R. Prasad
opinion
Hamare Paas...
The south's socio-cultural edge over the north has root causes
It's not a new idea. But if the four south Indian states were to refuse any more to bear the burden of the 'backward north', confederate themselves and secede from the Republic, you might actually have a new coastal superpower in the region. Yet it is curious how the north for so long assumed an infallible superiority in the 'north versus south' diatribe, given that southern indices in human development, living standards and cultural density have been way beyond the backward ones of the bimaru states.
 
 
Till now ridiculed in popular culture, the 'Madrasi' has acquired a new identity, glamour.
 
 


The 'south' is now recasting itself on the map of the subcontinent in an entirely new way. The 'Madrasi', till now a figure of ridicule in popular culture and Bollywood cinema, seems to have acquired a fleshed out identity and an unprecedented glamour.

Chennai-based choreographer Chandralekha used to have a jocular way of dealing with north India's all-too-familiar jibes about the alleged cultural conservatism of south India. She used to say: "Consider this case. A popular actor/chief minister dies. His wife and his concubine contest his legacy and fight the election. The people vote the concubine as his heir. By what yardstick do you call this cultural conservatism?"

The south's claims to cultural plenitude needs to be considered more carefully. Chronologically, Mohenjodaro, Harappa or Dholavira might pre-date Poompuhar, Mamallapuram or Kodungallore by millennia. Yet, the wave upon wave of invasions, war and plunder seem to have also brutalised and coarsened north India's civilisational edge.

In comparison, the south has had a more sedate passage with palpable historical and cultural continuity. Almost everyone in bygone ages--Greeks, Sumerians, Phoenicians, Syrians, Romans, Arabs and early Christians and Muslims--seemed to land first along the southern coastline of the subcontinent, but without occupational or imperial intent. They also contributed to the forming of a fascinating comity of coastal confederations which, in turn, spawned the incredible cultural expansion of the Pallava, Chola and Vijayanagara dynasties right across South-East Asia.

Any cultural audit today will find the south's supply side column bloated--its diversity of languages, scripts and dialects, an astoundingly rich cache of musical forms and dance-theatres, a treasure house of architectural innovations, the highest per capita literacy, the largest readership of newspapers and periodicals, and the greater density of poets and writers, translating into the largest number of Jnanpith award winners.

Some influential firsts include the first armed uprising in free India (Telangana), the first elected Communist ministry (Kerala), the most radical poetry movement (Sri Sri's 'Digambara' movement) and the first rationalist's association of Gora, all of which influenced the self-sustained 'new cinema' movement (in Malayalam and Kannada).

But the new boom in southern economy powered by the IT bonanza, while throwing much floating capital into the market and creating the ambience of a quantum leap in, say, cultural or artistic goods, has hardly contributed to the infrastructure of facilities or freedoms within which such activities can progress. I have myself written extensively about the primitive conditions here under which artists work and show. Despite an exploding constituency of rasikas at the annual Chennai season, showcasing 2,200 plus performances across 45 days, there has been a steady institutional collapse of cultural showpieces like Kalamandalam, Kerala, or Kalakshetra, Chennai--which are now on artificial respiration. The art village, Cholamandalam, no longer represents avant garde or even fringe art.

As agriculture collapses in the South, the rice bowls of Thanjavur, Kuttanad, Godavari and Mandya have slowly turned fallow. Inevitably, the sumptuous culture they spawned would begin to tatter and fray too. Much of the contemporary South is being overtaken by rampant consumerism and the marauding culture of the Punjabi diaspora in dress, food and TV serials.

However, all is not lost. In the famous 1970s film, Amitabh Bachchan sneers, "Merey paas bangla hai, gaadi hai, paisa hai; tumhare paas kya hai?" Shashi Kapoor primly retorts, "Merey paas maa hai!" Today, in the South we would preen and say, "Hamare paas Rajnikant hai".
 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Oct 17, 2009 11:38 AM
30
You prefer to stay a cow worshiper than a monotheistic believer.
Finious
Toronto, Canada
Jul 15, 2007 12:00 AM
29
Ganpat/Bodepudi,

>> I have read French and Danish poetry, and its simply far ahead of Urdu poetry.

Only an idiot can make such a naive statement.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Jul 14, 2007 12:00 AM
28
Of the four Southern States, Tamil nadu is water starved. Every year, the TN Government has to go to Delhi to request the PM to put some pressure on Karnataka to allow some water down the Cavery to save the standing crops in the state. If there is no Delhi, then Karnataka would dehydrate Tamil Nadu to make it a barren desert. Andhra Pradesh too, would not lag behind Karnataka if they want to show their mite. Kerala and TN CMs are not in speaking terms now over some water dispute. Even if the other three states want a Dravida nadu, Karunanidhi, the only living DMK Leader who made loud noise in forties and fifties for independent Dravida nadu, would now vehemently oppose such a move and cling to the North.
T.Sathyamurthi
Folsom, United States
Jul 14, 2007 12:00 AM
27
You know, at first I was very feeling very pleased with all this "oh, the south is it!" kind of pieces seeing as I'm from Madras, but then I figured out the double speak.

"the wave upon wave of invasions, war and plunder seem to have also brutalised and coarsened north India's civilisational edge." - the south has had fewer muslim rulers and therefore it's less brutal and coarse. is that even called hinting? or is it pretty blatant. It's just the new hindutva rubbish: "oh you know, we southerners have never been ruled by muslims, so of course, naturally we're more civilised and cultured and MORE PURELY HINDU" - and pat yourself on the back.

what rubbish! this is just a twist on islamophobia or a sly way to feel smug about hindu cultural superiority. Now *that* is a southern train I recognise all too well: pretend to be modest while preening your feathers. and make sly (false) innuendos against northerners (read, muslims) - oh those crass uncouth invading barbarians - so uncultured - (lets just pretend that there is no taj mahal or itmad ud daulad and forget that urdu poetry ever existed).
Arul Francis
Clayton, California
Jul 14, 2007 12:00 AM
26
Sandy, as at this moment in time, Mr. George W. Bush is a greater tyrant than the late Mr. Saddam Hussain as measured by the number of deaths initiated by each. Let us not get beguiled by what the Western Media dishes out. However, to be fair to it, for every Fox there is an N. B. C.
Joseph
Karachi, Pakistan
Jul 14, 2007 12:00 AM
25
Confederation of the four Southern States to secede from the Indian Union? Don't you know that the four states are always at each other's throat on every issue? There is no love lost among these four. Tamils are hated by the other three. They would rather confederate with the North than with the Tamils. See Karunanidhi! The man who once said," Dravida nadu else funeral cemetery" is now so close to the North he hated once than to any of the three other Southern States. Indian Union would not be broken and South would see to that.
T.Sathyamurthi
Folsom, United States
Jul 14, 2007 12:00 AM
24
"Mahakavi Sri Sri was a trend setter"

I hope so. Will learn more about this "trend setting" thing.
chaitanya
chennai, India
Jul 14, 2007 12:00 AM
23
It's the collective self help women groups of rural andhra pradesh, who will contribute in making sure the state is not disintegrated(most of the cries for separate telangana and coastal andra are from feudal oriented men). Telugu people have come under one banner after more than 1800 years. I wish to see the ap experiment last.
chaitanya
chennai, India
Jul 14, 2007 12:00 AM
22
"I consider Gadar as the greatest living revolutionary poet on earth."

Gaddar is a scumbag. Guys like him make Andhra look like it's few centuries behind. Morons. "Maoism" seems like a screwed up ideology when China itself has moved on from such garbage. The real thing happening in Andhra is grassroot women empowerment without much noise and hype. Andhra needs to focus on constructive ways to improve lifestandards of it's people instead of pampering guys like gaddar, who wear rags and beat drums for a living.
chaitanya
chennai, India
Jul 14, 2007 12:00 AM
21
This article is at th front page???

Come on outlook, there are people dying, getting killed in scores, politicians taking bribes, foetus being killed, dowry, caste politics being played everywhere in the country


And you are putting up an article about how great / bad south north divide is???

Who the heck is the editor of this website???
Rhapsodizer
India, India
Jul 14, 2007 12:00 AM
20
Chaitanyaji,
From time to time Telegu revolutionary writers have influenced many people in India and abroad. Mahakavi Sri Sri was a trend setter ... I consider Gadar as the greatest living revolutionary poet on earth.
Saraswathi
Zurich, Switzerland
Jul 14, 2007 12:00 AM
19
Papa: The 'south', generally, refers to the erstwhile composite Madras state, perhaps with some associated princely states. Modern Orissa doesn't really fall under that, although, I see no reason to segregate the state from, say, Andhra Pradesh, seeing as it is that 20% of the state's population is Telugu.

The article's point was in _per capita_ terms; while there are problems everywhere, there is absolutely no doubt that in per capita terms, the south is doing far better than the north. Mumbai and Pune don't really belong to the north; Pune, for instance, as much as Deccan as Hyderabad.

All in all, while I do find it too much of a bother to cleanly pick the south away from the north - Hyderabad, for instance, historically has had more Urdu/Hindi-speaking people than people speaking Dravidian languages - it is nevertheless a statistical certainity that the four southern states are waaay better off than their northern counterparts.
Akshay
Hyderabad, India
Jul 14, 2007 12:00 AM
18
"There is no use denying Muslim conquerors' penchant for erasing the monuments of non-Islamic civilizations if at all practicable. This is a reality about the so-called Muslims, who are usually no more than Islamists in disguise."

Correct. Muslim Arabs even tried to destroy the pyramids, then gave up as it required too much effort. But the Bamiyan Buddhas were not so lucky. In all the Muslims countries the pre-Islamic history is seldom taught ..and that too in it is depicted in dark lurid colours ..is any Paki taught about Mohenjo Daro, Harappa , Gandhara and Taxila? Same with the Arabs elsewhere. Only the Iranians are to some extent liberal when it comes to cultural matters. But not any more. Not certainly under the Ayatollahs.

Islam is, I am sorry to have to say it, an uncompromising, unforgiving,religion obsessed with violence and will not brook a different opinion.

Look at the Muslims who have migrated to the West now demanding that "nude" advts not be placed in the vicinity of mosques. Ditto shop selling alcohol and pubs. Veils in schools a must -even for teachers (this is too good -So coy!! No celebration of Christmas !!Prayer rooms in Univ' . Halal food in canteen .Demand loudspeakers in their mosques as soon as they ghettoise a neighbourhood. Muslim taxi drivers offload passengers if they find they are carrying booze with their shopping. Or pork. Supermarket check out attendants will not scan pork products. So filthy – may be defiled. Soon the goras will have to flee their own country - or drastically change their lifestyle. Any surprise then when the Aussies refused to take a boat load of Afghans a few years ago? Gave money to tiny island of Nauru to take the future Jehadis. Note: these “refugees” never went to Saudi Arabia –which has ample space and dosh – and of course is the guardian of the Holy lands.

I like the Aussies. They are as tough in governance and policy as they are in cricket.

In India, to commemorate Aurangzeb, you have a vista in the most posh area named after the Mughal bigot. (For Babar there is a side street in upscale Connaught Place / Bengali market.

Will Baghdad name its main boulevard after Bush (or Blair) for getting rid of that tyrant, Saddam?
sandy
Mumbai, India
Jul 13, 2007 12:00 AM
17
I dont know how this became a Hindus Muslim thing, but then on these forums, everything eventually becomes so.

In anycase, I see two valid cases we can consider:
1. The Muslim rule in North India had negative impact on growth there.
2. Partition had a negative impact there.

Item 2 should consider Punjab and Bengal. One state that was affected by partition has done very well and the other not so well.

For Item 1, it really depends on what you consider. If UP is contrasted with Maharashtra, the we can say Muslim rule had a negative impact. If Delhi is contrasted with Orissa, then we can say Muslim rule had a positive impact.

Ultimately, it is clear that there are many factors unrelated to Muslim rule that are affecting growth in modern India. The biggest contributers are probably feudal structures that existed in these places and how the British sought to consolidate it.

The Hindi heartland and Bengal mostly had Zamindari system. The South and Maharashtra had Royatwari system. Punjab had Mahalwari system.

Zamindari system perpetrated the worst kind of feudal mindset on the society and these societies have more trouble than others in breaking out the the cycle of violence and exploitation.
vijay
Chennai, India
Jul 13, 2007 12:00 AM
16
Ganpat/Bagai,

>> Can any one dream up of any worthwhile legacy that they left behind.

Since your ignorance is ineradicable, I shall not even try.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Jul 13, 2007 12:00 AM
15
Ganpat/Bagai,

>> Your world is devided between angels and demons.

Attribute to me only what I have said in my posts.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Jul 12, 2007 12:00 AM
14
Arun,

>> is called a classic escapism of Farooqui.

For those who do not want to understand, yes.

>> you lecture and sermonise on all topics under the sun.but when it is a question hussain and his nasty paintings you dont have an opinion!

I have written many times about the Hussain issue also, including saying that if a majority of Hindus clearly say that such paintings are offensive to them, they should not be painted. Hussain's paintings however have been admired for over 50 years. He painted one more such painting after promising that he would not do so, and I criticized him for that. But your requiring me to say what you want me to say about Hussain is like (and I think I told you this before when you were posting with a different ID) the Bajrangi goons catching Muslim boys in the street and forcing them to say "Jai Ramji ki!".
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Jul 12, 2007 12:00 AM
13
Arun,

>> read Arnold Toyanbee*s world history.

As I have said before, the "gora" historians have to find ways to cover up the mass murders and genocides carried out by Christians from the 16th century right upto the 20th. Toynbee is certainly more reputable than Durant, but they all copy from each other.

>> dont try to dfend the undefensible.

What I said was that Muslim conquerors were no different from other conqurors in Asia, Europe, Africa and North and South America.

>> converted to islam at the time of your forefathers by the power of the sword.

This again is revisionist pseudohistory. Most of the conversions were made by sufi pirs, not by conquering armies, and Dalits of the time did not need swords to convert them.

Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Jul 12, 2007 12:00 AM
12
Ghulam farooqui,
you say that the muslim conquerers of india were no different from the conquerors of other countries.read Arnold Toyanbee*s world history.he has vividly told that there is no parallel to the barbarisim perpetrated on india and indians by the muslim invaders.any number of well documented and research books are available to prove my point.remember they are all written not by sanghis or knickerwallas but by your sophisticated american and european historians.could you find a parallel to aurangazeb who imposed jisiya on hindus just to allow them to remain as hindus?did he not kill his own brother dharashaik because he has attempted to study religions other than islam too?the brutalities of ahmedsha abdali and alaudin khilji are blood curdling and chilling.they destroyed universities burnt down whole villages and took thousands of women as slaves.tippu sulthan perpetrated untold sufferings on hindus and converted many to islam at the point of sword by 'drawing up targets".the mughal invader Babur deliberately destroyed the birthplace of shri rama and raised a mosque on the razed building.aurangazeb demolished shiva temple at kashi and krishna temple at mathura and built mosques in their premises.but all this real history has been not told to the indians deliberately by the nehru gandhi clan who have been ready to do anything for muslim votes.

so dont try to dfend the undefensible.dont try to whitewash the genocide indulged in by the muslim invaders and dont plead for them just because they too were muslims like you.and remember farqqui,since you have migrated from india to us many generations before you too should have been a hindu but who should have been converted to islam at the time of your forefathers by the power of the sword.so dont disown your forefathers though you all might have been become muslims due to force or fear of being killed
arun
newdelhi, India
Jul 12, 2007 12:00 AM
11
Ghulam farooqui,
when you are straightforwardly asked whether hussian*s actions in drawing paintings of hindu gods and goodesses in nude are condemnable you say many hindus too admire his paintings!this is what is called a classic escapism of Farooqui,and there is a deliberate design in this madness.you lecture and sermonise on all topics under the sun.but when it is a question hussain and his nasty paintings you dont have an opinion!you know for any ordinary human being nude paintings especially the figures venerated by him would surely produce revulsions and hurt their religious sentiments.for example hussain himself has "clothed all the muslims when he painted them".but he has deliberately painted hindu gods and goddesses in the nude.and your refusing to take an opinion on this is surely an indirect way of supporting hussain.hussain himself has said that he would paint in the nude anybody whom he does not like.this was said by him when he painted hitler in the nude.so it is crystal clear that he has not liked the hindu gods and hindu goddesses and deliberately painted them in the nude.but you refuse to condemn this shameful and deliberate assault on hindu dharma and hurting of religious sentiments of crores of hindus by taking a meak refuge behind hindu supporters of hussain!and you call others bigots when in actual practise that label suits you the best.you are just a sophisticated muslim fanatic .while the jihadis and theirsupporters defend islam quran and it*s violent teachings in the crudest possible way you do the same thing in a sophisticated way .that is the only difference in approach.but the aim is the same.
arun
newdelhi, India
Jul 12, 2007 12:00 AM
10
Arun,

>> on each and every sundry topic on this forum you have been giving your opinions whether called for or uncalled.

Many people do that. It is a problem only if the opinions expressed are not to your liking.

>> you are meticulously picking up criticism,on, islamic terrorism,,jihadi terrorism ,etc,and are overtly and covertly defending them.

Show me one post where I have defended terrorism. If you can't find any, admit that you lied.

>> when hussain paints hindu gods and goddesses in nude you dont have an opinion.

I have no expetise in art, but know that he is held in high regard in the art world. If I had supported him, that would not have made me a bigot bacause many of his admirers are Hindus. I have praised Rushdie's works here several times. If you denounce Hussain's art, you have a perfect right to do so, but if you want to impose your opinion on others, that is fascistic
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Jul 11, 2007 12:00 AM
9
Ghulam,
on each and every sundry topic on this forum you have been giving your opinions whether called for or uncalled.you are meticulously picking up criticism,on, islamic terrorism,,jihadi terrorism ,etc,and are overtly and covertly defending them under the mastery of your flowery english language.but when hussain paints hindu gods and goddesses in nude you dont have an opinion.you would take cover under judicial prouncements!what a hypocrite you are.and to call others as bigots at this rate is bigotism at it*s worst to say the least!
arun
newdelhi, India
Jul 10, 2007 12:00 AM
8
Ghulam Faruki:

it is a fact that unlike other conquerors, Muslims went to fantastic lengths to destroy the artistic and architectural heritage of India and also used ruthless pressure often to convert people to Islam. People did often convert voluntarily, as I have often stated here.

There is no use denying Muslim conquerors' penchant for erasing the monuments of non-Islamic civilizations if at all practicable. This is a reality about the so-called Muslims, who are usually no more than Islamists in disguise.
Parbat Laldeng
Denver, United States
Jul 10, 2007 12:00 AM
7
Arun,

The behavior of Muslim conquerors in India was no different from the behavior of conquerors throughout history in all six continents. The revisionist pseudohistory of the parivar, garnished with some gora sycophants is a fraud perpetrated for political and communal motivations.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Jul 10, 2007 12:00 AM
6
farooqi,
nobody denies that Muslim invaders came to india and inflicted untold atrocities on men women and children and looted the country and converted people of india to islam at the point of sword.the unimaginable savagery these muslim invaders had indulged in india has no parallels in the rest of the world history.they were brutes and canibals in the form of humans.blood curdling true tales were written about the barbaric deeds of the Muslim invaders by Muslim historians themselves.but such facts and figures are not of any concern to bigots like you.infact bigots like you would honourably try to whitewash all the sins of the Muslim invaders becasue they too were muslims like you and the rest.one has to only read the R.C.Majumdar*s Indian history to know the real canibals and barbarous tribes called Muslim invaders.Surely such history is not denied.
arun
newdelhi, India
Jul 10, 2007 12:00 AM
5
Ganpat/Bagai,

>> This forum would be harmonious without GF.
India and the world would be more peaceful without--- It is an ugly statement to make. But imagine how things would be without the 1,3 billions plus Joseph.

Hitler is reborn!
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Jul 09, 2007 12:00 AM
4
Shiva/Bodepudi,

>> changing the names of towns bearing the nams of hated Islamic oppressor.

Why not alter history and deny that Muslims ever came to India? That should satisfy lunatic bigots like you.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Jul 09, 2007 12:00 AM
3
It's great that you mention about GORA. He setup the first known Atheist Center of the world in Vijayawada(where atheist conference is held every five years and attended by several Europeans and others from across the world) when the word itself was anathema to rationalists and humanists across the world of early 20th century and he insisted on staying with local "untouchable slum" wherever he was invited for a public meeting. And stayed away from politics, completely. That explains why he is mostly unknown. You are right that Sri Sri's poetry is extremely radical(especially Maha Prasthanam) for a telugu poet, or a poet of any other language. The telangana armed uprising has mainly to do with Nizam rule and the oppression it caused. But i am not sure how these events influenced the self-sustained 'new cinema' movement (in Malayalam and Kannada). Maybe something to do with Malayalis and Kannadigas in general being more literate and inclusive than us telugus, most of whom, leave rest of India, they got no clue about their culture. That goes for me too.
chaitanya
chennai, India
Jul 09, 2007 12:00 AM
2
South is progressing better than the North. But let us not try to divide India any further. It is already being divided for petty gains by politicians and the media. The media is run by people who are never impartial, they have political inclinations and mostly they behave like loyal political workers. They are interested in making more and more profits and market and being in the good book of ferocious Mullahs is their last aim. Money and power is driving force for our intellectual journalists. If some of them become really truthful , he/she will be "slaughtered" by the "mainstream" media. By honesty alone one cannot survive in Indian politics and same is the case with Indian media.
jaleel
luknow, India
Jul 08, 2007 12:00 AM
1
>>"refuse any more to bear the burden of the 'backward north', confederate themselves and secede from the Republic"

Another example of OUTLOOK's attempts to 'divide and destroy' India ? Because of financing from those who have never forgiven India for her feedom ? "aasethu-himaacala" is one country; those who try to divide it may not succeed, but only end up provoking greater waves of unification. Even now, youngsters from UP, Assam etc are thriving in IT in Chennai and Bangalore.
As they grow, they will ensure the unity of India.
v.seshadri
chennai, india
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