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A Reality Check For Mush

President Musharraf needs to do some hard thinking. The Indian government, and most ordinary Indians, wish Pakistan stability and peace. He should not act to convert friends into enemies.

Rajinder Puri

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According to official army sources terrorism in Kashmir, backed by Pakistan, has escalated after President Musharraf's domestic crisis worsened. This can mean one of two things. Either Musharraf in desperation is initiating a foreign adventure to divert hostile public opinion in his country. Or, a weakened Musharraf has lost control and sections of the Pakistan establishment feel free to carry out the agenda they have nursed for decades. It would be irrelevant to go into reasons for stepped up terrorism. If terrorism escalates India must be prepared for extreme measures to safeguard its security.

Up to now this writer has urged India and Pakistan to arrive at an arrangement approximating to the European Union in order to resolve contentious issues peacefully. This proposal is based on the reality of the cultural unity that exists in both nations, created through their centuries of shared history and a common language. This does continue to be the proper civilized approach. But if Pakistan, with or without Musharraf's blessing, unleashes another adventure, it is time for plain speaking.

History is governed by ground realities. The reality is that the creation of Pakistan was unnatural and artificial. Ultimately, nature asserts itself and directs the course of history. Statesmanship can make peaceful an inevitable transition. Alternatively, events can make it painful. In this context, this scribe recalls an open letter he wrote to Nawaz Sharif after the Kargil war, which was published in The Hindustan Times of July 2 1999. By coincidence, just two days after it appeared Sharif, as PM, made an unscheduled dash to the US on July 4th for an emergency meeting with President Clinton.

That open letter revealed for the first time a conversation I had with a Chinese diplomat, Qian Qichen, who sought the meeting, held at my residence in early 1980s. Previously, Qian had been private secretary to Zhou Enlai. Subsequently Qian rose to become China's Foreign Minister, and later, its Vice Premier. We had a frank conversation.

I quote from the open letter to Nawaz Sharif:

"Partly to test him, partly out of curiosity, I asked (Qian) how China would react if Pakistan disappeared after a war with India. After all, I asked, were not India's security concerns about China accentuated by a hostile Pakistan? Did he not think India would be reasonable, even generous, if Pakistan, the result of imperialist manipulation, were undone? He looked startled: 'Nobody has put up such an idea', he exclaimed. 'I cannot say. One has to think about this.' That was his spontaneous reaction. He was absolutely correct. He never endorsed the idea. But he didn't discard it either... As for myself I am a believer. I know that one day India and Pakistan will get together. Through diplomacy if possible. Through war if necessary."

If terrorist sleeper cells in Kashmir operate in spite of Musharraf he should acknowledge this and start joint operations with the Indian army to take on the elements initiating it. If the terrorism is occurring with his blessing he should realistically assess its consequences. China is a powerful and loyal ally of Pakistan. But its rulers are realists. Would they continue to support a nation perceived to be a failed state at the cost of jeopardizing political advantage and lucrative markets elsewhere? And can neighbouring nations remain indifferent to a nuclear power divided by civil war? If Pakistan were to unleash a cross-border adventure, it would very obviously be risking future balkanization. Baluchistan and parts of NWFP could break away; leaving Punjab and Sind in Pakistan. Would such a diminished Pakistan survive?

President Musharraf needs to do some hard thinking. The Indian government, and most ordinary Indians, wish Pakistan stability and peace. He should not act to convert friends into enemies.

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Filed In Topics: The Politics of Pakistan, Rajinder Puri

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Nov 20, 2007 12:00 AM 15	Kya Rajinder Bhai .... phir wohi baat .... EU istyle SAU. "As for myself I am a believer. I know that one day India and Pakistan will get together. Through diplomacy if possible. Through war if necessary." I hope that "one day" you are hoping for is in the next cycle of yuga - after the present Kal Yuga ends and a new cycle begins. Why would you want to inherit a mess to cleanup and that too someone else's? We have enough of our own messes and still lot more to accomplish ... why pile on more crap. Arun Maheshwari Bangalore, India
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 14	Ghulam Shourie's style may not go very well with you, but he has India's national interests uppermost in his thoughts than any imported and redundant ideological posturings adopted by a majority of leftist/secularist columnists. You may want to dismiss him as one sided but you yourself are not exactly a fountain of impartiality either ... Vijay Agarwal Northampton, United Kingdom
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 13	Vijay, >> you yourself are not exactly a fountain of impartiality either. Fighting bigotry in this forum does not call for impartiality. You should read some of my letters in Muslim publications as well as in the New York Times! Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 12	Vijay A, >> You have preferred not to comment on what Shourie is actually is trying to highlight. I was only giving an example of his style, which is to be selective and one sided. I have commented on his style several times before. >> do you sincerely believe that the current ruling Pakistani elite has any serious motives to start a "surgical" process that could crush the scourge of talibani/jihadi extremism in that part of the world. These are areas that have never been under full central control, not even under the British. There is a history of collusion between the Talibans and the government and the ISI. Recent events such as the Red Mosque militancy in Islamabad and the massacre of Pakistani soldiers in Waziristan may create greater motivation on the part of the government to take the Taliban head on than ever before, but I do not expect the ambivalence to be completely resolved. I do not see how an unpopular government can exert the ruthlessness required to crush the Taliban. >> then you would have not compared the enmity towards India and Hindus in Pakistani establisment and society with what an average Indian thinks of Pakistan or Pakistanis as our neighbours. As far as the ordinary persons in the street are concerned, the differences may not be as great as you think. According to a recent poll only 17% of Pakistanis have a positive image of America, but 40% of Pakistanis have a positive image of India. I had also referred to the hostility in several posts in this forum as well as in other online Indian forums. >> You seem to be very sensitive and appear quite paranoid reacting to some posts which you perceive as anti-Pakistan or anti-Muslim. I deplore hate rhetoric on both sides. Demonization of each other does not solve anything. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 11	Ghulam You have preferred not to comment on what Shourie is actually is trying to highlight in his 3 part article in Indian Express, but have chosen to nit pick as your usual ... The whole world is watching Pakistan and Musharraf and hoping that if and when given a fair chance, 95% of Pakistani people (as you claim) would vote for those leaders and political parties that promise (their past actions have proven otherwise though) and abide by a democratic or perhaps a secular Pakistan, that will ultimately see the wisdom of not seeing an enemy in India and her people, but a friend that shares a common history, culture, language and cricket, where the 2nd largest population of Muslims live and enjoys, more or less, similar status as the rest of the majority. Unfortunately, this has not been the same in Pakistan or Bangaldesh (Hindus/Sikhs were either forced to leave or convert) ... do you sincerely believe that the current ruling Pakistani elite has any serious motives to start a "surgical" process that could crush the scourge of talibani/jihadi extremism in that part of the world, that the Pakistani "army is completely subordinated to civilian authority; that constitutional government, and the rule of law are instituted; that the ISI in its present form is virtually eliminated; that the curricula of madrassas and government schools are overturned; that the objective of wresting Kashmir is abandoned; that the premise, to use Musharraf’s enunciation, that terrorism and proxy-war are ‘instruments of state policy’ is shed completely; that Pakistan comes to reconcile itself to more realistic notions of the extent to which it can ‘project’ its power; that either the populace goes back on the basic article of faith, ‘Pakistan is an Islamic state’, or that Islam is so thoroughly recast as to be almost unrecognisable." If you do ... then you would have not compared the enmity towards India and Hindus in Pakistani establisment and society with what an average Indian thinks of Pakistan or Pakistanis as our neighbours who were once part of the same country regardless of religion. You seem to be very sensitive and appear quite paranoid reacting to some posts which you perceive as anti-Pakistan or anti-Muslim. Why what others write should worry you ... in India you can even insult Ram and paint Sita nude and get away with it ... Vijay Agarwal Northampton, United Kingdom
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 10	Ganpat/Bagai, >> I see UTube which has many programmes with ex muslims. While youtube is a good source for a variety of topics, you seem to have made it your source for your sole passion, your hate agenda! Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 9	Dishonesty and stupidity make for such a dangerous mix – consider the Lahori-logic from Ghulam here… “Does enmity to India have a central place in Pakistani society? Probably no more than enmity to Pakistan is in our society. One has only to read the posts in this forum to find that out.” Wow!! - So, the fact that Pakistani society has helped kill 100,000 Indians in the last 2 decades is compared with Indian society’s tendency to spew some venom towards Pakistanis on internet forums. Hmmm…..killing of 100,000 Indians versus bad language against Pakistanis in forums – sure sign of dishonesty or just stupidity. Perhaps more of the former, from someone who claims to be an “Indian” Here’s another piece of dishonesty from this same dude: “From all available evidence,jihad and shahadat have exalted status only for a tiny minority of Pakistanis” Apparently, ALL [note ALL]available evidence tells this dude that, only a minority of Pakistanis believe and contribute to jihad – so, no evidence points to the contrary, such as say: - the fact that Pakistani government sponsored text books, promote jihad and shahadat – their education minister defends this - Pakistanis is large numbers support suicide bombings - Articles in Pakistani and world media talk about the widespread support for Jihad, Talibanism amongst the Pakistani population - Daily Times and Friday Times openly talk about Pakistanis collecting millions to give to groups that specialize in killing Indians [LeT, JeM] But, our dude has gone through “all” the evidence and decided to lie about it. Its another matter that only morons use the word “all”, when trying to make an argument such as this – poor education shows through, again. Uses this little piece of dishonesty to attack an honest Indian icon. Of course, general ignorance abounds in the case of this Islamist: “In elections, the religious parties get less than 5% of vote.” Truth: In the last elections [2002] – the MMA received about 11% of the national vote. Polls this time, have predicted at least 15% of the national vote for Islamist parties. This 5% number is an outdated canard. The question is – why is it necessary for someone who “claims” to be an Indian, to try and whitewash the truth about a people who have killed thousands of Indians every year for decades. lookout bug me not mumbai, India
Nov 15, 2007 12:00 AM 8	"As we have seen, the nature of Pakistan’s society today — in which, to recall just one symptom, jihad and shahadat have such exalted status, in which enmity to India has such a central place — is the result of developments over 60 years and more." (Arun Shouri) From all available evidence,jihad and shahadat have exalted status only for a tiny minority of Pakistanis. In elections, the religious parties get less than 5% of vote. That's why Shourie is such an unreliable reporter. Does enmity to India have a central place in Pakistani society? Probably no more than enmity to Pakistan is in our society. One has only to read the posts in this forum to find that out. The posts in some other Indian forums are even worse. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Nov 15, 2007 12:00 AM 7	Puri writes: "As for myself I am a believer. I know that one day India and Pakistan will get together. Through diplomacy if possible. Through war if necessary." But would it change the nature of Pakistani society ? read extracts from: http://www.indianexpress.com/story/239136.html "the nature of Pakistan’s society today — in which, to recall just one symptom, jihad and shahadat have such exalted status, in which enmity to India has such a central place — is the result of developments over 60 years and more. Three features of the ‘solution’ that is necessary are at once evident. First, as analysts like Ajai Sahni, Sushant Sareen and others correctly point out, it will entail deep, very deep surgery, a complete reversal. It will require not just that jihadi groups be absolutely crushed; but, in addition, that the army is completely subordinated to civilian authority; that constitutional government, and the rule of law are instituted; that the ISI in its present form is virtually eliminated; that the curricula of madrassas and government schools are overturned; that the objective of wresting Kashmir is abandoned; that the premise, to use Musharraf’s enunciation, that terrorism and proxy-war are ‘instruments of state policy’ is shed completely; that Pakistan comes to reconcile itself to more realistic notions of the extent to which it can ‘project’ its power; that either the populace goes back on the basic article of faith, ‘Pakistan is an Islamic state’, or that Islam is so thoroughly recast as to be almost unrecognisable. But such an about-turn requires leaders of the highest legitimacy, it requires an intellectual ferment, it requires robust reformers. None of the three is around. The leaders are dwarfs, especially when it comes to religious discourse — none of them could hold her or his own even in front of the run-of-the-mill maulvis who crowd Pakistan’s Islamic TV channels. There is no intellectual ferment within Islam as it is practiced in South Asia. As for reformers, Iqbal is long gone, Maulana Maududi prevails." Vijay Agarwal Northampton, United Kingdom
Nov 15, 2007 12:00 AM 6	he says: "The reality is that the creation of Pakistan was unnatural and artificial. Ultimately, nature asserts itself and directs the course of history." nature? as in ... earthquake? global warming? hurricanes? and he continues: "As for myself I am a believer. I know that one day India and Pakistan will get together. Through diplomacy if possible. Through war if necessary" my goodness! this man needs a daily dose of respidol!!! Arul Francis Clayton, California
Nov 15, 2007 12:00 AM 5	>>..if Pakistan disappeared after a war with India..I know that one day India and Pakistan will get together..>> What a nightmare that would be. War would kill and maim thousands on both sides. Reunification will be disastrous for India. At 30% of total population & growing, the muslims will vote as one block, elect Bhutto as PM and we'll be screwed. If you have listened to Bhutto instigating the Kashmiris into Itjehad, you will know (It went something like "Bachcha Bachcha..Khoon..Mussalman Mauth se nahi darthe..") Pakistan is best left as it is. Let them stew in their troubles for a while. If they need Humanitarian assistance, India & and the rest of the world should provide it. Decades down the line, the demographic bomb will hit us in India. A leftist-centrist government (like the UPA) will bend over and crawl trying to appease the "minority". They will continue to get the "first claim" on all resources. Aurangzeb's unfinished agenda of destruction will continue. Sigh. If only enough Hindus see this coming. shapra Santa Clara, USA
Nov 14, 2007 12:00 AM 4	The only reason why Indians would bother to think about Pakistan is because of it's sponsorship of terrorism into India. A majority out of the 850 million native Hindu population (who are the real Indians) doesn't give a damn about Pakistan and those sections who do, are realist enough to understand that breaking up of Pakistan is the only chance to promote peace in this world. Despite what this nut case talks about, we Hindus have nothing in common with fundementalist mullahs. We believe in peace, harmony, democracy, economic progress, science and equality of every one where as these mullahs in India and Pakistan believe in AK-47's, violence, military rules, terrorism and Taliban mentality where they ban music, destroy world famous Buddha stratues, grow stinking beards, teach violence to kids etc... The best thing to happen for India and the entire world is Pakistan breaking up and their weapons disarmed. Can someone say honestly that if India has been a country of Hindus like Christian USA following Hindu dharma instead of this perverted concept of secularism, would we have witnessed so many riots, violence, terrorism, slow economic progress etc... If rogues like Sonia, MM Singh, Laloo, Karunanidhi, commies are surviving, it is because of these mullahs who are unpatiotic to this country since independence. True Indian ,,, United States
Nov 14, 2007 12:00 AM 3	". He should not act to convert friends into enemies." He already has. He stabbed us back in Kargil. The guy deserves what he is going thor'-as well as Pakistanis. The more they suffer, the much contented I am. Ganesan Nj, USA
Nov 14, 2007 12:00 AM 2	>> if by the grace of God if Pak gets wiped out the face of this earth, most Indians will be happy. I do not know if that is true. At least I have not encountered many Indians with such extreme views. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Nov 14, 2007 12:00 AM 1	"The Indian government, and most ordinary Indians, wish Pakistan stability and peace." That appears to be wishful thinking. Most Indians simply dont care and if by the grace of God if Pak gets wiped out the face of this earth, most Indians will be happy. The elites in the newspaper edit boards and the JNU types will be in deep distress, but thats about it. Ganesan Nj, USA

Nov 14, 2007 12:00 AM 1	"The Indian government, and most ordinary Indians, wish Pakistan stability and peace." That appears to be wishful thinking. Most Indians simply dont care and if by the grace of God if Pak gets wiped out the face of this earth, most Indians will be happy. The elites in the newspaper edit boards and the JNU types will be in deep distress, but thats about it. Ganesan Nj, USA
Nov 14, 2007 12:00 AM 2	>> if by the grace of God if Pak gets wiped out the face of this earth, most Indians will be happy. I do not know if that is true. At least I have not encountered many Indians with such extreme views. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Nov 14, 2007 12:00 AM 3	". He should not act to convert friends into enemies." He already has. He stabbed us back in Kargil. The guy deserves what he is going thor'-as well as Pakistanis. The more they suffer, the much contented I am. Ganesan Nj, USA
Nov 14, 2007 12:00 AM 4	The only reason why Indians would bother to think about Pakistan is because of it's sponsorship of terrorism into India. A majority out of the 850 million native Hindu population (who are the real Indians) doesn't give a damn about Pakistan and those sections who do, are realist enough to understand that breaking up of Pakistan is the only chance to promote peace in this world. Despite what this nut case talks about, we Hindus have nothing in common with fundementalist mullahs. We believe in peace, harmony, democracy, economic progress, science and equality of every one where as these mullahs in India and Pakistan believe in AK-47's, violence, military rules, terrorism and Taliban mentality where they ban music, destroy world famous Buddha stratues, grow stinking beards, teach violence to kids etc... The best thing to happen for India and the entire world is Pakistan breaking up and their weapons disarmed. Can someone say honestly that if India has been a country of Hindus like Christian USA following Hindu dharma instead of this perverted concept of secularism, would we have witnessed so many riots, violence, terrorism, slow economic progress etc... If rogues like Sonia, MM Singh, Laloo, Karunanidhi, commies are surviving, it is because of these mullahs who are unpatiotic to this country since independence. True Indian ,,, United States
Nov 15, 2007 12:00 AM 5	>>..if Pakistan disappeared after a war with India..I know that one day India and Pakistan will get together..>> What a nightmare that would be. War would kill and maim thousands on both sides. Reunification will be disastrous for India. At 30% of total population & growing, the muslims will vote as one block, elect Bhutto as PM and we'll be screwed. If you have listened to Bhutto instigating the Kashmiris into Itjehad, you will know (It went something like "Bachcha Bachcha..Khoon..Mussalman Mauth se nahi darthe..") Pakistan is best left as it is. Let them stew in their troubles for a while. If they need Humanitarian assistance, India & and the rest of the world should provide it. Decades down the line, the demographic bomb will hit us in India. A leftist-centrist government (like the UPA) will bend over and crawl trying to appease the "minority". They will continue to get the "first claim" on all resources. Aurangzeb's unfinished agenda of destruction will continue. Sigh. If only enough Hindus see this coming. shapra Santa Clara, USA
Nov 15, 2007 12:00 AM 6	he says: "The reality is that the creation of Pakistan was unnatural and artificial. Ultimately, nature asserts itself and directs the course of history." nature? as in ... earthquake? global warming? hurricanes? and he continues: "As for myself I am a believer. I know that one day India and Pakistan will get together. Through diplomacy if possible. Through war if necessary" my goodness! this man needs a daily dose of respidol!!! Arul Francis Clayton, California
Nov 15, 2007 12:00 AM 7	Puri writes: "As for myself I am a believer. I know that one day India and Pakistan will get together. Through diplomacy if possible. Through war if necessary." But would it change the nature of Pakistani society ? read extracts from: http://www.indianexpress.com/story/239136.html "the nature of Pakistan’s society today — in which, to recall just one symptom, jihad and shahadat have such exalted status, in which enmity to India has such a central place — is the result of developments over 60 years and more. Three features of the ‘solution’ that is necessary are at once evident. First, as analysts like Ajai Sahni, Sushant Sareen and others correctly point out, it will entail deep, very deep surgery, a complete reversal. It will require not just that jihadi groups be absolutely crushed; but, in addition, that the army is completely subordinated to civilian authority; that constitutional government, and the rule of law are instituted; that the ISI in its present form is virtually eliminated; that the curricula of madrassas and government schools are overturned; that the objective of wresting Kashmir is abandoned; that the premise, to use Musharraf’s enunciation, that terrorism and proxy-war are ‘instruments of state policy’ is shed completely; that Pakistan comes to reconcile itself to more realistic notions of the extent to which it can ‘project’ its power; that either the populace goes back on the basic article of faith, ‘Pakistan is an Islamic state’, or that Islam is so thoroughly recast as to be almost unrecognisable. But such an about-turn requires leaders of the highest legitimacy, it requires an intellectual ferment, it requires robust reformers. None of the three is around. The leaders are dwarfs, especially when it comes to religious discourse — none of them could hold her or his own even in front of the run-of-the-mill maulvis who crowd Pakistan’s Islamic TV channels. There is no intellectual ferment within Islam as it is practiced in South Asia. As for reformers, Iqbal is long gone, Maulana Maududi prevails." Vijay Agarwal Northampton, United Kingdom
Nov 15, 2007 12:00 AM 8	"As we have seen, the nature of Pakistan’s society today — in which, to recall just one symptom, jihad and shahadat have such exalted status, in which enmity to India has such a central place — is the result of developments over 60 years and more." (Arun Shouri) From all available evidence,jihad and shahadat have exalted status only for a tiny minority of Pakistanis. In elections, the religious parties get less than 5% of vote. That's why Shourie is such an unreliable reporter. Does enmity to India have a central place in Pakistani society? Probably no more than enmity to Pakistan is in our society. One has only to read the posts in this forum to find that out. The posts in some other Indian forums are even worse. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 9	Dishonesty and stupidity make for such a dangerous mix – consider the Lahori-logic from Ghulam here… “Does enmity to India have a central place in Pakistani society? Probably no more than enmity to Pakistan is in our society. One has only to read the posts in this forum to find that out.” Wow!! - So, the fact that Pakistani society has helped kill 100,000 Indians in the last 2 decades is compared with Indian society’s tendency to spew some venom towards Pakistanis on internet forums. Hmmm…..killing of 100,000 Indians versus bad language against Pakistanis in forums – sure sign of dishonesty or just stupidity. Perhaps more of the former, from someone who claims to be an “Indian” Here’s another piece of dishonesty from this same dude: “From all available evidence,jihad and shahadat have exalted status only for a tiny minority of Pakistanis” Apparently, ALL [note ALL]available evidence tells this dude that, only a minority of Pakistanis believe and contribute to jihad – so, no evidence points to the contrary, such as say: - the fact that Pakistani government sponsored text books, promote jihad and shahadat – their education minister defends this - Pakistanis is large numbers support suicide bombings - Articles in Pakistani and world media talk about the widespread support for Jihad, Talibanism amongst the Pakistani population - Daily Times and Friday Times openly talk about Pakistanis collecting millions to give to groups that specialize in killing Indians [LeT, JeM] But, our dude has gone through “all” the evidence and decided to lie about it. Its another matter that only morons use the word “all”, when trying to make an argument such as this – poor education shows through, again. Uses this little piece of dishonesty to attack an honest Indian icon. Of course, general ignorance abounds in the case of this Islamist: “In elections, the religious parties get less than 5% of vote.” Truth: In the last elections [2002] – the MMA received about 11% of the national vote. Polls this time, have predicted at least 15% of the national vote for Islamist parties. This 5% number is an outdated canard. The question is – why is it necessary for someone who “claims” to be an Indian, to try and whitewash the truth about a people who have killed thousands of Indians every year for decades. lookout bug me not mumbai, India
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 10	Ganpat/Bagai, >> I see UTube which has many programmes with ex muslims. While youtube is a good source for a variety of topics, you seem to have made it your source for your sole passion, your hate agenda! Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 11	Ghulam You have preferred not to comment on what Shourie is actually is trying to highlight in his 3 part article in Indian Express, but have chosen to nit pick as your usual ... The whole world is watching Pakistan and Musharraf and hoping that if and when given a fair chance, 95% of Pakistani people (as you claim) would vote for those leaders and political parties that promise (their past actions have proven otherwise though) and abide by a democratic or perhaps a secular Pakistan, that will ultimately see the wisdom of not seeing an enemy in India and her people, but a friend that shares a common history, culture, language and cricket, where the 2nd largest population of Muslims live and enjoys, more or less, similar status as the rest of the majority. Unfortunately, this has not been the same in Pakistan or Bangaldesh (Hindus/Sikhs were either forced to leave or convert) ... do you sincerely believe that the current ruling Pakistani elite has any serious motives to start a "surgical" process that could crush the scourge of talibani/jihadi extremism in that part of the world, that the Pakistani "army is completely subordinated to civilian authority; that constitutional government, and the rule of law are instituted; that the ISI in its present form is virtually eliminated; that the curricula of madrassas and government schools are overturned; that the objective of wresting Kashmir is abandoned; that the premise, to use Musharraf’s enunciation, that terrorism and proxy-war are ‘instruments of state policy’ is shed completely; that Pakistan comes to reconcile itself to more realistic notions of the extent to which it can ‘project’ its power; that either the populace goes back on the basic article of faith, ‘Pakistan is an Islamic state’, or that Islam is so thoroughly recast as to be almost unrecognisable." If you do ... then you would have not compared the enmity towards India and Hindus in Pakistani establisment and society with what an average Indian thinks of Pakistan or Pakistanis as our neighbours who were once part of the same country regardless of religion. You seem to be very sensitive and appear quite paranoid reacting to some posts which you perceive as anti-Pakistan or anti-Muslim. Why what others write should worry you ... in India you can even insult Ram and paint Sita nude and get away with it ... Vijay Agarwal Northampton, United Kingdom
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 12	Vijay A, >> You have preferred not to comment on what Shourie is actually is trying to highlight. I was only giving an example of his style, which is to be selective and one sided. I have commented on his style several times before. >> do you sincerely believe that the current ruling Pakistani elite has any serious motives to start a "surgical" process that could crush the scourge of talibani/jihadi extremism in that part of the world. These are areas that have never been under full central control, not even under the British. There is a history of collusion between the Talibans and the government and the ISI. Recent events such as the Red Mosque militancy in Islamabad and the massacre of Pakistani soldiers in Waziristan may create greater motivation on the part of the government to take the Taliban head on than ever before, but I do not expect the ambivalence to be completely resolved. I do not see how an unpopular government can exert the ruthlessness required to crush the Taliban. >> then you would have not compared the enmity towards India and Hindus in Pakistani establisment and society with what an average Indian thinks of Pakistan or Pakistanis as our neighbours. As far as the ordinary persons in the street are concerned, the differences may not be as great as you think. According to a recent poll only 17% of Pakistanis have a positive image of America, but 40% of Pakistanis have a positive image of India. I had also referred to the hostility in several posts in this forum as well as in other online Indian forums. >> You seem to be very sensitive and appear quite paranoid reacting to some posts which you perceive as anti-Pakistan or anti-Muslim. I deplore hate rhetoric on both sides. Demonization of each other does not solve anything. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 13	Vijay, >> you yourself are not exactly a fountain of impartiality either. Fighting bigotry in this forum does not call for impartiality. You should read some of my letters in Muslim publications as well as in the New York Times! Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM 14	Ghulam Shourie's style may not go very well with you, but he has India's national interests uppermost in his thoughts than any imported and redundant ideological posturings adopted by a majority of leftist/secularist columnists. You may want to dismiss him as one sided but you yourself are not exactly a fountain of impartiality either ... Vijay Agarwal Northampton, United Kingdom
Nov 20, 2007 12:00 AM 15	Kya Rajinder Bhai .... phir wohi baat .... EU istyle SAU. "As for myself I am a believer. I know that one day India and Pakistan will get together. Through diplomacy if possible. Through war if necessary." I hope that "one day" you are hoping for is in the next cycle of yuga - after the present Kal Yuga ends and a new cycle begins. Why would you want to inherit a mess to cleanup and that too someone else's? We have enough of our own messes and still lot more to accomplish ... why pile on more crap. Arun Maheshwari Bangalore, India

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5. If someone is being abusive or personal, or generally being a troll or a flame-baiter, please do not stoop to their level. The best response to such posters is to ignore them and send us a message with links to the offending mails at the following email address: Mail AT outlookindia DOT com. Please put "COMPLAINT" in the subject-header of your mail.

6. Please do not copy and paste copyrighted material. If you think that an article on another site has relevance to the point you wish to make, please only quote what is considered "fair-use" and provide a link to the article under question.

7. There is no particular Outlookindia.com line on any subject. The views expressed in our opinion section are those of the author concerned and do not necessarily reflect the views of Outlookindia.com

8. Please also note that the sole responsibility for the comments posted on the site is that of the relevant registered user posting the comment. The comments could be deleted or edited entirely at our discretion if we find them objectionable. However, the mere fact of a comment's existence on our site does not mean that we necessarily approve of its contents. Outlookindia.com however, retains the right to publish any of these comments, with or without editing, in any medium whatsoever.

9.Outlookindia.com is not responsible in any manner whatsoever for how any search engine -- such as Google, Bing etc -- caches or displays the comments posted by you. Please note that you are solely responsible for posting these comments and it is a privilege being granted to our registered users which can be withdrawn in case of abuse. To reiterate:

a. Comments once posted can only be deleted at the discretion of outlookindia.com
b. The comments reflect the views of the authors and not of outlookindia.com
c. Outlookindia.com is not responsible in any manner whatsoever for the way search engines cache or display these comments
d. Please therefore take due caution before you post any comments as your words could potentially show up on search engines such as Google, Bing etc.

10. There is an online thread for our comments policy. You are welcome to post your suggestions here or in case you have a specific issue, to directly email us at Mail AT outlookindia DOT com with the subject header COMPLAINT.

We look forward to your feedback.