtc also studied in western schools.

some of the nazi,s were very well educated people.

you are just being being very naive.

david hume an english philosopher wrote.

its a falsehood that men are motivated by intellect. they are in fact motivated by emotions, and intellect is merely used to obtain
what the heart desires.

men of high intellect would prefer marilyn monroe
to say a brilliant but ugly woman.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
48
faruki

considering that india is becomeing increaseingly
anti muslim because of the parivar, how many gujerati muslims have decided to leave for say
pakistan.

it is strange indeed that even orthodox and fundamentalist muslims have not left india, unlike hindus who have left pakistan.

why is it that indian muslims who supported pakistan, and perhaps still do, do not take the
opportunity to settle in muslim countries. Instead if they do leave India, they make a bee line for western countries.

Why do muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, UAE
treat outside muslims much worse then European
countries. And why do muslims not high light this,but have angry complaints against the West.

It seems that muslims can not live with nonmuslims, and neither can they live without them. And as a matter of policy will remain ungrateful for whatever good the west does for them. You are a case in point.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
47
Fact finder,

Would Muslims agree to demolish all the Mosques in India, if they can't prove the existence of allah in courts based on scientific evidence. After all, if allah doesn't exist, what's the point of these countless mosques. A public urinal serves people better, instead.
J
Bangalore, India
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
46
Fact Finder , LOl..looks like another case of installing a new browser from newyork.

>>Even despite the fact that archeological survey of India is doing everything it can to prove the
myth(Ramayana) to be true, and it has failed to produce anything as proof.

Which madrasa taught you that you need archeological proof to have a belief ? What is the archeological proof that the hair in hazratbal actually belongs to prophet ? What is the archeological proof for existence of your prophet?

Mian, jyoti Basu is a communist and an Atheist.And he has to certify the existence of lord rama ?? Hats off to your madrasa logic.

Btw, UPA governmet , withdrew that affidavit from court.

>>Why are you so thick skulled you bajrangi skunk?

Typical jihadi tactic. When you lose an argument on facts, resort to personal abuse. How predictable !! You are just showcasing your intellectual bankruptcy by abusing others.

lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
45
Joseph karachi,

Is Joseph Pereira (US) your Id too? Why two ids?

Your views certainly seem to have changed alot since I visited this forum last time. By the way, I totally agree with your last post! Well Said, Mr. Joseph.
J
Bangalore, India
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
44
Azad/Bodepudi (to Guha),

>> Your writing on Islamic rendezvous in India is incomplete and dangerously misleading.

You want everyone to share your poisonous views and your twisted history. Not everyone is eager to join your evil hate crusade.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
43
Vinod,

>> How about calling you as a jehadi sympathiser. Will it be an abuse.

That would make you a liar and an idiot. But we already know that.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
42
Vinod,

>> What the hell you mean by''I have nothing to say".

You keep writing posts when all that you write has already been said in much better English by someone else. You have no new idea or new insight or new information to add to what has already been said ten times before.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
41
India can become superpower only if anti-national forces are kept in check. Leftist and Islamist coalition against India needs to be defeated, once and far all. Jihadis and traitor leftists are doing, and will do every thing possible to keep India backward and under-developed, so that they can get easy recruits for their evil ideologies.

A Hindu India is the surest and fastest way to achieve the goal of superpower status. India needs many more Gujarats(in more ways than one) and its enterprising Gujarati spirit. India can do with less of Bengal and its utterly hopeless, stupid and dhimmified people.
J
Bangalore, India
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
40
Azad/Bodepudi,

>> You keep abusing the posters instead of confronting the issues.

Calling you a bigot or a hate propagandist is not abuse. It is a fact. Your loony "issues" are merely attempts to malign and slander a minority community in your own country. You are a disgrace. And that is no abuse.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
39
Vinod,

>> If you go on intimidating a fellow poster like this .....

But you do know that you keep writing posts even when you have nothing to say, don't you?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
38
Vinod,

>> Day are not far when CAIR may have to wind up its activities in America.

Fifteen posts today on CAIR were not enough for you? You have to add another post on the same subject although you have nothing to add to what had already been said!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
37
Bagai,

>> i believe that jinnah was right.

You are stuck in the year 1947. All your obnoxious apartheidist views derive from that.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
36
Azad/Bodepudi,

>> Muslims threaten publisher for describing heretical Islamic sect Ahmadiyyas) as Muslims.

I condemn Muslims who threaten free practise by any community of what they believe in. I do not believe what Ahmadiyyas believe, but if they regard themselves as Muslims, that is not going to upset me.

>> courtesy of our mad failure to halt immigration from Muslim countries.

United States was founded by those who killed millions of each other in their internecine religious wars in Europe, and who continued their killings of American "heathens" after they arrived here. Only a severely bigotted hatemonger like you would raise such a point.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 23, 2008 12:00 AM
35
Azad/Bodepudi,

>> he denies similar freedoms for others.

Fighting your attempts to use this forum as your hate mail outlet is the correct thing to do.

>> Ghulam's support for CAIR, a terror-support group in the US ...

A terror support group would not last one day in today's America. CAIR functions openly and aggressively in its fight against prejudice and injustice.

>> condemned by senior senators Schumacher (NY) and Dick Durbin (IL).

Why am I not surprised!

>> Ghulam's abuse of Hindus and Hindu support groups is well known.

I do not abuse Hindus. I do criticize the sangh and I also abominate hate pracharaks like yourself.

>> Ram Guha needs to do research on Islamic presence in India.

What you really mean is that Ram Guha should join you in your bigotic hate crusade. It is not going to happen.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
34
Bagai,

>> wild horses would not get him to move to beloved pakistan.

I am not from Pakistan. Will you move back to India?
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
33
faruki

in view of the hatred of the parivar for muslims, and muslims for hindus, i believe that
jinnah was right.he created a state for muslims only, where they would be on their own. maybe
a excluseivist attitude, but it has worked for
pakistani,s.

hindus should have had the same chance. a near
100 percent hindu country.

i am sure it would have been a liberal and secular country, where minorities would have
all rights as the hindus.

the project has been wrecked by the presence of
so many muslims, who think and act just as their ancestors did in 1947. They are as dogmatic and
fanatic as they were, and India is now back to
square one.

Faruki you can not accept that your community has caused many problems in India, are doing so now, and also in all the countries they are to be
found.

Is it different in the USA.How do muslims find themselves in American society, and what do Americans think of muslims.?

lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
32
dorje

right is right and wrong is wrong, and no holy
book is required to know this.

referring back and forth to the koran is absurd.
non muslim societies are happyly free of this,
and are far better in every way then muslim societies.

look at the sly fox faruki. could he even think of moveing to a muslim country. never. he is is
smart enough to have chosen usa.wild horses would not get him to move to beloved pakistan, a
country besotted with islam.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Denmark
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
31
>> Ramachandra Guha was recently named as one of the 100 most influential public intellectuals in the world ...
>> This is a plain flattory, he is not worth place even out of 100000 in India..

Because he believes in values of human rights, humanism, support/upliftment/empowerment for all sections of society?
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
30
>> 'The leading historian ...' i am sure he leads buffoons and idiots

Depends on the standard you use to measure. If you consider the rioters, rapists, murders, violaters of law/order as your standard of nationalism, patriotism etc, then people like Guha who believe in humanism, upliftment/support for all sections of society etc look like buffoons and idiots.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
29
'The leading historian ...'
i am sure he leads buffoons and idiots.
Rajeev
Delhi, India
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
28
"
Ramachandra Guha was recently named as one of the 100 most influential public intellectuals in the world. He is the author of India After Gandhi: The History of the World’s Largest Democracy.
"

This is a plain flattory, he is not worth place even out of 100000 in India.

He is a sick communist!!! Majority of Begali descent are sick communists.
Parthasarty is Exception.
vimal
Munich, Germany
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
27

One need not read essay by an idiot, who having background in communist ideology will always downplay every indian achievments.

Despite communists getting attention for last 50 years, india has grown, and it has grown and it will grow.

In future definition of "super power" will change; important is india realize its dream in tune with heritage with path of democracy we have followed.

Communists like GUHA are at odd both with "Heritage" and "Democracy".

I hope these "flies" will be cleaned in 10-15 years specially congress understanding now their true anti-national character.

People like LALU can understand need of alternative source of energy.

Only thing that describes these people is they are anti-nationals.
vimal
Munich, Germany
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
26
No.
Raj
Chicago, United States
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
25
>>But in the impact to india becoming superpower and developing/sustaining right nationalistic ideals, he rates hindu chauvinism as a greater threat in the context of India. If he is writing about Pakistan, he probably would have written that islamic chauvinism/fanatism as a greater threat.

The serial bombings of innocents in Mumbai, Hyderabad, Varanasi , Jaipur, Akshar dham etc must be happening in pakistan as well and not India.

>>then it is you who needs to correct your definitions.

and you need to revisit your geography asap
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
24
The true rendez vous will come into, Mr. Dorje. when 876,543,210 Hindus concede that they must have to live in brotherly neighbourliness with 145,678,910 Muslims and 45,768,810 Indians of other faiths and non-faiths.

We need to examine the situation and the possibilities in line with these wonderful lines from Henry Wadsworth Longfellow.

"Trust no future, however pleasant! Let the dead past bury its dead! Act, - act in the living Present! Heart within and God overhead."

Gregorian
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
23
Dear Ram:

Please do research and write an essay on Hindu-Muslim rendezvous, in India-good, bad and ugly. Only truth can liberate India and bring themuch needed social harmony. On this mission critical front, your analysis is seriously deficient and dangerously misleading
Dorje
New York, United States
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
22
If you recall your Alice In Wonderful and the observation of the Mad Hatter to Alice, South Asia, and India, in particular, is required to run as fast as it can in order to stay in one place. We are like that.

Gregorian
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Jun 22, 2008 12:00 AM
21
I believe that India can thrive by staying united even after all the differences that the author points out. Inspite of short-term pessimism, the long-term prospects of those at the bottom rung are better if they remain a part of the nation, rather than seeking extreme solutions. The solution seems to be one that would incorporate the following points:
1. Replace the corrupt administration with efficient and scruplous people. Train them to think of the big picture. If people are lifted out of poverty, wealth will automatically be created in the nation. This will benefit even more those who are seeking short-term gains from corruption. Everybody benefits even profits, from a fair, egalitarian and less corrupt administration.
2. Keep an eye on global currents
3. Manage resources efficiently, sensibly and patriotically.
4. The best model is mixed mode ie socialist-capitalist, something like a capitalistic welfare economy
5. Involve the middle and upper classes to be an active part of the electoral process. They are education and know what is good for their own country. Also they are the ones that are hurt the most when corrupt and treacherous practices fritter aways national resources and starts stunting industrial growth and job creation.
abc
baroda, india
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
20
"The demands placed on the earth by the poor and excluded are disproportionately low; the demands placed by those with cars and credit cards excessively high. A rational, long-range, sustainable strategy of development has to find ways of enhancing the resource access of those at the bottom of the heap while checking the resource demands of those in positions of power and advantage. This strategy has then to be broken down into specific sectors; so that, for example, we can design suitable policies for transport, energy, housing, forests, pollution control, water management, and so on." RG

Dear Ram:

Absolutely! But look at the Play of the India business model: A carbon copy of the US to be led by the automobile, scene by scene!

1 Why not restore the bi-cycle transportation
2 More competition and tax incentives so small firms will survive and prosper,

3 Solar lighting made mandatory with tax breaks and subsidies & thru innovation,

4 Two Children per family norm, to be widely propagated and promoted with incentives and education-coupled with private-public-supported life insurance so families NEED not have large families to take care of the old and the sick,

5 All Mandals to be made financially responsive and responsible, with secure sources of revenue and freedoms,

6 Free graduate level education for ALL women in technical and medical schools-with job guarantees
Dorje
New York, United States
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
19
"Who shall hold the centre against the challenges from left and right?"
" Now, the Government of India is run by men and women of limited intelligence and dubious integrity, who know little about and care less for the ideals on which the Republic was founded."
"Other, lesser parties have taken inspiration—if that is the word!—from the Congress, and likewise converted their parties into family firms."
"With a corrupt and corroded centre, Indian democracy will not be able to win an authoritative victory over extremists of left or right."

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. (W.B.Yeats)
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
18
"The hold of the Muslim orthodoxy over the community is so strong that even liberal Muslim intellectuals are cowed down by them. As a Hindu, I do not need to refer to any religious text to attack Untouchability—I can merely point out that it is an inhuman practice impermissible in a civilised society. Regardless of what the Shastras might or might not say on the subject, the fact that the Indian Constitution abolishes Untouchability is good enough for me. But a Muslim asking for equal rights for women finds it far more difficult to argue from first principles. He takes refuge instead in one or the other verse from the Quran, read or interpreted in a way most congenial to his argument. He tends to suppress or ignore the contrary evidence in other verses or sections." RG

Ram:

The point above needs full national debate and discussion, involving religious leaders of Hindus & Muslims, in order to convince that Muslims are safe and Hindus are Secure
Dorje
New York, United States
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
17
"To be fair, there are also other kinds of religious fundamentalisms lurking around in India. Some Christian and Muslim groups in India are as convinced of their theological superiority, as sure of their victory at the altar of history as any bigot of the Sangh parivar. The hold of the Muslim orthodoxy over the community is so strong that even liberal Muslim intellectuals are cowed down by them. As a Hindu, I do not need to refer to any religious text to attack Untouchability—I can merely point out that it is an inhuman practice impermissible in a civilised society. Regardless of what the Shastras might or might not say on the subject, the fact that the Indian Constitution abolishes Untouchability is good enough for me. But a Muslim asking for equal rights for women finds it far more difficult to argue from first principles. He takes refuge instead in one or the other verse from the Quran, read or interpreted in a way most congenial to his argument. He tends to suppress or ignore the contrary evidence in other verses or sections.

There is, indeed, a reassertion of religious orthodoxy in all faiths in modern India—among Muslims and Christians as well as Sikhs and Hindus (and even, as it happens, among Jains). It is the illiberal tendencies in all these religions that, at the present juncture, are in the ascendant. The mullahs who abuse Sania Mirza or Taslima Nasreen, and the Sikh hardliners who terrorise the Dera Sacha Sauda, are also wholly opposed to the spirit of the Indian Constitution. But simply by virtue of numbers—Hindus are, after all, more than 80 per cent of India’s population—and their much wider political influence, Hindu bigotry is indisputably the most dangerous of them all."

Illiberal forces have become the predominant voices in almost all religions in India. Moderation, tolerance, liberalism and making religion a private matter have all been put on the back burner.
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
16
"For all their talk of the past and future greatness of India, the philosophy of Hindutva is, in fact, a form of petty and at times vindictive chauvinism.

The Kannada writer, U.R. Ananthamurthy, adds an interesting caveat to this argument. He says that we should not call the Sangh parivar the ‘saffron brigade’ either. For, saffron is a beautiful colour, the colour of wisdom and renunciation, with so many rich resonances in our myths and our history. Why should we then cede it to the hard, humourless men on the right? Let them not usurp the lovely colour ‘saffron’, nor indeed, the inclusive term ‘nationalist’. The correct characterisation of the ideology of the Sangh parivar, therefore, is ‘Hindu chauvinist’.

That the politics of the Sangh parivar is exclusive and divisive has been demonstrated in the hundreds of reports published by civil liberties groups, extending over four decades and covering at least a dozen states, that document their hand in communal riots, big and small. Although they work within the Indian Constitution, they are, in effect, as opposed to its underlying ideals as are the Naxalites.

The real hate figure for the Sangh parivar is the Muslim. But, as my late teacher, the historian Dharma Kumar, once pointed out, they actually secretly admire and even wish to emulate their historic enemies. What the BJP wanted for India, she said, was to construct "an Islamic State—for Hindus". In medieval Muslim states, there was a category known as dhimmi, consisting of Jews and Christians who, as people of the book, were treated somewhat more leniently than the kaffirs, the unbelievers. The dhimmi were barred from the top positions in the state and in the army. However, so long as they paid their taxes and did not challenge the ruler, they could live in peace and security. The kaffirs, on the other hand, were seen always and invariably as adversaries. In the same manner, if the RSS were to get its way, the Muslims and Christians in modern India would live undisturbed, so long as they acknowledged their theological and political inferiority to the dominant Hindus. But if they sought equal rights of citizenship, they would be punished as the kaffirs had once been."

The old adage of "identification with the aggressor"!
Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
15
"One reason that Hindutva has been so successful is that it speaks in different voices. Mr Vajpayee can be trotted out to calm the liberals; Mr Advani to appeal to the hardliners. (Now, with Mr Vajpayee’s retirement from active politics, Mr Advani has recast himself as the benign face while Narendra Modi has taken over as the unsmiling fanatic). The BJP can distance itself from the RSS when it suits them, but at other times can claim to be tied by an umbilical cord to it. The RSS in turn can opportunistically own or disown the trishul-waving goondas of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and the Bajrang Dal.

Back in 1968, the scholar-statesman C. Rajagopalachari observed that the Jana Sangh (the predecessor of today’s BJP) was a party which "has quite a few good leaders". Then he added: "What is needed however is a broadmindedness that not just practices toleration but looks upon Mussalmans, Christians, Parsis and others as politically and culturally as good as Hindus." Forty years later, Indians still wait for that broadening of Hindutva minds. Perhaps the wait has been in vain. For, in its origins and core beliefs, the Sangh parivar is motivated by values and ideals that are antithetical to those of modern, secular, liberal democracy.

I forget who it was who called Atal Behari Vajpayee a mukhauta, a mere mask. Some younger leaders of the BJP have followed him in concealing a chauvinistic hard-core underneath an apparently modernist, cosmopolitan exterior.

As chief minister of Rajasthan, Vasundhara Raje has cultivated technocrats and multinational executives; but in the election that won her the job, she publicly supported the distribution of trishuls by that most bigoted of Hindu bigots, Praveen Togadia (don’t rule out, either, similarly cynical tactics when elections in Rajasthan next come around). The most ardent defender of Narendra Modi’s indefensible conduct during the pogrom against Muslims in Gujarat was the urbane, cricket-loving lawyer, Arun Jaitley. To cultivate the urban voter during the recent assembly elections in Karnataka, the BJP omitted any mention in their manifesto of their long-standing desire to convert a multi-faith shrine in the hills of Chikmagalur into an exclusively Hindu temple. That was merely a mask, however; their real sentiments and prejudices were revealed by the fact that not one of the 224 BJP candidates was a Muslim.

Some commentators use the term ‘Hindu nationalists’ to characterise the members and leaders of the Sangh parivar. It is a label that we must reject. How can they be called ‘nationalists’ when they would withhold full citizenship from those Indians who are Muslims or Christians or Parsis or atheists? One major Hindutva ideologue, Ashok Singhal, has long argued that India should emulate Pakistan by denying the top jobs to the minorities and by making them vote in separate electorates. The Hinduvta cadres take this kind of thinking to the streets, as in their notorious slogan, shouted during communal riots, of Pakistan ya Kabristan (Pakistan or the graveyard).

In fact, the Hindutvawadis treat as enemies even those Hindus, such as myself, who do not subscribe to their vision of what makes a true or faithful Indian. (My Inbox is filled with the most vicious abuse from RSS types. A sample: "Cowards like you shd get lost from India too. And take your crappy book with you- to wipe your dirty ass." And another: "You are busy r[e]ading literature glorifying Mr. Nehru and engaged with thoughts how to please and serve the shameless muslims of India whose forefathers have had br[u]talized the natives of India the hindus for about eight hund[r]ed years or how to please the British so that you can retain your job or m[i]grate either England or America and work there as a coolie.")"

Good reasons why they should be called "pseudonationalists".






Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
14
"There is also a serious threat offered by right-wing religious fundamentalism. However, while the Naxalites are implacably opposed to the Indian Constitution, the religious bigots work within the democratic process, seeking to divert and distort it. The word ‘Hindutva’ was coined by the revolutionary-turned-reactionary Vinayak Damodar Savarkar. The most effective work in pursuing the political philosophy that bears this name was undertaken by his younger colleague Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar. Golwalkar was head of the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS) in the first, formative decades of Indian independence. He was preceptor and mentor to, among other men, Atal Behari Vajpayee and Lal Krishna Advani, as well as countless other political activists who have occupied positions of influence and importance in different states of India.

Golwalkar’s core philosophy is contained in a book entitled A Bunch of Thoughts. Published in 1966, this is a collection of addresses delivered in RSS shakhas across the land. The book consistently elevates Hindus to a superior place in the history of humankind. Hindus had once ruled the world; and they would do so again in the future. Their science was once superior to Western science (Golwalkar sneered that the Europeans were eating raw, uncooked meat while we Hindus were composing the Vedas); and so it would be again.


Will India Become A Superpower?




(6 of 18)
In sum, the Hindus were a Chosen People, favoured by destiny and the Divine Spirit to rule over other lands and other religions.

If Hindutva merely promoted a nostalgia for the alleged achievements of the Hindus in the past, one need not have worried very much. But it also assures them victory in the present; and insists that this victory can come about only by trampling upon the rights of Indians who have the misfortune to be born in homes owing allegiance to faiths other than theirs. Golwalkar once went so far as to say that "in this land Hindus have been the owners, Parsis and Jews the guests, and Muslims and Christians the dacoits. Then do all these have the same right over the country?"

Golwalkar disliked Indian Christians, and positively detested Indian Muslims. He saw them as a fifth column always and invariably working against the interests of the Motherland. Towards the end of Bunch of Thoughts occurs this very chilling passage: "[W]hatever we believed in, the Muslim was wholly hostile to it. If we worship in the temple, he would desecrate it.... If we worship cow, he would like to eat it. If we glorify woman as a symbol of sacred motherhood, he would like to molest her. He was tooth and nail opposed to our way of life in all aspects—religious, cultural, social etc. He had imbibed that hostility to the very core."

This demonising of the Muslims had a political purpose. In the 1950s, and again in the 1960s, Golwalkar promoted a campaign to protect the cow, which he hoped would create a unified Hindu votebank; this naturally opposed to those Muslims who "like to eat cow while we worship it". Then, a decade after his death, the same themes and oppositions were resurrected via the dispute over the Babri Masjid. This dispute allowed Golwalkar’s followers to succeed where he himself had failed. The campaign to construct a Ram temple brought together a large number of believers and bigots spread across the country, these by no means representing the majority of the Hindu public opinion, but still large enough to provoke a series of communal riots (in which, inevitably, the main victims were Muslims), and to bring the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) to power in many states and, eventually, at the Centre."

Very lucid account of the rise of Hindutva.








Anwar Patel
Dallas Tx, United States
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
13
>> Real cause of our downfall is our Dharma`s teaching. Karmavipak Sidhanta and rebirth are true culprit of our tregedy. When most Hindu throgh away this doctrine from their psyche only then true reform is possible in India.`

The west's success story is due to providing equal high quality primary education provided to ALL. If this one step is taken in India, many problems will be solved. If the dalits, brahmins, muslims, OBCs, rich, poor etc all sit in the same class and learn high quality education, then that will resolve most of the issues.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
12
Shantakumar

>> Hindus do not have control over their place of worship.

If the division of brahmin/OBC/Dalit, with the latter being larger in number but with no temple rights/entry etc is not there, the state control of some temples may not have been there.

>> Recently DMK changed Tamil New Year from April to January to coincide with Christian Calendar

It has been moved to mid-january which Tamil nationalists claim is the right day (first day of the Tamil month Thai)

>> Special civil code for Muslims

When you have a large section of people who strongly believe that their religion demands some civil traditions to be followed, an intermediate step towards UCC is to allow that section to follow their civil code and give time for reform.

>> Haj Pilgrimage for Muslims

This was given as a token of reassurance. The govt has a record of giving special welfare schemes to different sections of society like dalits, OBCs, poor etc. This is one such.

>> Now Manmohan Singh gives special Muslim centric fund allocation ..

There is nothing wrong in uplifting Indian citizens if that section truly needs the upliftment (just as crores are spent for scholarships, reservations etc)

>> Jihadis are protected by the State..

Many actually think that even innocent muslims are victimized in several occassions with the 'benefit of doubt' always going against them.

>> Hindus are insulted and humiliated in media ..

That is a subjective perception. Many groups with diverse beliefs are clubbed into hinduism. You will find among hindus who belive that brahmins are exploiters Or those who believe that some beliefs are imposed by north indians/aryans on them Or those who think that that their religious traditions are erazed and forecully sanscritized etc. They are expressing their protests, beliefs etc.

>> Indian history books talk about Islam and Bristish phase of Indian history..

That is a pretty large and period of history and being the later period has a good record of history. Before also is there is history books, but not as chauvinistic/boisterous as some chauvinists would like.

>> When Malaysian Hindus were suffering

That was not a hindu religious issue.

>> When 8 Hindus were butchered by CPI in kerela no one cared to show that as breaking news but when Sitaram yechury's car windshield was broken it become a breaking news.

Well, a lot of dalit atrocities happen every day but media hardly bothers (hope you are talking about dalits!), but they pick a few high profile cases. A security breach or accident etc of a high level politician (including that of BJP) naturally draws the attention of media.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
11
Why Mr.Guha spend so much time, energy and space of magazine to say futile story?If he know deeply Indian psyche,he can say in one paragraph real cause of downfall of India.
Real cause of our downfall is our Dharma`s teaching. Karmavipak Sidhanta and rebirth are true culprit of our tregedy. When most Hindu throgh away this doctrine from their psyche only then true reform is possible in India.`
Ramesh Raghuvanshi
pune, India
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
10
>> He did mention it. But in the impact to india becoming superpower and developing/sustaining right nationalistic ideals, he rates hindu chauvinism as a greater threat in the context of India. If he is writing about Pakistan, he probably would have written that islamic chauvinism/fanatism as a greater threat.


Mr Kumar in the last 3 years there had been more than 20 bomb blasts engineering by Jihadis. More than 6500 Indians have been killed. Don't you and Mr. Guha think this to be a problem. Those events didn't take place in Pakistan.

shanthakumar
Chennai, India
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
9
Can anyone name me another country in this world which challenged the existence of a God in court?

Ambika Soni challenged the existence of Lord Ram in Supreme court to pave way for the destruction of Ram Sethu. Whether I believe in Lord Ram is immaterial all I want to know is would a small mosque be demolished in Calcutta that blocks the new airport? They needn't challenge the existence of Allah but would they atleast demolish it?

Amazing Secularism. Brilliant...
shanthakumar
Chennai, India
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
8
I want to know from this Morally Superior Selfless Torch bearer how he is completely blind to the following disparities in India

1. Hindus do not have control over their place of worship. Many temple boards are infiltrated by non-hindus
2. Recently DMK changed Tamil New Year from April to January to coincide with Christian Calendar. Tamil New Year is being celebrated on April 14 since time immemorial. They passed an GO and even forced temples all over Tamil Nadu from performing poojas this April 14. Would this be done to other religions in India? Mr Karunidhi forced Chidambaram temple to sing hymns in Tamil alone and not in Sanskrit. They even passed a bill in assembly. Would these guys care to promote Tamil in mosques and Churches alike? At least Sanskrit is an INdian language unlike Arabic and English.
3. Special civil code for Muslims
4. Haj Pilgrimage for Muslims
5. Now Manmohan Singh gives special Muslim centric fund allocation to the tune of 6 Lakh crore rupees in 11 Five year plan. That is close of 150 billion US dollars for five years. Whose money is it? Most tax payers are Hindus anyway. And why should this be done?
6. Jihadis are protected by the State. Even treason is tolerated as in the case of Afzal Guru.
7. Hindus are insulted and humiliated in media but the act is termed as secular. While the Information broadcasting minister Mr. Priyaranjan Dasmunshi wanted Tasleema to apologise for writting about attrocities on Hindus in Bangladesh .
7. Indian history books talk about Islam and Bristish phase of Indian history. And are made to believe that they were only the best phase of Indian history.
8. Even Indian foreign policy is anti-Hindu. When Malaysian Hindus were suffering our Prime Minister said it was an internal problem of Malaysia. But when Danish cartoons were published India summoned Danish Ambassador to protest. What a great Secular deed?
8. When 8 Hindus were butchered by CPI in kerela no one cared to show that as breaking news but when Sitaram yechury's car windshield was broken it become a breaking news. Don't Hindu lives have any value in this country?

I can go on like this you idiot but I am sure the day is not far when there will be retribution for all this injustice. You guys are fanning crystalisation of Hindu emotions.
shanthakumar
Chennai, India
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
7
Shantakumar,

>> Why doesn't this leftist scumbag mention the threat of Jihadis?

He did mention it. But in the impact to india becoming superpower and developing/sustaining right nationalistic ideals, he rates hindu chauvinism as a greater threat in the context of India. If he is writing about Pakistan, he probably would have written that islamic chauvinism/fanatism as a greater threat.

>> What do these guys want? Complete decimation of Hindus?

He certainly wants decimation of fanatism/chauvinism. If you are confusing that with decimation of religion, then it is you who needs to correct your definitions.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
6
Why doesn't this leftist scumbag mention the threat of Jihadis? I wish this guy be hanged as soon as possible. It is important to rid India of people like this spineless Guha chap. Why haven't these buggers reported bravely the problems India faces through Jihadi and Church sponsored Terrorism in NE and rest of India. I felt sick reading this guy's pukeworthy rant.
What do these guys want? Complete decimation of Hindus? Don't Hindus have rights of their own. All these are attempts to keep alive the false sense of guilt the left has carefully cultivated since independence.

Stop these futile attempts Mr. Falsehood. Your only claim to fame is Hindu bashing. Look Guha idiot people like you have been exposed repeatedly. I think this effort of yours is a desperate attempt to sway English educated Indians to vote Congress to power. Otherwise you will find yourself at the receiving end. I wish I get an opportunity to destroy people like you and banish them to oblivion. Preferably a sub Saharan desert or perhaps your beloved Jihadi land.
shanthakumar
Chennai, India
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
5
Why doesn't this leftist scumbag mention the threat of Jihadis? I wish this guy be hanged as soon as possible. It is important to rid India of people like this spineless Guha chap. Why haven't these buggers reported bravely the problems India faces through Jihadi and Church sponsored Terrorism in NE and rest of India. I felt sick reading this guy's pukeworthy rant.
What do these guys want? Complete decimation of Hindus? Don't these people have rights of their own. All these are attempts to keep alive the false sense of guilt the left has carefully cultivated since independance.
shanthakumar
Chennai, India
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
4
Asking Ramchandra Guha to write an essay on 'Will India Become A Superpower? ' is like asking a mullah to write an essay on cow worship. Why waste precious bandwidth and paper when you know what the answer is going to be?
Rajeev
Delhi, India
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
3
I agree with this essay almost in its entirety.

>> an inclusive, plural and non-adversarial model of nationalism

Sounds like a good definition of true/legitimate/humanist nationalism to be adopted.

>> Golwalkar...The book consistently elevates Hindus to a superior place in the history of humankind. Hindus had once ruled the world...

Looks like the rehtoric of all extremists/terrorists sound similar. "The real hate figure for the Sangh parivar is the Muslim. But .. they actually secretly admire and even wish to emulate their historic enemies. What the BJP wanted for India, .. was to construct "an Islamic State—for Hindus".

>> We need to repair, one by one, the institutions that have safeguarded our unity amidst diversity, and to forge, also one by one, the new institutions that can help us meet the fresh challenges of the 21st century. It will be hard, patient, slow work—that is to say, the only kind of work that is ever worth it.

Very True!! As rightly said in the article, the Congress unfortunately has become too weak and degenearted. The common man has to take up this task which is "hard, patient, slow work".
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
2
"Will India become a superpower?"

Well not as long as we are ruled by a "peacenik" alongwith the Congress in collusion with the Left. They are all defeatist beggars.

However, thank God for the BJP and RSS. Now India not becoming a superpower is not a foregone conclusion.
ARVIND
ROCHESTER, United States
Jun 21, 2008 12:00 AM
1
Another long winding gas bag from a leftist scum.

Manoj
Bangalore, India
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