Impressions
Let Them Eat Cake
When people ask me about my impressions of India after returning from the US following twelve long years spent living abroad, although generally positive, time and again I am reminded of these four words
Although, as it turns out, Marie Antoinette's famous saying was actually a rumour perpetuated by the revolutionaries to feed the animosity that French peasants had for their rulers, these four words best epitomize the callous indifference of those in any position of wealth or power (the haves) towards their fellow citizens who cannot afford bread, let alone munch on cake (the have nots). And, when people ask me about my impressions of India after returning from the US following twelve long years spent living abroad, although generally positive, time and again I am reminded of these four words. Presumably, being able to afford a nice apartment in a secure, gated complex with a gym and a swimming pool, I'm a "have" and a chill runs down my spine imagining if someday my head will roll off the sharp blade of a guillotine.

But India is prospering, they tell me. Double-digit growth. Low cost tech capital of the world. Business process outsourcing leader. Largest democracy. Multi-ethnic vibrant society. Strong secular credentials. Superb banking and financial institutions. Rising rupee. IT parks. Biotech boom. Special Economic Zones…. The list is endless, they reassure me.

It warms my heart and a thrill runs down my spine whenever I revise this list. I want to believe in it. I want to raise my hands and congratulate my billion plus brothers and sisters that they're part of a miracle. But congratulating them would be congratulating… I, me, myself. Congratulating the "haves" who've always had. They just have more now. More often than not, when I've turned to congratulate a "have-not" I've had to withdraw my hand and hang my head in shame, praying he'll ignore the irony of my outstretched hand and forget both--the incident as well as the part about being in the middle of economic betterment. Their lives are improving rapidly, aren't they?

One incident occurred when we bought a washing machine and refrigerator from a swanky electronics store in a beautiful mall in the heart of the city. When I had left India, I didn't know what a mall was. Now, standing in the middle of a three storied architectural marvel of glass and steel, as I admired the polished floors, the smooth escalators, the capsule elevators and the gleaming storefronts, I felt confident; India was on the rise. Inside the store my wife an I were treated like royalty, attended to by a flock of smartly dressed young men and women, serving us tea and coffee liberally, answering our questions with certainty and reassuring us that delivery would be free of cost and within 48hours. And lo and behold, within 48 hours there was a telephone call from the security gate in the apartment complex to inform me that some men had come to deliver our washing machine and the 260-litre refrigerator.

I opened the front door slightly and waited. And waited. Five minutes rolled into ten and then into twenty. I peeked outside a couple of times to ensure that the elevators up to our apartment on the sixth floor were working. They were… and when no one showed up to deliver anything after forty-five minutes had flown by, a vein of irritation began to buzz in my head.

Then there was a light knock on the door and a young man, younger and thinner than me, stood outside, panting, wondering if he had the right address to deliver two appliances. On that hot, humid July afternoon, he stood sweating like he had just stepped out of a shower. His perspiration made his tawdry clothes stick to his body as though they were painted on him, and the first thing he asked me after I confirmed that he indeed had the right address was whether he could have a glass of water for himself and his friend, still struggling up the stairs, lugging the washing machine on his back.

I was shocked. Why hadn't he used the elevator, I asked him.

The security guards downstairs wouldn't allow it, he informed me matter-of-factly, as though the error was in his unreasonable request not in the guard's denial.

I was flabbergasted. Using the elevator to ferry a couple of heavy objects up six floors was a privilege… not a right? What if we had lived on the thirteenth floor? What if we had bought a 300-liter refrigerator?

Anger welled up inside me and I felt tears of outrage sting my eyes. I marched down to the security office and demanded an explanation from the first person I met. The guard informed me that he had simply followed the estate manager's rules.

Rules? There was a rule saying that people couldn't transport heavy appliances on elevators? I'd forgive a rule insisting that heavy object may only be transported on an elevator as the product of a bureaucratic mind with too much idle time on their hands.

Yes, the guard informed me with a serious face, there were rules for everything. He justified his concern by stating that heavy objects like appliances tend to have sharp edges that could scratch the paint or dent the elevator walls.

I had to shake my head to dispel any doubts that I wasn't in the midst of a strange dream or trapped by some Seinfeldian fantasy in "bizarro" land. Meanwhile, the estate manager showed up, and, after a quick exchange of conspiratorial whispers, was brought up to speed on the situation by the guard.

What if the man had twisted his ankle while hauling up the heavy luggage or worse, broken his leg, I asked the big, burly estate manager. The man's response was a casual shrug. By now I had begun absorbing shock well. What if the refrigerator had fallen on him and crushed him, I asked. The estate manager frowned, missed my point completely and informed me that the company would surely replace the damaged goods to my apartment free of cost. This is the new India, he smiled and informed me, where customer is king.  The deliveryman, damn it! Don't worry, he reassured me, the company would find ten more people like him to complete the job.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

I argued with the man, trying to educate him on the basics of humanity, humility and human rights. But it was just not done, he informed me. Why? I asked, and offered to take responsibility for any dents and scratches that might disfigure the elevators. My proposal wouldn't influence the man. Why? I pestered him… Why? After a few moments of dodging my pointed questions he said that other tenants of this upscale apartment complex might take offence to sharing elevators with sweaty delivery boys and smelly milkmen.

And that's when visions of murderous crowds with hatchets and spears baying for bourgeois blood begin to fill my head.

Upstairs, my wife was feeling equally sorry for the deliverymen. When I returned, I found them sitting under the fan in one corner of our living room, munching on something. The men were hungry, my wife informed me, and, since we didn't have any bread, she had given them some left over cake.


Anirban Bose's debut novel Bombay Rains, Bombay Girls is due out in May.

 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Mar 29, 2008 12:00 AM
55
Educate him, MR. VARUN SHEKHAR. Educate, MR. ARUL FRANCIS, as I have been educating you. I hope MR. ARUL FANCIS is more amenable to education than you are.

Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 29, 2008 12:00 AM
54
Arul Francus, one notices that you never have anything really nice to say about India. You are always finding fault, observing inadequacies, criticizing. Do you see anything or anyone good in the country, at all?
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Mar 23, 2008 12:00 AM
53
Perhaps such "rules" were framed for ecological reasons - people wouldn't buy such 'heavy' stuff like fridges, stoves, TVs, beds, sofas, tables, mattresses etc., which depletes the natural resource base and fill up the environment with nasty gases and other nasty by-products in their production.
What these 'rules' say is for you to sleep on the floor, eat off the floor, read a book, eat fresh fruits and vegetables (no cooking required) and better yet, live in a shack like the overwhelming majority of the masses - and no elevator required. Now isn't that better for the environment?
Bodh
Springfield, United States
Mar 22, 2008 12:00 AM
52
my goodness, i had no idea it was this brutal. and this
recent.

books.google.com/books?id=HfNRO-Lts
N4C&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=viduthalai+chiruthaigal&
source=web&ots=_waqhzQ7eU&sig=LKHRQkTk44RGsXlVp5P7
iQkjE1Q&hl=en#PPA111,M1
Arul Francis
Clayton, California
Mar 21, 2008 12:00 AM
51
Nicely written article. Can relate to this as the same exists in various forms. I had a similar experience outside India sans the security guard and Estate Manager. A couple of guys were delivering a two heavy mattresses - lighter objects compared to your scenario but still quite heavy. They missed the fact that a 3 storied apartment could have a elevator and ended up climbing the stairs and delivering manually. The heat of July did take a toll and he sweat profusely. I was less generous than your wife as I had no cake but did give some money to the guys.
In any case be prepared for more given that you have made the leap. I will try and join you some day or atleast try to meet you when in Kolkata.

Shubho - SXD 85 - Need I say more?
shubho
Ranchi, India
Mar 21, 2008 12:00 AM
50
"Then why the hell is India so keen to have a similar relationship with the U. S. A.?. Why do you want to be grabbed by the "gonads"?"

SOUR GRAPES!! will you get only those in life, Khujli chahca? How you are PEA-GREEN with JEALOUSY that USA, the country that feeds you with her leftover crumbs, is keen to be a partner to India.

"grabbed by the "gonads"?"
Tsk tsk!! such language!! if u have such a dirty mind in this age, it must be a stinky one when u were young!! Sharam karo chacha!!
Kiran Bagachi
mumbai, India
Mar 21, 2008 12:00 AM
49
There was this massive dalit organizing in the late 1990s after the murugesan murder. google on "dalit murugesan". it brought dalits into political power in a big way. the sad part is that the dravidian movement didnt do a thing to help the dalits in tamilnadu.

"This high literacy level among Tamil Dalits is not due to the Dravidian movement," says Ravi Kumar. (narayanan, hindustan times, 5/24/2007)

the strange thing is that most of the violence is committed on the dalits and not by them and yet acts like TADA and POTA are used against them (i googled "TADA periyasami" and "thirumavalavan POTA")

p 109 "it is the threatened forces of caste dominance and privilege that are more prone to violent .. than Dalit movements"

from: "Untouchable Citizens" by Gorringe
2005

books.google.com/books?id=IFTySnKR2VEC


p 130 "Madurai .. we cant wear shoes in the village .. if we sit down [bench at the bus stop] they beat us"
Arul Francis
Clayton, California
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
48
Arun,

>> And the final defence is "hamari sabhayata, hamari sanskriti, hamari parampara"

It is good to see the sensible dialogue between you and Narayanan.

Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
47
Varun,

>> Pakistan was born out of feelings like "Islam in danger.

Muslim League's top leadership was secular. The religious Darul Ulam on the other hand was against partition.

>> Pakistan does not have any elevated, enlightened philosophy of its own.

Most countries don't. Most countries are just homes for their people, not philosophy proponents. Pakistan can be criticized for many things without one having to adopt your elevated, enlightened, complex, multi-faceted, nuanced, and intelligent stance.

>>
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
46
A relationship can not be any of the things that you say it is in which you are warned or told to take it or leave it or where you can not even remove a comma in the Agreement or where Pranab Da pleads for deliverence as he is caught between a rock and a hard place, MR. VARUN SHEKHAR?.



Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
45
Then why the hell is India so keen to have a similar relationship with the U. S. A.?. Why do you want to be grabbed by the "gonads". MR. SHEKHAR.

Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
44
Pakistan was born out of feelings like "Islam in danger, Moslems in danger of being swamped". Pakistan does not have any elevated, enlightened philosophy of its own; being anti-India and anti-Hindu is its philosophy. Pakistan has a had a pathetic, military oriented, strategic,one-dimensional relationship with the US all these years; it cannot understand anything else, so it denigrates the complex, multi-faceted, nuanced, intelligent relationship India possesses with the US.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
43
That's simplistic and sweeping to say that all so called "lower caste Hindus" ( 'lower' is a pejorative word, so it should be placed in quotes) would have covnverted to Christianity or Islam, except for the fact of reservations. Some of them might have, many would have remained Hindus for their own reasons, others wold have joined reformist movements within Hinduism, still more would have found Buddhism attractive; a few might have rejected formal religion altogether. Don't try to be a cocksure know-it-all.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
42
Narayanan ... "My conclusion is that nobody discriminates and ill-treats Indians as much as Indians themselves."

BTW, Babar supposedly expressed similar sentiments at first sight.

Like so many dualities of India, we can also be one of the nicest people in treating others with respect, courtesy, consideration and politeness. Sometimes to the point of servility.

My understanding is that we do this where some kind of "relationship" is there within a heirarchy framework which defines "relationship" for us. Our framework is that we place people in a network of heirarchy (or you can think of as many concentric circles) .... family, extended family, caste, elder, younger, friend, color, social status, economic status, power status. Our quota of being respectful, courteous, polite and considerate runs out within this very complex network of heirarchies such that very little is left for people we place "below" us in this networked heirarchy or those just human like us randomly on the street we may encounter.

Anyways, in this framework, the developed countries (and what we consider the group of people that made it developed, I guess we would consider primarily "whites") would be placed higher than most, so will be treated with niceness, deference, even servility. The "others" in those developed countries, who might be lower in this framework of ours, won't respond well to our normal attitude to those "lower" - so we can't. So that would leave all this happening between desis, as both parties would operate from the same framework and accept behaviour resulting from that as "norm".

One thought I always had is that "if we ourselves treat our fellow citizens badly, it would be reasonable to expect others to treat all of us badly" ... so if the rest of the world gangs up on us and really mistreats us, we might realize the folly of our ways and change but it doesn't seem practical now that, if not for liking us, for economic considerations others will be nice to us. And strangely whatever we might do to each other, if someone else ("a foreigner") mistreats us (in real terms or perception) we rise collectively, all hot, hurt and prickly - national pride or some such thing.

And the final defence is "hamari sabhayata, hamari sanskriti, hamari parampara" (I love that sequence captured so well in Swades).
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
41
"...their morning Idlis and evening Dossas and their morning Purees and their evening Palak Paneers?"

Tsk tsk!! Khuji chacha!! SOUR GRAPES again!! You dont get enough idli dosa palak paneer to eat there? Do you get enough to eat there at all?? Yahan se kuch bheju? I hate to see you drool over almost everything Indian!! Our food, our babes, our tourism industry, out GDP, our democracy, our litercy rate...now go fish the internet to prove me wrong. Choo!!!
Kiran Bagachi
mumbai, India
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
40
“Denying insecurity is just another manifestation of Hindu penchant for Denial.”
Let us figure out our house Khujli chacha, you worry about your ass.

BTW, you still haven’t answered my question. What pervert pleasure you get out of this Spit-on-your-mom activity? Is this pathology in you hereditary or acquired? When did it start manifesting? At which age? What were the initial symptoms? Please give me the details and I may be able to help you. You may be cured. Though I may not be able to do anything about your retardation.
Kiran Bagachi
mumbai, India
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
39
"However, Hindus seem to be insecure to the point of paranoia. They seem to see hordes of Muslims rising out of their morning Idlis and evening Dossas and their morning Purees and their evening Palak Paneers"


Not as much as Muslims. Ask any common Muslim in Pakistan. He would say “Islam is in danger” because of Iraq,Iran,Kasmir, Afganistan,and Pakistan. And don’t forget the fact that Muslims from 97% Pakistan.
sreejith
bangalore, india
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
38
Hinduism may not be insecure. However, Hindus seem to be insecure to the point of paranoia. They seem to see hordes of Muslims rising out of their morning Idlis and evening Dossas and their morning Purees and their evening Palak Paneers

With every cup of tea and cofee they imbibe, they see Muslims rising with the smoke.

I have come to this conclusion through my almost Six Years in this Forum.

Denying insecurity is just another manifestation of Hindu penchant for Denial.

Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
37
Khujli chacha
“Hindus to begin converting others to Hinduism, MR. VINOD, in order that there is a parity developed between the World's Major Religions. Otherwise, I am afraid Hinduism will suffer from the Perils of Diminishing Numbers over this Millennium.”

You don’t lose your sleep over about Hinduism, Khujli chahca. You worry about your own itch, which is getting worst by the day, making you behave like an itchy monkey. Hinduism has survived many assaults and now that many apostates and cowards, who trace their ancestry to Kashmiri Brahmins have left Hinduism, all is well here, I assure you. No go back to smoking whatever you are smoking and enjoy your ‘paradise’ and its 72 virgins. Hinduism is not such an insecure religion that it needs to convince people that it only holds the license to issue passports to heaven.
Kiran Bagachi
mumbai, India
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
36
Khuji chacha...

“Did the guilt of leaving Sindh catalyse Mr. Lal Kishan Advani in to saying......”

Advani’s family was forced out of Sindh, like all Hindus who had to choose between life and motherland. The ones that chose life, came to India. Others were killed or are still living there as second-rate citizens.

‘Let me, for the record, tell you how and why we reached Karachi…”
Okay, so in your case it was the lure of money and comfort.

“I do not spit out. I cut and paste.”
I did not say you ‘spit out’, I said you ‘spit’ at your motherland. Learn finer nuances of English language, for God’s sake.

And you DO spit! Every morning you greedily scan all newspapers and internet to fish out anti-India stuff. Then, you gleefully cut-paste it here. I call it akin to spitting on one’s own mother every day; nothing else. Had you stayed in India a little longer, you could’ve imbibed the good Indian values. One of them is giving a status higher than heaven to mother and motherland (Janani janmabhumishch swargaadapi gariyasi). You left India too soon.

Just imagine, your may have a few bad qualities too but if your son SPITS at you, EVERYDAY, GLEEFULLY, HAPPILY, and gets pleasure out of it, I’ll call him SICK!!! And so will YOU!!

You don’t have to show your loyalty to your adopted country by spitting at the country of your birth. But if in Pakistan, that’s the default requirement, I PITY you!! Iss umar mein aapko zinda rahne ke liye kya nahi karna pad raha.
Kiran Bagachi
mumbai, India
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
35
Narayanan,

>> India may be a great developing country with a great GDP, IT hub, etc., but all said and done, Indians have to learn a lot about honesty, courtesy, politeness, consideration, equality, and professionalism from countries and cultures that have done better than us several years ago ...

You can say that again!
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
34
NEW DELHI: Facing a stringent attack from Opposition members in the Rajya Sabha, the government on Wednesday said it could “neither mend nor end” the India-U.S. nuclear agreement as it was in dialogue at the International Atomic Energy Agency .

Responding to a short duration discussion on foreign-policy related developments, Union External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee initially did not refer to the deal as, he said, there was nothing to report.

However, when the Opposition and Left members insisted that he state the government’s position, Mr. Mukherjee said, “Leader of Opposition Jaswant Singh said we should either mend it or end it, but we are at a stage that neither it can be ended nor it can be mended because we are in dialogue,” he said.

Noting that there was some advancement in talks on the India-specific safeguards agreement at the IAEA, the Minister said, “whenever the procedure is over, if it is over,” the government will come to Parliament.

Dismissing the charge that Parliament was not being taken into confidence, Mr. Mukherjee said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had assured members that whenever any stage (of negotiation) was completed, the government would share it. “[The UPA-Left Coordination Committee] is an internal arrangement. We have to carry their conviction and share some information with them.”

‘Continuity’


Refuting the charge of the government “diluting” India’s foreign policy, Mr. Mukherjee asserted that there was “continuity” and India was not in isolation. There were no basic changes but only certain adjustments and reallocation of priorities in the context of the changing world. For instance, when the Non-Aligned Movement was formed, there was no World Trade Organisation. When such changes take place, they were bound to be reflected in the foreign policy he said.

On the differences of perception with China on Arunachal Pradesh, he said: “We have representatives of Arunachal Pradesh in Parliament. When the Prime Minister visits the State and declares a package, it is consistent with our policies. There are no inherent differences in approach and it would be India’s endeavour to convert the divergences into
convergences.”

----------------------------
------------------------

This is how you are got by the "gonads"--in denial and pain, MR. ARVIND.

MR. ARUN MAHESHWARI: Just another "Cut And Paste", with a small aside to instil focus.







Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
33
I have lived and traveled to several developed countries ... My conclusion is that nobody discriminates and ill-treats Indians as much as Indians themselves.

India may be a great developing country with a great GDP, IT hub, etc., but all said and done, Indians have to learn a lot about honesty, courtesy, politeness, consideration, equality, and professionalism from countries and cultures that have done better than us several years ago ...
Narayanan
Bangalore, India
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
32
If at all, MR. ARUN MAHESHWARI, these are the imaginations and desires of innumerable Analysts whose work I just "Cut And Paste".

When I do reflect my own thinking is when I hit back against those who deride and denigrate me.

Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
31
How about this - we value human life a little less (than what it ought to be) simply because we have too many people for a job like a deliveryman's.

Of course, to go with it we are also conditioned with a peculiar (perhaps from a perverted reading of our culture) belief system that makes us put up with all kinds of nonsense.
photonman1
Hyderabad, India
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
30
Joseph ... "Not just interesting, MR. KIRAN BAGACHI, but also versatile ...".

You forgot ... and incorrigbly full of it. I suppose as a fellow South Asian, at your age we should let you live your imaginations and desires :-).

Gajanan .... "Physical work is looked down in India right from time immemorial."

It has a direct causal relationship with the Brahminical construct of society and caste ... should be no surprise that the system of caste results in much of what we see today in our attitudes.
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
29
The main reason for all this is Indians give very little importance to physical work. A labourer in West is paid well compared to his Indian counterpart, For example in many Western countries the difference between pay for the laborer and the boss , is not much except in higher echelons of bureaucracy. Physical work is looked down in India right from time immemorial. Infact, I worked in a multinational R&D. Even there to do experimenatl work was considered menial. Indians if they give equal importance to physical wotk as well as brain work, then you will not have the guy sweating as mentioned.
gajanan
Sydney, Australia
Mar 20, 2008 12:00 AM
28
Such insensitivity to fellow indians/humans make my blood boil - how cruel! Shame on our mindset and thick skins!
Ravi Chimakurthy
Natick, USA
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
27
India's Goa cracks down on nightlife after teen murder by Lita Barretto
56 minutes ago



Police in India's resort state of Goa, where a British teen was murdered last month, have begun shutting down beach parties and bars at midnight, officials said on Wednesday.

Officials ordered the crackdown on Goa's party culture after police said 15-year-old Scarlett Keeling was raped and left for dead by two men after she consumed a cocktail of illegal drugs at a beach cafe where she was hanging out late into the night.

Goan police this month arrested Samson D'Souza, 29, a bartender at the cafe, and alleged drug dealer Placido Carvalho for Keeling's murder.

"We are not allowing anything beyond midnight. These are strict orders to the police," Goa state official J.P. Singh told AFP Wednesday.

Special police teams were roaming the beaches this week to catch bar owners violating the ban and to round up suspicious characters.

About 100 people have been detained so far, officials said.

Bar owners complained about the new restrictions, saying they would tarnish Goa's image as a free-wheeling oasis in straitlaced India, but said they would comply.

"This will affect our business but we have no option," said Alovino Gomes, who runs a cafe on the popular Calangute beach that is popular with foreigners, who flock to Goa for beach dance parties that run until dawn.

"We don't entertain drugs here. The business we do is sober," added Gomes, pointing to a sign in his establishment that reads "No Drugs please!"

Shops with licences to serve liquor beyond midnight are also being ordered to close early.

The Lui cafe, the bar where Keeling was last seen a few hours before her bruised body was found on Goa's Anjuna beach on February 18, has been shut down, officials
confirmed.

--------------------------------
--------------------

TATHASTU.


BR>
Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
26
I fully agree that there's a certain callousness in our behavior towards our less fortunate fellow citizens. Note that this is a behavioral trait - it even existed during our socialist glory days.

Once we accept that as a fact (albeit unfortunate), what Bose doesn't quite realize are the real opportunities created by 'capitalist' economic growth. Think of the number jobs created by the building of the mall, for instance.

It's too early (or too naive?) to think that economic growth is going to change our behavior.
photonman1
Hyderabad, India
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
25
Joseph ... "... The "Market Share" is falling, ..."

Depends - not if you go by the market cap/value (and it's growth) of the many many Hindu gurus :-)
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
24
I agree. The "Market Share" is falling, MR. ARUN MAHESHWARI.



Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
23
Not just interesting, MR. KIRAN BAGACHI, but also versatile,

Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
22
You are an interesting character, khujli chacha. I sometimes wonder what makes you hate india so much. You were born here. Why did you leave the country of your birth? You must be a young boy then but your family must’ve given some reason for it. You were a south Indian Christian. Am sure nobody forced you to go. I don’t see any reason why you chose to go to Pakistan. Were you lured there with false promises? Or you just imagined that some of those 72 virgins will come your way? Why? Why? Why khujli chacha, did you betray your motherland?

Tell us honestly, do you ever regret going there? Did you ever tried to come back? Is the guilt of leaving your motherland eating you? Is that why you have turned this guilt into hate? So much so that in your twilight years, you spend your time, instead of prayers, spitting, day in and day out, at your matrubhumi?
Kiran Bagachi
mumbai, India
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
21
Joseph .... ".... then be prepared to diminish in a Millenium to the status of Parsee and Jews."

If it is a millenium .... I will take my chances ... I am trying to figure out how many rebirths will it be for me :-) BTW, many many milleniums have passed, and so far the "hindu" has survived (and may be even flourishing now - inspite of the fear psychosis of the Hindutva brigade of an imminent takeover), so the odds are still in it's favour to outlast many who might come and go.

Or in the famous words of Capt. Kirk, by then I will have the luxury of saying "beam me up Scooty there is no intelligent life down here" and not deal with the non-hindu world :-)
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
20
MR. ARUN MAHESHWARI, then be prepared to diminish in a Millenium to the status of Parsee and Jews. It is your call.

About practice and precept. Hindu Indians tend to judge other Religions, especially Islam, through the behaviour of a few.



Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
19
Joseph .... "Do comment about my suggestion to MR. VINOD, that Hinduism should enter the "Conversion Business". Thank You."

Mine is more a principle - play to ones strengths and not try to become someone else. So with that argument it doesn't make sense to me. Personally, for me it is better to become a "better whoever you are" rather than a "someone else (in the hope that it is better)". I also oppose conversions because the line between voluntarily and forced is to fine in the first place. And finally, I do think Religion just needs to be in the private domain.

I don't think very highly of most religions because I don't look at what the theory says but how it is played out in practice. I say more on Hinduism, because I know a little more of it and honestly don't care about the others .... I am assuming whoever cares will worry about them. As far as I am concerned Comparative Religion is a slippery slope and uninteresting for me as a topic.

BTW, your support of some of us on this forum is a double edged sword :-)

Arul .... "and my problem a lot of the books and articles and history written about the oppressed is that they are written by the oppressor."

I agree. Unlike in the US where a lot of "black" authors wrote and dealt with the issue of slavery and race AND were read by a cross section of society there isn't much about our own brand of "racism". To be honest, I understood much more about the insidious nature of our "discrimination systems" from reading Richard Wright (Native Son), Ellison (Invisible Man), A "white" author who wrote "Black like me" and a White South African author (forget his name). Our challenge is that the prevalent theme is "it was nice system meant to structure society, it turned bad later but anyways it is now illegal so if we just ignore it, it will go away". I just don't think it works that way.
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
18
Anirban Bose, you have seriously made my day with your piece, I do believe it is only when we evolve to being a more humane and ensitive nation we would have truely achieved something. Lack of concern for children, the environment and a whole other bunch of things really doesnt convince anyone of the so called progress, my question is in hat direction?
Bab
Auckland, NZ
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
17
this writer has been away for 12 years. partly during that time. 1990-2004, the amount of FDI pumped into india has gone up by 20 times [federal reserve bank in dallas website].

reading now about the US govt stepping into rescue failing investment banks (those poor starving investment bankers!) made me wonder how we will fare when our ever-expanding bubble finally bursts and all our investment banks start imploding.

i was reading about exports of food during famines. particularly the big famines of 1877 and 1899.

and about this man called richard temple, who first tried to help the poor but then was reprimanded and went on to demonstrate his loyalty to the principles of the Free Market:

he made "it illegal in the state of Madras to give relief donations that might interfere with the price of grain " ...

temple came up with this very scientific tihng called the Temple Wage: "rations provided 1,627 calories a day, 123 calories less than the starvation rations of the Nazi death camp Buchenwald"

"The British government estimated that 5.5 million died, other estimates range upward from seven million"

src: Eugene Linden, "The Winds of Change"


http://www.theglobalist...oryId.aspx?StoryId=5516


but we shouldnt feel singled out. the english were nothing if not impartial. they forced ireland to export food too, at gunpoint, during the massive irish famine. "Christine Kinealy ... writes that Irish exports ... actually increased during the famine. The food was shipped under guard from the most famine-stricken parts of Ireland."
http://en.wikipedia.org...Food_exports_to_England
Arul Francis
Clayton, California
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
16
Arun Maheshwari from Bangalore says: "Like many eternal mysteries/dualities of India, why a revolution didn't happen ... May be it is the genius of the Hindu construct of society ... The discrimanting and the discriminated both accept discrimination as a natural fact of life. ... a sense of belonging (caste)"

well, we need both sides don't we? both the oppressor and the oppressed need to give their version before we can complacently congratulate ourselves that they BOTH accept it as a natural fact of life and that they both feel a sense of belonging. right now we only have one side.

and my problem a lot of the books and articles and history written about the oppressed is that they are written by the oppressor.

to give you some examples, "towards a non-brahmin millenium" in 1998, where one of the authors is a brahmin, or so i've heard, and a history of dalit movements and another essay of resistance to brahminism in tamil nadu, i read this essay by a man called venkatachalapathy, very sympathetic of course, but i can only assume its a brahmin.

so of course its not going to give the real story no matter how sympathetic. in fact, i see such "sympathetic" histories of the opposing side as an extension of oppression, in that it further takes away their voice, rather than as an antidote to it.
Arul Francis
Clayton, California
Mar 19, 2008 12:00 AM
15
marie antoinette was singled out for hatred by the french more bcs she was austrian than anything else, anyway, i was reading this interesting essay about how small property owners dug in and were able to successfully resist big money taking away their land and i found some interesting things in this other book

from:
http://books.google.com...nch+revolution+lefebvre


"during the seventeenth century, rulers in France, ... adopted a mercantilist policy that encouraged the growth of capitalism" [src: George Lefebvre, 'The French Revolution' 1964 p 71] ...
"[in europe] aristocrats monopolized landed property" [p 76] "catherine extended serfdom and distributed ... untold numbers of peasants taken from the imperial domain" ...

"the eighteenth century was marked by aristocratic revival as well as the bourgeoisie's ascent" [p 88]

"the treasury was now empty. Pensions had had to be cut. Stockholders received nothing" [p 101]

"long-term rise in prices swelled the income of large landowners and bourgeoisie, wages failed to keep pace ... living standard of the masses was steadily declining. Famine, when it came, overwhelmed the populace" [p 107]

"There was no bread because Brienne removed controls on grain exports and shipments in 1787 ... final blow was that collectors and lords profited even more from the high prices that increased poverty" [p 118]
Arul Francis
Clayton, California
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
14
A great, concerned Pakistani is Ken, friend and shahgird. Now at Victoria University in Saint Albans, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
13
A little plot of earth
Landless labourers and socially marginalized groups march into New Delhi demanding a piece of the country’s new-found prosperity
In the same week that India celebrated the emergence of home-grown entrepreneur Mukesh Ambani as the world’s richest person, landless labourers and socially marginalized groups marched into its capital by the thousand, demanding a piece of the country’s new-found prosperity.
Ambani’s riches, now topping $63.2 billion, are a product of the economic miracle presided over by the business-friendly Government of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, a former World Bank economist.
But it is a miracle that has not touched an estimated 70 per cent of India’s 1.1 billion people who eke a living out of farming and hard, unorganized labour.
According to World Bank estimates, more than 450 million Indians live on less than a dollar a day, and India has been witness in recent years to hundreds of impoverished farmers committing suicide after being caught in debt traps.
So at the end of October, 25,000 protestors assembled peacefully amidst New Delhi’s glass-sheathed malls and skyscrapers. They had marched 300 kilometres from the central city of Gwalior to ask for the very basics – small plots of land on which to farm. They said they had nothing to go back home for, and would wait as long as necessary for a satisfactory response from their Government.
The Government was shaken enough to make the gesture of conceding to their demands the very next day. It agreed to appoint a committee of experts, chaired by Singh himself, to consider ways of speeding up land reform – one of independent India’s long-forgotten goals.
Although Singh’s Congress Party-led Government came to power in 2004 promising to give a ‘human face to liberalization’, its policy of granting quick approvals for many ‘Special Economic Zones’, promoting agro-fuels and changing land laws has exacerbated a land-grab by the rich.
Edged off whatever land they held by relentless development projects, over 20 million people have become ‘internally displaced’ since independence, resulting in conflicts between farmers and corporate interests. After 14 farmers were shot dead by police in West Bengal state in 2007, a plan to acquire 8,900 hectares of land for a petrochemical complex had to be shelved.
‘In the recent years of economic liberalization, the programme of land distribution among the landless has been badly neglected, while hundreds of thousands of acres have been taken away from peasants for industries, mining, dams and other projects. Nonviolent struggle for protecting the land rights of the poor cannot be delayed any further,’ said PV Rajagopal, the main organizer of the march.
Jagdish and Srilal, indigenous Sahariya people from central Madhya Pradesh, explained why they were there: ‘Rich, influential persons have occupied the land which was to be allocated to us. We have been to the state capital to get justice, but failed. Now we’ve come to the biggest seat of power in Delhi to demand our traditional right over jal, jangal, jameen [water, forest, land].’
Usha Devi and Sonakali travelled from the Arrah district of eastern Bihar. ‘We are Dalits [so-called ‘untouchables’]. We work as farm labourers from dawn to dusk for about 25 rupees [5 US cents]. Our men get slightly more, but our families can’t survive. We have come here to demand farmland, the houses and the wages the Government has been promising us for many years.’




Bharat Dogra, IPS
Source:
http://www.newint.org/c.../2008/01/01/landrights/




Ken Fernandes
Asian Coalition for Housing Rights
Eviction Watch & Housing Rights Programme
www.achr.net



Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
12
US slowdown may affect India's growth rate: UNDP
18 Mar, 2008, 2201 hrs IST, PTI


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MUMBAI: The slowdown in the US economy could affect the growth rate of India, a top official of the United Nations Development Programme said here on Tuesday.

"India achieved eight per cent plus growth rate over the last three years, when the global economy was doing well," Kemal Dervis, Administrator of UNDP, told a press conference.

But if there is a slowdown in the US, which could affect the global growth, it may be difficult for India to sustain the growth rate of eight per cent, Dervis said.

The UNDP is the global development network of the United Nations.

When asked whether recession would hit the US, Dervis said it is difficult to say, though 70 per cent of the economists believe so. But there could be a substantial slowdown, which may impact the world economy and markets.

He said the impact of the US slowdown would impact countries based on the their dependence on the world's largest economy. The financial markets are interlinked and equity and other financial assets could see a decline, he said.




Also Read

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à A decade of high growth ahead: FM

à Mild US slowdown may help India: Rangarajan

à CEOs make the most of FM's presence

à CEOs raise issues of concern with FM

à Growth tune a hit with industry



"The slowdown will affect imports into the US as the people feel less rich, they will spend less," he said.

Talking about representation for India on the Security Council of the UN, Kemal Dervis, who is the third highest ranking official in the United Nations System after the Secretary-General and the Deputy Secretary-General, said he would not like to comment on it as an UN official.

But he said the current structure of the security council reflects post World War II scenario and it would be fair if there are some changes in it.

Referring to the UNDP, he said global assistance under UNDP is worth 2 billion dollars and bulk of it goes to countries from Sub-Sahara and Africa.

The allocation for India is 50 million dollars. The focus of the UNDP is on poverty eradication, sustainable livelihoods and capacity building among the poor, he
added.

------------------------------------
----------------

War on Terror?. Will the so-called Terrorists and China be the ultimate Winners?. What have you to say MR. THOMASMID?.




Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
11
Paulson admits U.S. economy in sharp decline Tue Mar 18, 10:10 AM ET



U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson on Tuesday described the economy as being in "sharp decline," the closest he has come yet to conceding an election-year recession has set in.

Appearing tired after a weekend of helping to broker a fire sale takeover of Wall Street investment bank Bear Stearns to keep it from outright collapse, Paulson pushed back against efforts to have him admit a recession was under way.

"There's no doubt that the American people know that the economy has turned down sharply. So to me much less important is the label that's placed on it today. Much more important is what we do about it," he told NBC's Today Show.

Paulson also appeared on ABC's "Good Morning America" where he claimed the Bush administration's $152-billion fiscal stimulus program could generate hundreds of thousands of jobs once tax rebate checks begin flowing in May.

"It will start making a difference here in the second and third quarter, maybe adding 500,000 or more jobs," he said without elaborating about the sectors that might create jobs.

Checks of $600 for individuals and $1,200 for couples are to start being issued on May 2.

Treasury officials, in cooperation with the Federal Reserve, worked nonstop last weekend to help engineer the $2-a-share takeover of Bear Stearns by JPMorgan as they sought to restore some stability to shell-shocked financial markets.

Fed policy-makers were meeting on Tuesday amid expectations their next step will be to slash interest rates by a whopping 1 percent to try to give the flagging U.S. economy a lift.

But the turbulence that persists in markets, analysts say, stems substantially from a loss of confidence that has made ordinary investors wary and threatens to become an outright credit crunch as banks and financial institutions become reluctant to make loans or to take risks.

Paulson insisted Treasury was "all over" the turbulence in capital markets and said he did not think Bear Stearns shareholders believe they have been bailed out by the Federal Reserve.

"The big focus on the part of all policy makers is to minimize the spillover to the real economy. We need to keep our capital markets stable, functioning well," Paulson told NBC.

He said he had great confidence in U.S. capital markets, saying they were resilient and flexible, but it would take some time to work through the turbulence.

The latest evidence on Tuesday pointed to continuing and extended problems for economic policy-makers. Government data showed so-called core wholesale prices, excluding food and energy, measured by the Producer Price Index climbed at the fastest pace in February in more than a year.

Construction starts on new houses declined another 0.6 percent and applications for building permits tumbled 7.8 percent in February, an indicator that the deterioration in the U.S. housing sector will continue to worsen for some
time.

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War On Terror?.
Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
10
JOSEPH OF KARACHI
We have, at least, three honest and straight-forward Indians in this Forum in Arun, Ghulam and Rajneesh.


JOSEPH
KARACHI PAKISTAN
06:21:35PM (IST)

I am afraid can't say the same about any Puristani on this forum.
By the way any corroboration of the pistol held to the temple theory of yours.
vikas ranjan
delhi, India
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
9
I did never suggest, MR. ARUN MAHESHWARI, that but for India, South Asia is hunky dory. Nor is it my intention to teach you to "suck eggs". I am here to ask Indians to become more reasonable in their dealings with and attitude toward other South Asians.

I am reactive when one is boorish.

Do comment about my suggestion to MR. VINOD, that Hinduism should enter the "Conversion Business". Thank You.

Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
8
A thoughtful and intelligent piece by Anirban Bose. Written with respect and sympathy for a country he obviously has great affinity and toward. These kinds of articles will be welcome, with reservation; it would of course help matters if he could suggest ways whereby more people could beneift more quickly from the new prosperity and growth that has overtaken India. If he feels deep down that neo-liberal economics is not bringing the greatest good to the greatest numbe, what then does he feel is a viable alternative?
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
7
Kiran .... "But then, may be West Bangal IS different than the rest of India!!"

Or may be Mumbai is different. I have always thought of Mumbai as the real modern urban city in India, so it is good to know what you say. Except when once in a while when you get "thackerayed" in Mumbai.

What the author uses as an example was something that almost happened where I live in Bangalore .... luckily saner minds prevailed. The other solution now days is a "service elevator" where my Dad lives in Kolkata.

The issue though really is that fact that we even think of such restrictions to implement .... the mindset where it comes from.
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
6
Joseph .... for me your criticism is not the problem BUT as per you own claims facts like 1) India is the reason of South Asian problems, 2) If only India would change, South Asia would be great, 3) And finally, you guys are so dumb and I am here to educate you, so that you can see the error of your ways.

I would much rather that each focus on their own house to clean up. Criticize the other is fine too BUT to say the "other" is the only problem (and actually because of the "other" I have a problem otherwise it is all hunky-dory) is amusing to say the least.
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
5
We have, at least, three honest and straight-forward Indians in this Forum in Arun, Ghulam and Rajneesh.

Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
4
given that practically every minute we are awake we discriminate/ill-treat/exclude without even realizing we do.


------------------------------------------
----------

Are you sure about what you say, MR. ARUN MAHESWARI?. Oh, I get it. Indians can criticise their countrt. If other criticise India, they are "nincompoops", even if what they say is fully documented and decently articulated.

Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
3
West Bengal is a land of communists and it is a shame that unskilled labourers are treated this way. Karat, are you listening?
pear
mumbai, India
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
2
Like many eternal mysteries/dualities of India, why a revolution didn't happen will always be a topic of great debate. Based on the great social/political theorists of the 19th/20th century we should have had many revolutions by now.

May be it is the genius of the Hindu construct of society in such minute and complex heirarchies that everyone discrimates against someone and everyone is discriminated by someone else. The discrimanting and the discriminated both accept discrimination as a natural fact of life. And, also is an ironic sort of way the discriminated are also provided a sense of belonging (caste) and place under the harsh Indian sun .... sort of a the release valve for the pressure cooker to not blast (revolution).

A human in our thinking is many more things before he/she is just a human like you and me, deserving of at least the opportunity that we expect for ourselves.

I am always amused at our reactions to discrimination by so called foreigners or in foreign lands, e.g., Shilpa affair, given that practically every minute we are awake we discriminate/ill-treat/exclude without even realizing we do.
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Mar 18, 2008 12:00 AM
1
I am surprised because here, in Bombay, where people have been living in flats from their grandfather’s times, elevators are used by maids, drivers, postmen and everybody else. Here, if the watchmen don’t allow the delivery man to use lift, they will simply dump the goods in the ground floor and leave. Lugging them up would be my problem. If maids are not allowed in the elevators, they will simply not work for you. Same with all other helps.

But then, may be West Bangal IS different than the rest of India!!
Kiran Bagachi
mumbai, India
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