Post-Mortem
Lost The Compass?
Rural India is a giant canvas that is begging the media to do a portrait, many portraits. But it has failed — resoundingly.
70,000 Indian millionaires...and growing Page 1 headline, The Times of India, June 11, 2005

"The bottom 400 million is a disappointment and a social responsibility, and while it harbours value (maybe not a fortune), it is a difficult market to tap." Economic Times, March 26, 2005

A lot of reporting on rural India nowadays simply views people there as buyers.

 
 
Model Nafisa Joseph’s death got extensive coverage. But the suicides by thousands of farmers barely got a mention.
 
 
Real or potential. How many cellphones are selling. How many cars. Stories of great yields from miracle seeds. (Never mind that states have begun to ban some of those seeds as the underside of the miracle pops up.) Never mind, too, that nutritional data across the country shows dismal trends.

So the 'bottom 400 million' are not to be viewed as people. (As a separate nation, they'd be the third biggest in the world.) Just as 'a difficult market to tap'. And hence, 'a disappointment'. Shame on you guys down there in the bottom 400 million. That's enough distress and despair. Time to pull up your socks and be better buyers. (And whaddya mean, what socks?) What are the malls for, anyway?

Their own disappointments matter little. The average family is absorbing 100 kg of foodgrain less than what it did in 1991. That should have been a matter of urgent concern anywhere in the world. It hardly draws comment in the media here.

For hundreds of millions of poor, the brave new world of the '90s meant globalisation of prices, Indianisation of incomes. As we moved to boost our welfare state for the wealthy, India turned its back on the poor. Investment in agriculture collapsed, and with it, countless human lives. In the cities, banks offered loans with which you could buy a Mercedes Benz at the lowest interest rates. At the same time, rural credit was wound down. Rural indebtedness soared.

Thousands of farmers took their own lives.

 
 
By 2002-03, the foodgrain available per Indian was less than it had been during the Bengal famine.
 
 
As many as 3,000 of them in a single district of Andhra Pradesh. Work vanished in the countryside. Distress migrations from the villages—to just about anywhere—rose in tens of millions. Foodgrain available per Indian fell almost every year in the 'reforms' period. And by 2002-03, it was less than it had been at the time of the great Bengal famine.

Even as the world hailed our Tiger Economy, the country slipped to rank 127 (from 124) in the United Nations Human Development Index of 2003. This means it was better to be a poor person in Botswana—or even the occupied territories of Palestine—than in India. In the last decade, the Supreme Court pulled up state governments over rising hunger deaths.

But it wasn't just the state that turned away from the poor. Much of the media led the charge in the other direction, celebrating the new order. Through this crisis, it would be hard to find major papers creating new beats to deal with the situation. No full-time reporters to cover agrarian distress. Not even to look at rural poverty as a whole. Very few to track the suicides and migrations. Or the soaring input costs and crashing output prices driving the farmer to despair. Or the hunger of the landless poor.

Now, to appreciate the enormity of this, look at the other end of the spectrum.

Take the 2005 Lakme India Fashion Week. It reflects well the world the media inhabits. Journalists outnumbered buyers three to one. Unlike the bottom 400 million, the tiny number of buyers is not a disappointment.

 
 
While the rich get loans at 6 per cent to buy a Merc, the farmers pay twice that rate for a tractor.
 
 
What's more, buyers at the show were dependent on designers for their passes. The media were not. Their place was assured. What would the LIFW and the media do without each other?

Right now, if all the agricultural labour unions in the country held a press conference in Delhi, they would be lucky if half-a-dozen journalists turn up If they marched in lakhs down the streets of the capital, they might make a photograph and two columns.Never mind that this class is the most vulnerable section of the Indian poor.Or that they—meaning tens of millions of human beings—are at the receiving end of a man-made crisis. It does not make news. Not much.

The LIFW-2004 edition produced, in one count, some 4,00,000 words in print. Over 1,000 minutes in television coverage. Some 800 hours of TV and video footage were shot. And close to 10,000 rolls of film exposed.

Consider that this was the main media event in a country where less than 0.2 per cent of people sport designer clothes. Where per capita consumption of textiles in 2002, at 19 metres, was way below the world average. And this show, too, drew more journalists than buyers.

Or look at the 2004 Diwali special issue of our largest English weekly. It proudly proclaimed an 'India Deluxe'. The cover story was pleased with our progress. In present-day India, it noted, 1,00,000 families earn Rs 50 lakh to a crore each year.

 
 
As earnings per acre of paddy fell by Rs 600 to Rs 900, distress migrations from villages rose in tens of millions.
 
 
There would be 53,000 families earning over a crore by March 2005. And there were 20,000 already at that level.

India has over 180 million households. And the high-income ones add up to a fraction of that total. Indeed, the India Today story does admit that just about one per cent of the population can be called 'seriously rich and affluent'. (As against the frivolously wealthy?)

Consider that this is how it is after last year's polls. It's as if the elections of May 2004 never happened. As if they held no message or warning at all. India Shining might have been rejected by the voters. The media still give it a two-thirds majority.

A two-day dip in the Sensex after the election results were out was covered with far greater passion and intensity than the polls themselves. With much larger headlines, in any case.

The Times of India front page recalled 9/11 as its chosen analogy for the May 17 slide of the Sensex. It splashed the figure 2,340,000,000,000 across the front page just under the masthead. A strap shrieked that 2.34 lakh crore of 'investor wealth' had been 'wiped out'. The loss of this paper wealth was declared in eight-column headlines as Ground Zero. The report's graphic mimicked the attack on the World Trade Centre in New York. An image of the Stock Exchange building in Dalal Street exploding in flames. And yes, with the Left supporting the new government, the villains were clear. The hijacked aircraft ploughing into the Stock Exchange building had the Communist hammer and sickle on its tail.

 
 
By 1996-97, the number of chronically hungry in India hit 19 million. A child dies of hunger every five seconds in the world. The largest number are Indians.
 
 
The villains were easy to locate since the Left had said it would back a Congress-led government.

Within two days, the Sensex showed what The Times now called 'instant recovery'. Paper wealth was back. Fact: an estimated 1.15 per cent of Indian households invest in stocks. On the other side of the fence are 65 per cent of households who do not have even a bank account, let alone investments. (In rural India, that is 70 per cent, according to an analysis of the Census of India household survey.) And where tens of millions of farmers live and die in debt.

The death by suicide in 2004 of a bright and talented model, Nafisa Joseph, got more coverage on television in an evening than the suicide deaths of thousands of farmers had in some years.Nafisa was an aspiring actress, a young life snuffed out in its prime.Surely a very sad event. It first came in as breaking news.It spilt over into numerous sectors of TV programming bar the sports news. It was in the news at prime time. It was there on the celebrity and party shows. Then it returned in the business bulletins for its possible impact on the fashion industry and the stress levels in that sector.


(L)Varsha: w/o Maruthi Rasses, Yavatmal vilage (R) Rukumabai: w/o Digambar Agashe, Malwagad village

Her death was a tragedy. But no less a tragedy were the thousands of farmers' suicides. Those are still to get anything approaching the coverage and enquiry they deserve.

Throughout its history, journalism has attained greatness or notoriety depending on how relevant it made itself to the great processes of its time. That was true of Thomas Paine and the American Revolution. True of John Reed and his Ten Days that Shook the World. And as true of Mahatma Gandhi, B.R. Ambedkar or a Tilak.

If we were to look back at Indian journalism of the last 15 years—how relevant would it be? There were huge technological advances. Major gains in reach and technique. But how did the media connect with, say, the giant processes gripping the Indian countryside? Did it achieve greatness? Even goodness? Perhaps its mediocrity was too pronounced for it to gain even notoriety. (Though a few did manage that.)

So what are the great processes of our time? There are several. Let's look at just six that are surely worthy of urgent media attention.

One, the rapid rise of inequality in our society. Inequality, not IT or software, has been the fastest growing Indian sector this past decade. It has increased at a pace not seen since the time of the colonial raj. And how has journalism dealt with this issue?

The '90s marked the coming of 'theme weddings' in a big way. In these, the wedding is held in a specially constructed replica of some great monument or event. These have ranged from the Sistine Chapel (set up for a Calcutta wedding) to forts and palaces and such. Delhi's unique contribution was a replica of the Kargil conflict. Huge, snowy white tents with dead plastic soldiers, too. Doubtless to remind the young couple of the solemnity of the occasion.

Some of these weddings can cost crores of rupees. They've spawned an allied, wholly new segment of the fashion industry. Of course, all these efforts were put in the shade by the wedding of Laxmi Mittal's daughter. No replica of the Versailles palace would do. It had to be the real thing. And for US $60 million or more, it was. You can see the local variants in any major Indian city today. By and large, the media have celebrated rather than questioned the growth of inequality.

Compare these weddings with what is going on in the countryside. In Anantapur, Andhra Pradesh, and Wayanad, Kerala, for instance, weddings have fallen sharply. No one has the money. A few of the suicides occurred when the farmer found he could not afford his daughter's marriage. Sometimes, the girl also took her own life, blaming herself for her father's death.

Another massive process crying for attention is the ongoing agrarian crisis. The crisis of farmers is not just one of agriculture. It touches every sphere of our lives. The suicides of thousands of farmers are a symptom, not the disease. They are the result, not the cause, of a much wider and deeper rural distress. Indeed, the Manmohan Singh government did, to some extent, recognise this. One of its early actions was to set up the National Farmers Commission under Dr M.S. Swaminathan to study the problem. The very first meeting of that commission—poorly covered by the national media—was stunning.

People from sharply differing, even antagonistic perspectives, were present.When you put bankers and farmers in the same room today, you're organising a riot.And there was quite a bit of fire.There were farmers, labour unions, bank bosses, insurance officers, government officials, scientists and journalists. Yet, across this spectrum, there was unanimity on two things. One, the Indian countryside was seeing its worst crisis in decades.Two, this was policy-driven. Sure, they blamed each other for it. And differed on which policies were at fault and which ones were needed. But on this they agreed: there was a terrible crisis and it was policy-driven.

The meeting threw up some scary facts.The Andhra Pradesh Kisan Sabha brought up hard data on input and output prices in that state. It turned out that you could be a farmer owning eight acres of paddy in Warangal—and still be below the poverty line. This is because the earning per acre of paddy had slipped by Rs 600 to Rs 900 in 10 years. This has to do with a slew of policy measures inflicted on Indian agriculture in the '90s. The collapse of investment in agriculture, the chaos brought into rural credit, and many other policies. It is surely worth investigating. But it's hard to do that when you are celebrating those very measures as the arrival of the Golden Age.

Where is that debate in the media?

They have covered PM Manmohan Singh on the need for bank reforms. But have said almost nothing about the fact that rural branches of banks have declined every year since 1991. Between 1969 and 1990, the number of such branches more than trebled. Once the 'reforms' began, branches began to close. As Dr P.S.M. Rao points out, in 1990 there were nearly 35,000 branches in rural regions. That is, over 58 per cent of total branches. By 2003, rural branches were down. Both in absolute numbers and percentage. Now, they account for under half of the total branches. The more the banks wiggle out, the more moneylenders thrive.

So there's one link of the rural credit crisis staring us in the face. But we don't investigate it. Through the 'reform' years, the rich could get a loan at six per cent interest to buy a Mercedes Benz. A farmer paid more than twice, perhaps even thrice that rate if he wished to buy a tractor.

Growing hunger amongst the poorer sections is another great process. With well over 400 million hungry people, India alone has more undernourished human beings than all of sub-Saharan Africa combined. But this does not seem a matter of grave concern within the media.

Another alarming figure comes from the Food & Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations. The FAO's State of Food Insecurity in the World report 2003 was happy to note that the number of those in chronic hunger fell by 80 million in 19 countries. Yet, it had risen by 19 million in India since 1996-97. Even though this number understates the reality, it's bad enough. Nineteen million is almost the population of the continent of Australia.

It also means that in this period, the number of hungry rose in India and fell in Ethiopia. Both ways, in millions. This face of India Shining finds passing mention in the odd edit. Close-up coverage? Investigation? You must be joking.

The last few years saw another new development. For the first time since Independence, the Supreme Court admonished at least six state governments for their failure to halt hunger deaths. The court even held the states' chief secretaries personally responsible for the deaths. Maybe not a great idea. But at least the court was taking seriously what the media fail to. A child dies of hunger every five seconds in the world. The largest numbers of such kids are Indians.

The next great process going poorly covered is the privatisation of basic services.Private hospitals and institutions have given a whole new meaning to the old adage: Health is Wealth.It puts billions of rupees in their pockets.All the while, the access of the poor to health is falling rapidly. Across most of the country, health has emerged as the second fastest growing component of rural family debt. We now have well-documented cases of farmers in Telangana and Vidarbha regions mortgaging their lands in order to pay hospital bills.

It has gotten so bad that 21 per cent of rural Indians no longer seek medical treatment for their ailments. That's up from 11 per cent a decade ago. Millions are unable to afford the most basic things.And this is made worse by the collapse of rural employment in the last decade—which still continues. In the late '90s, we chalked up our worst rate of growth in rural employment since we first began keeping data. All of 0.67 per cent. Way below the rate at which the workforce populace grew. Working less, for the poor, means eating less. Especially for women who eat last in the Indian household.

Our spending on health is abysmal, less than one per cent of GDP. India ranks 189 out of 192 countries in terms of how much the government spends on health as a share of total health spending. How many newspapers and magazines have full-time health correspondents? How many speak up for public investment in health?

And then there's the privatisation of basic resources. With water being the latest on the agenda. This is a country where almost every long-term crisis has been linked one way or the other to water. Take the Cauvery dispute between Karnataka and Tamil Nadu. Or the Kerala-Karnataka feud over the Kabini's waters. Or the Almatti dam quarrel that set Andhra Pradesh against Karnataka. Or the explosive Krishna waters issue that divides the regions of Andhra Pradesh. Even the Punjab problem of the 1980s had much to do with water disputes between Punjab, Rajasthan and Haryana.

Privatising irrigation and drinking water invites such troubles on a scale we may never have seen. But quite a bit of the media have been supportive of the process. Without even the pretence of investigating it seriously. Meanwhile, Maharashtra has been rewarded with Rs 1,700 crore by the World Bank for doing its bidding. For steering water towards privatisation. Few editorials or in-depth stories. If ever there was a process demanding immediate attention it is this: the rapid move towards water as a commercial good, not as a natural human right.

Through the summer of 2005 when it was a raging 45-48 degree C in the Nagpur rural region, water 'theme parks' and 'snowdomes' functioned in that district. One of them, consuming millions of litres of water, is located in a village where people got water once in five or even ten days.

And of course, there was the assault on the livelihoods on the poor. The state following the worst policies in this regard was Andhra Pradesh. There, not just farmers, but also weavers and other groups, took their lives in despair. There were also hunger deaths as livelihoods vanished. Carpenters in Telangana died of starvation when farming collapsed. When not a single new plough was ordered, when not one new cart was made, when farmers did not recycle their tools—that smashed the carpenters. Remember this was the state the big media held up as the model. No chief minister ever got the press Chandrababu Naidu did.

A conscious drive to get people off agriculture was also a major feature of what happened in Andhra Pradesh. This, without a clue as to where to redeploy them.

Pages: 1   2
 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Nov 21, 2005 12:00 AM
43
As far as i am concerned each and every point in this article is true and touching.We hav to react in some way against these inequalities.
I appreciate the writer for bringing forward these facts.
regards
A media student
malu
trivandrum, India
Oct 16, 2005 12:00 AM
42
I was enjoying bleeding_indian's outrageous rants ( "Soon a day will come !") and here you guys go (Prakash and Ghulam) turning the conversation into a serious analytical mode - truly debating the merits of the article and the facts there.

Why can't we just stick to the hyper-shout-from
the-top-of-the-roof-panic-stricken-I-get-to-decide
-upon-what-your-reality-is-come-whatever-may writing style of bleeding_indian.

It is a great article, even if he needs to be pulled up for these faults that surjit bhalla has pointed out.

"the rapid rise of inequality in our society. Inequality, not IT or software, has been the fastest growing Indian sector this past decade"

This is true, anybody who has been anywhere near the urban centers in india in the late nineties and the last five years, can see the disproportionate distance between the lifestyles of the rich, newly rich , riding the new economy and the people on the fringes left behind. This is a big story - and the media hasn't taken it up - which ultimately is sainath's point. A very valid one. A glaring reality that is not taken notice of at all. One of the photos accompanying the (of the women walking into a shop, while a couple of ragged people watch ) illustrates it eloquently.

Instead of some rumination on what he is saying - the media's obsession which page 3 news, stock markets, and exhorbitant weddings - what one finds is accusations of his being the handmaiden of leftists/communists etc.


Raja
Mountain view, United States
Oct 15, 2005 12:00 AM
41
Ghulam writes >> Sainath's article however, which I liked, came across somewhat like a jeremiad, so some poetic license is permissible.

I can, given my poor literary interests, accept anyone as a poet.

Re the article, in a few areas it blurs the line between a genuine lament and an analysis. I sympathise with the lament but have problems with some of his analysis. Since, presumably, his analysis has lead to the lament, it is imperative that it stands up to scrutiny.

Also, since he wrote about the media's poor coverage, it is not out of place to highlight some bad journalism on his part. Despite this, I consider Sainath as one of the better journalists we have and think that his article is a very good one.

I'll refer to another article by Surjit Bhalla which talks about self serving analysis. While I dont accuse Sainath of this, its something that we need to be vigilant about.


http://www.business-sta...hklogin=N&autono=201781


regards
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Oct 15, 2005 12:00 AM
40
Prakash,

Good of you to provide that link. Sainath's article however, which I liked, came across somewhat like a jeremiad, so some poetic license is permissible.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Oct 15, 2005 12:00 AM
39
Here is a link to an article by Surjit Bhalla that talks about some sloppy work by Sainath in his article. It would be interesting to read Sainath's response to this.


http://www.business-sta...hklogin=N&autono=203017


Surjit makes a very valid comment - "Ordinary folks do not have the knowledge, or the interest, or the time, to fact check the data spitted out by journalists."

regards
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Oct 14, 2005 12:00 AM
38
Raj (from Toronto) and Bleeding_Indian

I am with you when you say that Indian media is very kind to the farcical and hypocritical Left.

The Congress and Left get away quite easily due to the mindless actions of BJP/RSS/VHP.

regards
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Oct 14, 2005 12:00 AM
37
We can easily predict after perusing through all six pages of tears soaked and mascara stained article that once again our pretentious secular political parties are in great distress and on verge of losing the next election after being caught stark naked playing footsy with the Russian Spy Pay Master. And the most damning incident was the final damning verdict termed UNCONSTITUITIONAL, or illegal, or unauthorized, or unlawful or undemocratic by our Supreme Court of our ‘glorious’ communist driven Congress Party’s shenanigan in Bihar, which eventually shattered their inflated arrogant secular ego to pieces and exposed them to the whole world to see, as one hallow ignorant political party loaded, with corrupt and ignorant criminal Lulujis. Folks our pretentious secular fools have not learned to be humble yet. Now it is up to the people of India to make them very humble.

Unfortunately the old habits are hard to break, and our most sycophantic pseudo secular Outlook has once again gone on an offensive for its very defensive Congress master. And as usual the Outlook scribe has once again dug up all those bleeding heart and milk of human kindness type of pretentious leftist pseudo secular ‘Garibi Hatao’ type of propaganda, and well honed and time tested election platform kind of sob articles to generate sympathy. And all those six pages published with mug shots of our pathetic looking Indians in fine clothes and gold jewelry to sway the hearts and minds of the poor and down trodden minorities and also our self appointed intellectual Lalujis like ‘Nits Chaddiwalla’ and ‘Old Mac the Chevron Man’.

Please do take your time to analyze the content of the article, and then refer to the Outlook’s archives and you will be blessed with almost similar articles, playing with the poor people’s emotions, going as far back as the first issue of the Outlook.

Folks, once again our third rate pseudo secular politicians and the news media have started shading crocodile tears profusely, hoping to win election by playing on the emotions of our gullible peoples, and especially our secular Lalujis of India. Reading this bleeding article before the election surely generates a great sense of reoccurring nightmares. Yes, indeed, we have been hearing this kind of bleeding shit for the past fifty years of our glorious Congress Party’s rule. And even today our pseudo secular Communist driven Congress party, and also part time Indian traitors, employed by the Great Russian Spy Pay Master are still locked into the Garibi Hatao mode. Even today it is quite amusing to see this bunch of useless and good for nothing Congress party clowns trying so hard to win election on the backs of our virtual Indian beggars in bondage and our frightened down trodden illiterate and semi-illiterate minorities vote bank slaves.

Good try Mr. Mehta. Try again.
Raj
Toronto, Canada
Oct 14, 2005 12:00 AM
36
The contrast between income inequality and lavish theme weddings is bogus. Income inequality is a result of poor government policy. The lavish weddings are a result of poor taste. Crores cannot buy style or taste and neither can they hide peasant mentality; such as a villager playing his new radio very loudly, well above torture level. The intent is not to listen to it, of course, but to announce to everyone that he has one. A lavish wedding is just a louder radio.
Old Mac
???, United States
Oct 14, 2005 12:00 AM
35
Prakash writes:

>>Even if Bleeding_Indian and Minu Chatterjee are different individuals, they must have talked a lot to each other or must be soul mates!

While the inherent caution of the comments is commendable, in this case, it is unnecessarily conservative. She is Minu_Chaterjee. I remember the psychotic ramblings, bold face type, now the ALL CAPS and the manic/depressive quality of her prose. All taken together, there is overwhelming evidence that she's the wacko. I offered to pay for her sterilization just to protect the human gene pool; it's still open.

Here's a stroll down memory lane:

*********************

Daily Letters | 9 Oct, 2005
Minu_Chaterjee (n/k/a Bleeding_Nonsese) writes:

>>Supreme Court is Idiot to a Evengelical cohort, because they took many bold steps against conversion through allurement!

They are idiot because their legal reasoning approaches your level of incomprehensible psychotic ramblings.

>>So, you bufoon, keep the lecture to yourself. Meanwhile the world is bracing to see how American Supreme Court strikes down row-v-wade. Or how they legislate to question Darwin's theory!

What's the connecting between the last sentence and this sentence? BTW, "row-v-wade" is not a legal case, but alternative means to get out of a flooded city. The actual case is Roe vs.
Wade.

****************************

D
aily Letters | 9 Oct, 2005
Minu_Chaterjee writes:

>>The method applied by you is quite old. I don't care who that lady/lad is. But all other points are rightly understood by you.

You must have been soiled your pants that I could your insane self so quickly in your new avatar (Bleeding_Nonsense). I busted you skanky little lying twit. Remember, the last time your repeated cut&paste mania got your ass bounced off this forum. You are doing it
again.

*****************************
>Daily Letters | 9 Oct, 2005
Bleeding_Nonsense (formerly/known/as – f/k/a Minu_Chatterjee) writes:

>> Mr Old mac opines>>Welcome back Minu Chatterjee. Its the "thoroughly exposed" part that gave it away.

>>I am not sure who this lady is. Seems, she must have tormented you folks pretty well. Throwing mud doesn't rescue you from your fanaticism. Concentrate on the topic.

This is such a delicious diversion from dreadful and dreary conversation partners on this board. Minu, you are such a dumb twit for lying and compromising your integrity over something as insignificant and irrelevant as your prior handle. Let’s review the evidence:

1) Bleeding_Indian / Minu_Chatterjee; same underline between words
2) Psychotic ramblings
3) Repeated cut&paste posts
4) Knowing Minu was a “She” without anyone mentioning the sex
5) Conspiracy nut involving Missionaries, Marxists and Mullahs
6) Repeating phrase “thoroughly exposed”
7) Repeating phrase “old tricks”
8) Quoting Richard Eaton
9) Obsessing about NGO funding
10) Manic/Depressive personality as exemplified by, “That day is NOT far, when religious Conversion will BE BANNED totally. Its creation of missionaries, and who live on their funds themselves.”
11) Multiple Personality Disorder: “Mr. Old Mac: We all are watching.”
12) Here’s a prediction: She will quote Ashish Nandy

All taken together, welcome back Minu. Adding lying to your psychotic personality won’t improve your marriagability.
Old Mac
???, United States
Oct 14, 2005 12:00 AM
34
Bleeding_Indian writes >> Do you understand the difference between 'internal' and 'external' critic? Ambedkar was an internal critic on Indian culture.

NITS writes >> ya, she is minu chatterjee, allright

Elementary, isn't it? Agree 100%. Actually I found this part more interesting than the actual discussion.

Even if Bleeding_Indian and Minu Chatterjee are different individuals, they must have talked a lot to each other or must be soul mates!

regards
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Oct 14, 2005 12:00 AM
33
ya, she is minu chatterjee, allright
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 14, 2005 12:00 AM
32
i read stephen oppenheimer..
he is one of the many view points that exist in the scientific circles, and as of now, is isolated on his views. anyway, eben if you believe him to be true, he argues that africa is the origin of humanity (a well known theory). this in itself is a telling blow in chaddees stance. again, european migration through india would have been possible 1 lakh years ago, but even that does not discount the aryan invasion. you cling to oppenheimer, only because it is a partial validation of your view. why is he right and rest of the scientific community wrong? ask yourself.
end of the discussion.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 14, 2005 12:00 AM
31
January l, 1948
B. R. AMBEDKAR
Hardinge Avenue, New Delhi

The Hindu Civilization has produced three social classes whose existence has not received the attention it deserves.

The three classes are:

(i) The Criminal Tribes who number about 20 millions or so;

(ii) The Aboriginal Tribes who number about 15 millions; and

(iii) The Untouchables who number about 50 millions.

The existence of these classes is an abomination. The Hindu Civilization, gauged in the light of these social products, could hardly be called civilization. It is a diabolical contrivance to suppress and enslave humanity. Its proper name would be infamy.

What else can be said of a civilization which has produced a mass of people who are taught to accept crime as an approved means of earning their livelihood, another mass of people who are left to live in full bloom of their primitive barbarism in the midst of civilization and a third mass of people who are treated as an entity beyond human intercourse and whose mere touch is enough to cause pollution?

In any other country the existence of these classes would have led to searching of the heart and to investigation of their origin. But neither of these has occurred to the mind of the Hindu. The reason is simple. The Hindu does not regard the existence of these classes as a matter of apology or shame and feels no responsibility either to atone for it or to inquire into its origin and growth.

On the other hand, every Hindu is taught to believe that his civilization is not only the most ancient but that it is also in many respects altogether unique. No Hindu ever feels tired of repeating these claims.

That the Hindu Civilization is the most ancient, one can understand and even allow. But it is not quite so easy to understand on what grounds they rely for claiming that the Hindu Civilization is a unique one.

The Hindus may not like it, but so far as it strikes non-Hindus, such a claim can rest only on one ground. It is the existence of these classes for which the Hindu Civilization is responsible. That the existence of such classes is a unique phenomenon, no Hindu need repeat, for nobody can deny the fact.

One only wishes that the Hindu realized that it was a matter for which there was more cause for shame than pride.

The inculcation of these false beliefs in the sanity, superiority and sanctity of Hindu Civilization is due entirely to the peculiar social psychology of Hindu scholars.

Today all scholarship is confined to the Brahmins. But unfortunately no Brahmin scholar has so far come forward to play the part of a Voltaire who had the intellectual honesty to rise against the doctrines of the Catholic Church in which he was brought up; nor is one likely to appear on the scene in the future. It is a grave reflection on the scholarship of the Brahmins that they should not have produced a Voltaire.

This will not cause surprise if it is remembered that the Brahmin scholar is only a learned man. He is not an intellectual. There is a world of difference between one who learned and one who is an intellectual. The former is class-conscious and is alive to the interests of his class. The latter is an emancipated being who Is free to act without being swayed by class considerations. It is because the Brahmins have been only learned men that they have not produced a Voltaire.

--- The entire stuff above is reproduced. Note the year, it was 1948. Has anything changed? In fact there's another group that's missing. It's the fourth class. The OBCs, the farmers who are killing themselves, the stupid monkey brigade Bajrangis comprising of Kurmis who are used by the higher castes to do the dirty job of killing and vandalising while living the "low caste" life.
Raj
Chicago, United States
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
30
chadee line of thinking..............
everybody is a liar. stanfordians and caltechians dont know science. There is nothing called as DNA, the reason why DNA was imagined was to fool indian masses about their origin. the only people who know anything about science and history are from "chddee institute of sciences" nagpur. they dont believe in data analysis. they sit everymorning for a cup of tea, and discuss the sciences..someone says "i dreamt that ayodhya was solved in 1855" someone dreams that so and so happened in 1655, and then everyone nods their head in agreement, like donkeys.
Yes ladies and gentlemen, this is a new branch of science and reasoning, copyright of chaddeeland, nagpur. And it is enjoying enormous support in our educted upper class hindus. JAI HIND.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
29
can anyone from the research field tell bleeding, the authetcity of the published paper in genome (link given earlier). you dont know anything about research, do you? go and enquire with genome, all the best. if you cannot accept a published paper in genome as a evidence, there is no point in arguing with you, end of the matter.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
28
and a published paper based on solid scientific data is a more authentic source of information, than a article by sophist.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
27
you ignorant fool,
this is a Paper in a renound journal. These papers are titled as letters. you cannot send any gibberish to journals like NATURE, SCIENCE, GENOME.it is extremely difficult to get a Paper/letter published in one. infact, it is a matter of pride for the research groups all over the world, when their paper is published in one of these journals, a testimony to their class.
OMG, you have proved yourself to be a ignorant.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
26
genome is wrong. well, nohing more to say
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
25
allright bleeding. galtee ho gaee , maaf karo. indians were the invaders and not the wuropeans, as you say. end of "holier than thou" indians. end of discussion.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
24
Raj has a very negative and patronizing attitude toward the Indian masses. I would never make the claim that the Indian people as a whole did nothing but live within their social strata for thousands of years. I give them credit for more intelligence and dynamism than that. FYI , the population of India during Maurya times was roughly 50 million. India reached 400 million only in the 1940's!
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
23
old mac, now that you mentioned it, i concur.
anyway, bleeding urf (whatever) writes.
>>Almost every line of your history is prejudiced by your religious agenda. The biggest indian political empire was not created by Brits/Mughal, but by Ashoka. Consult Amartya Sen's "Development as Freedom".
and how was ashoka discovered? before 1920's ashoka was all but forgotten in indian legends, were it not for britishers to have systematically initiaited a study in indian history.

>>Aryans didn't come from Europe, it was OTHERWAY round. Read "The Real Eve", by Robert Oppenheimer. Pg # 152, 185 for a quick take.
this is a fallacy well propogated by chaddee gang. at best, this is debatable. instead of sophism churned to make a point, here is a link from a well known internations journal which conclusively proves that brahmins are genetically closer to europeans than dravidians.


http://www.genome.org/c...X=0&journalcode=genome)


minu...er... whoever, then writes..
>>I pity on your fate. How your poverty was utilized by missionaries to fill your heart with hate to your own country, culture. Amazing stuff!

well, i dont think a poor man will be writing from US on a outlook forum, besides, even if there is a 1% chance that RAJ is ex-tribal convert, you should fall on his feet and apologize, instead of expreeing PITY...for all sins that were converted against his tribe, by likes of you.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
22
Repost - corrected

Nits writes:
>> bleeding indian is a typical chaddee influenced person. he believes india was some "sone kee chideeya" before the britishers came and plundered india.

Take this unsolicited advice for what its worth. “Bleeding_Indian,” the psychotic twit, is actually “Minu_Chaterjee." Her cut & paste, stream of conscious, tangential, obsessive, undisciplined, unstructured spamming got so bad last year that the editors booted her ass off this site. I scroll past her spam since it invariably has no redeeming value; not even accidentally or under the lowest of standards. I do occasionally slap her around because of my innate cruelty to animals. Bottom line: reading ingredients of dog food is more interesting than what Minu_Chaterjee has to say.
Old Mac
???, United States
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
21
Arvin writes:
>> NITS and BLEEDING_INDIAN: The postings from both of you are good examples of how to defocus from the actual topic and talk about non-relevent issues like what india was before Britishers arrived and hindus losing to muslims...
Actually this kind of defocussing is so common to Indians that almost every important issue is lost.

I agree. This is precisely why I would read Amartya Sen’s “The Argumentative Indian,” with his thesis that rational argumentation is part of Indian tradition (according to the reviewer), with more than my usual critical eye. The thesis may prove to be true, but I have yet to see examples of such a tradition.
Old Mac
???, United States
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
20
Nits writes:
>> bleeding indian is a typical chaddee influenced person. he believes india was some "sone kee chideeya" before the britishers came and plundered india.

Take this unsolicited advise for what its worth. “Bleeding_Indian” is psychotic twit is actually “Minu_Chaterjee." Her cut & paste, stream of conscious, tangential, obsessive, unstructured spamming got so bad last year that the editors booted her ass off this site. I scroll past her spam since it invariably has no redeeming value; not even accidentally or under the lowest of standards. I do occasionally slap her around because of my innate cruelty to animals. Bottom line: reading ingredients of dog food is more interesting than what Minu_Chaterjee has to say.
Old Mac
???, United States
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
19
BLEEDING_INDIAN - I didn't think it worth replying to your posts 'cause your perception is limited. Anyway, before you go 'OBTUSE' again (borrowed the wonderful word from NITS), stop presuming everyone to be converted Christians or muslims just because he/she points out the muck. (Why am I wasting my time on this sample!)
Raj
Chicago, United States
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
18
Ok, here’s a short History 101 for people who do not get the link between stratification of society and historical relevance. (Some will never get it anyway)

First of all, India as we know today was not the India it was 3000 years back. In fact, India in its present form got its political entity as a single unit because of the British. The subcontinent comprised of small kingdoms with their individual territory, culture, language and social systems, which deviates from state to state even today. Lets ignore that fact and presume India to be the area identified by the Hindu/ Buddhist/Mughal / British Indian culture.

Indus Valley civilization is dated around 2600 BC, that’s 4605 years ago. The Hindu India as we know today probably belonged to some other people at that time, the Dravidians and the Munda family of people (the present day tribals, most of the present day “400 million Indians”).

The Vedic culture is from around 1500 to 500 BC., that’s around 3000 years back. That’s when the Indo-Aryan (Iranian/Persian) “plunderers” started coming in to the present day India. That’s when casteism started. That’s when the “400 million Indians” of today started being treated and ruled as second-class citizens in their own land. Has anything changed for these “400 million Indians”? Yes, things changed for the “invaders” who later became Indians and started running the stratified society. Yes, in the the last 3000 years, the reconfigured “Indian Civilization” has produced wonderful stuff like the Vedas and engineers from IITs and enormous wealth “plundered” by the Mughals and the British and the people from Mars but who were the owners of that wealth? Definitely not the equivalent of the “400 million Indians”. Who did the Mughals and the British rob? Harilal Munda from the tribal village who didn’t have enough leaves to cover his genitals?

3200-1500 BC – Indus Valley Civilization

1500-500 BC – Vedic Culture or Aryan Invasion – Their integration to India – Beginning of caste system and the life of the “400 million Indians”

563 – 184 BC – Buddhism tries to clean up the society. Maurya Dynasty rules.

The “400 million Indians got an opportunity to get out of the crab-basket which was not in the best interest of the upper-caste Hindus. They made it a point to banish Buddhism by hook or crook. Out came the mass-production of ‘shiva-lingams’ and distribution across Buddhist dominated areas. Also started the practice of animal sacrifice during festivals which had more to do with driving away the ‘no-killing’ practice of Buddhism and less to do with satisfying some Hindu God.

184 BC – 1192 AD - There were several kings all over India and state of its share of “400 million Indians” varied among various kingdoms. The fact remained that the social stratification never changed, their quality of life, living conditions and standard of life was governed more by the social stratification rather than who the King was. The “400 million Indians” remained in the same state no matter who ruled. That’s the same state today. No matter who is at the center, they remain as one of the “400 million Indian”. The state of the tribal and lower caste “Indians” in Madhya Pradesh is in no way in a different state of affairs of the tribal in Orissa or elsewhere.

1192-1757 - Muslims ruled India for 565 years. The “400 million Indians” remained as they were. Some got converted but their quality of life never changed.

1757-1947 - British ruled India for 190 years. The “400 million Indians” remained as they were. In fact, the British used the Hindu kings, Zamindars and higher caste civil servants to run the rest of India.

1947 – 2005 - The status of the “400 million Indians” is the same. They are still being ruled the same way.
Raj
Chicago, United States
Oct 13, 2005 12:00 AM
17
All this talk of Hitler, Mussoloni, Stalin and Donald Duck is very silly and way off base. The Indian/Hindu nationalists( the so called chaddis or Sanghis) hold up historical Indian characters like Prithvi Raj, Rana Pratap, Guru Gobind Singh, Shivaji, Suraj Mal and Vijayanagar in the south as great heroes to be respected, honoured and revered. Yes, a major motive for them doing so is because all these individuals resisted Moslem rule or Moslem invaders, successfully or otherwise. That's their right. By all means, try to convince these people that Moslems are not foreigners and invaders, if that's what they are really saying. While you're at it, try convincing the Moslems themselves that they are part of the 5000 year heritage of India, so they won't create any more Pakistans, Kashmiristans or any stans.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
16
NITS and BLEEDING_INDIAN:
The postings from both of you are good examples of how to defocus from the actual topic and talk about non-relevent issues like what india was before Britishers arrived and hindus losing to muslims...
Actually this kind of defocussing is so common to Indians that almost every important issue is lost.
Arvin
Freiburg, Germany
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
15
bleeding, i have one word for you. you are "OBTUSE".
you take a argument, miss the whole point, and tend to go tangentially in your arguments.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
14
bleeding indian is a typical chaddee influenced person. he believes india was some "sone kee chideeya" before the britishers came and plundered india. he also believes that hindus are peace loving masses, who were always victimized. i will give some counterarguments to these.
1) RSS blames mughals of totally plundering india, but when it comes to british, india all of a sudden becomes super rich in 1700s. Truth: there are accounts to prove that india was super poor during aurangzeb's time, when millions of people died during various famines in india. the wealth was of course in palaces.
2)go back more in the history. what does the accounts from the time of beddha indicate? it was same! lot of wealth in palaces, while the masses lay in dirt and squalor . that is what prompted buddha to give up his riches.
3) as far as non-violence is concerned: truth is that hindus simply lost it to islamic barbarians. pre-islamic hindu history is replete with bloodshed and violence. Ashoka, was a ruthless murderer, who had, in the veins of aurangzeb, killled his own family members to become emperor. Chandragupta maurya etc. were all conquerors. they went far from indonesia to iran during their wars.

i cannot say before that, may be india was rich. but raj is right on last 2000 years atleast.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
13
"There were six buses a day from Mananthavady in Wayanad to Kutta in Karnataka in 1995.Now, there are 24 daily, a 400 per cent increase." -- Writer of the article

Mr. Writer, are you sure that it's 400% increase? I would request you to check the figure again.

To Bleeding Indian: You have been bleeding profusely since last few days. Go to a doc and heal your wound.
Tanmay Moulee
Chennai, India
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
12
Very Nice. India certainly need more of such articles and books. The articles perhaps on the Page-3. The page-3 people, the media hungry ones may get attracted.
Somehow its the fault of the Journalists who make the media do what it is doing now.
Arvin
Freiburg, Germany
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
11
Great article...but P.Sainath is wrong to say the public care. In fact, the great Indian middle classes only care about money and showing off - hardly anyone gives a damn about poor prople in India or those who try to help them. There is in fact no Indian "society" as such...people live fragmented lives and are totally immersed in their own problems. As long as people in India don't leanr about social responsibility, only a few will get very rich - the vast majority will only ever exist as an uncomfortable and embarrassing statistic to the media.
Rustam Roy
London, UK
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
10
Raj writes,
>> >> Yeah, the “400 million” should be proud of “our” Vedas. Is it “their” Vedas in the first place?
Bleeding Indian responds
>> Where does Vedas comes onto this? Or is it a fashion to disrepute Indian sacred text because nobody says anything, and you feel embolden?

Bleeding Indian, What makes you think that the only way to counter critique is to take it to a physical level of rioting, threatening etc. It is unfortunate that some people adopt that. But there are other legitimate means of countering critique, like offering rational responses, offering counter critique etc. What is the point in merely suggesting that people are able to critique is only because they are "emboldened" due to lack of physically violent response? (which is anyway not fully true)
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
9
Surely, surely there is a deep irony in the fact that this article is accompanied by "Ads powered by Google". My print out (for I hoped to send this to family back home who have no access to Internet) has "Free Wealth Building DVD" and "Becoming a Millionaire now". Once you have the wealth, you can presumably hotfoot it to "Kuttanadu river resort" or buy "property in Warangal". Worse there is a revolving, continually changing set of advertisements depending on the reader's location - and Google tailors the ads to the contents, only this can explain ads like the ones for suicide prevention and LiveStrong. I wish at least when Outlook decides to run a heartfelt and hard hitting article like Sainath's, it is willing to forgo some revenue and remove ads. Otherwise the web pages make for a hyper surreal world where farmers on the brink of suicide can log on to Outlook and learn to generate wealth or at the very least seek counselling. Welcome to the new media where even an article on poverty, the marginalisation of the poor and market fundamentalism is to be funded by incongruous ads. Even Orwell could not have thought that up.
Anuradha Moulee
Sydney, Australia
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
8
Bleeding Indian,
>> We were rich, before it was plundered by these Western imperialists came. The very reason they came here for trade, Columbus wanted to reach India --not because it was a poor land.

Even today, India is a rich country in many ways and will continue to grow in richness and trade. The real issue is the huge number of people reeling under poverty, disease, inequality, injustice and lack of fairness in representaton in different walks of life.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
7
bleeding, take it easy.
raj was replying to my earlier post. check.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
6
"So the ‘bottom 400 million’ are not to be viewed as people."

"vedas are a high form of philosophy,"
- I agree...

"so it is not that indian contribution is only a zero"...
- I agree...

But the Vedas were not for the consumption of the equivalent of today's "400 million Indians". It was not a "contribution" to the equivalent of today's "400 million Indians" because they were never privy to the “contribution”. Studying Vedas was a crime for the equivalent of today’s “400 million Indians”. The ones who tried to crawl out of their doomed crab-basket had to lose some limb as penance – manipulated through some religious spin.

Yes, it’s a wonderful article with good research and analysis. One of the rare Indian journalists who is true to respectable journalism, I guess.

One sample spin-doctor, an ex-managing Editor says “India Today steadfastly focused on those who had a stake in India. In practice, this meant articulating the interests and worldview of those who stood for social stability, low taxes, resurgent patriotism, ethical politics and a zero tolerance of terrorism.”

That’s the English. Here’s the real translation.

This meant articulating the interests and worldview of those who stood for

- social stability (or social status-quo. Let the 400 million remain wherever they are – maintain the 3000 year old social order and don’t disturb it ‘cause our interest lies in maintaining a status-quo),
- low taxes (let the 2% Maharaja Hari Singhs/ Tatas and Infosys Murthys keep on extracting the fruits from trees planted and grown through public funding using national resources, without paying back to the society they are earning from – yeah, they studied in Govt. funded IITs and their dads worked in Public Sectors or the ex-zamindar’s son got the entire coal-field on lease for a few thousand Rupees for a 100 years and now its his personal property… so what?),
- resurgent patriotism (if you do not support and live the way the dominating 2% asks you to, you are a traitor. If you buy a Valentine’s Day card for someone you love, you are a traitor. In fact, falling in love itself is not our “culture”, hence you are a traitor. If you want to exercise your freedom to choose a religion or way of life, you are a traitor.),
- ethical politics (my dirty games are ethical, yours are unethical. I can use religion to get my votes. It stinks when you do.)
- and a zero tolerance of terrorism (you are a terrorist if you voice against exploitation – most of the naxalites, 60% of North-east, 80% of naked Indian tribals and the like from the “400 million Indians” who fight for the basic necessities are terrorists. There should be zero tolerance for terrorism. So… treat them like shit and shoot them in the head).

Probably this specimen will get a medal from the President of India for outstanding journalism and ‘contribution’ to the society. Which society did he contribute to? The 20% Indians who earn more than $2.00 a day? LMFAO!

Yeah, the “400 million” should be proud of “our” Vedas. Is it “their” Vedas in the first place?
Raj
Chicago, United States
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
5
A very serious indictment of the media which seem to cater almost exclusively to the urban upper crust, grossly neglecting coverage of the rural poor (those "40 crore").
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
4
probably one of the best articles i've read, a telling blow on our media.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
3
i agree with raj...last 3000 years. but then undoubtly, vedas are a high form of philosophy, so it is not that indian contribution is only a zero.
BTW i believe that these 70,000 millionaires are in terms of american dollar. then probably, india has the highest standard deviation from the average natinal incomes! aglaring sign of disparity.
nits
nashville, USA
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
2
Population living below $2.00 a day: 89.9%
Population living below $1.00 a day: 34.7%

Tells a lot about the social disparity, the 'civilization' and the 'culture' of the society. India is not a third-world country, it's a third-world society and a third world civilization. That's how it has been for centuries. The above statistics were the same for the last 3000 years. I'm sure it was worse.
Raj
Chicago, United States
Oct 12, 2005 12:00 AM
1
P.Sainath has done a lot to highlight the plight of the Indian poor. I respect his work despite the fact that I vehemently disagree with his politics.

The Indian press has abandoned the poor fucking villager because He/She is not something that the majority of the public cares to read about. The Indian poor don't titilate the senses as much as the pin up girl. The truth is that had the Indian Public been sensitive enough to the plight of the poor we would have solved the problems of poverty a long time ago. Poverty dosen't sell. The majority of the public sadly dosen't care. The media is just a whore. People want glamour and gossip and not some dying, starving villager.

P. Sainath is mistaken that the public cares. He is barking up the wrong tree. Instead he should go after the apathy of the public; Their mute witness to the tragic poverty around them and their insensitivity to it, for therein lies the real reason that the media will not highlight the misery of the poor.
SC
TN, USA
COLLAPSE COMMENTS   
Post a Comment
You are not logged in, please log in or register
ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SUBSCRIBE | ADVERTISING RATES | COPYRIGHT & DISCLAIMER | COMMENTS POLICY