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Controversy
'Naachne Gaane Waali Aurat'
So what's the song and dance all about? Why is that instead of being felicitated for the honour bestowed on her, Shabana Azmi finds herself in the middle of a controversy? What did she really say about the veil? And what are her critics going on about?
It was a moment of glory for Shabana Azmi as she became the first Indian recipient of the prestigious International Gandhi Peace Prize, after such luminaries in the past as the Dalai Lama and Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

"I am truly overwhelmed and humbled to receive the covetous award. My joy on this occasion has been doubled because Vanessa Redgrave, who has been my hero for many years, both as an actress of immeasurable talent and a woman of tremendous courage who has stuck her neck out of for her political convictions and issues of human rights and social justice, has consented to give me the Award," she had said in her acceptance speech at the House of Commons in London.

"Terrorism is being equated with Islam," she had pointed out: "This is both unjust and untrue. Myths are being perpetuated in the name of religion. Islam resides in more than 50 countries in the world and takes on the culture of the country in which it resides. So it is tolerant in some, liberal in some, extremist in others".

"The fight today cannot be between the Christian and the Muslim, the fight cannot be between the Hindu and the Muslim—the fight needs to be between ideologies—the ideologies of the liberal versus the ideologies of the extremist. The liberal Muslim, Christian, Hindu on the same side against the extremist Muslim, Christian, Hindu on the other," Azmi said in her Gandhi Memorial Lecture 'Non-Violence Is Possible'.

She also spoke on the condition of women in India: "It is true that in India, women on one hand are moving from strength to strength, on the other we also have to confront the horrific violence of female foeticide. It is ironic that a country that worships its women as goddesses also devalues its girl child - denies her access to equal opportunity and is even denying her the right to life. We must put an end to this violence now."

But that was not all. She was confronted with a question on the current veil controversy raging in Britain, and her answer was very simple:

"The Quran speaks about women wearing clothes to cover her modesty. A woman is supposed to cover herself to be modest. She does not need to cover her face. A time has come for a debate on the issue"

Later, in India, when asked to clarify what exactly her views were, she said that while she thinks that the Koran does not explicitly ask women to cover their faces, and they should not be forced to do so as it prevents social interaction and hampers communication, and that Muslims too need to evolve with the times and adapt given the context and situation. She stressed that for many people, wearing the veil could even be a way of protest against the British policies post-9/11 and that many may just want to make a point of asserting their distinct religious identity. She also took pains to point out that for her issue was that a compulsion of any kind should not be allowed, that no one should be compelled to wear or not wear a veil, and that in addition remarks such as Jack Straw's would make even her to want to cover her face not under one but three veils, just to register her protest.

But she once again reiterated that the time has come for Muslims to debate the issue seriously. Instead of a debate, what followed were usual personal attacks. The first to lead the charge was the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid, New Delhi, and others including the general secretary of the highly influential Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind followed suit. Prominent Shia clerics and well-known liberals such as Arif Mohammed Khan and Syeda Hameed have spoken out in her favour. A sampling of some of the soundbytes:

Syed Ahmed Bukhari, Imam, Jama Masjid, New Delhi: "Who has authorized Shabana Azmi to interpret the Quran? She is not a Muslim, she is just a 'naachne gaane waali aurat' — a woman who sings and dances — and she should confine herself to her profession and must not speak on things she has no knowledge about. She does not represent the mainstream views within the community. If there is no controversy on Christian nuns wearing a habit, so why should people look for controversy over a Muslim woman wearing a veil? The Quran clearly instructs Muslim women to wear a veil, though it is always up to the followers of any religion how sincerely they follow its principles. Many of our Muslim brethren do take alcohol. But this conduct of theirs does not refute the fact that taking any type of intoxicant is forbidden in Islam. If a woman chooses to move out without a burqa, it would be considered against the tenets of Islam."

Kalbe Sadiq, All India Muslim Personal Law Board: "The Quran only says that the head of a woman and a bit of her face should be covered. There is no need to cover the whole face. There is no mention of the "Talbani purdah" in the Koran. Islam is against the head-to-toe coverings imposed by the Taliban in Afghanistan. The Surah Noor from the Quran demands of a man not to look at the face of a woman and asks him to lower his gaze to protect her modesty."

Khalid Rasheed, Firangimahali, All India Muslim Personal Law Board: "It has become a fashion for some Indian Muslims to criticize the teachings of the holy Quran."

Maulana Mahmood Madani, Rajya Sabha member and general secretary, Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind: "Only Islamic scholars can speak on such issues, Azmi has received no Islamic education, it's only proper for Muslim women to wear veil, what she has said is an offence against Islam. She is talking about a sensitive issue without authority."

Arif Mohammad Khan, former Union minister, BJP: "Islam is against compelling mankind against their will. Islam is against imposition of norms and attitudes. It only expects men and women to dress decently and not to provoke lewdness."

Syeda Hameed, member, Planning Commission: "The modesty code in Islam applies equally to men and women. Islam does not compel women to cover their faces, They are unnecessarily raising a controversy. The clamour against Shabana is an expression of male bias. Nobody bothers about the Koranic injunctions on how to dress for men. It's ridiculous, women should speak out."

Liberals find much merit in Syeda Hameed's argument that despite there being explicit injunctions on the male way of dressing too, no one seems to be interested in enforcing any dress-code on such well-known Muslim men as any of the Mumbai film industry Khans or sportsmen, but Tennis star Sania Mirza's sporting gear was picked on, just as Shabana Azmi's call for a debate has been sensationalised. It is clear, they point out, that the patriarchal clergy is fighting a desperate battle against modernity's evolutionary onslaught.

In India, so far, any sort of a compulsion has always been frowned upon, even in Kashmir, as Dukhtaran-e-Millat had found out when it tried to enforce a compulsory Talibanesque purdah on the women in the valley. There were not many takers, despite threats of serious bodily harm. Elsewhere in India too, it has been well-established that the veil has more to do with cultural or regional, and less with religious, dimensions. The traditional ghungat among the Hindu women in Rajasthan and elsewhere, or the non-observance of purdah by many Muslim women, which hardly ever elicits a comment, makes this abundantly clear. But with Shabana Azmi's intervention, it is clear that the debate over the compulsory veil for the Muslim women has come out of the purdah.

 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Nov 05, 2006 12:00 AM
19
>> "Islam does not permit such ‘art’ or pastime"

The need is to eradicate the distortions that have crept into Islam as a result of a thousand years of mullahism. Acting, singing and dancing are all honorable vocations. Actors have become chief ministers in India, and one became an American President. If the Khans can sing and dance, so can an Azmi. Otherwise it is sex discrimination, pure and simple. One does not criticize Bukhari's outspokenness, only his insistence that his orthodoxy be adopted by all.

Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Nov 05, 2006 12:00 AM
18
The comment 'Naachne Gaane Waali Tawaif ' and not 'Naachne Gaane Waali Aurat' was first made in the weekly program “ WE THE PEOPLE” of a TV News channel and the debate/program it appeared, had been preplanned by the media, (irresponsibly and without any religious leanings) to project ‘the lady in the media limelight from show biz’- Ms. Shabana Azmi, as the liberal muslim face, and Ms.Azmi, though inwardly amused, did not want to at that time and even now does not want to ward off the mantle imposed on her as it suits her.

Ms.Azmi being well read and educated, knows only to well that the very profession which she practices is looked down upon if not abhorred under the Islamic faith, and that being the case she cannot under any stretch of imagination claim to be or is the voice of muslims.

This was the point that the Shahi Imam (Bukhari) wanted to espouse but his views got marred by the hostile reception he got on the TV program he was invited to express his views, not that I hold a brief for the Imam and I must add that I have the least regard for him, but it was Ms.Azmi, who in full media glare made a personal attack on the imam by taunting and asking the Imam undemocratically to go to Pakistan or Iraq if he had that much of sympathy and that no one would cry for him and it would be good riddance to bad rubbish, forgetting for a moment that, like her, even the imam had a right to express his personal view and he was doing it ( appealing) to the muslim masses in general to rise to the occasion to ward off American threat, of course the muslim mass would have decided whether the imam was right or wrong and Ms.Azmi had no business to make a personal attack.

In the Islamic context, if one were asked to describe the vocation of Ms.Azmi, they would not disagree with the imam as the profession does involve “ nachna and gaana”. and before the advent of motion pictures, what was then existing was the mujras were there used to be, within closed doors, “ nachna and gaana” by courtesans and by certain “gharanas’ and they were patronized by the nawabs and such of those people who did indulge in the act were known as “ Tawaifs”, Of course in the modern world today the profession is now being patronized as being ‘artistic’, it is a fact that could not be denied that Islam does not permit such ‘art’ or pastime.

The Shahi Imam lacked the knack, subtlety and expertise ( & I must also say media support) to put forward his viewpoint that Ms.Azmi’s attempts to represent the voice of Muslims in India was like the “ Devil quoting the scriptures”, though I must apologize and state that the remarks made by the Shahi Imam at that time was in poor taste and could have been avoided by using different terminology but anybody watching the program though sympathizing with Ms.Azmi felt that she opened her mouth a bit too wide.
Althaf Hasann
Bangalore, India
Nov 02, 2006 12:00 AM
17
Shabana Azmi's views as provided in this article are one of the most balanced that I have seen in recent times. I support her completely. As to inconsequential people like bukhari, I would say at least Shabani Azmi can sing and dance. What talent this man has? He is not an Islamic scholar, hasn't written any scholarly book on Islam, and therefore his views should not be given any coverage (although he has a right to say whatever his stupid mind forces him to say).
Vilad
mhklersj, germany
Nov 01, 2006 12:00 AM
16
Forget the veil, why aren't we beating up the people talking cr_p about Ms Azmi is my question.
XYZ
Los Angeles, USA
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
15
Chanakya

"She may be stating the obvious, but she does it trying to sail on two boats."

I am not contesting your claim. I was just saying that for the first time in India some body has found the courage to say that it is not mandatory for a muslim woman to cover her face even according to her religion. I had posted the relevant link to a newspaper site that had published this news.

The people who are critising her are trying to impose their views on other people.
Aziz
Pune, India
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
14
Chanakya,

I too saw Straw's statement as being helpful, but if some folks read it as advocating "compulsion", they would and should react to it accordingly. A statement against "kowtowing" is astute during this controversy.

Why do seculars speak up against one set of doddering fools and not against another? Well the latter's provocations were aired only yesterday, so let us give the seculars some time to react. But speaking up on an issue inolving what some claim to be a "religious dictate" is different from speaking up on communal politics. If the response of the seculars turns out to be not vociferous enough for whatever reason, the question would still be whether demanding 100% consistency from the seculars is more important than a fledgling struggle against entrenched regressive patriarchy.

Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
13
The veil as I am given to understand is not mentioned in Koran as such. In fact my understanding is that the veil or the niqab or the Burkha originated from the Arabian countries more as a necessity than any religious dictum. The veil was more a creation to prevent desert sand from hitting the face and body while travelling in the desert. That is why even the Arabian men wear flowing robes with a headgear that can be used to cover the face. This later must have come to be incorporated into the religon by the misogynist clerics.

Similar examples are there in every religon and country. In India we have the caste system incorporated into religon as also Sati which started of more as Rajput wives killing themselves for fear of being taken as loot by invaders which was then a common practise.

I feel it is high time Muslims themselves come out against the stone age practises of the clerics more strongly. You have to take the bull by the horns and not allow them to get away with sprouting nonsense like their pronouncement in the Imrana case.
Navdeep Hans
Delhi, India
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
12
CHanakya:
"Jack Straw said the same thing about how the veil makes communicating difficult. He has not compelled anyone to remove the veil"

Jack straw is an "infidel". That more than anything determines how Muslims react to him including the alleged liberal Muslims.

But I think the "infidels" are not going to keep quiet however much Shabanas of the world plead. The conspicuosness of their sepearateness is too loud for many "infidels" to ignore. It is difficult to silence them on the plea that it gives more fuel to Muslim fanatics.

The Muslim liberals will have to work in a world where "infidels" will observe and comment on their behaviour.
Kiran
Hyderabad, India
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
11
I was wondering what kind of social work Shabana Azmi has been doing? I have never heard Shabana doing any tangible social work except for 1 or 2 occasions when she went on fast to prevent slum demolition. Other than this what else she has done for the society?

Similar to her, couple of weeks ago I read about the "Social Worker" actress Poona Bhatt. Till date I have not heard about any specific social work done by Poona Bhatt.

Can someone throw light on the social work done by these 2 actresses?
Satish
Pune, India
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
10
Ghulam

firstly, no one is compelling Ms Azmi (or for that matter anyone else) to "not wear the veil"

Ms Azmi says that no one should be compelled to wear or not wear a veil, and that in addition "remarks such as Jack Straw's" would make even her to want to cover her face not under one but three veils, just to register her protest.

Again, Jack Straw said the same thing about how the veil makes communicating difficult. He has not compelled anyone to remove the veil.

Ms Azmi is only playing to the gallery by using the "three-veil" rhetoric and nothing else. A phrase introduced lest she be seen as "kow-towing" with Straw or the West.

You ask:"Also you expect the seculars to get all heated up at the remarks of some doddering old fools?"

Yes. When they get heated-up over what doddering fools (old and young) such as Thackeray or Togadia or Modi say, I do expect them to get heated-up over what other old doddering fools also say.

I am not upset by the "secular positions" that these people have taken in the past. But I expect them and other secularists to take "secular positions" in all issues consistently and not just selectively.

If a Bajrang Dal activist said openly on TV that a woman invites molestation and rape by dressing immodestly, Ms Azmi would have ripped him apart then and there (had she been part of that discussion). She was surprisingly quiet in Barkha Dutt's discussion when many people including women said that same thing. One lady even went to the extent of quoting Saudi Arabia as an example.

If they are now involved in a just struggle, why dont they call upon their "secular" colleagues to support them? Why not elicit a statement from the Left or from the Congress. Skeptics like me are bound to harsh.
Chanakya
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
9
Aziz

as per the article, "Later, in India, when asked to clarify what exactly her views were, she said that while she thinks that the Koran does not explicitly ask women to cover their faces, and they should not be forced to do so as it prevents social interaction and hampers communication"

"preventing social interaction and hampering communication" is pretty much what Jack Straw also said.

So, if Straw suggested a similar thing, why should Ms Azmi feel so offended that she would like to protest by wearing three veils?

She may be stating the obvious, but she does it trying to sail on two boats.
Chanakya
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
8
Chanakya,

Shabana Azmi said clearly that covering of the face is not necessary for a Muslim woman, but if she was compelled or ordered to not wear the veil, then even she would wear a veil. Why is it difficult for you to appreciate what having to do something under compulsion means to a woman? Or to a man for that matter, but even more so to a woman. Also you expect the seculars to get all heated up at the remarks of some doddering old fools? Shabana Azmi and Syeda Hameed are fighting an entrenched patriarchy which has suppressed women for a long time. While you may have been upset in the past by some of their secular positions, if they are now involved in a just struggle, you could surely have found it in your heart to be a little less harsh.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
7
Chanakya

Bottom line is that according to religion covering the face is not compulsory. Shabana azmi has said it and so has so many others. What she would like to do is immaterial, In Indian context she is the first one to state this obvious?
Aziz
Pune, India
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
6
"She also took pains to point out that for her issue was that a compulsion of any kind should not be allowed, that no one should be compelled to wear or not wear a veil, and that in addition remarks such as Jack Straw's would make even her to want to cover her face not under one but three veils, just to register her protest."

Ah, here they go again. Remember when the Vande Mataram controversy was raging, Javed Akhtar said some to the effect "I will sing if the Mullah asks me not to sing and I will not sing if the RSS/VHP asks me to sing".

His wife too shares the similar logic. But what is the bottom-line - will she wear the veil or wont she? Isn't that her choice? Why should her choice be driven by comments that Straw or some Mullah makes? It's called cutting the nose to spite the face.

Shahi Imam says"If a woman chooses to move out without a burqa, it would be considered against the tenets of Islam." I hope he meant Muslim women since he did not add it in his sentence (atleast does not seem so in the way he was quoted).

As for Ms Azmi working in a movie that highlights the plight of Muslim women, would any one be courageous of embarking on such an expedition after what happened to Theo van Gogh?

M F Hussein (who has no qualms about painting Hindu Goddesses in the nude) withdrew his film when mullahs objected to a couple of verses in the songs of the film.

Shabana Azmi has come out and spoken for whatever its worth. What about the rest of the card carrying secularists? When are the Congressis and Leftists and protectors of the "secular fabric"?

If Bal Thackeray had called Ms Azmi what the Shahi Imam has called her, would the secularists reactions have been so muted (infact there are no reactions at all)?

If someone from the Saffron Brigade suggests (as Thackeray said in his paper) that skimplily dressed women invite molestation and rape, there will be a huge outcry.

But when person after person on Barkha Dutt's program (women included) suggested the same thing, there is no one ranting that it represents a medivial mind-set.
Chanakya
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
5
Well said Shabana Azmi.
She has workable ideas, we should subscribe to the idea of fight between the ideologies not between the religions.
Wunder
dubai, United Arab Emirates
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
4
Maulana Madani and Imam Bukhari want to impose their regressive views on women. They are examples of the patriarchal regressive leadership that keeps the Muslim community backward. They need to be replaced by more moderate and progressive leaders. Let me repeat that Shabana Azmi is not only an excellent actress, but also an intelligent and compassionate activist, and is a good role model not only for Muslim women but for all Indian women.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
3
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
2
Found it, here is Soniaji with the "Islamists and obscurantist mullahs" who are now busy calling Shabana names.
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
Oct 31, 2006 12:00 AM
1
>>Maulana Mahmood Madani, Rajya Sabha member and general secretary, Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind: "Only Islamic scholars can speak on such issues, Azmi has received no Islamic education, it's only proper for Muslim women to wear veil, what she has said is an offence against Islam. She is talking about a sensitive issue without authority."

Isn't Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind the outfit that Sonia Gandhi is busy getting her pictures taken with? Even Yoginder Sikand was found criticising them some months back on these very pages?

It is clear that leaders like Arif Mohammed Khan, Syeda Hameed and Kalbe Sadiq need all the support that can be extended to them. Perhaps one should consider converting to Islam to strengthening the hands of these people. I agree that Shabana Azmi is perhaps one of the best role model that Muslims and others can hope to get. She has always talked sense and I fully support her call for no compulsion.
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
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