Villainy
Outlook Under Attack
Shiv Sena "activists" vandalise Outlook office in Mumbai to "protest" Bal Thackeray being "portrayed in a negative light" in Outlook's Independence Day special issue
Some goons calling themselves Shiv Saina "activists" forcibly entered the Outlook office on the sixth floor of Raheja Chambers in Nariman Point at around 3 PM today, asked for the "editor" and proceeded to ransack the office and threaten the staff members on being told that there was no senior person around.

And the ostensible reason for this sudden outburst of violence? Their party chief being "portrayed in a negative light" in Outlook's Independence Day special issue, which included Bal Thackeray in a list of villains.

It remains unclear whether the specific objection was to be called a villain, the company Thackeray was made to share (his name featured alongside such personages as Nathuram Godse, Gaya Ram, the faceless terrorist, Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, Sanjay Gandhi, Narendra Modi, Mohammed Azharuddin, HKL Bhagat, Sajjan Kumar, Jagdish Tytler, Dawood Ibrahim, Beant Singh and Satwant Singh) or the accompanying text and illustration. But as a mute testimony to the accuracy of the short-profile, office equipment, fax machine, photo-copier machine and window panes were left smashed in today's incident.

The Editor's Guild has called it a direct attack on the freedom of the press "especially in a democratic set-up where political parties are duty-bound to eschew violence," and Outlook editor-in-chief Vinod Mehta has called it a crude attempt to muzzle journalists. "This is a blatant attack on the freedom of the press. The Shiv Sena activists attacked our editorial office in Mumbai and made no attempt to disguise their identity," he said when asked for his response to the outrage in Mumbai, adding that he spoke to Maharashtra Chief Minister Vilas Rao Deshmukh immediately after the attack. "He was quite disturbed after hearing of this attack. We have to consider and introspect that this kind of attack on the press is happening when India is celebrating its 60 years of independence. It is a crude attack on the freedom of the press."

Meanwhile, the Editor's Guild has asked Maharashtra government to provide protection for the magazine and demanded legal action against those who perpetrated the attack and also asked that the "Shiv Sena too should take action against such of its members who have indulged in the attack."

Update: As we write, Shiv Sena on its part has tried to distance itself from the attack with party spokesman Sanjay Raut saying it was the handiwork of a "mob": "I am aware of Sainiks burning copies of Outlook but I don't think the attack on their office was orchestrated by Sainiks. It was a mob attack and the Shiv Sena will not claim any responsibility for it."

 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Aug 18, 2007 12:00 AM
140
Ganpat/Bagai,

>> How is it that you high light the tiniest misbehaviour of Hindus in India and abroad.

Why do you want to zoom in on all Muslim misdeeds, but want fake encounter murders, moral policing, dowry deaths, female foeticides etc swept under the rug? Would it not be better for our society if we openly discussed evil deeds of both sides?

>> it pales into into significance when compared to incidents involveing your community.

Hate message number 2 for today from this bigot.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 18, 2007 12:00 AM
139
Ganpat/Bagai,

>> You resent and quite fairly my demonising of muslims and Islam. This was done by me because I was infuriated by your posts.

That's a lie. You have been doing your badmouthing since before I started posting here. Also you have written the same scurrilous material in sites other than OUTLOOK in which I have never posted.

>> You mention that only about 10,000 muslims are terrorists. The Taliban, the Lashkare Toiba,
Hamas, and numerous terrorists in Iraq would be a much greater number.

Estimate is by several US and UK experts.

This is hate mail number 1 for today from this confirmed bigot.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 18, 2007 12:00 AM
138
Here for you, Mr. Ganpat Ram, is a 'Bouquet Of Reactions.

Is Dubai Safe for a Single Girl?
ktl - 12:05am Oct 2, 2006 EST

I was recently advised to get prepared for a 2-3 month work assignment in Dubai. Was just wondering whether Dubai is safe for a single girl? If anyone could provide tips - basically things like suitable attire, eating alone or going out alone, activities on my own - or websites, would appreciate that very much.

thanks and have a nice day where you are!





------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------




jrs (# 1 of 19)
03:34am Oct 25, 2006 EST
I was in Dubai alone for several days last year and I'm female. I didn't feel that it was unsafe, but I really didn't like it. First of all, there's virtually nothing to do. (I'm not into golf resorts or visiting shopping mall after shopping mall). Also, I was treated rather rudely by service staff virtually everywhere--hotel (Le Meridien), restaurants, you name it. I was told I couldn't eat at a restaurant I tried to enter, because they didn't have a "family room" (room for women, families). I don't know how much of this had to do with me being a woman alone, but regardless, it was unpleasant. I have visited other Muslim countries and have felt very welcome, but nothing about Dubai felt welcoming. Like I said, it was also quite boring--my impression of it was a big, dusty, hot, construction site.




frankgp (# 2 of 19)
07:31am Oct 25, 2006 EST
This might answer some of your questions.
http://www.usatoday.com...ubai-mosque-tours_x.htm





moth (# 3 of 19)
08:39am Oct 25, 2006 EST
For whatever reason you might be spending some time in Dubai. You might as well make the most of it. Based on immersion experiences in other parts of the Arab world I'd take a basic self-defense class before going. Some of the little tricks have come in handy. If there isn't time for a class, look up tips on the Internet.

People are people so it's not as if you are visiting a StarWars bar.

There were amazing belly dancing and meal experiences in the world of women and children, so those invitations are worth accepting. Get any addresses or photos of the kids for the mothers early in the visit in case, hate to say it but, you make a quick getaway later. Men can get lecherous.

Sports you like such as swimming or working out are a way of meeting potential friends.

Side trips such as ruins could make things interesting in a good way


Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Aug 18, 2007 12:00 AM
137
Why do you not like Dubai, Mr. Ganpat Ram?. Is it because it is located in the Muslim United Arab Emirates.

I do not like Dubai too. However, that is because it has priced itself out of my range and is just another 'Concrete Jungle".

Dubai is safe.
Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Aug 18, 2007 12:00 AM
136
Moral police on prowl again.

Bharatiya Janshakti Party workers on Friday blackened the face of a professor in Raipur Medical College for reciting a poem at an Independence Day function in which he allegedly made derogatory remarks against the goddess Lakshmi.


http://www.hindustantim...l+police+on+prowl+again
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 18, 2007 12:00 AM
135
Thugs who make bonfires out of public property or in other words tax payer's hard earned money, should be dealt with an iron fist, no matter who they are.Even at the slightest of instance, the Shiv Sainiks have a tendency to transform into rampaging mobs and arsonists, while the police looks on as mere spectators.
Adnan Nawaz
Seattle, United States
Aug 18, 2007 12:00 AM
134
Shiv Sena is a party of rowdies, goons and buffoons. Mumbai Aamachee slogan shouters Marathi folks should be sent to pakistan.
Bal Thackeray and his siblings are SaapNaath and NaagNaath. Their heads needs to be crushed to save the lives of innocent hindus.
It is unfortunate that Shiv Sainik Tadeepaars are moving scot-free.
Shiv Sainik criminals are running parallel government in Bombay. I condemn the attack of Shiv Sainik goons on outlook office.
Shiv Sena likes only Maratha and hates other hindus.
MISS CHITRA
MANGALORE INDIA
11:19:46AM (IST)
Henceforth, Mangaloreans will reckoned as just species.

Adnan Nawaz
Seattle, United States
Aug 18, 2007 12:00 AM
133
>> Does this apply to Hitler? Stalin? Mao?

Mao is still big in China, In the latest Russian school texts, Stalin is compared to Peter the Great and Bismark. I am sure history books will mention the spectacular economic growth in Hitler's Germany.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
132
CHANAKYA:

The works of M F Husain are attractive as they depict Hindu goddesses in a nude state.

What is your objection?

After all, that is the Hindu style.
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
131
""Aurangzeb did some good and some bad, like most monarchs"

Does this apply to Hitler? Stalin? Mao?

After all Hitler did eliminate unemployment. Stalin made Russia a industrial power.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
130
Joseph:

I agree.

Slumabad Zindabad !!!
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
129
"Aurangzeb did some good and some bad, like most monarchs", you say.

Thus, he was no worse than most ruiers?

And would you say the same of Modi?
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
128
"Aurangzeb did some good and some bad, like most monarchs", you say.

Thus, he was no worse than most ruiers?

And would you say the same of Modi?
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
127
"Aurangzeb did some good and some bad, like most monarchs", you say.

Thus, he was no worse than most ruiers?

And would you say the same of Modi?
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
126
Chankya,

>>
a) Do the Danish cartoons constitute "Freedom of Expression"?

Freedom of expression - Yes. Wise editorship - No.

b) Do the works of Salman Rushdie constitute "Freedom of Expression"? - Yes.

c) Do the works of Taslima Nasreen constitute "Freedom of Expression"? - Yes.

d) Do the works of M F Hussien constitute "Freedom of Expression"? - Yes.

e) Do the works of that painter from Gujarat, Chandramohan, constitute "Freedom of Expression"? - Yes.

f) DO the artciles that appear in papers such as Saamna & Siasat constitute "Freedom of Expression"? - Yes.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
125
Chanakya,

>> this dichotomy between Freedom of Press/Expression/Speech & Fairness is and would be the cause of existing and all future conflicts.

One has to distnguish between freedom of the press issues and quality of journalism issues. It is perfectly legal for a newspaper to be pro-Congress, or pro-BJP, or neutral. It is also legal to criticize a paper's views on any issue. It is not legal to try to curb a paper's freedom to express its views.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
124
Vinod,

>> Ghulam Faruki who on the other hand stopped responding to me ever since I insisted him to answer.

I answered your question twice. You must be blind not to have seen my answer. I have stopped responding to you because you do not understand what I write, you distort my positions and often tell blatant lies. This is my last post on the subject.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
123
Ganpat/Bagai,

>> Freedom to criticise is restricted to ones own beliefs and not to the belief of others.
So Hindus are allowed to have a nasty caste system, Sati, and whatever. Muslims should not criticise this.

First of all, criticizing and running a hate campaign are two totally different things.

Secondly criticism of gross practises such as sati or the caste system or honor killings or dhimmitude is good, and in fact both Akbar and Aurangzeb tried to stop sati, but did not succeed. Insulting the theology or the gods or prophets of others is counterproductive. Introspection about one's own religion and reinterpretations of old dogmas are good.

Making it one's full time business to trash the religion of others and to denigrate another community is a base and reprehensible activity. I do not think any honorable person would indulge in it.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
122
****************
My question to Augustus, Ahlad & Ghulam and others:

a) Do the Danish cartoons constitute "Freedom of Expression"?

b) Do the works of Salman Rushdie constitute "Freedom of Expression"?

c) Do the works of Taslima Nasreen constitute "Freedom of Expression"?

d) Do the works of M F Hussien constitute "Freedom of Expression"?

e) Do the works of that painter from Gujarat, Chandramohan, constitute "Freedom of Expression"?

f) DO the artciles that appear in papers such as Saamna & Siasat constitute "Freedom of Expression"?


Please take your time and answer the above. My answer to the above is yes. To all of them.

I would be interested in what Mr Vinod Mehta would say.
Chanakya
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
121
To Ahlad, Augustus & Ghulam Saheb

Mr Ahlad.... frankly, I do not give a damn about what Taslima & Rushdie write and who it hurts. Nor do I give a damn about Danish Cartoons, M F Hussien's paintings. Or what Vinod Mehta wrote about Bal Thackeray

As I keep saying earlier, its a question of standards. What's good for the goose is good for the gander too.

If M F Hussein can be defended on the question of Freedom, then so do Taslima or Rushdie or the Danish Cartoons.

Taslima's book was banned by the commie Govt in Bengal, while M F Hussein is given the Raja Ravi Varma award by the commie Govt in Kerala.

If you say that the Mumbai blasts are the reaction to the riots which were the reaction to the masjid demolition, then you should be willing to accept that there are other action-reaction riots too.

Mr Augustus....I did not know that ISPs have religions too. As to your question of having to face the consequences, my answer is yes. I have Freedom of Speech and I would express it responsibly and prudently.

Just like a few Muslims here, who, in my opinion, would not openly criticise the war / George Bush openly in the US. You know, like take a placard and wave it in the front of the WHite House. They may do it on the net, in the comfort of their living rooms etc.

As to having similar standards on similar issues, isn't that the basic requirement? After all the credibility of a person depends upon the kind of posturing that he does on similar issues. A person can have different standards on varying issues, but on similar issues, there cannot be differing standards.

Ghulam Saheb, this dichotomy between Freedom of Press/Expression/Speech & Fairness is and would be the cause of existing and all future conflicts.

There are many in this forum, who are otherwise decent people who take rather bigoted position on issues because of the perceived "unfairness" and inconsistencies with this the "seculars" take stands.

Most of these people are educated. If they react this way, then there is no asking as to how the "lowest common denominator" on the street would behave.

A responsible institution like media cannot hide behind semantics that freedom and fairness are different things and should not be confused.
Chanakya
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
120
They victimised Indians other than maharashtrians in the name of protecting the interests of maharashtrians. Kannadiga chaluvaligars tried to imitate shivsena but could not succeed fortunately.
pear
mumbai, India
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
119
""They killed Tamilians, Telgu, Kannadigis, Gujaratis, and North Indian Biharis. ""

MISS CHITRA

When ??????.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
118
Guys,
Let us not confuse Shiv Sena with Hindu party. They are the enemies of hindus. They killed Tamilians, Telgu, Kannadigis, Gujaratis, and North Indian Biharis.
Miss Chitra
Mangalore, India
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
117
Shiv Sena is a party of rowdies, goons and buffoons. Mumbai Aamachee slogan shouters Marathi folks should be sent to pakistan.
Bal Thackeray and his siblings are SaapNaath and NaagNaath. Their heads needs to be crushed to save the lives of innocent hindus.
It is unfortunate that Shiv Sainik Tadeepaars are moving scot-free.
Shiv Sainik criminals are running parallel government in Bombay. I condemn the attack of Shiv Sainik goons on outlook office.
Shiv Sena likes only Maratha and hates other hindus.
Miss Chitra
Mangalore, India
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
116
>> If the European Union can do it, why can not We?
- Joseph

India is the status quo power. If Pakistan accepts things the way they are, then we can have peace starting today.
vijay
Chennai, India
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
115
">> Aurangzeb did uprecendeted atrocities on Hindus in medieval India.

He did some good and some bad, like most monarchs."

What is the good he did?
chaitanya
chennai, India
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
114
Did you expect anything different from the Sena?. They just proved your point albeit in a perverse way. The shocker is not that Sena vandalised Outlook office, it is that these fascists have gained respectability in Indian politics over the past two decades - some thing that the BNP in UK or the Natioal Front in France could never attain
Sriram
Bangalore, India
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
113
Ganesan,



Ganesan,

>> Is this your original thought or did Nicholas Kristoff tell you this?

What made you say a thing like that?
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
112
Faruki:
"these are all tenets of the Bushites, Right Wing Republicans, Washington Times, Fox News and Russ Limbaugh yea sayers"

Is this your original thought or did Nicholas Kristoff tell you this?
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
111
Ganesan,

>> You have no argument to rebut. You hide behind the excuse "not an eco-geek". Did you realise this now or you knew it when you said I oppose abortion and associate with a crazy set of people? Is that your only argument? AL Gore has better arguments.

You make it sound as if the issue is settled, after saying that not enough is known yet about the subject. All I know is that most scientists now support the threat of global warming, and I posted Nicholas Kristof's op-ed of 8/16 for you as further evidence. Discounting global warming, opposing a woman's right to choose, opposing stem cell research, opposing gay rights, poohpoohing Darwinism : these are all tenets of the Bushites, Right Wing Republicans, Washington Times, Fox News and Russ Limbaugh yea sayers. Often all the tenets seem to go together, but not 100% of the time. The liberals too have a bunch of tenets which are bundled up together. If you do not support all the Bush League positions that I had listed, I would say "hallelujah".
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
110
Faruki:

For not believing the hoax called global warming, you said I oppose abortion, darwinism, stem cell research and so on. How those issues had anything to do with global warming beats me. But anyways I answered why I think global warming hysteria is a hoax.

You have no argument to rebut. You hide behind the excuse "not an eco-geek". Did you realise this now or you knew it when you said I oppose abortion and associate with a crazy set of people? Is that your only argument? AL Gore has better arguments.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
109
Faruki:

For not believing the hoax called global warming, you said I oppose abortion, darwinism, stem cell research and so on. How those issues had anything to do with global warming beats me. But anyways I answered why I think global warming hysteria is a hoax.

You have no argument to rebut. You hide behind the excuse "not an eco-geek". Did you realise this now or you knew it when you said I oppose abortion and associate with a crazy set of people? Is that your only argument? AL Gore has better arguments.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
108
Ganesan,

>> BTW, Faruki, why are you silent on global warming?

I said what I wanted to say. I am not an eco-geek, but I take the warnings very seriously.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
107
Haradhan/Jash,

>> That is unislamic. All traces of Muhamud are being destroyed in Saudi Arabia. You are 2 small a thing to raise objection to it.

I don't know what you are blabbering. What I said was simple enough.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
106
BTW, Faruki, why are you silent on global warming? I said a few facts and I am waiting for your reply calling me a neocon who associates himself with a crazy set of people who believe in abortion, flat earth, and so on.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
105
>> Islam believes in only good or bad. No in between shaded are allowed.

But never assume what I believe and what I don't believe.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
104
>> Unlike say Bush or Modi who have done only bad things.

When historians sit down to write their stories, sure they will say that they did some good and some bad.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
103
Why can not we think in terms of Jai Aurangzeb and Shivaji Zindabad, and live in The Living Present and Forget The Dead Past. If the European Union can do it, why can not We?.

Jai Pakistan. Hindustan Zindabad.
Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
102
"He did some good and some bad, like most monarchs."

Unlike say Bush or Modi who have done only bad things.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
101
He did some good and some bad, like most monarchs.


GHULAM Y FARUKI
NEW YORK UNITED STATES

Name one good thing he did for hindus.. U knwo unless even educated folks like you kieep picturing hindu-blood-thirsty barbarians there is not going to be any peace..

Incidentally u also consider Modi hitlar mind you other than perception there doesn't reamin any evidence against anything .. There he did some godo some bad rule goes out of the window.. Shame on u , hypocrite
Rahul
Delhi, India
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
100
Haradhan/Ash,

>> Its Indian Muslims who have to choose whether Aurangjeb, Mahmud of Ghazni, those who involved in Bombay blast.......were/are representative Muslims.

You have made your choices; Thackery, Modi, Bajrangbabu, Vanzara!!!

Will be back in a few hours.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
99
IO have this one question.. All these clowns keep harping about Modiji.. Why don't they take the evidence in support of the garbage they spew against modiji to some court and get registered a cas at least.. I knwo conviction takes time in indian court but registering case should not be difficult if they have even an iota of evidence. IF they can't why don;t they shut up..

from now on Vinod Mehta: A terrorist anti-national in my eyes.. Yes I don't need produce any proof like he never needed to accuse Modi of wrong-doing.

Everyone say with me a NAzi psez VIndo Mehta anti-national pro-pakistan.
Rahul
Delhi, India
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
98
Haradhan,

>> Aurangzeb did uprecendeted atrocities on Hindus in medieval India.

He did some good and some bad, like most monarchs.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
97
Haradhan/Jash,

>> I am not aware of any programme by you, other muslims to bring democracy, secularism to Saudi arabia, Pakistan.

I have no plans or programs for Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. I just have opinions, which you, in your usual nasty way, call "lip service"!


Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
96
Haradhan/Jash,

>> You are being fooled by psuedos for political purpose and you should be worried for that instead of me.

Politicians would use whatever ruses and guiles they can think of to increase their power. There is not a dime's worth of difference between them as far as integrity is concerned. The question is not "Who will help us the most?" but "Who is openly badmouthing us to get votes?"
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
95
Haradhan/Jash,

>> Secularism in India means anti-Hindu, denying the role played by Hinduism/Indic culture.

The contribution of Hindu culture should be affirmed and lauded, together with the contributions of the Muslims, Christians, Sikhs and others. Otherwise we shall become just another theocratic state like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 17, 2007 12:00 AM
94
Haradhan,

>> I have no ill feeling against Islam. Islamism, Islamists are different from Islam - the religion.

I was convinced that you were just another avatar of JASH, but after reading the above, I have to suspend judgement for a bit longer.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
93
Chanakya,

>> So no vandalism, no fatwas, no 51 crore bounties on Danish editors heads, no ban on books, no beheading "Gustaq-e-Rasools" etc.

Absolutely. All of the above are taboo in my book.

>> Let's not be selective.

I am not.

>> The argument of seculars is that the Danish catroonists meant to provoke but M F Hussien did not. That Taslima meant to provoke but Vinod Mehta did not. That the knighthood of Salman Rushdie meant to provoke etc etc.

You can have peaceful protests against anyone you think provokes you. But no vandalism and no fatwas!

>> You and I react to the provocation by posting something on the website. The MIM and SS chaps react by vandalism.

Huge difference. What you and I do is perfectly legal. What MIM and SS chaps do is criminal.

Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
92
Chanakya,

>> And rights have to be exercised equally without any partisan attitude or bias.
>> Freedom of Press also means exercising the same standards in commenting on similar issues.

You pulled these out of your hat, did you? You are confusing freedom with fairness. Freedom of speech includes freedom to be biased and freedom to be wrong. If there is any question of malicious libel against an individual or an organization, that should be resolved in a court of law. Fairness and truthfulness should be highly valued by responsible journalists, but that is a different question from the question of freedom of expression.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
91
Mr. Chanakya writes-

“Is that so? Is that what Freedom of Press & speech are all about? As it is oft mentioned, rights are not absolute, they come with responsibilities too. And rights have to be exercised equally without any partisan attitude or bias. When Outlook chooses to exercise its right as a double standard (or even triple standard), then they are being plain irresponsible.”

Freedom of press & speech is about freedom to speak on topics of one's choice. When and how partisan attitude and bias are banished in the exercise of free speech/press? If Outlook is irresponsible, then the price they pay is broken credibility not broken glass or broken bones. The former is their own making, but the latter are the making of your thuggish friends that you are eager to defend.

“It is not the exercise of free speech, its the irresponsible exercice of free speech that would constitute sufficent provocation. Some people may go to the court, some people may resort to vandalism. In the Shiv Sena's case it is the second. And in many other cases too - like the Danish Cartoons, Taslima Nasreen, Salman Rushdie etc. And to be PC, in M F Hussein's case, that Gujarat paintings etc.”

When free speech is exercised irresponsibly, proper response is either responsible or irresponsible counter-speech. However, provocation is a transparent ruse to nullify the right with violence of threat of it. Going to court is legal but resorting to vandalism is illegal. Shiv Sena’s choice to break the law makes them criminals. Your morally equating a legal act with an illegal act means you are no gold medal winner in logic.

“Again as for your labourer analogy, I would say the same thing - exercise freedom of speech responsibly. Or face the consequences.”

Are you willing to face the consequences of being drowned in the ocean because some official in dubai subjectively thought your analogizing Muhammad with Hitler is “sufficiently provocative” and not a “responsible exercise of free speech”? After all, you used a Muslim ISP to post such “provocative” comment.

“We are not telling him to do this and not do that. The question is, would he dare to. After all, as someone who is gung-ho about Freedom of Press, he should apply the same standard to all situations.”

What standard he applies or dares to is his business. His right to apply double, triple or even quadruple standards is strictly protected and defended by the law. That’s what makes it a right, genius.

“Freedom of Press also means exercising the same standards in commenting on similar issues.”

Since when? From where is this principle derived?

“Maintaining silence on some issues (because the consequences would not be pleasant) and upping the ante on some other issues does not constitute choice. Its opportunism.”

It is still a choice. Whether it is opportunism or not is a matter of interpretation. Even if it were clearly opportunism, still it is not illegal. But vandalism and assault are.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
90
Jash writes:
“OKAY GUYS,HERE IS MY LITTLE EXPERIMENT ABOUT FREE SPEECH THAT OL SUPPORTERS ARE BASHING SENA FOR. TWO CAN PLAY THIS GAME OF FREE SPEECH.”

I doubt it.

“IF Modi and BAlasaheb are Hitlers then the moms of the following jihadi teammates are whores”
“The moms of AUGUSTUS,ALLHAD SATHE,PEAR, PARTHA AND CAPTAIN VINOD M are all whores.All the individuals mentioned were born to jihadi whores.”

Jash’s mom applied but lacking the minimum number of teeth to qualify, her application to be a jihadi whore was turned down. She went back to her village disappointed and conceived Jash.

Looks like your little experiment blew up in your face, you son of a wannabe jihadi whore. Nevertheless, there is no broken glass, no threats, no violence, no shiv sen goons. Just you, the proud owner of a newly reamed asshole courtesy of yours truly, and free speech.

Gus
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
89
Mr. Jash? Did I say I am against going in Mosque and arresting Muslim preachers who teach hatred? Again you loose your cool, I said that it is duty of law who should arrest those people who teach hatred against India (or here in USA against USA). But, people should not take law in their hands. Is outlook talking against India? They are writing about a person who they feel is spewing hatred. And law should be equal. If it is not, tommorrow it is for Hindus in India (like it is only for Muslims in almost every Muslim country), tommorrow it will be for Dalits or Brtahmins, where it will stop? A killer or a rapist is a guilty before law even if he belongs to BJP, Muslim League or Christian party. I agree that Outlook overlooks some Muslim leaders who preach violence against Hindus or Talisma. But that is their fault. I am not defending them for that. But I told you the dangers of other Hindu extremist if they take over are same like Muslims fundamentlist in Iran, unless you like wearing Kurta Pajama and your spouse wearing sari. Today it is dress code, then it is moral code then what Manu Smruti? Do you want Hindu religion backward like Islam or you want India to compete with modern technology with Japan or USA?
alhad sathe
Kendall Park, USA
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
88
Mr. Jash, I did not forget that Rajiv Gandhi is responsible for those riots, but I can't blame every politician of India, Can I, in a couple of sentences? When I mentioned law and order for everyone or for every community , I thought educated (?) person like you from USA would understand? But, Alas your hatred has made you stopped think rationally.
alhad sathe
Kendall Park, USA
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
87
Mr. Chanakya,then you must be against Salman Rushdi ot Taslima, since they hurt Muslims for their views. Their opinion should not be published also. In that case nobody should say anything against anybody. You should not say anything against rapist or child abusers since they have freedom to do whatever? Where is your freedom to publish stop? Who decides, some hooligans? In your hatred for one community, you or people like you have forgotten that there is one thing which is very precious in a democratic institution which is LAW & TRUTH. It should be upheld against anyone who destroys property, whether he or she is Muslim or Hindu, black or white. Kaputo? For the same reason, people involved in Bombay blast should be punished and people who murdered Rajiv Gandhi or people who rioted after his murder or people who are involved in Godhra or people who killed thousands of innocent Muslims (or Hindus in Kashmir) in Gujarath including Narendra Modi. Pray for that law & order; not for what to write or not what to write in press. You don't want bloody Hindu Iran, do you? Where someone will decide for you as a Hindu you should not eat beef or wear only certain clothes and believe in all Hindu rituals?

Atleast I will die for my Free Press, How about you Mr. Chanyka or likes of you?

alhad sathe
Kendall Park, USA
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
86
Ghulam says: "Chanakya,

Whether an editor has double standards, or a single standard, or triple standards has nothing to do with whether his office can be vandalized by those who disagree with him. If you do not agree with his views, you have the freedom to not buy his newspaper, or not go to his website. You also have the freedom to express your contrarian views, however retrograde they may be."

Exactly. So no vandalism, no fatwas, no 51 crore bounties on Danish editors heads, no ban on books, no beheading "Gustaq-e-Rasools" etc.

Let's have all of these and then we can talk about freedom of press. Let's not be selective.

The argument of seculars is that the Danish catroonists meant to provoke but M F Hussien did not. That Taslima meant to provoke but Vinod Mehta did not. That the knighthood of Salman Rushdie meant to provoke etc etc.

You and I react to the provocation by posting something on the website. The MIM and SS chaps react by vandalism.
Chanakya
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
85
Azeem Taqi says:"Chanakya ji.
You have got it wrong. The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) certainly did not have the same views on Jews as did Hitler.In fact, Christians, Muslims, and Jews are cousins in faith, all Abrahamic faiths as Jesus, Mohammed, and Moses are all descendants of Abraham. Kya Chanakya ji, you have the name of such an intelligent man and one of the greatest Indians ever and you speak with such lack of knowledge."



Well Taqi saab, the cousins do not seem to get along well do they? What with one set keen on wiping out the other.

A search on the net is repletes wih references to the Prophet's sayings about "killing all non-beleivers wherever you find them", or how "Jews would be turned into pigs and apes etc" are surely no different from what Hitler though about the Jews.
Chanakya
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
84
Augustus AAA, welcome to the debate. Are you sure you're not that chap called Naheed who used to post from your same city? YOu sound terribly like him (and terrible too).

Anyway, here's what you say?

"Outlook exercises its right to publish a cartoonist or an author claiming Thackeray is a villain."

Is that so? Is that what Freedom of Press & speech are all about? As it is oft mentioned, rights are not absolute, they come with responsibilities too.

And rights have to be exercised equally without any partisan attitude or bias. When Outlook chooses to exercise its right as a double standard (or even triple standard), then they are being plain irresponsible.

"Mr. Chanakya’s brain must be getting fried in the Dubai sun."

Is it hot outside? I did not notice. BUt then, let's not get personal, shall we?


"According to Mr. Chanakya, exercise of free speech constitutes sufficient provocation to condone violence."

It is not the exercise of free speech, its the irresponsible exercice of free speech that would constitute sufficent provocation. Some people may go to the court, some people may resort to vandalism. In the Shiv Sena's case it is the second. And in many other cases too - like the Danish Cartoons, Taslima Nasreen, Salman Rushdie etc. And to be PC, in M F Hussein's case, that Gujarat paintings etc.

Again as for your labourer analogy, I would say the same thing - exercise freedom of speech responsibly. Or face the consequences.

Its like saying this "historical character" married a 9 year old. Or its like saying that this "historical character" was a paedophile. Both statements more or less would imply exercise Freedom of Speech. One is non-provocative, the other is.

"May be or may be not. However, Mr. Chanakya telling him what to do and what not to do misses the core idea of freedom. Somehow, I am not surprised by that miss."

We are not telling him to do this and not do that. The question is, would he dare to. After all, as someone who is gung-ho about Freedom of Press, he should apply the same standard to all situations. But does he - No!! And would he? That's something for him to answer.


"Freedom of press also means freedom to choose what to comment on and what not to comment on."

Freedom of Press also means exercising the same standards in commenting on similar issues. Maintaining silence on some issues (because the consequences would not be pleasant) and upping the ante on some other issues does not constitute choice. Its opportunism.
Chanakya
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
83
Do you call yourself a Human Being, Uber. A Human Head or for that matter any Head is not a Football. Grow Up.
Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
82
The Broad Canvas is, Mr. Ganpat Ram, that Ninety Nine Per Cent Of The World's People Is Good. This applies to Animists, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and what have you.

Consider watching the Panel Discussion on Geo, Pakistan or N. D. T. V., India and do not forget to watch the B. B. C. World T. V. Programme on Pakistan. Both these Programmes will educate you about us.
Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
81
The Normal Distribution applies, TABS, to all Peoples, Religions, Nations, Sects, Castes, Groups. There is alway a Extreme or Fringe on Either Side Of the Bell.
Most People are Normal whether Animists, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Muslims or what have you.

It is unfortunate that so many Hindu Extremists have Congregated in this Forum.
Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
80
OL deserves this.
you can do propaganda in whichever way you wanted and how much ever anti-national that could be, but please not with the tag of a Neutral scribe.
There are some people out there still confiding in you as Neutral.

MF Hussain for your kind information is not scared off out of the country, but is ABSCONDING from our Judiciary on various defamation cases and Modi is a democratically elected CM in a fastest developing state of the Country.


http://protestnudebharatmatha.blogspot.com/

Narayan
Zurich, Switzerland
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
79
This list of "heroes" and "villains" indicates the politics of judges rather than any balanced judgement. Azharuddin as bad as Bhindranwale? What are Messrs Mushirul Hassan, BG Verghese and Mukul Kesavan smoking? The said gents seem to lack the basic ethical perspective to distinguish between a cricketer who submitted to the lure of mammon, and a terrorist who plotted the killings of thousands of innocent people!

Our learned "judges" must have picked on Azharuddin an an after-thought, embarrassed by the manifest obviousness of their prejudices, and therefore feeling the need for another Muslim name (apart from Dawood's) to fill a secular quota. Cement-scandal Antulay could have been a villain, but he is ruled out because he is a member of the Congress government. Murder-accused Taslimuddin could have been one too, but he has to be excluded for the same reason. Our Railways minister qualifies eminently for the wonderful work he has done in Bihar, but he is super-secular, and must not be offended. Newspaper editors could have been named as villains, for all the crawling stunts they performed during the Emergency, but they are of the same "caste" as Verghese's and hence should not be delegitimized. (Verghese himself quietly left Hindustan Times rather than stay on and fight). And interestingly, Sanjay Gandhi is named as villain, presumably for his Emergency role, but his mother is crowned a heroine!

I don't set much in store by "top-10 lists" and "top-10 lists of top-10 lists" and "top-10 lists of worst ever top-10 lists" and other such twerpish exercises, but for their sheer imbecility, the lists prepared by Outlook ought to take the cake.
V Rajan
Chennai (Madras), India
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
78
Your bark is getting repetitive.
pear
mumbai, India
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
77
"These self-appointed guardians of morals and public sentiment have done great disservice to India’s image at a time when it is testing the waters of the big league."


http://www.hindustantim...e=India+Intolerance+Inc
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
76
Initially Shivsena started during the partition of Bombay state into Gujarat & Maharastra. From its inception violence was part of Shivsena. Mr. Thackeray recruited thugs from street corners who later became Shivsainyak. First it was Gujaratis who suffered lot. Business and home were looted. Than it were south Indians. Later it was Muslims.

Ironically our politicians were in bed with this thugs including BJP. There is hardly any separation between politicians and thugs in India. Congress had that element also. I remember 1947 riots where innocent people lost lives.

I am skeptical that there will be any action taken for Outlook vandalism incident by police or congress ministers. Heaven can help India.
Praful R Shah
Houston, USA
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
75
Shivsena targets south Indians, Biharis, upites and generally all non maharashtrians.
MY HEART BLEEDS FOR VICTIMISED MUSLIMS.
MY HEART BLEEDS FOR THE CONGRESS, SONIA, QUATTROCHCHI, MANMOHAN SINGH.
MY HEART BLEEDS WHEN SAINIKS ATTACKED OUTLOOK OFFICE.

ON THE OTHERHAND I HATE JEHADI HINDUS LIKE JASH, SAM.
AT THE MOST WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO ME? YOU WILL USE CHOICEST GUTTER LANGUAGE AGAINST ME.
I AM IN THE AUGUST COMPANY OF INTELLECTUALS LIKE VINOD MEHTA, ARUNDHATI ROY, BARKHA DUTT, SAGARIKA GHOSE, RAJDEEP SARDESAI ETC.
YOUR SURROUNDINGS MUST BE REELING WITH VERBAL POLLUTION.
pear
mumbai, India
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
74
Iam no fan of BAL Thackrey.And I don't like his chauvinistic politics.But to say that he is amongst the biggest villians this country has ever had and comparing him with the likes of brindalwale etc. would be terribly unfair.
Outlook has no right to malign him in this manner.
shriprasad
hyderabad, India
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
73
Both the attack on Outlook and on Taslima are attacks on freedom of speech. In that respect they are similar.

Another important respect in which they are similar is that they are both illegal.

The government should ideally take a strong stand and give Tasleema permanent residency. However, Indian political situation panders to each communities worst instincts. Tasleema will have to live with 6 month extensions while the Sena monkeys will get away with it without any consequences at all.
vijay
Chennai, India
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
72
"'Its been a waste of time and I am sure many posters will feel the same.""

Baba ji

No need to be dejected .Dear Faruki will be loosing a valuable debator and we will be missing some lively skirmishes too .CARRY ON BAB JI !
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
71
Jash:
>>
There are key differences between TASLEEMA and SENA.READ MY post from yesterday.The former fell into the public domain with mlas saying they are muslims first,and demands on behalf of a religion for deportation and murder in a nonislamic country.
>>
Well! to me the distinction is not very clear.

Facts -1:
I do not remeber exactly what tasleema calls muhammad, assuming she calls muhammad something very bad and then gives her logic (lets not dwell on the merit of her accusation).
A section of muslims are outraged because anything against muhammed is sacrilege to them, issues a fatwa, and recently in India she was attacked.
We are outraged at the act of vandalism... and rightfully so.
Some of the muslim argue the act of attacking her should be avoided but she should be driven out of the country etc etc....
And to say the least, I am not impressed by this argument too.

Facts 2:

Outlook calls balasaheb a hitler incarnate, and has some logic behind it (lets do not discuss the merit of such accusation, at the moment).
A section of hindus are outraged, and attacks Outlook office in Mumbai.
These hindus consider balasaheb to be next to god (SAM wrote so in this forum), or their most loved leader, and maintains any criticsm of balasaheb will be dealt severly.

I do not see where's the difference, except that the warring parties are different. Both shows intollerant views and a severe lack of the capacity to accomodate differences in opinion. And hence their protest gets violent.

>>
Here it is a private defamation case and reaction to it between 2 private parties
>>

The distinction between private and public is not very sharp.
Outlook is a part of Indian media, though is a private property but its bussiness is to deal with public issues (whether you agree with the opinion of its editorial board is another matter). Balasaheb is the head of one political party which was in power (in maharashtra) in not so distant past. Therefore balasaheb is a public figure. Balasaheb the person is almost of no significance to anyone, but Balasaheb the head of Shiv Sena is defnitely important to the people in Maharshtra (directly) and indirectly it is important to the whole of India, because of its presence in NDA.
Evaluation of Balasaheb will always be madre in the public domain.

So this public vs private argument is not very clear.

And secondly, even if its between private parties,
is the use of violence & generating mob frenzy acceptable to you?

And to the question of anyone calling me a hitler....., ha! ha! ha! well! that person has to be immensely stupid. People who know me, will vouche that I am not so, infact far far from it.
If anyone calls me so, I do not sure what I will do...if I know that person is of some importance I will ask him to substantiate, if he cannot I might call him a stupid or a moron, or if there is a possibility I might sue him, or I might just
ignore him/her completely.
I have too many important things to do in life and cannot waste my time on some idiots.
Indranil
Kolkata, India
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
70
I think Ganpat giving up is a bad sign. For all the accusations that can be made against him, he seemed to be a sincere person at least bothered about the state of Muslims. It is better to remember that it is not the active backing but the general apathy of majority of people willing to speak that abetted and caused many of the horrific events in human history. Probably Muslims like apathy on part of others towards them. Where this will lead to them in the future is very uncertain.
Akhil
Chicago, United States
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
69
Jash/Chitra,

>> U are the best advertisement for the hopeless character of jihadis and ur 7th century barbaric religion.

So you are back for your shift to spew venom in this forum! I could sense the stink even before I saw your post!
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
68
Ganpat/Bagai,

>> I think people can look at the broad canvas of
the world, and decide which countries and people are tolerant,peaceful, violent and intolerant.

A historical perspective is better than taking just a cross section. Europe, the Middle East, India and China have been the most violent, although in different centuries. Other regions are not far behind.

Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
67
What is the problem with Muslims on this forum? They won't reform or develop and all the time want to tar others with their petty mind. A political group wanted to create mischief and prove their stupidity to public and they did it by attacking a media outlet. What exactly is the religious component here? Where the idiots defending the honor of a religion or prophet or that of a just mortal human?
These Muslim creeps should be kept out of any liberal public debate until they learn manners and gain basic understanding of concepts such as liberalism, secularism etc..

Akhil
Chicago, United States
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
66
Danish ass-licker lalit bagai has completely skirted the issue about his blood-brothers in the Shiv Sena attacking Outlook's office. Perhaps it is compatible with his oh-so-good Danish values.
This moron will not condemn his rabid Hindu extremist pals.
Tabs
Goettingen, germany
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
65
I wonder what that ahole Kalam has to say about India becoming a superpower by 2020. Yeah! Vision 2020. LMAO! As long as there is castism in India, it will remain a third-world country.
Raj
Chicago, United States
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
64
What do the rabid Hindu mongrels (lalait bagai, Jash, etc.) have to say to this? Danish values, eh!


http://www.sulekha.com/...cid=1520&forumid=851431


Hindu barbarity knows no bounds

by Varadarajan Nambiar

Black flags on I-day after Dalit son who made a UP village proud is murdered

Tarannum Manjul
Posted online: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 at 0000 hrs IST
PRATAPGARH, AUGUST 14

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/210507.html



This Independence Day, there are black flags all over Bhadevra in Pratapgarh.

Anger is boiling over, a fortnight after the first Dalit boy from the village who got into a professional college was killed allegedly by upper-caste men.

Villagers say Chakrasen Gautam was killed because he was a Dalit and because he made it to the Institute of Engineering and Rural Technology in Allahabad.

The police first named a dead man as prime accused, arrested two Dalits after the villagers protested. The two accused, Santosh Mishra and Akash Dubey, are still absconding.

It was a journey of hope and hard work that was cut short. Chakrasen was 22 and he was doing his BA while preparing for his Uttar Pradesh Technical University entrance exam. He worked to pay for his education and was killed when he came home to take money to pay his fees in the engineering college.

“He was one of the most brilliant boys in the village and spoke English as good as any city-bred boy,” says the village pradhan, Shivnath Yadav.

Chakrasen was murdered allegedly by Mishra and Dubey when he went for a morning walk on August 1. Both Dubey and Mishra and the Gautams have been fighting over a PDS shop for ten months. “They could not bear the fact that a Dalit became the ration shop owner instead of them,” says Shivmurti Gautam, 70, Chakrasen’s grandfather. “They often used to forcibly take foodgrains from my shop, would not pay and would sell it in their shop at a higher rate,” he says.

When Chakrasen heard about this, he said he would come to the village every month to oversee the sale and ensure that every villager got his PDS quota. “Santosh and Akash often used to fight with bhaiya for this,” says his youngest brother Shaktisen.

The family says they got even more angry when he got admission to the engineering college. “Santosh and Akash threatened me that Chakrasen would never be able to become an engineer,” says his mother Rajkumari, who struggled to bring up the children after their father’s death.

Chakrasen was tied up, dragged and stabbed with a screwdriver and beaten with sticks. When his family heard about the incident, they rushed to the spot. “My brother took the names of Santosh and Akash before he died,” says Shaktisen.


The family alleges that the local police is trying to shield the accused. They named Matadin, who died five years ago, as main accused and recorded Santosh’s father’s name as Ram Narain Mishra instead of Hriday Narayan Mishra. They arrested two Dalits after the protests from locals but Mishra and Dubey are absconding.

When contacted, Director General of Police (DGP) Uttar Pradesh Vikram Singh said that the accused will be arrested soon. “We will issue non-bailable warrants against the main accused and if they are still not caught, we will offer rewards (for information on them). The state will not tolerate such incidents and whosoever is the accused, they will be arrested,” he said.
Tabs
Goettingen, germany
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
63
Chanakya,

Whether an editor has double standards, or a single standard, or triple standards has nothing to do with whether his office can be vandalized by those who disagree with him. If you do not agree with his views, you have the freedom to not buy his newspaper, or not go to his website. You also have the freedom to express your contrarian views, however retrograde they may be.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
62

http://timesofindia.ind...articleshow/2282200.cms


NAGPUR: A 36-year-old man slit the throat of his wife after finding that she had married their former tenant at Takli Sim on Monday night.

The accused, Kishore Nagwanshi, has been arrested by the MIDC police. Following a heated exchange with his wife Geeta (30), Kishore allegedly assaulted her with a kitchen knife in the presence of his brother-in-law Pratapchand Bansod, who later registered a complaint at the MIDC police station.

Geeta, a mother of three, had reportedly developed an illicit relationship with her tenant Anand Sakhare and eloped with him about a month-and-a-half ago. Kishore had been looking for his wife since then.
------------

As it turns out, this case did not involve any Muslim. Ergo, even Hindu society is rotten.
Tabs
Goettingen, germany
Aug 16, 2007 12:00 AM
61
Mr. Chanakya writes-

“First the media provokes them and then when they act like goons / thugs / bigots etc, the media pulls out the "freedom of press" rabbit out of the hat.”

Provoke them? Outlook exercises its right to publish a cartoonist or an author claiming Thackeray is a villain. The one who exercised his lawful right is at fault? Not the thugs who destroyed property and attempted to intimidate? Mr. Chanakya’s brain must be getting fried in the Dubai sun.

“If you throw a stone at a mad dog that is minding its own business, then dont complain if it turns back and bites you.”

Ahh, the tyranny of mad dogs.

“The ideologies of this historical character, Hitler & Thackeray are similar - if not same.”

According to Mr. Chanakya, exercise of free speech constitutes sufficient provocation to condone violence. Very well. Let’s apply that idea in another context. A contemporary character hires himself out as a labourer for wages in a foreign land to masters who venerate “this historical character.” The contemporary character, using an ISP in that land and feeding at its trough, opines that the venerated “historical character” is same as an odious historical character. Therefore, if the masters tied a millstone around the labourer’s neck and made him swim in the nearby ocean, Mr. Chanakya would be silent correct? Does this kind of throwing stones at mad dogs that bite elicit a complaint? After all, the violence was provoked by exercise of free speech and should be condoned, right? Happy drowning, Mr. Chanakya.

“Would Vinod Mehta, the defender of "Freedom of Press" dare to picture this historical character as Hitler? Or vice-versa?”

May be or may be not. However, Mr. Chanakya telling him what to do and what not to do misses the core idea of freedom. Somehow, I am not surprised by that miss.

“No, he would not. Because, not only would his office be vandalised, his personal safety would be at risk.”

What’s it to you?

“Why, he would not dare to call Rajiv Gandhi a villian for looking the other way during the Anti Sikh riots in 1984 and then justifying it by saying "When a giant tree falls, the Earth trembles".”

Freedom of press also means freedom to choose what to comment on and what not to comment on.
Augustus aaa
Pune, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
60
Shame on people who defend attack on outlook office. I think educated (??) people like Gaurav who live in USA have lost their marbles. In a democratic society everybody has a right to express his or her views, whether you like them or not. Otherwise India will become another "Hindu Iran"? Shiv sena examplifies this vision of India. This party is against Valentines's day, adores Hitler, does not like criticism of its own leaders.

Do people like Gourav realize that their opinion against outlook and Vinod Mehta (how hateful it might be)is always published by Outlook. Does Marmik and Samana (Shiv sena mouth piece) will openly allow their leader's criticism in their paper?

alhad sathe
Kendall Park, USA
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
59
Chanakya ji.
You have got it wrong. The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) certainly did not have the same views on Jews as did Hitler.In fact, Christians, Muslims, and Jews are cousins in faith, all Abrahamic faiths as Jesus, Mohammed, and Moses are all descendants of Abraham. Kya Chanakya ji, you have the name of such an intelligent man and one of the greatest Indians ever and you speak with such lack of knowledge.
Azeem Taqi
Nashville, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
58
While I donot like the way Outlook office in Bombay has been attacked, I think the magazine has itself to blame. If it is equating a nationalist leader like Balasahib with an international terrorist like Dawood Ibrahim, this is bound to happen. And then Vinod Mehta comes out as a poor victim of Hindu fundamentalists wrath. In India we have only Hindu fundamentalists. If Taslima Nasreen is attacked, no outcry nor a comment comes from the press nor from the Outlook nor from Mr Vinod Mehta.
I am also appalled by the depreciation of this article by the readers. It should open the eyes of Mr Mehta as to what the reading public thinks of him and his magazine.
P.N.Razdan
Gurgaon, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
57
Ghulam saab, you have missed the point.

I am not saying that what the Shiv Sainiks have done is right.

My grouse is against the double standards being followed by the so-called secular media.

Mr Mehta would not have the guts to call Rajiv Gandhi "a villian".

He would not have the guts to call Prophet Mohammed, who had similar views about Jews as Hitler did, a fascist, bigot, or caricature him.

He would not have the guts to print in his magazine that the Danish cartoons were "Freedom of Press".

All he has been doing and will be doing is ring the bell in the front of Pavlovian dogs and make them salivate.

And earn brownie points for himself as a martyr sacrificing himself for "Freedom of Press".
Chanakya
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
56
The article itself is biased. You have missed out the biggest quisling of all, the Imam of Jama Masjid, Ahmed Shah Bukhari. Absence of Lalu Prasad Yadav in the list of villains is a big surprise.
Balasaheb's name is always dragged in to show that one has moral highground and hence a moral authority to write anything. Also their sight is devoid of ground realities!!!.
Arun M
Bangalore/Mumbai, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
55
Ganpat/Bagai,

>> You are determined to maintain status Quo for
your community.

Islamic reform is as dear to my heart as fighting bigots. But I would not discuss Islamic reforms with an empty headed bigot.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
54
Chanakya,

If we are living in a liberal democracy, we have to follow the rules of liberal democracy. Vandalizing as a protest either on behalf of Thackerey or as a protest against the Danish cartoonist is a "no no". You can have a peaceful protest in the streets or on the radio or in newspapers. Religious dogma, be it 1300 years or 2000 years or 4000 years old is a subject that deserves its own discussion and cannot be used to dilute the concepts of free speech and free press that our Constitution guarantees. While in scriptures we may find exhortations on how to treat Jews, or Dalits or what will happen to those who do not accept Jesus, there is more than enough material in the same scriptures of a countervailing kind. But our faith in democracy and all the freedoms that it bestows needs to be affirmed in its own right.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
53
Ganpat/Bagai,

>> Check into the Hilton and refuse to pay the bill. If they throw you out , you are free to call them bigots, apatheidists.You will not get anywhere.

You are such a simpleton! I have never called the Danes bigots or apartheidists. Just you!

Hate message number 6.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
52
Ghulam saab,

I dont think we can expect the Shiv Sena chaps to react in any other way than vandalise. As per the secular media, they are goons, thugs, bigots etc etc, remember.

First the media provokes them and then when they act like goons / thugs / bigots etc, the media pulls out the "freedom of press" rabbit out of the hat.

If you throw a stone at a mad dog that is minding its own business, then dont complain if it turns back and bites you.

Anyway, that is another issue. The point I was trying to make was simple. Thackeray follows or likes a particular person because of his ideology. So Thackeray is caricatured as this person, Hitler.

As the risk of being repetitive, I am posting what I posted earlier

"Much before Hitler - about 13 centuries, there was another character, who also led his people to believe that they were the chosen ones. That they were the inheritors of the earth. And that only they would go to heaven and the rest of the sub-races (read: non-believers) would burn in Hell. That it was Ok to kill Jews. And his people believe that even today"

The ideologies of this historical character, Hitler & Thackeray are similar - if not same.

Would Vinod Mehta, the defender of "Freedom of Press" dare to picture this historical character as Hitler? Or vice-versa?

No, he would not. Because, not only would his office be vandalised, his personal safety would be at risk.

Why, he would not dare to call Rajiv Gandhi a villian for looking the other way during the Anti Sikh riots in 1984 and then justifying it by saying "When a giant tree falls, the Earth trembles".

It is high time he got off his pedestal and stop making this brouhaha about Freedom of Press etc etc.
Chanakya
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
51
Rahul:
>>
well done u guys deserve that.. if u calle their leader hitlar that's what happens u sonia sttoge news portal
>>

Isn't the similar levels of intollerance were shown by the people who attacked tasleema recently?
Indranil
Kolkata, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
50
Ganpat/Bagai,

>> Frankly I am amused at the attack on Outlook.
Ofcource its silly and reflects our primitive mindset.

An attempt to intimidate the press is not amusing. Ask the editor of Jyllands-Posten. He will tell you.

>> the smelly bigoted creatures whom he defends all the time. I mean the bigoted muslims.

Hate message number 2 for today from this bigot.

Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
49
Ganpat/Bagai,

>> Muslims are muslims and not Indians. They
are here as lodgers, with no loyalty to the country. The same is true for muslims everywhere.

Today's hate message number 1 from our resident bigot.

Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
48
Chanakya,

>> As per Outlook, they, being the press, are free to label people as villians and portray them as "Hitlers". And if anyone attacks them for this, then its an attack on the "Freedom of Press".

One can of course use one's free speech rights to attack OUTLOOK, but one does not have a right to vandalize.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
47
I also request Outlook to exercise some editorial control. For the sake of popularity, dont lose your responsibility.
pear
mumbai, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
46
I request Sam, Ganpatram, Hemanand, Jash etc. to think about Hindus in Pakistan and restrain while writing against muslims.
pear
mumbai, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
45
Indian idol is one fun contest. What do you think about Ankita and Deepali? Ultimately it may be between Amit and Emon or even Prashant.
pear
mumbai, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
44
I spoke about Indian Education in the Context of your Filthy Mind, SAM.
Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
43
Just as with Followers Of All Religions, TABS, Hindus can be rabid extremists and more. Was Shivaji, a Non-Hindu.

Mr. Ganpat Ram is blinded by hate as is SAM, whose venom is, not surprisingly, directed against the Editor. He need a Course in Social Mores and Religious Practices as he beleives that Circumcision leaves a Circumcised Male with a Cut Penis. How sad that Indian Education is so bad that it could not create balance in its students.

He also seems to know about the Bedroom Activities of the High And The Mighty.
Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
42
Is it freedom of press for Outlook to publish an article on Kashmir saying that it is occupied by Indian forces?is it freedom of press for outlook to publish articles portraying hindhu dharma in the poorest light possible and ridiculing hindhus and their religious practises in a very obscene manner?does any one remember now how using "snake Anand"outlook published a number of baseless and obscene articles on Shri Sankaracharya the Jeyendhra Saraswathi Swamighal when he was arrested by Jeyalalitha*s govt unjustifiably?has not outlook published an article by faceless tamil writer called anuradharamanan alleging that the sankaracharya had tried to misbehave with her?is this all freedom of expression or the misuse of journalistic freedom?

Outlook is an anti national magazine.it publishes articles by Muslim jihadis disguised as Muslim intellectuals.this is all not freedom of the press but misuse and abuse of the same.
arun
newdelhi, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
41
Shame on such persons who can so openly flout the law of the land; a bigger shame on the system that allows it.
GS Arora
Budapest, Hungary
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
40
Physical goons attacked verbal goons. Big deal. Just one of those myriad little tamashas that take place in a big country like India on a daily basis. That august body called "Editors Guild" is twsting its knickers into a knot reading too much into this little chut-putt. "Attack on freedom of press" blah blah. We have heard that one before.

Incidentally, if a panel of readers -- not Outlook-anointed "experts" -- categorized some vocal personalities into "intrepid journalists" and "invertebrates", where will Vinod Mehta figure?
Narsing Gowd
Secunderabad, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
39
OK. So here's the question - and its been asked in this forum before too.

Outlook in playing out the attack on it as "Attack on Freedom of Press".

As per Outlook, they, being the press, are free to label people as villians and portray them as "Hitlers". And if anyone attacks them for this, then its an attack on the "Freedom of Press".

Fair enough. So what about the Danish cartoons? Isn't that Freedom of Press too? And aren't the attacks on the editor and fatwas attack on "Freedom of Press" too?

Much before Hitler - about , there was another character, who also led his people to believe that they were the chosen ones. That they were the inheritors of the earth. And that only they would go to heaven and the rest of the sub-races (read: non-believers) would burn in Hell. That it was Ok to kill Jews. And his people believe that even today.

Get the drift??

So, does Vinod Mehta have the courage to caricature this historical character, Hitler and Bal Thakeray interchangably?

This is a great chance for his to prove that he is all for "Freedom of Press". That he can lay it on the line for "Freedom, Freedom, Freedom".

Simply put, does he have the balls? We know the answer. He too knows. Can he atleast admit it?
Chanakya
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
38
Bal Thakre and Vinod Mehta were on the same side in the election of Pratibha Patil and one may excuse Thakre for feeling that Vinod is his buddy. Therefore, the Hitler act must have rudely shocked and shaken the old lion, leading to the attack on OUTLOOK, Mumbai. When even a scratch from a friend is taken as deep cut, one can sympathise with the rampaging Shivsainiks if they took the cartoon as the unkindest cut from a bosom friend.
B.V.SHENOY
BANGALORE, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
37
"Actually Bush, Cheyney and Reagan are seldom called "Hitler", because they are not blamed for any massacres of minorities in their own country. Thackerey and Modi are."

Rajiv Ghandhi is also blamed for the Sikh riots in Delhi. However, far from being called Hitler, he is among the great secular leaders in our country (obviously since no Muslims were killed in 1984 riots). In India, terms of discourse is set by the left and its they who decide who is secular and who are fascists! Conclusions are reached first and then facts are mustered accordingly. Hence Modi becomes Hitler since text books in Gujarat, originally printed when congress was in power, were found to praise Hitler during his regime!
RSM
Delhi, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
36
>> "Actually Bush, Cheyney and Reagan are seldom called "Hitler", because they are not blamed for any massacres of minorities in their own country. Thackerey and Modi are. "

Well, so was Rajeev Gandhi. He however, isn't labeled as Hitler, or made it to the list of villians. In accordance with the traditional Congress culture, to which Mr. Mehta subscribes, the Supreme leader gets only credit. The blame is assigned to the minions.

That said, the attack by the Sena (if it was by Sena) is wrong and condemnable. We all feel that Outlook is a biased magazine, usually carrying articles from people who don't know which orifice to use for eating, and which for excreting their food. At the same time, we all appreciate the open forum it provides, and use it to express our opinions. The strong criticism that most posts carry, including this one, is never deleted. Such instances of an open forum are rather rare, and need to be appreciated.

Sena had the opportunity to use such means to register their protest. It seems they are too used to their street gang ways to use them though.

The culprits need to be caught, and given exemplary punishment. Let's see if the Congress govt is up to the task.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
35
I really hope that the perpetrators are caught and put behind bars. This was a great opportunity for Shiv Sena to take on Outlook on an intellectual level but as usual these morons had to resort to violence. They need to be punished for not only breaking the law but also for being stupid!
RSM
Delhi, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
34
Dumbass Jash tries hard to justify the actions of his pals, the blood-thirsty rampaging Sainaiks. Begone, idiot. You are the lowest of the low, scum of the earth.
Tabs
Goettingen, germany
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
33
The difference between BJP and Sena is while BJP is mature, Sena is a street party. The difference between Congress and MIM is that while Congress is tolerant, MIM is extremely intolerant. So encourage national parties.
pear
mumbai, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
32
The attack on Outlook office by Shiv Sena goons is an attack on press freedom per se.Since inception, Shiv Sena has relied on arm-twisting tactics to have its way. Its role in the 92-93 Mumbai riots has been confirmed by the findings of the Srikrishna commission. Bullying is the forte of the party and its chief Bal Thakre, despite being a geriatric, is the arch bully in the country.It is a shameful episode, a brazen attempt to muzzle independent voices. No party or leader is exempt from criticism,valid or unreasonable. Everyone must have an appetite for truths that are seemingly difficult to digest.
Adnan Nawaz
Seattle, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
31
How about the following vbillains:

Shabana Azmi
Arundhati Roy
Dilip Kumar
A. Hussain, the so-called artists
Hindu secularists
Muslim terrorists
CPM, the communists

Hope your magazine will have the guts to publish this message.
USTATE20005
Columbus, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
30
Ganesan,

>> Bush is Hitler, Modi is Hitler, Reagan was Hitler(especially after his visit to Germany in 1985), Cheney is Hitler........

Actually Bush, Cheyney and Reagan are seldom called "Hitler", because they are not blamed for any massacres of minorities in their own country. Thackerey and Modi are.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
29
Faruki:

I was making a broader point. But to your argument, when did Modi praise Hitler? Yet he was also shown as a fascist reading Mein Kamph. This just proves my point that calling someone a fascist and Hitler is a liberal standard argument. Bush is Hitler, Modi is Hitler, Reagan was Hitler(especially after his visit to Germany in 1985), Cheney is Hitler........
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
28
Ganesan,

>> WHen dealing with liberals it is inevitable that at some point you will be called a Hitler and a fascist.

You make no mention of the fact that Thackeray had some very laudatory words for Hitler.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
27
well done u guys deserve that.. if u calle their leader hitlar that's what happens u sonia sttoge news portal
Rahul
Delhi, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
26
Why is Ganpat Ram/Lalit Bagai silent on this one? He barks like a rabid mongrel whenever a Muslim issue comes up. Or are the Sainiks' views compatible with his liberal oh-so-good-i-lick-ur-ass Danish values?
Tabs
Goettingen, germany
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
25
There is no doubt that the followers of Bal Thackeray are fanatics and lunatics. Thackeray feels he has the right to abuse or insult anyone he likes even former President A P J Abdul Kalam. But when he is shown his face in the mirror, he loses his calm. Thackeray is a self-proclaimed lion but only in his own den Mumbai. By the way, when was it last that Thackeray had visited North India. The self-styled protagonist of the Hindus, he never visited the Hindu refugees in Delhi or in Jammu. Showing Thackeray as Hitler, is an insult to the Nazi leader. The best Thackeray can be compared is with the late Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale. Thackeray was responsible for the demolition of Babri Masjid and he had boasted of honouring those who had destroyed the mosque. It was again Thackeray who let loose a reign of terror in Mumbai in 1992 and this is what led to the 1993 blasts in Mumbai, killing a number of persons. If a number of persons can be sentenced for the 1993 blasts, why not the persons who rioted in Mumbai in 1992.
Vinod Sharma
Ludhiana, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
24
Vinod ji, I cannot understand why you are uptight over this issue.
I am an ardent fan of Balasaheb in that I share the love of my country and,by extension, am irked by Pakistani terrorism but I believe that by attacking the 'Outlook' office, the Siv Sainiks have merely played into their hands. The reaction should have been - 'OK, you think I am like Hitler, fine. Your opinion does not mean a thing to me and I believe in what I am doing and that is all that matters.'
Azeem Taqi
Nashville, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
23
Srinivas,

>> But do you think proclaiming that he is a congress chamcha makes VM ethical?

It makes him partial, not unethical.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
22
In Hyderabad Taslima is attacked. In Mumbai Outlookindia is attacked. Action and reaction?
Now Ramgopalvarma can make sarkar3. Have you insured against vandalism?
pear
mumbai, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
21
>> Bad ideas must be defeated by good ideas. If showing Mr. Thackeray as someone inspired by Hitler was a bad idea, Shiv Sena should find a better way of showing Mr. Thackeray. The attack must be deplored by all, including Mr. Thackeray.

If Thackeray had a problem with Outlook, he is free to take it up in any court in India. Knowing his political connections, he may even win. Violence is not a legitimate means of seeking redressal. If it is not faced down right now, it will only grow.
vijay
Chennai, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
20
Outlook claimed Bal Thakeray is a villain and the old man wasted no time in proving their claim beyond doubt.
vijay
Chennai, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
19
This is outrageous. All of these religious extremists are running the country into the ground.

Civil society must close its ranks and not allow these monkeys to hide behind the "goons" argument. If it sounds like Shiv Sena and talks like Shiv Sena, then it is Shiv Sena. Everyone involved should be prosecuted. An investigation should be launched to identify Bal Thakeray's involvement. If the instructions are proven to be from him, then he should also be punished.
vijay
Chennai, India
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
18
Ghulam,

Who decides the ethics? I would not! But do you think proclaiming that he is a congress chamcha makes VM ethical?

>>That is perfectly legal. You can answer him by either rebutting his arguments, or by trying to create an "artificail constituency" for the BJP.

Well, like I told you I am not here to create constituencies for any party. Though, I will agree that I have my sympathies for any staunch non-congress party.

Legality and Ethics are different. Example: You can open a bank (ala PP) and run it to bankruptcy and claim immunity as a bankrupt person. (of course you need to show that the damn thing got bankrupt despite your best efforts) Perfecty legal but unethical!
Srinivas
Lucknow, iNDIA
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
17
What does Lalit Bagai/ganpat Ram have to say about his "liberal" pals in the Shiv Sena? Or would he argue they were just Muslims pretending to be Sena activisits, because, of course, Hindus cannot be rabid extremists?
Tabs
Goettingen, germany
Aug 15, 2007 12:00 AM
16
Yesterday when I posted my comments in response to the Villains list in another section of the online magazine, I asked whether Outlook has provided security cover to scribes working in Bombay after putting Balasaheb on the villain's list. Refering to Shiv Sena's reaction to defacing of Balasaheb's wife's statue and even before their reaction to Khuswant Singh's comments on Shivaji, I said that Shiv Sena goons would soon attack Outlook office.

But I could not believe that the reaction from Shiv Sena would be so swift and so soon.
Though a lot of Maharashtrians respect Balasaheb, and a lot of the Indians believe that he is an answer to the Islamic extremism, Bala Sheb at the end of the day remains successful as a hatemonger. He promised nothing, but allowed people to vent out their frustration through violence directed mostly at the weak and the unarmed. He started off inciting the lower middle class Maharashtrians to target non-Maharashtrians in Bombay, eventually turned himself into an incarnation of Shivaji, the great Maratha, whom people adore and then became a Hindu militant nationalist. Since neither he nor Shiv Sena believes in any debate and political dissent other than street fights , violence and vandalism is their response to any criticism. If you are frustrated about Pakistan-backed militancy but cannot fight the terrorists then dig up the pitch at Wankhade stadium before a cricket match against Pakistan. If you believe that South Indian small businesses are fairing well in Mumbai unlike Maharashtrian small businessmen then start vandalizing Udupi restaurants. If you believe Valentine's day is a bad western influence, terrorise both sellers and buyers of Valentine's day cards. Each time anyone challenged his authority violence was the response. A few years back a Marathi daily (was it called Mahanagar?)office was ransacked to teach the editor a lesson.
However in the Indian context once you are a politician, you get full immunity from the legal system in spite of wrongdoing. That also explains why in India criminals like to join politics to secure the legal immunity.
Balasaheb and Shiv Sena will reign as long as they are respected by their fans. And whichever political party is in power, nobody can touch them for their action.
Outlook has now been taught a painful lesson - you can criticize anyone, but Balasaheb .
DC
NEW YORK, United States
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
15
Could the attack have been stage-managed, to justify the inclusion of Thackeray in the villain group and to make people see the Shiv sena itself as a villainous organizn?
v.seshadri
chennai, india
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
14
In 1999 Jyoti Basu called Advani a barbarian. Vajpayee went into a frenzy, demanded apologies, BJP workers protested and Basu refused to retract what he said and there was a lot of heat. And in the end, Vajpayee achieved nothing.

If on the other hand he had just said " Basu has such a big heart that he thinks everybody is like him. But unfortunately that is not true".

That single statement would have deflated the entire issue and made Basu look like an idiot. But then to do that, you should not take yourself too seriously.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
13
And the guys in right should develop some sense of humour. WHen dealing with liberals it is inevitable that at some point you will be called a Hitler and a fascist. It is inevitable because that is the left's only argument in many cases. You cannot allow yourself to go into a frenzy everytime some one calls a Hitler. Your BP in that case will always be in the thousands in that case!!

Ronald Reagan was called Hitler. Bush is called Hitler. Modi is called Hitler. And these guys never care. They just shrug it off and move on. You react violently to those things only if your self image is so low that you depend on other's approval to evaluate yourself. I will hate to be around such a person.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
12
Vinod:
"If you know how to hit then you must be prepared to get some one return it in kind to you. "

This is not correct because attacking someone thro' a cartoon and attacking physically are two different things. If I were Thackeray and if Mehta calls me a Hitler, this is what I would do.

I would publish an ad in major newspapers with me as Hitler, Mehta as Stalin and waving the Nazi-Soviet pact with a caption "Will you join our alliance"?

That would have deflated the entire "You are Hitler" argument. Now that is hitting back for a cartoon. Not physical assaults.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
11
Srinivas,

>> there are quite a few things that are seemingly legitimate but unethical!

Who will decide what is unethical?

>> It is magazine run by a person who has sold his soul and is trying to create an artificial constituency for the Congress.

That is perfectly legal. You can answer him by either rebutting his arguments, or by trying to create an "artificail constituency" for the BJP.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
10
Just curious. When was the last time such thugs belonging either to the VHP/Sena or the muslim goons ever punished in a court of law? Has that ever happened? Has any of the cases of this kind been prosecuted to the very end?

If the answer is no, it speaks volumes about the justice system and the so called defenders of freedom who speak a lot but dont follow through. I dont know for sure that the answer to my question is no but would be very surprised if it is not.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
9
Meanwhile, the great admirers of Gandhi in Outlook can explain how one deals with such thugs when they come attacking. What exactly is the Gandhian way to do things under such circumstances?
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
8
Attacking a newspaper office, as was done by the Shiv sainiks, or a television station, as was done by Musharraf's goons, for expressing views one objects to is barbaric and a threat to a very fundamental freedom. It must be strongly condemned. I am aware that Muslim fascists are more liable to make such attacks than Hindutva fascists, and I condemn both equally.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
7
I think Vinod Mehta lost a great opportunity here. If he had been office, he could have come out with his chest wide open and said" You have to kill me before you kill secularism in India. I will gladly die fighting fascists.

Cut scene to shocked faces of the mob. Slowly they drop the weapons. They embrace the religion of secularism. And become warriors in the fight against communalism and fascism under the leadership of Mehta. Brigadier Mehta smiles with content.

That would have been an awesome story. He missed it. You need to show up in office frequently Mr Mehta or else you miss chances like these.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
6
Bad ideas must be defeated by good ideas. If showing Mr. Thackeray as someone inspired by Hitler was a bad idea, Shiv Sena should find a better way of showing Mr. Thackeray. The attack must be deplored by all, including Mr. Thackeray.

On another note, is this representative of our kind of democracy? Goonda raj? Something that otherwise happens on the streets all too frequently. Outlook just got some unexpected refresher about it - and considering that no one was hurt, some might say, on the cheap.

Jaipat S. Jain
mycable
new york, United States
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
5
Without going into the merits of the attack:

Does "Freedom of Press" mean being a stooge or a chamcha of a Party?
Does "Freedom of Press" mean concoting stories and running party campaigns?
Does it mean you can castigate anybody and everybody? (I am not refering to Thackeray episode alone...please look at Outlook history)
If Thackeray is a villain then why can't you move the courts or get him jailed by your friendly party government? Then I think an article on these lines will be justified!

That an attack is imminent will be known to anybody who is well aware of Sena(In fact thats the first thing that stuck me as I read the article). Having known this, I can only see one reason why Vinod Mehta published it: to earn a few brownie points with his masters and get a lil sympathy from the press folks. This is rabid demagoguery indulged in by VM.
Srinivas
Lucknow, iNDIA
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
4
These idiots dont even know whom to attack and whom not to attack. Now we have to the see the spectacle of Outlook portraying itself as a victim and being "brave". Ram Sena (ie the monkeys) have more brains than Shiv Sena.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
3
I am not surprised.
pear
mumbai, India
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
2
Why they left Vinod? I dont understand! What are they going to get by breaking glass door etc...They should not indulge in cheap stunts instead they must only target the Vindo who is the real villain.
Ram
Kerela, India
Aug 14, 2007 12:00 AM
1
The Shiv Sena monkeys believe that if you do not like someone, you can engage in violence. Tells about the culture and "civilization". "Garb say kaho, Hum Hindu Hain" LMAO! Where is the difference between the fanatic mullahs and these fanatic monkeys?
Raj
Chicago, United States
COLLAPSE COMMENTS   
Post a Comment
You are not logged in, please log in or register
ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SUBSCRIBE | ADVERTISING RATES | COPYRIGHT & DISCLAIMER | COMMENTS POLICY