illustration by Sandeep Adhwaryu
opinion
Idle Worship, Or The Non-Resident's Role Play
Come winter, and Indians will genuflect before the visiting hordes of NRIs
A new festival has been added to the Indian ritual calendar. Like Dussehra and Diwali, it is a winter festival, but unlike them the gods it honours are living beings, who appear before us in flesh and blood instead of being frozen into stone. This relatively new addition to our lives is called NRI puja. It takes place in December, a time when thousands of Non-Resident Indians briefly become Resident Non-Indians.
 
 
Among visiting gods, Salman the creator, Amartya the preserver and Sir Vidia the destroyer are most prominent.
 
 


As a middle-class, English-speaking South Indian, I am always part of these festivities myself. For half my family serve as deities; the other half as worshippers. Whether I like it or not, I am placed by default in the second class. Fortunately, whatever personal apprehensions I have about participating in this annual puja are overcome by the force of professional obligation. As an Indian who chose to live in India, I might affect scorn for the migrants, but as a social scientist I must take cognisance of a phenonemon whose social significance grows with every passing year.

The first thing to note about this puja is that it has space only for a certain kind of NRI. Those who live with Arabs in the Gulf or with Fijians in the South Pacific do not qualify; still less those who have made their home with humans of African descent in the Caribbean. To be worthy of worship, an NRI must live with people whose skin pigmentation is, in the Tamil phrase, paal maadri, literally, the colour of milk.

Among the gods who visit us every winter, three deities tower above the others. Analagous to Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, we have Salman the Creator, Amartya the Preserver, and Sir Vidia the Destroyer. Just as Brahma gave birth to the world, Rushdie gave birth, through his magnificent novel Midnight's Children, to an innovative and globally influential school of Indian writing in English. Like the god he resembles he appears to have done little since—but, for that first and fundamental act of creation, we worship him still.

Vishnu the Preserver is supposed to have had 10 avatars.
 
 
The radicalism of the Non-Resident Religious Radical and the Non-Resident political radical usually stems from deep alienation in a foreign culture.
 
 
His successor probably exceeds him in this regard. Sometimes he comes to us as a Bangladeshi (by virtue of the fact that he was born in Dhaka), at other times as a Bengali, at still other times as a Global Indian. Other roles he has assumed include economist, philosopher, sociologist, historian, and seer. Like the god he resembles he comes to cheer us, to console us, to chastise us.

Siva could set the world ablaze with a mere blink of the eyelids. His modern successor can destroy a reputation by a word or two said (or unsaid). As with Siva, we fear Sir Vidia, we propitiate him, and we worship him. Who knows, if we are diligent and devoted enough, he may grant us some favours in this world (or the next).

In the Hindu pantheon there are three main Gods as well as 33,000 lesser ones. Through the month of December, the Holy Trinity are sighted from afar—prayed to, occasionally touched, but rarely spoken to. But how many Indians get to go to Badrinath anyway? Their regular prayers are offered to more modest deities who live in or visit the smaller shrines in their own villages or towns.

Among these lesser gods, the first and by far the most numerous category consists of the Family Show-Off. This is the man—less often, the woman—who went early to the West, usually the United States, to study, work and earn. He makes trips home every few years—at first coming alone, then with Indian wife acquired through traditional channels, and finally with one or two brats in tow. When these family NRIs appear, we, mere permanent residents, are obliged to pay homage, altering our own lives and work schedules to do so. It is striking how naturally we slip into the role of worshippers; they, as naturally, into the role of the worshipped.

The Family Show-Off is more than willing to speak of the upward curve of his own life: of a better-paid job, a bigger car, a house on the coast. He is certain to note the very different conditions of your life—the traffic jams, the power cuts, the credit card machines that don't work, the water fit only for animals to drink. Some visiting NRIs express anger at these conditions. Others express sympathy, which yet comes with a very large dose of self-satisfaction.

Sometimes the Family Show-Off takes on a second role, that of the Non-Resident Religious Radical, or nrrr. The nrrr tells you that the only way to build a strong, self-reliant nation is to marry Faith with State. Like exiles everywhere, he yearns for the restoration of a pure, uncontaminated, national culture, which in his rendering can only mean a Hindu culture. These nrrrs have been to the Sangh parivar what North Americans Jews are to the Israeli Right and what Irish-Americans have been to the ira—that is, an important source of moral and (more crucially) material support.

When the BJP was in power, much attention was paid to the diasporic fundamentalist. But few, it seems, have noticed the steady growth in influence of another kind of diasporic extremist, whom I call the Non-Resident Political Radical, or NRPR. While the nrrrs tend to come from the commercial and professional classes—they are typically doctors, lawyers, and businessmen—the NRPR are located chiefly in the American academy, as students and professors. They are fervently against 'lpg': liberalisation, privatisation and globalisation. This, despite being beneficiaries of L, P, and G themselves. Some NRPR offer socialist Cuba as an alternate economic model; some others, the Gandhian ideal of the self-sufficient village economy. Where the nrrrs support a political party, namely the BJP, the NRPR are more prone to support, and influence, those social movements which share their distaste for the state, the market, the establishment; for, it seems, everything - and - everyone - but -themselves.

Both kinds of radicalism stem from a deep sense of alienation. The Hindu professional might live in suburban America but he shall never be of it. His neighbours can't pronounce his name, have never heard of his place of origin, don't warm to his music and are uncomprehending of his religion. Back home, however, there are people who both understand him and need him. So he writes cheques to the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, thus to preserve the essence of a culture too elevated for his narrow-minded neighbours to appreciate.

The university radical, for his part, also finds himself pyschologically out of place in America. His fellow dons all know their Marx, but in the wider society the ruling deity is Mammon. The only hope is to take succour in oppositional movements within India. When George Bush's America is so ferociously devoted to consumer capitalism, thank God for the desi leftists, who so heroically keep out the market and keep flickering the fading light of socialism. The Mother Country to the rescue, again.

Both kinds of radicals are hypocritical. Living under a Constitution that separates Church from State, the religious radical yet wishes to convert India into a Hindu Pakistan. Living in an open, free society that encourages innovation and enterprise, the political radical yet wants to refashion India into a Burma writ large, into an isolated, autarkic autocracy that shall pass itself off as a socialist utopia.

To be fair, and for the sake of completeness, I must note that there are many Anglo-American NRIs who do not fall into the categories identified above. These are human beings and not deities, as unsure as normally resident Indians normally are about how to improve the country or settle the fate of the world. With these ordinary NRIs our relationship is rather more equitable—for they talk to us, rather than down at us.

When was the first ever NRI puja held? I think I can say without too much fear of contradiction that it was not before the 1960s—when the first big wave of professional emigration into the US began—that this particular festival entered our ritual calendar. At first it was observed in isolated pockets, chiefly in south India. But over the years the number of deities grew and grew. Besides, they now came from every state of the Union, returning each winter to show their face and receive devotions in return.

However, it is just conceivable that the festival has peaked, that its most glorious days are behind it. With the surge in the economy, the previously disadvantaged worshipper has disposable cash of his own; now, come late December, he seeks to holiday in Bali or New Zealand rather than stay back for the rituals at home. In any case, repeated contact with the deity has led to a certain disenchantment. Some of us cannot wait now for the New Year to ring in and the flights to New York to take off, so that we can turn, with relief and anticipation, to worshipping those Gods—Shahrukh Khan and Sachin Tendulkar pre-eminent among them—who come not on fleeting annual visits but are with us (and in us, and for us) always.
 
Daily MailPublished
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Dec 29, 2007 12:00 AM
71
Do the hordes of protesting NRI's who have written pained letters of anguish, no sense of humor or any irony of self? As an NRI myself, I have to say the latter are all over New York still wearing faded kurtas and worshipping at the altar of Arundhati Roy and the Karats. The former can be recognised anywhere. He will be the only one wearing shorts, speaking in mega decibels and his children will be trailing behind with sneakers and back packs. By the way, the allusion to the trinity had to be the funniest piece of writing I've read in a long while.
Hari Chandra
New York, United States
Dec 26, 2007 12:00 AM
70
The NRRI's or NON RESIDENT RETARDED INDIANS live donate money to VHP to burn and kill any opposition to the Hindu extremism in India, will lecture about 'pseudo-secularism' but when they are at the receiving end in a white christian country, they chant the secular mantra themselves. Talk about hypocrisy! Or pure form of a low value system and morals? Guha is 100% right!
Raj
Chicago, United States
Dec 25, 2007 12:00 AM
69
Reading Idle Worship, Or the Non-Resident's Role Play, I can sense that Guha is just a traditional historian who has his facts straight as to who won and who lost. He is certainly not the history researcher who would tell his audience as to how close to defeat the winner was.

When uncle left for the West in late 60s like horde of others who were let loose with Reserve Bank of India’s “P Form” to escape socialism, he had a fistful of eight dollars. Thanks to all the uncles for their money they sent home, the Reserve Bank of India is now overflowing with foreign exchange reserves. Guha, who does not seem to have a personal NRI, refuses to acknowledge the living deities the government worships on the Pravasi Bhartiya Diwas each year.

Non-resident religious radicals (NRRR) and the non-resident political radicals (NRPR) Guha mentions in his Opinion are those among the NRI boomers who are damn mad about like what his people did when Moses was away to Mount Sinai for His commandments. Guha has to only look inside from a place far off to understand. Or, he can, for a change, read others like Tavleen Singh and KPS Gill. NRIs love their Matribhumi as much as these concerned writers do. The fate took NRIs out of India; it could not take India out of them.
P. Paul
Kartarpur, India
Dec 24, 2007 12:00 AM
68
"Both kinds of radicalism stem from a deep sense of alienation. The Hindu professional might live in suburban America but he shall never be of it. His neighbours can't pronounce his name, have never heard of his place of origin, don't warm to his music and are uncomprehending of his religion."

Just perfect. Mr. Guha, Your observations are very accurate. A lot of Indians live life in American culture outside looking in and so they resent someone pointing out that to them. I heard it is worse in UK. When I first visited India in early seventies, I was surprised the expectation around friends, and relatives. I was supposed to be smoking, drinking Chivas Regal and womenizing...when I told them I did not do any of those, there was a let down because everyone before me that visited India told tall stories. I thought those days are over...but apparently not!
KMGuru
Monroe, India
Dec 23, 2007 12:00 AM
67
People like Guha have survived in time of mediocrity. They dislike emergence of a powerful and affluent group like NRIs.

Congress with their regressive policies have over decades spawned trash like GUHAs.

They are being challenged by brand new generation who have succeeded even outside and wish to infuse in elements in social life of India; these are like pouring acid in roots of communists like Guha.

His despair is understandable but he has to live with.
Look the people of Gujarat have voted a fascist party, so people of Gujarat is fascist?

These brand of Idiots survive on regressive factor of Indian society they wish to perpetuate the same ideology, this hate outburst is only a reflection.

Mr Guha go for a face lift in your existence or you are doomed.
vimal
Munich, Germany
Dec 23, 2007 12:00 AM
66
It is dissappointing and sad to see a respected author & histrian like Ramachandra Guha spew out vacant and unwarranted vitriolic gainst NRIs.

Indian diaspora have always maitained close links with their motherland, maintained thier identity and have always keenly contributed to the growth of the country in all possible manners. Mr. Guha seems to have an unusually skewed understanding of the NRI mind - or is it a genius going astray.

I strongly advise Mr Guha to reasearch his subject well before flying off at a tangent like this
Jayant A. Joshi
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Dec 19, 2007 12:00 AM
65
AUGUSTUS OLD MAC:

These little essays only take me a few minutes, old cove. Not laborious weekends as you imagine, based on your own experience.

But I keep thinking of your Annual Barbecue, known to the neighbours as the Tea Party at Chimp's.

Your Missus murmurs, while using the barbecue fork to pick her teeth:

"Deese blacks sho' lacking manners, deah ! Man ! Dey go wanting to join de white folks at our party, dem chavda-chewers....Without dey knowing WE put in thirty years in all de heat of Madras singing "I'm Dreaming of A White Christmas". Dey want to assimilate wid proper white folks, without dat heroic effort...Never see de like of it. Good ting you scattered dem wid your rocks."

"I go send our son Ganjaboy to break their windows and their dogs' legs dis night", giggled Augustus. "Dat's de way to fix dese upstart vegetarian Hindoos!"

Ganjaboy - as Aloysius Mac-Chimp, their 50 year old six-ton son was known in the neighbourhood - was quite an efficient intimidator. He had been brought up by his father to love de Lawd and gangsta rap, like a good assimilated American.
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Dec 18, 2007 12:00 AM
64
Parbat, after many hours of labor in the maternity ward over the weekend, delivers this baby:

>>I spent time showing you what comical mistakes of English syntax you keep making, and you completely fail to understand, and make kooky excuses for your bloopers...!

I agree you “spent time.” As for its value, the record of our exchanges speaks for itself

>>As for your fatuous railing at Hindu NRIs in the US for failing to assimilate into Yankee suburbia as no doubt you and all other wide-bottomed Christian NRIs have done....!!! Hilarious.

One day you will graduate from sentence fragments to complete sentences.

>>Yes, one can see it, can't one – Augustus…with his outsize belly stuffed incompletely into his tee-shirt sporting

I am your missus’ sumo wrestling partner…

>>his hairy 36 inches around legs parked in out-size clumsy Nikes,

and sadly the hair on my entire body cannot begin to compete with the amount of hair on the upper lip of your missus.

>>his bald pate giving off streams of malodorous sweat, standing on his yellowy front lawn, the product of a life-time of slogging in some puerile function,

the malodorous sweat is standing on my yellowy front lawn? And that lawn, I repeat the lawn, is the product of a life-time of slogging in some puerile function? If it weren’t for you, I would be bored to tears.

>>his vast Missus grinning by his side having just got back from eating a bucket of cookies at the Church Charity Tea....

Looks like Parbat is exercised that I ate all his cookies on this board…

>>They stand there amid a crowd of equally well-fleshed neighbours, all white because Augustus Chimp can't stand mere chavda-chewing Hindoos....

your imagination has as many cliches as your writing

>>Augustus hands out three-ton shanks of roast cattle meat, dripping buckets of healthy fat, to the Yankees. They all chew away, thanking de Lawd and feeling awfully full of "social graces"…

As I chew away on the tattered remains of your dignity?

>>Augustus' Missus has an intellect as huge as she is. She reads the "Reader's Digest".

She reads it to Mr. and Mrs. Parbat who squat on the floor to hear the magical mixture of sounds.

>>The Yanks gawp in admiration at such amazing intellectualism.

They are late comers to the club that you are the president of.

>>Not a specifically Hindu trait at all as you idiotically assume.

All the assuming is being done by your idiotic self.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Dec 18, 2007 12:00 AM
63
MYCABLE:

I have deliberately left a spelling error in the (rather hastily scanned) posting below. Let us see if the eagle eye of Augustus spots it.

I have the misfortune of having read Guha's latest book, his truly sleep-inducing history of medern India. He makes a fearsome era in Indian history seem...tedious, inspid. Didn't tell me a single significant thing I didn't know already. What a feat.

Unless you are a desperate insomniac, follow the good example of the Americans and Brits who have listed it among their favourite books of 2007: don't read it.
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Dec 17, 2007 12:00 AM
62
Augustus Old Mac:

You are beyond help.

I spent time showing you what comical mistakes of English syntax you keep making, and you completely fail to understand, and make kooky excuses for your bloopers...!

As for your fatuous railing at Hindu NRIs in the US for failing to assimilate into Yankee suburbia as no doubt you and all other wide-bottomed Christian NRIs have done....!!! Hilarious.

Yes, one can see it, can't one - Augustus Old Mac with his outsize belly stuffed incompletely into his tee-shirt sporting the Stars and Stripes and the sign "I DIG JESUS AND REAGAN", his hairy 36 inches around legs parked in out-size clumsy Nikes, his bald pate giving off streams of malodorous sweat, standing on his yellowy front lawn, the product of a life-time of slogging in some puerile function, his vast Missus grinning by his side having just got back from eating a bucket of cookies at the Church Charity Tea....They stand there amid a crowd of equally well-fleshed neighbours, all white because Augustus Chimp can't stand mere chavda-chewing Hindoos....Augustus hands out three-ton shanks of roast cattle meat, dripping buckets of healthy fat, to the Yankees. They all chew away, thanking de Lawd and feeling awfully full of "social graces" as compared to the silent and weedy Hindoos who squat indoors surreptiously watching all these brave festivals of truly "assimilated" NRI Christians.

The Hindoos are thanking de Lawd they are not part of this. So ignorant are they ! Our missionaries must get to work to cure them of all these irritating Hindoo vices, reflects Old Augustus through a haze of bovine fat..."Let All De World in Every Corner Sing, My Gawd and King !"

Augustus' Missus has an intellect as huge as she is. She reads the "Reader's Digest". The Yanks gawp in admiration at such amazing intellectualism.

A fine spectacle.

Incidentally, Augustus, you could have saved yourself all your laborious writings on this theme if you had simply seen "The Godfather". That would have stated all that needs to be said about first-generation Americans clinging to the ways of the Old Country. Not a specifically Hindu trait at all as you idiotically assume.
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Dec 15, 2007 12:00 AM
61
Ram! Ram! I was about to buy that book of yours about Indian history. Is it also streotyped and remorseful?

Jaipat S. Jain
mycable
new york, United States
Dec 14, 2007 12:00 AM
60
Guha, you're a great sociologist, one of the brightest brains for an entire Indian generation. Do a fan a favour, and stick to serious writing, will ya? Satire needs to be taut and biting; this one's jumped the shark well before you wrote it.

Here's the deal: I think you know it too.
Akshay
Hyderabad, India
Dec 14, 2007 12:00 AM
59
it was a nice caricature. Only thing I'm confused about it whether he (Guha) is making fun of Gods or the worshipers?
kunal
denver, usa
Dec 14, 2007 12:00 AM
58
shankar,

My bad... Guha is not a south indian surname. It is sometimes a south indian first name. And when father has the first name "Guha" it becomes surname for the kids like in Ramachadra guha's case.

Thanks for bringing it up...
chester pester
timbaktoo, timbaktoo
Dec 14, 2007 12:00 AM
57
Babu/Bodepudi,

>> conflating Hindu self -rule and their Inalienable freedoms for survival

All inalienable innate freedoms are in fact secular. Bigots like you and the jehadis however fail to appreciate that simple fact.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Dec 14, 2007 12:00 AM
56
Babu/Bodepudi,

>> conflating Hindu self -rule and their Inalienable freedoms for survival

All inalienable innate freedoms are in fact secular. Bigots like you and the jehadis however fail to appreciate that simple fact.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Dec 14, 2007 12:00 AM
55
Guha is certainly not a surname either common or uncommon , from Karnataka.

hey i have more than a couple of friends at college with guha surname and they were kannadigas from bangalore. earlier i also used to think that it is a bong surname, but those guys at college assured me that they were pure kannadigas...
chester pester
timbaktoo, timbaktoo
Dec 14, 2007 12:00 AM
54
augustus writes
>>>Pardon me as I giggle my ass off

It is not at all surprising.. Not only you giggle with your ass, you also talk and think with your ass.. all very evidently reflected in your abstractions and articulations.

A journalistic Promised Land flows with nothing else; other than money
Opinion making is for lobbyists. Journalism's purpose is reporting the facts not reporting for opinion making.


Unfortunately, I went to a primary school that forbade writing “could be a possible…” because of some nonsense about “could” already including the idea of possibility
Most likely a christian rightwing missionary school that left no room for possibilities..
Only preached one rigid dogma.
chester pester
timbaktoo, timbaktoo
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
53
Part 1

Parbat writes:

>>Your attempt to show us what was wrong with Guha's silly essay merely confirms that you should stick to one-liners. Your piece gave us the comical spectacle of a buffoon trying painfully to pass himsdelf off as intelligent and sophisticated. Your syntax stinks.

There is that Stalin’s proverbial plucked chicken that keeps following me around even after I grabbed it by its throat and pulled out one feather after another.

>>"Many speculate Mr. Guha as a possible successor to Mr. Mehta to lead this magazine." You meant to say, "Many speculate that Mr Guha could be a possible successor to Mr Mehta in leading this magazine." Man, did you even go to primary school?

Unfortunately, I went to a primary school that forbade writing “could be a possible…” because of some nonsense about “could” already including the idea of possibility.

>>"Like the biblical Moses, Mr. Guha cannot lead you to the journalistic Promised Land where instead of milk and honey, it flows with decisive opinion-making and money." This is.....uproariously muddleheaded.

I always know when you set up yourself to be a jackass and when I will howl like a hyena. This is one of those times.

>>You could begin to untangle that ridiculous confusion of a sentence jinxed by mixed metaphor if you said: "Mr Guha cannot lead you, Moses like, to the Promised Land - a journalistic one flowing, instead of with milk and honey, with decisive (?!) opinion making and money."

Pardon me as I giggle my ass off. Your revision is as clear as mud and as graceful as a pregnant yak.

>>But can you picture a Promised land "flowing with decisive opinion-making"?

Sure. A journalistic Promised Land flows with nothing else; other than money. I can’t picture a land literally flowing with milk and honey either. Yet, it is a vivid and pleasant description of a bountiful land. When you try to fix my writing, you end up lacing one shoe to the other.

>>"For example, consider his thoughts on NRI Religious Radicals and Political Radicals." Why these capitals? It makes you seem like some dim housewife trying to philosophise.

Is that because dim housewives can philosophize with only capital letters?

>>"He is mute on the relative size of one group over the other!" You meant: He is mute on the realtive sizes of the two groups.

For a moment, I thought your suggestion might be an improvement. But, I will wait for someone who can spell relative.

>>You say Guha "picks up an interesting theme about NRIs", after having tiold us he had no theme.

His essay has no theme. But the typology of NRIs is a stray theme that enters his essay inadvertently. Their alienation has nothing to do with being worshipped as gods.

>>"Upon coming into India, they are burdened to project an image of having life “by the balls.” "

>>Another of your bizarre sentences…"In India, the are burdened with projecting the image of "having life by the balls". Yet at home in the US they are deeply alienated outside their professional lives."

There is no additional clarity or economy of words in this potential revision.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
52
Part 2

>>Apart from the charities and perhaps playing sports, these activities apparently necessary to acquiring US suburban identity don't seem terribly elevating. It isn't clear in this context whether or not you blame the Hindu professional for holding aloof.

Good. Because the intent is neither blame nor praise but description.

>>"Instead, he sits in front of a television slightly bigger than his peasant mentality and watches mindless Indian channels via satellite dish." Maybe you should emulate him to acquire a wider outlook? You can hardly do worse than you have done already.

Perhaps. But there is that parbat standard to avoid.

>>And what are the usual US channels like? Very intellectual?

filled with choice…from the sublime to the ridiculous.

>>"In general, his exotic origin, name, music and religion pique genuine curiosity among his neighbors." Why do you use words you don't know the meanings of? You mean incite or provoke, not "pique". Even Hindu peasants might have a clearer grasp of language.

They might. But you don’t. “to pique” also means “to excite” (interest or curiosity). Instead, you “incite” a laugh riot by tangling with me which “provokes” me into slapping you down.

>>"Yet, this socially graceless creature won’t venture outside his clique." A bit confused, aren't you?

Sometimes. But never around you!

>>You have hardly shown us how the poor Hindu fellow could be "socially graceful". Chatting inanely about the lawn?

Description of socially graceless does not require a prescription for socially graceful.

>>Good job you aren't in the running for editor of anything other than the "Nashville Zoo Islamist Bulletin".

Therefore, I will edit your dismal prose. The sentence should start, “good thing you aren’t….” There’s not much an editor to do to sharpen your dull wit.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
51

Faruki:

Is the association of a "hate-filled bigot" with CAIR entirely acceptable?
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
50
One example of what I'm referring to( in highlighting the difference between India and East Asia) is an independence day article in "India Today" 3 years ago. It generally lauded the new economy and liberalisation, but it was written with wit, humour and irony. It didn't just blather propagandistically, how the great Indian people have great call centres which will make them even greater in the great future. That's typical of East Asian lingo. The article ended with a witty line that went something like "We may no longer have the choice, but at least we have the freedom" ( not an exact quote!).That is typical of the Indian style of gently ironic, gently witty and gently humorous all at once. Let me state flatly that it would not be written in Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Philippines, Vietnam, China or South Korea.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
49
But that reputed vibrant intellectual culture, Parbat, doesn't show in their media, their politics, their capacity for self criticism. Of course, I am not speaking of dissidents cowering in fear in some coffee house, speaking in discreet whispers.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
48
As a fellow social-scientist, I am saddened by the effort to stereotype the Indian NRI as well as his/her family. Its not that simple, Dr. Guha. India is a land of significant economic and cultural diversity and I have seen in my research and my life experience, that the relationships of NRIs to their families and communities mirror that diversity. You appear shallow in this article and I know that you aren't shallow at all. Dig deeper, look broader and you will see much more that the disappointingly simple perspective you have articulated here.
Shareen
Chicago, United States
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
47
Dr Gupta / Dr G:

So the old anti-Semitic anti-Tamil is back.

The habit of taking Bengali names hasn't cured your stupidity, either.
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
46
Varun:

You may be unerestimating the individuality of East Asians.

Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, are in fact notorious for their vibrant intellectual culture. Many writers and intellectuals there have lost everything to defend cultural freedom. Westerners think the far East is conformist because its cultural discourse happend mainly in difficult languages Westerners (and Indians) rarely know.

Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
45
>> fyi, guha is a common surname in south india.. especially karnataka.

LOL. Man you are getting confused between Guha and Gowda.

Ramachandra Guha is as South Indian as Deve Gowda is a Punjabi.

Guha is certainly not a surname either common or uncommon , from Karnataka.
Shankar
Bangalore, India
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
44
dr gupta,

fyi, guha is a common surname in south india.. especially karnataka.
ofcourse it is more common in bengal, but not exclusively a bengali name.
chester pester
timbaktoo, timbaktoo
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
43
"Generally speaking, there is at least some shame associated with conspicuous consumption in the West. Such shame is completely missing in the Indian psyche."

Must surely go down as one of the most idiotic statements made in this forum.

This dumbo, Augustus AAA, believes the West have been very coy in going about their daily lives. I tend to agree with that, being a bashful hedonist myself. Never mind if in comparison monks living in monasteries feel that their own frugal existence is the ultimate in hedonistic excess. And for all the other no hopers in the third world hell bent on conspicuous consumption –but having no dosh, living on less than a dollar a day – remember, the Good Book tells us:

“Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven; Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth”.

True, only the poor (or ridiculous) will survive.

Meanwhile, the Donald Trumps of the world – and there are quite a few in America – shall continue to live life kingsize, in great self-denial to themselves, solemnly singing the “Material Girl” hymn in praise of the bounty given by the Lord. That’s why they have a Thanksgiving Day there.

Will the last person leaving Las Vegas pls switch off the (unnecessarily bright) lights!

sandy
Mumbai, India
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
42
Babu/Bodepudi,

Any association between Buddhism and a hate-filled bigot like you is unacceptable.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
41
After a hectic day, while I read Ramachandra Guha's column, I feel only sad for him, having spent few hours in typing them.

Dear Guha, NRIs are not just visitors but investors too. I thought -having a half of your famil as NRIs - you'd be aware of it but I could only feel the quantum of your disppointment. I forgive you for what you did without realizing. :-)

"Experience speaks louder than expertise."

Outlook is strategizing a provocative journalism to get more hits / replies / mails to satify its investors / stakeholders.

Is it what called Media Freedom?
Sasi KC
Reston, United States
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
40
aaa continues with his inferences - so obviously the product of a retarded dimwit.

Not iron clad criteria you mechanical thinking mess! but some potential indicators of assimilation into suburbia that help make my point.
None of the criteria you rant about are any sort of indicators of assimilation. Assimilation is not an attribute you can ascribe to an entire community. Going by your potential indicators many white americans also wont fit in as assimilated.

If the language were such a debilitating barrier, how could they do their jobs? Even those with shaky language skills go to work because they need and want money. They simply don't need or want assimilation. Of course, their kids' story is different.

Only a moron like you would use an argument like that. Assimilation is lower in priority than living. Your case may be differet. According to your illogical logic Chinese, korean, mexicans, latin americans... none of them want assimilation.


Whichever charities that move them...like training tin pot tinklers from timbaktoo to have thicker-skins.

Or a looser missionary putz living in pune.

Kinda proves my point of being insulated and inward looking and thus alienated, don't it?
No it does not. It only proves that they want to give something back to the socieity in which they grew up.

There is some probability they contribute to general charities but no chance of contributing their time.

I will tell you what.. your conjecture is wrong plain simple. I have know many folks who took unpaid leave just to come here and work for eductaion in rural areas.


Most of their socializing is limited to ever fragmenting cliques of different regions, languages, caste and petty jealousies.

Looks like you have had some real bad experience that has left your monkey brain incapable of recovering.

Says I
You saying something is as good as a chimp yip yipping in a zoo.. so you can shut it.

Do you examine a given parameter for an entire population before concluding and eschew any inferences from representative samples

Handful of data points does not constitute a meaningful sample. Sample sizes have to be sufficiently large to impart the necessary power and significane to an experiment.

Oh ye of all-Muslims-are-terrorists faith!
Yeah yeah yeah... This coming from follower of "The ONLY path to salvation is christ" faith.


Its one more indicator of assimilation, dingbat. There is no one thing when done guarantees assimilation
No retard it is not.. there can be no standard indicators for assimilation. One can be well assimilated while not meeting even one of the indicators you like to rave about.

I think you are fixated on the ass in assimilation.
Yes. Asses like you - biggest detriment to assimilation.

There are undoubtedly some that follow the typical pattern...assuming they exist in a world that your brain can handle.
A measley defensive blabbering when the same rule applied to indian x-ians.
chester pester
timbaktoo, timbaktoo
Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM
39
Raveesh writes:

>>I can only speak for myself, but I do not think that a NRI, of whatever income-level, can talk down to a middle-class Indian from any large Indian city or metropolis.

Its not either/or. Its both. Some NRIs do talk in a condescending tone. But, too many Indians interpret perfectly innocuous comments, due to insecurity, as condescending.

>>Frankly speaking, when Indians dream of coming to the US or the UK, it is to primarily afford themselves financial and material security and comfort. The thought of making friends or making a splash in a foreign social circuit is really not uppermost in their minds.

As you speak for yourself, your words not only support the reality of alienation, but it also supports my specific point that alienation is self-imposed.

>> they start assuming that their newfound status will buy them a place in some social circuit which first catches their attention, without realizing that their background and the by-now inherent affinity for materialism, makes them very different from people who have enjoyed a more secure upbringing… people who do not judge everyone on the basis of his/her bank balance.

That’s a very confusing thought. Implicit is the assumption that money can buy social status. Yet the pursuit of "financial security" somehow morphs them into ardent materialists who lose their sense of security? That security was their upbringing in not judging or being judged by bank balances? I don’t know which India that is. An argument that Indians disregard wealth in judging someone’s social status (now or historically) would make a goat blush. Generally speaking, there is at least some shame associated with conspicuous consumption in the West. Such shame is completely missing in the Indian psyche. How great must be Lakshmi Mittal to have married off his daughter in such a lavish wedding! If he ever met one of the Ambani brothers, a typical Indian would probably pee in his pants.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
38
>> Implicit is the assumption that money can buy social status.
>> An argument that Indians disregard wealth in judging someone’s social status (now or historically) would make a goat blush.

You have basically made my point. That monetary worth or standing can buy a social life (not of a certain variety) is an assumption. That Indians consider a person's material worth when deciding the nature of their relationship with him/her, is an unadmitted truth of Indian life. Where I take it further, is in claiming that in the pursuit of wealth, in a foreign and alien land, these impulses become even more firmly engrained in the Indian psyche. That is why I used the word "struggle" in my last posting.
As far as the "secure upbringing" is concerned, let us face it, a person born-and-bred in the US works with the belief that simply because he was born the US, means that he is entitled to a paycheck, low taxes, and a government at his beck and call. Can the same hold true of even a child growing up in a middle-class family in India?
Finally, as far as the question of isolation being self-imposed is concerned, that is true. But, not to take into account that an Indian will first think of his paycheck because of reasons outlined above, while an American will watch a game, without compunction, is to see only one side of the coin. This is blatant rhetoric on my part to make a point, but I hope it has been effective.
Raveesh Varma
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
37
AUGUSTUS OLD MAC:
Your attempt to show us what was wrong with Guha's silly essay merely confirms that you should stick to one-liners. Your piece gave us the comical spectacle of a buffoon trying painfully to pass himsdelf off as intelligent and sophisticated. Your syntax stinks.

"Many speculate Mr. Guha as a possible successor to Mr. Mehta to lead this magazine." You meant to say, "Many speculate that Mr Guha could be a possible successor to Mr Mehta in leading this magazine." Man, did you even go to primary school?

"Like the biblical Moses, Mr. Guha cannot lead you to the journalistic Promised Land where instead of milk and honey, it flows with decisive opinion-making and money." This is.....uproariously muddleheaded.

You could begin to untangle that ridiculous confusion of a sentence jinxed by mixed metaphor if you said: "Mr Guha cannot lead you, Moses like, to the Promised Land - a journalistic one flowing, instead of with milk and honey, with decisive (?!) opinion making and money." But can you picture a Promised land "flowing with decisive opinion-making"? Read Orwell on the subject of mixed metaphors.

"His poor writing is a bad omen for good editing."

You poor sap, one so often has to guess at what you mean through your dim, inexact words. You mean Guha's poor writing (look who is talking!) augurs ill for expectations of good editing by him.

"His lack of discipline, apparent in his writing, necessarily extends to his thinking as well." Now that I agree with wholeheartedly - if applied to you.

"For example, consider his thoughts on NRI Religious Radicals and Political Radicals." Why these capitals? It makes you seem like some dim housewife trying to philosophise.

"He is mute on the relative size of one group over the other!" You meant: He is mute on the realtive sizes of the two groups.

You say Guha "picks up an interesting theme about NRIs", after having tiold us he had no theme.

"Upon coming into India, they are burdened to project an image of having life “by the balls.” "

Another of your bizarre sentences. I am beginning to think Old Mac Speak is a separate language in its own right, with only faint resemblances to English. A less ludicrously clumsy way of putting the same thought would be: "In India, the are burdened with projecting the image of "having life by the balls". Yet at home in the US they are deeply alienated outside their professional lives."

"...the Hindu professional is really not a part of American suburbia by his own choice. He doesn’t volunteer his time for charities; he won’t play sports; he won’t host Super Bowl parties; he won’t carry on inane conversations with neighbors about which lawn service he uses etc." Apart from the charities and perhaps playing sports, these activities apparently necessary to acquiring US suburban identity don't seem terribly elevating. It isn't clear in this context whether or not you blame the Hindu professional for holding aloof.

"Instead, he sits in front of a television slightly bigger than his peasant mentality and watches mindless Indian channels via satellite dish." Maybe you should emulate him to acquire a wider outlook? You can hardly do worse than you have done already.

And what are the usual US channels like? Very intellectual?

"In general, his exotic origin, name, music and religion pique genuine curiosity among his neighbors." Why do you use words you don't know the meanings of? You mean incite or provoke, not "pique". Even Hindu peasants might have a clearer grasp of language.

"Yet, this socially graceless creature won’t venture outside his clique." A bit confused, aren't you? You have hardly shown us how the poor Hindu fellow could be "socially graceful". Chatting inanely about the lawn?

Good job you aren't in the running for editor of anything other than the "Nashville Zoo Islamist Bulletin".
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
36
It is not clear what Mr.Guha is driving at? What he has written just appeare like the landscape of the moon, seen from here!
T.Sathyamurthi
Folsom, United States
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
35
Chester writes:

>>AAA blithers like an ignorant buffoon.. his arrgoance surpassed only by his ignorance.

Chester, as a savvy buffoon, steps in to add his own unsurpassed indolence.

>>Not even americans themselves will fit all the criteria this clown necessiates for an american identity.

Not iron clad criteria you mechanical thinking mess! but some potential indicators of assimilation into suburbia that help make my point.

>>His description may apply to those desis who face a lingusitic barrier because they dont know english

If the language were such a debilitating barrier, how could they do their jobs? Even those with shaky language skills go to work because they need and want money. They simply don't need or want assimilation. Of course, their kids' story is different.

>>He doesn’t volunteer his time for charities;
What charities is aaa talking about?

Whichever charities that move them...like training tin pot tinklers from timbaktoo to have thicker-skins.

>>But a large number of Indians do volunteer time and money for other charities, mostly pertaining to india's development like asha, aid etc.

Kinda proves my point of being insulated and inward looking and thus alienated, don't it? There is some probability they contribute to general charities but no chance of contributing their time. Most of their socializing is limited to ever fragmenting cliques of different regions, languages, caste and petty jealousies.

>>he won’t play sports; Says who ?

Says I

>>Is this fellow tracking habits of all desis and americans that he came to such remarkable conclusion?

Do you examine a given parameter for an entire population before concluding and eschew any inferences from representative samples? Oh ye of all-Muslims-are-terrorists faith!

>>And besides how many americans themselves play sports.

Enough to support a big business of fitness centers on every corner, sports equipment and clothing.

>>Wow... so unless i don't host super bowl parties, i am not a part of suburbia ?

Its one more indicator of assimilation, dingbat. There is no one thing when done guarantees assimilation.

>>What next? Converting to christianity and kissing papal ass?

I think you are fixated on the ass in assimilation.

>>But in reality, the Hindu professional is really not a part of American suburbia by his own choice.
What about the christian indian professionals?

There are undoubtedly some that follow the typical pattern...assuming they exist in a world that your brain can handle.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
34
Yes, I too don't understand this silliness of watching super bowl= true American. There are probably millions of people from all walks of life, who don't watch the superbowl. I know of ethnic Indians who do watch football; what's the big deal about it?
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
33
Varun Shekhar writes:

>>Sounds like a problem/condition of all immigrants, where there is any difference in language, race or religion.

It is common among all first generation immigrants.

>>What makes Indians the object of ascerbic commentary.

They are being analyzed in light of what Guha says about them.

>>Indians are not all of a type; some quickly 'assimilate' into the American mainstream, while others take longer. And then there are degrees of assimilation.

I completely agree. But Guha was using "the Hindu Professional" in the singular form as a metaphor for what is typical in the entire community. I don't think he intends by that literary device to mislead anyone that everyone's experience as exactly the same. Instead, it focuses on the typical.

>>But it's safe to say that no Indian or person of Indian ethnicity completely forgets Indian-ness.

It is also safe to say the same about Poles, Russians, Greeks, Italians....as far as first generation of immigrants go.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
32
This essay per se, is why many Indians despair for the fate of the English language within the subcontinent. I can only speak for myself, but I do not think that a NRI, of whatever income-level, can talk down to a middle-class Indian from any large Indian city or metropolis. The changes which have come into the Indian consumer and social milieu have left the Indian under advertisement a little less naïve and a bit more worldly-wise. Frankly speaking, it is really exciting being in cities like Delhi or Chandigarh. You can feel the change in the air, as apposed to the apathy now normal in cities populated by people who take being citizens of a global superpower for granted.
Frankly speaking, when Indians dream of coming to the US or the UK, it is to primarily afford themselves financial and material security and comfort. The thought of making friends or making a splash in a foreign social circuit is really not uppermost in their minds. When, after considerable struggle, that financial security becomes a reality, they start assuming that their newfound status will buy them a place in some social circuit which first catches their attention, without realizing that their background and the by-now inherent affinity for materialism, makes them very different from people who have enjoyed a more secure upbringing… people who do not judge everyone on the basis of his/her bank balance. The most telling example of my observation is the marked difference between the outlooks of immigrants and their offspring/”brats” born and bred in what-so-ever country. If NRIs could simply have the courage to honestly view their motives for leaving the subcontinent, this inane essay will loose whatever little relevance or “sting” the author attempts to dazzle his hapless readers with!
Raveesh Varma
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
31
AAA blithers like an ignorant buffoon.. his arrgoance surpassed only by his ignorance.
Not even americans themselves will fit all the criteria this clown necessiates for an american identity.
His description may apply to those desis who face a lingusitic barrier because they dont know english. Catholic hispanics are not very different in this regard.

He doesn’t volunteer his time for charities;
What charities is aaa talking about? If it is christian charities for local church, then probably not. But a large number of Indians do volunteer time and money for other charities, mostly pertaining to india's development like asha, aid etc.

he won’t play sports;
Says who ? Is this fellow tracking habits of all desis and americans that he came to such remarkable conclusion ?
And besides how many americans themselves play sports.

he won’t host Super Bowl parties
Wow... so unless i don't host super bowl parties, i am not a part of suburbia ?
What next ? Converting to christianity and kissing papal ass?

But in reality, the Hindu professional is really not a part of American suburbia by his own choice.
What about the christian indian professionals ?
If aaa thinks all of them meet all his requirements, then a dodo probably knew more.

the Hindu professional writes his cheque to the VHP and considers his dharma to have been
discharged.

Not any worse than sinning and then confessing to a preiest to absolve themselves of the sin.
chester pester
timbaktoo, timbaktoo
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
30

Sounds like a problem/condition of all immigrants, where there is any difference in language, race or religion. What makes Indians the object of ascerbic commentary. Indians are not all of a type; some quickly 'assimilate' into the American mainstream, while others take longer. And then there are degrees of assimilation. But it's safe to say that no Indian or person of Indian ethnicity completely forgets Indian-ness.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
29
*Instead of focusing on this interesting theme, Mr. Guha's primary purpose seems to be an attempt at humor and wit. They fall flat because they are so heavy handed and obvious. In short, Mr. Guha is unlikely to make a very good editor because he is not a very good writer.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
28
Many speculate Mr. Guha as a possible successor to Mr. Mehta to lead this magazine. Based on this essay, my unsolicited advice to the owner of this magazine is don’t hire Mr. Guha. Like the biblical Moses, Mr. Guha cannot lead you to the journalistic Promised Land where instead of milk and honey, it flows with decisive opinion-making and money.

The essay sprawls all over the place. It has neither a theme nor a unity. Guha wastes our time with a mock “Holy Trinity” of Rushdie, Sen and Naipaul. They make an extended appearance serving no apparent purpose before moving off stage. Throughout the essay, his satire is heavy handed and clumsy. He also missed an opportunity to follow through with the “gods” metaphor. For example, his third sentence could have read, “This new festival worships the latest addition to our pantheon. While the festival could be called NRI puja, the pantheon expands only to include select NRIs.” His poor writing is a bad omen for good editing.

His lack of discipline, apparent in his writing, necessarily extends to his thinking as well. For example, consider his thoughts on NRI Religious Radicals and Political Radicals. He is mute on the relative size of one group over the other! Wouldn’t a 1000 to 1 ratio be a relevant factor in deciding which group presents a more immediate danger?

Yet, Guha’s essay is not a complete waste of time. He picks up an interesting theme about NRIs. Upon coming into India, they are burdened to project an image of having life “by the balls.” Yet upon returning to where they live, they are deeply alienated outside their professional lives. Guha, however, gives us wrong reasons for that alienation. Though the Hindu professional may appear to have become part of American suburbia, such appearances are deceiving. Sure, he lives in a swanky neighborhood and has one or two luxury cars parked in his driveway. But in reality, the Hindu professional is really not a part of American suburbia by his own choice. He doesn’t volunteer his time for charities; he won’t play sports; he won’t host Super Bowl parties; he won’t carry on inane conversations with neighbors about which lawn service he uses etc. Instead, he sits in front of a television slightly bigger than his peasant mentality and watches mindless Indian channels via satellite dish. In that electronic pool of vacuous insanity, he is not a fish out of water. In general, his exotic origin, name, music and religion pique genuine curiosity among his neighbors. Yet, this socially graceless creature won’t venture outside his clique. Partly through lassitude, partly through hazy guilt, partly to express a fuzzy solidarity, the Hindu professional writes his cheque to the VHP and considers his dharma to have been discharged.

In contrast, the university radical may be out of place in America but he is right at home in an American University. For the students, it is a way station before graduating and finding a job. However, for the radical professoriate and their white counterparts, the American universities subsidize their extended adolescence. This group of NRIs is small in number and even smaller in direct influence.

Instead of focusing on this interesting theme, Mr. Guha heavy handed attempt at humor and wit falls flat. In short, Mr. Guha is unlikely to make a very good editor because he is not a very good writer.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
27
The exhibition of hatred & mocking by our Media of anything smelling pro-BJP or pro-Hindu values is growing manifold now-a-days, especially when Elections are around the corner. It shall be directly attributed proportional to the incoming X'ian Missionary & the Mid-east Oil money. They seem to be in no mood to let go of even us NRI's.

According to our Media,
1. Defending our rights against a malicious portrayel of our own religion in American text-books is so-called "saffron fundamentalism".
2. A group of intellectual NRI's with no political/organisation affiliation, protesting against Sonia in UN suddenly became "Sangh sympathisers"
3. NRI's all over the world sending money to VHP/RSS are all "un-patriotic"
4. And the latest... Supporting a democratical Political outfit such as BJP or Modi is self-idol worship, though nobody can deny the timing of this crap article.

I can say this with authority, that we NRI's would easily surpass by atleast 4-5 times the average National Patriotic quotient, if there were any such thing. Having seen so many countries and cultures, We know which & who is good for the Nation and what exactly is conspiring against the country working towards it's destruction. It's more than natural for us to support BJP for the very survival of the Nation from the hands of Congies/Commies and to start from the scrap towards a developed India. Unfortunately, as they say, People who think don't Vote and People who Vote don't think.
Narayan
Zurich, Switzerland
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
26
Wow, Guha avargale, have you outgrown your anglophilia, cricket fetish and half-baked ambedkarism to write something this funny?

I got it. Berham contractor a.k.a. Busybee has met Shankaracharya, wangled the science of parakaaya pravesha from him and gotten into you. I mean, what else could have gotten into you? Its all Maaya to me.
Narasimhan M.G
Bangalore, India
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
25
The primary reason for a visit is to India is to see the relatives and friends. I do not think anyone is visiting India to be worshiped; they might visit India to worship in the many temples that we might have missed over the time spent elsewhere.

There is always a simple way to handle unwanted or unwelcome guests. Just say no - you are not welcome. The visitor would go his/her merry way.

The author also seems to be misinformed about the Indian professors and students in the US academia. That is one place where there is the most openness and tolerance than anywhere else. At least much more than what the author is revealing about himself. (The stifling of "lpg" was brought about the diva of Indian politics - Indira Gandhi and her family in cahoots with the left. The same group still in power, except that it is an Italian Gandhi in power (who is most certainly enjoying the idol/idle? worship) with the help of the left.
The Hindu professional is in suburban America and he is very much a participant of this landscape just as much as his other Indian, Irish, East European, Chinese, Korean, Cuban, Pakistani or Mexican American neighbors. They are contributing colorfully each in a individual way - to name a few Vikram Pandit, Indira Nooyi....etc. The author is very parochial and provincial - not open at all.
Priya Madhavan
Rochester, United States
Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM
24
Some people are asking whats wrong if India becomes a Hindu state. Nothing wrong with it but why are the same people not wanting to live in a Hindu state but happy at being NRI's in a Christian state and come occaisonly in Dec to act as a Demi-God in the Hindu state.

there is only 1 God and all religions are man's ways of reaching that God, so it doesnt matter what that state is called as long as u recognise the God inside u and show respect to the God in others.
r
d, d
Dec 11, 2007 12:00 AM
23
>> Eat your heart out in your Banglorean dump, you dull predictable fellow.

Good, biting review Parbat. Enjoyed reading it almost as much as the article itself.
vijay
Chennai, India
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
22
Yes, I've never understood this business of a "Hindu Pakistan" Why is it an either-or situation? There can be a predominantly Hindu ethos and preeminence of certain symbols and ideas derived from Hinduism, without being military dominated, fanatic and terrorist infested like Paksitan.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
21
I will eagerly wait for the next issue of Outlook, to see what the NRI readers have to say.
Vishwanath Rao
Bangalore, India
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
20
Seshadri,

>> The secularism they ridicule is not the real state-faith separation, but the 'selective secularism' practiced by india's selfish politicians.

They use the latter as an excuse to ridicule and malign the former.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
19
Parbat/Ramdas/Sandhu/Abdullah/Thomas,

>> You are very busily involved in the business of turning Hindu India into a Muslim Pakistan.

Lying again! It is you who have constantly berated secularism, and you who have repeatedly advocated making India a theocratic country like Pakistan.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
18
While there is a lot of merit in Mr. Guha's article, do I notice a streak of envy in his writings. Does he want to be installed in the place of the current trinity? I hope Mr. Guha will be honest in his reply.
Girish
delhi, india
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
17
Guha is obviously, pathetically, fixated on NRI glamour.

If he really was the Indian proud of having chosen to live in India - though what's there to be so proud about that if all he is is a pretty low-gradwe scribbler? - he wouldn't care two bits about NRIs in America or elsewhere.

Does Guha seriously think India gains a copper coin from his measly presence in it?

Notice how he says the god-like NRIs are only the ones from America - nowhere else. Fo HIM, he means.

Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
16
Gulam:>>" ridiculing secularism and being quite comfortable with our religious bigotries"

The secularism they ridicule is not the real state-faith separation, but the 'selective secularism' practiced by india's selfish politicians, like MK, calling hinduism superstition, while respecting islam and chritianity as valid religions, to ensure the minority vote-banks' support in elections. Having faith in hinduism is 'bigotry', for them, as it is for you.

>>"they are more interested in distribution than in growth, and they seek short cuts to economic nirvana"
They are not for the marxist approach to distribution of poverty for all except the politbureau members, bringing about a low-level state of economic equilibrium. They want real distribution of economic opportunity and development, as per competitive enterprise, to all people in the country, instead of prerogatives being confined to a few selected 'political-class' 'family-dynasties' in each state and the centre, supported by anti-national votebanks.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
15
The article had been sunshine in this cold and rainy weather.

I used to be a human senior god a few years ago, but not any more. I am in competition with fellow gods who are mushrooming both in the US and in India. These gods are young, have a louder jingle in their pockets, and can relate to their devotees better than I can do now.

My devotees have dwindled in numbers and their attention span is down to simple yawns. No more big crowds at the air port to receive me, either. A few of them have established their own ministries. What a change!

I take the change in stride. Life goes on!
sohan
rockville, United States
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
14
Was laughing so hard! A really good example of 'parody'!
tamil
dublin, Ireland
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
13
Why Guhan should take it for granted that a Hindu India will be the equivalent of a medieval theocracy like Pakistan is an enigma- unless one puts it down to a barren mind's enslavement to the most tedious "Nehruvian" superstitions.

The UK is an Anglican State, yet thoroughly tolerant of all religions and of non-believers.

Ahy can't India follow that example?

Why should Hindus not assert the right of their religion to have state recognition in the only significant country in which Hindus have a majority?

There are loads of Chrsitian states, Muslim states. Why should the sky fall down if there is a Hindu state in India - making it only two Hindu state in the whole world??
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
12
Ghulam Faruki:


You are very busily involved in the business of turning Hindu India into a Muslim Pakistan - as is evidenced by your defence of a vile Islamist hate group like CAIR in the US, whose officials have been jailed for collaboration with Islamic terrorists, and which is in receipt of Saudi funding.

No-one here is fooled by you any longer.
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
11
What Guha seems to mean is that he would very much love to be an NRI himself, rollicking happily as an overpaid academic wisdom-dispenser to dim and glib Yanks among the snows of Boston or the salubrious surroundings of Frisco - but for the sake of some fancied chance of literary immortality (fat chance that, for his paltry dull snctimonious tomes !) he has chosen to squat on heroically in the polluted and pathetic environs of poor beknighted shabby India.

He has made a great sacrifice, and he knows it. Hence his gripe about the Indians who sensibly upped and left for the best country in the world - good ol' USA (though Canada is perhaps even better in some ways).

I know the US NRIs well, and I think they are heaps better than the loathsome type known as the Desi Middle Class.

The typical NRI of some years' standing in the US or Canada is, as I have found, a sensible, modest guy who works hard, brings up his or her children intelligently, is often deeply proud of Hindu culture if a Hindu, or strongly Christian if of Christian background (I know many Chrsitians, being married to one) - the very opposite of Augustus Chimp, in short.

I like the NRIs' continued loyalty to Indian cooking, and I -er - love their glossy-skinned women.

So there you have it, Guha.

Eat your heart out in your Banglorean dump, you dull predictable fellow.
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Dec 10, 2007 12:00 AM
10
What is the reason behind Mr. Guha's consternation in this article? Is it the Indian penchant for idol (sidereal or corporeal) - worship, the fact that most of the affluent NRIs who are supporting political or non-political causes in India are Hindus who happen to be disillusioned with the Congress, or that the NRIs whom Mr. Guha knows are hypocrites?
If it is the first, then surely the guilty party is the one paying homage and not the one who is receiving it (who often happens to have no other choice - is he/she expected to refuse to meet his/her relatives for fear of sounding condescending?) As for the solution, banishing idol-worship from the Indian psyche is something that even the idol in question knows is a hopeless endeavour. Why do Mr. Guha's "mere permanent residents" have to accommodate their NRI relative's schedules around their own? Don't they have anything better to do? In fact, in most middle-class families (with NRI relatives) that I am aware of, the case is exactly the opposite - since the NRI is in town only for a short while, it is he/she who has to plan on visiting the hordes of people who have intimated his/her parents in advance that they expect a visit from the NRI. And the NRI is the one who has to either run from pillar to post, or apologize for not being able to make the appointment, or risk being branded callous (or worse, "Western") if neither of these tasks are carried out. It is only in Ekta Kapoor's soap operas does one see the NRI's father throwing a party "in celebration of the NRI's visit" and grudging/ scheming relatives being forced to attend.
If it is the second (and I am referring to the "NRRR" category), then Mr. Guha should advise the Congress to do something to merit foreign contributions from Hindus instead of chastising the BJP for being efficient and hence being eligible for the monies. Although it cannot be denied that the BJP has far right-wing elements, Mr. Guha must accept that the BJP put several plans that would benefit the nation into motion in the few years that it was in power (linking the national highways, linking the rivers, initiating the Nuclear deal without the Hyde Act, to name a few) while the Congress has been found wanting on this front. It is this effort and initiative of the BJP that is being applauded and rewarded by Indians all around the world (including Hindus, Muslims, and Christians, by the way). And since Mr. Guha refers to Badrinath in his article, he would do well to remember that it was the BJP government that sanctioned the widening of the Badrinath highway (moving it from the PWD (Public Works Department) to BRO (Border Roads Organization)), enabling much-needed repairs to be made to the road and forcing pilgrims to actually reach Badrinath before being granted a vision of the deity (if attempting the journey by automobile). This act alone makes the BJP eligible to receive contributions from Hindus worldwide. Lastly, would Mr. Guha be more happy if Hindus made contributions to the CPI instead of the BJP? What is the sticking point here - contributions being made by Hindus en masse (and not Muslims and/or Christians) or contributions being made to the BJP (and not to the Congress or the Left Front)?
If it is the third, then I sympathize with Mr. Guha but would like to remind him that I want to bitch about my relatives, I would be courteous enough to not paint others' with the same brush.
Arun Ramakrishnan
Tustin, United States
Dec 09, 2007 12:00 AM
9
Kudos, Mr. Ramachandra Guha. It would be an understatement if I say, I am stupified with your 'Brute' slap on the face of 'Hypocrites', who think low of Indians just because of having an American address would allow them to go to any low level of demeaning Indians while they show themselves as puritan 'High Castes'. Even in the 'Rants and Raves' we find many such idiots, who flaunt their American address. They show similar idiotic notions concerning religion and culture as well. We are proud of your 'Genius' capable of introspection and self incrimination, before commenting on others. It is people like you who can uphold the flame of truth in the face of 'Hypocrites'.
consistent
Chennai, India
Dec 09, 2007 12:00 AM
8
Mr Guha might be right on the money, but there's no denying the fact that Indians suffer from a humungously huge inferiority complex, which is amplified by the arrival of their seemingly better-off, monied NRI 'relatives' from the "west", ooozing confidence and talking sense, which to them, comes off as patronizing and ridiculing.
Fact is, if you've spent a long time abroad, the conditons in India hits you as atrociously apalling - everything everywhere! Besides, Indians should be glad of the moneny these folks bring in for relatives, and spend on all manner of 'stuff'.
Rather than complaing and seeing them as burdensome, maybe he should be thanful that many of his people have had the good fortune to make it abroad, and make it. Sour grapes, perhaps?
Bodh
Springfield, United States
Dec 09, 2007 12:00 AM
7
Indians have great respect for the mahatma, foreigners even more than us, but Gandhiji himself died with Raama on his lips, the absolute behind all religions on his mind. But, the progeny of the mahatma living it up in India, with benefits derived from his connection obtained after his death [he will not allow any to his progeny when he was alive], seem to think of themselves as some kind of marxian super-gods, who have the prerogative to ridicule the gods worshipped by the hindus selectively, carefully avoiding ridicule of Jesus or Alla, whom the mahatma himself equated with Ram. Hindu-baiters like Gulam, waiting for India and the world to be cleared of the dirt of hinduism, are quite happy with them, naturally.

Familiarity breeds contempt, and gandhi's progeny have only conempt for him, respect only for the italian lady who claims his surname circumstantially. They are welcome to their marxian atheism, but they have no right to denigrate religious nri hindus as 'religious radicals', who still value worship of hindu gods and maintain hindu temples in US and Europe with faith and diligence, found lacking even in our own famous temples. When my nri son visited us with kids, I took them to sree-rangam temple, he and his kids were the only devotees saying vishnu-sahasra-nama while circumambulating the deity!. Even the priests were not saying it, only trying to get donations from nri visitor-devotees.

Perhaps the divines are blessing India with some growth these days, only because of the nri-hindus praying for it in temples outside India and their moms and grandmoms praying for the nri's welfare in temples inside India, despite machinations to the contrary, by the secular politicians in the country supported by marxist intellectuals, for whom hindu deities are only figments of imagination of some fancy-prone poets. But then, right things happen for India, most often, for wrong reasons, doubly proving the existence of a spiritual power protecting mother India, in spite of the spite of indians for her.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Dec 09, 2007 12:00 AM
6
Living under a Constitution that separates Church from State, the religious radical yet wishes to convert India into a Hindu Pakistan.

Or perhaps wishes to prevent conversion of india into another muslim paksitan..

Very condescending of Guha to generalize the "worshippers and worshipped" attributes to all NRIs and their folks back home.

Forget NRIs, i want all resident indians to be subject to the same laws. Muslims and X-ians getting special privileges, having separate special laws is not acceptable to me. Till Guha can do something to make this happen, he should keep his moral judgment of hindusists inside his skull and his trap tight shut.
chester pester
timbaktoo, timbaktoo
Dec 09, 2007 12:00 AM
5
Take a cill pill folks. the article was genuinely funny and you all know at least one person in each of the categories guha has outlined!
vijay
Chennai, India
Dec 09, 2007 12:00 AM
4
Very easy to ridicule economic migrants. Their fears and insecurities force them to desire a strong mother country. In the case of Hindus, there is only one mother country - India.

This mother country has borne the brunt of invasions & crusades by followers of the Religion of Love (ROL) and the Religion of Peace (ROP).

The ROL merely looted the bountiful treasures the mother country had, destroyed its civilizational confidence, but left a semblence of a modern nation state behind.

The ROP brutally assaulted, pillaged and destroyed the mother country. Left behind a few grand monuments. Ungrateful children forced a bloody partition on the mother country to create a "homeland" for their religion.

Yet the mother country today speaks of "preferential treatment" to adherents of the ROP. Evangelists of the ROL are running amok at the holiest of holy Hindu places, such as Tirupati.

If you listen to Right leaning radio talk shows, all of them support the Republican party. Their strong belief is that Judeo-Christian "values" are the bedrock of America. Witness the shouting down of a Hindu prayer in the Senate. They called it an Abomination. After 9/11, Bush launched the "War on Terror" from a Church. Infact, he claims God directs him.

Separation of Church and State. Sounds impressive on paper.
shapra
Santa Clara, USA
Dec 09, 2007 12:00 AM
3
Guha just because ur relatives from abroad are pri$ks doesn;t mean whole world is pri$k.. and stop this idiocy of BJP bashing unresonable might I add. that's what drives u right this kind of prejudiced crap becaue NRIs support BJP
Rahul
Delhi, India
Dec 09, 2007 12:00 AM
2
And GHULAM Y FARUKI supports Jihadis.
asianman
Tempe, United States
Dec 08, 2007 12:00 AM
1
"The radicalism of the Non-Resident Religious Radical and the Non-Resident political radical usually stems from deep alienation in a foreign culture."

This is an excellent point in an excellent essay. Although we in the West live in and appreciate liberal, democratic and secular societies, many of us become Non-resident Religious Radicals wanting the exact opposite values for our mother country, wanting to make it a Hindu Pakistan, sending huge donations to VHP and similar outfits, ridiculing secularism and being quite comfortable with our religious bigotries.

The Non-resident Political Radicals on the other hand, although appreciative of liberalism and democracy in the countries in which they live, consider India to be not ready for or not suitable for such luxuries, they are impatient with the slow pace of upliftment of the aam aadmi in India, they are more interested in distribution than in growth, and they seek short cuts to economic nirvana.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
COLLAPSE COMMENTS   
Post a Comment
You are not logged in, please log in or register
ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SUBSCRIBE | ADVERTISING RATES | COPYRIGHT & DISCLAIMER | COMMENTS POLICY