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Mourning

A Dark Diwali

As the country coped with news of a tragic train accident in Nalgonda and a bus accident in Tiruchirappalli, terror struck Delhi with three serial blasts - setting off a high national security alert. Updates

Outlook Web Bureau

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Delhi police circles are used to routine terror threats that always get heightened during any national occasion, and this time as the Diwali and Id festive season coincides with the anniversary of the Delhi carnage of 1984, the fears of bomb blast threats were said to be exceptionally high.

So when the news trickled in first about one blast in Paharganj which was followed by news of a series of blasts from other crowded areas in a span of five minutes, Delhi Police's worst nightmares were beginning to unfold in the dying hours of dusk.

At first, when news of the Paharganj explosion came in at 5:40, the police, in an effort to avoid panic, was tight-lipped about the seriousness of the blast and the loss of human lives. Paharganj market, almost next to the New Delhi railway station, is one of the busiest places in Delhi at any time of the year, and this being the eve of Dhanteras festival, the market was even more than crowded with shoppers.

Minutes later came news of explosions in the equally busy Sarojini Nagar market and Govindpuri area of Okhla in South Delhi. All these are places thronging and teeming with people and the casualty figures are mounting as we write. More than 50 people are suspected dead and at least a couple of hundred injured.

As per Police Commissioner K K Paul, the explosive which went off in Paharganj was planted either in a motorcycle or a rickshaw. It is too premature to be able to pinpoint responsibility but high-placed Delhi Police sources suspect these serial blasts to be the handiwork of banned Pakistan-based Lashker-e-Taiba (LeT) terror group, particularly because the Mohammad Arif alias Ashfaq and six others convicted in the December 2000 Red Fort attack case were also slated to be sentenced by a special court today, but was eventually deferred till Monday. It is obvious thought that the blasts had been planned in advance and timed strategically.

Delhi remains tense, with an alert asking people to be vigilant and to be particularly careful about unclaimed and suspicious objects and to inform the police immediately.

Serial Blasts

Rumours flew thick and fast as soon as news of the Paharganj blast came in. There were rumours of a similar blast in Gole Market and defusing of a bomb in the busy Chandni Chowk area. There were conflicting reports from Sarojini Nagar Market area, with some suggesting that the blast was caused due to a leak in a LPG cylinder.

But as the news of the Sarojini Nagar Market and Govindpuri explosions was confirmed, home minister Shivraj Patil, based on the information from intelligence and police sources, was able to confirm that the three blasts could not be dismissed as isolated incidents and seemed to be part of a concerted and well-planned effort to cause terror.

The toll from these blasts is likely to be high and it has been a sad day for many families across the country today, with the tragic train accident in Andhra Pradesh where more than a hundred are reported dead and another bus accident in Tiruchirappalli.

Nation on High Alert

Security at vital installations like bus stands, railway stations and other sensitive areas had been intensified with the deployment of additional force and checking stepped up at barriers of the adjoining states.

"Buses might be used by escaping criminals to flee and we are keeping a special eye on this. All outgoing and incoming vehicles to Delhi are being thoroughly checked," Haryana and UP police sources confirm. Patrolling has been intensified on highways and, in Punjab and Chandigarh as well, the security agencies have been directed to maintain vigil over suspicious persons and objects in view of the incidents in the national capital and approaching festivals of Diwali and Id.

For those who lost their loved ones in today's tragic incidents and all those still trying to recover from the tremors of the earthquake of October 8, this festive season is going to be specially trying and tragic.

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Filed In Topics: Delhi 29/10, NCT of Delhi, Terror in India, Outlook Web Bureau

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Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 50	Free Booze writes: >>Fool is not the word, it is insidious. This guys are politicians remember that!! They just forgot which side of the butter is buttered. especially for their childrens and future generations All sides of butter is buttered....even prior generations. Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 49	Selvan writes: >>Did you mean lobotomy??... Yes. Glad the procedure didn't affect your spelling capability. Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 48	Frocks talk in different language with each and every cast of hindus. When they approach the low class people they say "So why u guys are worshipping Aryan gods when u urself are not aryans" Jesus is for all irrespective of race and natinality. The low caste guys fails to ask "why I should worship the son of the hebrew tribal god when I am not a hebrew". Then the frocks claim again that jesus and jehova are son of god and god for all humans not just hebrews. Then they talk about the prophets and history (old and new testaments) of jews. That all humans came from adam and eve etc., which is again the jewish version of evolution..,and ultimately they baptise that low class guy and will give him some hebrew name., like mathew, john, samuel etc., but again they havent answered how the hebrew tribal god became the god of all humans., When they approach the high castes these frocks talk lot about philosophy and claim that indian philosophy and its philosophers including budha preach negatively and condemn the human life and say everything is illusion etc., so its better to follow the hebrew philosophy than the negative philosophy of india., and so on. Then the learned kick their ass the depreived convert. eyunni new york, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 47	That is the insestiveness of frocks. Mullahs as usual wait for the day when like persia, entire indian subcontinent becomes ummah. They perceive that things are going in the right direction and according to the plan of Allah this time the arab tribal god. Thats the insensitive attitude of Mullahs. Hindus are anyway insensitive to each other claiming one is superior to the other. They remind me of the sheep again. Unless its neck touches the blade of sword it wont re realise that its life is going to end. eyunni new york, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 46	When this continues., then frocks come around and preach like this., So what your million gods and goddesses are doing when u guys are getting killed by terrorists. Blood of jesus will save you guys., Once you believe that jesus is the son of God and one true god of mankind Jehova (basically a hebrew tribal god) then u will be saved. So stop worshipping dolls and statues and kneel down before son of Jehova the Yeshua and life will be cool. Diwali is actually the haloween the festival of ghosts!!! Hows that.. eyunni new york, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 45	Indians are in general insensitive. 71 people died in terrorist attack still people are busy celebrating diwali. It reminds me of sheep. If one sheep is butchered in front of other sheeps, still those sheep dont feel that it will be their turn one day to get killed. I dont know if we can call it ignorence or selfishness!!! For sheep its ignorence and for humans its selfishness. These terrorists will one day kill everyone brutally but still life continues for indian hindus as usual., when its a routine then how can it fiugure in headlines., ........ eyunni new york, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 44	Swami Nathan writes: >>NITS is back with vengeance. India will never conduct a plebiscite in Kashmir. Don't ever dream about it. Yes we all know the muslim psyche. Kashmir has been India's for eons and will remain so for ever. The geo-political equivalent of an obsessive stalker. Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 43	Nits ---------- What would be the scenario after the valley leaves India. ny guesses lalit bagai kalundborg, Brazil
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 42	Frocks say that and is worse in their book about infidels. The funny part is - to know that and know the historical context you have to read 'the Original Marxists' not the 'Religious left'. Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 41	I think it happened quite sometimes back(before Bofors). He was on the same side as the BJP as regards policies. I have to dig up the exact context. I can dig it out if you really need it. But the point is as long as they make a honest living they will keep off communism and they will move towards right. as the westerners say liberals are closet communist(Congress) Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 40	missed this one - once the yadavas start working and start make good living they will make Laloo change policies or desert him, became right wing and adopt their biggest - 'Krishna Bhagwan'. It is a fact happened everywhere and will happen with them also. Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 39	I agree. But I guess I somehow agree with Laloo, he achieved what he said out to do. He brought out Yadavs numerically strong from lowest rung to somekind of respectable position(if you use the term relatively). As regards Laloo and his position about muslims, you have to follow his earlier position. He changed policy to win. So I still blame Congress/Left for all this. Fool is not the word, it is insidious. This guys are politicians remember that!! They just forgot which side of the butter is buttered. especially for their childrens and future generations Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 38	NITS is back with vengeance. India will never conduct a plebiscite in Kashmir. Don't ever dream about it. Yes we all know the muslim psyche. Kashmir has been India's for eons and will remain so for ever. When non-muslims respond it's hate mail but NITS conveniently forgets his language in most of his posts evn threatening some. Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 37	Superb point by Khan from Hyderabad. It's a joke to seal Delhi but open up LOC inviting the Jihadis. I hope Khan is truly muslim and not a pseudonym Ghulam has at last made some real interesting points after the claims from 'Inquilaab's Gaznavi. Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 36	Headline 1 " Delhi sealed in view of the bomb blasts" Headline 2 " Five points on LOC to be opened" Isn't it quite ironical that the "peace initiatives" with Pakistan are still on when infiltrators from across the borders are wreaking havoc inside the National Capital. What does the government mean when it says that we will fight back? What have successive governments done to fight back? One incident in America and the country goes and rips apart Afghanistan and Iraq. But India? It needs "permission" from its big brothers(read USA and UK) to strike the terrorist camps in our most favoured nation. I am not against peace nor am I keen to use violence. But please this is the limit. What would have the government done if some VIP and not just civilians would have been the victim? Would it have had the same attitude towards this increasing menace? Now is the time for some stern action without asking for permission from others. Hunt down the root of this terrorism. A S Khan Hyderabad, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 35	Lalit and Srinivas, I have lost count of the number of clerics who have said both on TV and print that suicide and killing of civilians is not permitted under any circumstances In my view, the clerics you have been listening to are wrong. Van Gogh's killer is full of B.S. I am especially mad because I admired Theo's skills as a director, and we are all eternally grateful to his grandfather for the help he gave Vincent, my favorite artist. If L-e-T or Inquilaab or whoever carry out these heinous activities, I wonder why you think I should feel any more responsible than you do? Just because they call themselves Muslims? I do not even consider them to be Muslims. If I feel more angry at them than you do, you are smart enough to figure out why. I agree with you that many Muslims seem to be pathologically possessed or obsessed by their religiosity. Europe went through a similar dark period from the 12th to the 16th centuries. I consider it to be a phase. Concepts of "only God" and "one true prophet" are common to all Abrahamic religions, and need to be taken not too concretely or literally. We all need to learn to respect the religions of others; Muslims need to lrearn this even more than others. I do not know whether Europeans should or should not have allowed Muslim immigration. They knew Muslims long enough, the French in Algeria, the Dutch in Indinesia, the British in India and Palestine, and so on. Regarding the blasts occurring when Muslims were breaking their rozas, what can the defenders of the "peaceful religion" say, except that these criminals have no right to be called Muslims. I agree with you that we have carried this discussion far enough. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 34	Though i denounce the blasts, i think india should seriously consider carrying out its long promised plebiscite in kashmir. These blasts were wrong(and they certainly are), but we should not forget the accesses commited by indian army on kashmiris. Mixing it with islam is a very convinient way to view things, but it is more complex. waiting for the hate mails, but i am not gonna reply. just a perspective. nits nashville, USA
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 33	I think it is no use blaming outsiders when the fault is in our own yard. I do not think I have heard any action taken by any Government in this regard. The reason for it is not hard to find. Where do these terrorist get their oxygen from - The 'Religious Left' the same association of the Communist/Frocks/Muslims. The left provides the 'bleeding heart' (liberal) cover for the frocks and muslims. It is not a misplaced cover, it is a well thought out strategy. Now look at who this left are, where do they come from - Kerala and West Bengal. Kerala is also a haven for this fundamentalistic activity. But they restrict to their own area and try to screw themselver other then some occassion when they go to TN and trigger blast in Coimbatore for which 'Al-Umaa(look at the meaning of the name) is being fried by Jayalalitha without trial. If you have to track their history any independent historian will point out the 'Mobellah Rebellion'(Communist lingo). It was passed off as a communist uprising by the Communist and still is if you look in the history books. In reality, for Caliphate they butchered womens and children. But it is a case closed. But if you look at all the malayalees working in tea-shops and Gulf and trying to a honest living you will leave them. They contribute minor number of seats to LokSabha. They are the second ones after the really big fish,the Shark - 'West Bengal'. If you start talking about WB it will go on and on how they screwed various states at various points of time just to justify Communism and make money out of it, including selling themselves to foreigners. The industrial wasteland of the eastern seaboard. Screwed up Bihar and Orissa, the demographic change being brought up in North Eastern states with the acting conviance of the Bengalis(the dream of 'UNITED BENGAL' tied by common language). It is another thing Bangladeshis have different ideas which coincides with Ummah etc. At the risk of sounding right, I will say I absolutely do not have any problem with 'Bangladeshi hindus' coming to India and settling here. So the only way to break out of this is to throw the 'Religious Left' out. They have to lose both in State and Central Government. This can be done only by the Bengalis. Other Indians can only help. There has to be some kind of activism here. These people have to exposed at all levels at village/Town/City/National/International level. They should not be able to get away by whitewashing facts. It has to be done in a organised manner with Bengalis from all over west bengal leading from the front reporting on their every activity for the whole world to know. How they are brainwashing their kids from the school with their progaganda. What kind of stuff they dish out in their outdated 'revolutionary' books. Their morality and making 'poverty' a badge of honour and making it a tourism industry catering to the foreigners and the frocks. How in there poverty they leave their womens in Brindavan and turn it into a hinduism thing. How they are 'organised thugs' taking money out of the honest hard working people/industralist. If something starts up I am sure other Indians will start chipping in and definetely the industrialist(Gujarat/Bombay/Marwaris) as they have already been labelled as RSS by this goons. Once they are out then the terrorist can be taken to task, till then it is a losing proposition. Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 32	Srinivas _________ I agree. After every letter I say to myself that is the last. I have said enough. But it never seems to convinces the so called liberal muslims, who want to have it both ways. Be friendly with the nonbelievers and be a part of the muslim brotherhood at the same time.. Perhaps it is not what I would do, but good luck to those who feel this is way to go. After this incident in Delhi where most of my family and friends live I feel - very likely its unreasonable-that I have had my fill of muslims of all kinds. Fat and thin, tall and short, liberals or the holy warriors. After even a cursory check they seeem to be the same,tied to each other by a umbilical cord and implacably opposed to us Hindus. In India unlike other places , muslims have a strategic alliance with christians, dalits , sikhs -anyone else It confirms my belief ,that India should part with the muslim dominated Kashmir valley and be done with it. I like some others am prepared to fight for friends and like minded people, but why should India sacrifice so much for people with whom it has so few shared values. I know that India can do nothing about 150 million muslims, but why do Indian leaders ,people etc want to keep Kshmiri muslims in India in the Union by force. Maybe by parting with Kashmir India will avoid some of the terrorist violence and will also be able to use more of its resources to help Indians who care for India and are not its enemies. Thats it- no more from me on this subject-, and I hope I am not provoked or tempted to write on this subject once again. lalit bagai kalundborg, Brazil
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 31	Lalit, there is no point in trying to reason with people like Ghulam. While he does contribute positively to the discourse, when it comes to issues like these he tends to clam up and go back to the time-tested muslim defence that their religion does not permit such and that it is a peaceful religion etc etc. No amount of evidence to the contrary will convince them. Selvan has posted an interesting perspective about the timing of the blasts coinciding with the time of the "breaking-fast" of the muslims in Delhi - so that no muslim is injured / killed in the attack. What would the defenders of the peaceful religion say about this? The irony is that India is begging to help the quake victims in Pakistan and POK - begging to send helicopters, begging to send money (25 Million Dollars), begging to send relief. And what happens in return - throats of Kashmiri Hindus are slit, Kashmiri Hindus are forced to flee from their homes, Ministers are assassinated, people shopping are blown to bits. We seem to be funding terrorist activities against ourselves. And now peaceniks say with "holier-than-thou" attitudes - The peace process should not be derailed. What is this peace process - where people are being slaughtered left, right and center? Srinivas Delhi, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 30	Selvan writes: >>Larger goal is to educate the non-Muslims and hope atleast a "few" believing individuals to realise how evil certain teachings are in their "holy book" and try to reform. But it's a much bigger task and can take centuries.. But we have to atleast take the initiative..to educate the evils of this "arab imperialist cult" to the non-believers. I was an apologist for this "cult" and changed only during the last few years. --- OLD MAC writes. Did it coincide with your labotomy? -- Did you mean lobotomy??... Anyways, I think it's a waste of time to indulge in personal attacks.. So would ignore it.. An interesting perspective from BBC. It may be worth noting that the time when these blasts happened roughly coincides with sunset in Delhi, the time for Muslims to break their Ramadan fast. So, if these were Muslim terrorists, they may have calculated that they will miss conservative Muslims who would be at home to break their fasts instead of shopping in the markets. Nadeem Jamali, Saskatoon, Canada -- Selvan Boston, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 29	Faruki __________ Muslim clerics in Pakistan, Britain and other countries have openly said on TV , and in interviews that suicide bombings are all right when fighting people who have occupied muslim countries. Muslim leaders have said the same, and talked about justifiable suicide bombings and terrorism. Muslims columnists in Dawn and Pakistan Link justify jehad. The man who killed Theo Van Gogh said in court that he was acting on behalf of his religion, and adressing Theo's mother said he felt no pity for her because she was a infidel. I think that clerics are truer muslims then you are. The suicide bombers who are willing to die are also motivated by their religion.It is not acceptable that people like you glibly wash your hands of moral responsibility by claiming that muslim clerics are not true muslims, or do not understand their religion. I have watched an Islamic channel in London, and though I could not understand the Arabic spoken , the undertexts were clear. The muslims were the pure and the nonbelievers would end in eternal hell fire. Verses of hating and killing infidels dominated and one or two talked about tolerance, a typical muslim double speek to confuse anyone. A simple question to you. If muslims are like everyone wanting to live like the others, why are they so besotted by their religion, such that they are a people apart from others, with dress, food and behaviour which marks them out to be aliens. Lastly all talk of Allah being the only god, mohammed being his messenger and the Koran being the word of god makes one shake ones head in disbelief. If people wre willing to believe this then one can expect anything however irrational from such people. No wonder irrational muslims are willing to die in order to attain paradise with the 72 virgins. This is clearly stated in Islamic teachings, though people like you try and brush it under the carpet, because even to you its is bizaare and hard to believe. I dont blame muslim kids for their terrorist acts. It is the religion stupid, and this is one thing people tend to ignore, and most muslims try to trivialise. All in all I think it was a big mistake for European countries , to have allowed muslims into their countries. They now face their perennial complaints, threats of terrorism and their contribution to civil society is negative. Europeans are also tired of reading about the continual white wash jobs by people like you. Finally whilst 0.1 % of muslims may committ terrorism, they have about 10 to 30 %support from their communities. This is information from reading British newspapers. lalit bagai kalundborg, Brazil
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 28	Banerji, thanks for the tip. Swaminathan, I too have been struck with the similarities in the publications from the Sangh and the Zionists. If I was faced with the choice of voting for either the Sangh or the Jihadis, I probably would vote for neither. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 27	Any one who presents hard facts against Islamic terror is branded a 'pariwar member' in India. Ghulam is no different. BTW is Sangh so bad. I don't think so. If given a choice between Sangh and Jihadis I will root for Sangh. Simple! They don't behead innocents in the name of God. BTW when did these western writers like Grant Swank, Daniel Pipes etc. become Sanghis? Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 26	"While we need not defend Pakistani behavior, objective information, if it can be got, would be interesting" Go to rediff.com - I usually put enough evidence and data in my articles...also, if you check out sites like Pakistan-facts.com - you'll find most of the evidence you're looking for... Arindam Banerji Sunnyvale, USA
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 25	Banerji and Swaminathan, It does not take a large percentage of a population to create mayhem. The number of poeople in any community who are politically conscious and activists is usually very small. Granted that in the Pakistani hinterland ignorance and intolerance may be rampant. While we need not defend Pakistani behavior, objective information, if it can be got, would be interesting. Concepts of Ummah and the Caliphate are not live issues among the Muslims I know. I seem to come across these terms mostly in publications from the Pariwar. I did nor mean to imply that Muslims are denied their right to worship. The point I was making was that for the vast majority of Muslims the daily concerns are the same as those of any other community. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 24	"Even if the percentage of terrorists in Muslim community is only 1%, it is 1% too many" The more we spread around absurd numbers like 1%, when millions (and probably tens) of Pakis contribute to terrorist organizations, that exclusively specialize in killing Indians - the more we destroy our own ability to protect our own children/citizens. And why is it necessary to do this - just because some in their zeal to "protect a certain community", feel they must defend the bloodlust of the average Paki... 1% is a fringe number - 45% shows that the society is diseased. The difference implies a difference in strategy with dealing with attacks against India. The more we separate Paki behaviour from Indian Muslim society and/or Turkish Muslim society - the better it is. Arindam Banerji Sunnyvale, USA
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 23	Ghulam says "Swaminathan, after the London bombings, what emerged was that neither the families of the bombers nor their closest friends knew anything about their involvement in terroristic activity." Well what's the guarantee that the families are speaking truth. I will give you one instance of a pakistani family, Khadr in Canada who were closely associated with Bin Laden. The father was killed in the 'war against the infidels' in Afghanistan. He had bought uo his son as 'true muslims' and wanted them to wage jihad against the infidels. The result his 15 year old son is now languishing in Guantanamo. The rest of the family has ironically moved to Canada to get treatment for some of their Jihadi children for life threatening injuries suffered in their war against the infidels in Afghanistan. Why am i saying this story, 'cause the family vehemntly denied any knowledge of the children's jihadi activities until it was proved beyond doubt. Can't this be the case with other jihadi families across the globe. After all we are talking of one Ummah with one goal, of establishment of Islamic caliphate across the globe. Ghulam: "The concerns of most Muslims, like the concerns of everyone else, relate to earning a daily living, giving food, shelter and education to their children and have the freedom of worship. " ... freedom of worship ? Did i read it right? Now this is where you muslims differ from all of us. Can you tell me who took away your freedom of worship. You are allowed to wail over the loud speakers urging the faithful to pray and of course allowed to pray, be it New York, Madrid, Copenhagen you name it, any infidel land. As far the polls go nothing is suspect. The question was clear and simple. Do you support the suicide bombings? You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand and answer this simple question. While 100% of non-muslims will say a BIG NO, sadly this is not the case with muslims. Yes, 1% of extreme radical muslims, say in Pakistan means 1.5 million sucicide bombers ready to go to paradise and sending on an average 3 kaffirs to 'hell'. So simple math says that almost 5 million infidels will be headed to 'hell'. Even if the percentage of terrorists in Muslim community is only 1%, it is 1% too many Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 22	Swaminathan, after the London bombings, what emerged was that neither the families of the bombers nor their closest friends knew anything about their involvement in terroristic activity. The concerns of most Muslims, like the concerns of everyone else, relate to earning a daily living, giving food, shelter and education to their children and have the freedom of worship. It is sadly true that because of ignorance some families encourage their children to accept religious mentoring from some undesirable teachers, and it is also perhaps true that Saudi funds find their way into some very dubious activities. Information derived from polls is always suspect, firstly because of the way the questions are phrased, and secondly one does not know the depth or seriousness of the answers given. Even if the percentage of terrorists in Muslim community is only 1%, it is 1% too many. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 21	"The figure would be 1% in the most militant societies like Pakistan" Unfortunately, that is the kind of nonsense that we expect from jihadi leaders like Musharraf, not in a civil discussion... - how does a society in which 44% peopole support suicide bombings, have 1% radicals - how does a society that wipes out its entire minority population accunt for 1% radicals... Can we stop peddling this kind of nonsense, just because we would like to defend "a particular community" - Pakistani terrorism has nothing to do with Indian Muslim society and we dont have to defend the Paki bloodlust, just to defend Muslim society at large. Arindam Banerji Sunnyvale, USA
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 20	Ghulam it is not as the world waits for a muslim carry a rucksack with a bomb or a suicide belt to blow up innocent people and be branded a terrorist. The more dangerous ones are those who covertly or overtly support these breed of bombers. A recent survey in UK after 7/7 has revealed a majority support suicide bombing. Most of the muslims do not report these activities to the police, they sympathise with these bombers. They rub their hands in glee (in their bed rooms and drawing rooms) when innocents are blown apart. They talk of 'to avenge Israel's so called atrocities on palestinians' when heartless Islamic butchers mow down more than 150 children in Beslan. I call these people terrorists as well. Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 19	Swaminathan says, "Despite overwhelming evidence of Islamic terrorism worldwide these cohorts talk about 'few muslims' tarnishing the entire community." Muslims live in 50 countries. What percentage of Muslims in each country engage in or are sympathetic to terrorism? The figure would be 1% in the most militant societies like Pakistan, and close to 0 in many other countries. They should of course be condemned, apprehended and hanged, but blaming a community of 1.3 billion people for their misdeeds is not warranted. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 18	Bleeding_Indian has hit the nail on the head. BJP gave us a atleast a sense of security, not withstanding the fact that most of the bravo talk by people like Advani was hot air. Now the nation is in the grip of an Italian mafia in cahoots with 'secular' Yadavs and of course the communists. We have a champion educationist in Arjun Singh who re-writes in a stroke the entire Hindu history to appease his Islamic bosses. We are told time and again by NGOs like setalvad and yellow journalists like MJ Akbar, Seema mustafa et al about Hindu atrocities and muslim oppression. So an average not so street smart 'Ram Bharose' is pushed around in his own backyard, told to behave and now is terrified whether he will get home in one piece to see his family. Pardon me if I have offended any muslim. Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 17	It's futile to even try to get a rational and logical response from muslims like Ghulam Faruki. They are the 'true' muslims. Despite overwhelming evidence of Islamic terrorism worldwide these cohorts talk about 'few muslims' tarnishing the entire community. This is clearly a Pak act with ISI stamp all over it. India begs Pak to throw open LOC, gifts $25 million to the epicentre of terrorism and before she could pat herself on the back the secular Babus are rudely awaken by these blasts. They will never wake, though. Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 16	Selvan writes: >>Larger goal is to educate the non-Muslims and hope atleast a "few" believing individuals to realise how evil certain teachings are in their "holy book" and try to reform. But it's a much bigger task and can take centuries.. But we have to atleast take the initiative..to educate the evils of this "arab imperialist cult" to the non-believers. I was an apologist for this "cult" and changed only during the last few years. Did it coincide with your labotomy? Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 15	Minu_Chaterjee writes: >>South Indians are Hindus (I would say better hindus than most of us), and you have seen many posts from south on these issues. Aryan-Drivian Debate is buried for good. Even Nehru wrote very candidly in "Discovery of India", that Southern India could preserve much of pre-islamic culture because there were less islamic penetration. Much hindu regeration of last century has happened from southern roots, you must NOT forget that. You are whistling past the graveyard of Hindu unity.... Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 14	Kiran says, "They are not ? even when they say so and explode themselves ?" Precisely. Islam strictly forbids suicide, and killing of innocent civilians. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 13	ghulam "Do you know for a fact that these terrorists are religiously motivated? Have you talked to any of them? " They are not ? even when they say so and explode themselves ?what kind of proof are you really looking for ? or what fantasy you want to escape to? Kiran Hyderabad, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 12	Lalit says, " It is only the muslims who bring religion into everything when fighting non muslims." Do you know for a fact that these terrorists are religiously motivated? Have you talked to any of them? It seems you are out to impugn and malign a whole community while maintaining an ostentatious stance of being factual and reasonable. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 11	Last time, during the ayodhya attack, I quoted the verses from Quran about "terrorising the non-believers" and I was banned.. Can you imagine outlook's "secularism" ??.. This time I want to play safe.. We have to take the security forces into task.. These guys are fanatics who believe of "72 virgins" and "god's command to kill kafirs" and there is plenty of suport in their "holy document". The "Indian intelligence" should infiltrate into their network.. and that's the only immediate way to prevent these types of attacks Larger goal is to educate the non-Muslims and hope atleast a "few" believing individuals to realise how evil certain teachings are in their "holy book" and try to reform. But it's a much bigger task and can take centuries.. But we have to atleast take the initiative..to educate the evils of this "arab imperialist cult" to the non-believers. I was an apologist for this "cult" and changed only during the last few years.. Selvan Boston, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 10	Faruki _______ Your response is the standard form of response which one gets from muslims everytime some thing awful happens. However non muslims are getting to the point when they will not be satisfied with this. This is evident everywhere.. How would you react if non muslims terrorists were to act in a similar manner. example would be US Christian fundamentalists killing muslims in a crowded mosque or a muslim gathering. Would you be as forgiveing and laid back. If so ,you would be just one of your kind. Muslims as a community are very sensitive when one of them gets hurt.. They advise patience and understanding when the others are at the recieveing end.Many people have pointed this out. Incidenrtally the Basqes are fighting for a homeland for basques and not fighting as christians. Same goes for the Tamils. Something similar happened in northern Ireland. It was the British protestant fighting Irish catholic. It is a fight between Brits and Irish, and religion has played no part.The fight between Indian's fighting the British was also a fight between coloniasts and a subject people. The Congress fought also on this basis. Religion was never a issue. It is only the muslims who bring religion into everything when fighting non muslims. Its jehad and infidels and kaffirs, lalit bagai kalundborg, Brazil
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 9	Atik Pathan, Well said! I fully agree with you. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 8	Tragedy has struck the nation in the darkest form yet again. The verdict is out and Terrorism ( aka Muslims ) are being blamed as the culprits. Unfortunately the Muslim leaders for some reason do not come out and condemn such attacks and somehow retreat in a shell. Its strange that whenever a tragedy of such gruesome nature occurs the entire nation is out in support and offering succor to those affected but we Muslims in particular remain silent. It was the most disturbing news anyone could have expected on such a festive occasion when people were making last minute purchases for Diwali and Eid celebrations. Yes the casualties could have been Muslim too but for now that is not the issue. Those responsible for such barbaric acts that results in loss of precious human lives cannot and should not be spared. I share the grief and pain suffered by these innocent families who have been a victim of senseless hatred and pray to Almighty to bestow the severest punishments on all those responsible. Ameen. Atik Pathan Pune, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 7	Lalit says, "However they seem to get their inspiration by following their Islamic faith." Their inspiration comes from ignoring their faith. Terrorism commited by the Basques in Spain, Catholics and Protestants in North Ireland, Tamils in Sri Lanka and Serbs in Kosovo is also not inspired by their respective faiths. Oversimplification of issues is not helpful. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 6	Minu_Chaterjee writes: >>Yes, thank you for proving myself right. Communal, terrorist supporters like you (you spoke about dropping napalm on India yesterday) masquandered as secular, carried on viscious campaign with little or no logic, whoever protested. Your inability to quote my comment or its context accurately proves that you are dumb as a doorpost. >> I WANT YOU TO BECOME MORE IRRATIONAL, ILLOGICAL. Even then, you won't get laid. Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 5	In the last two days 6 young muslims aged 16 to 20 years have been arrested under suspicioun of plotting terrorist activities in Denmark or another European country. Two were arrested in Sarajevo. A large cache of explosives , arms and money were discovered in their house. The European anti terrorist agencies now seem better prepared. Regarding Faruqi's cooments one has to agree that a small number commit these terrorist acts. However they seem to get their inspiration by following their Islamic faith. All the six terrorists were very religious muslims, and attended their local mosque faithfully. Being so young it has been suggested that they must have some older people who have encouraged them as well. The time has come when muslims in general should take a look at their religion ctitically. There is no point in repeating that Islam is a tolerant and peaceful religion when it inspires its most faithful followers, and the learned clerics to committ or encourage barbaric acts. Continueing this myth means that many non muslims thinkers , leaders and civil society will judge them as hypocrites or naive and gullible people. Can they continue to follow a faith which results in committing barbarism the world over. It also means that non muslim civil society will judge them and their innocent young in a most unfavourable light. I know it will require courage to break away from Islam , and lose some of the comfort it provides. However the ball is in your court. As far as Denmark is concerned civil society and government would be happy if most muslims left, because no body has time or patience to deal with them- the good or the bad. Raruqi would you not feel the same when confronted by this problem. lalit bagai kalundborg, Brazil
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 4	Minu_Chaterjee writes: >>This [Terrorism] is well deserved by Delhi (and India) where millions of Muslims have been given ration card and allowed to settle. This post puts you ahead in the Crazy Bitch of the Year contest. This stupid skank is giddy over dead bodies. Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 3	Template 1 - This is an act of xxxxx to derail the peace process. Let us redouble over efforts to the peace process or candle lighting or xxxx so that their efforts do not succeed. Template 2 - Let us build the goodwill bridge or xxxx so that there can be more people to people contact. We have to tap into the enormous goodwill that exists on both sides of the border which we can see daily. Let us redouble over efforts to the peace process or candle lighting or xxxx so that we have a good future or xxxx. for the uninitiated please remember the 'sense of humor' thing. Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 29, 2005 12:00 AM 2	When will this brutality end? Whether it is done by Muslim terrorists or by the Naxalites or someone else, these atrocities always create intense anxiety and embarrassment for Indian Muslims, who feel that they will be the targets of anger and blame, even if no more than 00.1% of them would engage in or support such criminal activity. How can they root out this evil if it is amidst them, or do something about border security if it comes from without? In practical terms there is nothing that they can really do except curse out and damn the villains who carry out such dastardly acts. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 29, 2005 12:00 AM 1	Don't jump to any conclusions and discourage speculation on who committed these acts and why. Conduct a thorough investigation and gather evidence to determine who and why. Find the perpetrators. Convict them and then fry the bastards. Old Mac ???, United States

Oct 29, 2005 12:00 AM 1	Don't jump to any conclusions and discourage speculation on who committed these acts and why. Conduct a thorough investigation and gather evidence to determine who and why. Find the perpetrators. Convict them and then fry the bastards. Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 29, 2005 12:00 AM 2	When will this brutality end? Whether it is done by Muslim terrorists or by the Naxalites or someone else, these atrocities always create intense anxiety and embarrassment for Indian Muslims, who feel that they will be the targets of anger and blame, even if no more than 00.1% of them would engage in or support such criminal activity. How can they root out this evil if it is amidst them, or do something about border security if it comes from without? In practical terms there is nothing that they can really do except curse out and damn the villains who carry out such dastardly acts. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 3	Template 1 - This is an act of xxxxx to derail the peace process. Let us redouble over efforts to the peace process or candle lighting or xxxx so that their efforts do not succeed. Template 2 - Let us build the goodwill bridge or xxxx so that there can be more people to people contact. We have to tap into the enormous goodwill that exists on both sides of the border which we can see daily. Let us redouble over efforts to the peace process or candle lighting or xxxx so that we have a good future or xxxx. for the uninitiated please remember the 'sense of humor' thing. Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 4	Minu_Chaterjee writes: >>This [Terrorism] is well deserved by Delhi (and India) where millions of Muslims have been given ration card and allowed to settle. This post puts you ahead in the Crazy Bitch of the Year contest. This stupid skank is giddy over dead bodies. Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 5	In the last two days 6 young muslims aged 16 to 20 years have been arrested under suspicioun of plotting terrorist activities in Denmark or another European country. Two were arrested in Sarajevo. A large cache of explosives , arms and money were discovered in their house. The European anti terrorist agencies now seem better prepared. Regarding Faruqi's cooments one has to agree that a small number commit these terrorist acts. However they seem to get their inspiration by following their Islamic faith. All the six terrorists were very religious muslims, and attended their local mosque faithfully. Being so young it has been suggested that they must have some older people who have encouraged them as well. The time has come when muslims in general should take a look at their religion ctitically. There is no point in repeating that Islam is a tolerant and peaceful religion when it inspires its most faithful followers, and the learned clerics to committ or encourage barbaric acts. Continueing this myth means that many non muslims thinkers , leaders and civil society will judge them as hypocrites or naive and gullible people. Can they continue to follow a faith which results in committing barbarism the world over. It also means that non muslim civil society will judge them and their innocent young in a most unfavourable light. I know it will require courage to break away from Islam , and lose some of the comfort it provides. However the ball is in your court. As far as Denmark is concerned civil society and government would be happy if most muslims left, because no body has time or patience to deal with them- the good or the bad. Raruqi would you not feel the same when confronted by this problem. lalit bagai kalundborg, Brazil
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 6	Minu_Chaterjee writes: >>Yes, thank you for proving myself right. Communal, terrorist supporters like you (you spoke about dropping napalm on India yesterday) masquandered as secular, carried on viscious campaign with little or no logic, whoever protested. Your inability to quote my comment or its context accurately proves that you are dumb as a doorpost. >> I WANT YOU TO BECOME MORE IRRATIONAL, ILLOGICAL. Even then, you won't get laid. Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 7	Lalit says, "However they seem to get their inspiration by following their Islamic faith." Their inspiration comes from ignoring their faith. Terrorism commited by the Basques in Spain, Catholics and Protestants in North Ireland, Tamils in Sri Lanka and Serbs in Kosovo is also not inspired by their respective faiths. Oversimplification of issues is not helpful. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 8	Tragedy has struck the nation in the darkest form yet again. The verdict is out and Terrorism ( aka Muslims ) are being blamed as the culprits. Unfortunately the Muslim leaders for some reason do not come out and condemn such attacks and somehow retreat in a shell. Its strange that whenever a tragedy of such gruesome nature occurs the entire nation is out in support and offering succor to those affected but we Muslims in particular remain silent. It was the most disturbing news anyone could have expected on such a festive occasion when people were making last minute purchases for Diwali and Eid celebrations. Yes the casualties could have been Muslim too but for now that is not the issue. Those responsible for such barbaric acts that results in loss of precious human lives cannot and should not be spared. I share the grief and pain suffered by these innocent families who have been a victim of senseless hatred and pray to Almighty to bestow the severest punishments on all those responsible. Ameen. Atik Pathan Pune, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 9	Atik Pathan, Well said! I fully agree with you. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 10	Faruki _______ Your response is the standard form of response which one gets from muslims everytime some thing awful happens. However non muslims are getting to the point when they will not be satisfied with this. This is evident everywhere.. How would you react if non muslims terrorists were to act in a similar manner. example would be US Christian fundamentalists killing muslims in a crowded mosque or a muslim gathering. Would you be as forgiveing and laid back. If so ,you would be just one of your kind. Muslims as a community are very sensitive when one of them gets hurt.. They advise patience and understanding when the others are at the recieveing end.Many people have pointed this out. Incidenrtally the Basqes are fighting for a homeland for basques and not fighting as christians. Same goes for the Tamils. Something similar happened in northern Ireland. It was the British protestant fighting Irish catholic. It is a fight between Brits and Irish, and religion has played no part.The fight between Indian's fighting the British was also a fight between coloniasts and a subject people. The Congress fought also on this basis. Religion was never a issue. It is only the muslims who bring religion into everything when fighting non muslims. Its jehad and infidels and kaffirs, lalit bagai kalundborg, Brazil
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 11	Last time, during the ayodhya attack, I quoted the verses from Quran about "terrorising the non-believers" and I was banned.. Can you imagine outlook's "secularism" ??.. This time I want to play safe.. We have to take the security forces into task.. These guys are fanatics who believe of "72 virgins" and "god's command to kill kafirs" and there is plenty of suport in their "holy document". The "Indian intelligence" should infiltrate into their network.. and that's the only immediate way to prevent these types of attacks Larger goal is to educate the non-Muslims and hope atleast a "few" believing individuals to realise how evil certain teachings are in their "holy book" and try to reform. But it's a much bigger task and can take centuries.. But we have to atleast take the initiative..to educate the evils of this "arab imperialist cult" to the non-believers. I was an apologist for this "cult" and changed only during the last few years.. Selvan Boston, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 12	Lalit says, " It is only the muslims who bring religion into everything when fighting non muslims." Do you know for a fact that these terrorists are religiously motivated? Have you talked to any of them? It seems you are out to impugn and malign a whole community while maintaining an ostentatious stance of being factual and reasonable. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 13	ghulam "Do you know for a fact that these terrorists are religiously motivated? Have you talked to any of them? " They are not ? even when they say so and explode themselves ?what kind of proof are you really looking for ? or what fantasy you want to escape to? Kiran Hyderabad, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 14	Kiran says, "They are not ? even when they say so and explode themselves ?" Precisely. Islam strictly forbids suicide, and killing of innocent civilians. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 15	Minu_Chaterjee writes: >>South Indians are Hindus (I would say better hindus than most of us), and you have seen many posts from south on these issues. Aryan-Drivian Debate is buried for good. Even Nehru wrote very candidly in "Discovery of India", that Southern India could preserve much of pre-islamic culture because there were less islamic penetration. Much hindu regeration of last century has happened from southern roots, you must NOT forget that. You are whistling past the graveyard of Hindu unity.... Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 16	Selvan writes: >>Larger goal is to educate the non-Muslims and hope atleast a "few" believing individuals to realise how evil certain teachings are in their "holy book" and try to reform. But it's a much bigger task and can take centuries.. But we have to atleast take the initiative..to educate the evils of this "arab imperialist cult" to the non-believers. I was an apologist for this "cult" and changed only during the last few years. Did it coincide with your labotomy? Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 17	It's futile to even try to get a rational and logical response from muslims like Ghulam Faruki. They are the 'true' muslims. Despite overwhelming evidence of Islamic terrorism worldwide these cohorts talk about 'few muslims' tarnishing the entire community. This is clearly a Pak act with ISI stamp all over it. India begs Pak to throw open LOC, gifts $25 million to the epicentre of terrorism and before she could pat herself on the back the secular Babus are rudely awaken by these blasts. They will never wake, though. Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 18	Bleeding_Indian has hit the nail on the head. BJP gave us a atleast a sense of security, not withstanding the fact that most of the bravo talk by people like Advani was hot air. Now the nation is in the grip of an Italian mafia in cahoots with 'secular' Yadavs and of course the communists. We have a champion educationist in Arjun Singh who re-writes in a stroke the entire Hindu history to appease his Islamic bosses. We are told time and again by NGOs like setalvad and yellow journalists like MJ Akbar, Seema mustafa et al about Hindu atrocities and muslim oppression. So an average not so street smart 'Ram Bharose' is pushed around in his own backyard, told to behave and now is terrified whether he will get home in one piece to see his family. Pardon me if I have offended any muslim. Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 19	Swaminathan says, "Despite overwhelming evidence of Islamic terrorism worldwide these cohorts talk about 'few muslims' tarnishing the entire community." Muslims live in 50 countries. What percentage of Muslims in each country engage in or are sympathetic to terrorism? The figure would be 1% in the most militant societies like Pakistan, and close to 0 in many other countries. They should of course be condemned, apprehended and hanged, but blaming a community of 1.3 billion people for their misdeeds is not warranted. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 20	Ghulam it is not as the world waits for a muslim carry a rucksack with a bomb or a suicide belt to blow up innocent people and be branded a terrorist. The more dangerous ones are those who covertly or overtly support these breed of bombers. A recent survey in UK after 7/7 has revealed a majority support suicide bombing. Most of the muslims do not report these activities to the police, they sympathise with these bombers. They rub their hands in glee (in their bed rooms and drawing rooms) when innocents are blown apart. They talk of 'to avenge Israel's so called atrocities on palestinians' when heartless Islamic butchers mow down more than 150 children in Beslan. I call these people terrorists as well. Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 21	"The figure would be 1% in the most militant societies like Pakistan" Unfortunately, that is the kind of nonsense that we expect from jihadi leaders like Musharraf, not in a civil discussion... - how does a society in which 44% peopole support suicide bombings, have 1% radicals - how does a society that wipes out its entire minority population accunt for 1% radicals... Can we stop peddling this kind of nonsense, just because we would like to defend "a particular community" - Pakistani terrorism has nothing to do with Indian Muslim society and we dont have to defend the Paki bloodlust, just to defend Muslim society at large. Arindam Banerji Sunnyvale, USA
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 22	Swaminathan, after the London bombings, what emerged was that neither the families of the bombers nor their closest friends knew anything about their involvement in terroristic activity. The concerns of most Muslims, like the concerns of everyone else, relate to earning a daily living, giving food, shelter and education to their children and have the freedom of worship. It is sadly true that because of ignorance some families encourage their children to accept religious mentoring from some undesirable teachers, and it is also perhaps true that Saudi funds find their way into some very dubious activities. Information derived from polls is always suspect, firstly because of the way the questions are phrased, and secondly one does not know the depth or seriousness of the answers given. Even if the percentage of terrorists in Muslim community is only 1%, it is 1% too many. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 23	Ghulam says "Swaminathan, after the London bombings, what emerged was that neither the families of the bombers nor their closest friends knew anything about their involvement in terroristic activity." Well what's the guarantee that the families are speaking truth. I will give you one instance of a pakistani family, Khadr in Canada who were closely associated with Bin Laden. The father was killed in the 'war against the infidels' in Afghanistan. He had bought uo his son as 'true muslims' and wanted them to wage jihad against the infidels. The result his 15 year old son is now languishing in Guantanamo. The rest of the family has ironically moved to Canada to get treatment for some of their Jihadi children for life threatening injuries suffered in their war against the infidels in Afghanistan. Why am i saying this story, 'cause the family vehemntly denied any knowledge of the children's jihadi activities until it was proved beyond doubt. Can't this be the case with other jihadi families across the globe. After all we are talking of one Ummah with one goal, of establishment of Islamic caliphate across the globe. Ghulam: "The concerns of most Muslims, like the concerns of everyone else, relate to earning a daily living, giving food, shelter and education to their children and have the freedom of worship. " ... freedom of worship ? Did i read it right? Now this is where you muslims differ from all of us. Can you tell me who took away your freedom of worship. You are allowed to wail over the loud speakers urging the faithful to pray and of course allowed to pray, be it New York, Madrid, Copenhagen you name it, any infidel land. As far the polls go nothing is suspect. The question was clear and simple. Do you support the suicide bombings? You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand and answer this simple question. While 100% of non-muslims will say a BIG NO, sadly this is not the case with muslims. Yes, 1% of extreme radical muslims, say in Pakistan means 1.5 million sucicide bombers ready to go to paradise and sending on an average 3 kaffirs to 'hell'. So simple math says that almost 5 million infidels will be headed to 'hell'. Even if the percentage of terrorists in Muslim community is only 1%, it is 1% too many Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 24	"Even if the percentage of terrorists in Muslim community is only 1%, it is 1% too many" The more we spread around absurd numbers like 1%, when millions (and probably tens) of Pakis contribute to terrorist organizations, that exclusively specialize in killing Indians - the more we destroy our own ability to protect our own children/citizens. And why is it necessary to do this - just because some in their zeal to "protect a certain community", feel they must defend the bloodlust of the average Paki... 1% is a fringe number - 45% shows that the society is diseased. The difference implies a difference in strategy with dealing with attacks against India. The more we separate Paki behaviour from Indian Muslim society and/or Turkish Muslim society - the better it is. Arindam Banerji Sunnyvale, USA
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 25	Banerji and Swaminathan, It does not take a large percentage of a population to create mayhem. The number of poeople in any community who are politically conscious and activists is usually very small. Granted that in the Pakistani hinterland ignorance and intolerance may be rampant. While we need not defend Pakistani behavior, objective information, if it can be got, would be interesting. Concepts of Ummah and the Caliphate are not live issues among the Muslims I know. I seem to come across these terms mostly in publications from the Pariwar. I did nor mean to imply that Muslims are denied their right to worship. The point I was making was that for the vast majority of Muslims the daily concerns are the same as those of any other community. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 26	"While we need not defend Pakistani behavior, objective information, if it can be got, would be interesting" Go to rediff.com - I usually put enough evidence and data in my articles...also, if you check out sites like Pakistan-facts.com - you'll find most of the evidence you're looking for... Arindam Banerji Sunnyvale, USA
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 27	Any one who presents hard facts against Islamic terror is branded a 'pariwar member' in India. Ghulam is no different. BTW is Sangh so bad. I don't think so. If given a choice between Sangh and Jihadis I will root for Sangh. Simple! They don't behead innocents in the name of God. BTW when did these western writers like Grant Swank, Daniel Pipes etc. become Sanghis? Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 28	Banerji, thanks for the tip. Swaminathan, I too have been struck with the similarities in the publications from the Sangh and the Zionists. If I was faced with the choice of voting for either the Sangh or the Jihadis, I probably would vote for neither. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 29	Faruki __________ Muslim clerics in Pakistan, Britain and other countries have openly said on TV , and in interviews that suicide bombings are all right when fighting people who have occupied muslim countries. Muslim leaders have said the same, and talked about justifiable suicide bombings and terrorism. Muslims columnists in Dawn and Pakistan Link justify jehad. The man who killed Theo Van Gogh said in court that he was acting on behalf of his religion, and adressing Theo's mother said he felt no pity for her because she was a infidel. I think that clerics are truer muslims then you are. The suicide bombers who are willing to die are also motivated by their religion.It is not acceptable that people like you glibly wash your hands of moral responsibility by claiming that muslim clerics are not true muslims, or do not understand their religion. I have watched an Islamic channel in London, and though I could not understand the Arabic spoken , the undertexts were clear. The muslims were the pure and the nonbelievers would end in eternal hell fire. Verses of hating and killing infidels dominated and one or two talked about tolerance, a typical muslim double speek to confuse anyone. A simple question to you. If muslims are like everyone wanting to live like the others, why are they so besotted by their religion, such that they are a people apart from others, with dress, food and behaviour which marks them out to be aliens. Lastly all talk of Allah being the only god, mohammed being his messenger and the Koran being the word of god makes one shake ones head in disbelief. If people wre willing to believe this then one can expect anything however irrational from such people. No wonder irrational muslims are willing to die in order to attain paradise with the 72 virgins. This is clearly stated in Islamic teachings, though people like you try and brush it under the carpet, because even to you its is bizaare and hard to believe. I dont blame muslim kids for their terrorist acts. It is the religion stupid, and this is one thing people tend to ignore, and most muslims try to trivialise. All in all I think it was a big mistake for European countries , to have allowed muslims into their countries. They now face their perennial complaints, threats of terrorism and their contribution to civil society is negative. Europeans are also tired of reading about the continual white wash jobs by people like you. Finally whilst 0.1 % of muslims may committ terrorism, they have about 10 to 30 %support from their communities. This is information from reading British newspapers. lalit bagai kalundborg, Brazil
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 30	Selvan writes: >>Larger goal is to educate the non-Muslims and hope atleast a "few" believing individuals to realise how evil certain teachings are in their "holy book" and try to reform. But it's a much bigger task and can take centuries.. But we have to atleast take the initiative..to educate the evils of this "arab imperialist cult" to the non-believers. I was an apologist for this "cult" and changed only during the last few years. --- OLD MAC writes. Did it coincide with your labotomy? -- Did you mean lobotomy??... Anyways, I think it's a waste of time to indulge in personal attacks.. So would ignore it.. An interesting perspective from BBC. It may be worth noting that the time when these blasts happened roughly coincides with sunset in Delhi, the time for Muslims to break their Ramadan fast. So, if these were Muslim terrorists, they may have calculated that they will miss conservative Muslims who would be at home to break their fasts instead of shopping in the markets. Nadeem Jamali, Saskatoon, Canada -- Selvan Boston, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 31	Lalit, there is no point in trying to reason with people like Ghulam. While he does contribute positively to the discourse, when it comes to issues like these he tends to clam up and go back to the time-tested muslim defence that their religion does not permit such and that it is a peaceful religion etc etc. No amount of evidence to the contrary will convince them. Selvan has posted an interesting perspective about the timing of the blasts coinciding with the time of the "breaking-fast" of the muslims in Delhi - so that no muslim is injured / killed in the attack. What would the defenders of the peaceful religion say about this? The irony is that India is begging to help the quake victims in Pakistan and POK - begging to send helicopters, begging to send money (25 Million Dollars), begging to send relief. And what happens in return - throats of Kashmiri Hindus are slit, Kashmiri Hindus are forced to flee from their homes, Ministers are assassinated, people shopping are blown to bits. We seem to be funding terrorist activities against ourselves. And now peaceniks say with "holier-than-thou" attitudes - The peace process should not be derailed. What is this peace process - where people are being slaughtered left, right and center? Srinivas Delhi, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 32	Srinivas _________ I agree. After every letter I say to myself that is the last. I have said enough. But it never seems to convinces the so called liberal muslims, who want to have it both ways. Be friendly with the nonbelievers and be a part of the muslim brotherhood at the same time.. Perhaps it is not what I would do, but good luck to those who feel this is way to go. After this incident in Delhi where most of my family and friends live I feel - very likely its unreasonable-that I have had my fill of muslims of all kinds. Fat and thin, tall and short, liberals or the holy warriors. After even a cursory check they seeem to be the same,tied to each other by a umbilical cord and implacably opposed to us Hindus. In India unlike other places , muslims have a strategic alliance with christians, dalits , sikhs -anyone else It confirms my belief ,that India should part with the muslim dominated Kashmir valley and be done with it. I like some others am prepared to fight for friends and like minded people, but why should India sacrifice so much for people with whom it has so few shared values. I know that India can do nothing about 150 million muslims, but why do Indian leaders ,people etc want to keep Kshmiri muslims in India in the Union by force. Maybe by parting with Kashmir India will avoid some of the terrorist violence and will also be able to use more of its resources to help Indians who care for India and are not its enemies. Thats it- no more from me on this subject-, and I hope I am not provoked or tempted to write on this subject once again. lalit bagai kalundborg, Brazil
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 33	I think it is no use blaming outsiders when the fault is in our own yard. I do not think I have heard any action taken by any Government in this regard. The reason for it is not hard to find. Where do these terrorist get their oxygen from - The 'Religious Left' the same association of the Communist/Frocks/Muslims. The left provides the 'bleeding heart' (liberal) cover for the frocks and muslims. It is not a misplaced cover, it is a well thought out strategy. Now look at who this left are, where do they come from - Kerala and West Bengal. Kerala is also a haven for this fundamentalistic activity. But they restrict to their own area and try to screw themselver other then some occassion when they go to TN and trigger blast in Coimbatore for which 'Al-Umaa(look at the meaning of the name) is being fried by Jayalalitha without trial. If you have to track their history any independent historian will point out the 'Mobellah Rebellion'(Communist lingo). It was passed off as a communist uprising by the Communist and still is if you look in the history books. In reality, for Caliphate they butchered womens and children. But it is a case closed. But if you look at all the malayalees working in tea-shops and Gulf and trying to a honest living you will leave them. They contribute minor number of seats to LokSabha. They are the second ones after the really big fish,the Shark - 'West Bengal'. If you start talking about WB it will go on and on how they screwed various states at various points of time just to justify Communism and make money out of it, including selling themselves to foreigners. The industrial wasteland of the eastern seaboard. Screwed up Bihar and Orissa, the demographic change being brought up in North Eastern states with the acting conviance of the Bengalis(the dream of 'UNITED BENGAL' tied by common language). It is another thing Bangladeshis have different ideas which coincides with Ummah etc. At the risk of sounding right, I will say I absolutely do not have any problem with 'Bangladeshi hindus' coming to India and settling here. So the only way to break out of this is to throw the 'Religious Left' out. They have to lose both in State and Central Government. This can be done only by the Bengalis. Other Indians can only help. There has to be some kind of activism here. These people have to exposed at all levels at village/Town/City/National/International level. They should not be able to get away by whitewashing facts. It has to be done in a organised manner with Bengalis from all over west bengal leading from the front reporting on their every activity for the whole world to know. How they are brainwashing their kids from the school with their progaganda. What kind of stuff they dish out in their outdated 'revolutionary' books. Their morality and making 'poverty' a badge of honour and making it a tourism industry catering to the foreigners and the frocks. How in there poverty they leave their womens in Brindavan and turn it into a hinduism thing. How they are 'organised thugs' taking money out of the honest hard working people/industralist. If something starts up I am sure other Indians will start chipping in and definetely the industrialist(Gujarat/Bombay/Marwaris) as they have already been labelled as RSS by this goons. Once they are out then the terrorist can be taken to task, till then it is a losing proposition. Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 34	Though i denounce the blasts, i think india should seriously consider carrying out its long promised plebiscite in kashmir. These blasts were wrong(and they certainly are), but we should not forget the accesses commited by indian army on kashmiris. Mixing it with islam is a very convinient way to view things, but it is more complex. waiting for the hate mails, but i am not gonna reply. just a perspective. nits nashville, USA
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 35	Lalit and Srinivas, I have lost count of the number of clerics who have said both on TV and print that suicide and killing of civilians is not permitted under any circumstances In my view, the clerics you have been listening to are wrong. Van Gogh's killer is full of B.S. I am especially mad because I admired Theo's skills as a director, and we are all eternally grateful to his grandfather for the help he gave Vincent, my favorite artist. If L-e-T or Inquilaab or whoever carry out these heinous activities, I wonder why you think I should feel any more responsible than you do? Just because they call themselves Muslims? I do not even consider them to be Muslims. If I feel more angry at them than you do, you are smart enough to figure out why. I agree with you that many Muslims seem to be pathologically possessed or obsessed by their religiosity. Europe went through a similar dark period from the 12th to the 16th centuries. I consider it to be a phase. Concepts of "only God" and "one true prophet" are common to all Abrahamic religions, and need to be taken not too concretely or literally. We all need to learn to respect the religions of others; Muslims need to lrearn this even more than others. I do not know whether Europeans should or should not have allowed Muslim immigration. They knew Muslims long enough, the French in Algeria, the Dutch in Indinesia, the British in India and Palestine, and so on. Regarding the blasts occurring when Muslims were breaking their rozas, what can the defenders of the "peaceful religion" say, except that these criminals have no right to be called Muslims. I agree with you that we have carried this discussion far enough. Ghulam Y Faruki New York, United States
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 36	Headline 1 " Delhi sealed in view of the bomb blasts" Headline 2 " Five points on LOC to be opened" Isn't it quite ironical that the "peace initiatives" with Pakistan are still on when infiltrators from across the borders are wreaking havoc inside the National Capital. What does the government mean when it says that we will fight back? What have successive governments done to fight back? One incident in America and the country goes and rips apart Afghanistan and Iraq. But India? It needs "permission" from its big brothers(read USA and UK) to strike the terrorist camps in our most favoured nation. I am not against peace nor am I keen to use violence. But please this is the limit. What would have the government done if some VIP and not just civilians would have been the victim? Would it have had the same attitude towards this increasing menace? Now is the time for some stern action without asking for permission from others. Hunt down the root of this terrorism. A S Khan Hyderabad, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 37	Superb point by Khan from Hyderabad. It's a joke to seal Delhi but open up LOC inviting the Jihadis. I hope Khan is truly muslim and not a pseudonym Ghulam has at last made some real interesting points after the claims from 'Inquilaab's Gaznavi. Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 AM 38	NITS is back with vengeance. India will never conduct a plebiscite in Kashmir. Don't ever dream about it. Yes we all know the muslim psyche. Kashmir has been India's for eons and will remain so for ever. When non-muslims respond it's hate mail but NITS conveniently forgets his language in most of his posts evn threatening some. Swaminathan Chennai, India
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 39	I agree. But I guess I somehow agree with Laloo, he achieved what he said out to do. He brought out Yadavs numerically strong from lowest rung to somekind of respectable position(if you use the term relatively). As regards Laloo and his position about muslims, you have to follow his earlier position. He changed policy to win. So I still blame Congress/Left for all this. Fool is not the word, it is insidious. This guys are politicians remember that!! They just forgot which side of the butter is buttered. especially for their childrens and future generations Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 40	missed this one - once the yadavas start working and start make good living they will make Laloo change policies or desert him, became right wing and adopt their biggest - 'Krishna Bhagwan'. It is a fact happened everywhere and will happen with them also. Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 41	I think it happened quite sometimes back(before Bofors). He was on the same side as the BJP as regards policies. I have to dig up the exact context. I can dig it out if you really need it. But the point is as long as they make a honest living they will keep off communism and they will move towards right. as the westerners say liberals are closet communist(Congress) Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 42	Frocks say that and is worse in their book about infidels. The funny part is - to know that and know the historical context you have to read 'the Original Marxists' not the 'Religious left'. Free Speech Bihar, India
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 43	Nits ---------- What would be the scenario after the valley leaves India. ny guesses lalit bagai kalundborg, Brazil
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 44	Swami Nathan writes: >>NITS is back with vengeance. India will never conduct a plebiscite in Kashmir. Don't ever dream about it. Yes we all know the muslim psyche. Kashmir has been India's for eons and will remain so for ever. The geo-political equivalent of an obsessive stalker. Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 45	Indians are in general insensitive. 71 people died in terrorist attack still people are busy celebrating diwali. It reminds me of sheep. If one sheep is butchered in front of other sheeps, still those sheep dont feel that it will be their turn one day to get killed. I dont know if we can call it ignorence or selfishness!!! For sheep its ignorence and for humans its selfishness. These terrorists will one day kill everyone brutally but still life continues for indian hindus as usual., when its a routine then how can it fiugure in headlines., ........ eyunni new york, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 46	When this continues., then frocks come around and preach like this., So what your million gods and goddesses are doing when u guys are getting killed by terrorists. Blood of jesus will save you guys., Once you believe that jesus is the son of God and one true god of mankind Jehova (basically a hebrew tribal god) then u will be saved. So stop worshipping dolls and statues and kneel down before son of Jehova the Yeshua and life will be cool. Diwali is actually the haloween the festival of ghosts!!! Hows that.. eyunni new york, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 47	That is the insestiveness of frocks. Mullahs as usual wait for the day when like persia, entire indian subcontinent becomes ummah. They perceive that things are going in the right direction and according to the plan of Allah this time the arab tribal god. Thats the insensitive attitude of Mullahs. Hindus are anyway insensitive to each other claiming one is superior to the other. They remind me of the sheep again. Unless its neck touches the blade of sword it wont re realise that its life is going to end. eyunni new york, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 48	Frocks talk in different language with each and every cast of hindus. When they approach the low class people they say "So why u guys are worshipping Aryan gods when u urself are not aryans" Jesus is for all irrespective of race and natinality. The low caste guys fails to ask "why I should worship the son of the hebrew tribal god when I am not a hebrew". Then the frocks claim again that jesus and jehova are son of god and god for all humans not just hebrews. Then they talk about the prophets and history (old and new testaments) of jews. That all humans came from adam and eve etc., which is again the jewish version of evolution..,and ultimately they baptise that low class guy and will give him some hebrew name., like mathew, john, samuel etc., but again they havent answered how the hebrew tribal god became the god of all humans., When they approach the high castes these frocks talk lot about philosophy and claim that indian philosophy and its philosophers including budha preach negatively and condemn the human life and say everything is illusion etc., so its better to follow the hebrew philosophy than the negative philosophy of india., and so on. Then the learned kick their ass the depreived convert. eyunni new york, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 49	Selvan writes: >>Did you mean lobotomy??... Yes. Glad the procedure didn't affect your spelling capability. Old Mac ???, United States
Oct 31, 2005 12:00 AM 50	Free Booze writes: >>Fool is not the word, it is insidious. This guys are politicians remember that!! They just forgot which side of the butter is buttered. especially for their childrens and future generations All sides of butter is buttered....even prior generations. Old Mac ???, United States

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