Perspective
'Holy' Cow And 'Unholy' Dalit
The bovine becomes divine, the cow becomes 'mother', the untouchables get dehumanised. .
There are some protagonists of Hinduism who say that Hinduism is a very adaptable religion, that it can adjust itself to everything and absorb anything. I do not think many people would regard such a capacity in a religion as a virtue to be proud of, just as no one would think highly of a child because it has developed the capacity to eat dung, and digest it. But that is another matter. It is quite true that Hinduism can adjust itself... can absorb many things. The beef-eating Hinduism (or strictly speaking Brahminism which is the proper name of Hinduism in its earlier stage) absorbed the non-violence theory of Buddhism and became a religion of vegetarianism. But there is one thing which Hinduism has never been able to do – namely to adjust itself to absorb the Untouchables or to remove the bar of Untouchability.

– BR Ambedkar

The dalits account for 165 million of India's one billion-plus human population. The population of cows is pegged at 206 million. There are more cows than dalits in India. The cows, therefore, have more rights than dalits. For instance, you can kill dalits before thousands of witnesses and get away with it. But the imagined murder of a cow will not be suffered. The state promotes the drinking of cow urine and dung, while dalits are forced to eat the shit and piss of caste Hindus.

Ambedkar was, perhaps, ironically, aware of the literalness of his metaphor. Hindus have proved that they can not only eat dung and piss but digest it too. However, while he was right about what brahminic Hinduism could not ever absorb, what he perhaps did not reckon with was that latter-day dalits would be forced to eat the shit and piss of caste Hindus.

In Untouchables or The Children of India's Ghetto, published posthumously like many of his other works, Ambedkar devotes two sections to highlight the practice of untouchability in his time through newspaper sources from the 1920s and 1930s. Close to 50 reports, culled from a variety of sources, from The Times of India to Hindi publications such as Jivan, Milap and Pratap, are cited in an effort to convince the reader that various forms of untouchability were indeed in practice.

 However, not one of these mentions that the dalit-untouchables were forced to consume human excreta. Not one talks about dalits being lynched by a Hindu mob for skinning a cow.

Brahminic Hinduism has always yoked together practices that are at such odds with each other that the meaning of one is to be found in the meaninglessness of the other. While it is the brahmin who ritualistically excludes himself from the rest of the caste heap and indulgently renders himself untouchable, it is the dalit – whose touch of labour informs perhaps everything that is consumed and used by society – who is condemned to be untouchable.

The brahmin, to protect his untouchableness, has to render others untouchable. Such a play of contradictions that binds the brahminical social order is as historical as it is contemporary. In such a binary, the ridiculous and the unimaginable jostle with each other; the claim to superiority and merit of the one depends on the making inferior of the other. The ridiculous easily invites sarcasm, even critique by rational-scientific voices that unwittingly participate in the ridiculous, but the unimaginable defies words, language – it demands outrage but forces aphasia.

Demonstrative of this dichotomy, we see in New Delhi, India's human resource development minister, Murli Manohar Joshi, proudly asserting the legitimacy invested upon the use of cow's urine for therapeutic purposes by the United States patent authorities, while in Thinniam, an obscure village in Lalgudi taluq, Tiruchirapalli district, Tamil Nadu, two dalits are forced to eat dried human shit.

The state and the brahminical social order play equally proactive roles in both cases – promoting cow urine drinking among caste Hindus, and in forcing human shit and piss down dalit throats. The bizarre patenting of cow-urine therapy elicited three kinds of reactions: sniggers from the 'secularists' who were amused, at best; a sense of pride from a mostly-Hindutvaised brahmin-dominated media fraternity, among whom there could be several members who practice cow-urine therapy; and sheer indifference. How-ever, Thinniam went unnoticed, uncommented upon.

On 21 May this year, a caste-Hindu thevar family in Thinniam branded two dalits, Murugesan and Ramasamy, with hot iron rods and forced them to feed dried human excreta to each other. After local activists of the Dalit Panthers Movement heard about the incident on 30 May, they informed a human rights activist-lawyer and sometime in mid-June a press conference was organised where the dalits presented their testimonies. The mainstream media in India, which has almost no dalit members, ignored it.

About a month and a half later, the media splashed the news that the United States Patent and Trade Office had granted Patent No 6410059 to an "Indian innovation which has proved that cow's urine can make antibiotics, anti-fungal agents and also anti-cancer drugs more effective" (The Hindu 4 July 2002). The product, cow-urine distillate (CUD), was the result of a joint enterprise by the centrally funded Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad's Go-Vigyan Anusandhan Kendra (cow science research centre) in Nagpur.

Seems Murli Manohar Joshi, union minister for science and technology as well, notorious for introducing 'vedic astrology' and reviving Sanskrit courses in universities, had asked the Centre for Science and Industrial Research in 1999 to investigate the chemical properties of cow's urine. According to The Indian Express (4 July 2002), 10 lakh rupees were spent over three years by the Central Institute of Medicinal and Aromatic Plants at Lucknow to establish that "certain compounds in cow urine, when used in combination with certain antibiotics like the commonly used anti-tuberculosis drug rifampicin, can help kill more bacteria than a single application of the antibiotic".

In Tamil Nadu, the Thinniam incident did not make any impression on the government, media, civil society or the mainstream intelligentsia. Most newspapers and television channels did not report it and those that did, like The Hindu, ran shy of seeming scatological and referred to it as simply "a heinous incident".

This neglect led to another Thinniam. On 7 September, Sankan, a dalit, was drinking tea with a friend at a shop in Goundampatti, Nilakottai taluq, Dindigul district when he was attacked by six caste Hindus. He was verbally abused and beaten up, after which an off-duty constable urinated in his mouth. Sankan had earned the wrath of the caste Hindu gounder community because he had aggressively pursued his right to a piece of land of which he had been cheated.

Today in the village, even the dalits appear angry with Sankan because the caste Hindus are threatening the entire community with social boycott. Peace in a village can be maintained as long as the dalits accept oppression and learn to digest urine.

The profanity of the sacred
Before 'discovering' the medicinal values of cow-urine and dung, the brahmins, during the vedic and immediate post-vedic period, ate the meat of all kinds of animals (see Indian Food by KT Achaya, 1998). As evident from brahminic texts such as the Satpathatha Brahmana and the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, beef was in fact a favourite food in vedic times.

Following the powerful discourse of spiritual democracy that Buddhism unleashed, brahmins were forced to give up beef and their cults of animal sacrifice. As the dalit-bahujan writer, Kancha Ilaiah, points out in God as Political Philosopher, "Though the use of animal power had been discovered, the killing of animals in the yajnas prevented their practical implementation". With the coming to power of the Buddhist king Asoka in the third century BCE, whose edicts proscribed the killing of animals for sacrifice (however, not necessarily for food), the brahmins not only gave up beef but slowly turned vegetarian and remained so in a post-Buddhist society; in a reversal, those who continued to, and were forced to, consume beef, specifically the meat of the dead cow – not in a grand sacrificial manner, but as ordinary food – were labelled untouchables. They became the 'broken people', literally "dalit", falling outside the pale of the fourfold varna system to which all caste Hindus belong.

According to this theory of the origin of untouchability that Ambedkar formulates, the broken people were the pre-untouchables of the 'primitive society'. To paraphrase him: During the frequent wars between the 'settled tribesmen' and the 'nomadic tribes', those who were separated from their communities came to constitute the 'broken men'; these were then captured and used by the agriculture-bound settled community to protect the villages from the invading nomads. Though there was no ritual untouchability imposed on the broken people, they were to live segregated from the main village. It was a time where there was no taboo on cow's meat and it was consumed by all.

After the brahmins made the cow a sacred animal and made beef-eating a sacrilege, the broken people continued to consume beef. The broken people were not to own any wealth, land or cattle. They could not kill a cow for its meat because they did not own any. But why were they allowed to eat beef when the brahmins and non-brahmins had given it up? Because eating the dead cow's meat was not a crime; killing a cow was. They could also not imitate the savarnas in giving up beef-eating, because they "could not afford it. The flesh of the dead cow was their principal sustenance. Without it they would starve. In the second place, carrying the dead cow had become an obligation though originally it was a privilege. As they could not escape carrying the dead cow they did not mind using the flesh as food in the manner in which they were doing previously". (Ambedkar, Untouchables: Who They Were and Why They Became Untouchables, Volume 7 of Writings and Speeches, 1990)

Having given up the most edible and nutritious part of the cow, and forcing the outcastes to consume the same, the brahminic caste Hindus began sacralising the cow, specifically the humped zebu breed found in the Subcontinent, which finds mention in the Rig veda and is common on Indus Valley Civilisation seals. The black buffalo was not endowed with any such sanctity in spite of its more nutritive milk. They also sacralised and consumed every product and by-product of the cow – milk, ghee, curd, dung and urine – substitutions for the real thing, beef. They mixed these five ingredients to make panchgavya, assigned it therapeutic value, and ascribed a place for it in the purity-pollution binary.

Hence the Manusmriti, a post-Buddhist text dated around the second century CE, ordains that "a twice-born man so deluded that he has drunk liquor should drink boiling-hot cow's urine, water, milk, clarified butter, or liquid cow dung until he dies"(chapter 11, verses 91-92). Another verse decrees: to make up for the crime of "stealing raw or uncooked food, a carriage, a bed, the cleansing is swallowing the five cow-products" (Chapter 11, verse 166, from the translation by Wendy Doniger, Penguin, 1991).

Several Hindu temples, such as the one at Tirupati in Andhra Pradesh, serve panchgavya and cow's urine as prasadam (divine offering) for a price. Cow's urine has since remained 'sacred' and Murli Manohar Joshi, while announcing the patent achievement, recalled with pride the contemporaneity of it: "When I was young and went to Chennai on an educational tour, I saw people drinking cow's urine straight from the source. Everybody thought it was dirty. Today, I realise that all traditional practices from ancient Indian medicine have a strong scientific base" (The Indian Express, 4 July 2002).

And today, that a patent on cow-urine therapy is being bestowed by the largest consumer of beef in the world does not bother the rightwing Hindu fundamentalist Sangh Parivar or Joshi.

The brahmins and brahminic Hindus (dwijas – twice born) have been consuming cow's urine and other waste for centuries and continue to do so. The bovine becomes divine – Kamadhenu, gau-maata (the cow as the mother) – but the dalit-untouchables are rendered subhuman.

Ambedkar says, "In Manu, there is also a provision for getting rid of defilement by transmission – namely by touching the cow or looking at the sun after sipping water". Meaning, a dwija, defiled by the sight or touch of a dalit-untouchable, has simply to touch a cow to be cleansed. The pollution caused by touching the wrong human being can be nullified by touching the right animal. Hindus believe that some 330 million gods and goddesses reside in the bowels of the cow. Yet, when a cow dies, caste Hindus would stay away. Touching the dead cow and burying it are jobs assigned to the dalit-untouchables.

And yet, today we witness in India an episode that against this backdrop defies explanation. In Dulina, Jhajjar district, Haryana, two hours from the capital, New Delhi, five dalits were lynched by a mob on 15 October. The dalits were reportedly sighted skinning a cow, but the local Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) rumour mill, in collusion with the police, spread the word that the dalits had slaughtered the cow (The Indian Express 17-18 October).

Within three hours, a mob – of four to five thousand according to the police – gathered near the police station where the dalits were sheltered, pulled them out, burnt two of the them alive and lynched the other three with stones and sharp implements. At least 50 police personnel, three sub-divisional magistrates, the deputy superintendent of police of Jhajjar and Bahadurgarh and the block development officer watched the carnage. It was the last day of the Dussehra festivities, and the Sangh Parivar of which the VHP is a member – which has been working overtime to raise the consciousness of Hindus on issues bovine – found it easy to mobilise villagers from the surrounding areas to "avenge the killing of the cow-killers".

A post-mortem report of the cow was ordered by the superintendent of police, Mohammad Akil, and a case filed against the dead dalits under the Cow Slaughter Act 1960. It was reasoned by the SP that if the post-mortem proved that the cow was alive before the dalits skinned it, "it will show how the mob got emotional when they saw an act like this". The priest of the local temple, Mahendra Parmanand, was quoted as saying: "If they can kill our mother then what if we kill our brothers who kill her". The cow, Kamadhenu, is the mother being referred to. And we need to console ourselves: at least in death a brahmin priest was referring to the dalits as brothers. The VHP justified the killings saying, "According to Hindu shastras a cow's life is very important".

Here is a country where the imagined murder of a cow can cause more outrage than the death of a human being. Again, the root of such attitudes lies in ancient brahminic injunctions. After the brahmins gave up beef-eating, cow-slaughter was made a punishable crime and equated with the killing of the brahmin, the ultimate crime. According to the scholar of Hinduism, DR Bhandarkar:

We have got the incontrovertible evidence of inscriptions to show that early in the 5th century AD killing a cow was looked upon as an offence of the deepest turpitude, turpitude as deep as that involved in murdering a Brahman. We have thus a copperplate inscription dated 465 AD and referring itself to the reign of Skandagupta of the Imperial Gupta dynasty. It registers a grant and ends with a verse saying: 'Whosoever will transgress this grant that has been assigned (shall become as guilty as) the slayer of a cow, the slayer of a spiritual preceptor (or) the slayer of a Brahman'… A still earlier record [412 AD] placing go-hatya [cow-slaughter] on the same footing as brahma-hatya [brahmin-killing] is that of Chandragupta II, grandfather of Skandagupta… (Some Aspects of Ancient Indian Culture 1940, quoted in Ambedkar 1948).

Commenting on Bhandarkar, Ambedkar notes: "The law made by the Gupta emperors was intended to prevent those who killed cows. It did not apply to the Broken Men. For they did not kill the cow. They ate only the dead cow". Ambedkar, probably, did not reckon with how the law against cow killing could become an excuse to lynch dalits. He also perhaps did not know that one day cow-urine therapy would make its way to the US patent office, that India would have a law that prohibits cow-slaughter (Cow Slaughter Act 1960), and dalits would be lynched for dealing with the hide of a dead cow, or that dalits would be forced to eat shit and piss. What is unfolding against the dalits in India is something that even the Gupta period, 'the golden age of Hinduism', would not have witnessed or justified.

The Thinniam 'rebellion'
In Thinniam, what was Murugesan and Ramasamy's crime? They beat the thappu – a traditional leather drum used by dalits – and went about the village announcing that Rajalakshmi Subramani and her husband Subramani had cheated their friend Karuppiah of 2000 rupees. About two and a half years ago, Karuppiah had paid 5000 rupees to Rajalakshmi who was then the president of the village panchayat (citizens council) – though her husband Subramani, a former schoolteacher, was the de facto president – for a house under a government scheme for his sister. Karuppiah's sister was never allowed to occupy the house, and despite repeated requests, neither was the house allotted nor the money refunded. Eventually, Subramani returned 3000 rupees but Karuppiah insisted on the whole sum. When Subramani refused to pay up, Karuppiah decided to tell everyone in the village how he had been cheated.

Murugesan and Ramasamy accompanied Karuppiah as he went around the village with his thappu. Inebriated, and thus made bold, they declared that they would no longer render their traditional caste-based service as vettiyans (a dalit sub-community involved in burial ground work) to the caste Hindus if they did not get the money back from Subramani. In the villagers' words, "They got drunk and made some noises they would otherwise not make".

Learning of this, Subramani summoned Karuppiah the next morning on 20 May. The entire family beat up Karuppiah, who then quietly returned home and left the village the same night. He rarely spends time in Thinniam these days.

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Daily Mail
COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Nov 11, 2002 12:00 AM
33
I have nothing against Mr. Anand's opinions, from what I can gather of them. If he is raving against atrocities perpetrated on Dalits, more power to him. But I would imagine that a magazine of your stature would at least ensure that you publish writers who are able to form a coherent argument and take various threads of thought to a logical conclusion. Why this immature rave, full of half-baked theories and that indignant air of wannabe activism?
Constant Reader
Chennai, India
Nov 09, 2002 12:00 AM
32
Kumar,
I also don't like Shiv Sena that much but Dalit millitancy was not taking people anywhere and then Congress started Shiv Sena and killed the leftist movemnts and then Sena turned against Cong after few years. The leftists were also extremists but people had genuine concerns they were loosing their jobs and these major parties were supporting only the builders and industrialists. People live on industries and left also shouldn't go to extremes but the problems of poor people should also be taken into consideration. Overpopulated cities are like toilets for the poor people who live there. Congress has become an elitist party it has to change itself.
, India
Nov 09, 2002 12:00 AM
31
KUMAR,
I agree with you that there is need for non-brahmin priests etc. What you are not able to unederstand is it is not just three donors. Orgnizations like AID, Asha, CRY etc based in the US are run by students and people who have upper caste backgrounds but they want to help. Hard work of many people goes behind the screen for collection of funds and there are many other charities. People who have worked for Anandwan have spent their lives helping these poor. What you do when you hate a brahmin or an upper caste is you are discouraging those who really want to help.
There are many charities that are run by students. I understand people who have genuine grivances and it is we all have to work towards it instead of hating each other.
Amit
Mumbai, India
Nov 09, 2002 12:00 AM
30
Thnks to all the people to who responded to my questions. But the real answer which I was expecting were not addressed, some people were saying they have not seen such kind of board. Ok for your recall when soniya Gandhi went to one temple in Anthra on her visit the issues was seriously taken and board was kept on her way entrance , so that they can indicate that she parcy and non hindu and she can’t enter. So the guys who haven’t seen that please try get the attention if possible remove the board. If it is really not there then your place in on the growth path. But it is there in lot of path. For my question next why only brhamins are there in gurukal post. Nobody want to answer for that because many was in out blood feel that we are not pure and we need broker to talk to god.
Guys 5000 prople killed 5 dalits , I am not talking about one or two person. 5000 this not just 7% it big nu,ber in community. They did it in the openday before 50 plolice person and comiisioner, not in some remote place it is near our capital in hariyana. Do you see the pain. I am not blaming the one system I am blaming the community it self because the leader of religion says cow is holeyer than human life. The brutality is not over in one day it continues even two days before dalits were hit in the open public and dragged for skinning the dead cow. Nobody is condemning the act there are lot of people who want to justify. Sankara chariyar is leader of madam who will not accept any other cast other than bramin to enter the madam. Ask the question to you. Are we slave to sankarachariyar. AtLast the peroson who gave the link, I am happy to see one Indian(hindu, bramin) involving in social service, but did u see the The Associates link in that web sites. If u haven go and click u will fine of 21 donars only 3 are inidan and there is no religious funds or goverenment funds in that. For Indias development more than Indian foreigners are helping, note they are not Indian and they are not hindus. Please don’t claimi our self we are beautiful and great and othe false things. But the fact is as a nation religiously,humanway , politically and socially we are a failure. Some on may justify this but that will not help. Accept the truth and try to change. The attitude has start first accept all religion. Go to all types of religious system. If possible through away the god , god is the most horrible invention of human being. Don’t give important to the gurukal they are not special, they are also same human being like us. Nithing special if a person born as bramin., salp the false leader in the fase. If palthakre is accused help the government to arrest him. Respect other people. Start love other people and other cast. Say heman life is more holiyer than the cow.Never identify your self with your religion or cast or state or language. If you are going to do that u will be one among the people responsible for Indias death. SAVE
INDIA
kumar
, US
Nov 08, 2002 12:00 AM
29
Anand is insuinating the whole community for the actions of a few. It is lies, exaggeration and bullshit to accuse Hindus for the VHP inspired killings of Dalits. VHP has support of < 7 % Hindus and most Hindus would never indulge in that kind of voilence even if a cow was being skinned alive. Outlook should follow what they preach and not publish impolite and obonoxius opinions and article like this one. I assume editors in outlook read such shit and piss before they paste the shit in their magazine
Ramesh
Mumbai, India
Nov 08, 2002 12:00 AM
28
KUMAR,
This is the kind of temple you are looking for. I think there is no temple in India that matches thsi. You can visit and even help.
http://www.fearlessminds.org/
Amit
Mumbai, India
Nov 08, 2002 12:00 AM
27
Kumar,
Most temples inMaharashtra allow people of all castes to eneter. It just depends on which region you belong to. Lot has changed in India. Many brahmins and other upper castes have helped reforms in Hinduism. I think Tamil Nadu Hinduism needs radical reforms.
Dalit
, India
Nov 08, 2002 12:00 AM
26
Kumar,
ome palces near Bombay had non-brahmin priests. But that doesn't matter to me. See the movements like these Ganesh Festivals or the bhakti movements(you can read about this) or Dahi Handi(we have in bombay ) where people of all castes participate and enjoy are more fun. Then we have Holi and other festivals they are fun. This is true Hinduism. That priest's job in a temple sucks. Most of my brahmin friends also don't like it. In fact most people are ashamed to do priest's jobs these days, besides that doesn't pay well unless you get a position at Tirupati or something. Most of the Brahmins from other parts of India like Maharashtra and Bengal and Punjabi don't get priest's jobs in temples of south because they are more impure brahmins and these days the brahmins from these parts eat meet and drink so situation is even worse. To me god is something very personal. Sprituality and meditation is good but I just do yoga for that. You get lots of books for that. People should start their own yoga centers. they have those in India. I don't know why they don't allow prayers in Tamil. In Maharashtra they have prayers in Sanskrit as well as Marathi. In fact most of the Bhakti writing was in Marathi of the old times.
I think Feng Shui pays more than priesthood. People are reading chinese books and making hell lot of money these days.

HH
I am sure you are a good human being and I understand your anger. But what you write all the time is not right. You have to start loving people. You are not aware of the situations in India so your opinions are not valid for the diversity and complicated situations of India.
What I hate is opression more than the opressor. Hate the sin not the sinner, that's what Gandhi baba used to say. The opressors in India are illiterate and not even worthy of hatred. They need good education.
Dalit
, India
Nov 08, 2002 12:00 AM
25
Many prople says hindu religon as it is good and it need some reforms. Many prople don’t see the reall problem and they don’t want address it even when it happened near therir place. I am asking few question for reforms in Hindu religion?
1) Have u not seen the board “Leprosy People and Lowcast People and Non Hindu should not enter the temple”? If u have seen it what u have done for that? Why temples are afraid of sick people,dalits and non hindu. Why thay are not allowing them to enter in to temple. If u want people to follow hindu religion u need to see hindu god. As hindu what u have done for that.
2) 99% of temple priest are bramins and they don’t want any other to go near the god. Except bramin all other people are siners who can’t go near god. Have u ever asked the qestion.
3) In temple the “Governens” (the person responsible for donation and property) have u ever find any backward class person(I am not talking about dalit) (ie less than upercast) taken the post.
4) U will find scripts of Hindu religion is in Sancrist, it is not in local language. Majority(more than 90%) don’t ubderstand the manthiram , have u ever asked whay it can’t be in local language.
5) In TN when some temple tried to have manthiram in Tamil do u know the amout of protest received from religious leaders. What u did for that.
6) In sankara chariyars madam, is any one otherthan bramin can go to the post of sankara chariyar.
7) When same question was asked to him he said “madam will decided the qualification not all have the virue”. The leader say virtue that means by birth a person gets importance. What u have done for that.
8) At last are u finding your self as a religon we are faliere, by not able to protect people and bring equality.

If anyone knows the answer or doing something for the above question reply for this. Don’t justify or reason out. Because that will not make us from failere to success

Kumar


kumar
, US
Nov 08, 2002 12:00 AM
24
You can never make me hate you or any Brahmin or even Hindus. (Even after apologizing to P in public for indecent comment on him)

There is one thing for sure, I am not griping about some killings millions of year’s back, and I am not blaming the Hindus for the extinction of Dinosaurs.

Dalits Died recently not even one year back or not even one month back at the hands of the Thugs who happened to Hindus in India (of course I cannot blame Americans or British for this as they are no where and even a Moslem terrorists as they are not the perpetuators of this crime as a little boy who can suck his thumb can say that it was VHP who killed them but again I am not in the process of judging, even communists didn’t kill the Dalits).

You and me and the authors of the other articles are not talking about yesteryears or even last years oppression of innocent, I am not talking even last month atrocities we are talking about current killings. Stay on the point whatever you curveballs and googlies you deliver are no good for you or for the Dalits of India.

Please don’t make me use derogatory terms towards you as I told you that I don’t have anything against you or your kind but the killers and the killer supporter who happened to be Hindus (a coincidence) We blame all Moslems and Islam for the action of few Islamic terrorists (We blame islam for Jihadi behavior and I am blaming Hinduism for the Dalit Killing and untouchable behanior f Hindus and Hinduism). I’ve nothing against the Brahmin or any kinds who not only condemn the gruesome killings but also support equality.

If you wanna argue, lets do it in decent way (I am not the one who brings past 5000 years oppression or white oppression on our forefathers or Moslems oppression on our forefathers or even killings of other nature in other countries). In one of the articles I told everyone that let us even forget the Dalit oppressions till the end of this year but I want some action from new year of 2003.

My point is that if Hinduism is criticized peoples blood is boiling (so much for the tolerant religion, it is OK to Jambalaya the Islam and other religions). Meanwhile my children are killed (DALITS) mercilessly and I am told to shut up or leave the country, Let me tell you this is not India to make me shut up, Of course the editor could kill file my messages but because he is paying for it. And finally if you don’t like it or get migraine please leave the forum I am not putting gun to your head for you to stay on this forum. Am I?


Dear Editor sorry for this last long response as I’ve to do it to calm the angry critics. People like this are digressing the point and diluting the case by adding unnecessary things in the equation. What difference does it make if your name is HH or BS? just look at the points being made and be reasonable.


Note:
The Editor and the cops (If they want to) know the IP number of the message poster/handler and if you have any fear of that this is not the place for. Also, i don't pay money to write these articles on Dalits. Just a frustrated by stander at the deaths of innocent in the name of Hinduism by Hindus.
H H
,
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
23
A Request from the Executive Editor

Multiple Postings

There have been a whole lot of complaints, and we can see why.

We could easily make all the readers desirous of posting messages registered as users and then restrict postings as well as false IDs but we hope our readers will appreciate this privilege of interaction.

We strongly urge limiting messages in response to one particular story to at the most two in a day.

We would request that you kindly space out your posts so that people might actually reflect on the points you would be able to make rather than feel inundated with a large number of mails which engender hostility from others and the whole purpose of communication is defeated.

Frankly, the shorter and politer the message, more the chances that it would be read and absorbed. To be effective, and to reach across, please try to be as succinct, and polite, as possible.
www.outlookindia.com
New Delhi, India
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
22
HH,
No one took crap for centuries. Every individual lives his own life. No one should fight over past history because history is not your own life. If that had been true Jews would never forgive Christianity. Your terrorist like rants are so annoying. Those snipers in US killed Indian Christian because they were psychopaths and when you see from a longer distance every one looks like an enemy. After september 11th an Indian Chrsitian was attacked, sikhs were attacked, Hindus were attacked, Muslims were atatcked just because they looked like people of middle eastern descent. So hate doesn't respect individuality of a human being. Its a good thing that the US administration brought the guilty to book. Same thing happened in India when some backward caste idiot attacked a missonary in Orissa. Most Hindus condemned the incidence. The criminal was brought to book. He is in jail. Indians don't hate all Americans because some Indians were killed in backlash of sept 11th. So why do you hate all Hindus just because one idiot killed a missonary? Does that mean lives of millions of Hindus are equivalent to one missonary( with all due respects to the deceased)? Your hate propoganda is good enough to terrorise innocent people. Hinduism also has some good qualities which you may not like to appreciate because you are completely ignorant and intolerant.
Dalit
, India
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
21
HH,

Your post only proves one thing: You keep hoisting yourself by your own petard. You are clearly incapable of reasoned thinking, only hatred. You clearly don't understand what others are saying so you respond with a barrage of nonsense and set-pieces and words. I feel sorry for Dalits that one like you chooses to speak for them. Just as there are idiot Hindus you are the idiot par excellence amongst the Dalits. Congratulations. I never said totalitarianism would work in India, in fact I said the opposite and I desire the opposite. Please READ, take time, let your brain assimilate and digest what you've read and try to form logical responses to what I've said, not to what you think I've said. Don't answer in such haste, that's the problem. Take as long as you like. I fear for Dalitstan if imbeciles like you have any power in it. Fortunately I've heard other more intelligent Dalit voices. Bye Ho Hum (HH). From now on when I see your posts I'll try to control myself and not answer. I'll just say " Bah Humbug, Ho Hum is at it again." That's all you really deserve. Pip, Pip, cheerio, have a nice day and all that.:)
What does HH stand for anyways? A rose by any other name would still smell the same.
,
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
20
Make me you worm.
Mikey Boy Oh no Tom Boy

Let the Dudette speak her mind.
H H
,
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
19
You moron you don't understand, In india totalitarianism will never work period.

India is millions of nations by itself, each caste is a nation by istelf unless the Supreme court intelligent upper caste hindus become the rulers like the military in Pakistan then india could become a totalitarian Hindu Taliban State.

Other wise you dream of that freaking Hindu Taliban state dear Vulture Dude.


Look at the BJP, Kalayanji Singhji is out (got a boot from a Brahmin, can't be a brahmin licker for long if you are not a slave). Look at Tandon's saga in UP. Idiot you don't understand Indians as they don't give F to other castes or when other castes tell them what to do. Look at K. Mishras ambitions just in UP. Look at BSP's struggle with the Yadav. Dude wake up.

Right now the supreme court is the legislative body but don't be surprised if that becomes the ruling body soon. Then Dudes like you will also be behind bars. Remember 1975-77.

Idiots like you keep changing the clothes and identities in millions of posts you actually forget who the F you are. I don't blame your migraine, suits you well.

Mr. Anand: Dalits are voting group and they should have more rights than the filthy cows who sit in a street corner and use up the unholy space(street).

All cows who sit outside on the street should either be shot dead otherwise a Brahmin Or RSS memebers should be shot dead if those cows are outside on the street. Some idiot should take responsibilty.

If the Cow pollutes the streets the Vulture Hindu Party (VHP) members should be shot dead (as they are killing us Dalits for skinning dead cows). First give the Vulture Hindu boys (the Plow Boys) a chance to pick it up and clean the street with water otherwise shot dead (jail term will waste the money on useless people).

Anand, keep up the good work, and rise to occassion.
H H
,
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
18
HH,
Your rants are just unbearable even for me. GO somewher else and bark.
Dalit
, India
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
17
HH,

And by the way HH, Dude is such a lame childish word! I didn't realize people still used it in that context. It's as bad as impacted, proactive, so-and-so out of New York instead of from New York, trending upwards or downwards and all the other monstrosities afflicting the English language today and those whose thought processes are muddled. It's such an ugly word. For someone who is going to make English the language of Dalitstan you display a poor command of it.
Ho Hum (so tired of HH)
,
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
16
HH,

Please translate your chaotic, illogical rantings into English so I can understand. Again, apparently, you feel killing peoples of other races is better or not as bad as killing one of your own race (and it seems to escape your notice and intelligence that German Jews are just as German as Hitler (who in fact was probably less German than the Jews he was killing because he had an Austrian parent).) You also previously said Pakistani Sunnis and Shias are of different races and Irish Catholics and Protestants are of different races. Please educate yourself before you make such silly remarks. Please look up the meaning of race. But if you feel at least "wise" Hitler killed Jews and united Germans because they were of a different "race" and that makes him better than right-wing Hindus killing fellow Hindus, please tell that to the Jews. I'm sure they'll find a lot of comfort in your so-called logic. And aren't you the one who said Dalits and Brahmins were of different races because their genes were as different as zameen and aasman? So you're saying Dalits and Brahmins are of different races, so when a Hindu kills a Dalit, according to your own standards, that's one race killing another and therefore not as bad as killing someone of your own race. By your own statements then, the Hindus must be doing something right in killing off people of a different race to unite Hindus, just as Hitler did. (And just to make this clear to your pea-sized brain, this is by your logic, not mine. In my mind, any killing or discrimination of anyone based on religion etc. is WRONG). You say Indians are different in one post and in another post you say they're all the same -- which is it? My, your logic is so convoluted. You don't even remember what you say from post to post. As for your argument that India is multi-religious moreso because people have converted and not because of Hinduism's inherent tolerance - well I won't even begin to try to counter your stupidity. India is democratic because those who fought for independence (led mostly by Hindus by the way. Also Muslims played a big role in fighting for independence. Why is it that some Muslims wanted a Pakistan and others wanted to stay within a greater India? If Hinduism is so absolutely evil surely they'd all be in Pakistan right now? Christian Anglo-Indians and other apologists for colonialism would rather we still be living under British rule, you too no doubt. You'd rather lick the boots of a white man than of a Hindu, fair enough!!) took it,, it wasn't just granted to them. Those who won independence for India could just have easily adopted a military totalitarian state, not a so-called secular democracy. To say India is a democracy because of the wishes of only its minorities is sheer ignorance, something you've displayed with breathtaking dexterity. God, I get an awful headache whenever I read your posts. Takes so long to figure out what you're trying to say -- problem is I don't think you know what you're saying. You're just a poor soul filled with hatred but unable to logically and rationally explain your hatred.
Ho Hum (HH)
,
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
15
Dear Anand: Thank you for your work, I don't know your caste and creed but want to see more articles on Dalit issues (i wish Dalit people will become more writers and journalists other than Marathas who are into it). Dalit awareness will be well created by Dalits and not by Brahmins.

Brahmins always complain about someone creating hatred, they are very fearful of others using their name as they are worried that the Brahmins will be butchered like Jews, they don't realize that the people who took crap for centuries will not act like that. Look at the women who have been oppressed for centuries (you don't see an oppressive women or women killers at large of course other than Jansi Laxmi who was a killer).

Please keep up the good work and let us dig to the bottom of it, let us once and for all decide what should be done for Dalits. Let Dalit people decide what they want instead of being told by others like RSS and other religious fanatics what they should do. Right now Dalits kill each other in the name of RSS and VHP. When a Dalit killed Gujurati Moslem he was killing a Dalit in Moslem religion. When a Shudra like Dara Singh kills Christians he is killing his fellow Shudras the Dalits.

Dalits need to wise up and focus their anger on not fellow Dalits but other people who made them Dalits in the first place.

Dear Nameless:
Christians in India are not a different breed or race they are Indians and i think they pay taxes to the Indian Kings or Indian Govt. You are saying like the Kings of India did a major favor to Indian populations even though they are different relgious persons.

The people RSS is killing and has as enemies are fellow Indians unlike the wise man Hitler, the jews were different race compared to the Germans that is why he had them killed (could not compete against their wealth and wisdom but Hitler has numbers so he did what he did)

Like me, If i am dumb guy or gal is it OK to kill an Intelligent indian brahmin? NO.

Like Gore, if he lost to Bush can he kill the Bushman with the rage? NO.

But atleast Hitler killed different race people and united the Germans, while RSS kills fellow Indians and divides the Indian Nation again.

India is not Multi-Religious not because kind hindus but because intelligent Hindus converted to other religions of the world and still want to live like Indians. Don't give me crap that the Hindus are letting them live. Oh Plz.


Dude, These are Indians brave enough to quit hinduism and follow other religions in their own country.

India is not Democratic because the poor Hindus want it like that but because of the other Indians (who were Hindus) want it like that. If it wasn't for them India whould have been conqured by RSS long time ago and we would have a Hindu Taliban ruling India and then the British would have interfered and freed the other Indians from the Hindu Taliban.

If it is not for the other Minority indians india would have been a Shanky state (shankarcharya). Imagine the West being Popelaya(pope town)? Thank god Vatican is just 10 miles radius. If Hindus want their own country for Shanky let him/her buy a land and build it instead of looting the treasury of India.
H H
,
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
14
THIS ARTICLE IS JUST PURE NONSENSE,WRITTEN MAYBE BY A MENTALLY CHALLENGED MAN.A MAGAZINE OF OUTLOOK'S REPUTE SHOULD NOT POST SUCH RUBBISH ON ITS SITE.
INDIAN
mumbai, india
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
13
Dalit.
You're right. Hinduism could learn from Christianity and other religions, especially when it comes to the caste system (but inequalities also exist in other faiths, but nevermind, NO excuse for caste system today). But Christianity, Islam and other religions could also learn a lot from Hinduism, especially when it comes to realizing there are many paths to God and tolerating so many of them for so many thousands of years. But we generally don't see the level of acceptance of Hinduism amongst Indian Christians and Muslims that we see and have seen amongst Indian Hindus for other faiths. They tolerate and at the same time resent the historical Hindu majority, dreaming of a "Christian India by 2300" or a return to the glory days of the Mughal India (or part of India). Despite the Togadias, Thackerays, India's Hindus remain overwhelmingly a tolerant people. The reason India is as multi-religious as it is today, and why it has been multi-religious for hundreds and thousands of years, compared to the historically monotheistic West, is because of Hinduism's fluidity and legendary tolerance (also influenced by Buddhism) even of those who seek to eliminate it and convert its followers to some supposed "one true god." In the past Indian kings generously gave money to Christians, Muslims and Jews (especially in South India) to build their houses of worship, even as some of these same people repaid the royal generosity by making it their mission to convert as many Hindus as possible. How many Christian and Muslim kings in the past do you think would have given money to Hindus to build temples in their midst and allowed Hindus to convert their followers? Would Popes have allowed it? I think not. Why does India have one of the oldest Jewish communities outside the Middle East? Why do Jews say that India is the only place in which they were not discriminated against? When the Parsees were fleeing Muslim persecution in Persia (Iran), where did they find a home where they could continue being Parsees and not have to convert to the local religion? India. Had they fled West hundreds of years ago, they would have by now been assimilated into or converted to Christianity or Islam. Today the West accepts many faiths but this is only a recent phenomenon, due to immigration of non-Christians, not conquest and proselytization of non-Christians. You don't see Hindus/Buddhists putting up signs that read "Go 1 Million" (meaning Hindus or Buddhists have a goal of converting a million Christians by a certain date) along America's highways. Yet Christian evangelists see nothing wrong with putting up signs like this in India. The Holocaust was a mere 60 years ago. Apartheid even more recent. At a time when Catholics were torturing Jews and others in the Spanish Inquisition, crucifying Brahmins and other Hindus in Goa, forcibly converting them and destroying temples over which they built churches, Hindu kings were showing this generosity to Christians, Muslims and Jews in South India. Let's not forget the Crusades -- you'd think the idea of there being only one God would have died out after this barbaric bloodbath. This tolerance is being tested these days, I agree, with certain Hindus displaying the same vile, barbaric, intolerant, rigid behaviour historically exhibited by the Semitic faiths. But I believe it will weather these problems and challenges and retain its incredible rational, scientific, tolerant, all-encompassing roots that go way beyond what other faiths tolerate and accept. Because these qualities have always been inherent in Hinduism -- no beginning and no end. Hindus today must tackle the evils within Hinduism, can even learn from others, but it's a two way street. Other religions too, especially in India, should show the same courtesy and respect towards Hinduism they expect Hindus to show to them.
,
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
12
Ah! What do we have here? A Dalit apologist (who has been fairly well brainwashed by the RSS) and a Hindu chauvanist, who still has not changed, or learnt a thing!

Stop closing your eyes to the ills in your society. All dalits should convert to Christianity, or Islam (I don't mind). Their ills will be over!
A Concerned Friend
,
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
11
Bharat, you should read about good aspects of christianity as well. There are many good things in Christianity that Hindus can learn.
Dalit
, India
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
10
I am sorry for using abusive language on this forum. When I read Bharat Kumar's post I realized that I was angry and I was using abusive language. Mr. Bharat Kumar you should also control your racist rhetoric.
Dalit
, India
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
9
Christianity has played a great role in reforming hinduism. But Hinduism needs sweeping reforms still. The reforms have to come from Hindus else India won't change. I don't think breaking the contacts with Hindu is going to solve any problems.
Dalit
, India
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
8
He is either gone mad or need pshychiatric treatment. I do hate some of the Brahmins. Let's make it most of the Brahmins But Hinduism is not about Brahmins. It is for the whole world. Casteism as such is not bad it is the discrimination that is bad. Christian White used to feed Shits to Black christian. White christian used to make black christian work in the feild for free. They don't even go to the same churches even if there is nothing holy about the churches. As churches are just place for discussing religion that's why they can wear shoe or sandle to these places. These Bastard colorless melanin deficient bastard made so many uncivilized atrocities on blacks that dalit condition doesn't seem bad in India. As in India, they have reservation in JObs and that too approved by dalits brothers. Yes, there are people who are evil and they do atrocities on our dalit brother but they are to be punished. There are many upper caste people daughter get raped on the way and police don't do anything. People usually keep quite for the fear of "BADNAMI". They don;t even tell their own relatives. You peace of shit, it is law and order that is the problem with the Fuck country called India. In this country, Hindus are treated like outcaste by people like you who have infilterated every corner of media and have been brain washed by commis and congress and ofcourse media. Don't blame Hindus for such atrocities on dalit. We Hindu feel for them but power was in the hand of Killer Congress who ruled India for almost 50 yrs and dalit voted for them all these years. They kept them poor and exploited them by diverting attention from their misdeed to Hindu bashing. If dalit have not realized this yet then time has come to shake hands with Hindutva group and convert to Brahmin and Kick this fuck Brahmins and Congress once for all. But don;t hate Cow. They never did anything wrong. Rather she provide milk to people who are not so preveleged.
May Krishna bless you and bring peace in your heart.
bharat kumar
Bhubaneswar, INDIA
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
7
This is paranoid bullshit. Or should I say SHIT. This can only be a figment of extreme imagination for someone to insinuate that Brahminism is the guiding hand behind all caste related violence against dalits in India. This ranks right up there with Outlook's Arundhati Roy crap that is published with sickening regularity.
Ranganatha H.
,
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
6
There should be actors, actresses, models, sport stars, painters, writers who come from dalit backgrounds. Dalit writers shouldn't just write about opression but about other aspects of life. Humor, satire, love everything is needed in Dalit writing. Its a way of making money. At the same time we could attract people's attention to the problems of other dalits. We want to sell good art, literarature our products to others. We have to work with other people someday so why not now? We should ask the government for such rights.
Dalit
, India
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
5
It is not just the cow, there are many other reasons for Dalit Sufferings. It is usually they are forced to work without pay. If they don't agree to the whims and fanices of the upper castes they come under attacks. That Brahmin bogey is created by the shameless secularist powerful sudras who are as filthy and bastards as the brahmins were to them. The problem is once a caste moves upward in social standing, it starts looking down upon all others. The missonaries are also not a great help because they too want to keep castes because that is the only way they can proselytise. Worst part is even after having so many anti-brahmin movements Tamil Nadu remains a state where casteism is more atrocious. As a dalit I don't feel I should wallow in self-pity and engane myself in Brahmin bashing. I don't want to associate with those politicians who are full of hypocracy. They just worry about their own castes, personal vendettas, extremist linguistic nationalisms. I don't even hate these orthodox brahmins and middle castes and opressor sudras. I just pity them because they are so obnoxious and illiterate. They too need education. I don't mind giving them that. I think we need to start our own businesses. We need to improve our financial situation as well. I despise the people who support seperatists like the sikh millitants because these people are upper caste Jats who are equally bad to lower caste sikhs and then the Vaniyars also are against the Dalits. I hate this regional nationalism. That is an easy way for majority sudras to opress the minority sudras. These powerful middle castes are also shit suckers just like the brahmins who want to keep power in their hands but I don't care. I think there are too many poor upper, poor lower castes and poor dalits. Anti-caste movements will come from these people because they don't have a choice but to interact with each other. No more a political leader is going to run away from responsibility by creating a bogey of Brahmin or a Muslim. I don't mind supporting any political party but they have to look into real problems of dalits. That Kancha illieyah is stooge of missonaries who want to keep caste. He is also neo-brahmin scoundrel.
Dalit
, India
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
4
Anand shd ask himself what all those self-respect parties in TN did when the dalits were subjected to these atrocities? OK ADMK is a paappathee party; DMK is a shudra party; but Veeramani's DK? A party that proudly proclaims that it does not admit "paarpaniargal" or PMK another professed anti-brahmin party. So when so many self-proclaimed "defenders of the faith" have themselves remained silent what is the justification in blaming brahmins or brahminism? Even in that land of the little goddess that land of milk and honey Bihar - where the BJP's attempts to impose President's rule were frustrated by "secular parties" the ruling secular Yadavs oppress the dalits. Anand must ask himself why this mobilisation has gone awry. Why is it that dalits increasingly turn towards the RSS/VHP and BJP or Shiv Sena and not towards secular parties? As another poster tells us here - dalits in Bombay are firmly behind the SS. What is necessary is to abolish caste from the body soul and mind of our country. That will not happen by looking for whipping boys - it can come about only by mutual understanding and fraternity. Writing tendentious articles about shit and piss may pass muster with the lunatic aish-aur-aaraam post-modernist crowd that reads trash like Himal. But it will not solve the problem of caste. As for quoting Nelson Mandela Anand couldn't have done worse. Find out which tribe rules South Africa and why all other tribes now resent the high handed ANC. If that is not caste nothing is.
pennathur
,
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
3
Dalit millitancy was not taking the Dalits anywhere. As long as we segregate ourselves there will be more problems. Also the Dalits who have benefited from Mandal should make their children to go through open category thus leaving chances for poor Dalits to rise. Blaming the Brahmins for the problems in a village where a Brahmin doesn't live does not make sense. The truth is we want Brahmins to fight the powerful sudras for us or we want them to leave. But even if the Brahmins leave problems of Dalits will increase because of the powerful sudras. In Bihar if a yadav is opressing a Dalit, what can Brahmin do about it? We want the terms Brahmin, vaniyar destroyed. We want everyone to be at the same level. In fact last names should be given by the government so that caste idenitity dies.
Dalit
, India
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
2
Mr. Anand I understand your sentiments. I feel more strongly about it than you do. I don't agree with you that Brahmins are the opressors these days. Even if you make all the Brahmins leave India, the problem will not be solved. I think Tamil Nadu and Bihar and all such states didn't have the kind of Dalit movements the way Maharashtra or Bengal had. In fact Maharashtra and Bengal had all kinds of reform movements, these movements haven't cured all the problems but they were good. Eventually Dalits in Mumbai are voting for Shiv Sena because it gives them a support they need. Dalits feel that Hindutwa of Shiv Sena brand will kill casteism even though they may not like all that shiv Sena does. But the Hindutwa of Murli Manohar Joshi brand and casteism of secular(?) middle castes and powerful sudras is very dangerous. I think Dalit leaders shouldn't wait for Shankaracharya to change scriptures for them because that is not going to happen soon and even if he does that people are not going to follow those. The people who opress Dalits don't read these scriptures. They do it because their forefathers did the same. So these opressors also need education. Dalits need to have their own spirituality that doesn't have to be far from what other Hindus have but they should build their own temples. They should write their own prayers in the language they like. I have seen that converting to Buddhism did not help the Dalits in Maharashtra. Throwing vermilion or a blue detergent doesn't change the status. Dalits have to eventually become a part of mainstream. Dalit leaders should ask Indian government for changing the school curriculam. Teachers in schools should be made to go through classes that help the teachers to loose casteist biases. There should be compulsory education of social equality and there should be experiments such as making all students to work with Dalits. Students in schools and colleges should be forced to learn the problems of Dalits. They shouldn't get admission for higher education without that. In fact Police force, Judiciary all other departments should have education to respect human dignity. There should be campaign on television against casteism because as long as the castes stay outcastes will be there. Sometimes casteists hide under the disguise of secularism.
Dalit
, India
Nov 07, 2002 12:00 AM
1
While the anger is justified Anand's hatred for Brahmins in particular and Hindus in general gets the better of him. And this anger is not any grandiose expression of identity or any such thing. It is visceral hatred pure and simple. It is exactly the sort of hatred turned hysteria that Hitler whipped up against the Jews ere 50 years ago. EV Ramasamy Naicker one of Anand's idols (who was otherwise quite a lofty and profound man) once said,"The brahmins should beware; remember what happened to the Jews?"
At the moment of writing unless Anand has been out on a data collection tour and can prove it; Indians haven't started replacing chai and coffee with you know what. Even in the streets of Mylapore and West Mambalam populated by the people whom Anand despises (and would probably have driven out), no one that I know has started to consume you know what. And Jayendra Sarasvati threatened a fast unto death? Anand - please don't fabricate reports.

Ambedkar's well known paragraph with which Anand starts his 10 page piece shows his frustration at his inability to deal with Hinduism. Hindu belief being eternal or sanatana - or based on the eternal and endless order of the universe - rta - is ever evolving. Hindu belief is for the rational soul - one who can question creation and make sense of it. For it is said in the Rig Veda,

"The deities do not know the answer. He, who lives in Heaven above them all, He knows about it. Or perhaps, He knows not"

Hindus are not expected to believe that the world was created in six days 4004 years before the birth of Christ. Hindus do not believe that there is a Heaven and Hell. Hindus don't believe that the world will come to an end with a clash of trumpets. Your salvation does not depend upon accepting someone as your lord and saviour. No one is a believer or infidel or heathen. Creation is not confined to the Earth or the Solar System or even this Galaxy. There is no Eight Fold Path or Four Fold Way. Life is not eternal dukka or suffering. Desire is not the root of sorrow. You don't have to "sangham saranam gachami". Life is yours entirely make it or break it. Yes atrocities do happen and it is definitely a matter of shame and outrage. There can be no two ways about it. But as the dalits themselves cast off their norms and reject the rules that bind them - Oh Yes! FYI the arundatiyars, chakkaliyars and vettiyans of Madras are not untouchable any longer. In fact about 30% of the men who clean the streets and sewers in the city are not from untouchable castes. Does Anand know that?
pennathur
,
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