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Society  / Cover Stories Magazine | Mar 24, 2008
english
English Speaking Curse
English is a source of anxiety, even despair, for its have-nots
The buzz around "fixing" India's English is growing louder and louder....

  • The British Council plans to train 7,50,000 Indian teachers in English over the next five years
  • Narendra Modi is paying for 5 lakh young Gujaratis to learn English in time for Gujarat's golden jubilee in 2010
  • A new English-teaching TV programme, Angrezi Mein Kehte Hain, is being launched on NDTV to cash in on the huge aspiration for English
  • A Hyderabad-based company has announced plans to deliver a daily dose of English words and their meanings to mobile phones, so that Indians can improve their English vocabulary
  • The Delhi government is teaching cabbies to speak English in time for the Commonwealth Games in 2010

Brajesh Kumar's personal file is pristine - no thumbmarks, no blotches, no yellowing pages. There wasn't time. Within weeks of his joining a private engineering college in upscale Greater Noida, the 22-year-old had committed suicide, leaving a note saying that he could not cope with courses taught in English. An engineering diploma-holder from Jaunpur in UP, Brajesh cleared an all-UP competitive exam to get into the second year of a degree course at the Noida college. In his slim personal file, there were pictures of an intense-looking young man, forms filled in a neat, careful English handwriting, copies of school and college certificates that showed that while Brajesh had studied English as a subject until Class 10, the rest of his education, including his diploma, was in Hindi. He had also taken the competitive exam in Hindi. As a second-year student, he had no access to the Noida college's English skills programme, provided only to first-year students, and could not afford private coaching.


The English-excluded: The grieving family of Brajesh, who committed suicide as he couldn't cope with courses in English

***
Student who scored 100 in CBSE Class 12 
English exam in e-mail to Outlook: 
"It all depends on how one pen down the ideas.... 
The flow in the language helped me fetched marks."

***

For the college director who showed me his file, Brajesh's death last October was a moral tale - not about unequal access to English, but about excessive parental ambition. "What was the need to do a degree?" he asked. "With his diploma, he could have become a government junior engineer." Brajesh's brother Pramod, on the other hand, stressed that it was Brajesh, the youngest of four sons of a railway carpenter, who wanted the degree and a 'good post' afterwards. "These were ideas he got from his friends' circle, not at home," he explained.

After a conversation with Prof R.K. Agnihotri, a sociolinguist at Delhi University, it became clear that Brajesh's story was more a paradox than a parable. Agnihotri pointed out that unlike in the 1960s and 1970s, when most avenues in higher education were closed to those without English, "it is now possible, with some dignity, to survive without English, to even go from Class 1 to PhD in your state without much English." When it comes to passing English exams, he added, the system tends to be lenient with students from non-English medium backgrounds, rather than holding them back only because of poor English. In other words, the very system that helped a first-generation learner from an east UP village climb the education ladder by not fetishising English, aided his downfall when his aspirations took him - as they are taking millions of ambitious young Indians - into an often terrifying world of English.

Cases of college students killing themselves because of frustration with English - at least four in recent months - usually get only passing mention in the English press. (It was significantly the editor of a Hindi daily, Mrinal Pande, who wrote the only comment piece on the Brajesh case in the mainstream English media.) Stories that make the cut in this world are those validating India's self-image as an upbeat nation of English speakers. We celebrate international prizes won by Indian writers, the competitive advantage that English proficiency gives India in the global marketplace and the self-confident inventiveness with which Indians have hybridised English and made it their own. We even tell the story of people rushing to English-language teaching shops as one of canny entrepreneurship meeting a robust spirit of self-improvement, underplaying the fact that it also reflects an education system failing to deliver English proficiency (and that the self-improvers are mostly being taken for a ride). What we also underplay or gloss over is that as the stock of English rises in what linguist Prof Rukmini Bhaya Nair calls 'the language Sensex', English is increasingly becoming a source of anxiety, even despair, for those attempting to cross the boundaries separating those who "have" English from those who don't.

***
Press release from a PR agency --
"I will be happy if you met Ray, his painting and his
thought. I have send you the invite prior."

***

Shortchanged: Infantile approach to teaching English helps none

Some of the celebratory writing on English doesn't communicate how sharp those boundaries can be. In a piece hailing the coming-of-age of Inglish (English mixed with 'Indian') as both the "aspirational language of the lower and middle classes and the fashionable language of drawing rooms", columnist Gurcharan Das wrote: "One of the cheerful things happening in India is the quiet democratisation of English." Quoting language expert David Crystal ("If 100 million Indians pronounce an English word in a certain way, this is more than Britain's population - so it's the only way to pronounce it"), Das also speculated: Is Inglish our conquest of English?

Das's observations do capture a truth - we hear it all around us - but it's only a partial one. There are many worlds of English in India, and not all are blithely democratic. In the intensely desired world of BPOs, IT majors and MNCs, language gatekeepers are turning down all but a minuscule number of applying graduates. According to Uma K. Raman, head, Skills Enhancement, HCL BPO, her company rejects 92-93 per cent of applicants for poor English. Sandhya Chitale, director, Nasscom's Educational Initiative, puts the rejection rate for non-engineering graduates applying to the IT and IT-enabled sector, both in "voice" and "non-voice" roles, at 82-83 per cent, for lack of soft skills, including written and oral English. About 65-75 per cent of applying engineers are rejected for the same reasons.

***
Teaching exercise in a magazine brought out by a
popular English teaching institute--
Incorrect sentence : "Oh, he has the same car with yours?"
Correct sentence: "Oh, he has the same car like yours?"
Incorrect sentence : "Let me check your pic again see
how is your beautiful eyes looks like. Ahha"
Correct sentence: "Let me take a look at your pic again
and see how beautiful your eyes look like. Haha"

***


These trainers are almost ruthlessly clear that "Inglish", far from being the only way to say it, is not the 'right' way to say it or write it. "Indians can speak English in a cultural context but, and this is especially true of engineering graduates, we are not competent to use the language to communicate with someone other than Indian," says Raman. Her catalogue of errors made by "second level" users of the language includes: inappropriate use of articles, incorrect use of the plural and singular, mixing up of genders, lack of subject-verb agreement (for example, "The children is going to school") and wrong tenses. A typical conversation that causes confusion at both ends, says Raman, goes something like this:

Q: What is your favourite hobby? A: I used to go to the movies Q:Why did you stop going? A: What? (He didn't mean to say he had stopped going, but that he often went to movies.)


You know what I mean: Spellings run amok across the country. Democratisation of English?

"The curricula only emphasise reading and writing, not listening and speaking. You can't get a sentence out of a student who is asked to talk about himself," says Chitale bluntly. Raman declares written English even worse than spoken. "There is a myth that Indians are good at grammar," he says, "but they are only good at learning concepts - what is a noun, what is an adjective - not at applying them."

***
Tip from English teacher to Class 12 students --
"Keep the language simple and yet so crispy...
do not get deviate from topic."

***

Underlying these comments is, far from competitive-advantage complacency, considerable anxiety about a shrinking recruitment pool. With a growth rate of 33 per cent, and a 40 per cent attrition rate, the sector wants to hire more, but, says Chitale, "The numbers are there, the quality isn't." As it moves into Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities, she says, the English gets poorer.



In the Humanities section of one of the country's IITs, where English teaching is taken more seriously than in most engineering colleges, I hear the same conversation from a different perspective. Many new entrants to IITs struggle, teachers say, in communication classes. The demand for remedial English has grown, supply cannot keep pace. The expectation of students that English can be "learnt in a single day" to measure up to the global marketplace does not help. Many students have difficulty organising and expressing their thoughts in a coherent language structure. Ninety per cent of his students, says one teacher, would find it hard to describe a simple concept like evaporation in a couple of logically linked sentences. "They can give you points, but can't connect them," he said. The teachers make an important fundamental point, which I hear repeated, time and again, by teachers in other institutions. These problems have their roots in students being language-impoverished rather than just English-impoverished (that is, demonstrating a poor ability in regional languages too), and being virtually cut off from the humanities stream from senior school.

***

English writing abilities of school students 
is poor, even in the country's top schools. 
A 2006 survey (conducted jointly by 
Wipro Applying Thought in Schools and
the organisation Educational Initiatives) among 
Class 4-8 students in 134 top English medium schools 
in the five metros found that 80 per cent of students 
even in Class 8 make mistakes in 
comprehension, grammar and syntax.

***

Another unequal world is that of the English language teaching industry, that teeming hub for seekers of 'good' English. They want 'good' English, not just for BPO jobs and scaling linguistic walls that prevent them from studying or working abroad, but also for better-paid jobs in malls, retail chains, airlines, hotels, restaurants, media, banking and finance. 'Good' English also gets you better treatment, English-seekers tell you poignantly, in malls, fancy showrooms, from sellers of financial services. This world is a living illustration of Nair's assertion that 'good' English matters, "not for moral or prescriptive reasons, but because this is the perception of those who demand English - the consumers of English."

A smiling, red-lipsticked blonde woman painted on a board that lights up at night beckons some of these consumers to a "premium institution for spoken and advanced English" in a south Delhi colony. Sitting in on an 'exclusive' teaching session conducted by one of the thousands of MAs in English who have descended on the English teaching scene, I can see this is a power relationship. The teacher is omniscient, even if she says "Gayatri is going to expose more to foreign buyers" while explaining why her student, who works in an export unit, needs to improve her English. The students, Gayatri and Anish - a young contractor who supplies marble and needs better English to work on a big Indian construction company's project in Singapore - are eager but diffident. They pay around Rs 2,500 a month for lessons. A dubious-looking Hindi-English guide is being used. Course materials lying around the "premium institution" turn out to be stuff the proprietor "burnt nights", as he puts it, printing off the Net. What he's got together is truly nightmarish: a mish-mash of definitions of auxiliary verbs, hackneyed proverbs (man proposes, god disposes), American "slangs" and "jargons" (airhead, hunk, chocoholic), tongue-twisters, teaching exercises that seem to have been written for Chinese students, with references to common Chinese errors. American English is the place's forte, I am told, and a class could begin, says one teacher, by her walking in and saying, "Hi dudes and dudettes".


Teacher knows all: Or does she?

That's the home-made English academy, at the opposite end of the market from the superior language courses sold by the British Council for around Rs 9,000 per two-month term of instruction, and there are different shades in between. The clamour to sell English to millions of eager India buyers - individuals, corporate houses, state governments - is growing. While "academies" are advancing into tehsil towns and pockmarking hill stations with their boards, UK language schools are eyeing the Indian market.

***

Rejected For Poor English: 82-83 per cent 
of non-engineering graduates applying to 
the IT and IT-enabled sector and 65-75 per cent 
of applying engineers are rejected for lacking 
soft skills, including written and oral English  fluency.
-- Sandhya Chitale, director of Nasscom's Educational Initiative

***

The British Council has redirected its energies in India into the training of Indian teacher-trainers in English and in engaging with corporate houses for English training, say the council's Kevin McLevine and Jill Coates. It's a shrewd move, comments linguist N.S. Prabhu, that will help British ideas, products, materials, specialists and institutions flow into the Indian market. British prime minister Gordon Brown, who believes that teaching English will become one of Britain's biggest exports, announced during his recent visit to India that Britain would train 7,50,000 Indian teachers of English over the next five years. The British tabloid The Sun called it "PM Brown's English invasion". (Yes, anti-colonial opposition to English is well and truly dead.)

Meanwhile, the buzz around quick solutions to language problems is also growing louder. Learning from China's drive to drill Olympic-appropriate phrases into the heads of Beijing's citizens, Delhi's government is teaching cabbies to spout English (if only it could get them to fix their meters too). Narendra Modi has mandated language teaching academies to provide government-subsidised English training to Gujarati youth, in order to change the perception that Gujaratis can't speak and write good English, and wants five lakh trained in time for Gujarat's golden jubilee in 2010.

Quickfixes, say the experts, invariably result in large numbers of people moving around with templates of sentences in their heads, a superficial, limited language acquisition, similar to the way tourist guides speak different languages. Sometimes it works, at other times it causes huge anxiety. Vijaya Subramaniam, deputy principal of the Sardar Patel Vidyalaya, and a regular user of Delhi's Metro, marvels at how a few catchy sentences and phrases, incorporating words such as "cool", "dude" and "awesome", enables commuting college students with shaky English to belong to the group. On the other hand, Maya Roy, a trainee chef who interned at a five-star hotel, describes how traumatic it is for wait staff and chefs with a limited stock of English sentences to deal with unexpected questions from hotel guests.

Meeting the country's large-scale demand for job-oriented learning of English without moving towards "fixed phrase parroting" is a big challenge, says Prabhu. Motivated advice from the language-teaching industry doesn't help, he warns, because it fosters the false belief that you can acquire a language quickly. "Language learning," Prabhu stresses, "is an organic process - you can't grow a plant in three days instead of three years." Nair says, in the same vein, "Language is not a prosthetic limb, you can't attach it, you have to grow it."



What the experts seem to be saying is that you have to grow it, with some dedication, through the education system. Parents across the country, desperate to advance their children's futures in a world of English, know that.

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Filed In Topics: English Language, Anjali Puri
More In: Society, Cover Stories
 
Daily MailPublished
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Apr 02, 2008 12:00 AM
50
commendable analysis. But where is the panacea? Kindly suggest solutions. Advise how to change for better.
brindakumarakrishnan
mumbai, India
Mar 23, 2008 12:00 AM
49
Rajesh:>>"if you confine 100 brahmins in a room, they would spend no time to create varieties and sub-castes within. This is the essence of brahmanical system."

This is typical of indians in general, not just brahmins. Where there are ten indians, there will be eleven opinions, as they say. A box of indian frogs needs no lid, since each indian frog will ensure his neighbour not moving up.
Familiarity breeds contempt, across caste-groups and within all caste-groups of indians. Main reason Nehru got chosen as leader, or sonia being leader now, is that competing indians saw jawahar as kashmiri, not indian; sonia as italian, not indian. Millennial prehistoric memories on ovderlapping civilizations tend to build micro-distinctions. India has to live with it, not new countries like USA.


v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 23, 2008 12:00 AM
48
Rajesh:
I can only repeat my suggested solution to the problem as below:

If caste/creed are forgotten, govts/ngos/corpos intensely concentrate on parallel courses and repayable scholarships for poor, use retired teachers from good schools for quality teaching of engl, sc, tech, mgmt for nominal payments, college admissions without, reserv poison in kids' minds can be made, purely on merit, without separate group lists, since all would be almost on par in merit levels, at adm times.

Kids can befriend all and move freely, if caste-consciousness is eliminated at andmission time.
Caste and creed can then slowly become private affairs only. All cultures can join all others in humanitarian enthusiasm, in the festivals of all other cultures also.

Perhaps, the coincidence of the important holidays for 4 religions occurrinng on the same day, on Friday last week, is an indication of divine will in the above direction.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 22, 2008 12:00 AM
47
Seshadri,
>> I did not know the caste of my next boy on bench. Now, kids sit in specific caste-groups in pg classes in prestigious institutes, thanks to caste-poison in adm.

You are correct. Here is why.
In old days, people in descent position (call it Babu class) were expected to be high caste. Because the caste based segregation was so complete.
But it is naive to assume that students or professionals did not know each other's caste. Even when the colleges were full of brahmins, students were aware of hierarchy. Jagjeevan Ram observed this and predicted that if you confine 100 brahmins in a room, they would spend no time to create varieties and sub-castes within. This is the essence of brahmanical system.

Now back to presumed lack of caste awareness in older days. It did have some good in it. It was easy for a low caste to blend, without without divulging caste. I experience same here in US. It is well known that old Indian social order is preserved in past generation of Indian immigrants. It is like time capsule. You can see 1960-70. Now these generations presume my caste as one of them and start talking about the virtue of Hindu order, praise RSS, curse Laloo and so forth.
Later when more low caste entered priviledged or Babu class, the system got confused and forced acute awareness of caste. Obviously it is bad for some people and good for the rest. It depends who you ask.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Mar 22, 2008 12:00 AM
46
Rajesh>>"Are you suggesting that reservation is to blame for non-performance of public sector? Please go around and see the recruitment policy of private sectors. There is hardly any policy. A lot of people get into due to "connections"."

Nepotism does prevail in private sector. But, when firms fail, only the uncles and nephews pay for losses, they are not transferred to the tax-payers, as in non-perf public-sector firms. Private sector ensures only true merit is allowed to move into high-responsibility positions, to ensure survival in competitive commercial world.

I was in final yr BE in kamaraj days, govt engrs appointed on caste, addressing students, mentioned that only caste, not univ marks/ranks were significant in recruitment, ranking and promos in govt service. Most students lost interest in securing high ranks or marks.

Now, MK is telling all NB school kids, you need only 40% marks to get into any engg college, if you can get some tahsildhar testify you are a BC. Only B's cant get adm, even with 60% as socalled minimum, even in pvt colleges. They are literally driven out, it is also divine will, the western univ are now aware of the high potential of south indian kids, these are now helping the whole world come up in sc/tech/mgmt, stigma on hindus as pagans and infidels being also removed from the western and mid-eastern minds.

>>"More about impact of reservation or quota in any organization. In companies, especially in US, annual rating & raking of employees categorize top performers (say 10%) and bottom performers (10%). I guarantee that any reservation policy will not adversely affect the quality of top 10% performance. Bottom 10% performers probably disproportionally include quota beneficiaries. But the reservation policy enables a lot of minorities to get in."

You are right. But you also know this is not what is done by the caste-reserve policies in govt and PSOs in india, in recruitment and promos at each level to the very top. If the ravanizn of the supreme court is also completeted, raakshasizn of india will start, really. OBC MPs will enact in parliament that some OBC type landlord/warlord/collegelord/slumlord/partylord should have the 'right of the first night' on any newly-wed bride in india. The casteist SC might endorse the legislation, the way Lallu is being helped out on cases against him.

Right ends can be achieved only if the means are maintained right and straight, very carefully, with micro-attention to details, something leaders of nehru days did ensure; may be bec they did not need votebanks to win elections..
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 22, 2008 12:00 AM
45
Perian:>>" In Chennai IIT, I myself experienced the careful and highly bothered question of 'are you an SC/ST?' like that when i approached for seeking details about a course"

They could have been asked with the idea that they might need extra assistance and coaching, not out of caste-despise. You should also remember that SCs have suffered mostly from OBC/BC, not the Bs. Most SCs of today are pre-moghul Bs, really.

Reality is that when Bs who are IIT-pg's apply for Anna Univ teaching jobs, they are straight away asked : how dare you apply here being a B? Seen some surviving on music-coaching, instead.

>>" If people like you are the intelligentsia, then TN does'nt want intelligentia at all."

People like me are nowhere near power, please be assured. I did not become head or dean even in IITM, bec NBs dominated the board. The few Bs in power are the beef-eater Bs from Annamalai Univ, they proclaim their contempt for the sacred thread and propel their position up in MK's TN. I did not even accept sugg for prof-emer in AU after retire from ITM, really. I served a chr college for 4 yrs bec a chr school gave me halfscholarship as a kid; a nadar college for 5 yrs bec a naidu college [psg] was kind enough to take a B like me in its first batch even during kamaraj days. I have paid for favors received. Now I am just waiting for release from the world, that is all.

>>"You people are showing the way to a place that does'nt exist at all. Common people can never develop even after one lakh years if things are done according to your will and advice."

yogee loka-pitaamahah: a devout scholar considers the whole world as his grand-kids, only affection for all. The mother of a big family treats each kid as per specific reqmnt. medicine for sick kid, more food for one who does heavy housework.

If caste/creed are forgotten, govts/ngos/corpos intensely concentrate parallel courses and repayable scholarships for poor, use retired teachers from good schools for quality teaching of engl, sc, tech, mgmt for nominal payments, college admissions without reserv poison in kids' minds can be made, purely on merit. As a kid in brit-days, I did not know the caste of my next boy on bench. Now, kids sit in specific caste-groups in pg classes in prestigious institutes, thanks to caste-poison in adm. If caste colours the minds of pg-medics, you can only see anbumani-venugopal fights and surgeons doing bad jobs on patients of other castes. Castes have cast India into a real hell! Try to get her out of it, that is all I say.

>>"These unwanted things in this forum started only when Dr Seshadri poured venom on TN politics."

TN has successfully exported periarism to whole of india via vpsingh and arjun singh; only silver lining is that mayavati has come out of the caste-maya!

I have only love for tamil and TN. If you look at the map of India, the face of mother india is TN, facing east, chennai the tilak spot! Rest of india, just her hair in flowback. No wonder chennai is the intellectual capital of india.

'kaancee-venkaTa-cin-madhye mata-raaSir mahaa-puree, yatra satsangha-saamartyaat nityam daivata-samnidhih', annie besant, vivekananda, arbindo/mother, mahesh yogi all attracted here before worldlevel achievements.

I am not pouring venom, only causing downpours of rain, sitting here in pooja and prayers and meditation. Rain-water harvesting, with rain brought by good people with god on their minds, is the real answer to draughts in India. nallaar oruvar uLarel avar poruttu ellarkum peyyum mazhai, says aabhaaryaa [avvaiyaar]. Projects for interconnection of rivers will only fill the pockets of politicians and deprive the power-less poor of what little lands they still have, by acquistion by govts. I hope wisdom dawns before it is too late!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 22, 2008 12:00 AM
44
seshadri

there is nothing in your post that says lower caste candidates are not being treated badly. It is all very good how you helped your students. maybe you did treat your students fairly maybe not. But it is a fact and it has been published in all the newspapers cutting across party affiliation. If you believe that all of the press is against then you are not a liar but in denial or may be getting along in years.

Anyways this article is about English being taught in schools. One sad fact is that education belongs in state list, hence Central government cannot intervene directly. If it moves education to central list than there is a bigger fear of subversion when and if fascist party comes to power in center. Center has to workout a procedure to implement teaching of English in municipal schools so that poorest of poor may have a chance to compete in the job market.
pkkumar
pune, India
Mar 21, 2008 12:00 AM
43
Although counteries like Russia,France and Japan have had a marvellous economic and technological growth without emphasis on English.We have reached a point from where there is no turning back.The solution of the"Inglish" problem is a rework curriculum with emphasis on reading and classroom interaction in English.Well trained teachers rather than the regular "shifarshis" and introduction of english language at an early stage of child's academic development is the need of the hour
sumeet_trehan
chandigarh, India
Mar 21, 2008 12:00 AM
42
To Dr Seshadri and Mr Sathyamurthi,
You people are the world's biggest liars. I am not brain washed by any political outfit. In Chennai IIT, I myself experienced the careful and highly bothered question of 'are you an SC/ST?' like that when i approached for seeking details about a course. And the message buried in that question, i understood clearly. So don't hide. And my friends also told me a lot. If people like you are the intelligentsia, then TN does'nt want intelligentia at all. You people are showing the way to a place that does'nt exist at all. Common people can never develop even after one lakh years if things are done according to your will and advice. These unwanted things in this forum started only when Dr Seshadri poured venom on TN politics. TN has lot of people who came and settled from elsewhere. Many are less in number too. But they are not attacked and only you great people are attacked? The system created by some people like you for their welfare sitting on the top has ruined this country more than else. Now other people, who are in middle and lower strata of the society, are pushed to assert their identity even for their basic needs ( which is happening in Bihar and UP). The situation is so grim that many of them can survive in this country only by asserting their group identity. Even though they are willing to give up all these nonsense, they are unable due to a lot of reasons. All these nonsense only due to people like you. For all these days people like you have lifted this country and its people to paradise and now you are running away to lift other countries. Any how, atleast by running away, you are doing good to this country.
perian
chennai, india
Mar 21, 2008 12:00 AM
41
>> Visweswaraiya, Tirumalrao type engrs builts our dams and powerhouses, getting worldwide renown for india's govt engrs. With inv-caste anti-merit regimes, our govt engg depts nowadays can only prolong projects indefinitely.

Are you suggesting that reservation is to blame for non-performance of public sector?
Please go around and see the recruitment policy of private sectors. There is hardly any policy. A lot of people get into due to "connections".

More about impact of reservation or quota in any organization. In companies, especially in US, annual rating & raking of employees categorize top performers (say 10%) and bottom performers (10%). I guarantee that any reservation policy will not adversely affect the quality of top 10% performance. Bottom 10% performers probably disproportionally include quota beneficiaries. But the reservation policy enables a lot of minorities to get in.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Mar 21, 2008 12:00 AM
40
Seshadri,
>> Prof. Indiresan was once asked by some SC/ST MPs why very few SC/ST were faculty in IITs. He told them PhD is reqd for promotable IIT faculty.

There is big difference between words and action of IIT directors.
They are liers, pure and simple.
Just a few weeks ago, directors of all IITs were summoned by HR ministry for non-implementation of SC/ST reservation in faculty. Directors, then pleaded ignorance, told they were not aware of such policy. The ministry then asked for evidence or notification for such assumption. The directors went mum.
As expected, there were no action against these directors for willful disregard of government's policy.
It is clear that the qualification issue is only meant for people consumption. Truth is that they never intend to implement the policy.

>> Merit-compromized reervation becomes deformative action instead of affirmative action, in the long run.

Really?? If that's the case then states like Bihar and UP were most advanced due to history of non-implementation of reservation.

There has been several studies showing the possible impact of reservation in hypercompetative institutions like IITs and IIMs. By relaxing a percentage point will open door for countless OBCs, without affecting the quality.

If you are so concerned about merit then why don't you oppose private professional colleges? Their admission policy is primarily based on money, reservation for the rich. You don't oppose because it favors upper castes.

>> apply affirmative selections only on merit-equalized lists, as in USA.

I don't know what you mean here. But I have seen affirmative action in USA. The difference between Blacks and general category is much more compare to SC/ST and general category in India. Despite this affirmative action in US is vigorously pursued. One can see the level representation of minorities in everywhere including premier institutions like MIT, Harward. IITs, on the hand, supposedly 100% merit based, are nowhere near the top league.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Mar 21, 2008 12:00 AM
39
PKK:>>"Again lying through his teeth. Either he is a chronic liar or is in denail. It has been documented in national daily only last that how lower caste candidates are being treated in these premier institutions of India."

Professors do not tell lies. News media often behave like views-spreaders, towing some poilitical party-line or socio-economic ideology.

IITs are committed to honest tech-educ at cutting-edge levels; the profs teach to latest publications, not even for textbooks or syllabi;
question papers based on matter taught in class.
Reservations can apply only for admissions, not to the number of 'A' grades given to students of different communities in each class.

Govt and NGOs should concentrate on scholarships, free additional evg classes for youngsters from rural or backw backgrounds, to bring them on par with the forw groups. Backwardness in class or caste can be quickly eliminated if sincerely countered, but will only be perpetuated if used as a political lever by parties or conversional lever by churchians.

For all subjects taught by me in IITM, some 20 of them in 30 yrs at UG and PG levels, I distributed Q & A notes to students, for free copying or internet distrubution to other students in other colleges also; did not pick up offers from publishers for textbook writing with profit motive. When Vinod Mehta once wrote that he spent 3k on an evg's dinner, I commented that was the monthly pension on which I retired after serving 30 yrs in IITM, whose products are eagerly absorbed by MNCs of the world. I have no interest or need for lying thro my teeth.

>>>"double standard of political leaders in all these states. Their own children study in the best of the English Medium schools, while they implement policies to teach children of general puclic in local language"

In full agreement with you.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 21, 2008 12:00 AM
38
It is the result of double standard of political leaders in all these states. Their own children study in the best of the English Medium schools, while they implement policies to teach children of general puclic in local language. Case in point is very public exposure of Jyoti Basu who was the CM at that time. While he was implementing policies to forever teach in Bengali in municipal schools his own children went to swank English medium schools. Since in a few years India is going to be the largest English speaking community, why not start teaching in English and start teaching English right from the beginning of a childs education. Especially in the light of fact that China has started teaching from 1st standard since last year.
pkkumar
pune, India
Mar 21, 2008 12:00 AM
37
" served in an IIT for 30 yrs. I can assure you that SC/ST students are not in any way illtreated. The reserved seats for SC/ST do not get fully filled in IITs bec enough candidates do not fufil the 30% min marks reqd in JEE for their admission. Those who get adm have difficulty making the passing grades. Bec of the grade-pts system in the IITs, they are allowed to take reduced number of courses per semester, some finish in 5 to 7 yrs instead of 4. Additional parallel classes are held for them to improve their grades. Those who cant make it even in 7 yrs are given BSc degrees instead of BTech."

Again lying through his teeth. Either he is a chronic liar or is in denail. It has been documented in national daily only last that how lower caste candidates are being treated in these premier institutions of India.
pkkumar
pune, India
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
36
Perian:>>"I read in news papers that SC/ST students were discriminated and ill treated in AIIMS and IITs"

I served in an IIT for 30 yrs. I can assure you that SC/ST students are not in any way illtreated. The reserved seats for SC/ST do not get fully filled in IITs bec enough candidates do not fufil the 30% min marks reqd in JEE for their admission. Those who get adm have difficulty making the passing grades. Bec of the grade-pts system in the IITs, they are allowed to take reduced number of courses per semester, some finish in 5 to 7 yrs instead of 4. Additional parallel classes are held for them to improve their grades. Those who cant make it even in 7 yrs are given BSc degrees instead of BTech.

Prof. Indiresan was once asked by some SC/ST MPs why very few SC/ST were faculty in IITs. He told them PhD is reqd for promotable IIT faculty. They asked who gives the PhD, he said IITs themselves do; they told him, then you give them PhD and promote them, caste-based PhDs by reserv perhaps, without research, thesis or viva! Would you call that affirmative action?.

Perhaps there is a divine will behind the indian caste sytem, but for that, india will have no hindus left, only moslems, like Iran with no persians, possibly called islamia instead of india. Glassknap [german indologist] says the moghuls planned for delhi to be named mohammedabad, benares as islamabad, also; they only succeeded in making prayag into Allahabad, may be bec allah = hara = Siva, anyway. Mother India has suffered enormously over the millennia, bec of demons and divines fighting in the arctic ice-cone pregangetic millenia, between humans and cannibalic rakshasas in ramayan days 7 millennia back, among 56 south-asian states during the mahaabhaarata days 5 millenia ago, betw karmakanda hindus and buddheists 2 millennia back, and conflicts of the indic civilization with greeks, moslems-turks and brittish-churchians over the last 2 millennia. Most other nations would have been wiped out by such onslaughts, but India has not only survived but is now trying to stand up again as a world power. Some very unfortunate social stains and strains have been inherited by us, bec of the turbulence gone thro. Please give a little more time and lend your support for rectifying them properly, without supporting antinational and divisive forces which are only interested in stopping India's growth, stability and survival into the new century, to please extranational interests.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
35
Rajesh to satyamoorthy:>>"You can't call denial of opportunity due to affirmative action as injustice and malicious"

Even 50 yrs ago, it was known that Dr.ALMudaliar will prefer NB to B in selections, if both were of 'equal merit', to ensure affirmative action for NBs with disproportionate representation in services as per their population. Not even his brahmin friends objected. Such affirmative action for disadvantaged groups is rightly being done in US also.

Injustice to the country is done if merit in selections is sacrificed as an inverted castocracy. Kamaraj combined selections to engg services for 4 yrs, placed lower castes on higher ranks systematically, ignoring merit or marks. I did not accept govt posting, [in 1955],went abroad on TCM scholarship of USA, could get into IITM bec it was under union govt, not under kamaraj. Before kamaraj, univ top-rankers in engg were appointd as AE's directly, others as JE's. Visweswaraiya, Tirumalrao type engrs builts our dams and powerhouses, getting worldwide renown for india's govt engrs. With inv-caste anti-merit regimes, our govt engg depts nowadays can only prolong projects indefinitely. Now, projects are given only as turn-key jobs to private companies, by most state govts also, and no tenderers in bihar.

Merit-compromized reervation becomes deformative action instead of affirmative action, in the long run. Kids of preferred reserved castes tend to take things easy, get admitted on lower marks, tend to work less on course also after adm, come out unemployable, ask for reserv in private jobs also, get laid off, eventually.
Non-preferred-class kids get more and more scared, work all the harder, shoot up in life, creating new companies and types of jobs for themselves, acceleration proportional to force in socio-economics also. If MK et. al. really want social equality in the long run, their psychophants in educ sector should be asked to concentrate on bringing up the merit levels of disadv groups with free make-up classes, apply affirmative selections only on merit-equalized lists, as in USA. Propagation of opportunities among disadvantages classes will be slower, but their real progress will be steady, eventually classwise differences in merit, performance and earnings will all disappear, caste and creed will lose political leverage. Country will see real democracy of growth with justice.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
34
The top ranked student -'..The flow in the language helped me fetched marks...."
And the teacher- "do not get deviate from topic."
Were they quoted as a examples of good English and good advise or was that an editorial slip to high litrequisitee the grammatical errors? Can English improve when parochialism rules the country from north to south? It is sad that the narrow minded attitude helps only the urban rich to corner the lucrative jobs where proficiency in English is a must.
Thomas K. Mathai
Mysore, India
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
33
Many consider, english to be the language of the 'have not the havenots', but it has unified the whole of the globe. Just by implementing the english as subject in schools wont help the seekers in any way.Attention should be given to develop a proper learning structure where one should be exposed to the necessity of the language. Indianisation of the language sometimes post problems in efficient communication. English should be taught with its intricacies to get the real charm of the language. When it comes to speaking of the language Indians are equipped with their own regional accent, resulting in neutralising the effectiveness of the language.So most of the indian educated mass considers it as a curse bestowered on them. But some consider Indianisation of English as a new version of english,as Americanisation of English exists.
Udit
rourkela, India
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
32
English speaking is really a cause for those people those can consist from rural areas because at the time of elementary education the students don't know the importance of english and in rural areas largely students get the education from government schools so at the time of early before 5-10 years the english was started in sixth standard and the quality of faculty is also not good and the environment also not effective.When those students going in urban areas for getting the higher education they faced the allots of difficulty first in getting the admission and after that understanding the language.When they going for any competition thay get the good marks but in interview only due to the lack of english speaking they were not selected in higher educational institutes so due to that reason many student had commited sucide.In the future for getting the job it's will also create the problem because now a days in corporate world only those student get the job those communication skill is good.The many english speaking course institute were open and trend the student in speaking in the timeof two to three months but how far are really beneficial form that programme.
MAHESH KUMAR DADRWAL
JAIPUR, India
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
31
At the outset, I make it very clear that I have not called into question the message Mr.Perian posted first on this topic on English. He extended his comments there to some thing uncalled for, unnecessary and highly inflammatory that clearly indicated his mind set against a particular community in TN. Whatever steps that have been taken in Tamil Nadu for the progress of backward and downtrodden communities by the successive governments are justifiably correct. In this world there can be no difference and segregation among Humanity. Casteism might have suited the society thousand years ago but not now. But in the name of eradicating casteism, if attempts are made to eradicate a particular community by denying them their right to live as citizens of the country, how it would be justifiable? When it is a matter of self protection, each community takes proper care to protect it's existence and it's rights. We are seeing this today in Tamil nadu, Vanniars, Chettiars, Nadars, Thevars etc,etc. These communities have their own powerful leaders who can make or break matters as they desire. But the Brahmins, unlike these communities are not settled in one area. They are scattered throughout and there is no effective leader to look after their interests as other communites have. Because of this situation, they have become easy targets for others. In every discipline of life they are put to lot of hardship.There is no surety that their children even if they come out outstanding in their educational pursuits would get a job to make a decent living. Giving a hand to the backward people is a must but should not entail pushing down another community into oblivion. Tamil nadu should not loose the services of intelligentsia where ever they are for the development of the State. Before I conclude, I would like to say that this forum where people unknown to each other discuss and give their opinions on any topics. Would it not be better and civilized if our comments are to the points at issue without giving room to any acrimony?
T.Sathyamurthi
Folsom, United States
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
30
To Dr Seshadri, Sathyamurthys and Rajeshs,

I didn't say that Tamil Nadu is an excellent state. It is little better when compared to other states(generally north), where the so called 'national party' is very live and kicking. And about the lowering of standards in education due to affirmation policy; IIT's, highly touted as the best of all institutes in India, find no place or come only at bottom line in the world wide list. In these great IITs, reservation is limited only to SC/ST candidates (that too under pressure), due to the fear that it may dilute the so called 'merit'. But given the amount of money poured in, the achievement is very poor. They just produce technically qualified people as like any other state run engineering colleges. Even a simple discovery similar to that of a shaving blade didn't happen in these institutes. Only white elephants. Today students from Andhra and Rajasthan are easily entering inside these 'white elephants' in large numbers through coaching centres. This is the beauty. In the past fifty years, no Indian got Nobel prize for science and where comes the standard and merit?. You people will be at the top of the society, will enjoy all the benefits in education when compared to your counterparts at bottom and that too without allowing any reservation to them, will run away to foreign countries in case you feel that you can earn thousand dollars more per month by blaming the reservation policy and the system run by the so called corrupt, racist and parochial dravidian parties.
Any how, atleast by running away, you people do benefit to the society .
I read in news papers that SC/ST students were discriminated and ill treated in AIIMS and IITs.
And about the 'pseudo-secularness', are you talking about the secularness found in ' Periya Puranam' and in Chozha's action of destroying sinhala Buddhist cities. My good heavens.
perian
chennai, india
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
29
>> Mr. Perian makes a funny statement that Tamil nadu has progressed because of the 'running away' of people like me. In a way it is true but not in the malicious way he thinks.

I agree that Perian's "running away" comment was brazen and crude. But look at the message, not the tone. Probably you refer to running to the affirmative action that adversely affected you. But this is also the fact that it made society more inclusive and in the end it proved good to everyone. It contributed Tamil Nadu to progress especially when compared to northern Hindi states.
You can't call denial of opportunity due to affirmative action as injustice and malicious. Even in the country you chosed to live and work, vigorously pursue affirmative, lot more in sincerity than back home.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
28
Perian:
Casteist and psuedo-secular politicians are emphasizing the rural-urban divide for votebank benefits. As Prof Indiresan and Dr. Kalam have pointed out, the answer to eliminate the rural urban divide is NOT to deny the urban children some the benefits they have acquired over the decades, bringing overall national standards down, but to raise the rural facilities to urban standards, the PURA concept of providing urban features in rural areas. Jhunjhunwala and HCL are trying this. Politicians should strengthen their hands. Eventually, the whole of india should becomd urbanized and equalized techno-economically, something like the whole of kerala today or the northeast of the USA. All indians will fully benefits of the globalized new century.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
27
Mr. Perian makes a funny statement that Tamil nadu has progressed because of the 'running away' of people like me. In a way it is true but not in the malicious way he thinks. In the US, thousands of Indian Engineers are employed in big multi-nationals like Intel, Microsoft, AT&T. Many are fortunate to run their own companies. If these Multi nationals have put up Call Centers and Manufacturing Facilities in India providing millions of jobs that have transformed the Indian economy over the last two decades, the efforts put by the NRIs in top positions in these multinationals in that direction can not be denied or minimised. So is the case of NRIs living in other countries too. Though they are out of India, still they are patriotic enough to do their might to the country where they were born and brought up. Some might have come out of the country with disgust or disappointment but all the same, they have not forgotten their Mother land. Yet, here is a man who brazenly says that Tamil nadu has progressed because of our 'running away' from India! Not content with that acrimonious blabbering, he goes further to say that we are 'sworn enemies' of TN. Who is this man to declare that we are enemies? What credentials he has got to say that except that he, brain washed by local racist parties, is a die hard hater of a particular community?
T.Sathyamurthi
Folsom, United States
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
26
Perian: Before final retirement from teaching, I served a few yrs as prof-emeritus in a private engg college on the outskirts of chennai. In one ofv the meeting with their chairman, I advised them that the classes may be sectionalized in such a way that those with better background go to sections taught by mid-level faculty, while those with poor english and sc backgr can be put into special sections [mostly the BC and SC/STs, admitted for lower mark limits] to be handled by senior and experienced faculty, with extra classes as reqd, so that they can be taught not only the sc/tech, but also english simultaneously, to bring them on par with others by the end of the four-year course. The management did not agree to my suggestion, saying the politicians and caste-conscious parents may interpret it as caste-based discrimination in teaching and penalize the college. Educ objectiuves are compromized by casteist politicians, blocking the country's progress, unfortunately.

'Bhaarati' is another name for saraswati, mother india's kids, of all castes and creeds, are basically very brilliant, will shine if taught with care and concern; unfortunately, the agenda of the politicians is only vote-catching nothing more.

Education is a kind of industry where the product itself tries to improve its quality, for its own future good. The kids go for additional coaching classes for competitive exams, in that process the IIT-aspirants learn almost all that they may be taught in the first yr after admission. Those who lose entry in IIT shine bright in other colleges, bec of the preparation in coaching classes. The TN govt has abolished the common entrance test, thereby making coaching classes irrelevant, simply bec rural or disadvantaged-caste students could not afford coaching classes. The effect will be a general lowering of entrance-quality of TN students, compared to other states. The correct alternative should have been to encourage coaching classes in rural areas and scholarships for poor students in the coaching classes also.
Politicians go only for vote-seeking appeasements, not for what is really good for the people and the country.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
25
Perian to satyamoorthy:>> "You and Dr Seshadri are the sworn in enemies of TamilNadu, one of the most socially and educationally progressed/progressive states in India."

The progress has been mainly bec of proliferation of private schools, colleges in engg and mgmt, govt colleges only 10% now. The progress of tamil nadu would have been much more, beaten gujrat also, if children were not discouraged on english in govt schools. The production of unemployable graduates from these colleges would also have been much less.

>>" This progression happened only because of people like you running to U.S and elsewere sparing TN."

True, I went abroad in 1959, but came back to India in 1961, taught in IITM 1964-94. I have been suggesting to kulandaiswami and others that, instead of making tamil the medium of instruction in engg/mgmt institutes, with arbitrarily cooked up tamil-names for tech terms, teaching can be in English, with english textbooks, explanations in lectures in tamil also, along with parallel english classes for kids coming from low-english schools. I have also suggested that every student should write a tamil translation of his project report along with the english version. I think AnnaUniv is making them provide a tamil synopsis; could not get this done in IITM bec kids' mothertongues were numerous.

When I was in Germany, kids there were brushing up their english-competance by talking to us in english. Russians, chinese and japanese are fast learning english. Indians, especially the southerns, should not spoil the advantage they have, by following the advices of crooked politicians like Basu and Ramdoss. Instead of forcing tamil-medium on kids and disabling them in competition with others in the globalized tech-mgmt world, Ramdoss should ask his son, Dr. Anbumani to write a good book on 'Anatomy' in tamil, as parallel reference for tamil readers in schools and colleges in general. This is what profs and their assts in germany, russia do; learn from english texts and journals, be on the cutting edge of technology, but translate into mother tongue all important texts, for the benefit of kids in polytechnics and selfemployed engrs in the country. Indians in all states should also do the same. Ramdoss, understandably, feels rural backgr kids have disadv compared to city kids with better english. Answer is to provide parallel english-improvement evg schools for them, not to force tamil medium on all schools, to bring everybody to rockbottom standards, a typical leftist socialistic approach which has ruined bengal.

v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
24
Mr.Perian, you should be out of your mind and sense to say that the Tamil Nadu is making progress because people like me have run away from TN. I didn't run away but was forced to do because of the discrimination policies of the government in the services under caste considerations. My qualifications were no matter to them but only my caste! Well the USA gave me the job after seeing my professional qualifications only. They didn't check my religious faith or for that matter my caste etc for deciding my professional worthiness for the job. There are thousands of Tamilians like me from all castes working here. Not only here but also in all corners of the world. I don't know what you would have done had you faced a similar situation! According to you the TN is progressing because of their exit from that state! What a brilliant brain do you have! Tamil nad deserves people like you only to make rapid strides in all fields! I know what culture is prevailing in Tamil nad now. Bribery, cheating and deception etc are in the forefront. The progress in these fields is really splendid!
T.Sathyamurthi
Folsom, United States
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
23
>>>"Seshadri: Tamil people have full right to save their language and culture. People know what to do. You please don't interfere in tamil nadu affairs as you are an enemy of it." PERIAN, CHENNAI , INDIA .

I am not against tamil language and culture. Please understand. Tamil is my mother tongue, same for CVRaman. For me, tamil symbolizes mahaa-saraswati, just as sanskrit and all the indo-european languages of the world, with a scientific relationship between meaning to word, vaag and artha. I topped the class in tamil, in school, my tamil teacher very fond of me. I chose sans as sec language, for culture reason, would have studied both,if permitted. But, the 'divide and rule' brittish system said you study either sans or tamil, not both. But. I have mastered the kural, also learnt hindi, german and french.

To prove my respect fot tamil, I give below, the poems written by me in praise of tamil, both in sans and tamil:

Sans: zhakaaraalankritaa bhaashaa puraaNaa praakritaa paraa; tamo-naaSaat tam-eekshaNaat tattvagjnaa tamizhambikaa.

Tamil: tirumurugan agattiyarku aruLiya tiru-mozhiye, tamattiruLai izhakkavaikkum tamizh-annai oLiye (oliye);

agattiyakkam aRiyavaikkum agattiyar tam magaLe, ahambhaavam anaittagattri avanadi tandaruLe. .

As you may see, tamizh itself means 'eliminator of darkness, ignorance, inertia', tamas in sans, tamattai izhakka vaippadaal tamizh. tamaso maa jyotir gamaya, says the veda. Tamizh stands as parrot on the shoulder of madurai meenaakshi amman.

Tamil is an indestructible eternal language for the world, vyasa reborn to write kural, translated into most of world languages. Tamil kids can learn tech/mgmt in engl, but also learn tamil, their mother tongue and translate standard books into tamil for general reference of all tamilians.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
22
Mr Sathyamurthi,

You and Dr Seshadri are the sworn in enemies of TamilNadu, one of the most socially and educationally progressed/progressive states in India. This progression happened only because of people like you running to U.S and elsewere sparing TN. Politicians are bad every where, from artic region to antartica. But compared to people like you thay are far better. If things in TN had happened according to the desire and wishes of people like you and Dr Seshadri, it would have been another Bihar, U.P, Orissa and Rajasthan. For heaven sake, please spare TN, its people, language, culture and its politicians.
perian
chennai, india
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
21
"To me not knowing GOOD HINDI and being FLUENT in ENGLISH is like having such a TEETHLINE which can open ‘COLA BOTTLE’ but comes off while chewing ‘RABRI’."
Rajneesh Batra
New Delhi, India
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
20
Perian, "...You are an enemy of it"
Mr.Seshadri has exposed some TN Politicians who are saying one thing and doing the opposite when it comes to affect their own personal matters. How is it in saying the truth he has become an enemy of TN? Absolute nonsense and unwarranted comment.
T.Sathyamurthi
Folsom, United States
Mar 17, 2008 12:00 AM
19
Great story but why stop with just English? Much of what is taught in schools is rubbish and one can think of two reasons for it - the ridiculous examination system we have all geared not towards testing ones understanding but only to ensure children can easily score marks and secondly schools hardly attract people who understand subjects well and teach as well. Not just English but proficiency in other subjects also plays an important role in enhancing ones economic prospects. Will Outlook also do a story on the state of learning in schools?

R.S.Krishna
Social Science Coordinator
TVS Academy, Hosur, Tamil Nadu
sampath krishna
Bangalore, India
Mar 17, 2008 12:00 AM
18
Seshadri
Tamil people have full right to save their language and culture. People know what to do. You please don't interfere in tamil nadu affairs as you are an enemy of it.
perian
chennai, india
Mar 17, 2008 12:00 AM
17
I agree with what Seshadri says about ruining children' lives at the behest of monster politicians and mother tongue fanatics. The boy in question might have English learning problems. But many more die of maths. Higher learning is a hard taskmaster, a necessary evil.
pear
mumbai, India
Mar 17, 2008 12:00 AM
16
Learning any another language, there are some rules.Any language only you can learn by speaking,not by studying.[2]Learn any other languse you first murder that language.Indian learn English by reading,so could not speak that language.Here in India student get rear opportunity speaking in English.
Same difficulty arisE in writing in English.Our education is based on memery not base in expressing the idea.
Those who are fourtunet born in higher family there from childhood they speak and write English, they only do some progress, but they are very very rear.Lokmany Tilak wrote long long ago that he spend his valiuble life to learn English to acquire knowledge,English is very hardest language to learn if all knowledge is in my mothertoung so much my time I saved
Ramesh Raghuvanshi
pune, India
Mar 17, 2008 12:00 AM
15
The real culprits who have ruined the professional prospects of the current young generation in india are the politicians in the govts of the socalled linguistic states, another bad result from Gandhiji forming different congress committees for different languages, to facilitate freedom struggle against the brittish. Soon after independance, C.Subramaniam suggested the use of the common roman script for all indian languages. It would have unified the country, bec words in indian languages have close phonetic similarities in words for same objects and ideas, only the scripts vary widely, creating difficulties in communication. Unfortunately, language-proud state-level politicians shouted him down.

Tagore wrote geetanjali in english also along with bengali version, got noble prize. CVRaman started learning english at age 3, graduated at 13, got noble prize before middle age. An avanashilingam in tamil nad as minister for education, soon after independance, ruled that english alphabets be taught only from class VI; a whole generation of tamil youngsters lost their competitiveness in the national and world enterprises. Jyoti Basu, himself and kids well educated in England, ruined bengal's educ for 3 decades, the mad marxists are still worshipping this monster!.

Even today, there is a politician, dad of union health minister, PMK's Ramadoss, [his own kids, grandkids english-educated and well off]; he is insisting that all schools in tamil nadu should be forced to teach science and tech also only in Tamil; these politicians need ignorant votebanks for their dynastic families alone to rule in perpetuity. Sufferiung students and parents should start a movement against such fools and crooks.

India's educational systems have been ruined by political interference. Parents' and teachers' associations should completely take over educational decisions, govts should give grants and keep off; keep the vile politicians far from the sacred sphere of education, college functions or univ convocations. Do not allow them to mesmerize people on mother-tongue worship.

I was just watching a tv program titled devil's advocate, interviewing a socalled leftist leader.
The interviewer looked quite human, but the 'leftist' politician looked and talked like devil himself!, I was forced to turn off! These people want a third front under their lead, for taking the country to cultural and economic suicide, both personally like the Jaipur boy in Noida, and nationally, perhaps. God save India from these political devils!
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Mar 17, 2008 12:00 AM
14
English is no more the language of the Britishers, it is an international language. Majority of Indians speak better and correct English than most of the Bristishers and Americans. At least we donot say,'long time no see'
sanaulla sharief
new york, United States
Mar 17, 2008 12:00 AM
13
>> A person who knows only Hindi will think himself as a greater Indian, his religion and culture as the best in the world. A 'frog in well' mentality.

The recent craving of English by north Indians show that they have come a long way. They had fierce opposition for English and often equated English with colonial influence and Hindi with nationalism. The newfound appreciation of English by Hindi states was unthinkable a decade ago. Clearly they can see light now, that English is window to the world, jobs and opportunities.

Given the state of primary education, I can understand difficulties in learning English and also disadvantage they suffer compared to who went to English medium schools.
But nobody says path to enlightment is easy.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Mar 16, 2008 12:00 AM
12
If "COLOR" can be correct in American English, why can't "VANELA" be correct North Indian English and "BHANEELA" Bengali English?
Raj
Chicago, United States
Mar 16, 2008 12:00 AM
11
>>>Considering English knowledge alone will be appropriate for calculating literacy rate. In that sense, India is a big illiterate country.

A bit of an over statement.
jaleel
luknow, India
Mar 16, 2008 12:00 AM
10
>>>Considering English knowledge alone will be appropriate for calculating literacy rate. In that sense, India is a big illiterate country.

A bit of on over statement.
jaleel
luknow, India
Mar 16, 2008 12:00 AM
9
A person who knows only Tamil language will think Tamil as the only greatest language in the world, Tamil Nadu as the only cultured place on the earth. A person who knows only Hindi will think himself as a greater Indian, his religion and culture as the best in the world. A 'frog in well' mentality.(Same with chinese also, but they are better) Only English can serve as a window to the outer world for Indians who have a strong self righteous attitude evolved from centuries old isolation and superstitious beliefs. So India's literacy rate calculation should not be based upon knowledge (read and write)of mother tongue alone. Considering English knowledge alone will be appropriate for calculating literacy rate. In that sense, India is a big illiterate country.
perian
chennai, india
Mar 16, 2008 12:00 AM
8
Talking of English, here is a sample of an email from, guess who, Outlook!

In response to my request that the damaged diary sent by them be replaced, I get a resonse from their Subscriptions Manager as follows:

Dear Sir.

Regret for inconvenience caused.

Kindly sent back the same so that we can arranged for replacement.

Parvati Bhardwaj

Pankaj Gupta
Bangalore, India
Mar 16, 2008 12:00 AM
7
English has evolved in to a world language and it is the most influential language, whether one likes or not. In Research area, especially in science and technology, more than 75% of articles comes only in English. It is also the language which unites whole India together with Indian railways and Cricket. Hindi can never be an alternative to English at any point of time and circumstance. Associating English language with British colonialism should be done away as british have left India long before. Moreover,In Indian context, a person can be considered as a truely learned one, only if he/she has sufficient proficiency in English. Knowledge of regional languages including Hindi, however good, without English, will encourage only ethnocentric and region centric mentality. In India, knowledge of English is the true literacy. South Indians especially Tamils prefer British English for historical reasons.
perian
chennai, india
Mar 16, 2008 12:00 AM
6
In India, it is the linguistic chauvinism that is rearing it's ugly head because, all regional leaders, most of them heading the state governments do not know English much. True. we should develop our speaking languages but should not be too much emotional. Language should be considered more as a means of communication and to day, it is the English that rules the world. when we are competing with other countries, it is the universal language that will help us in that matter. It is a good augury that in the recent years, the people in India have understood the importance of English and are paying attention to it.
T.Sathyamurthi
Folsom, United States
Mar 15, 2008 12:00 AM
5
We are not in the league of China, Japan, Russia. They are fiercely independent nations. We were humiliated by foreign invaders for 800 years. We got the mentality of the slaves. It is difficult to get rid of all these.
There are so many languages , so much diversity in India that we have to go for English. But our poor do not have access to English. The "elite" of Indian society digested English long back. Nehru Dynasty, Gandhi and many stalwarts of Indian politics were and are English educated. They lecture the starving millions to respect and continue with their mother tongue.
But the poor should also try to digest English. English is now a necessity to get placement in private companies. We should not forget our mother tongue, like the elite class does. But we have to learn English. It is a MUST MUST.
jaleel
luknow, India
Mar 15, 2008 12:00 AM
4
I meant Indians in general aspire for things American, because America has proved to be the best so far. Does not in any way mean some of it's cultural products, like the american food, is good; which though is a minor aspect.
chaitanya
chennai, India
Mar 15, 2008 12:00 AM
3
Indian English is increasingly in tune with American English. Indians though living in India, aspire for American technology, food, movies, consumer goods because it is according to many, and rightly so, has been the "best" nation for the previous many decades in terms of breaking barriers, achieving new frontiers, great leap in humane values, and importantly power. There is nothing wrong in learning from the best around and Indians are doing the right thing as India are known to be adjustable, quicker than others. This might remain so for another 2-3 decades, by when India will really arrive in an all-round manner, which is the reason Indians also need to promote their own languages, culture, to preserve innate character, and also for the world to better understand Indian values. Indian government should be forthcoming in promoting chairs of various Indian languages in major universities across the globe, and others relating to study of various aspects that has to do with Indian.

British English is a basket case of History. It sounds more Tribal, and very less global.
chaitanya
chennai, India
Mar 15, 2008 12:00 AM
2
English like any other language cannot be 'taught'. It is something that is picked up over years. An average individual who has been going about his daily life using a vernacular language , will find it extremely difficult to start learning in English at an advanced age. There are people, who have worked hard, and despite studying in vernacular mediums have been able to master subjects taught in English and have proven to be successful. These people are too few and far inbetween to choose. We cannot teach English at the expense of our native languages. True you need to know English to survive in a global market place. But, we must encourage learning English at a very elementary level with the same zest as encouraging learning a vernacular language. The english evaluation system at the state level is HORRENDOUS to say the least. Picture this: An answer to a question is Cat Eats the Rat. Unfortunately, our student mixes up the positions and says Rat Eats the Cat. Now the exam evaluator still gives him half the marks because all the words are there!!!!. The english taught at the ICSE and CBSE board levels are pretty standatd but again they are taught in a terrible fashion. Grammar is taught like you have to mug up a few rules to write in English. They dont realize that these rules are the fundamentals to writing in English. THEY CANNOT BE CRAMMED. They have to be tested in Essays and Compositions. You cannot have a seprate exam that evaluates GRAMMAR! Because when that happens, the students tend to separate grammar from literature and thats not correct. They go hand in hand! English learning institutes arent the answer. They are just ways to make money. its a terrible exploitation of people.
vijay shankar
Bangalore, India
Mar 15, 2008 12:00 AM
1
Good news: The British Council to train 7.5 lakh English teachers...
Bad News: The British Library closed its doors on 29 February 2008 - and shall be downing its shutters permanently on 31 March 2008! (Despite a wide cross-section of residents of Bhopal protesting against its closure)..
So what you give with one hand take away with the other?
Harsh Rai Puri
Bhopal, India
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