AP
Opinion
Unsolicited Advice
Open letter to protesting students from a 'member of a failed generation': If your current demands are met, what then? Will you rest content? Will your troubles be over?
Dear Students,

It is presumptuous of me to proffer advice without your asking. Nevertheless, here goes.

Why are you agitating? We know you are against caste-based quota reservation in higher learning institutes. But is that the cause of your anger? Or is that just the immediate provocation? Look deep and search your hearts for the answer. Do you not resent, more than the decision itself, the attitude which produced a perverse political decision? More than the quota decision, is it not the political class itself that has aroused your anger? It plays callously with your future while it deceives voters with fraudulent promises. That it dangles caste-based reservation as a sop to people denied even literacy is the cruelest mockery.

Refresh your memory. Nine years ago India celebrated fifty years of Independence. A special joint session of Parliament was held. Both Houses unanimously approved an Agenda for India. Among the four cardinal aims of that agenda was one that sought to end casteism in India. The same leaders of the same parties passed, recently and unanimously, a Bill to give 27% reservation in higher learning to Other Backward Castes. With what effrontery does their practice mock their precept! That special session of Parliament ended with an exhortation to the Indian people to launch India's Second Freedom Struggle. The Prime Minister of that day, Mr IK Gujral, urged upon people to even court arrest in order to reclaim independence. Were our leaders really so stupid as to invite the people to revolt against themselves? Or were they slyly mocking us with that invitation?

Whatever it was, nine years have passed. Today, you are in the street to fight casteism. Unintentionally you are responding to the invitation to revolt given by our Honourable MPs. They should be happy. But they are not. They never mean what they say. So forget them. Focus on your own struggle. Decide what you are really fighting for. Recall Mahatma Gandhi. He was pushed from a train by a White who did not wish to share the compartment with him. That was a personal affront. But Gandhi rose above personal slight to consider the attitude behind that white man's action. He then considered the system which created that attitude. Thus did a personal incident become catalyst for a national movement.

I urge upon you to reflect. If your current demands are met, what then? Will you rest content? Will your troubles be over? You really think you can lead a decent life in an India where someone could give a written confession that he killed Jessica Lal and where the police could nevertheless try to close the case without convicting him? If the crimes and corruption in the state machinery were to be listed they would fill volumes. You have taken a step forward. Now can you step back to the status quo? Or will you follow the adventurous path which circumstance has opened for you?

I know many of you are inspired by Aamir Khan's film, Rang De Basanti. It may be a great film. But dispel all foolish, romantic notions it may encourage. Violence is counterproductive. Recently Arundhati Roy said in a speech delivered abroad that India has no democracy. The actual situation is more shameful. India does have democracy, despite which we have crime, corruption and lawless law-makers. That indicts us all. We have freedom of speech. We have freedom of association. We have fair elections. All that needs to be done is to create a national movement and organize the mass of suffering people to vote sensibly. And that's it. That would liberate India from the shackles of the rogue class that rules it. Is this too difficult? Some of us tried earlier and failed. Perhaps we lacked ability. Perhaps it was the wrong time. But you – you can succeed. You have today mass media. Never have so many known how so few rule over them through crime and corruption. In the circumstances, how, then, might you proceed?

First, deal with the issue of effective affirmative action. Policies which ignore caste divisions are not difficult to make. A distinguished economics editor, Mr Swaminathan Aiyar, has explained how by spending a fraction of the Rs 110,000 crore government expenditure on education each year, quality schooling could spread to every tehsil in the country. There are other ideas too. What you must do is to get together with students who support quota reservation. Sit with them and formulate a policy. Remember, the police mercilessly thrashed anti-quota students in Mumbai. The police mercilessly thrashed pro-quota students in Patna. The politicians will try to divide you. Frustrate them with unity. The political class is your common enemy.

After you have united, your next task must be to prepare a simple agenda that addresses the common concerns of the major segments of society. That is not difficult. It is its sincere implementation that is beyond reach of our present dishonest politicians.

Once you have an agenda there are two major groups to approach, workers and farmers. Both are being cheated. Both are betrayed by politicians. Both are ready to explode. They need sincere support. The vast bulk of workers belong to the unorganized sector. Labour laws related to them are brazenly ignored. Labour leaders and politicians appear helpless. The top executives of multinational corporations get salaries at international rates. Wages of workers are at an Indian rate. Why? Some time back bureaucrats demanded upgrading of salaries to match foreign counterparts. The Left never criticized them. When the Dunkel Draft heralding globalization was framed it had a social clause introduced under pressure of American labour. That clause sought co-relationship between first world and third world labour wages. All politicians in India, including our Marxist comrades, opposed it. The Left rants against foreign investment in India. If labour wages had increased, foreign investment would not have entered so eagerly to exploit cheap labour. By opposing the social clause of the Dunkel Draft the Left exposed its empty posturing. It pays lip service to the cause of labour. Farmers are even worse off. Suicide among them is regular because they can't repay debt!

So these are three groups that count: students, workers and peasants. If you get together, the rest will follow. Farmers and workers will listen to you because only you among the elite will be honest with them. All politicians have betrayed them.

The road ahead would be difficult. But it is unavoidable. If India is to survive and thrive, its political culture must change. The time for change has come. History beckons you. Will you answer its call?


Rajinder Puri can be reached at rajinderpuri2000@yahoo.com

 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
76

http://outlookindia.com...e=SchoolKids&sid=1&pn=1


now this is the kind of reservation we desparately need. all the resources govt is spending on reservation in professional colleges, if spent in this kind of reservation, will work wonders in 8-10 years timeframe.

i am whole heartedly for this reservation mentioned in the link ..
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
75
so old mac... ne more pearls of wisdom for us, the anti-quotawhallahs, that explain how quota will banish the maladies that afflict the current system?
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
74
Old Chimp

Regarding Vajpayee, you are wrong again.
But your hatred gets the better of you. Dont tax
your wee brain,
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Brazil
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
73
Old Mac,
I am anti-quota so i can openly say that i will go the best available doctor - irrespective of this caste. You pro-quota guys have to EXPRESSLY say that you wont go the best doctor or any doctor meeting minimum requirements or licensed and so on. Any pro-quota guy that doesnt have the gumption to say and go to the quota doctor even when more qualified doctors are around is just a hypocrite.

This is my 3rd post with the same question and i havent still got a concrete 'Yes i will go the quota doctor ONLY' or 'No' from you.
Seshadri
Chennai, India
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
72
old mac, besides the admitted mistake on my part, i am still curious about what you think of the following question that has been left unanseredd by the pro-quota camp.

the pro-quota camp rattles out a comprehensive list of deficiencies in the current system.
but fail to explain how quota is going to solve even one of those. the standard contention is that marks are no indication of skills.

i need answer to only one question.
how is admission to an elite institution going to help someone who has no foundation. even if the system decides not to go by the marks of single test, but by the marks of entire school life, it still wont help.

i look forward to explanations from pro-quota folks in general and old mac in particular. i am curious as to, if not JEE or school marks, what according to you would be the ideal cirteria for admission to, let us say for eg, IITs. i know for a fact that what you study in school and what you are asked in the tests are extensively used in the 4 year curriculum. these things are teh bacis on whihc you build.

i cannot deny the injustice and cannot undo what has already happened, but i fail to understand the rationale behind quota policy that has no checks no controls to prevent abuse.

though my writing skills may not match up to yours, and you might consider my questions unworthy of response, i still would like to hear about the solutions you have in mind instead of the oft-repeated cliched phrases of "social justice" and "centuries of persecution" and "marks no indicatior"

if you find the paras incoherent, ps bear with me. the text area is too small for efficient review.
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
71
how is quota going to change the recogniton or lack of it in india?
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
70
but why would the campions of quota regime not go to quota docs??
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
69
old mac..

point taken
my turn to apologize..
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
68
Bhushan writes:

>>the hospital indian, the doctor indian. err i dont know about his caste, but he is indeed one of the best in business


http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/sep/12pmus6.htm


“Dr Ranawat has agreed to perform the operation in India. Director, orthopaedic surgery, Centre for Total Joints Replacement, Lennox Hill Hospital, New York, he is considered one of the world's foremost experts in the area of knee joint replacement surgery.”

You think a transparent political fig leaf like flying the surgeon down from New York and having the procedure done in India covers up what’s really going on?

The same story goes for doctors from London to treat late Pramod Mahajan on a prior occasion. Concentrate on the substance, so you won’t be fooled by form.


http://www.indobase.com...abroad/c-s-ranawat.html


"Dr. Ranawat was born in Sarwania, India. He received his M.B.B.S and M.S. Degrees from M.G.M College, Indore. Dr. Ranawat moved to the United States in the Year 1963. In the United States he completed fellowships in hand surgery and rheumato-orthopedic reconstructive surgery at the Hospital for special surgery in New York. Since then there has been no looking back for this genius of Indian origin."

Genius that only became apparent outside India! 1963 is when he left India, almost 40 years by the time he did the surgery. He didn’t attend AIIMS. We don’t know what his entrance exam score or his graduation rank; apparently not "good enough" that he was reportedly passed over for a teaching position. He goes on to make his mark in an environment that can distinguish between ability and exam scores. It all goes back to the merit debate, no?

For the record, both surgeries did take place in India. But the thrust and saliency of my comment remains.
Old Mac
Wonderville, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
67
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
66
from outlooks archives..


http://www.outlookindia...23&fname=vajpayee&sid=3


the hospital indian, the doctor indian. err i dont know about his caste, but he is indeed one of the best in business
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
65
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
64
>>Err, no. His operation was performed at Beach Candy hospital in Bombay.

You have a link for that?
Old Mac
Wonderville, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
63
You get the same answer: A physician that is legally licensed and is in good standing along with the more important qualities I mentioned before. - old mac

the benefit of making assertion in the cyber world is that no one is around to verify.
like we are going to believe that this lying wretch is going to settle for some doc with "minimum qualifying standards"

bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
62
old mac you have time and again proven yourself to be ill informed, retarded moron.

first you made big but false claims about mahesh bhatt having a stake in fanaa in one of the other posts..you apologized to teh same bagai..

once more you did it.. a b vajpayee got operated at breach candy hospital in MUMBAI.
i guess you owe bagai a second apology..
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
61
>> "The Swami of Swadesh (that's Vajpayee for a dull twit like you) went abroad to get his knee replaced."

Err, no. His operation was performed at Beach Candy hospital in Bombay.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
60
Gas Bagai writes:

>>Did you not know that the father of mandalism goes to London for treatment. He feels bettter with the English doctors.

The Swami of Swadesh (that's Vajpayee for a dull twit like you) went abroad to get his knee replaced.....apparently even the "toppers" weren't good enough. You still haven't learned that tangling with me means you get bitchslapped.

>>George Orwell should have been around to write about this sick comedy.

Lord knows, you can't
Old Mac
Wonderville, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
59
Interesting article in Hindu about water management


http://www.hindu.com/20...es/2006061101871100.htm


Such stories make a strong case for promotion of diversity in educational institutes. As usual, I don't subscribe to the theory that the only real diversity in India is caste based diversity.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
58
Old Chimp

Did you not know that the father of mandalism goes to London for treatment. He feels bettter with the English doctors.

Same I think it is for others politicians who support reservation.. Paswan flew to Escorts Heart centre. No dalits here I assure you.


The real problem is that guys like you lack pride, self esteem and go after people who you envy for what ever reason.Will never help. The people in the middleclasses will find other insitutes. In fact I am damn sure that if our bright brats were to desert the IIT.s then they will just become like colleges in Bihar. Not even the dalits would want to go there.

Imagine Harward, Oxford and Cambridge with reservation for 50 % OBC, and SC, ST , muslims etc. A nightmare scenario.

George Orwell should have been around to write about this sick comedy.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Brazil
Jun 11, 2006 12:00 AM
57
Seshadri writes:

>>Will you ask for the best available doctor or someone who finished the degree in 3 more years than normal as he was from the so called OBC?

You get the same answer: A physician that is legally licensed and is in good standing along with the more important qualities I mentioned before.
Old Mac
Wonderville, United States
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
56
Old Mac,

May be i dont understand english. But that shouldn't distract the debate from the actual issue here.

I ask you the question again. Answer without using flowery language or giving new spins to it.
"Will you ask for the best available doctor or someone who finished the degree in 3 more years than normal as he was from the so called OBC?"

Again, dont give big essays or lessons in english. Please answer to the point.
Seshadri
Chennai, India
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
55
old mac writes..
"That's not what my answer says, o ye recalcitrant mule of little understanding. My answer means what I say not what you want it to mean: minimal standards prescribed by law to practice medicine"
bollocks... when you or any kith and kind require medical attention, you will undoubtedly go for the best in the business. and being best in the business is nohting but merit.

mac further asserts that "long as he meets the minimal competency requirements to practice medicine"
so you are saying that you will be willing to entrust your life with a doc with meets the minimum qualifications???
what a load of horse manure!!!

looks like an old chimp will have more sane and less "double talk" arguments than our old mac here.
you surely need a full frontal lobotomy before your reasoning power matches even that of a mule.


bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
54
Seshadri writes:

>>Anyway, Your answer basically says that you will go for merit - licensed and good standing. Thats enough for me.

That's not what my answer says, o ye recalcitrant mule of little understanding. My answer means what I say not what you want it to mean: minimal standards prescribed by law to practice medicine.

Licensure is not based on high entrance exam score or high graduating rank in medical school. It is achieved through demonstrating general medical competence to a licensing authority.

On the other hand, good standing means license has not been revoked, suspended, or cancelled due to professional or personal misconduct.

To repeat, since the recalcitrant mule doesn't want to understand, after those two are met, then the more important factors I posted before would govern my decision.

>>For a moment i thought you will worry about the non-meritorious quota doctor running out of clientele and you would ask him to perform your operation.

For the record, if your response is any indication, I have doubts if you ever "thought" in your life. Second, doctors don't have clients, they have patients. Thirdly, it doesn't matter if a doctor is quota or non-quota, as long as he meets the minimal competency requirements to practice medicine.

>>Besides, if you would make a personal choice based on good standing and license, why do you want the general public(as in colleges and emp-loyers) to make their choice based on quota? Is this double-speak?

Somebody addressed you as Professor. If true, your post goes a long way towards explaining the decrepitude status of education in India.
Old Mac
Wonderville, United States
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
53
couple of errors there in the last post..

prashant writes not quotes...

then my quote "all rich are uppercates. are you kidding??/"
should be "most rich are uppercastes. are you kidding??"

i have too much time on the hands this being a lazy weekend morning . ;-)
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
52
Prashant quotes..
"Since this depends on physical abilities the greater the pool of people sampled , the better the chances are for finding such a person (reservation will broaden the sampling population) "

we are observing the exact opposite in the fields - the educational institutions. i hate to be repetative but for your convinence the numbers once again. these are the numbers i observed in my batch of south zone REC, but are consistent with those of abhishek droila at iit kgp.
about 20% drop outs, about 60% bunched at the bottom of grade point curve with dismal scores, about 15% really good scorers.
all your ideas are for ideal world, but as the common engineering/scientific observation goes, there is a huge difference between theoratical and empirical efficiencies.

again you seem to confuse what we call in mathematical parlance "single and double implications" or "necessary sufficient conditions" when you quote " didn't mean to say all uppercaste are rich, but clearly most rich are uppercaste"... that is clearly different from most uppercastes are rich. so you will ignore the poor upper caste folks.

all rich are upper castes...are you kidding me!!!! the yadavs and chauhans and solankis are rich. infact richer than so called uppercastes. and they are going to be the beneficieries of reservations.

any thoughts??
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
51
Bhushan

In ancient Sparta newly born brats were left out in the nature for 24 hours/ The weak died, and the others joined the Spartan community.

Its not a bad idea. This practice should also be
incorportaed in India as well.

Some of the guys in this forum would not be around, but would not that be wonderful.And India would be free of BMW guys.

The constant attacks on the fit and competent is silly. Will never work. Read Darwin.

All Indians should learn to stand on their own feet. With some help. No molly coddling, heroic exhortations, and sanctimnious sermons. . Fight or die. That was the spirit of Sparta.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Brazil
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
50
Old Chimp

Where would you get your brain transplant.

In Mayo Clinic or in Bihar. I am not getting into the reservation discussion. Just asking a simple question, but expecting as usual your
usual reply.

I Mayo clinic it would be un necessary to ask for the surgeons credentials. And in the case of Bihar, I would simply not trust them what ever they said.

But I assure you , that you have nothing to lose.
even if the operation is a flop.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Brazil
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
49
Seshadri
Chennai, India
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
48
>In southern states it seems competition for reserved seats are very intense even now
No. Every year we get stats on how 1000s of engineering degree seats remain empty. Last year he figur was close to 7000.

Also, if eventually the competition and quality will come up why hasnt we seen that in state governement organisations in TN. TN is probably the first state to implement quotas. If anything, the quality and efficiency are only spiraling down. The same with central government organisations. If we are not seeing anything in 30 years then the pace of improvement is abysmally low or non existent - either way it is unacceptable.

>We are becoming a reasonably well off country
I was also of this opinion till sometime back. But i have serious second thoughts about it. For ex, you and i (we dont even know eachother and whaever we conclude will not make a change in the bigger scheme of things) have the sanity to have a debate on issues like this but the actual guys making the policy will go ahead with these things in just a nights thought. And lets not even get started on the Jessica Lals, Dayanidhi maran vs Tata, an unelected union health minister mking policy decisions and so on :-(
Seshadri
Chennai, India
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
47
Seshdri,

I think you raise a valid point whether reservation is sending the wrong message of take it easy. (I didn't mean to say all uppercaste are rich, but clearly most rich are uppercaste).

May be in the short term this might have some such effect in some states. But I think when the people realize that there is something to compete for more people will be willing to compete and comepetition will become very intense for the reserved states. I think even now general aspiration levels of all castes in India have increased tremendously and more and more people irrespective of caste wants their children to be doctors, engineers and so on. In southern states it seems competition for reserved seats are very intense even now. I really don't think the reservation is going to affect the upper castes that much as is feared. We are becoming a reasonably well off country and if it is seen that there is demand for education, and quality of students are good, more facilities of high qualities will be created.


Prasanth
Cochin, India
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
46
>The only admittance criterion to these places >are how rich you are, and yes most of these >produce uppercaste doctors.
You are assuming that uppercaste==rich. Do you really think that is just valid in all cases?

>When someone is asking for reservation no one >demands that the colleges relax the criterion >sed to award the final degrees
Most professional courses give extra time for the non-general categories to finsh the course. If iremember correctly Tamil nadu Engineering degrees had to be comepleted in 7 years by General category and in 11 years by some of the nongeneral category students.

I like your answer - but it again boils down to the fact that you will choose based on how good he or she is. You have your own set of criterea and attributes to judge and thats perfectly fine. In fact this is the natural way of selecting anything. We all make choices after seeing if something's worth it and has the necessary things we look for. This being the case dont you think it would be unnatural to make choices( be it at whatever level) based on 'where it comes from?' than 'what it is?'.

Inequalities do exist in our society and something has to be done to get rid of it. No doubt. But instead of addressing the issue the hard way, te quota system is used as a easy way out to pacify the general public and leading the needy to beleive that lot of things are being done for them.

Whats disturbing is the kind of message we are sending out through the quota system. "Hey, we know you belong to the affected category. So you take life easy. You are assured of education and job come what may". Why would a recepient of this message work hard to actually improve his abilities? The quota system is supposed to address the exact opposite of this question - how a person/family/group will gradually improve beause of quota.
Seshadri
Chennai, India
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
45
Seshadri,

I don't want to read any implied meanings in your question and will answer as if I read it and understood it literaly.

If I were looking for an open-heart surgeon I will be hoping to find a doctor who has very precise, very controlled hand movements and hand to eye coordination. Some of this depends on the physical abilities this person is born with (this has nothing to do with caste) and perfected with practice. So I would hope this person had enough opportunities to practice and was given enough information on the anatomy of heart and tested for his knowledge. Since this depends on physical abilities the greater the pool of people sampled , the better the chances are for finding such a person (reservation will broaden the sampling population)

I don't think this ability has nothing to do with how well he scored in a written entrance test and how he got admitted to the medical college. So no I won't be bothered about the caste of my doctor.

When someone is asking for reservation no one demands that the colleges relax the criterion used to award the final degrees. Just relax the entry requirements. I am pretty sure you can have a bit more confidence in the ability of medical colleges who admit students in training them and giving them enough opportunity to practice and require that all of them who get a degree from them have a minimum satisfactory competance. So if I were you, I would be more bothered about those private medical colleges that are proping up all over southern India with very limited facilities and bad training of students. The only admittance criterion to these places are how rich you are, and yes most of these produce uppercaste doctors.
Prasanth
Cochin, India
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
44
Hi Old Mac,

I would really prefer if you answer the question than call me names. If you consider the question as stupid you are free to give it a pass.

Anyway, Your answer basically says that you will go for merit - licensed and good standing. Thats enough for me. For a moment i thought you will worry about the non-meritorious quota doctor running out of clientele and you would ask him to perform your operation.

Besides, if you would make a personal choice based on good standing and license, why do you want the general public(as in colleges and emp-loyers) to make their choice based on quota? Is this double-speak?
Seshadri
Chennai, India
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
43
Professor Seshadari

I am afraid that you are wrong on one count.
Old Chimp probably needs a brain transplant before the heart operation.

For that Nashville zoo has ample facilities.
Hoeever I dont think that old chimp will be any worse of even if the operation fails, and he left without a brain.

lalit bagai
kalundborg, Brazil
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
42
Seshadri writes:

>>Prashanth, Bajjanbhai,old mac and whoever supports quota, I will ask you guys a oft asked question - When you get ill and need a open-heart surgery, will you specifically ask for an OBC doctor who came through the degree using the quota system?

The answer to this often asked inane question is: I will specifically ask for a doctor who is licensed and in good standing. However, I will evaluate myself if s/he has a good bedside manner, reputation, displays care in even small things, takes time, listens and answers questions directly, unassuming and doesn't have a chip on his shoulder.

If you still haven't got it through your thick head, I don't give a damn who s/he is or how s/he became a doctor.

On the other hand, if a general category, privileged caste, high scoring physician is an arrogant ass, doesn't listen or answer questions directly, careless, assuming, has a chip on his shoulder, has a poor bedside manner, and even with a good reputation I will tell him/her to take their medical license, their high score and piss off.

Any more stupid ass questions?
Old Mac
Wonderville, United States
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
41
Prashanth, Bajjanbhai,old mac and whoever supports quota,
I will ask you guys a oft asked question - When you get ill and need a open-heart surgery, will you specifically ask for an OBC doctor who came through the degree using the quota system?
Seshadri
Chennai, India
Jun 10, 2006 12:00 AM
40
Rajinder Puri refers to an article by Swaminathan
http://timesofindia.ind...sid-1581082,curpg-1.cms


The problem with Swaminathan's approach is that he envisages that the spots in the proposed schools will be reserved on the basis of caste. It should be on the basis of socio-economic status. Most beneficiaries of any reservation scheme based socio-economic status will probably be from "lower" castes, but having a socio-economic basis will both ensure fairness and also help in creating a caste-blind society.
lookout bug me not
mumbai, India
Jun 09, 2006 12:00 AM
39
Bhushan:

Presumably you consider yourself a Hindu.

Would you not then feel a sense of shame if foreigners found that practically all seats in elite Indian colleges were being occupied by people coming from a very small segment of the Hindus? Without some sort of quota system how can the rest of the Hindus have a chance to get to these elite colleges? It will take centuries for the educational situation at the general primary and secondary levels to improve to the point where the chances of students from all caste backgrounds was equal. You know that.

Even if for a few years the academic level of these institutions drops, this need not be forever. Lots of OBC students will be encouraged to aim for these colleges when the quota is established and they see they have a chance. So standards will rise.

Once again I ask guys like you and Navdeep Hans: Why do you as Hindus identify with the small uppercaste population? Why not tell the uppercastes to go to hell and identify with the OBC and Dalit MAJORITY (vast majority) of Hindus?

Are you Hindus?
Ramdas Bajjanbhai
Jinja, Uganda
Jun 09, 2006 12:00 AM
38
prashant,

i dont think that i was being defensive. for i have nothing to loose on this forum!!!
all i did was point out to you that everything you accuse us (all those in disagreement with you) applies equally well to you too.
and i never realized that the spirit was free advice. for me it was just expression of opinions - admittedly strong in my case, and ofcourse some attempts at sarcasm.

i cant comment on bagai's comments. i agree with him, in principle, that communism/socialism is flawed so dont dispute it. though i dont quite agree with his diatribe, who am i to object?

this dislike for socialistic principle stems from the fact that, unless voluntary, any attempt at socialism will degenrate into evil communism that we witnessed in russia, cambodia and a whole bunch of other failed states. the poor always remain that and the formerly well to do are also reduced to pits. in essence, "make everyone equally miserable".

voluntray form will evolve only when the the majority of masses have sufficient to spare after taking care of themselves. the scandinavian model that bagai often quotes, is such a voluntary model. the working classes pays about 40% in taxes which provides for free health care and school education. this only because the 60% affords them a comfortable to luxurious lifestyle.

in india, where working people have barely enough for themselves, it ridiculous to expect sacrifices from them. with capitalism, if those loosing out wont be able to blame others. while in forced socialism, they will always have others to blame, wtih good reasons. all this besides the fact that the capable would have no motivation to improve, knowing that his rewards will anyways be snatched for redistribution.
case in the point - defections always happened from soviet side and not to the soviet side.
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 09, 2006 12:00 AM
37
Bhushan,

There you go again, all defensive. Since the spirit of this column is unsolicited advice, and I was trying to give this to one too many people (and trying to have a bit of entertainment too) and it seems none of them want any from me. Boo-hoo. You seem to have taken offence and Lalit Bagai after reading it also seems to have taken offence and is going on about commies in Kerala and how he doesn't care for them. The bunching of all the names was a mistake on my part (you have to admit some you have the same talking points and same way of expressing them). I am not good with profile making or anything, it was a joke I started which I could not finish and seems to have ended horribly.. Still you have to admit you have a tendency to call anyone who doesn't agree with you a commie, as if this is the baddest word in the world and a person once called this will be shamed to go to Gunga, take a holy bath and come back chanting the glories of Hinduism, evils of Islam, wonders of merit, joys of free markets and so on..
Prasanth
Cochin, India
Jun 09, 2006 12:00 AM
36
prashant,

if your last write up is in response to my plagiarized post, then i can hurl the same question/accusations back at you.
besieds mocking others, who dont quite agree with you, getting personal and virtriolic, it has been a long since i have seen a good post from you either. personalized jibe at the bagai bloke, then asking if me, him and a whole bunch of others are one and the same etc.. these are no value addition to the forum.
and i am not too quick in arriving at conclusions.. i have been reading yours and others posts for quite sometime now, long enough to get a good idea of what train of thought people follow. the saem arguments, whch applies to me and everyone else. besides, its a binary choice here.. non brainer.
so you can save the energy on blaming.. you are no different from me or neone else in this forum. except for the ideology.

i have no qualms admitting that i have seen some nice writing from you.
your post regarding bagai bloke was not adding anything besides entertainment value for you and those sharing your thought.
i dont give a rats ass whether or not you write your analysis on me. though i am curious as to what someone lke you, with strong commie ideology would think of some one like me, an inveterate capi..
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 09, 2006 12:00 AM
35
Bhushan,

Would you tell me an idea that you had while spending time on this forum that is interesting and worthy of discussion? If you comeup with that we will have a fruitful discussion on it.

You seem too quick to come to conclusions regarding the beliefs of others who disagree with you. Actually, I know I am very good at this. But I need to read something the other person writes and how he comprehends something that is written by others. Since you gave me demonstrations of both on this forum, I have developed a profile of you. It is not very flattering and I don't want to reveal it here. But if you believe spending time on this forum have purposes other than just sheer entertainment value (such as knowing what you are good at, how to argue a point, what are the different points of view out there etc.) I will be happy to tell you what I think of you.
Prasanth
Cochin, India
Jun 09, 2006 12:00 AM
34
yegjatly... good 'ol mac has got it right.. clap clap clap.

looks like everyone in the commie camp have too much time on their hands.. since they cant shout "inqilaab zindaabad" in the cyber space, they constructively use their time, refining their spellings... keep up the good wrok comrades..
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 09, 2006 12:00 AM
33
Prasanth writes:

>>Am I the only one who feels that there is one person on this forum who replicates himself in many different ids? Lalit Bagai, Abhishek Drolia, Moz, Bhushan and many other ids seem to be the same person with too much time talking to himself. More experienced forum members, could you give some information on this? This forum is getting boring due to this.

You're erroneously including Moz in that group. I don't think they are the same. Their writing styles are different (along with their spelling abilities), different areas of focus and different method of argumentation.
Old Mac
Wonderville, United States
Jun 09, 2006 12:00 AM
32
Gas Bagai writes:

>>Whineing like you have done, does not say much for you. Eg I dont read Old Mac, Nits and several others. And neither do I read you .
LALIT BAGAI
KALUNDBORG BRAZIL
05:08:35PM (IST)

>>Try and be brief.
>>You write a lot of rubbish reflecting your woes and troubles,the cause of which we are unaware.
LALIT BAGAI
KALUNDBORG BRAZIL
05:20:44PM (IST)

So, @ 5:08:35PM IST, you don’t read me along with others. Yet, in just 12 minutes after, @5:20:44 PM (IST), you advise me to be succinct (which is always great advice) and I write a lot of rubbing reflecting one or the other…

Did you change your mind about reading my posts or were you lying?

As I said, Denmark is a haven for hashish, hardcore porn and hate groups. We now have a basis to conclude you are atleast 2/3rds Danish.
Old Mac
Wonderville, United States
Jun 09, 2006 12:00 AM
31
My my prashant, now you are getting personal with bagai.. i will repost your comments with slight changes.. hope your work is not copyrighted. even if it is, dont sue me...

Prashant,

It is time you have a confessional about this violent hatred of yours towards the hardworking middle class. What was it? Tell us the real reason. Did you get beaten up by a Middle classer in the past, or was it a snub from a beautiful Middle classer girl to your noble approaches when you were younger and wilder with a romantic streak? You can unburden yourself of all these resentments by letting it all out of your system. We (at least I) will provide a very supportive environment with no more awkward questions asked .

You may have no idea what wonderful benefits you may be missing by not having one less hatred burning in your mind, and one less peeve rotting within. That rose in the garden will smell much sweeter, that curry that you like to eat will taste way better, you will have a deeper more refreshing sleep...shall I go on with many other wonderful benefits? Yes, brother there is a much better world out there. You only have to open your heart and mind to the possibilities.



bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
30
Lalit Bagai,

It is time you have a confessional about this violent hatred of yours towards Muslims. What was it? Tell us the real reason. Did you get beaten up by a Muslim in the past, or was it a snub from a beautiful Muslim girl to your noble approaches when you were younger and wilder with a romantic streak? You can unburden yourself of all these resentments by letting it all out of your system. We (at least I) will provide a very supportive environment with no more awkward questions asked .

You may have no idea what wonderful benefits you may be missing by not having one less hatred burning in your mind, and one less peeve rotting within. That rose in the garden will smell much sweeter, that curry that you like to eat will taste way better, you will have a deeper more refreshing sleep...shall I go on with many other wonderful benefits? Yes, brother there is a much better world out there. You only have to open your heart and mind to the possibilities.
Prasanth
Cochin, India
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
29
To all rightists, centrists and the left

I am for a western Scandinavian type of welfare state, with freedom, equal opportunities for all. And with religion being a private matter .

The reason I am against Islam is based on Denmarks experience, which has shown that muslims want religion in the driveing seat. No harm in that they practice it in their own countries. Neither am I against Vooddo being the faith of Haitians.

Thats it in a nut shell. Muslims are fine, but they complicate matters in secular, democratic societies.

By the way Denmark can afford a royal welfare
system because there are a large number of people who work hard, in order to get the things they prize,

India, especially Bongoland and gods own country Kerala will never get the Danish welfare system.
People are more interested in that no one should do well, never mind if the result is that all do badly.
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Brazil
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
28
When you have got the ink that has soaked into blotting paper out of it, then will caste disappear in India.
Ramdas Bajjanbhai
Jinja, Uganda
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
27
Trying to eradicate casteism is like removing the difference of Catholics and Protestants among Christians and Shia and Sunni and other classes among Muslims.
We should ignore "casteism" as such and concentrate on reducing POVERTY,Illitteracy,injustice to the weaker sections of our Society,irrespective of Caste or Creed.
In Australia we have aborigines,in New Zealand we have the Maori tribe,in Canada and both the Americas our name sakes Indians and other indigenous people.Nobody has tried to bring equality among the white occupiers and the indigenous people.
Similarly we should not try the irrelevant but concentrate on National Development based on POVERTY ALLEVIATION,removal of illitteracy etc.
Some people think that politicians are a cynical lot and one cannot expect anything better.Where there is a will there is a way.There is power among the people f India.The only thing required is that they be united.
Some people are content that we are better than Pakistan etc.We should aim for something much higher and achieve it.
For a nation which got independence only about 60 years ago,we have done well.
But there are threats from outside,especially the religious variety. We should be wary of those and try to achieve,what our freedom fighters hoped to achieve,namely,a prosperous India.That means a prosperous Indian people.
K.V.Sadasivan
Bharuch, India
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
26
lalit,
is it old mac that you refer to as old chimp? i get confused ... cos all you tell this old chip applies perfectly to old mac as well...


and old mac,
who exactly are you refering to as "pampered progeny" ??? the middle class, for which every day is a struggle? would you care to explain your rationale for such a categorization of middle class? as far as i can see, the middle class is the least pampered. i wont say persecuted, but certainly not pampered. it has been left to sturggle for itself. no sops, no freebies, no free seats.

it is teh progeny of those who avail the quota, and want more quotas for their progeny that is pampered. unfortunately you seem to be one of those. i admit to being presumptious here.
would you also care to explain how the quota is going to benefit those who are indeed barely literate (amongst the quota folks, excluding the small percentage of brainy kids). it is very much like the hindi proverbial "gifting a comb to a bald person"

bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
25
Puri

A cry of dispair.

Never mind. Nil desperendum.

BTW there is a funny Danish song, which sung in Danish is a real pearl.

Life is not the worst that we have.

And soon the coffee will be ready.

lalit bagai
kalundborg, Brazil
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
24
Old Chimp

Try and be brief.

You write a lot of rubbish reflecting your woes and troubles,the cause of which we are unaware.

Privileged people have positions which are sometimes unreasonable. Disadvatged people have similar problems. It may be better to ignore the extremes.The middle path is often the most sensible,

However we are delighted that despite all your
handicaps you have made it to Nashville zoo.
How about giveing tips to friends how they can do as well.

And stop your eternal BMW. Stop complaining.
India is a troubled country and you are well out of it, and so am I, but lets us retain our concern and affection for it. And despite all the corruption, babudom, its a wee bit better then Pskistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and Afghanistan.

Thank god for small mercies.

lalit bagai
kalundborg, Brazil
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
23
Prasanth

You are really a one and only.

If you dont like reading me, it takes just a click on the mouse to pass me by. I certainly dont give a damn either way

As I pointed out that there are two group, and with the same opinions. You are on the other side. Dont debate with us, and ignore our messages.

Whineing like you have done, does not say much for you. Eg I dont read Old Mac, Nits and several others. And neither do I read you .
lalit bagai
kalundborg, Brazil
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
22
prashant,
that is generally the accusation people resort to when they are either left with nothing logical to say or when they face many individuals with similar view points but you are reluctant to come to terms with this fact.
i will only be too happy to take it offline with you. just send me your email id and i would even be willing to give you a courtesey call. if you have any doubts, please feel free to email me at mesniper@rediffmail(dot)com.
since i dont watn my regalar mailbox spammed, i will reciprocate from my that once i receive your email on this id. and if you want to expedite the verification process, feel free to send you fone number..


bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
21
Am I the only one who feels that there is one person on this forum who replicates himself in many different ids? Lalit Bagai, Abhishek Drolia, Moz, Bhushan and many other ids seem to be the same person with too much time talking to himself. More experienced forum members, could you give some information on this? This forum is getting boring due to this.
Prasanth
Cochin, India
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
20
A criticism of caste based reservations by an OBC student.


http://www.indianexpress.com/story/5957.html


It kind of reinforces some of the points I raised in one of my earlier posts. That while casteism is a reliaty in India, it is much less prevelant in cities than some people would like others to believe.

I went to IISc for my post grad studies. It is one of the most diverse institutes in the country. In most other institutes, the majority of students are from surrounding areas. IISc has a very diverse population (both amongst students and faculty) in terms of regional distribution. In several other aspects though, there was very little diversity. Almost all the students have an urban background, and are largely middle class. In my times at least (over 15 years ago), bicycles were the norm, and the round trip journey home for holidays was done in trains in the second class.

Those supporting caste based reservations shall not want to accept this, but most students didn't know each other's caste. I am in close touch with so many friends from my hostel years, and after all these years too, I don't know their caste, and they likely don't know mine.

Therefore I feel that caste based reservations in such institutes is wrong and counter productive. It shall only reinforce an identity most people there don't care about.

The government (though I hope that it shall be the governing body of the institute, with a nudge from the government, if required) can legitimately claim that there should be more diversity in IISc and other institutes (though it should ultimately benefit the students and the institute in achieving its objectives). Such a change should result in people from different backgrounds joining the place. Maybe, by enforcing more people from a rural background, or from economically backward regions/family. Replacing a student with his clone just because he has a different caste certificate does not contribute to diversity.
Al Bundy
San Francisco, United States
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
19
Mr Puri it appears to me what you are looking for is a "revolution" of the "proletariat". They didn't seem to have worked in the past. Also, the search for "nice people", "true leaders", etc. are all theoritical and most likely elusive.

Somehow I think the answer lies with a middle-class, especially the professional variety, that is relatively independent of government in their day-to-day affairs. May be it's just hope .... anyways Mr. Puri as usual your articles have a motherhood-applepie feel to them and usually unrealistic other than highlighting an obvious issue.

It is true that the next level of maturity needed in our democracy is the "rule of law". It's easy and fashionable to blame the politicians for us to be far away from "rule of law", and they are a despicable lot and carry a lot of blame, but it is rather simplistic to believe it's all to do with politicians.
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
18
Like his advice, Puri’s observations are worthless. He characterizes the quota decision has a perverse political decision. First, has he ever seen a government decision that wasn’t “political”? Aren't they are all political since politicians decide. Calling it political says nothing about whether a decision is bad or good. A more legitimate criticism is whether a decision took into account the most relevant factors. Now, that’s a conversation worth having. Second, he isn’t satisfied with the policy. Well, boo-hoo. Doesn’t he have a magazine column to try to change public and elite opinion? May be he suspects what we know...his opinion is unpersuasive.

However, his broader argument is directed against the “political class.” Apparently, he doesn’t believe to be part of it. In what seems like an attempt to set some buses and students on fire, our resident pyromaniac incites with, “[Political Class] plays callously with your future while it deceives voters with fraudulent promises. That it dangles caste-based reservations as a sop to people denied even literacy is the cruelest mockery.”

First, the political class shouldn’t have specific concerns about future of these pampered progeny apart from the general welfare of the whole society. That means solving problems as perceived by a democratic majority without violating rights of individuals. Second, the political class is a product of the society. In aggregate, they mirror the society. Third, as for the alleged deception, the judgment of the voters will speak for itself more than Puri. Unfortunately, his advice is to the pampered progeny of the plutocrats who never cared for universal primary/secondary education; so his tears about “people denied even literacy” are slightly less convincing than a crocodile’s.

Apparently, he can’t reconcile casteism as systematic discrimination and denial of basic rights based solely on caste with the quota bill. Here’s my unsolicited explanation. This quota bill is meant to ameliorate not historical discrimination. It is meant to defeat current attitudes that echo the past resulting in institutionalized bigotry. It’s this current attitude that, with a wink and a nod, continues to parcel elite opportunities on the basis of one score of one test taken on one day as the sole and exclusive measure of intelligence and merit. If their demands are met, then the pampered progeny will go back to their satiated life and ethical lassitude of a structural privilege that they have become accustomed to.

Inexplicably, Mr. Puri veers off into the general critique of the society using the Jessica Lal case. Clearly, the police are incompetent/venal but so are the prosecutors, judges and the entire legal system. However, how long does the blame stay circumscribed around officialdom? When so many institutions are corrupt, venal and dysfunctional, shouldn’t we look for a more basic cause? When do we begin to share this failure? Mr. Puri cannot absolve society, particularly its privileged, by pinning the responsibility tail on the officialdom donkey.

The only adventurous path that this pampered progeny is capable of is self-absorption rather than contemplating simple ideas of human possibility. In the end, Mr. Puri lists obvious shortcomings and ends with this curious observation. “All that needs to be done is to create a national movement and organize the mass of suffering people to vote sensibly. And that’s it.” Vote sensibly!….as determined by those organizers with the “mass” responding to it! That’s his worthless advice. His political naiveté aside, people voting their interests as best as they perceive them is the ideal. What Puri means is substantive centralized political decisions with a mere form of individual voting. What a puri soul!!
Old Mac
Wonderville, United States
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
17
The author says that he belongs to a failed generation.I would like to add that India is tending to become a failed state.The following are the reasons:-
1.First of all India's problem is not casteism but POVERTY.India's Parliament should wotk on logical basis and not on emotional basis.Casteism is only an emotional issue.POVERTY ALLEVIATION should be carried out logically.
2.Other major issues that
have to be solved quickly are:-
i ILLITTERACY and the exploitation of the illitterates.
ii Exploitation of WOMEN and other weaker sections of the Society,like the tribals and the really POOR.
iii Reservation for WOMEN in all walks of life.
iv.ISLAMIC TERRORISM and our Government's lack of decisiveness.
v CORRUPTION at all levels in our country.
vi Black Money and parallel economy.
vii Drugs,Human trafffikking,and other crimes.
viii The threat from within and without to marginalise the Majority Hindus.
ix Interference by foreign religious groups like the Vatican in the internal affairs of our nation.
x The politicians of India trying to sell India short to the the West,World Bank,IMF,ADB.
xi Malpractices in the stock and commodities markets.F&O and Commodities trading should be banned,which do not have any logical basis,and makes investing in Stocks like mere GAMBLING.
The sooner these are addressed to and solved the better.
First of all emotion should be eschewed and Logic incorporated in the working of the Government of India.
Value Politics and not VOTE Politics should be the motto.
Vande Mataram!
K.V.Sadasivan
Bharuch, India
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
16
"mr puri looks in the mirror and sees an ugly image"... but he acknowledges the ugliness of the image and his failure to anything about it.

"leadership mirrors the morality, beauty, abilities and wants of its voting electorate"
how very true. sure,the congress in general adn arujun singh in particular mirror the true nature of their supporters, the pro reservation crowd - shameless opportunists.
and the commies in bengal and kerala reflect the charecteristics of their voters - lazy buggers who have nothing better to do than call strikes at the drop of a hat, blame the west for each and every problem that they are faced with, criticize any move that will actually bring about improvement through competetion. keep making false promises of a false paradise that communist russia, china,the whole commie block of east europe, north korea etc failed to realize.

we have a man here, mr puri, who is asking the students to unite against a system that has failed us time and again for 60 years. and we have commie elements here, who refuse to ackowledge puri's acknowledgement of his failure.
we have these commies crying foul when puri sugges equality for all.
mehta accuses todays middle class of selfishness and exploitation of the poor? how in heavnes' name? winning in competetion is not exploiting the poor. asking the more able to scale down his performance for the benefit of the looser is exploitation. or gifting success to the the looser without competetion is exploitation. the middle class of today was not always that. they were poor. two generations made incredible sacrifices to educate their successive generations. and as a result of that we have what mehta calls "selfish middle class fattened on the fruits of a booming economy" ... it is this very middle class that planted the tree called booming economy, and nutured it with sweat blood and tears.
there was no exploitation in achiving this.
i dont deny the the atrocities of the past. but i fail to understand how reservation in professional institutions is going to help people who are barely literate.
when asked for a rationale behind the reservation or the performance of this policy in the last 50-60 years, all we get to hear is "social justice for 4000 years of atrocities".. so is that your explanation? is retribution rather than equality your objective?
the anti-quota arguments directly question the efficacy of the policy, asks for results achieved in the past 60 years. but all the pro-quota camp has to offer is the cliched phrase "social justice for 4000 years of oppression".
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 08, 2006 12:00 AM
15
prashant,

i take back what i said earlier. i hadnt read those articles.
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
14
This guy Puri is utterly senile. How laughable his argument that raising Indian salaries to the Western rate will ensure India is not "exploited" by multinational companies....! Why does this headless moron think these companies bother to invest in India? He should be released into a green field to graze with fellow retired donkeys.
Ramdas Bajjanbhai
Jinja, Uganda
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
13
Bhusan,

Would it be possible that a lot of articles are pointless wastage of column space by people who put very little effort in writing them. Thay may be using borrowal of cliches, impractical suggestions, and propagation of a blaming cullture instead of creativity, originality and thinking. I may not like this and I express my opinions. If you think these are enlightening go ahead, express your appreciations. Why do you want me to do the same?

Anyway, I don't think I was too negative here. I liked the columns by Vinod Mehta (middle class morality), Prashat Bhushan (Supreme court and poor), PM Bhargava (Knowledge commission) and Arundhati Roy (Indian mentality). I expressed my appreciation for their columns on the comments section. OK Arundhati Roy, I disliked initially then on reading the comments on this forum I realised she has a point.

Why, on this forum I like the comments, and are learning from them, by Old Mac, Kiran (Hyderabad), Arun Maheswari and Ghulam Faruki.

Prasanth
Cochin, India
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
12
forgot to add, that mr puri makes his acknowledgement of failures very clear when he writes "Open letter to protesting students from a 'member of a failed generation'"
he is asking us not to fail where he has... whats so wrong with that.
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
11
prashant,

you have a cynical remark for everything everyone writes, mr puri was no exceptions, as indicated by your post.
For all the ills, what remedy are you suggesting?
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
10
Mr Puri looks in the mirror and sees an ugly image. As usual for Indians he blames the mirror for all the ugliness and wants someone else to break it or replace it. Mr Puri, for all its evils democracy has one good thing in it. Its leadership mirrors the morality, beauty, abilities and wants of its voting electorate. You are seeing your own relection in the people that govern you whom you elected or given a voting right to elect.

Lucky for India, no one will do anything to the mirror. The people Mr Puri asks to break it thinks its not their job, don't want to dirty their hands, or are frankly fearful of the sharpnels that might fly around if they try to break it.
Prasanth
Cochin, India
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
9
even if teh anti-reservationist heed the advise, would the pro-resrvationists cooperate? For, cooperations would mean no free seats in the future.
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
8
Nice article Mr. Puri. But unfortunately it is not practical and is never going to happen. The problem in India is that it is not that only a few politicians are corrupt - the WHOLE SYSTEM IS CORRUPT. And the system, I hope, will change some day but I don't think it will be in my or your lifetime, Mr. Puri.
ARVIND
ROCHESTER, United States
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
7
Well.. he forgot one important advice..

Please come out of arranged marriages and make sure you marry one from the opposite side.. Intra-caste marriages carry the caste system by birth forward.. Once you break it you break the caste system..

Selvan
Boston, United States
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
6
and though i have great respect fo mr. puri and am an ardent fan of his writings, this article begs the qeustion,
what if such an appeal is made to the pro-reservationists? would they think of the greater benefits of nation?

reservation in college, reservation in jobs, that too generation after generation... it is senseless.
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
5
looks like only bajjanbhai has all the brains....

even though mr. prui is asking the anit-reservation folks to make accomodations, this bajjanbhai seems in no mood to think beyond the benefits his kin would receive..
bhushan
richmond, United States
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
4
Sounds more like an exhortation than a rallying cry. The idea that these protesting students will ever join hands with pro-reservation students, workers and farmers seems far-fetched.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
3
Very Sensible article, It seems Vinod Mehta forgot to edit this piece, Now Yogendrs Yadav very soon will do a Caste Analysis of Mr Puri and critise it as upper caste conspiracy and vinod mehta will publish the same with prominence.
Puri Saheb country is being thrown to dogs, Jessica Lal is a classic case otherwise murders, stabbings are happening everywhere and no one ever gets punished. Today's youth is looking for quality leadership , hope it emerges from somewhere.
dhirender
chennai, India
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
2
These uppercaste fellows have no brains. there is only one way for them to respond: form an alliance with Muslims and Dalits. That would immediately give them nearly half the Indian electorate. All this stupid ranting is a wate of time. The OBCs rule India today. They will - rightly - knock the stuffing out of the damnable Uppercastes.
Ramdas Bajjanbhai
Jinja, Uganda
Jun 07, 2006 12:00 AM
1
Outlook does not deserve this honest and neutral article. Has Mr.Puri forgotten that outlook is congress mouthpiece? Congress is mother of all the problems that we are facing today. If Mr.Puri means what he says, he should first dis-associate himself from Outlook.
Rajeev
Detroit, United States
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