AP
1984 riots
The Action Not Taken Report
Nanavati report clearly points a finger at Tytler, Kumar and Bhagat, but the Congress-led UPA brazens it out, saying there isn't enough evidence to prosecute. Rajiv Gandhi and Narasimha Rao get a clean chit. Updates
Reactions
While the Congress tries to brazen it out, the government's blatant legalese and bureaucratise has others outraged.
It has been more than 20 years when, after the assassination of Indira Gandhi, a brutal carnage of estimated 3,000 Sikhs took place in the national capital (initially dismissed by the then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi as: "when a big tree falls, the earth is bound to shake") and after many commissions of enquiry had failed to bring any of the prominent guilty to justice, the Nanavati Commission of Inquiry had been set up by the NDA government way back in 2000, and had submitted its report to the current UPA government as far back as February 9, 2005.

While there has been considerable press-coverage of the "Gujarat riots" of 2002 and while our railway minister had cynically exploited the strangely timed release of the interim report on Godhra by the Justice U C Banerjee committee before the Bihar elections, the central government had avoided even tabling the final report by the the Nanavati Commission of Inquiry till today, when the statutory six months limit of placing an Action Taken Report (ATR) was coming to an end.

It is yet another irony that the same 70-year-old Justice G T Nanavati holds the key to delivering justice on the two worst riots witnessed by Independent India, the 1984 anti-Sikh riots and the Gujarat riots of 2000, and was appointed by the BJP-led NDA government.

The report raises questions over current Union Minister and Congress leader Jagdish Tytler's role, saying it was "very probable" he was involved. It further says Member of Parliament Sajjan Kumar's role should be re-investigated. Despite the fact that the Nanavati report clearly points a finger at Tytler, Kumar and Bhagat, the Centre says there isn't enough evidence to prosecute. Significantly the then interim Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi and the then Home Minister Narasimha Rao have not been blamed at all.

Instead of any action against the guilty, various Congress spokesmen have been shamelessly claiming "victory and vindication" on the grounds that the then central government of the time has not been named, as the report says there is "no evidence suggesting that Rajiv Gandhi or any other high-ranking leader had suggested or organised attacks". Justice Nanavati maintains that he had to go by the evidence which was placed before him; and it is not exactly a state-secret as to how common and easy it is to have statements withdrawn or changed, or simply to not record them, or to have shoddy collective investigations without focussing on the virtual who's who of the Congress party of that period, many of whose leading lights continue to be ministers and members of Parliament even today or of the police and the administration.

Predictably, the ATR capitalises on the wording of the report and the home minister, that worthy of immaculate misconception, has blithely decided to also highlight that only "local level leaders" of the Congress were found to have been involved in instigating the violence and in participating in it.

But when specifically asked about the three Congress leaders Sajjan Kumar, Jagdish Tytler and H K L Bhagat whom his report points a finger at, Justice Nanavati indicates that the ATR had clearly ignored his suggestions.

Critics and human rights activists who have battled for justice for riot victims have accused Nanavati of creating scapegoats in the Delhi police and local Congress workers and letting the top leadership off. The BJP which reserved most of its criticism for the ATR and the centre however did say that the clean chit to the Congress top leadership was not credible.

In this regard, what could be more ironical than the fact that the same day also saw the Supreme Court passing severe strictures against the Gujarat administration where it said: "Either the police are conniving with the accused or wholly worthless"?

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It is pertinent to note that in November 1984 itself, a joint inquiry by the PUCL and PUDR had come out with a comprehensive report on the 1984 riots that has been called a prototype for citizen's response which had, based on the eye-witness testimony, named not only the Congress politicians but also the police and other administrators who had been directly implicated by the survivors and eye-witnesses.

In many significant ways, the whole carnage of 2002, as has been widely commented, used the 1984 barbarity as its blue-print. While it is unquestionably and undeniably true that justice has to be on the basis of evidence, the Congress party owes it to the country that it stops hiding behind legalese, clutching at technicalities, pleading lack of "evidence". It is the public perception which needs satisfaction. And for that it is important that those perceived to be guilty are kept away from positions of power, pending an independent focussed enquiry.

Highlights of the report:

On Jagdish Tytler, Congress, Union Minister

Nanavati Commission: The Commission considers it safe to record a finding that there is credible evidence against Jagdish Tytler to the effect that very probably he had a hand in organising attacks on Sikhs. The Commission, therefore, recommends to the government to look into this aspect and take further action as may be necessary.

Action Taken Report: On completion of investigation, nine challans were filed in which 14 persons were accused and ten were cited as prosecution witnesses. After completion of the trial, 13 of the accused persons were convicted and one was declared as proclaimed offender by the court. In another case, a court acquitted all 31 accused persons and Tytler was not named as an accused. In view of the fact that the Commission itself is not certain that Tytler had a role in organising the attacks on Sikhs and in the context of the judicial verdicts on the incidents mentioned in the Commission's report, any further action will not be justified. It may be pointed out that in criminal cases, a person cannot be prosecuted simply on the basis of probability.

Jagdish Tytler, Union Minister, Congress: Do not attach my name to other Congress leaders (who have been named in the report). The Commission has based its remarks on me on the basis of an affidavit filed by one Surinder Singh, which was later withdrawn by him. There have been nine inquiry commissions on the riots but barring the Nanavati Commission none have held me responsible for attacks on Sikhs. I do not know how come my name figured in this Commission of Inquiry. I approached the High Court and it ordered another inquiry and I was exonerated. I was with the body of late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi for eight hours and later I was out of Delhi. How could I have organised the mob that killed Sikhs. Anyone who is responsible for the killings should be given severest punishment.


On Sajjan Kumar, Congress, Member of Parliament, and Balwan Khokhar

Nanavati Commission: There is credible material against Kumar for recording a finding that he and another Congress leader Balwan Khokhar were probably involved as alleged by witnesses.The Commission ..recommends to the government to examine only those cases where the witnesses have accused Sajjan Kumar specifically and yet no chargesheets were filed against him and the cases were terminated as untraced and if there is justification for the same, take further action as is permitted by law.The cases which were closed as untraced and which still deserve to be re-examined are those registered under three FIRs in Sultanpuri Police Station, two FIRs in Mangolpuri Police Station and one FIR at Delhi Cantt Police Station.

Many witnesses have stated about the involvement of Sajjan Kumar, Balwan Khokhar, Pratap Singh, Maha Singh and Mohinder Singh. There is ample material to show that no proper investigation was done by the police even in those cases which were registered by them. Even while taking their statements, the police had told them (complainants) not to mention names of the assailants and only speak about losses caused to them. There is also material to show that the police did not note down the names of some of the assailants who were influential persons.

In view of these facts and circumstances and considering the fact that Sajjan Kumar and Balwan Khokhar were influential persons in this (their) area, their acquittal in criminal cases cannot be given much importance...Sajjan Kumar and Balwan Khokhar were leaders of the locality because of which there is no question of their mistaken identity. Why so many persons had named him (Sajjan) and attributed acts like addressing meetings and inciting people to kill Sikhs and to loot and destroy their properties, remains unexplained by Sajjan Kumar. A technical defence by Kumar that these witnesses had not named him before the police or in the courts is not a good explanation for disbelieving those witnesses.

Action Taken Report: The incidents regarding arson and looting in the riots that followed the assassination of Indira Gandhi in area under Police Station Bara Hindu Rao in the capital, burning of Gurdawara Pul Bangash and killing of Thakur Singh and Badal Singh on October 31 and November one, 1984 were investigated.

None of the 96 prosecution witnesses, who deposed before the court, named Sajjan Kumar as an accused. Kumar was acquitted by the court of Manju Goel, Additional Sessions Judge, Patiala House Court, New Delhi, vide her judgement of December 23, 2002 in a case by CBI on the basis of the affidavit filed by Ms Anwar Kaur before the Justice Jain-Banerjee Committee

No fresh material or evidence has been produced before the Justice Nanavati Commission against Sajjan Kumar in connection with incidents of riots covered under an FIR in Sultanpuri Police Station. Therefore, it will not be just to reopen this case.


On Dharam Dass Shastri, Congress leader

Nanavati Commission: There is credible evidence against Dharam Dass Shastri that he had instigated his men, Tek Chand Sharma and Rajinder Singh to organise attacks on Sikhs. The government should examine the relevant material and direct investigation or further investigation as may be found necessary with regard to the allegations.

Action Taken Report: The incident was earlier investigated in connection with an FIR in the Karol Bagh Police Station and a chargesheet was filed in the court against ten persons. On completion of trial, the court of Additional Sessions Judge S. S. Bal in its judgement on November 12, 1992, had convicted two of the accused, namely Tek Chand Sharma and Rajinder and acquitted the rest. Shastri was not named as an accused in this case. However, as recommended by the Commission, the government would examine the factual position for appropriate action.


On Delhi Police

Nanavati Commission: If timely action had been taken against rioters, probably many lives could have been saved.
Police personnel remained passive and did not provide protection to the people. Such riots should be controlled effectively, police should function independently and all complaints should be registered and investigated by independent agencies.

Action Taken Report: The Government endorses these observations and it has decided to advise state governments, union territories and Delhi Police to take necessary action accordingly.

On S. C. Tandon, the then Delhi Police Commissioner

Nanavati Commission: It is no explanation to say that he was not properly informed by his subordinates. It was his duty and responsibility to remain aware of what was going on in Delhi during those days and to take prompt and effective steps. He should have known that the policemen on the spot were ineffective and in spite of the curfew, mobs indulging in violence were moving freely and were committing acts of looting and killing freely.

Action Taken Report: Tandon was replaced on November 12, 1984 and he has since retired. As mentioned earlier there are legal difficulties in taking departmental action against retired government servants. However, the government would examine this matter further in consultation with the Ministry of Law for appropriate action.

On other police officers

Nanavati Commission: Police subinspector Hoshiar Singh and his men did not protect a gurdwara and did not disperse the mob that had assembled there to unleash violence.

Action Taken Report: Action cannot be taken because Singh and the two constables are now retired. The government will consult the law ministry if action can be taken against them.

Nanavati Commission: There should be an Inquiry against subinspector Mange Ram for dereliction of duty.

Action Taken Report: Legal hurdles in inquiry because he has retired from service.

Nanavati Commission: Action should be taken against following officers as they were negligent in performing their duties:
Deputy Commissioner of Police of South district Chander Prakash; Station House Superintendent of Srinivaspuri O P Yadav; Station House Superintendent of Delhi Cantt Rohtash Singh; Station House Superintendent of Nizamuddin Ram Phal; Subinspector Ved Prakash; and head constables Shakti Singh and Mahinder Singh.

Action Taken Report: No evidence against some policemen while others are retired.


On Padmakar Gavai, the then Delhi Lt Governor

Nanavati Commission: Though he does not appear to have delayed taking of required actions, it does appear to the Commission that he did not give as much importance to the law and order situation in Delhi as the situation demanded. He (Gavai) was the person responsible for maintenance of law and order in Delhi and, therefore, he cannot escape the responsibility for its failure.

Action Taken Report: The government had taken immediate administrative action. Gavai was replaced by M.M.K. Wali as LG of Delhi on November 4, 1984.

Padmakar Gavai, former Delhi Lt Governor: Narasimha Rao was only making calls to me to protect his friends and telling me their locations. I approached then Army Chief General Vaidya but his response was too cool. He told me Gavai these things normally happen. I had asked General Vaidya for sending the Army to quell the riots but his approach was totally negative. I took H.K.L. Bhagat, then Information and Broadcasting Minister, but he too was not keen to suppress the riots. It is not the Lt Governor's responsibility alone to control riots when Congress stalwarts were in the union government. We were short of men (police) and the leaders lacked political will.


On the delay in calling the Army

Nanavati Commission: The Commission agrees with the findings of the Justice Mishra Commission as regards the delay in calling the army as also its recommendations for preventing the occurrence of such incidents again. The panel would, however, like to recommend that such riots are kept under check and control and there should be an independent police force which is free from political influence and which is well equipped to take immediate and effective action.

Action Taken Report: The government accepts these views of the Commission. Accordingly, state governments, union territory administrations and Delhi Police will be advised to take necessary action.


On Rajiv Gandhi and the Congress party

Nanavati Commission: No evidence suggesting that Rajiv Gandhi or any other high-ranking leader had suggested or organised attacks. Whatever acts were done, were done by the local Congress leaders and workers, and they appear to have done so for their personal political reasons. The local leaders of the Congress appear to have taken the help of their followers and supporters in inciting or committing those acts. If they (riots) were the acts of individuals only, then the killing of Sikhs and looting of properties of Sikhs would not have been on such a large scale.

It was suggested that Rajiv Gandhi had told one of his officials that Sikhs should be taught a lesson. The Commission finds no substance in that allegation. The evidence in this behalf is very vague. It is also not believable that Rajiv Gandhi would have stated so to an official assuming that some conversation took place between him and that official. It does not become clear that in respect of which subject the conversation had taken place and in which context Rajiv Gandhi is stated to have said 'Yes, we must teach them a lesson'.

The evidence suggests Rajiv Gandhi had showed much concern about what was happening in Delhi. He had issued an appeal for remaining calm and maintaining communal harmony. In view of the complaints received by him that people were not able to contact the police on telephone no. 100, Gandhi had immediately called some police officers and told them to take immediate action so that anyone who wanted to contact the police could do so.

He had even visited the affected areas on the night of November 1, 1984.

Anand Sharma, spokesperson, Congress: There is no indictment. No evidence. Not actionable. The Commission had merely said that Tytler had very probably had a hand in organising the attacks. There cannot be any prosecution under criminal law for probability. It is condemnable to drag the religion of the Prime Minister in this. (On BJP leader S.S. Ahluwalia's statement that Manmohan Singh's image had taken a beating in view of the Commission's findings).


On rehabilitation work:

Nanavati Commission:
The government should take steps so that everybody is compensated and the affected families are rehabilitated. The government should consider providing employment to one member of the family if that family has lost all its earning male members.

Action Taken Report: The government accepts the view.

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Reactions
While the Congress tries to brazen it out, the government's blatant legalese and bureaucratise has others outraged.
 
Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Aug 13, 2005 12:00 AM
63
Prakash: "Anyways, Manmohan Singh is one of the best politicians that we have - hats off to him"
Are you kidding me? He would not know a Politic if you hit him on the head with it.
After his response to this report, is there any doubt left that he is not a spineless puppet of his uneducated Italian boss?
Adi
XXXXX, USA
Aug 13, 2005 12:00 AM
62
Arun pukes: "My opinion of the "deeply unjust culture" is based on emperical observations ... of myself, my family "... That about says it folks!! What else can you expect from a person who confesses that he is crom a unjust corrupt family and is personally so? Must be a Congress leader!
Adi
XXXXX, USA
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
61
Arun, don't want to digress any more - I appreciate your concern for discrimination and injustice and share it - but think that it should not be seen as any one community's problem - rather it is everyone's responsibility. I would say the same of all kinds of racism and supremacist thought - its sick whether its based on the shape of your nose, your name or your religion.
S. Vinay
Coimbatore, India
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
60
In response to S. Vinay's response to my response .... you can see this is actually getting to be an addiction - enjoyable too.

I have not heard of "culturalist" approach and Max Weber .... Samuel Huntington only to the extent that he wrote "The Clash of Civilizations" ... haven't read it nor intend to. In anycase that's probably not the main point either.

As regards my opinion that we are a deeply unjust culture. First I must clarify this is not in relation to anyone else. Others may or may not be unjust .... may or may not be deeply or may or may not be more/less than us ... in the past or present or future. To me relavitism on this isn't important .... as I am interested in the India of today and it's future evolution .... others I am sure will find their own ways (and if in my next life I am somewhere else I can care about that). IMHO, "think locally - act locally" is good enough ... and for me local is the India as I know it today (Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan, Burma, Sri Lanka, etc. etc. ALL EXCLUDED).

My opinion of the "deeply unjust culture" is based on emperical observations ... of myself, my family (nuclear, immediate, extended), my neigbhors, contact-network (6-degrees of separation), and then the larger culture as seen on the street and thru the newspapers/TV/media/books.

I am not sure how to convince someone else about this BUT I don't see anything that tells me otherwise either to change my opinion on this. To me as of now, to borrow a phrase with a bit of change, it's "a million injustices now" and new ones being added every day rather than reduced.

Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
59
The begging & crawling may be worse in AIADMK and I suspect many other political parties too. However that was the first time we got to see the whole unedited spectacle live on TV with excited TV reporters cooing about the same being a momentous event blah blah. And as the final act we had the son walking out very grandly and then dramatically announcing to the camera about meri maa being my hero. The only thing missing was the thunderclap etc that usually follows such scenes in the movies.

India's first reality television show and boy did it defeat all those american reality shows in terms of maximum embarrasment, maximum tears, maximum fools & of course maximum drama.
Deep
delhi, India
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
58
An interesting article by Saisuresh in rediff. He correctly points out the difference in treatment received by congress after the sikh massacre of 1984 and modi after the gujrat riots. Mr.Tytler who was involved directly with the massacre was allowed entry into America with nary a voice being raised by the human rights commisiion, the teesta setlevads and their assorted social?? activists whereas a huge hue and cry was made by the above mentioned activists over Modi's visit to America. And America of course the great beholder of human rights denied entry to Modi.

Of course this kind of farce can only be played by the extreme Indian leftists and extreme American rightwingers.
Deep
delhi, India
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
57
>> I have seen many horror movies but nothing can beat the horror & shame I felt seeing grown up men & women begging & crawling towards a person in full public view asking her to become OUR PM

Please make a trip to Chennai and you can witness more of such stuff in AIADMK.
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
56
Yes manmohan's apology was sincere and heartfelt, however one should not forget the true boss of Congress. If manmohan had been given a free hand I do believe that the Jharkhand Fiasco and the mockery of the ATR would not have happened. Being a decent and sensitive person he would have gone about the same in the right manner.
Which brings me to his boss the 'Saint'. Whatever little respect I had for this media crowned saint evaporated the moment I saw the reality television about her "sacrifice". Bigger decisions have been made in privacy so what was this big need for a public tamasha. A decent human being would have convened a private meeting with her party members , thrashed out all the issues privately and then informed the public about the final decision. The tamasha I thought was actually making a mockery of the office alongwith everything else. I have seen many horror movies but nothing can beat the horror & shame I felt seeing grown up men & women begging & crawling towards a person in full public view asking her to become OUR PM. That was a very shameful episode for India and Indians and I can never forgive the current congress party for it.
Deep
delhi, India
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
55
>> Hope it will be emulated after future carnages.

That sounds more like cynicism than hope.

Anyways, Manmohan Singh is one of the best politicians that we have - hats off to him.

regards
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
54
Manmohan Singh's apology was indeed a class act. Hope it will be emulated after future carnages.

Arun, I'm sure you mean well, but your approach is a "culturalist" approach - Max Weber's approach - the idea that "cultures" have "essences" - its Samuel Huntington's approach as well. I consider it a politically conservative and even regressive approach, definitely unscientific. Its a bogus and ahistorical way of looking at things, and can tend dangerously close to racism. Next we'll be saying Africans have an "essence" and Mongols have an "essence" and what not. Hindus and Muslims have "essences" and so do there must be a Christian "essence" too. I think all this is nonsense!

For instance I don't know what an "unjust society" means given that over 85% of its people are not heard from in historical records. Was this 85% "unjust" too? Are we counting them in our sweeping statements about who was "unjust" etc.? That's the problem with generalizations. They also tend to reveal who you take as typical and representative and in such cases its not the majority of the country. Its like describing French society solely through the sayings and doings of its elites.
S. Vinay
Coimbatore, India
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
53
Varun writes .... "Arun, in 5000 years of Indian history, India did not remain fixed and unchanged. It had periods in which it was prosperous and stable, others when it was less so. All the literature of the time and the eye-witness testimonials of Greek, Chinese and West Asian visitors to ancient India speak of the general level of well-being. Poverty, starvation, disparity were not the first things mentioned by these individuals; in fact quite the opposite conditions! This ossification/hardening of caste categories may be a much later development,related to the defensiveness of Indian society faced with massive upheaval created by foreign invasions."

My comment about "unchanging" was specific to the a SINGULAR DIMENSION, IMHO, a deeply "unjust" culture. It's hard to be sure of anything of the past but I feel on this one dimension by and large it has been "unchanging". In other dimensions, like all/many other cultures "change is the constant" as they say, for good or bad. However, I don't think ossification/harderning of caste was a result of foreign invasions. Again, IMHO, it was the other way, caste had made us weak internally, and hence prone to "foreign" invasions and control. After that it's very possible further process of ossification/harderning happened due to foreign invasions like in any catch-22 situation. At the time the notions of "caste" were formulated, it well might have been an enlightened concept relative to other prevalent concepts of dealing with diversity but it's subtelty, insidious nature and intertwining with religion has made it difficult to remove. Some attempts of Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Gandhism have either had very limited or no positive impact compared to the negative impact of the problem in the first place. In fact in many reform movements, caste covertly come back. I am only hoping the new mix of urbanization, and industrialization will slowly and steadily but more surely erode this problem. But at best it appears to be a hard steep hill with a slow climb - one step forward and 2 backwards.
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
52
This is a class act :


http://tinyurl.com/8unun
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
51
>>"This ossification/hardening of caste categories may be a much later development,related to the defensiveness of Indian society faced with massive upheaval created by foreign invasions."

Digressing from the article, but....

There is a grain of truth in what Varun said. The oppression of those at the bottom of the hierarchy does increase when more and more revenue is skimmed off the top. (You need to exploit people more). It need not be only a "foreign invasion" - large states/kindgdoms based on agricultural revenue also tend to make this happen. Subsistence farming, hunting-gathering communities, dry zones etc. tend to have less or no caste stratification. Imperial rule based on agricultural revenue tends to strengthen any oppressive apparatuses. Of course new opportunities may also be created as the economy diversifies. (Both things happened under British rule - on the one hand strenghtening and spread of caste stratification even where it didn;t exist before, on the other hand new opportnities created in the army, sea-travel etc).

If you remove the religious lens the whole issue becomes less emotive. No religious community is innocent in this whole caste thing, and oppression and discrimination is surely something everyone should care about - it isn't just one community's/country's problem.
S. Vinay
Coimbatore, India
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
50
Old Crackpot: "As a merciless critic of the Indian political culture and its broader culture, ..." - Tried getting a job recently?
Adi
XXXXX, USA
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
49
Prakash writes:

>>We have such low expectations from the various parties/government and public institutions that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy

Everyone-people, organizations, political parties, children, dogs-plays up to or down to expectations.

>>A major stumbling block is that our electorate is fragmented with different and often incongruous expectations that all that the political parties need to do is to play identity politics/to pit one against the other and enjoy the spoils.

Fragmented electorate can't be wished away. Moreover, expecting a unified electorate in a country with a billion people is unrealistic. Its precisely because we don't have anything that unifies us, our differences become accentuated. Even if we did have an ideology around which every Indian can agree upon regardless of caste, religion or wealth, there will always be political conflict. That is the nature of society.

Fortunately, this is not a novel political question in human history. Even though you might not like the U.S., you should read The Federalist Papers. It starts with the premise that every society is rife with "factions" which cannot be suppressed. Therefore, American Founders constructed a flexible and adaptable political structure which generally results in one faction cancelling or mitigating another faction while the general public interest prevails. While that's the theory, everything starts with a theory. We can then gradually modify the government with experience.
Old Mac
???, United States
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
48
>> in order to raise the bar in what we expect out of our political parties.

I entirely agree with this statement. We have such low expectations from the various parties/government and public institutions that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. We should move from "government cant and wont do anything" to we should make the government do what we've voted them to do.

A major stumbling block is that our electorate is fragmented with different and often incongruous expectations that all that the political parties need to do is to play identity politics/to pit one against the other and enjoy the spoils.
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
47
Prakash writes:

>>I agree. However, moral high ground is such a slippery surface that no one can claim it forever. In fact, right to claim moral high ground can be made a constitutional right as it seems to be our national pastime.

Moral high ground isn't meant to be a platform for people to stand. It is a fixed standard of conduct that everyone can evaluate himself against and correct himself when he falls short. I like people appealing to a moral high ground in their argument. They are implicitly asking to be judged by an external standard, however derived, rather than a purely subjective standard of conduct. The subjective standard tends to be lower for those we like and higher for those we don't like.

>>It as much mine as it is yours. I stay a fair distance away from both Congress and BJP.

In which case, we are both of one mind when it comes to political parties.

>>BJP for all its grandstanding is a wannabe Congress. In my opinion, it will do exactly what the Congress did (or didnt do) if it holds power long enough.

While I think Congress is evil and incompetent, BJP's appeal to baser instincts of the bigots makes it evil, incompetent and dangerous. However, its like asking to choose between two fleas on a dog's ass; not exactly an appealing choice. That is why I have been arguing consistently that the political culture needs to change in order to raise the bar in what we expect out of our political parties.
Old Mac
???, United States
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
46
Arun Maheshwari writes >> some giving up the past of some long cherished beliefs will have to happen

>> >> Hindus as the dominant culture have to look hard at themselves and not just keep asking "others" to look at themselves.

Absolutely, we should give up those beliefs that will not do us any good in the future. I am all for critical evaluation of our past rather than treating it as perfect and taking responsibility for our future. In the process we should find answers to questions such as what is it about us that let us be ravaged for many centuries, why are many sections of our society so alienated, what do we do about the stratification of our society that seems absurd in the present context, are we guilty of many crimes that we accuse others of.

>> At the individual level Karma might have the positive light you allude to but I do wonder as a collective society/culture is this where the problem began. Everything in my opinion has good and bad as two sides of the coin.... question is how do we make sure the coin never falls on the "bad" side.

Sanatana dharma has been reliant on a few extraordinary personalities to revive and rejuvenate it. Sadly, our present day spiritual gurus seem to be too engrossed in the past to think about the future. (Some are waiting for Kalki Bhagwan to appear). The answer to your question, therefore, it is upto the Hindus to ensure that we don’t regress – the onus is on us and if we don’t we’ll bear the results of that karma.

>> My sense is we hark too much on the past glories and more because of a missing future vision.

We are misty eyed about our past because our present is not good compared to others and we find comfort in our distant past that seems to hold well against many others.

In short, i was just responding to your comment on karma. Otherwise, we seem to be on very much the same boat.

regards
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
45
>> Besides, the Cow Party doesn't exactly have moral standing to be throwing bricks at anyone does it given its pooh-poohing of what happened just a couple of years ago in Gujarat, no?

I agree. However, moral high ground is such a slippery surface that no one can claim it forever. In fact, right to claim moral high ground can be made a constitutional right as it seems to be our national pastime.

>> I hate it less than I hate your Cow Party.

It as much mine as it is yours. I stay a fair distance away from both Congress and BJP. BJP for all its grandstanding is a wannabe Congress. In my opinion, it will do exactly what the Congress did (or didnt do) if it holds power long enough.
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
44
Arun Mahes writes:

>>Looking at self hard in the mirror with a vision for the future is not about low self esteem. The fear of low self esteem shouldn't also result in bloated self esteem (which I happen to believe is problem we do face in India Today).

Its actually a massive insecurity that masquerades as truculant boasting.

>>I still recall my mother's comments when she visited me while I was in US ... after a few days of watching the TV, she said most of the American programs are about the "future" and most of the Indian programs are about the "past" ... both in their own ways extreme ends of the spectrum missing the present. A very astute commentary, I thought, on the fundamental difference of two societies in different timeframes

Very perceptive your mother. She is right. My grandfather merely observed that "there isn't even one piece of garbage on the road"; But he did presage the wild popularity of wrestling over 20 years ago because he always wanted to watch the "kusti" program on TV.

I think you might be shortchanging about how much the Americans care about their history given the popularity of geneology as a hobby and plenty of high quality history programs on Television with dedicated History Channels. Its just they are not prisoners of their history. Their attitude is no matter what happened through yesterday, today is the first day of the rest of your life.
Old Mac
???, United States
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
43
Vikas R writes:

>>But then gestation takes its own time , if in one event the gestation period is 21 years let us wait at lest 15 years before we start judging the 'evidence' against the 'guilty' of Gujarat.

An unkind person can conclude that you are retarded from your "gestation" comment. I would argue that passage of time makes criminal evidence "stale"; witnesses die or leave, memories blur with time. That means punish the criminals involved in Gujarat without delay. Moreoever, precisely because bad guys got away with murder in 1984, we shouldn't compound that moral failure with another moral failure; especially when we can prevent it. As the cliche goes, two wrongs don't make a right.

Besides, if you put the country's political health ahead of your party loyalty, you will see that punishing bad guys in Gujarat sets a standard of conduct for every political party in the future including Congress.

>>Poor Mr Tytler, he had to prove his loyalty once in 1984 and now he is being asked to prove it allover again to the Saint by resignig his hard earned job.

Politics ain't bean bag. Its a rough bloodsport. It always was and always will be.
Old Mac
???, United States
Aug 12, 2005 12:00 AM
42
Prakash writes:

>>While you have every right to show your admiration for Congress and your hate for BJP, remember the minor detail about the riots against the Sikhs having taken place 20+ years ago.

You are wrong in assuming that I am a Congress supporter. As a merciless critic of the Indian political culture and its broader culture, do you think Congress Party will escape my criticism of the principal architect and actor in that rotten political culture? I hate it less than I hate your Cow Party.

There are infintely more interesting topics for inspiration as far as wet dreams are concerned. I am merely analyzing the political situation from my point of view.

You may be right about the relative importance on the individuals mentioned. However, the public doesn't always know or remember the details. It operates on very broad impressions. The impression of a self-correcting political party with a forward looking agenda will always beat a backward looking Cow Party chewing on 20 year old cud. Besides, the Cow Party doesn't exactly have moral standing to be throwing bricks at anyone does it given its pooh-poohing of what happened just a couple of years ago in Gujarat, no?
Old Mac
???, United States
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
41
>>"...the total absence of similar militancy in other parts of the globe"

Varun, while Sri lanka and Northern Ireland come to mind, your point is well taken. In any case, the cry of "Why me?!" is both appropriate (fairness) and inappropriate (self-pity).
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
40

Ghulam, to take one or two examples, look at how Punjab in the 80's was covered or Kashmir from the nineties. The foreign correspondents, human rights organizations and some governments have been critical about how India has handled these matters i.e the usual crticisms of human rights violations. What *none* of them do is point to any similar situation faced by their own countries, or any other country, and declare that here is the way to deal with a serious terrorist insurgency. It is all negative, mealy mouthed, hypocritical. and in many cases either purely political or just plain horrendously ignorant.Does the horrible militancy in Punjab and Kashmir make any sense at all, particularly in the light of the total absence of similar militancy in other parts of the globe( or history), such as Tibet, Quebec, Goa under the Portuguese, Bahais in Iran, Hindus in Taliban ruled Afghanistan, the people of Burma against their ruling junta?
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
39
Nothing wrong in being upbeat and positive about India, is there? As long as you are not blind to the country's faults and inadequacies. The mealy mouthed, self flagellating, hyper-critical stuff spewing out of the mouths of Praful Bidwai, Arundhati Roy, Teesta Setalvad et al is utterly detestable. It has no sould or heart. India is, or should be, a country that oozes heart and soul, because it has been through one heck of a journey, a 5000 year journey with horrible tragedies and setbacks on the road.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
38
>> "This ossification/hardening of caste categories may be a much later development,related to the defensiveness of Indian society faced with massive upheaval created by foreign invasions."

Varun, both denial and projection may be at work here. While I enjoy reading your posts, your conclusions are usually predictable. They are based on a singular premise, "We Indians can do no wrong".
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
37
Arun, in 5000 years of Indian history, India did not remain fixed and unchanged. It had periods in which it was prosperous and stable, others when it was less so. All the literature of the time and the eye-witness testimonials of Greek, Chinese and West Asian visitors to ancient India speak of the general level of well-being. Poverty, starvation, disparity were not the first things mentioned by these individuals; in fact quite the opposite conditions! This ossification/hardening of caste categories may be a much later development,related to the defensiveness of Indian society faced with massive upheaval created by foreign invasions.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
36
Prakash from Australia writes ..."Flog "karma" to death, I say. If you want, you can interpret karma in a positive light, one where you control your destiny/future by your present day actions, where you reap positive rewards for good action and vice versa.

While we certainly dont need the feudal setup of our past, we also dont need to see our entire history as dark and live with low self esteem."

Fair enough. All the emperical evidence day-in day-out one sees and one does on the Indian streets points to a serious problem of India as a very "unjust" culture and that too in a very covert insidious sort of way, almost unchanging for as we proudly claim 5000+ years civilizational existence (I don't mean others around the world are or aren't "unjust". It is just that as someone living in India, I care about it and not eveywhere else. I need to be part of solving our issues, others can take care of themselves, I am sure).

At the individual level Karma might have the positive light you allude to but I do wonder as a collective society/culture is this where the problem began. Everything in my opinion has good and bad as two sides of the coin .... question is how do we make sure the coin never falls on the "bad" side.

Hindus as the dominant culture have to look hard at themselves and not just keep asking "others" to look at themselves. Looking at self hard in the mirror with a vision for the future is not about low self esteem. The fear of low self esteem shouldn't also result in bloated self esteem (which I happen to believe is problem we do face in India Today). Though I am sure some amount of swinging of the pendulum between low self esteem and bloated self esteem will happen for a people in transition and still unsure of the "shared values" that define us. It is more about who we want to be in the future, then look back and take help from the past BUT some giving up the past of some long cherished beliefs will have to happen. My sense is we hark too much on the past glories and more because of a missing future vision. I still recall my mother's comments when she visited me while I was in US ... after a few days of watching the TV, she said most of the American programs are about the "future" and most of the Indian programs are about the "past" ... both in their own ways extreme ends of the spectrum missing the present. A very astute commentary, I thought, on the fundamental difference of two societies in different timeframes (centuries) dealing with a "multi-everything" peopulation. Neither is really "right", but I must say as an Indian, I would like a little more of the future (may be the Americans would want the past too once they have built up enough of it :-) but I will leave it to their genius).
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
35
ADI from XXXXX USA writes ... " Mrs.Maheshwari drools: .....". Wonder how Arun Maheshwari got referenced as "Mrs" .... or given ADI's final analysis "So much for your theory - you lack basic intelligence - come back and post when you grow up.". I wonder if "Mrs" and "lack of basic intelligence" and "grow up" are all related .... showing the real as well as regressive nature of his/her/it (note my attempt at not taking any chance) thoughts and words. As I read his/her/it response my thoughts kept thinking is "ADI" written with all CAPS a name or Acronym. I put my vote on the acronym, say "Anally Defective Injun" :-) (smiley, smiley ...), trying to hide his/her/it identity just like with "XXXXX USA". Assuming, USA is true and I am happy with "barking is worse then their bite" type Indians moving to USA. One way we would move relatively up the "civilizational" chain is bring others down .... the slow covert revenge of the natives, so to speak. I am sure in the process we loose a few gems too but hey that's the price of progress. My mind did tell me to not post this reply .... given the nature of "vomitting" that happens on web debates but my heart said - why not - give words to your basest of thoughts, go with your feelings as they say in the US and have fun, especially with an acronym like ADI. Let the "vomitting" begin and I am just trying to "grow up" anyways.
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
34
>> Because politically, it contrasts vividly and favorably with the other party where murderous politicians are celebrated and whose supporters fall all over each other to kiss their asses after their culpability becomes public.

While you have every right to show your admiration for Congress and your hate for BJP, remember the minor detail about the riots against the Sikhs having taken place 20+ years ago. In addition, (1) remember that BJP has its own share of such "favourable" actions - bangaru laxman and sukh ram vs. you know what happened to Rajiv Gandhi in the bofors case (I can hear you saying that he has been exonerated, but only by the judiciary that you so despise) (2) there is no comparison between Modi/Advani and Tytler in their relative importance within their parties. Tytler could be a sacrifical lamb but I wouldnt expect the Congress to do anything similar to its senior figures, if they ever get into such mess.

Be a congress supporter by all means, but dont expect others to share your wet dreams.
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
33
Shusravas writes:

>>So this exercise is not for justice's sake but for the sake of votes it seems. Your blatant lack of morals is ably represented by your Italian master. As to how simply kicking murderous politicians out of the party counts as holding them accoutable for murders is beyond the imagination of us simple mortals.

Listen up ass munch. Before you blow a gasket, if there is adequate evidence, nothing I said prevents his prosecution. You may recall there was an unsuccessful prosecution, admitedly by the seriously dysfunctional Indian legal system, of another Congressman on this issue with evidence that was more fresh and contemporaneous.

>>As to how simply kicking murderous politicians out of the party counts as holding them accoutable for murders is beyond the imagination of us simple mortals.

Because politically, it contrasts vividly and favorably with the other party where murderous politicians are celebrated and whose supporters fall all over each other to kiss their asses after their culpability becomes public.
Old Mac
???, United States
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
32
Mr.Old Crack has been puffing on his crack-pipe again - " Publically kick them out of the party ...so Congress's response will be etched in the voter's consciousness" - So this exercise is not for justice's sake but for the sake of votes it seems. Your blatant lack of morals is ably represented by your Italian master.
As to how simply kicking murderous politicians out of the party counts as holding them accoutable for murders is beyond the imagination of us simple mortals.
Mr.Old Crack, wipe the drool of your mug and try thniking for a second. Whether the Congress is capable of "kicking out" politicians "who have demonstrably suspicious connections..." is a question you should ask your retarded illiterate Italian master and your deficient sense of reason.
Sushravas
New York, United States
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
31

http://www.outlookindia.../pti_news.asp?id=316159


Perhaps this is the beginning of a moral regeneration of the Congress Party and the rest of the political culture? One can always hope.

Politically, this is what Congress should do. Use the Nanavati Commission Report as a basis to launch an "internal investigation." Have that investigation "discover" more culprits who have demonstrably suspicious connections to the 1984 sikh riots or someone who was "uncooperative" in the investigation. Publically kick them out of the party at the rate of about 1 a month for the next 8 to 12 months so Congress's response will be etched in the voter's consciousness. In fact, it shouldn't use an outside investigator for "credibility" purposes because it "maitains control" of the investigation and doesn't forgo the argument that the party has the integrity to police itself properly.

This not only turns the screws on BJP further adding to their woes but more importantly Congress can credibly position itself as a party with a moral conscience. It knows the difference between right and wrong. Wrong doers, even in their own party, will be held accountable for their wrongs even after 20 years. Therefore, it should be trusted with power to safeguard every Indian.

All else being equal, that will pretty much sew up the next election no matter what the economic growth rate is. That is because the party will have drawn a sharp thematic moral distinction that is understandable and easy to communicate. It might win enough seats outright to discipline its more rambunctious junior coalition partners and implement meaningful policies. Then it will add the feather of productivity to its morality hat. Congress will become a political juggernaut sending BJP to the political wilderness of 2 seats in the parliament.

Alas, I doubt it has the sufficient political imagination to undertake such a course of action.
Old Mac
???, United States
Aug 11, 2005 12:00 AM
30
Ajit writes:

>>I am actually quite surprised at this piece and the reactions to it......Still rubbing my eyes in disbelief that it was in Outlook.

That is because your predisposition to believe the worst about your opponents tends to make you blind to the facts.
Old Mac
???, United States
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
29
I am actually quite surprised at this piece and the reactions to it. First surprise, that Outlook condemned Congress unambiguously and second that Outlook even carried the full text of the strongest report on this bloody carnage yet in full. Who Are The Guilty makes for edifying reading and it is a shame indeed that other readers have not bothered to read it or comment on it. This is the report that shook the conscience of the nation then, way back in 1984 and while Congress has always tried to suppress it, I sure am heartened that someone at Outlook thought it important enough to dig it out of the archives. It is clear from even a cursory reading of all the coverage in various media that the Nanavati commission does not even come close in directly and unambiguously maing Congress names. Still rubbing my eyes in disbelief that it was in Outlook.
Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
28
What a shameless person Manmohan Singh is!Tytler decides to resign and gives his resignation letter to Sonia!And the mother of all renunciations accepts that.Tytler says he gave the letter to her as she is his leader.In the process, the authority of the PM's office has come down.Yet the shameless manmohan with no backbone has swallowed the insult and acts as if nothing has happened.He is the modern day Barua.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
27
I thought the Prime Minister's statement in the Lok Sabha was good. Spoken like a leader and a statesman. I hope the actions that were promised will be carried out. Our taking these kind of statements with some degree of skepticism may be understandable, but unabashed cynicism is not helpful.


http://tinyurl.com/9xzsr
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
26
Now since congress by appointing Manmohan cannot be held guilty for 1984 sikh massacre and BJP by appointing Mr. Abdul Kalam cannot be held responsible for Godhra riots any suggestion how Lalu can escape being blamed for the fodder scam.

yours sincerely
PA to lalu
Deep
delhi, India
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
25
Jagdish Tytler represents only one side of the coin. Let us not forget the fellow who graces the other side, a 'Sant' Bhindranwale, who sponsored the killing of a lot of innocent people.
dcindia
Omaha, United States
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
24
>> For its part, the Congress has expiated its guilt by elevating a Sikh to the high office of Prime Minister of India

You've got to hand it to Harish Khare for defining himself with this one statement.
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
23
Well, I can't understand why people are being so indignant and angered about the whole issue. I mean, this was expected, wasn't it?

This report went into a cold storage of 6 months before an excuse of an ATR was tabled on the very last day.

Ofcourse, the minions of the Saint played their usual loyal roles. No terms like "stinging indictment", "slap in the face for the govt" etc etc.

At best it was a gentle rap on the knuckles, at worst it was "the party had compensated" like an emminent journo wrote in The Hindu (some one already quoted it):

"Above all, a society ought to move beyond the politics of memory. Justice Nanavati has failed civil society. Rather than firmly close the book, he has given enough ammunition to those who want to keep the pot boiling. For its part, the Congress has expiated its guilt by elevating a Sikh to the high office of Prime Minister of India."

That is, as Shakespeare would say, the unkindest cut of all.
Srinivas
Delhi, India
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
22
Arun Maheshwari writes >> The reason is that I think Hindu culture, the dominant one for us as a nation, has pretty much codified acceptance of "injustice" by perpertrators as well as by those on whom it is perpertrated based on karma's of past life.

Flog "karma" to death, I say. If you want, you can interpret karma in a positive light, one where you control your destiny/future by your present day actions, where you reap positive rewards for good action and vice versa.

While we certainly dont need the feudal setup of our past, we also dont need to see our entire history as dark and live with low self esteem.

regards
prakash
Sydney, Australia
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
21
Ms.Vinay: "PS: My initial does not stand for "Stephen". "
Is your name then perhaps Mrs.Maheshwari?
As for the "Hindoo" chants, I actually happen to chant prayers to some dead guy nailed to a pice of wood.
Adi
XXXXX, USA
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
20
Mr.Old Crack croaks: "That way the Shrine wouldn't have been desecrated by non-Sikhs "
Since when is a Hindu entering the Golden Temple "desecration"?
Adi
XXXXX, USA
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
19
Repost - corrected


Varun S writes:

>>After the Indian government took action(rightfully!) against Sikh terrorists in the Golden Temple, many Sikhs displayed a primordial hatred toward India.

Indian Sikhs serve disproportionately in the military and we should thank them for it; even though they are stereotyped as buffons in the popular culture.

Indira Gandhi played with fire and got burned. She promoted the thug in her politics with Akali Dal. But, she was right to go ahead with Operation BlueStar. But she paid with her life for her mistake in its execution. She could have had Sikh volunteer soliders (they had incentive to not let their holy place become a terrorist camp) to go into the temple and cleaned it out. That way the Shrine wouldn't have been desecrated by non-Sikhs (not radicalizing even normal Sikhs) and the terrorists would have been killed.
Old Mac
???, United States
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
18
Varun S writes:

>>After the Indian government took action(rightfully!) against Sikh terrorists in the Golden Temple, many Sikhs displayed a primordial hatred toward India.

Indian Sikhs serve disproportionately in the military and we should thank them for it; even though they are stereotyped as buffons in the popular culture.

Indira Gandhi played with fire and got burned. She promoted the thug in her politics with Akali Dal. She was right to go ahead with Operation BlueStar. But she paid her life for the mistake of how she went about doing it. She could have asked for Sikh soliders to go into the temple and cleaned out the place. That way the Shrine wouldn't have been desecrated by non-Sikhs (not radicalizing even normal people) and the terrorists would have been killed.
Old Mac
???, United States
Aug 10, 2005 12:00 AM
17
Folks, the only solution left for the sane Indians is to Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

So, our Outlook’s shameless professional sycophant, Vinod Mehtaji wants to keep Nanavati’s Pandora’s box shut tight, hoping that Gujarat would yet again help extricate his criminal Congress gang out of its own deep shit.
Just watch how these pathetic and rather defensive auditor-in-chief of the Outlook and his pseudo secular Congress party are both indulging in the shameless, blatant third rate degrading behavior, while trying to wash their bloodied hands clean after initiating the premeditated massacre of the innocent Sikhs.
In this article the Outlook is trying its best to pluck out last bit of remaining Gujarati fluff from the Congress gang’s smelly navel, while a huge King Kongress Snake in the grass, which has swallowed Nanavati report is trying its best to hide in the deep crevices of its pseudo secular master’s navel.

Mr. Mehta, how can you teach sobriety or cleanliness, if you yourself are drunk or foul like Congress party?
Raj
Toronto, Canada
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
16
The Congress strategy of dealing with the Nanavati commission is becoming clear.Blame BJP for Gujarat!The initial responses clearly point out in this direction.So tomorrow we can expect Shivraj Patil to ask Vajpayee" What did you do in Gujarat"? Thats going to be their answer for the commissions charges.And bingo!Our commies will say they are satisfied with the congress's response as they want ot keep the BJP out.

And after the tamasha, we will hear lectures from them on how BJP is responsible for Gujarat.

Only one thing is wrong with the whole strategy.Calling other person an idiot will not make you intelligent.It will make you look worse.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
15
Varun, all I was suggesting was that what one may see as a legitimate response, another may pooh-pooh as a "root-cause theory". But, as you pointed out, such reasoning has its limitations.
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
14
I'm looking at it from the perspective of India as a democratic, open system where people have a right to complain and air gievances peacefully.This is not a India-as-racist-colonial-foreign-oppressor that must be fought. The totally unjustified, reprehensible terrorist acts by Sikhs and Moslems obviously drove some people off the wall. It was all a local reaction to localised violence. Indians/Hindus were not setting off bombs in foreign countries to make a point. Are you suggesting that the 'root cause' is the same? The Indian government and Hindus in general did not start the violence, but a few of them did take matters into their own hands.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
13
>> "Silence is golden on the whole issue of Congress complicity in the deaths of Sikhs. The hypocrisy of a few Congress people in vociferously condemning Gujarat and Modi, is another issue. In both cases people went nuts because they were fed up with terror that had no justification."

Is this what is called "the root cause" theory?
Ghulam Y Faruki
New York, United States
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
12
PS: My initial does not stand for "Stephen".
S. Vinay
Coimbatore, India
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
11
Adi, cut your testosterone pills into 4 little pieces and take just ONE every morning.

Also, try some ancient Hindooooooo chants to attain Eternal Bliss instead of barking yourself hoarse at imaginary playmates.
S. Vinay
Coimbatore, India
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
10
Sorry, but must respectfully disagree with Adi on this one. After the Indian government took action(rightfully!) against Sikh terrorists in the Golden Temple, many Sikhs displayed a primordial hatred toward India, the Indian government and toward Hindus of any political persuasion. A hatred that had to seen, and heard, to be believed. It led to stepped up savage terrorist attacks in India itself, and a huge terrorist incident from Canadian soil, the bombing of the Air India jet. The assassination of Indira Gandhi by her own Sikh security guards was a grave act of treachery, that just drove a lot of people nuts. What happened was horrible, but people were both bewildered and disgusted at the behaviour of quite a few Sikhs, a people who were( and are?) the most prosperous group per capita of anyone in India at the time. Silence is golden on the whole issue of Congress complicity in the deaths of Sikhs. The hypocrisy of a few Congress people in vociferously condemning Gujarat and Modi, is another issue. In both cases people went nuts because they were fed up with terror that had no justification.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
9
Mrs.Maheshwari drools: "The reason is that I think Hindu culture, the dominant one for us as a nation, has pretty much codified acceptance of "injustice" by perpertrators as well as by those on whom it is perpertrated based on karma's of past life. "

-- Huh!! --

By the same measure Pakistan and Afghanistan of the Taleban have had Islam as the "Dominant Culture" so dear to you Commie as**s - certainly lands of egalitarianism, justice and peace!!

Now Shri Lanka has "Buddhism" as the "Dominant Culture" - certainly they love their minorities and it is the land of peace.

Europe had "Christianity" as the "Dominant Culture" for centuries and they certainly did not massacre millions native Americans, enslave the entire African continent and cause the deaths of countless Indians and convert millions into their slaves!!

So much for your theory - you lack basic intelligence - come back and post when you grow up.
Adi
XXXXX, USA
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
8
Mr.Nationalist whines: "Sikh should note that they are the part of the hindus and should not play with the national integrity of our motherland. The assassination Indira Gandhi costed india too much. India lost a capable leadership and faced political uncertainity. "

First of all, whether Sikhs are Hindus or not depends on who you are asking.

Second and a very important point - you are making very generalized statements about Sikhs - there is a distinction between the average Sikh and the seperatist Khalistani - do not forget.

Indira Gandhi is no Goddess, neither is she your mother. This blind belief that someohow only the "Gandhi" family can save India is sickening. Nehru and his illiterate family have ruined India in every which way they can from the day we gained our independance.

The only prime ministers that helped make progress are the non-Nehru/Gandhi family ones - Narasimha Rao and A.B.Vajpayee
Adi
XXXXX, USA
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
7
Another item in the long list of "injustices" that make up India. I am a big believer in improving economy as a the primary path to removal of poverty. Poverty as the greatest injustice of all in India and hence removal of poverty as the path towards removal of many many problems we have as a nation/society/culture. Good news is we seem to be by and large on this track ... we could do better and hope we will. However, whether an improving economy and reducing poverty will help us be a more "just" people and nation, where people (the so called aam addmi) can depend on the law makers, law enforcement, arbitrators of justice and even the support of "other" people, for some timely modicum of justice, I am not so sure. The reason is that I think Hindu culture, the dominant one for us as a nation, has pretty much codified acceptance of "injustice" by perpertrators as well as by those on whom it is perpertrated based on karma's of past life. Historical attempts have all met with limited success or failure within India - be it Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Gandhism. The only change now is we are in a constitutional democractic setup versus a feudal setup in the past. However, as I said I am not sure this change will happen and not very hopeful either BUT hope to be proven wrong for the sake of my children. Just like so many Hindutuva proponents wants Muslims to take Islamic Jehadi terrorism by the horn and reform .... I hope they take Hindu cultures relationship with many ills facing us by the horn and reform too. But so far this debate, if the web is any indication of the larger society, is about proving who is superior and who is inferior and it's all about the PAST not about the present and no vision of the future. And because it is about the PAST, it is regressive and retrogarde as opposed to liberal and about the future.
Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
6
A mild condemnation at best by outlook. I think with this web edition outlook hopes to escape publishing the same in its magazine. Unlike the Unofficial non tabled bannerjee report which was given front page coverage by all media including Outlook, for the Official tabled Nanavati report they cleverly include congress's rebuttal in the form of the ATR thereby diluting the impact of the report.
But however the cake with the icing goes to Mr. harsh khere or something from the apology of a newspaper called The Hindu. In the lead editorial our dear writer talks about forgiving & forgeting. He thinks we should forget the 1984 riots becaused Saint Sonia appointed puppet singh as the PM. He finds fault with nanavati for publishing the report and reviving the ghosts of 1984 thus giving fodder in his own words to 'the shouting brigade' also known as BJP.

PS. Dear Mr. Mehta - Can we expect Ms. Saba to give us her pearls of wisdom on the Nanavati report in her next coloumn or is she still busy analyzing the various oohs and aahs of BJP.
Deep
delhi, India
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
5
I condemn killings of innocent sikhs but at the same time such type of unfortunate events are difficult to control. The integrity on our motherland is bigger than the lives of sikhs or muslims or secular hindus. I still remember those days when most of the sikhs were backing for khalistani demand. They were getting support of America and Britain in making of Khalistan. It was our beloved leader Mrs Indira Gandhi who foiled the dirty gameplan of the sikhs and conducted operation blue star. Sikh should note that they are the part of the hindus and should not play with the national integrity of our motherland. The assassination Indira Gandhi costed india too much. India lost a capable leadership and faced political uncertainity. The regional parties became powerful and once again our national unity is getting weakened day-by-day. Various national political parties are depending on anti-national regional parties for their survival. DMK was demanded separation of TN and ShivSena is demanding Mumbai Aamachee, Sikhs are demanding Punjab and Kashmir,Assam,W Bengal, UP and Bihar becoming muslims dominated and are going to be islamic nation shortly. Babbar Khalsa is raising again its head in Punjab. Rich sikh communities may again bite india. After blue star operation sikh army revolted against india. India should not allow non-hindu in the army otherwise same thing will happen as Saddam's army. We support the congress leadership on this critical national issue. Our mother india is bigger than anything on this planet. Nanavati's report should be thrown into dustbin. -vande mataram (Bharat Maataa Ki Jai)/||\
Nationalist
Chennai, India
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
4
if congress has any sense , it will fire tytler immedeately. i hope they do something about it in next week.
nits
nashville, USA
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
3
This is a reminder to all that the Anti-Hindu Congress Goondas will victimize innocents and gloat about it. In the name of "Secularism", they have proved that not even the Sikh minority is safe from the ambitions of the corrupt "Gandhi" family. The patriotic Sikhs should realize that Zail Singh was a puppet and so is Manmohan Singh today. These people have sold their integrity and morals at the feet of their Italian Goddess and will not hesitate to stoop to justifying their crimes. Pleasu rid us of this Congress horror. Vote with your conscience next time.
Adi
XXXXX, USA
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
2
And what was the need to include the comments on Gujarat?It is nothing but the standard marxists trick to smear on opponents when you know you have lost the case."Ok I am guilty but so are you!".

Why dont you write a separate piece on that?Why is that when criticising Congress or the left, it is mandatory to add a few punch lines on the Sangh?
Ganesan
Nj, USA
Aug 09, 2005 12:00 AM
1
Interestingly Outlook shies away from commenting its views and instead summarises the report.What in Outlook's opinion must be done now?Should not those butchers resign?

BTW, the exoneration of Rajiv gandhi was amazing.The commission says Rajiv Gandhi had showed much concern about what was happening in Delhi.But then we have his famous statement wherein he said if a banyan tree falls, there will be repurcussions(not the exact wording but the meaning is the same). Does it show "concern"?And why madame Sonia not come out and say what Rajiv's feelings were?Who would have known that better?
Ganesan
Nj, USA
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